 Go back to Twitter so you can get a better question than how awesome I am. So at You Said, Mike Hunt, he asked, what's your opinion on Zelda Wii U? Oh, so don't laugh yet. Can I get the question now first? Okay. And I apologize ahead of time. This was not, we did not tell people what to bring up for topics. At You Said, Mike said, what is your opinion on Zelda Wii U? I'm going to end the video with a link at the beginning of the game. I run quickly enough in all the time that this debate has been going on, which has been for years now. And for the several months we've been doing Zelda increase, I don't think this question's ever actually come up. Oh, God, you're waiting for me. So I'm going to let Darren start, just because he is the one that everyone likes. Oh, gosh. Okay. Yeah, everyone hates me. Josh knows this. I put out an editorial. I forget how many comments a guy was in the thousands. 2000 plus. Yeah. I said Zelda Wii U should have, or a future Zelda game, should have a gender-neutral protagonist. I am not opposed to the gender options. I'd love that too. And I know Josh has an opinion on this. You care to say that, Josh? Okay. So this question, is it the gender-neutral thing or choosing gender? What is it? It's gender options. Yeah, he says specifically about options. Yeah, I'm 100% in support of that. And I think my tweets were used in your article, Darren, because I just found the notion that... Because the whole reason that the gender-neutral link, even a topic came up, was because of that fan mod that just all it did was removed any reference to Colin Link, like my boy or anything like that. And it was kid instead. And everyone freaked out about it. It was ridiculous. Yeah, what upset me the most was people saying that you're a bad dad. That makes you an awesome dad. That's a lot of bad... Yeah, that's an awesome dad. Everyone has their own opinions on how to raise kids. I have three kids of my own. I'm not going to be editing the game for gender neutrality for my children. Because I believe my children should experience the same games I did growing up. So they should experience it the way I did growing up. And that means that for some reason my daughter can't connect to Link because he's a dude. Well, then alright. That's just the way it is. From my experience, females don't have a problem with that. But from what I know, at least from the Zelda Informer fan base, we are like 85% male. So a large portion of the people that do play the game are male. And I think you'd argue that the Zelda series on the whole primarily does cater to men over females. It doesn't mean females don't like the game. So don't hate on me. We have tons of female fans, lots of female cosplayers, so many great... We have female staff. There's a lot of female fans of the game. But it's massively outweighed by the number of males that are. And that could just be gaming in general for a console. You're digging your own grave deeper. I don't know. I know I am. But it's one of those that I don't believe that my children should experience a different game than I did just because of what gender they are. I made that little clip earlier that gender doesn't matter. That's the way I feel gender doesn't matter. So there can be a gender option. There can be a gender list. At the end of the day, I never played as Zelda game because Link was a dude. It had nothing to do with why I played. So it doesn't matter to me what gender he is. This isn't a game that has deep love stories in it. The closest we got was what Skyward Sword with the high school thing. And then they don't end up being together anyways because one's a goddess. So it's... Spoiler. Sorry if I ruined that for people. So it's one of those things that it's never really been a big part of Zelda. Zelda has always been about gameplay and then tying story around that gameplay and being about legends and all this deep and rich history and all the stuff that the hero has done in the past. So it's got nothing to do with gender. So that's why to me, if there's a gender option, I have no problem with the gender option because gender to me doesn't matter. If it's genderless, it doesn't matter because I'm probably still going to view it as a male protagonist anyways. So it doesn't matter to me if they include it. Now I know to a lot of people, it does matter. They have deep, deep, deep, deep feelings, either for or against, mostly against, at least at Zelda Informer. And I just... I don't understand the anger. I don't understand how you could be strongly against it because the way it... Okay, let me think of this. Yeah, Link's gender has no impact on anything in any of the games. It's like Ganondorf calls him like boy or something, like an ocarina of time, like as a put down because he's young. But Link's gender has nothing to do with the actual games. So that's fine. So you can take that argument in two ways. You can say, okay, so there should be a gender option or no, there shouldn't be because it doesn't matter anyways. But I think if it doesn't matter, I think it should just do... The easiest solution is just do the Pokemon thing because I very strongly have the opinion that Link is the player protagonist. Yeah, yeah. See, the weird thing with Pokemon, and I've seen some people bring this up before, because the Pokemon didn't start out that way. Pokemon you were a boy, it was just the way it was. And then later Pokemon games, they added, you know, you choose if you're a boy or a girl to start. And Pokemon