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Here comes the show. All right, so here's a crazy fact Men's testosterone levels have been declining about 1% a year Since the 1980s was a bit of a testosterone deficiency or low testosterone epidemic by the way the Signs of low testosterone in men look like this right so low libido Low confidence low motivation excess fat gain from where you might not know where it's coming from and Muscle weakness now here's something else. That's crazy It looks like a lot of women are suffering from this as well Low testosterone women and believe it or not women need testosterone as well The signs are very similar low libido load motivation low confidence muscle mass going down excess body fat that seems to be Unexplained there are things you could do naturally to raise your testosterone But there are also pharmaceutical ways you could balance out your hormones. All right. Let's talk about this here No, this is a big big big issue. Yeah, this has been an issue for for a while too And I think that it took me a while to figure that out with clients I remember And it would only happen after I'd have a client who would go back and see their doctor and get blood work And then they'd come back and they would tell me their testosterone levels But I remember having clients that you know, man, I they seem to be following everything I said on the diet they seem to be training and you know Again, we talked about this before where we were a young trainer You think they're lying to you know, like this client just gotta be lying They gotta be sneaking Snickers bars or not doing the workouts I'm telling them to or they got to be lying and because they're not there their weight isn't changing They're not losing the body fat. We seem to not be putting muscle on really I've got all my things in line that I think I'm supposed to but they're just it's they're not moving the needle And then they would finally go see a doctor and get blood work done And then I'd find out like my you know, 50 year old engineer is at like, you know Free test is like get one one something, you know, they're at the floor as far as their testosterone levels And it plays a huge role and then of course going through what I went through from using testosterone Using steroids for so many years on and off and then deciding, okay, I'm going to go off completely Let's see if I can naturally get myself up to a healthy place And I did that for almost three years shared that story on the podcast And man, it's when you go through it yourself, especially being someone who's in in the space and a fitness professional Uh boy, can I tell what a difference it is when you have low testosterone versus when it's just optimized You know, like my my hormone therapist right now, we just we're not taking a high dose at all I just keep myself to where you're taking a therapeutic dose. This isn't bodybuilding Yeah, so it's it doesn't I don't feel like crazy strong I don't feel like I'm taking a lot I just feel good and I can see a huge difference on the way my body responds when I You know turn the knobs start training consistently dial in the diet My my body composition changes relatively quick versus when it was low It seemed like I I could be perfect for weeks and see little to no change And then the slightest mishap or you know off the diet and I would put on all this body fat. Yeah, it's crazy. It's like a vital Uh indication whether or not like you're you're in balance and you're healthy Uh, and it's one of those things that I had to like rethink about testosterone because growing up in in plain sports It was so demonized. It was so, you know, look down upon in terms of like exogenous You know hormones and you know at this point Because of the change of the environment because lots of factors remember carol hoofen kind of brought this up in her book Uh, and it's just really set off alarms Like we're just in a different uh landscape now that we really need to consider You know where like go getting checked like where are my uh levels at and and what's what's the healthy ranges I should be, uh, You know considering. Yeah, testosterone was unfairly demonized, right? It was demonized because it's been used as a performance enhancing drug and just like lots of um, you know medicines or prescriptions are abused but testosterone really got demonized To the point where um, it's like bad for you. It's always bad for you The truth is there's a range of of levels of testosterone. By the way, we should get into that right? We should get into what that range means, but yeah, there is a range Going below that range is very bad for your health. I mean increases your risk of cancers dementia diabetes increases your risk of obesity Heart disease even prostate cancer, which is sensitive to testosterone when your testosterone is too low They show that aggressive testosterone excuse me prostate cancers can start to develop so It shouldn't be demonized It's also a very safe hormone to use unlike other hormones that we prescribe like insulin for example, which you got to be very careful with So it is quite interesting now as far as a low testosterone epidemic is concerned There's been lots of speculation as to why and this has been observed now for decades for decades We're just seeing these declining levels and they're like, okay, we're less active We're more more obese But even when you count for those factors and you control everything it doesn't account for How much it's gone down? And they think it has more to do with environmental factors zeno estrogens and heavy metals and phthalates and pollutions Yes, exactly. There are teenagers. This is true now. I was researching this There are teenagers now that are showing up with testosterone levels that 80 year old men are supposed to have teenage boys Isn't that what that that viral Article there were the article that went viral was about was I think they compared like Testosterone and in like 20 year old men today is at the same average level as a 60 year old man Just like 50 years ago or something like that. Yeah, and that's crazy. Yeah, and the way I feel about Testosterone is the way I feel about all medical interventions Does it improve your health and doesn't improve your quality of life? And in in that case then yes, I think it's something that could be beneficial. This is for all Medical interventions, right? And I do think it's important that you try to lead a healthy life so that your body is optimized naturally But in many cases you do that and you're still like you had experienced Adam or like clients have had in the past Still really low and so now it's a matter of quality of life And health in which case okay, it makes sense for supplemental testosterone And women if testosterone was demonized for men, it's even more so for women, right? It's like, oh my god, if you take testosterone, you're going to change your your gender You're going to grow a penis which is so funny because I remember when I was a kid My mom when she had her his direct to me that's they had to put her on testosterone So and it's it's prescribed all the time It's just much lower dose. Yeah, but the signs for women are also now This is just an anecdote, but I know someone now who's a female Who has gotten trt, right? So she's gotten hormone replacement therapy Testosterone primarily has gone through a doctor now. We're she's about eight weeks in And she's like I wish I did this 10 years ago. So I feel so much better I have way more and she was a fit healthy person So she wasn't like this isn't like a couch potato week like garbage and then decides to go on testosterone She was doing everything and she was like, man, I just couldn't understand. I thought it was because I was getting older She went on testosterone and again, they bring you within a healthy range They're not they're not the super physiological crazy doses And she's like I I would have done this before had I known how I would feel I would have done this before so this is a big deal and I think We're gonna see I predict testosterone is going to get rescheduled right now. It's scheduled Um, I think it's a schedule three drug and it's you know, it's kind of tightly regulated I think they're gonna loosen up because oh you can see how you can see how it's loosening up already I mean, it wasn't that long ago that they're the only way you get it was through your general practitioner And they didn't want to do it unless you were deathly sick from low testosterone And now you're starting to see these hrt clinics popping up All over the place. So I think the pendulum is starting to swing back that and and the conversation has changed There used to be a stigma around it that was really bad. Oh my god steroids bad You know, I think the old drug commercial it's so crazy because this is how Interesting it is right Women go on birth control all the time. No big deal. Which is these are estrogen or progesterone type hormones that they're taking men demonize stigmatized For taking testosterone, which is a by the way, it's a far safer hormone to take That's the irony of it. Isn't that interesting? Well, it just shows you the how the power of media Totally and the way that we can promote something or demonize something by the conversations that we're having or how we structure those conversations And I I want to believe that it's changing. I mean, I'm I'm really excited for I mean the first time that we brought it up on the show years ago Um, I was blown away by the amount of young men that were DMing me That said that heard heard me talk about my experience. They went and got their blood work They're 23 25 and they're like, oh my levels were 240 or my levels were 180 and like these numbers that were so low For someone that young and I just I'd never seen that in my my previous 10 years of being a personal trainer That wasn't a common thing that I heard Uh, I saw that in my 50 year old engineer and my you know advanced age clients Had hormone stuff as they naturally decline as you get older But I didn't see that in these young men I see that now today. And so I think because of that. I think you're gonna see this space grow rapidly It's so much bigger and I love I love, um, you know, I'm really excited for our audience for the things that we're putting together You know to to help and support people that are unsure or curious about it that want to learn more Um, and that we always lead with that, right? So adding value first. And so, you know, we opened up this forum A couple months ago. We don't really talk about it. It's a mp hormones forum on facebook Uh, and it's we we're gonna originally do it private for anybody that's going through the hormone therapy And as we talked more and more about it, you know what we're getting so many questions Related to this that instead of us, you know only helping out these people that are already going through the hormone therapy That have the doctor, why don't we open the forum up? Let's see if we can get dr. Rand and his team to come in and have these conversations and and live so so regenerative and sport medicine Is the clinic that that we work with and we work with them because uh, we like them the best They know their stuff the most They're also very keen on and they