 Jigarh Utomi and others form a coalition to oust APC and the PDP. Plus, the PDP may be trying to jettison its zoning arrangement. This is cross-quality, and I am Mary-Anna Poe. Ahead of the 2023 general elections, some Nigerians of diverse professional backgrounds converged to express lack of confidence in the nation's two popular political parties, the ruling or progressive Congress, the APC, and the opposition People's Democratic Party, the PDP. They said the quest to rescue Nigeria from imminent danger informed the idea to form a coalition which would serve as a platform to galvanize Nigerians across political spectrum to free the country from its current woes and give it a fresh lease of life. This does sound familiar, doesn't it? Joining us to discuss is political analyst Biodon Shoumi, political technocrat Daya Kendi, and former member of the all-progressive Congress State Working Committee in the river states, Shoumi Eli. Thank you very much gentlemen. Good day, nice to have you here. Yes. So I'm going to start with you, Mr Shoumi. This is, like I said in my intro, this sounds more like something we hear. Every political cycle where the politicians, you know, start speaking about changing and rescuing the masses, which I hate the word masses, but they always talk about, you know, changing the fortunes of Nigeria and always pointing to either their political party or some initiative that they have. But then they're having questions about the third force and what particular change it can really bring and if it can really stand a chance against the two major political parties. Yes, it's becoming this one song. Every election cycle we tend to hear more progressive elements coming together, wanting to form a new platform to challenge the political parties in Nigeria. There are two issues involved. One is their frustration with the existing structures in the country. One, either the remaining political parties are too weak to use as a platform to challenge or the two ruling parties are failed to make the necessary impact in terms of developmental life expectations of the people and therefore they feel so frustrated by it and then choose to look for a different platform where they can express not only their own political ambition at the same time, you know, strive to try and develop or achieve whatever they think they need to achieve in terms of development. Now, you then ask yourself why a new political party, why not one part of the existing parties? But when you look at the existing political parties, one thing which is common in all is that many of them, if not most of them, are actually formed by different personalities in the two major political parties. They are the ones who are calling it in expectation to use them as a cycle if they have a disagreement. I'm sorry, are you saying that there are people in the APC and the PDP sponsoring the Third Force and this might just be a distraction of sorts? No, no, no. The existing political parties, we have more than two political parties in Nigeria, registered political parties. Many of those registered political parties in existence to be are bad behind the scenes and financed by members of the existing two political parties. So that is where they may feel frustrated by it and think of having a different umbrella. But again, the argument could also be set up because we have parties like National Conscience Party, some one or two or three political parties left ideological limits, which you and I know were formed not necessarily by people with money bars. Now, how do they come in and then take over those political structures? They may not be allowed to do that. So because of that, they choose to, at every election, try and come together, present a different platform. But at the end of the day, nothing has always been coming at all. Whether this one will be different or not, we don't know. But given the experience in the past, many of these characters were involved in the formation of new political parties in past political cycle, electoral cycle. When you look at the only difference this time is that you have people like Atae Ujjega now involved. Otherwise, last year, it's like a swanson. It's becoming a Baba's chair. So with Ujjega's involvement, we don't know what has changed or what has changed. It remains to be seen. Okay. Now, Sobea, you are a member of the All Progressive Congress, the ruling party. And I mean, it's easy to say that your party merged like this. It's a combination of different political parties to upseat, on seat, I beg your pardon, the ruling party at the time, which was the People's Democratic Party. Now, I remember when Professor Ujjega initially came up with the idea of the Third Force and spoke about the eels of the Bahari administration and all of the law points. The APC government struck back saying that he was only pushing his presidential ambition. And I'm wondering what's wrong with that. If the APC has succeeded by becoming a coalition of sorts, why can't the Third Force be sane? Thanks for having me. First and foremost, I would just say it is between the rights of Professor Atae Ujjjega and the others to