is one of those weird games because it doesn't really matter. You play for yourself. You're not trying to save the world most of the time. Really, ever. The world's not really a major. There's always evil organization, but they're not really owning the world. So you're just trying to become the Pokemon champion in the earlier games, trying to catch them all, etc., etc., etc. So, like, when they added the gender option at the start, a lot of fans took it as there's just two different characters. There's a boy and a girl because it doesn't matter. So there's just a boy and a girl, and you just choose if you want to play as the boy, you choose if you want to play as the girl. And they do that Mass Effect as well. They are technically two different characters. They're not the same character. Now, everything in the game obviously stays the same. It's the same conversation trees, the same end results outside of the fact they reference you as a girl or a boy. And I think that's okay. I think the counter argument here for Link is that marketing-wise and icon-status-wise, he's very well-established as a guy. Very well-established. I have all this merchandise in my house that it is a dude Link. That's why gender neutral would work, because they still have the appearance of a guy. If they do the general neutral, yeah. And the thing is, if they do the gender neutral, if they do the gender options, it doesn't bother me if they do it. But at the same time, I'm on the side that I don't see the point in putting in the extra effort that's going to be required to have two different dialogues that have different things that depend on which option you choose at the beginning of the game. Seems like extra work for something that ultimately doesn't make a difference to the game. I would say that it is worth it, because just the way that I've always played Zelda games is I always self-insert myself tremendously and stuff. Every time I play a Zelda game for the first time, Link is always named Josh. I don't do the jokie name thing unless I'm doing a live stream or something like that. And I think if there is that option, since Link is basically just supposed to be you, I think the Pokemon thing works really well. And they just introduced Linkle. Have Zelda Wii U, have you at the start of the game, Link and Linkle live in the same town? You choose which one of them is the one that gets chosen by the Triforce or whatever the instigating plot thing is going to be. Yeah, but now you're going to really upset fans, because now it's not Link at all, because Linkle is now established as an individual character that's not Link. So now you're telling characters that now you're going to try to tell the fan base guess what Link is an option to not even be the hero anymore. So you just choose Link. I say it can go either way. I'd be okay with either, because I think Linkle in that case, like I don't like in Hyrule Warriors, she's more of a specific character because Hyrule Warriors isn't like a proper Zelda game or whatever. But like I think she could work just as well as being she is your link to like the game world and is supposed to represent you, because like all this stuff about no, Link has to be a dude because he's a specific character. Link has like no personality traits or anything that like sets him like up as an individual thing that can't be changed. Like everything that people think is like that's his personality, that's actually like the player putting their own feelings onto him. The Linkle thing, the reason that usually gets brought up for future games is thanks to IG Enomo himself, he said something about how people really, really like the character Linkle. There's a chance that, you know, he could try to bring her into the official lore and make her part of the, you know, I might have been too late for that at that point, but part of a future Zelda game. And so there is a potential that she could be brought in. I don't know if they should do that necessarily, but I could see why it would be an option. It would be neat, you know, even if she's not playable, it would be kind of cool if like Link did have a sister and Zelda U and it was Linkle, even though Linkle I know is not technically his sister because IG Enomo shot that down because Aril is the only canon sister that he wants to have apparently. Even though all these different links, which I don't know, IG Enomo just, he contradicts himself a lot. I could see Linkle in like one of the hand-held games. Can you imagine Linkle in the art style of a link between worlds? That would be amazing. I love Linkle. Yeah. So it's one of those things that I am just fine if there's a gender option because it doesn't affect how I play the game. Genderless, and if it's genderless, chances are, when you're playing you're not going to notice because it's probably still going to be a male Link avatar most likely because Link has an iconic look and it's just not going to ever reference him as a guy but everyone's going to pretty much know it's a guy. Well that's the So for those that want him not to be a guy, it won't necessarily be a big stretch unless they do something really really masculine with him in-game. Like in Twilight Princess when he Sumo wrestles, clearly that's a guy. There's no like that was the only genderless fan mod I did not like when he was in Twilight Princess because you can't pretend that's not a guy. There's no the pretense is gone, his shirt comes off and he Sumo wrestles. I'm not saying girls