really pay attention to how people feel So here's the challenge with in the past with hormone replacement therapy at least testosterone The range of what's considered normal is huge, right? It's 300 Depending on the lab you go to but generally it's about 300 to 1100 So that's the range and and so if you're at 330 or 340 In the past your doctor was like well, you're within range You're okay, even if you have all the symptoms of low testosterone or Let's say you're at 400 or 500 and you have all these signs of low testosterone They'd be like, yeah, you don't need testosterone. You're somewhere in the middle What we know now is it's much more complicated than that, right? You have androgen receptor density, which makes a big difference. In fact, there was a study That compared testosterone levels in men and strength gains and they found that so long as a testosterone wasn't like too extreme There wasn't any difference in strength gain what they found the difference in strength gain was due to was the androgen receptor density So 500 testosterone, which is you know, you're lower lower testosterone than let's say 800 If you're at 500 but you have a lot of androgen receptors You're going to feel way better than someone with 800 with really low androgen receptor density So what regenerative and sport medicine does is they say, okay, here's your levels Let's look at all these other hormones as well and all these other symptoms and then how do you feel How do you feel? Do you feel okay? Are you noticing a difference? If not, then let's see if we can move this up to the point where your quality of life You know is back to where you want it to be which I think is important Now I know you've been kind of overseeing the side of the business and you have got them to come on Is it twice a month? They're going to start coming on the forum. Yeah, so I have it written up here So, okay, so we have a forum on facebook called mp hormones. It's actually mind pump hormones Excuse me mind pump hormones and it's a facebook group and we have opened it to everybody Okay, so I don't know how long we're going to keep by the way It's open and free for anybody if you get in now you're in there for life for free Don't know if we're going to keep it that way forever But nonetheless you can get in there. It's free and on uh, December 8th and December 20th at 5 p.m. Pacific Dr. Rand and dr. Todd those are both Doctors from regenerative and sport medicine are going to get on there and they're going to answer Any questions at all people have about hormones hormone replacement therapy This is for men and for women So you can get on there doesn't matter and you can ask them whatever questions you want And you'll be talking to in our opinion The best people um in the business. Yeah, I know there's just a lot of reservations out there because I don't think people really understand I mean, it's complex. It's a complex topic talking about hormones And so I'm sure there's tons of questions before you want to really make a first step to try and get You know some kind of help and therapy in that direction So, you know, that's why I think it's important to have the conversations First and this is a great place to do that dude. It's it's it's totally a quality of life thing What you're not going to do is you're not going to go And get, you know, and this is just for people who might not know Okay, bodybuilding doses the kind that are demonized or what demonized testosterone Very different from therapeutic doses. So a high a high ish therapeutic dose of testosterone would be around 200 milligrams a week. Maybe, you know, every six days or something like that. That's a high ish Replacement therapy dose bodybuilders do not take 200 milligrams of testosterone They're taking a thousand plus other anabolic steroids plus growth hormone or more So this is not the same at all. You're not you're not in that kind of bad dangerous kind of levels of hormones Where you get these things you got to walk watch out for what you're doing with with a hormone replacement clinic That's really good. Is they're just optimizing and again This is for people who are just like look in my opinion The best candidates for this are people who are already health conscious And have a history of you know being relatively fit and are just like what is going on? Why do I feel I mean For men and for women leads to depression And sometimes like why do I feel so depressed? Then they'll go on other drugs to help with depression when it's a hormone thing That they could solve through, you know supplemental testosterone again women same thing I don't want women to be afraid. It's just a much Smaller dose, but again, they keep you within that well I'm glad you said my that's my recommendation. I'm getting so many DMs And I'm so glad that you set this up for them and that's it's not just these two dates Right, is this something you got them to commit? These are the first two dates But we're gonna be doing we're gonna be doing two every month is the goal Okay, okay because I'm just getting flooded by these questions and I'm just like I'm not qualified to be Answering they're telling you or directing you the one thing that I have recommended to everybody It's the same thing that I did first before I did which is I do think that the responsible thing to do is to Kind of check the boxes yourself first naturally to make sure that you're not just masking other issues So if you have chronic stress and you have chronic bad sleep and you eat like shit You eat like shit and you just you've got a lot of things else going on with you And then you just decide oh, I'm gonna throw testosterone on that and it will help It'll make you feel a lot better, but you're just masking other issues I think it's important that you kind of assess those things first and see hey If I never get good sleep, what happens when I get good sleep for a week? Maybe you feel a lot better. I'm so glad you said that that's such a good point because testosterone is a feel good hormone No matter what so you go on testosterone Even if you live a shitty lifestyle, you're gonna notice that oh, I feel a lot better. Oh, my libido is a lot higher here's the one of the potential drawbacks of Of hormone replacement therapy and I've had this experience with clients Natural testosterone levels fluctuate based on your lifestyle. So if you're a healthy man with good testosterone, let's say you're a healthy guy Testosterone is pretty consistent 800 900. You've got good androgen receptor density and you're everything's great But then you just you know, let's say you have a baby and you're just not sleeping and you stop working out Oh, my diet's going to crap. Well, now your testosterone might dip down to 500 because everything's off, right? It's not a might. It's almost certain, right? Right, right But just I'm using a hypothetical now. Let's say you're on hormone replacement therapy No matter what you do your testosterone is going to be high so it could Mask a shitty lifestyle and this is where I've seen people like for example I had a client. He was 45 And we did the same at I'm very similar to what you said. We were training Uh, we were looking at his diet doing everything and he's like man I used to like five years ago is like I used to respond so different and I'm like as a trainer I'm trying to figure everything out Luckily, he's one of those clients that just did everything I said So it was like perfect because I could say okay. Well, it's not this. It's not that So then I said well on your next physical Let's get your hormone levels checked and see what's going on. So he did he went Got his hormone levels checked and they came back at about I think it was like 300 or it was like at the At the bottom He went on hormone replacement therapy Felt amazing and then he made this big mistake He decided oh, that means I'm gonna you know double or triple the volume of my training now because And I'm like no no no that doesn't work that way. Let's stay the course see how you feel It's not a magic pill or potion and you can over train and still make yourself feel like crap even though your hormones now are optimized So it's not magic But you'll still feel better, but it's not magic But if you do everything good and then your hormones aren't optimized and then you optimize them I mean, it's it's a huge nice icing on the cake huge improvement in quality of life Well along the lines of this drug talk, I'm just gonna keep us in the drug space where we're here Did you guys see the um Opioid deaths so deaths from things like exploded 29 percent increase over the last 12 months. That's fentanyl It's it's because of the lockdowns in the in the stressful environment. Oh, how dare you tie it to that? No Hey all Suicide all suicides exploded all suicides cross-bord kids suicides. Yeah, this isn't even like technically suicide This is just in in in general, right? Or like no, this is opioid over over. Yeah, you're right This is like everywhere like there because I know there was some there's some place I don't know if like in the midwest it was becoming like a really a big problem like the opioid Crisis there and then fentanyl was a big part of that Well, there's different places in the country that the the restrictions or the ability I guess to get a hold of it is easier or more difficult on there So I I compare the um, I know I heard florida's got a really yeah, florida florida was really loose Which it makes sense, right? You have a lot of people in advance like the oldest population is in florida They're probably the most likely the best red people will go to one doctor get a prescription go to another doctor Get a prescription, right? So and and that's been a hustle for uh quite some time The the laws over here are a lot stricter than over there And they're I'm sure it's state-to-state it varies on how much they crack down on that It's very similar what you see of marijuana marijuana in california Not a big deal if someone's gets gets a prescription walking down the street with marijuana wouldn't be a big deal You go somewhere else in the country and it's people freak out. The difference is there's never been an overdose of marijuana Well, yeah, yeah, you ain't gonna die The only way you'll die from marijuana is if you if someone drops like a thousand pounds of it on your head Otherwise, I don't think you can you could die from it, but it's all suicides have gone up um alcohol use cigarette use uh junk food all that because it's been a very stressful time Lockdowns uncertainty Fear and so it just drives this, you know self medic medication Yeah, it's it's interesting too that it's not it's not a constant conversation that we're having because I was reading I think it was the same article maybe a different one, but I was going down the kind of the rabbit hole and I didn't know that we have been on a 26 year run Of record-breaking years every year So for 26 years straight, we can for opiate overdose. Yeah It just keeps going up and going up and going up and going up and going up nothing It's it's crazy though that it doesn't get talked about as much as as like is a lot of other things get talked about Yeah, what upsets me is that when we pass policy public policies and laws We only look at one metric and we