 We're talking about the many options for powertrains and infrastructure and You were saying that CS only 50 kilometers of road is the cost of that hydrogen infrastructure in Germany Well, you use quite a lot that infrastructure for hydrogen is such an yeah. Yeah, huge amount of money Yes, but if you put it in the perspective and in the challenge we're facing Today and it just was recently in in the German press 400 hydrogen stations is the same amount than investing in 50 kilometers. Yes highway. Yes. Yes, and If you put that in proportion to all the the cost we have as a society if we don't Attack our lives change. Yeah, so we have to move and we have to move farst and one thing Yeah, I think we as our company. We think it's clear. There's a place for for each Yes, kind of energy storage be battery be hydrogen. Yes Just from the consumer perspective and what we see what we're used to Hydrogen vehicle is closer to what we use today. Yes, because we jump in the car We are 500 kilometers. Yes, we refuel within three minutes. Yeah, and we don't have to wait And yeah, we see a certain disadvantage. Just think about it. You live here in Berlin. So when you go skiing, yeah I rather prefer be there quickly and not stand on the highway and in charge for even half an hour Oh, no, absolutely. And The way down if there are hundreds of battery vehicles, yeah, how should we solve this on the highways? Absolutely, because if they all come at the same time, yeah And in in this context we feel hydrogen is therefore answering that question while in inner city No doubt. Yeah, there will be and in the discussions on going here as well with a blue plate You might have in the future to get access Batteries have a great purpose here and right like our sharing look to Grenoble. We're testing there Currently our battery electric vehicles the the I wrote all right. It's a lovely. Yes. Yes. So you have to find it Because yeah, yeah electric vehicle can really be fun. Yes, but it doesn't have to be big. Yeah, then Even today these little ones because of the small volume is not the business proposition where you earn money with But we have to explore that and try that. Yes. Yes And I think the future will be much more diverse than what we used to in the past, but that's how it is That's really interesting. What do you know anything about the 48 volt miles hybrids in your company? I think the the argument is that the traditional car companies can't convert immediately economically to Strong hybrids and pure electric for everything cars buses everything and that's a conventional powertrain It will become illegal, but it could be kept legal by having these 48 volt mild hybrid adaptations So that usually you then make at least a proportion of your cars for maybe for 10 years That that have a small lithium-ion battery and the 48 volt system. Is that something of interest? Obviously I read also about it Yeah, but if you talk to Toyota and I said well, I think we have 8.7 million Hybrid vehicles on the road and we can do this profitably. Yeah So so what you will see from us? You will see many more hybrids in every model range and then and we have I would even have to count how many we Have on a global scale. I think we have 30 models or more. Yeah that already hybrids today Yeah, obviously we look at everything. Yeah, I don't think that it's such Urgency we have to look in because no obviously we become a different perspective. I understand being not an engineer I think it's not my turf where I would to go too much with any information Yeah, I would like to ask my colleagues. Yeah, but as said, yeah, we have to experience. We believe in hybrids and In a way, we're very happy because we're alone because when we started 20 years ago You know that how many people react? Oh, absolutely. No, they're insane. That's why they're doing that. Absolutely I think today it's a reality that we see we're in the fourth generation of our Prius. We have three litre per Three litre per hundred kilometers 70 grams. So we're reaching already targets that are coming in the future and I think this is a clear pathway we took and we will go along and Hydrogen vehicle is just one one side path Which we have laid out for many years because we use the same architecture Yeah, and and we've been impressed by the fact that you know people don't sort of realize that it's all one business and Toyota's the leader in electric forklifts, I believe and that's a multi multi billion dollar business Those are battery vehicles at the moment on lead acid But fuel cells have been put into forklifts by other people in America and various people like Jung Heinrich and the rest have offered forklifts with fuel cells But with no particular success. Do you have a position on fuel cells in forklifts? Thank you for bringing it out. Yeah, because it's also something we're currently testing in Japan. So we just started a trial Because Toyota is not only focusing on passenger vehicles like the Mirai. We do it in forklifts We want to test it and see how the reliability and then how with these working devices. Yes We are looking also in buses. Yeah, so we're having buses in Japan because also Tokyo has made a strong commitment towards hydrogen for the 2020 Olympics and really being a Japanese car manufacturer We want to contribute to the society also in Japan offering and also passenger vehicles Even forklifts, maybe yes that can help to unload the stuff there and so Toyota is looking at a wide range of possibilities to utilize Basically fuel cells and to move hydrogen society forward. Oh, excellent And Toyota has I think a joint venture in in aircraft some link to the aircraft industry and Also with boats, I think they make some boats, but that's just conventional Is there any interest in moving sideways with fuel cells and other electric powertrains into aircraft and boats? I think it would be a little bit premature. So it's on the aircraft side Obviously also here in Germany. There's a lot of activity if you look at Airbus in Hamburg And they're looking obviously as the support functions where a fuel cell could do a great job. Yes, and he wouldn't emit So to say toxins and all that and this this is the beauty of Fuel cell in our case. Yes, we have a boat that's our reason development But this is more conventional still because the key focus is really to get the vehicles on the road Yeah, because where you see the most prominent is on our Mirai on the buses Yes, and I think we're looking in all even household solutions because you probably familiar In Japan, we have a plug in there. Yeah Because in a way here in Central Europe, we live on the island Well of luxury to a degree because we are luckily not hit by devasted devastating situations and in Japan with all The situation you know just recently was an earthquake again and Mirai can supply a house with energy for one week Yeah, if you have a bus you can have a communal house heated for for a week as well So you you see also that hydrogen in a way if you look about energy can also Yes, absolutely. Yes. Yes. Oh, that's really interesting So it's even interesting for the US because if you look My wife is American, so it's really quite frequent and blackouts. How common is this still in the US? Yes, we are not familiar with big problem. Yes, they're not coming up with the money Are they no really what tell me about China? You you own Hino bus? Yes, we do and Hino bus is Not the biggest in buses, but the the big market is is China which We're we're disturbed as observers that the government seems to stir up anti-Japanese sentiment But it certainly protects its industry and it's very difficult for bus companies Whether it's Daimler or Toyota or anyone else outside of China to participate in any meaningful way, isn't it? It's a little bit difficult for me to say because I'm not too close to China in that sense But you know, I just recently had a chance to talk here to a Chinese minister Wang Gang as he came on The invitation of the minister of transport. Yes, and you don't feel that there's a lot of openness Especially when it comes to new technologies despite that every nation is kind of protecting Yes, yes, yeah, I think this is no question. Yeah, but what you see in these technologies We are working all together because it is not that bad air stops at the border. No, no Or yeah, yeah stops here in Germany where we are more in the central position. Yeah And Wang Gang was clearly opening up his doors as well working with all the OEMs They're currently trying to establish something similar. We have here in Germany the clean energy partnership. All right We are not only the German OEMs as you see Toyota Honda. Yeah, they are also participating here Joining in to solve these questions that are still there because it's a young technology It just came to the market and obviously we have to roll out still the infrastructure and all that and make sure that also the costs Come down so there's a lot of development and China wants to join in and I think this is very encouraging to see that Wang Gang is inviting all to join in and to develop together. Yeah Maybe also protecting a little bit the thing, but I think in every nation. It's a kind of no sure. Yes. Yes I understand. Well, thank you very much. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure the intriguing. Thank you very much