 The federal government has hailed the United States of America for removing Nigeria from its least of countries with religious freedom concerns, calling the decision fair and just. U.S. Secretary of State John — U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken announced the removal of Nigeria from the list. In a statement, Minister of Information Lai Mohammed said the U.S. government action justified Nigeria's position in December of 2020 that it didn't engage in religious freedom violation or had any policy of religious persecution. He said Nigeria jealously protects religious freedom as enshrined in the country's constitution and took seriously any infringements in that regard. Well, joining us to discuss this development is Judo Logo. He is a legal practitioner. Thank you very much, Mr. Logo, for joining us. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure. When you heard that we were added and then, of course, in less than a week removed from that list, what came to your mind? Yeah, I was very happy. That is a very good one when you talk about the brand management of Nigeria because it didn't paint us in the very good light that we were classified as intolerant. And if you look at the position of the law, you look at Section 38, Subsection 1 of the Nigerian Constitutional Act in 1999 as amended, and you also look at Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, what we have is that every person is entitled to freedom of thought, conscience, religion, you know, including freedom to change your religion and hold beliefs, either individually or as a group or as a community, and to propagate your beliefs. So in the situation where it appears that people cannot freely, without intimidation, express this fundamental human rights, then it must have been a worrisome thing. And the U.S. being the global police, classified Nigeria, not just Nigeria, some other countries around the world has been intolerant, and there are statistics to back that decision up that were even generated within our own country, you know, though in the global environment they have been watching us. For example, you take the statistics of about 43,000 Christians killed by Islamic jihadists in Nigeria, according to inter-society, and then it's not funny at all. And this figure arose from two-third jihadist killing, not less than 17,000 defenseless citizens, so you can see that level of terrorism. And of, not just Christians, Muslims were killed. Recently we witnessed what happened in Jaws, Plato State, where about 19 Muslims were accosted and about 22 of them were killed. And then in the case I refer to, the 43,000 Christians killed, a total number of Muslims, one of the Muslims killed by jihadists in the same past 12 years, is with about 29,000 Naira. I said Naira, 29,000. You must think you have lost a lot of money. You must think you have lost a lot of money. 43,000 Christian deaths. So when you put all this together, you must really be worried, knowing that the loss of the land and the loss at the global level can mix you to hold your belief, and that takes us to trying to define what intolerance is. I was going to ask that question and I was going to ask you directly, how tolerant are we as Nigerians? Because, you know, as a journalist you're trained to work with statistics, facts, and figures. But realistically on the ground, how religiously tolerant are we as Nigerians? And I'm saying this cuts across us being Christians or Muslims. You know, obviously with what the Boko Haram started, that has now graduated to the advanced level, even the name of the group suggests to you that there is a hyper intolerance to holding divergent religious belief, Islamic state of West African countries, and what is the intention? To establish Islamic caliphate. So that means they are not willing to accommodate other religions, and this is not fair, really. We have instances, there was a particular reverend that was killed, I think in Ademawar state, and he was kidnapped by the Boko Haram in Michika in Ademawar state. They demanded about €2 million, and they were offered about €50 million, but a video was released on January 5th of that year, where the demand pleaded to the Nigerian authority that please secure my release, for he was eventually beheaded. You see, we also have the account of a 75-year-old woman, Mrs. Bridget, Ibrahim a Christian trader in I think in Karno state, who was beaten to death by Iraqi youth for accusing her of blasphemy against their religion, and other instances like that, I mean there was this woman, I think Eunice Elisha, who was killed after preaching in Kuba in Abuja, so it shouldn't be. And going down to the root of all this, these religions we talk about, can we claim that they are primarily our religion as a people? The answer may not be yes, because basically I think we have the background of being traditionalist. And if we have embraced these religions from other communities, then why are we operating as if we don't see how these religions are practiced in those countries? For example, if you look at Saudi Arabia right now, Saudi Arabia is more permissive than it used to be, because that country must continue to prosper. You look at the United Arab Emirates, it is a Muslim community, but you see how it is operated. You look at the United States, though a secular state, you can see dominantly, a Christian state, you see how they are supporting their people. So I think we are just dealing with some extremists here, but like I said, for us as people, as Nigerians, I think we have scored a public relations bonus by what has happened, and that means there must have been some reforms, or that the statistics