don't consider potential other downstream effects or side effects like if we say Shut everything down lock everybody down reduce infection But then we don't consider well are people gonna feel isolated. What about people on the brink? There's a lot of so a lot of suicides that jump in suicides isn't happy people who committed suicide It was people who were kind of on the line And they were a little bit like oh i'm not good and i'm kind of depressed and then this happens And it pushes them over the edge and that's what you see you see all those people over the edge That not get pushed over and then stuff like this happens Yeah, the psychological ramifications of all these things like I really wish that the policy makers would spend a little more time Thinking their way through they don't you know, you know what it reminds me of it's kind of similar But obviously different topic. I listened to you the podcast with uh, joe rogan and peter atia. Did you guys listen to this? I haven't listened to that one yet. So really good. Doug peter atia He's an exercise nutrition scientist. I think if you wouldn't mind looking up his anyway really smart guy I love hearing hearing the guy's uh, you know take on exercise and health and fitness Super smart guy, but the only critique I have Is the same critique I have for other scientists and scholars Yeah, and the fitness and health space is that when they give their advice They don't consider the context of the average person like behaviorally. Yeah, they don't right? So he's on rogan and he's talking about like the best ways to improve Longevity and this is really interesting. Doug. What is this? He's a physician. Okay, so so he basically is doing research He's science a very smart guy. Okay, so that's what I thought So when you're when you're when you're advising people on the best practices for health and fitness A scientist or a researcher tends to give you The most effective thing that research has shown they don't consider Is it appropriate or people going to do it? Is this actually going to work? It's basically just like So here's what he said, right? He said First of all, I found this very interesting Being fit Reduces your all-cause mortality by five times, which he said there's no medical intervention that even comes close In fact being fit and having a good diet. So fitness with good nutrition Will reduce your all-cause mortality more Then smoking will increase it and then to take it a step further If you just exercise and are fit and have good athletic performance That'll reduce your all-cause mortality more than diabetes will increase it So that's how powerful being fit is but then when he gets into the exercise recommendations He's like, yeah, you know like three hours a week A super intense cardiovascular training to improve your vo2 max and this and that I'm like, listen No one's going to do that a lot of these biohackers love that because it's like all about like the short window I could get cramming as much as possible. It's like easier to sell Yes, and it's just and it's also inappropriate for a lot of people I'm not going to have the average person max out on a stationary bike and sprint like crazy Because it's totally inappropriate for them. Plus, we don't know the levels of stress and is it going to contribute to that Um, so that's the one critique. I have is that he's communicating in that way Was that the I mean was that his major message was pushing high-intensity cardio Hard intensity cardio strength training and then it was like, you know Can you hang from a bar for two minutes and you know high intensity? With resistance training could studies show that that's okay. Wait a second If he's if he's advocating for three hours of cardio, where's the resistance so you add more? Oh, so you're talking five days six days a week of or oh Yeah, good luck. Yeah, I know that's that's the thing Yeah, this example I always give is like If you ask a researcher an expert who researches fitness and nutrition and you say What's the most effective form of exercise? They're going to tell you what the research says If you ask an experienced coach or trainer, they're going to ask you first Which form do you enjoy doing the most exactly because we know that's the one you're going to be Consistent it's all about behavior for longevity. Like what what you're going to adapt to and stick with Long-term versus like what what plays out well in a lab and that you can see kind of the metrics of it But you know, that's not sustainable. No, it's also quality of life. Um, you know Eating perfectly on paper Would improve your longevity for sure, right? Right amount of calories right around, you know, perfect proteins Perfect calories, like I said carbs fats nutrients all that stuff, but what if eating perfect? Uh, was a major stress on your life. What if it was dysfunctional? What if you You know, didn't have relationships with people around you didn't go to events and isolated yourself to eat perfectly Then is it Going to improve your longevity. No now it's probably there's a detriment to you know, what you're doing Yeah, I want to take us back to the apocalypse Just because i'm concerned uh with the world Uh, and especially because like, you know places like egypt, you know, these are like biblical places You're just like wow, uh, they still have plagues apparently. What yeah, what do you mean? So they just went through this there's this place called aswan I'm probably pronouncing it wrong, but there's a city in egypt that just experienced like this crazy flood and lightning and storms and Um, so meanwhile they were like trying to just focus on covid vaccines all this kind of stuff They had to shift completely because uh, this storm basically knocked out all everybody's power And as a result of that they got like these crazy like infestation of scorpions And like some snakes and it's been it's stung like 450 people three people died They don't have enough antivenom To treat you know these people and like they're telling people like steer clear of anywhere where there's these like palm trees or things Where they live and then because they're just out in numbers and droves So I imagine it's the weather and the storm is bringing them in for shelter And so they're they're trying to find shelter and they're like invading You know these poor people's houses you imagine a bunch of scorpions just come out and know her like how terrifying Well, and I imagine the ones over there look like crazy ones not like the little ones we see here and you know california And stuff there like a little tiny little tiny thing See now this is terrifying like if you told me yeah, the locusts are coming next to that. Oh, no By the way, look at some boils and you know like we know we know the story pink paint the whether they would put Above your door like yeah, we got blood on the door And like hope the angel doesn't kill me locust still swarm and do shit like that, right Five hundred people hospital. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, 500 people were hospitalized. That would terrify a lot Well, you guys have seen those videos of the locusts like when they when there's a certain time of year when they all travel From one direction. Have you ever seen those clouds of them like traveling? They look crazy. Yeah, there's like billions of them Yeah, they'll just decimate crops or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, this see this would terrify me if if there was all of a sudden like Oh my god guys, uh, there's a scorpion plague coming to San Jose like that would get me to move News I bet you wouldn't even believe it like you would even no, that's not true. That's not happening Yeah, I feel like the the whole murder hornet thing, you know had me had my cackles up a bit But nothing really kind of happened with that But if that would have been a thing where all of a sudden murder hornets are like everywhere You're walking and stinging you that'd have been a problem Yeah, it wasn't there like a Isn't there a time of year in some places in Australia where they get so infested with spiders That the trees and the plants are all Oh, yeah, I shared that I shared that picture on on here one time right We talked about that so many webs and everything that it's just it takes over like areas the ground and all the trees It's it's like a whole park is just covered in webs. Yeah. Yeah, that would be freaking out. No, thanks. I'm cool That's when you'd see me with a flamethrower Yeah, would you say because you've been on this earth longer than all of us? Um, would you would you say, uh, this is Uh, one of the weirdest times ever like when you look at our economy when you look at, you know Scorpion stinging and killing people here like just everything that's going housing prices stock market stuff going crypto nfts Like is it comparable to any other? Yeah time. Is there anything that you can go like? Well, it was kind of crazy during this time. Okay. I haven't lived that long By the way, you know 20s like was that weird Well, yeah in 29 when there's the stock market crash that was pretty traumatic No, the truth is it's it's crazy right now. I've never seen it like this I mean, I feel like we're in a really bad movie where they took all these different plots and said, hey, let's make one movie Throw it all together. We're in some we're in some video game with a like a like a like a simulation is glitching Yeah, there's like a 13 year old playing us right now. He's like i'm bored. Yeah Maybe that's what metaverse is all all really about is like it We're already in it and it's like this is how we're going to reveal it to people is make them think we create it And then one day we'll be like just kidding. You're already in it. Okay, but you know what though You're creating yourself if you're being objective if you want to be objective The truth is this is nowhere near the craziest that's been in the last 60 70 years The differences were so aware Like you had first off the cold war where there were moments where we were one button away from thermonuclear global war right and that happened quite a few times Then you had the oil embargo Where if your car ended if your license ended in an odd number you could get gas on these days If it ends in an even number you can get gas on these hours long waits In line unemployment through the roof like I feel like we feel like this is a crazier time But maybe it's just because we're more you think that I think this even now is worse than then You don't you don't think so. How do you think people respond if right now the government said Well, we're giving information a lot easier. Yeah before that I think that's probably part of it because we're just taking on too much of everybody I mean, I don't disagree with that that plays a huge role in the the panic and then how everybody feels about what's going on But I mean, I I don't know like with covet and everything like I just feel like that is How do you think people would respond today if we had a Cuban missile crisis but with china What if all of a sudden biden gets on and you know, he's like hey We've located chinese nuclear missiles. I feel like at this point everybody be like, yep. I knew this was coming too Like this makes sense The revealing of