can't Sumo wrestle, but girls do not look like that when they Sumo wrestle. So that was the one game I kind of disagree with but I think you just did that to piss people off to be honest. But well if you read his comments he's pretty salty I don't think it's about it. It's nothing to do with his daughter anymore. That's the thing is that I just thought at first like I thought it was a super cute thing that like a dad did for his daughter because like I understand both the argument, like it depends on how you want to view it on whether I'd prefer my kids like play the game the same way that I did with like a boy Link or whatever. Or I could say I want my kids to play the game the same way I did extremely identifying with the character and pretending that I am them. And it's like a 16 bit game so it's like Link's a blob of pixels. Like you can't tell if that's a dude or a girl. So like the girl or the daughter he did it for she probably doesn't even know that like Link is originally supposed to be a dude. And that was kind of the counter argument. A lot of people I saw put forth was okay so you're and it's kind of inferred you're like you know I obviously was a guy I grew up so everything that I've experienced has been as a guy and I am a guy that views myself as a guy I am a man through and through I don't view myself as any other gender and so when I was growing up obviously everything I experienced was through the eyeballs of a man or a boy at the time and you know it's like when I say I want my kids to experience it is that you're teaching your daughter in this case for him and that you can't that she should only be able to connect to females that she cannot connect with a male character and that really it was a point that I never considered before because you know when I think about my kids playing games they don't have any problem playing as Mario they don't have any problem playing as Samus or playing as Link like my daughter likes playing cause she sees me play Zelda all the time so she when we play Mario Kart which she is not very good at she needs my help getting around the track still she loves playing as Link cause she knows that like I do obviously I do Zeldin former as a job so she knows that I'm always talking Zelda and doing Zelda and she probably hears me talking right now so she always you know she thinks it's just really cool and that he's a cool character and she wants to be like him and it's you know and yeah she does refer to him as a him and he does obviously like my statues and everything like it's a guy she knows what a guy looks like so it's one of those that I never really considered that like I understand that it might be easier say for a girl to connect with another girl just like it's easier for you know bros to be bros but I also have really close relationships with females and connect with them and can relate to them and I can understand the standpoint some people might have with in terms of why it might be a negative for the daughter is that what you're kind of saying is girls can't connect with guys or can't project themselves into a male character and there was a point that I'm like you know that's kind of a fair argument I get that point but like at the same time it's not I don't think it's that like you're not like corrupting your daughter or something or like expecting like oh she can't you're not protecting her like oh she can't connect with boys this game for her own sake like it's just a cute little gesture that the guy did and like yeah well yeah yeah yeah and I think that's why people had I guess what I saw based on what I read which obviously there was a lot of irrelevant chatter that I'm not going to get into because people could just be dicks but the biggest thing I saw was just that like okay okay okay so like we're not going to make this big argument that he's a bad dad and you know she's six months old or whatever and by the time she's like six or seven and eight and playing all the games you know she's probably not even going to notice that the character's generalist and she'll see art and just assume it's a guy anyways and blah blah blah and that gets back to the point that you know why have the genderless option if ultimately she's going to end up realizing it's a guy anyways and probably have it not affect her gameplay experience at all like if she's not you know when you're six seven eight are you really disconnecting from that character you play like I it's hard for me because I was a boy like when I grew up playing the games I never realized it was calling me a boy calling me you know or calling me a kid like it didn't yeah so you're a guy so you know like if someone calls you boy you're just like it's like yeah that's what's going on but if if a girl's playing the game and they call a boy they're probably going to notice that like a tiny bit more it's like okay this this person's a boy and this is a conversation that I feel like I wish we had a female on today because like it's so hard because all we are is we're just a bunch of guys with opinions and really we're talking about how females feel or would feel growing up and it's so hard when we don't I mean we have female staff members we don't have one with us today so I feel like it's just so hard because all of our perspectives come from we're guys we grew up as guys we don't have a problem with gender you're you think he's an avatar and you're going to connect with him you know still being who you are him being you and but