are going down. But that is not to say that we still don't have it keep happening and different kinds of insecurity that we have in Nigeria. Okay. I'm curious more to, and where my question was going, that's why I'm going to bring you back to it, was a one-on-one basis. For example, we are so religious in this country, so much so that a Muslim girl and a Christian guy may not be able to marry because of the differences in their religion. Now, it's obviously not my place to decide who wants to marry who, but I'm trying to say how tolerant are we of one another. Let's leave the terrorists out of this, because those terrorists are from amongst us, they started from amongst us. These are people who've been radicalized by our religion. And so this is why I asked, how tolerant are we as Nigerians? Let's not even bring the ethnicity into it. Religiously, how tolerant are we? Because if we were tolerant of one another, we probably would not have this monster called Boko Haram in the first instance, would we? Basically, we can only classify this. Perhaps in the area of marriage, we've not had a wide spectrum of tolerance because the Christians hold a belief that the light has no fellowship with darkness, why should we be unequally yoked with unbelievers. And on the other side also, interestingly, the Muslims sometimes refer to Christians as kefiri, which is translated inferior, unbelievers. So basically, and that's why I alluded to the fact that if we embrace this religion from others, why don't we deeply study how the church is. But in the area of how well we call other sectors, in the interlaces where churches are next to mosques, when you go to places like Mushi, but it appears as if amongst the, do I say the downtrodden right now, we people correlate, you know, when you talk about diggers, for instance, get to some communities. You see Muslims and Christians being friends. As I speak to you, I have Muslim friends, I have Christian friends. You know, I have a liberal mind to watch it because what my Christian injunction tells me in Hebrews chapter 12 verse 14, Hebrews 12 14 says, follow peace with all men and holiness without which no man shall sin the Lord. So we are dealing here with the extremists. And can you even claim that they are religious? That's a big question. You know, I mean, Islam is paraded as a religion of peace. So is Christianity. So where do we now locate this terrorism that we are experiencing or the hostility that we experience? So I think it's just the absence of discipline to accommodate the beliefs of others. I did a study to go back to the scriptures, the fountain of Islam may be Ishmael given back to by Abraham and Isaac also came from Abraham. So children of the same father going in different directions in life in terms of religious tenets. So why should we now be setting the place on fire? Because you do not want to embrace my religion. No. And like I said, laws are put in place to regulate relationships in communities. So if the constitution of the country that is the ground now stipulates that we should be tolerant, why are we not tolerant? And if I may ask the question, since we have decided not to be so tolerant, what have we achieved? So can we turn around and see how we can synchronize our efforts as in people and begin to enjoy the prosperity in the land? I have asked this question, what religion does group oil practice? Who can answer that? I was going to ask, since we're talking about the law here, I've always been curious about it. Our law, that legal document is for a secular state. I do not know if our laws are carved for a religious state. Nigeria definitely is a secular state, but we do not necessarily act like it is a secular state. And I'm wondering if that constitution doesn't say that we the religious people of Nigeria, why are we making religion the front and center of everything? You know, let me even specifically mention that the content of the Nigerian constitution as amended stipulates that the government of the federation or of the state shall not adopt any religion as state religion. And it only amplifies what we are saying here that the constitution guarantees freedom of worship and no one should be victimized for their beliefs. But here comes a question, in terms of benefiting from the government structure, don't we have situations where the religion you practice gives you advantage? Don't we have cases of nepotism? So I think it's just been the choice of those who drive the system not to submit themselves to the rule of law and try to subvert the spirit of the constitution and by and large I think we should do what we call returns on investment. So why do we continue with intolerance that has thrown us into object poverty as a nation? I've mentioned some countries of the world where they embrace one another and they enjoy the goodness of God. And as much as we claim to be religious in Nigeria, what in Nigeria, what have we shown for it in terms of prosperity to the people? And I think we have come to the point where we really need to think deep on this. And I must appreciate what we have been saying lately that with the level of insecurity in the country, clerics and stakeholders are coming across but beyond religious sentiment to say, hey, this is a dangerous development. Because having said much right now, you will know that the terrorists, they are no respecters of religion. As far as I am concerned, they have killed Christians, they have killed Muslims, they have killed pagans, they have killed soldiers, they have killed policemen. Or what religion does the fighter jet that the bandit brought down? What religion does that fighter jet defend? So those are questions. So