like the alien invasion that'd be my dog wasn't there an olympics that we banned we said we couldn't go to because terrorists Kidnapped a bunch of olympic athletes and was that the berlin? Maybe I'm not sure there was some type of No starts with the letter m what the Are you talking about with the soccer players? There was a lot we had people getting assassinated all over the place Like you had celebrities and political leaders getting assassinated. I don't think it's great We had civil disobedience that makes what we have now look like nothing back in the in the 70s Well, if you think back we did have two world wars in the 20th century. So that I mean that's that's pretty I mean, we're fortunate not to be doing that. That's true. And we don't have a draft I don't know anybody that like was forced to go and that and that also to your point Like imagine if we went through a world war with social media right now. How fucking weird would that be? Oh, everybody would be crying right? It would be a lot different than probably what it was like I couldn't imagine if they just said right now. Hey guys, you can't get gas On mondays wednesdays and fridays if your license ends In an odd number or I couldn't imagine what it would be like to go get gas and have to wait two hours How do you think people react right now if you had to go get gas and wait two hours in line? Yeah, well, you've already seen it like people filling things up and every time something happens where there's a supply chain thing You just see people in droves like well crazy. Didn't we just hit a record? Yeah, aren't we at an all-time average for 80s $4. You did it. Yeah All-time high, I know it's not slowing down Although I on a positive note of all this, you know drama we're talking about right now I did hear that the Supply chain issues is supposed to be loosening up and that the fear of shelves are going to be empty for Christmas And so with that is not true like you like target and some of your big places are saying that we're up You know 17 plus percent in inventory and we have more than enough to carry through the holidays Yeah, so that's the rumor is that it's not going to be as scary and as bad as what people I learned a hack by the way for Holiday shop. Oh, I saw the jason said that to you too. I think so the 30 days with cosco Yeah, so so like black friday, right? Like big sales and everything but one of the challenges is like you go to you know best buy or or cosco The computer in the tv that's super cheap if you're not there in line first. It's gone They're gonna have like 10 on the floor and they're gone. That's why people fight over them So what this lady said which I thought was brilliant is most of these stores have a price matching 30 day price matching guarantee. Yeah, so buy it before black friday spend extra money Then when it goes on sale you just tell them Hey, I want to pay the the cheaper price the refund to the balance So I saw that right and then the thing that I thought right away was like, yeah, but you know what I bet you Like if you go to gotta make it a hassle for you to come back Well, so this is how I think they would make it a hassle is let's say You know tv since that's one of the most popular ones right and you go, oh, I'm gonna do I'm gonna go buy the new Sony whatever, you know hd 80 inch for you know, five grand or whatever right now And then when the black friday sale comes I'm gonna go trade out except for That sony 10x5 model is the now the black friday sale is on the sony 11x6 model And your model is not the one that went on sale. So when you try and go do the Also, you guess the wrong one. Yeah, or the or it didn't even have the one that they sell just for black friday A lot of people hold whatever it is that they're going to launch or release or sell on. Oh, why are you gonna ruin this? Yeah, because I I mean in theory, I thought it was really cool I got the same I got the same text message. I was like, oh, that's really smart But it's like, oh, yeah, well, that's I know that these companies are smart They probably go what we'll do is we'll launch something different on the actual black friday date So then you think you're being all clever and you got yourself a hell expensive tv, don't get it They give you the ones they don't normally sell You know what though tv's are way cheap compared to what they used to be I I saw some tv's I did go to costco recently Super thin incredibly clear Do you guys remember when the first like quote-unquote flat tv's came out and they were like over 10,000 Yeah, 10 15 thousand dollars for like a little 40 15 inch. Yeah, I just bought not that long ago I bought a 40 inch little like lcd screen for my bathroom for like when I take it a bath I told you guys about that. It's a little 40 ways like a pound. It's so light. I think I paid 200 bucks. Yeah It's so crazy. That's it's way crazy 200 and it's like good quality. It's nice That's why I always have reservations about buying like electronics because it's just like you can't ever win though Yeah You wait and wait and then the new model comes out. Yeah, it's always cheaper Like the next day Did you guys see uh the news on um, uh, Crypto cryptocurrency.com or crypto.com that company that's getting pot I don't know if you guys are seeing the way they change their name to crypto.com. Is that your time? The staple center stable stable center paid 700 million dollars someone paid them What do you mean who paid 700 crypto.com paid staple center 700 million dollars to change the name to crypto.com Is it cryptocurrency or crypto.com? I have it in my notes. It says crypto Oh, that's just not right. That's someone that might be a title crypto.com. Yeah crypto.com 700 million dollars to have that and I'm seeing the commercial. I don't know if you guys my ads on my uh, youtube channel commercials when I'm watching streaming It like bitcoin cryptocurrency Did you know there's one place? I think one or two places in the world Where businesses and people prefer to use bitcoin over the currency Where El Salvador and Venezuela Where if where people prefer because the cash is the money so messed up over there. Yeah that they actually prefer that you use Bitcoin that makes sense over that when your crypto's crypto's here to stay. I just don't know which one I mean, I think I think we could safely say bitcoin is the goal. Yeah, but who's buying bitcoin It's 50 000 or 60 something 60 now. No one's buying bitcoin I mean very the rich are one. Yeah, you're buying pieces. Yeah, I mean, I don't and even then I don't know if there's a lot of people Do they I the at least in in my circle of people that I know everyone's speculating on the you know The xrp's and all the different coins. Yeah, the sheba is the like coins the yeah, because they're still playing They're still playing that game. I'm talking about just big. It's I would bet that the one that's going to stick around The one that's most likely to be used Uh as currency the one that's most likely to be liquid is bitcoin, right? That's the safest bet I think is okay. Now like let's see if I got trolled or not But somebody told me that there was like a let's go brand in uh crypto I was like, no way dude. No way. That's what I heard. I heard that Did I bring up on the podcast the the five the top five songs in the in the ideas? Oh, okay I was gonna say I this is so crazy where that's going. Yeah the whole let's go brandon thing I was like they're gonna make currency out of this too. This is this is crazy Hey, I did you guys hear that they're now engineering milk? They're gonna make milk without cows. Have you heard of this? We just saw a billboard on that milk. That's not it's called not milk. Is that what it is No, no this they're saying is milk. Oh, there's a brand called physically possible There's a brand called not milk and I saw a massive billboard on it when we were where were we just heading Oh, it's a startup company. There's a startup company that raised 13 million dollars to make dairy products Not from animals, but rather from micro organism. Well, how's it considered dairy then? So it's a televieve based startup called imaginary Imagine nice job guys. That's clever. So listen what they're gonna do instead I'm gonna read this to you instead of milking a cow to get cow's milk the scientists of the company insert DNA Instructions for the production for the production of whey and casein into micro organisms So they have chosen these two components as they are principal milk protein. So they take DNA Put it into these micro organisms the micro organisms then produce whey and casein Then they add plant-based fat sugar and water to the mix and boom You got milk Imagine imagine real milk. No cows. Imagine dairy. You know what a startup right now. That's crazy. Yeah It's a televieve based uh company. What do you taste like now because it's got the plant-based Kind of like fats and everything else. Um, it's it's obviously not the same, but it's got whey and casein Made from bacteria Yeah, how wild is that? It's wild. I know but I'm not gonna lie. I have a different advance I have a different view on On things like this now after our conversation with our buddy Zach at zbiotics. Yeah I do have a different look on it like just I I don't know enough or I didn't know enough about GMO to really it's it has such a bad name attached to it At least in the health and wellness space that there's anti everything gmo, but the When listening to him talk about where that science is going and how amazing it potentially can be it's dude You could theoretically you could program bacteria to do all kinds of crazy stuff. Yeah, so you'll program bacteria to make medicines and drugs and It's hard to fathom foods. Yeah, it's gonna be it's kind of weird I mean, how do you feel I do at least I my outlook on it is different after that conversation Okay, so here's here's what I think I First off there's there's real benefit in the fat that comes from dairy And the sugar that comes from dairy is different than maybe the ones from plants. I don't think it's going to be completely equivalent. However If getting bacteria to produce Way in casing protein becomes extremely inexpensive and makes it easy easily accessible To the world. Yeah, we could solve some serious problems Right if you're if you're in a part of the world where it's hard to come by quality protein And you're a nutrient deficient or whatever and actually having cows milking cows Costs x amount of dollars and you could say 50 percent of that by doing it with bacteria the beneficial fats and you know Asses you get all the you know protein like if you can have all that from that the production from bacteria That's pretty damn interesting. How scared are you though? If you're like a dairy farmer, that's your livelihood And it's been that way for you know multiple generations like seeing news Yeah What if the future is going to be like this like wealthy people like you're going to go to a super expensive restaurant and they're going to be like This I'll have the real milk That's how it's going to be house milk, please I do believe it's going to be like that that's what i'm saying They're going to give you a piece of steak with a picture of the cow. This actually came from a real cow This was not grown