we're all guys so we're always probably going to connect with him in that way but it's also weird too because I grew up I played Metroid when I was younger and it was a huge shock because obviously the whole the whole game you know basically gender neutral and how it references Sam this is the first game first game anyways and then you have the big reveal at the end that it's a girl and you know yeah I was shocked but then yeah I still went on and played Super Metroid still when I played Metroid Prime like I still connected to that character and you know maybe it was just because the very first game approached it in a way that made it like easy to connect to because you didn't know it was female to the end so it was an interesting approach you know because the only thing I could think of you know when I think of the think of how girls could feel that's how I felt when I was you know playing Lord Croft or playing Samus and to be honest and this is why I still hold my opinion that the gender just doesn't matter to me I connected the same way I connect to Link it didn't really matter the only difference well that's the thing like Samus like Lord Croft yeah Samus doesn't have a personality but it's other M people this was the thing that on twitter whenever like this was this whole thing like when are the article that just come out see Samus cosplay yeah no was people being like well if if you're gonna make uh Linkley gender neutral or like a girl like why can't you make Samus a boy and it's like well okay so the first Metroid game like it is 100% just done as a plot twist like it's done to set to have the game be different because if you're playing a video game and it's a it's just a person in like a mech suit because of like how male driven like the game industry was and like still kind of is you just assume it's a dude like in the space suit and so then whenever it's surprising whenever at the end of the game it's like oh it's actually a girl in a bikini is in uh is inside the space suit ha ha and then Super Metroid I don't know much about Metroid too but Super Metroid is like 100% like homaging the alien movies with like everything that game does story wise and like theming wise so and those are very like based on exploring like motherhood and like femininity and stuff like that so I I don't like the fact that Samus is female is an important part of the Metroid games but Link being a dude isn't an important part of the Zelda games yeah I totally agree with that and I only disagree on one point there yeah I only disagree on one point and that's that I don't think Samus is actually um I like I've played every Metroid game I never found the gender to matter outside of how the characters referenced her well the thing is I don't think I don't connect with Samus my big argument with Samus well and you might be illustrating your point you don't connect with Samus is part of the reason you don't connect with her because she's a female no it's because it's because Samus isn't designed to be a player avatar like Link is so I don't try to even connect with that character I'm playing as Samus an established character with a personality the first games the first like three games, four games, five games she doesn't really have a personality she is an avatar other M is like the first time she really got a heavy personality she's not created to be an avatar she's created to be just a character in a video game unlike Link I mean even even Metroid Prime literally puts you into the mech so like it's very much is like an established character with her own thoughts and stuff like Super Metroid opens it's her telling the story of like this is what happened in the last things these are like my thoughts on it I felt uneasy leaving the station or whatever it is she is on some level she is supposed to be more of a player avatar and especially like Metroid Prime takes the whole being inside her helmet thing very literally and stuff like that but I think she's closer to being a fully fleshed out character than Link is and especially by like Metroid Fusion and Metroid Other M like those like by that point she is a fully developed character even if she doesn't say much in Metroid Fusion the character she talked to like know a lot about her and like reference past events and stuff like that like Samus yeah that's true that's true that's true it's hard with Zelda because the reason you see a lot more of it with Samus in this case is because Samus is a continuous character there's just one Samus and it's the same one in every single game so every reference to her is all about that singular Samus so when you see here reference to a Legend or reference to a Hero in the Zelda series it's not necessarily reference to the character that's your portraying right now and the heroic deeds that happen then and so it's a little bit harder since it's not all the same character always being referenced however often times when you enter into Zelda game especially post I already post Ocarina of Time Link is established in the world he has a backstory there is a reason he's where he is and why he does what he does and a lot of it's got nothing to do with you as a player it has to do with everything with like as an example your quest in Ocarina of Time great doketry knows a lot about your history a lot about where you came from a lot about why your his gender doesn't come into his history at all like the gender doesn't impact his history but that's that's kind of my point like Josh