form political institutions and vie for the political office of their choice. At the core of this, he is trying to get the national estate fixed. And every Nigerian has a right under the constitution to be more party or move into another party or form a coalition with other people to pursue their respective aspirations. But the question will be this. For how long would you have this game of rocking chairs? If you have, for instance, from the Second Republic onwards, when we had the NPN, the NPP and the UPN and the sorts, imagine for once that there's no interruption and we'll build on those parties till now, like the AAC South Africa, who have institutions that can deliver on the manifestos of the parties, not shifting grounds every four years, every election cycle. Some people break away on the form of new parties, tell Nigerian same story, and then move on and then they're unable to deliver the next four years election cycle, and then that team breaks out. I had to be able to say maybe with Professor Atae Ujjjega, this might be a bit different. I disagree. One or two smarter legs would respect them, who are behind this? Probably want to find a credible face. When I mean credible face, I'm simply saying that Ujjjega from his background has asked the National President who kept me at home for one year with National Strike. I can't forget that. And then went on to conduct a national election that was deemed to be free and fair to Elias and my party won. I want to excuse myself from sounding too upbeat about it. That doesn't look like why I'm giving credit to Ujjjega. I'm saying that because I'm a party woman. Well, I'm really waiting to hear where this goes. Yeah, but people are saying that next to the one that was conducted before that produced this chief MQA bill in 1993, June 12th. That election appeared to be a leap forward from the one that Professor Bastangeau did in 2007 that brought about Professor Yeraduwa. Remember Yeraduwa himself had inauguration a little to that fact that election that brought in power was stated. And the promise reforms, which reforms he carried out are finally going to finish by then. But I'm saying it naturally. Some people are smart enough to bring Yeraduwa on board this movement to give it a credible face because name them. Osman Bugadze was one of those who led us in the new PDP after the PDP to form the APC. He has his man fighting there as well. In the Salahke family. Father Ahmed who was immediately passed away. It's that team. And then from that to Tommy, who I know is an APC member. I don't know why he has left the party. But he's there. And then who he gave? These are old names. Who knew that? And they know us too. What we're saying is people who set a national agenda. This is where I want Nigeria to be in the next five years. The next 10 years. 15 and so on and so forth. And then work within a party to deliver those promises. Not to shift political parties every four years cycle. You create confusion because we don't have ideologies. We don't have principles. I'm thinking. That's all right. You're talking to the viewers, but I'm wondering. I because it sounds like you're preaching to the choir. You're a member of the ruling party. And you're talking about the rotating Baba's chair and the fact that we're doing the same thing over and over again. Well, I thought that the APC promised that they were going to bring a change of source that they were going to change the situation of things in Nigeria, including the electoral process by fighting corruption, by bringing an end to insecurity, by making sure that the economy is boosted. So if we're still talking about the same thing in 2021, and we have two more years on in the cycle of this APC administration, can we say that the APC has failed? And maybe we should look for another person to sit on that chair, that rotating Baba's chair again. No, it will be very fair to the APC to come to that conclusion with respect. But in great suspects, that would be the height of, either of fairness, if you like, for the right word. The APC met a colossal disaster on the ground. And in trying to rebuild... Which they promised to deal with. What made that challenge is Baba was soldiering on. Sorry? You said they met a choice of disaster. And I'm saying they promised it. They saw the disaster. They knew about it. And that's why they decided to run. So it's not supposed to be news, is it? We're not trying to... No, we're not trying to do for the responsibility. We're working hard. Baba's lives since 2015 are working hard. And just as some of those problems, we probably underestimated them. And of course, I'll forget, in this country, we have a country where people play politics for everything. But I've seen people who want to give the APC a doggy bad name to destroy it. Some people have actually magnified the problems that were met. Because they must give the APC a bad name to make us look like you and PDP are the same. We're not the same. Some elements in the APC came from the PDP who agree. But that cop progressed into the APC who also were in PDP for now, but are chasing the ideals to make them deliver the mandates. And