in a lab. Yeah, this was alive, you know And you like this is real I I do think it's going to get like that, dude I really I think it's going to get and for all good reasons though, right to your point like I think we're going to solve Hunger I think we're going to be able to get to a place where we can make so much food that at least people can survive off of it Right, so they're not going to die from starvation and be able to feed the world But then you're going to have this huge gap You're going to have that stuff that's extremely cheap and that you could live off of and survive Which I think will be good for a lot of people that are in poverty But then you're going to have you know, oh you want I want really Be cool to just have a cow as a pet. Yeah What are you going to do? They're just there like a real boss that You know strap or something to ride it. We used to eat these before we grew it in a lab It's gonna be kind of weird cow races. Let's go way down now. Let's go to the future and let's get crazy with this What what about when like this dna, you know into bacteria technology becomes Easily accessible Now the average, you know person with the internet access can figure out how to do this Now you can program bacteria to do all this stuff for yourself. So now rather than Give me an example. Give me an example like what we just said like Like tech theoretically if this tech gets easily accessible to people and it's easy to do people could do it themselves Oh, I have yeah, I have a vat of bacteria in the back that makes KC in way and oh, yeah, I grew some I grew some bacon in my 3d printer lab that you know Dude back to it just seems like it's like the building block, you know, it's great I still am convinced now that we are bacteria in the human suit Well, I mean we we are we're more we have more bacteria cells than anything else, right? Aren't we uh or one to one one to one or more? Oh, I thought it was more We're more like one to one. That's what Zach said. He said one. He said it's about as many bacteria Cells as human cells. Oh, see I thought we were more. I thought I read that we were we're more bacteria That's what I used to think too. Yeah, I thought it was like three to one or something That's what I used to quote. Okay, but then he said one to one so and he's the expert on it So I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna listen defer what he says. All right. So more some more cool research More studies have come out on the use of psilocybin to treat Depression and it's blowing the doors off of anything we've ever done before For treating mental disease. So this is huge. There's two companies or one in particular that is Looking to make this into pharmaceutical. I think it's compass pathways is one I'm invested in them. Yeah, so full disclosure because I think that this This could potentially completely revolutionize mental health treatments because there's nothing if you look at these current studies these new studies Nothing comes close To how these things seem to be in terms of their effectiveness. It's crazy for therapy, right? Like it's so promising with psilocybin, but also isn't there Value to mdma for like post-traumatic stress. I've seen some studies around that that are really encouraging as well Aren't they similar to psilocybin though when it comes to therapy is or is mdma are they both used for different things? So psychedelic research refers to all these drugs, right mdma psilocybin lsd What's that other one that tranquilizer? Oh, right God, what's that tranquilizer? Yeah, it's a horse tranquilizer, but you actually use it as anesthesia I can't think of the name. Maybe Doug. We just talked about on the show the other day I don't know why I can't I can't remember. It's literally on the top tip of my tongue. Anyway The studies are done on all of those those drugs and they're coming out and showing Like lots of benefits psilocybin is probably one of the preferred ones because it's so safe But I've also read studies on the other ones as well And again the results are are mind-blowing like it's like you have, you know, like treatment resistant depression You do therapy with psilocybin after a few sessions Your depression is relieved ketamine. Thank you And you don't have to see you don't have to go back for months So it's like you do this therapy and you're you're cured for a long time. Yeah, like six months or a year Yes, some of these are one session. That's what I thought the ptsd study they did was like 80 something percent like one session. I thought it was something crazy bro. Look at this. So here's a recent study, right? So the study found that patients who took a single psychedelic dose of psilocybin 25 milligrams in conjunction with therapy By the way, this is very important. They're not just taking You guys are getting high and doing whatever. No, in fact, you can go in the opposite direction You could have a bad experience and actually give yourself worse symptoms But anyway, so it's in a control environment with a really good therapist So they reported an almost immediate and significant reduction in depressive symptoms that lasted weeks Compared with patients who were given a a placebo essentially So 29 patients or 36.7 who took the 25 milligram dose showed a 50 percent or more reduction in symptoms In three weeks after the single dose and again at three months This is insane 24 who took the highest dose were still in remission three months later Can you think of any drug that treats This kind of depression that way gets those kind of numbers. Yeah, you do it like imagine if the future of You know mental health treatments is oh every 90 days I do a therapy session under the influence of psilocybin, which is extremely safe on the body Moving in that direction, but then the 70s happened And yes, it just became this thing they could target like certain groups of people to stop these protests And there were lots lost all the research lots of studies were done We're being done on psychedelics until they were labeled, you know enemy number one or whatever and uh, that was it It all got shut down. Here's my only fear, right? So this is all done in a medical setting You're a pharma company. Okay. You're still a company. You need to make a profit So you have either Anti-depressants that people take every single day huge markup big margins or a one-and-done drug Yeah, or the money machine or you buy three pills a year Because you go see the therapist once and then like that's the part that makes me go, huh? How's this gonna work out? Are they gonna charge? Hopefully that gets disrupted. I mean you gotta imagine it with the metaverse Wow, what do you mean taking the psilocybin going through your therapy on in a in a virtual setting Imagine how come on we get that one That's gonna fuck with your mind, huh? Just like I want to take shrooms and play video games Just think about that big enough dose Oh my god, I just can't I can't imagine what that would be you're already in the metaverse if you take a big enough dose But I think it's remarkable and I hope that the research continues And I hope that they find a way to make it profitable because then it'll be Easily accessible although I will say this I'm not going to name any names but I do know therapists these are Psycho not psychologists, but psychotherapists and psychiatrists who are Working with some of these psychedelics kind of on the side because it's so effective Yeah, and it's because they're like it just works nothing works like this for some of these patients Do you think it'll get fast-tracked because of marijuana kind of paving the way right now? Or do you think because of the because of like what you just I think the decriminalization will the use of it as a pharmaceutical They have to find a way to make it profitable. Otherwise, I don't know how we'll do it You know how it'll get covered or why why they'll invest in In developing these drugs necessarily it has to be profitable. That's the problem Now where's decriminalized places like oakland, right? That's a place where it is Are we seeing like these little pop-up therapy type places there must be clinics? Yeah, that are servicing right that's I don't I'm not aware of I have no idea I mean that are on the up and up right? I've heard rumors of people that will do it with you and stuff like that But I haven't heard of like somebody who's like advertising or that are promoting that they they will take you through Well, isn't it organ? I think they're they're full-blown legal, right? Um, no no no still decriminalize. Oh, yeah, they just decriminalize other drugs. That's what organ did Oh, I thought they're all crazy everything off the table going to the store and buy And buy some yeah, no, I don't think so. You know what makes it makes me wonder If in the future because we've talked about this a billion times How much of You know sustaining weight loss and maintaining a good relationship with food and fitness is psychological It's all psychological, right? I mean that was always the challenge with clients It's like they know what to do. I've been helping you have been working with you But you just you have this really bad relationship with food or maybe you're using food as a way to self medicate And it's just this is very challenging What if downstream? Some of these therapy sessions could be on other things besides the extreme stuff that we're seeing which is like depression ptsd What if it was like i'm obese? I can't figure this out or I can't quit smoking Or i'm an alcoholic actually I did see studies on alcoholism and it actually showed a pretty good effect What if it's like that so you go to the doctor or your therapist? They give you Silocybin for pretty much any kind of challenge that you have then you come out of it And you're like, you know what I want to take care of myself It makes sense of its surfaces, you know something there that needs to be addressed that you've been avoiding Right, and I know it's like effective in that regard It'd be interesting to see if it had that same effect because I know too like some people do Hypnotherapy and and other treatments that are kind of unconventional and have had success, you know being able to Uh break some addictions, but yeah, it'd be interesting to see if there has to there has to be a little bit of a self-selection bias So right now if like people that are willing to do this right now when it's gray market are really I mean if you are doing this now like either one you're you have experience with that already or two You're really seeking to help yourself or grow right and so you gotta be in that mindset So I think that mindset going in probably has a lot to do with the outcome of it versus if it becomes so widely accepted there But he goes like oh I'll just go try that and hopefully that'll fix me and then the the work part isn't in there or the desire to really hear What you're saying you get what I'm saying like yeah, so the people that are making that are doing this now Are willing to do that right? I've been trying to figure this out trying to wear and they want to put Now there's a there's a counter to that right the counter is that they are So far testing this on treatment resistant individuals like one of the hardest things to