here is talking about how he just he just talked about how Samus you know gets referenced as having a personality having a character and I'd argue that in many games Link is referenced as having a personality and a character as an example in Skyward Sword in Skyward Sword I'm told that Link is into Zelda I don't feel like I'm into Zelda the game tells me that I'm into Zelda and it's one of those things I don't know I was kind of into Zelda yeah but that's because the game made you feel that way because the character of Link is already into Zelda has been established as long term friends that have this interest for each other and like that's just there's one of many many examples where you know you can argue all the facial expressions and all the stuff like Link does things in games that I would that's not how I would react to it but that's how Link reacts to it because Link isn't me he's his own character and that gets into the whole avatar versus character and obviously the Zelda team itself has gone back and forth on it you know in 2014 Adionoma said that Link was basically an avatar he didn't use the word but he used the definition of what an avatar is to describe him that's why he said it was funny when people got mad about what gender he is because it doesn't matter and then there's been other times in the past when he said that Link is very much his own character and this is what Link believes so that's why I said Adionoma Adionoma especially I used to think Miyamoto was bad but Miyamoto was only bad about the timeline Adionoma contradicts himself about everything it's like depends on what day it is and what he had to eat that day and how he feels so it's really hard like when he talked about like when Majora's being made you know just made all these comments I don't know why I did this or why I did that because your mind changes all the time and that's fine that's cool everyone's mind changes a lot on a lot of topics especially things you've made you know there's things I did I used to before Zelda Informer I ran a site called Zelda Domain and sometimes I go back and reminisce and look at some old archives of it and I'm like man what was I thinking when I did this why did I do that things I don't remember and I come up with you know so I always look at it as I don't think there is an answer to whether Link is an avatar or a character because I think it comes down to how the player perceives Link to be you perceive him to be an avatar and I'm not going to sit here and tell you you are wrong you are free to perceive him as you want and I think that's kind of what Adionoma was getting at 2014 was that you could perceive him to be whatever you want it just happens to be that a lot of people perceive him as a character and now I think what happens with Link and I think why this whole debate blows up and gets people so mad is just like Samus, just like Mario just like Master Chief their icons they are something that have existed for 15, 20 in the case of Zelda 30 years as one singular thing with you know a very defined look a very defined character at least in terms of how the character is represented obviously game to game there's differences and the duty games especially are very like nondescript with Link although between worlds actually had a lot of references but whatever it's all it's all perception and if you think he's an avatar I think some games he is an avatar I think some games he's not and that I think has a lot to do with the many links there's all these different links links for days so I think I think a lot of reason this is why some people are actually upset that so far in Zelda U we have not seen the green tunic that Link has a very very defined look a very defined iconic status and changing gender or going gender list challenges a bit of that iconic status now you can argue like a female Link can't wear a green tunic that's kind of where I no it's not just it's not just the green tunic the green tunic is obviously the most obvious standard like if someone's cosplaying they're going to have a green tunic that's just the way it is cosplaying the Zelda U link right now because we've only seen the blue there obviously there's people who have done the windmaker berjamas but in general people might not recognize the windmaker berjamas but they'll recognize you as Link if you're wearing the green hat the green tunic okay whatever but it's not just that if you even look at a lot of the cosplays outside of the cosplays that gender bend because there are cosplay players that purposely gender bend the character a lot of even the females of cosplay try to make themselves look like guys because that's what Link has been yeah and they still look like females well because you can't change who you are I just think if you're not recognized as both the Link from Windmaker and the Link from Twilight Princess because everyone gets that those are the same look they're the same symbolism and iconography I don't think it's that biggest stretch to have it's a green skirt along with the tunic or something and it's a girl it's all about traditionalism that's really what the argument comes down to he's always been a guy it's been 30 years of him being a guy as you're saying gender to you really doesn't matter because you're still going to view him as a guy anyways and it's one of those that we really need a female perspective on it I've seen several females say that's great but I would like to hear a female that almost feels like you feel