that's what makes a difference. If anybody says he wants to challenge the status quo, let them come forward with ideas. But I'm saying that this idea of having the core politicians break out of it and then doesn't make sense. Whether we're building institutions, we should build institutions not just moving political parties. Let me go to Mr. Dayakayade. You are a political technocrat. And the question on the average Nigerian's mind is what difference will this Thet Force make? We've heard Thet Force, the first time we heard about this was some people said that the former president, Lushe Gwabasanjo, was pushing it. We've heard it again and again. And now we have the likes of Patutomi and Professor Patutomi. We have Professor Jayga and other people fronting. Again, what is the ideology? Is it going to be different? Is there anything that Nigerians can really hold on to in this Thet Force? Or should we just look at it as another political gimmick? Yeah. Thank you very much for having me on this platform to discuss this very vital issue that is evolving in our country at this moment in time. You see, my own satellites have started about three or four weeks ago when Professor Jayga came on air to say, look, GDP has disappointed us. APC is also disappointing presently. Why can't we in 2023 look at where? And then I asked a question, where are we going to look at? And I advised Professor Jayga as much as I expected himself, can you please come up with a template on how to execute this theorem we are coming up with. And today, honestly speaking, I'm so happy with what is coming up with. Now, what is going to change from there? Number one, let's just look at the people constituting the last meeting they had. Professor Jayga, let us start from Professor Jayga. We knew that Professor Jayga was the first chairman of INEC that will conduct a conclusive, not inconclusive now, as it happened during MKO that did not allow the results to be announced and all that, a conclusive elation that is adjoined worldwide as fair in this country. We knew that. Since after leaving the office, I have monitored him. I have seen the way it has been going from one country to the other as a gas elationary. All right, let us leave that. Look at Barajie that my other brother mentioned the other time. Yes, in less of people after PDP to APC. But why did he leave them there? Because they solved the problem that was happening in PDP. Even to a coffee DP man, he said, look, we cannot continue like this in this country. And he left for APC. And what happened in APC? I could remember he gave a press conference sometimes ago that look, he want APC there, not to come in with mercenaries. Because by the time they bring these mercenaries in, they will not be able to handle it. And that's what we are having now. Somebody who is so bold to come out to say that. So I will say that you can see that is somebody that has the interest of the nation at heart. Let us go to Professor Pat Utomi. We have all known the antecedent of Professor Utomi in this country. We knew him when he was in Volkswagen. We knew all he did there. Even though at the end of the day, the system collapsed. The industrial sector of the country. But thereafter, what has he been doing? I could remember his Pat Utomi gang there that I was having with some other people like Ayotereva and so on. Thereafter, he also moved. I said, look, let us do this in this country. We have all seen that. Now, seeing these people coming up with a group, even though they apply to transfer to a party, it's not a party, it's a group. You could see that these are political enigmas in this country that work to a very large extent. I said, okay, let us work with these people and see what can happen. Because between you and me, angels will not come from heaven to come and get our country. I was about to ask, the movements from party A to party B in search of, for want of a better word, greener pastures, seems a bit tiring. What about staying in those parties to try to effect this change? Because you told me already, you've given us the adosie. But if these people that you call strong men and people who have enigma, why can't they stay in those political parties and effect change from within? Moving from one party to the other solves nothing, does it? Because the APC and the PDP or APCA, they all seem to be one and the same. And we see them crisscrossing every election cycle. So starting with a third force, really, will it change the crisscrossing? Is there going to be ideologies? It's not just about the persons, but what effects, what change can they effect in reality? Two things in this now. Two things anybody can see vividly in this. Number one, you can see what happened to APC in the first day. Everybody knew then that APC is a party of straight-back fellows. And that was why they couldn't pick who will be here or who will be there. At that time, all they were looking for is any other person except Jonathan. Any other person. So there was nothing like a state wall, there was only like a framework on what they are coming to do. That's number one. Number two, you could see that most of the