treat in medicine Is treatment resistant depression? So hard to work with and solve so challenging PTSD also Severe PTSD is so hard To work with and to help people and it's like it's like it's such a torture And the fact that they're showing these results on these treatment resistant Kind of challenging individuals Makes me think that you know and what you're saying is very valid too So that's interesting even think of that but I would guess that maybe we'd see even better results Because now you're dealing with people who are more aren't so extreme. There's not that severe Maybe we'd see but I don't know but I feel like because of that they they They treat it like it's no big deal and they don't go in with the same type of effort I don't know. I just feel like everything else in our life We've learned how the important of the the journey the hard part and the climbing them out and going through all that Stuff and if everybody can just fast track to fixing their obesity problem fast track to Fixing their depression by getting high one time. I just feel like you're going to see those those percentages start to decrease Yeah, that's not a bad point at all. Yeah, just my theory. I don't I mean because it those numbers are so incredible Um that I would have to think that there's there's probably people and it's very I mean life changing for those But I bet those are people that have tried a lot of different things that have been working really hard To probably try and fix it I think that attitude alone going into something like that that is opening up the mind and making those new pathways I've been reading the theories and they know what's happening in the brain, right? It's opening new pathways It's getting different parts of the brain to connect other parts of the brain But the way that they explained it was like was like this. Okay, so let's I'm going to try and bring it back to what We've experienced working with clients. You're working with someone They have an issue with obesity. Maybe it's a lie. Let's let's paint the picture. This person's dealt with Uh being overweight their whole life. So you have the client who is a overweight kid overweight teen overweight adult now they hire you and they're 40 Very challenging to get this person to change these behaviors. It's been how they've lived their entire life Until they're willing to go deep and acknowledge those challenges and acknowledge why they have these things and face the pain It's very hard to get them to change. So the theory behind a lot of these psychedelics is They make you they open you up to the point where you're Okay, you forgive yourself and you face your pain like I was reading one on on ptsd And one of the challenges is getting this like let's say the soldier who has ptsd to to walk through what happened Go through it and not be like angry with themselves and what did I do? But rather forgive themselves and be open and that's the big part of why they think some people think These things are so effective. So that part right there makes me hopeful Yeah, and you'd think that uh, some of these government programs would get behind it because like even my dad like as He was in the vietnam like how they got exposed to agent orange Uh, and it was like such a problem way later on. Yeah, but besides the trauma and everything else of just being in war Uh, just just like him having to go to these treatments and then they have to like cover that these insurance companies, you know from the vets Uh side like you'd think that this would be something that it's proven It's got a track record. It works like saves money saves money because there's so many different visits You need to to take to kind of treat more more more soldiers die from suicide now than from from war Yeah, yeah, it's been like that now for a little while. What has been the the latest I mean, what's been the latest big news in this space? I mean you brought up a while back with the decriminalization in some of these states But has there been anything else that we've made like huge headway like a lot of stuff We're talking about right now. We've kind of known for a little bit now Yeah, no the biggest one was uh, there was a company. Let me see if I can find the name that had that created a synthetic version of psilocybin The company is called see Cybin cybin very inexpensive. I invested in them too because I thought this is interesting a good way to head your bet Yeah, and what they did is they created a a drug that was like psilocybin But obviously a pharmaceutical makes it easy to patent and whatever and they also had positive Results so they could yeah concentrate and have replicable dosage So it's like because I would imagine that if you need to get mushrooms, you don't really know Uh, the potency of it like oh no, no, no they standardize it I was gonna say that's a good question too It's like is is psilocybin similar to like marijuana where the same same size of a mushroom could be dramatically stronger or weaker than another But when they do these in studies, they they standardized the psilocybin So they're giving you so when they grow the whole process the same it's gonna have the same result Then they yes they take out the psilocybin And then they make sure you get the exact same dose as the next person So they're not just giving you a mushroom to eat where you could get a higher dose or a lower dose They're standardizing the dose So now the reason why a a synthetic version is interesting is because now you can patent it Well, yeah, so psilocybin grows naturally. Yeah, so they have to find creative ways to patent relatively inexpensive too, right? I mean it grows on cow shit right for for free. Yeah, again back to the cows Hey real quick. I hope you're enjoying the podcast Look if you're watching this podcast if you're watching the show or listening to the show You're very interested in your health. You're interested in nutrition and fitness Now here's one of the challenges that people run into when they increase their protein intake And they're trying to eat healthy sometimes they encounter some gastro issues high protein diets Sometimes your digestion needs to Acclimate it can cause some issues Maybe what can help you are digestive enzymes now. I use them regularly. They help me with my gut issues I don't get gas from lots of protein. I break down my vegetables and my starches much better It also helps my body assimilate these foods So i'm utilizing more of them for the things that I want them to go to like muscle growth And less to maybe body fat storage although that has to do with calorie surpluses When your body is inflamed from poor digestion It can move hormones and your body in a direction that is unfavorable Digestive enzymes can definitely help and the best place to get digestive enzymes is mass zimes They make digestive enzymes for fitness people Go check them out head over to mass zimes.com. That's m a s s z y M e s dot com forward slash mind pump and then use the code mind pump 20 For 20 off. All right. Enjoy the rest of the show First question is from alex eun from your experience. How much muscle could an average genetics beginner put on in a year? Assuming they're following a maps program. It's a really good question You're more than other programs great commercial for maps. Yeah, no, no, okay So if okay good programming low end 40 high end 60 pounds somewhere on there Not true. That's a bold statement. Okay, so let's say you got a good workout program So it's appropriate for your body. It's geared towards building muscle. You got good sleep good diet average genetics I would say it's probably realistic in terms of lean body mass in the first year for a man To probably gain anywhere between I don't know 10 to 15 pounds of lean body mass in the first year All things being equal. I think that's do you guys what do you guys think? I think that's uh, If you're talking about a brand new beginner, I think that's uh, very realistic. I think you could see even higher numbers that I mean, uh Professional bodybuilders would say that if they could add 10 pounds of muscle in a year That's like amazing. They're already so big, right? Yeah Well, and they've also been training for a long long time and taking everything already in their son But when you're new Boy, it kind of it comes on pretty quick. So that's lean muscle. That's not just overall mass Which I think a lot of people get they lump all that in together in terms of what they've gained So yeah, we're talking just the lean muscle. Yeah, I would say 10 to 15 is pretty reasonable 10 to 15 In about a year the first year with everything being good for women. It's probably more like, I don't know 48 probably roughly half And then each year after that you'll probably slow down in terms of your gains now. Here's the thing Okay All things being equal boy. Is there a wide variance in genetics? So I've I know people That have gained 30 pounds of lean body mass their first year of training and these are just genetic freaks Freaks, yeah And then I know other people where it's like five and he got you know Men where it's like four pounds of lean body mass in a year and that first year is really really challenging So it can really make a big difference. Well, I think that most the the uh, The stuff that I've read is between a half a pound to a pound like on the good end Right on the high end a half a pound to a pound of muscle a week if everything is dialed in a week Yeah, oh my god, that would be that's two pounds a month two to four pounds a month That's what you just said 48 would be primo for 56 weeks, but the reality of that's not then maybe initially, right? Yeah, yeah, right. So and that's I mean again, that's the high end What someone could potentially anticipate. Well, I think you there's also that novel sort of window if you're a beginner Right, you get those sort of new gains for the first few weeks for the first few months And you can kind of like, you know, get a real good jump start It's all relative to it depends on the actual size already too. So someone who is a 200 pound man Yeah, I could gain 20 pounds and it's not that big of a deal That's 10 right? Yeah, exactly a guy who's 100 120 pounds Uh, total different story. So I mean it depends on the size depends on the genetics So there is a wide variance here, but you could put on a decent amount of muscle in I know as a as a young lifter I know there was at least a year there where I had a good 10 to 15 pound You know gain in a what was your best year? Probably something like that. Yeah, probably something 10 to 15 pounds my best year non anabolic, right? So like obviously I've had bigger jumps when I was on steroids, but uh, naturally Probably 10 to 15 Mine was when I was 16 and I gained like over the summer I gained about on the scale 14 pounds I don't know if that was I'm sure it wasn't all lean body mass But that was over a summer as a 16 year old Okay, I got stretch marks in my legs and in my armpits But it's genetics play a big role and also when you're a beginner the muscle gains Kind of look like this. It's almost like a bell curve At first your strength goes up quite quickly But you don't gain muscle very quickly and that's from central nervous system adaptation and you're learning the exercises