like gender options should be a thing I would connect with the character more because I think if we can get a perspective of someone who disconnected from the character because of the gender that would be a very interesting perspective because we've all connected with Link but we're all guys so I would like to find a female like I said I've seen female commenters say I want to actually if you're out there, if you're listening to Zelda inquiries right now hit me up, email me I will gladly get you on a future episode or maybe a separate podcast where we could just talk about the gender, get it all the way and you let me know how you feel tell me why the gender matters to you why you disconnected from the character I really want to know because we're really just taking shots in the dark on why we feel we might disconnect from the character if it was the other way around but we again it's shots in the dark that's how I would feel because Link has always been a guy if Link started out as a female would I feel different today and was always a female, I have no idea because that reality does not exist so like that and I think it's all about traditionalism for a lot of people they see Link and they're like, look, he's always been a guy it's been 30 years of him being a guy there's no reason to change him games are still popular and blah blah blah and I understand the big reason to change this and that's so here's my solution which I've gone on the record of saying this is I think the ideal way to approach this I'm also 100% for gender neutral Link or even having Link himself able to be female I'm totally okay with those I wouldn't be mad if Nintendo did that but I think the ideal way why and appease everyone is make it you pick between Link and Linkle at the start of Zelda Wii U are you Link or are you Linkle okay you pick one of those you give them a name you give your horse a name I think that's the best way to go about it because then it's like, oh, Link is like in this adventure Link it was Linkle that did the thing but Link is still playing him as a specific character and he has to stay that way Link is still there you're playing as Linkle I've always before this genderless stuff came out because genderless stuff has really got people off the rockers there's been a lot of debates in the past in Zelda Informer, pretty much since Ejinoma suggested that Link could potentially be female but it doesn't matter and ultimately shot it down after he trolled everyone well there should be a gender option but on the side that I don't care if people care about the gender so much then put an option in and if that option ends up being Link vs. Linkle or whatever it ends up being it probably won't be Link vs. Linkle it could still just be Link with just a female version and a male version and the differences are very slight between the character models and then in the game it might be a genderless text situation so they don't have to write the text twice if they did that let's say the next Zelda Wii U just comes out it's like what everyone's expecting they never say Link's not male or anything but then just all the text in the game they just never actually refer to you as boy or he it's like they they did that in Undertale and I didn't realize until halfway through Undertale that I wasn't that they were being gender neutral I assumed it was a boy because that was just how I was playing the game and it's like oh they never actually say that I just assumed because I was connecting to the character so no one would notice if they did that but everyone's making people make a big fuss at the idea of it well because the big fuss with the genderless thing I think is obviously in the 2D games it's pixels and you can't tell whatever you know in the box art and everything else it's definitely a guy so I think the bigger deal with the gender neutral stuff is that if the character depiction is clearly a male whether it's in pixels you can't always make it clearly a male but if the box art for it and all the art surrounding it clearly shows that that's a male people don't understand why you would even need to go so far as gender neutral if there's more things to gender than just being gender saying that they never reference you as a boy doesn't mean that you're not a boy from the little trailer we've gotten yeah but we haven't seen any of the art for Zelda Wii U that one trailer for Zelda Wii U when AJ Enuma said that could be a girl yeah go ahead Josh well he'd remember he never actually said that it could be a girl he just didn't say it wasn't a girl yeah he just said that's an interesting thought process and then he left and took off with it and said but some people believed that's not Link because he said I never said that was explicitly Link he was just trolling he was literally trolling he probably didn't think it was going to blow up the thing is is that the character model in Zelda Wii U like that one trailer we saw I could I could totally see that as being a girl just if they didn't reference it there's nothing about that character design that sticks out to me as like oh that's gotta be a dude other than the fact that Link is traditionally a dude yeah well that's just so far well that's just so far I mean let's be fair when we talk about Zelda U we haven't even seen the game at this point we basically know the art style the general direction of the art style that's pretty much it it's been the same looking we haven't seen a trailer we haven't seen footage