it matters what you allow within your society if you either put you in the direction of prosperity or the direction of poverty and look at the reputation of our country globally now when at the point in time the Boko Haram was classified as one of the top things of most dangerous terrorist group in the country. And there are other issues which may point to body language. You can see the National Assembly having profiled the activities of the bandits calling on the president to declare them as terrorists. And the president is reluctant to declare them as terrorists. So there are several indications that we just need to wake up as a nation and begin to allow the life to shine irrespective of the religion we claim to practice. Well, I want to say thank you. Jido Logo is a legal practitioner. Thank you so much for being part of this conversation. We're hoping that we will stay off that list as time continues to go on. Thank you. God bless Nigeria. All right. Thank you so much for staying with us. We'll take a short break now to watch the weekly highlight on the show. Yes, of course. And when we return, I will say my goodbyes. But again, how many people are really interested or even have the knowledge about what's happening within the budget? We hear about the budget hearings, the presentations that are being made. But the average Nigerian is worried about the price of food in the market, the price of gas that might be 10,000 Naira next year, and all the other simple things. So which Nigerian other than you and I and a couple of us who are interested in what's happening within the budget would be questioning all of these things under these ambiguous subheads. The middle class, the middle class that has continued to keep quiet in the face of several injustices in Nigeria, are the ones who are aware, I mean, those are like, there's an absence of a real middle class in the sense of a word in Nigeria. But you know what I mean? These are people who have a university degree. These are people who drive a car to work and have an office job or have a business they own. These are people who pay for their monthly subscriptions and different things, like the interdictable know what this means. And these are the people like you and I who should be speaking out about things like this. I mean, for a country that has consistently run a budget deficit since 2016 or 2015, Mary Anne, you know what they say? You should not spend what you don't have, live within your means. Nigeria right now is like a man who's boring to find a lavish lifestyle. It's a man who's saying, you know, give me money, I need to pay for my student's trophies, please give me money, I need to buy some food for the house. And they know that then boosts you up a part nightclub and spends it when they remain. The thing about the truth is that it's a movement without doing shit. It's a line that is forever changing position. So you might hear people say one thing today and then review their position tomorrow because they necessarily have to keep adjusting their position to fit whatever the light was that they told them before. We have a regime by governments, if you prefer that, in this country today, there has no regard for human rights. And the government is not pretending about this. Answers protest happened because of failure of governance. I like to stress these points at every opportunity that I have. They wouldn't have been answers if we had a responsible government. We had a government that lived up to its responsibilities. People came out to protest because of the vacuum in leadership. The issue of police brutality, the issue of a judicial killing of Nigerians has not been addressed till date. And you see till now, with all that has happened, Nigerians are still being killed almost on a daily basis by the police. People are still being arrested illegally. I receive these complaints and reports almost on a daily basis. The word that shows you is clear lack of political will. Clear sincerity. Now will there be justice in terms of implementation? Yes or no? There are aspects of their reports that I believe that the legal state government is going to implement. The greater challenge and I hope so. I hope so. I want to give the governor some benefit of the truth and never believe it. And what I cannot also come to hear is the implication of the military. This was purely civil matter and the people conducted themselves in canonical order. So there was no need. They had flags singing the national anthem. And so there was no need was served by the United Nations. The police at no point in time said they had been over once. So you find a callous, conscience-less government trying as much as it can in a rustic manner trying to oppress those that are clamoring for justice and could tell firmly for good government in the country. Because we have a government that is better to position a government that is there, not in the interest of Nigeria, but is here in its own interest. And that is why we have that macabre dance at the gate of Hairana with the crazy speed of Luka. So I would not want to dwell much on what's like Mohamed who has no credibility. I'm very sorry to say this because he's a nationalist and who has no credibility to work there anymore. To dwell but not that to the importance of level of openness and importance to a man that ordinarily should be dismissed for increase. Well that's it tonight on Plus Politics. Thank you all for staying with us. Remember that we're first and foremost all Nigerians before we are north, south, east or west or even Christians or Muslims. It's very important that we see ourselves that way. I'm Mary Anacorn. Have a great night.