parties on ground now, what ideology are they holding? Or what tenants are they built? But look at this group that is informed to become a party. I'm not a member yet. I'm only following the personalities there and following everything that they are doing. Look at them. You can see there's a rescue mission on a rescue mission. And when you are going on a rescue mission, it entails a lot of things. That is to say, you want to change the paradigm. It is high time we change the paradigm of political process in this country. We don't want to show whereby we have money bags. And then we say, yes, we pay. It is you, Baba. He's saying you should be here. He's saying, no, we want people that have character, capacity, compassion, and ability to govern our nation. And move us to where we want to be. Let me go back to Mr. Xiaomi. I'd like to quote Professor Atahiri J. Ga on something that he said, because we also know that the issue of restructuring and true federalism again becomes a word or a mantra of sorts when it's close to election season. So lots of people keep talking about restructuring. But when it comes down to it, we never see anything done about it. So even the restructuring addressed in any way. Now Professor J. Ga said, and I quote, Nigeria is one of the worst models of political accommodation of diversity as well as power and resource sharing. He admitted that there are no perfect federations or for that matter, true federalism. He said, the better framework and structure for the management of diversity, power, and resource sharing is in a federation. The more stable, peaceful, and socio-economically developed it would be. Now again, we see the issue of restructuring and true federalism being brought up. I struggle with that. What is true federalism? It's either it's federalism or it's not federalism. It's either we're restructuring or we're not restructuring. But here we are again listening to the same things that we heard in 2015 and we heard it in 2019. And we're in 2023. Why should we pay attention to these people? Well, in the first instance, I need to explain one thing. People like Degan needs to get involved. I would also make a declaration. I've known Degan since my university days. I know we belong to the same left movement. I know his orientation and thinking in those days and still till now. I knew him as the vice chancellor of BUK and all that. So I can say a lot about his thinking, his perspectives and all that. But how did they come to this situation? When the APC came in, we were campaigning for change. Everybody embraced the issue of change. So many people thought maybe the problem is strong leadership. Let us team up and change the situation. Know that Jonathan was no longer acceptable at that point in time. He also agreed with Dr. Diocaldi that anybody brought Jonathan. I think he was the one that said that. But the fact of the matter is, after the election, what have we seen? We have seen it was Adam Sushiomole da Fosere when he was the national chairman of APC. He said just to wave the broom and your sins will be forgiven. So we saw how gradually those facing corruption charges started moving into APC. And we gradually saw how those cases were being resolved. You know, the records are there for people to see. So we have the recent latest report in the person of Femme Ithranikadi also facing ACC charges. So what would come out of that? We don't know. We had Oji Kalu before him. You know, when you have now had the same characters who we've been pointing accusing fingers at, suddenly sleeping on the same bed, you know, with the ruling party, it then becomes laughable. There is no way how people like Jigar or Utomi or Prouf would not feel that there's something wrong with APC. I think we need to understand from that angle. It's not a matter of justifying APC or PDP. For me, anything but Junatan at that point in time was correct. Junatan did not help matters at all. It was correct to have changed Junatan. Also, currently, with the state of the nation, where we have been led into almost, you know, think of collapse, where we are faced with existential threat, where we have seen how ants etch men can be allowed to move into our country from neighboring countries to terrorize our local farmers. I think it is time for a new thinking. So maybe because of it, some of these characters came together, you know, to form a new project called whatever it is called. Rescue Mission. So as far as I can see, there's a need for it. We cannot have two political parties in a multi-ethnic nation like Nigeria. One of the errors which we have made in the past, and these are done by nonprofits, is to make sure that you can have independent candidates so that even if you agree between your own political party, you can step out and contest. I can give you a very good example. In the UK, Martin Bell, who was a journalist had to come out to challenge for office and he was elected because he was found acceptable and the candidates of the political parties were rejected. So we have credible examples of... Well, I mean, the new electoral act bill seems to have an accommodation of sorts for independent