in a year and a half no we saw footage last in November or something there was like a 16 second clip and it was all new and it had like new weapons and it was in a new area so it is as far as I'm aware unless they changed the art styles this year which I doubt it based on Agin and his comments that it clearly seems like they're in the final stages heading into E3 here so to me I try to stay away from the Zelda U for all we know there's another part in the game where he has to be shirtless for something and usually shirtless is one of the big giveaways on is it a guy or is it a girl and that's why I thought the gender neutral thing was just so canned because the game clearly depicts you as a boy with or without the text saying it then just don't make him shirtless in Zelda U well I know I'm not saying that let's just not make him shirtless I think the shirtless thing wasn't about gender at the time anyways it was just about the impact of the gameplay of sumo wrestling and sumo wrestling was traditionally not having shirts on that was the idea so like I would hate for Nintendo to be like man we have to consider we have to consider genders when we're considering how we want to approach gameplay and referencing real world type things in a game that's a huge of an impact though like I think to be honest if they never said anything about it ends up being gender neutral in the text no one is really going to notice they might notice now because they might be looking for it now if it doesn't blow over by then and the more we keep talking about it the less and less it's going to blow over but I think that it's one of those that if there was a gender option at the beginning of the game they didn't even talk about it and they just released the game and it had it I think the gender option is obviously the best thing for everyone I think if they just keep it it's the same link but you can just decide it's female or decide it's male at the beginning of the game and that's just that and then it's just kind of a dragoness look which Link has arguably I would say had at times, I have often called Link a pretty boy which means you can kind of get away with both looks if they just alter it just enough where you can't tell which as you reference is kind of altered to that state right now you can't necessarily tell and that's all fine that's great, whatever that to me would be the best approach the problem is that all these people that are so against it make up so far the very very very vocal majority of people talking now there are people that feel the other way but it's not just that they're drowned out you know like give a really small vocal minority I've done polls on this I have followed and read all the comments about the minority against it you talk about things in everyone you're really pleasing the small minority the people that are angry about that in the grand scheme of things with how wide ranging Zelda is overall I think that does turn out being a minority because if I told any of my friends that are just like casual gamers or something it's like oh Link can be a girl in the new Zelda they'd probably just be like cool and I don't yeah that's true the only franchises that they would play I think Zelda is just that big that even people that wouldn't consider themselves gamers are still like if they have the console they'd probably get the new Zelda or something like that I think the people that would be annoyed or like oh that messes with the timeline or the resurrection the hero the people that would actually be mad about that I think that overall is a vocal minority so we're going to do a little bit of a topic switch because I've been talking about this for a while and as I got to release this in segments I don't want to have an hour long segment on just gender talk it'll probably be the most disliked the most disliked part of the entire conversation so I'll just end it on this if for some reason a future Zelda game features a genderless link or features gender options and you are a person that's going to write off it 100% and I don't think you're playing Zelda for the right reasons to begin with you need a better place to spend your time as I keep saying gender has never mattered to me in the game and you want to project yourself on I get it there's all these little intricacies but every Zelda game to me exists on its own plane so it doesn't matter what the gender is going to end up being because it's probably going to be a fantastic game anyways so like I said you want to write off the whole series because of it be my guest because I'm sure you think Nintendo is being a social justice warrior PC or whatever so we're just going to leave that alone don't worry folks we're not going to be talking about gender on all of your episodes it's all increase and all the time it's all informer it's only when the topic gets brought up so you don't want to hear about it just stop asking about it so he's got no problem with that you can tweet me too at real during all of my youtube so thank you Mike Hunt for oh jeez you can tweet me at Nate Jans I will have a conversation with him I think we've said all week I've kind of said all my piece here it matters the conversation is so silly to me not just because it matters so little to me that I don't know if people can angry on both sides of the spectrum I just don't think it really matters to making a good Zelda game so thank you Mike Hunt for getting us tons and tons of hate it was it was very welcomed so