You're learning how to do them properly So you're not really able to maximize the benefit you get from them So it starts off from a muscle gain perspective a bit slow and then it ramps up Then it kind of peaks and then it starts to slow down again So it's like if I got a new client that was otherwise healthy You know, you know in an you know, let's say the age range of 20 to 40 And they're doing everything right It's usually after the second month that we would start to see the muscle gains really start to to come on Well, don't you think though too like they hit that inevitable sort of tapering off and plateau because they're not thinking ahead in terms of changing the stimulus up And you know the programming and addressing that I think a lot of times that you just feel like you're you're making all this progress and you stay within that same Sort of protocol whereas this is something that we really were intentionally drying up With the maps programs. Yeah, I read Another article that said that the average man over the course of a long period of time with good training good diet What could gain naturally? Roughly 20 pounds of lean body mass above their what their body would normally carry So that was the the the number that I read So if if you're lean body mass, it's around 160 After you know four or five years of good training be consistent. You could probably carry an additional I mean, this would be an awesome commercial for us I mean, I'd love to have somebody who's like owns like four or five programs, right? Because that's what it would take to get all the way through a year And and changes up the stimulus every three months, right new program Stays tight on their diet and is a new lifter and then reports back, right? You do your body fat test before just to see kind of your baseline do something that's consistent Whatever one you decide to do and then test the end of the year it'd be really interesting to see what that would be I'd love to like a lean muscle Yeah, sort of competition. Yeah, I think I think 10 to 15 Is uh Very very likely. I think it's you'll see some I think it's realistic. It's realistic. Yes, this is reality Likely is is hard because how many people beginners, you know For a year. Okay. Yeah, but we're we're assuming that we're assuming they are doing a calorie increase, right? We're assuming as they start to build they slowly continue to increase calories workout, right there Well, they're following maps, right? They're following maps all the way through for an entire year quick recovery They're yeah, they're well, which that's built into the programming, right? So they're following maps perfectly for a whole entire year They are eating accordingly meaning that as they gain muscle They're continuing to scale the chloric intake Up from where it was before and they do that consistently for entire year. I think 10 to 15 is more than realistic I think you should expect that For if you're doing all things, right? I would love to see yeah Somebody squeeze that even further like see how far you go. Oh, I had someone I had some I mean I got dms all the time I had a guy gain 20, you know, and he's probably up a little bit better on the genetics standpoint He was young he was in his 20s, but he gained 20 pounds of I think almost all lean body mass his body fat percentage of facts stayed the same I think he only gained a couple pounds of body fat With that so I've I've seen it from some of our people, you know, it's funny is the longevity effects That they're measuring for muscle or really coming from the strength So it's the strength increases that they've connected to longevity not necessarily muscle, but Strength is a great way to correlate to muscle. So just a side note Next question is from kenzie benzy double zero Our tricep kickbacks effective the internet says they're canceled. You know, it's funny. I like that kenzie benzy One of them. Okay. Here's one of my favorite things about following Resistance training and exercise for as long as I have Exercises are like it's like clothes. They fall into fashion. They fall out of fashion into fact in the 90s It was super unpopular to squat nobody freaking squatted everybody leg pressed and hack squatted now Everybody's starting to squat again dead lifts didn't exist. Nobody dead lifted in the gym unless you were a power lifter Overhead presses were all behind the neck with a barbell. Nobody did military presses like like we talk about now tricep kickbacks have been popular Unpopular popular unpopular Do I think they have value? I absolutely think they have value What I put them in the same category is like dips or close grip bench presses or skull crushers. No But if you do a proper tricep kickback where you really pull the elbow up real high pin it to your side And then focus on that squeeze when you bring the dumbbell up to Almost nothing will cramp your tricep like a tricep kickback because of the shortened position of where You could easily convince me it's worthless Here you're gonna like my analogy if we're gonna stick with the clothing analogy Okay, we're gonna stick with your clear clothing analogy. I want to hear you guys out though Listen, if we're gonna stick to the clothing analogy that the these things fall in and out of favor and the tricep kickback Is someone then the tricep kickback is the chums of Clothing or apparel you could do without them. They're not that big of a chums are chums are the ones that go in your sunglasses Hold your glasses. Nice accessory. We're cool for a little while. They actually still sell them. I took a picture at a gas station I'm being sold. Okay, like early 90s reference. No, no. I'm gonna make my I'm gonna make my case. Okay tricep kickbacks. I put it in the same category as You know cable press downs with the rope Like those types of what bodybuilders call finishing exercises If you've done at the end of your workout a really a really well done tricep kickback And it's really important you keep your elbow high pin at your side and focus on full squeeze Almost nothing will cramp your tricep like that. I swear to god try. I mean, I guess if cramping the the tricep is what builds muscle Then that would be a good point. Come on. Don't be a smart ass. Try it and see for yourself. It's it is It's not a word piece. It's on that level. I mean, I wouldn't want to kick for a long time I was all into him and it was probably in the early 2000s the arms version was doing them, but Yeah, I don't know. They don't they don't make it. I can't tell you how how long and if I were to do them now Okay, if I were to do it once you won't probably catch me doing them Um, I would actually do them on a cable and not a dumbbell. I really think they're worthless with a dumbbell So most people let their elbow drop too much. They use momentum You've got about a the six inch of window of movement where it's actually effective at all That's what it's such a different feel when you do with the dumbbell. It's all about the squeeze You hold it way up there. Oh my god I would definitely if I was gonna do it I'd grab it probably like one of those single ropes And then I would pull back with this so that way you least are keeping the consistent tension on it the entire time through the movement Uh, yeah, no, it's not a I think it's it's not canceled. There's all I mean, it's one of those Yeah, it's one of those pumping exercises like the other ones that people do look. I tell you what Try them out. Here's the deal with your elbow far back and pinned to your side So your elbow is literally higher than your body The long head of the tricep is shortened then on top of it. You squeeze like crazy at the top It's an interesting feel that I haven't really replicated with almost any other exercise. I'm not saying I mean, you're getting that elbow position in a dip No, you're not you're not getting it at the top What I'm talking about is that full squeeze at the top with the elbow higher than your body It's a very shortened position for the for the elbow is still up and you're locked out You don't get that in a lot of movements. No, you don't now with that full squeeze. It's it feels very interesting Now again, I'm not placing it in the category It's it You'll find it and I think one of our workout programs. Maybe is a focus session. Did we maybe Is static or split? But yeah, it's It's definitely in there as just like your single joint like this is we're hyper focused on just the tricep Like any angle possible. Yes, but it's not canceled. I think it's got some value like other pumping exercises do If we were to go back to how we always talk about an order of operation of exercises As far as all the tricep exercises are out there It is towards the bottom If not the very bottom of tricep exercise. In fact, give me a tricep exercise. That's worse Oh easy supinated grip push-downs Easy Well, what because you're comparing it to pronated and that's correct That's just the way how many tricep exercise you see in your wrist position. Yeah, they're changing the wrist position Do all this other stupid stuff. No, no, it's better than that where the elbow Yeah, if you're if you do three exercises for your triceps and the last one is a finisher where you're getting a pump Swap it out for kickbacks. Try it out. Do the squeeze at the top. Go light Hold the squeeze at the top. Watch what happens. I feel like he's defending it just because he was doing it like two days ago I saw he was in the gym. Yeah, he's doing that. And then what's this one call where you go like sideways Yeah, that's the uh, what's his name? No, I can't because it looks that's the Michael heard There's the elbows out. I'm not doing anything but I'm trying to emulate. I have a dumbbell right here And I'm coming the inside of my chest And then I'm extending I mean we we've said this before no exercise is technically a worthless exercise And everything has some sort of value if you work out all the time and you Do a lot you've done all the tricep movements and you never do tricep kickbacks Would I concede this argument like okay? Yeah, okay. You could you could go there just I think that it'd be hard for me to name an exercise and I don't like your reverse grip tricep push downs Because if you did that and you didn't do pronated, it's not a bad movement. It's just a silly movement If you do pronated then it's a silly no, I think it's I think it's super. I look I'll tell you what I haven't done them like full disclosure. I haven't done them in a long time But I have done in the past and they use the word cancelled No, it's not cancelled for a pump and for a squeeze as the last exercise in your you know group of exercise for triceps I think it's got some value will it replace Dips close grip bench presses, you know skull crushers overhead triceps I mean you got another exercise besides that reverse grip push down that it's not that it's not worse then All the cable weirdness that people do for triceps. Oh, I do this way. I do it this way I do it this way. I grab a rope. I grab a bar like okay What's really important with triceps elbow position? Right in front of your body over your head down by your sides name a tricep exercise where the elbow is behind your body almost Well, yeah, not at the the peak because you're you start there