candidates. It's just, will the terrain allow for it? That's the other question. Yeah, that's one. When you have independent candidates, that is one angle of it. We are here to see it being implemented in practice. The second point is on the existing political parties. How come that political parties are expected to show or before they can get registered, you know, political accession I mean, that they have a national character? In a federation, that's laughable. There's nothing wrong in I saying I want to form Magudo political party. And my interest is simply Magudo. And then you go and campaign, if people vote for you in Magudo, the party is representing the interests of people in Magudo. And that's all. There's nothing wrong in me saying I want to form Shokuto State political party. And my interest is just Shokuto State. That is what they call democracy. That is true federalism. But currently, before a political accession can be registered, they must show that they have a national character. Even I might require you to have offices in to other states. So these are some of the things that should not be happening, which are happening. So when people talk about true federalism, they are actually referring to a situation where all the important ingredients and elements of federalism in democracy are present. As it is today, Nigeria is a unitary state, you know, which we called federalism. I'm happy some issues are not being challenging for the issue of stand beauty, the issue of hate. The moment you get to the root of that, you begin to realize that a new structure will likely emerge. Some people argue we don't need to collapse Nigeria. I agree with that. But we need to restructure Nigeria in order to get to where we want to be. Again, another question is, is it those who brought us to our knees that are supposed to restructure Nigeria? That's a big question that we should ask ourselves. But let me, because we're almost out of time, so again, because you are of the ruling party, the president recently was quoted to say that he does not want to end his tenor as a failure. And to quote Professor Atahiro J. Gah, he said, what we have on our hands today is a disaster. We know where we're coming from in this country. We know the average Nigerian, particularly the youths, they look ahead, and it's difficult for them to see hope. Even under a government that had promised us change. And of course change means that you're going to give us a turnaround of sorts. But we cannot really say that we've seen that change for the better, can we? So will the ABC be able to clean up its mess and get its act together before 2023? Do you see that happening anytime soon? I agree with your episode mess. We didn't clean the mess. We came out of the country. Okay, maybe you made it messier. You didn't create the mess, but you made it messier. No, we didn't make it messier either. See, let me just give you a scenario. We have magnified the problems they point to or missing the point in this country. See, we have a superstructure and then we have a sub-structure in every policy. It doesn't matter. For instance, common grounds for our agree on issues. My state government used to be going to fight on vats. The local state governor with my party man, ABC, agrees with him. So when it comes to issues of who should collect this, we tend to agree. Once it does that, what comes to us, we tend to agree. It doesn't matter what political configurations we belong to. When it comes to giving back to the country, we tend to agree. So until we deal with that superstructure, we're not going to get it right. That's the point. I don't realize waiters are financed in national assignment. I did not know that most of what we have as security issues are overblown theories by politicians. For instance, we moved from the southern Bukka International for Sokoto to Gusou, which is the three-hour journey by road. And I saw only two policy checkpoints. Only two. Only two checkpoints. We had only two policemen in our bus. I was in Zafara for long. I didn't say any security challenges to the left. So I'm saying the problems are not there. But I'm simply saying that look, for us to deal with these problems, we have to step out of that political, you know, as if we're like the issues about... We're out of time. I'm so sorry. We're out of time. We have the civil service. There's security and not policy. You have to deal with them first. Otherwise it doesn't matter what ideas they bring. They'll collapse. I'm not dealing with decisions first. It's not my problem. Unfortunately, we have to go out of time. Dayakai Day is a political technocrat. What you're showing me is a political analyst. And so we realize I'm a member of the Opprogressive Congress in Riverstay. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for being part of the conversation. Unfortunately, time is running at lightning speed. Thank you. That's probably me. All right. Thank you, everyone, for staying with us. We'll take a short break now. And when we return, we look into conversations around the PDP's zoning arrangement. Mighty change. We'll get to find out after the break.