in the dip right in the dip your elbows But you don't finish with your elbow up at the back. Yeah, I mean you can make that you can make that case Yeah, um, so sell one everyone else I don't think you won this argument, bro It's still on the just above worthless. Yeah exactly You named one exercise and I would make the case that if you'd never do a pronated push down that a reverse Push down is not bad. I don't know. All I want is Andrew to put in here a score You get like a point of a point Next question is from Hannah fit lift. Is it possible to get stronger while eating at maintenance? Of course strength is a skill. I've gotten stronger Not added any muscle at all just because I was able to fire better And just control the weight better and have better skill and technique with it Well, this is where a lot of the central nervous system doesn't come into conversation We've we've tried our best to kind of describe it which is hard to do To people but really like just going through that process of being able to recruit and intrinsically like produce more force creates a stronger situation where you can now have access to to more strength than you did before but Not necessarily you're not going to gain size Necessity well, that's why I've always loved the analogy that sal gave because I never heard it before we all got together Which was the the speaker and amplifier analogy and I think it just works in so many examples it works here again If you are put if you're investing in your your amplifier to get more power to your speakers You don't necessarily need more calories or more strength You get better skill at a movement and you're increasing your amplifier. You're making your amp better The juice. Yeah, so you don't necessarily need to have higher calorie to do that And or add a bunch more muscle in order to get a bigger amplifier for your muscles And I just that's why I love that analogy because that's an example in my opinion of the cns here Is that you by practicing and getting the movement down really well You are investing in a better stronger amplifier for your speakers I'll give you an example that completely illustrates what we're talking about If you take two groups of people and you already know what their maxes are nobody's gaining any extra muscle And then they go and test their maxes again, but you give half of them caffeine and the other half no caffeine You will see a statistically significant, you know, maybe five percent or three percent increase in strength In the group that took caffeine Did the caffeine make them build more muscle? No caffeine is a cns stimulant So it just got their cns to fire Harder and they were stronger. Can you do this without taking supplements or chemicals? Yeah, you could train your cns You know when they do studies on olympic weight lifters olympic lifters are They can they can summon something like 95 percent of their actual potential So you have 160 pound olympic lifters. Have you ever seen that because we've talked about this right? We've touted that before have you ever seen that compared to what the average person is average person is something like 40 to 50 Is it really that low? Yeah, I I knew I didn't come closer actualizing their potential in order for the average person to generate their true potential of strength They have to be under extreme Stress situations. This is like this story. Maybe you're trying to win or yeah, it sort of overrides a lot of the governing That's in place. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you guys have ever experienced that yourself Where you're like you're in danger your kids in danger and you do something and afterwards like like for me I definitely lift weights and stuff. So i'm sure i'm higher on the on that range than the average person But I by no means train like an olympic lifter and I definitely don't train plyometrics and explosive power I do a little bit now because of justin's influence didn't do in the past But i'll never forget my son my oldest now. He was two at the time He was at the top of the stairs and he was saw me and he was just ready to jump off the top and I Leaped I grabbed the rail. I ripped it off the wall and leaped to the top of the stairs and caught him No way. I could have done that naturally. Couldn't have paid you And I pulled a lot Same thing like my son was falling down at else anything I pulled my hamstring really bad because it's just boom I you know exploded and that's why your body doesn't let you do that. It's got those governors But yeah, you could totally if you just get better at a lift You can lift more without gaining any muscle now. Is that beneficial to building muscle? Yes Because as you lift better and you get stronger because you lift better now You're able to apply more stress to the muscle and get more out of that exercise Well, this is why the advice that we give so often to people is just you know Look at your workouts to go to the work gym and just practice Just practice and get good at the movement because that in itself forget Adding weight to the bar and trying to sweat harder and increase intensity Just go practice getting good at the movement and watch the carryover. You'll get you know There was a soviet method of training that did that where they would take athletes and let's say the athlete could squat Uh, let's say they could squat 315 for 20 reps for example They would have the person squat 315 for like 15 reps or 10 reps every day Even if they got stronger so 10 reps at one point kind of feels like oh, I could do another 10 But then the next few times like whoa, I feel like I could do 25 They kept them doing that for three months and then they would test their max and you'd see this huge boost And strength and it was all because they were practicing The next question is from kev petrishan Why is it that some pt certification companies focus significantly on the idea of vo2 max as the greatest indicator of health and tool for program training? Because that's that's what the studies center around So one of the challenges Uh that I have with a lot of certification courses is also a lot of their strengths, which is they focus heavily on data And when you look at the studies on physical performance and health There's lots of studies done on vo2 max and endurance Very little studies done on strength and they're all athlete driven Which has no real relation to like everyday average people. Yeah, so it's also very It's one variable that you're looking at versus it was measuring strength. It's like cholesterol Yeah, but there's a lot of moving parts when it comes to that Like as far as somebody's somebody's rest could have been good for a day So their strengths down or up like so things like that Well, we do we do now have studies on strength and they are very simple They use a grip strength test and it's actually a better predictor of all cause mortality than other single metrics It's my favorite way to do it But it's just there were no tests like there were no studies all the studies were done on stamina and endurance If if you were if you were research in the 1990s or before And you wanted to study the correlation between physical fitness and longevity You would almost always pick some type of an endurance metric So there's a lot of studies that are done on that. There's very few done on You know flexibility or strength although now we're starting to see a lot on strength They're starting to show that there's a huge connection between strength and longevity So this is why they do that now Here's the flaw in that you're training average everyday people and you're a new trainer and all you're looking at is vo2 max and you ignore mobility You ignore, you know strength. You ignore how able how how well they are able to fire particular muscles and posture In movement because you're just focused on vo2 max plus training vo2 max Is a bit inappropriate for a lot of clients, right? Like if I have a 60 year old client who's never exercised like Probably not a good idea to push them To max out their vo2. It's also really easy to manipulate and to improve I don't know if you guys have read the stuff on like you could improve your vo2 max every day Every day you can improve it. It's a pretty fast adaptation. Yeah, it's a very fast adaptation So it's like I don't know. I'd rather focus on something I think that's going to take a little bit more skill more time and better behaviors and get that in my client before I mean, I could put them on two weeks of every day doing some intense cardio and by the end of two weeks We're going to have a huge difference in their vo2 max What's the most protective and we've seen multiple studies now coming out about, you know muscle being like one of the best Things to pursue because of the strength and the protective qualities it has for all kinds of things, you know, even with You know prevention of disease, you know protects your organs Yep So many benefits to that and then also just like eliminating aches and pains for the long haul versus like you focus on cardiovascular output You know that repetitive stress that oxidative stress all that stuff accumulates and if that's your only focus Like you're going to end up in a in a bad position. Yeah, to be fair improvements in any metric of physical health within a particular range, right? So we're not going extreme So improve your endurance or improve your mobility or improve your strength like all those things are going to improve Your health and your longevity. So to be fair, they all contribute, but here's the part that gets very challenging Is there's other things that they sometimes don't include in the studies for example If you get stronger, you're less likely to lose your balance and fall So I'd like to see a study that shows The correlation or connection between strength and falling down and breaking your hip or how about pain If you get stronger, you're less likely to have pain, which means you're less likely to take pain medications Which have their own negative side of the major factors that can cause issues, right? So it's it's it's much more complicated And also if you really want a good indicator of health You're never going to use one metric. Anyway, even strength is by itself is flawed You want to look at multiple metrics to give you a like a whole picture and then look at behaviors and quality of life One of the reasons why we work with NCI for example is NCI actually takes that into account. They really take into account Behaviors and context of the client. They're not they're very science focused, but then they're also like but also Look at the person also consider What they're going to be consistent doing what they enjoy what their quality of life is and what it can potentially mean Downstream and then here's how you apply it to this particular individual I think that's so important and a lot of certifications miss that because they just go off of the research Look, if you like our information head over to mind pump free dot com and check out all of our free guides We actually wrote a bunch of guides to help you with all kinds of fitness goals Again, it's mind pump free calm. You can also find all of us on instagram So justin is at mind pump justin i'm at mind pump salin adam is at mind pump adam