 Thank you very much for being with us here today for this our third in the LGBTQ Iran series. We have the multi talented someone as to whose visual we've just lost momentarily. He works in Iranian theater and brings together trans art therapy and activism. I'm really delighted to say that his film Hamantor Hamatun Manu Mishnasin you all know me has been shortlisted for two very important international awards. Now, whilst we wait to get someone back I'll just go through the order of the day if I may. Someone's going to share elements of this upbringing. And look at some film expert excerpts from his theater work, followed by his own commentary about the work he does in trans theater in Iran. We then have Dr. Bahar Azadi as discussed as a specialism for PhD studies were trans studies in Iran. Before sharing your questions with someone. And now please bear in mind the chat section we're going to keep closed for this section. And then we will please for the Q&A any questions you have address them in the Q&A section. And someone's going to speak in Farsi and I will be translated. So thank you very much so much. Thank you so much for being with us today. He'd like to say hello to all thank you for being here and also to thank Bahar, Aki and myself for part of this event. So I am someone all of us are born at a certain place in time. I was born as the last child of a very large family busy family. I was born in 1967 the photographs you see before you are with a very very old friend and also with my parents to the right. Sadly they are passed from this world. I tried very hard to be a well behaved child but unfortunately I was rather naughty. I was in love with my mother and my father and my father-in-law. I loved my mother and argued constantly with my father over my mother. The majority of arguments I had with everybody was about the love of my mother. I loved her so much that I wanted to even be by her side. I was in love with her and I was very happy with her. I was very happy with her. I was very happy with her. I was very happy with her. The majority of arguments I had with everybody was about the love of my mother. I loved her so much that I wanted to even be by her side. And this picture you see is me age 13, a picture he requested that we take together. The picture on the right is me age 23 years old when I was performing in the performance of Mahdakeh Mahdakeh in Iran. The multi-talented artist photographer who took this photo with us took this photo. It was a very difficult time for me. The picture shows how sad I was. I didn't know what to do, what to be. And Hushang wanted through the medium of photography to help me get a better grasp of myself. Hushang also took a photograph of the productions of Mahdakeh in America. It was a part I played as the main female role I had in this. This was played in Shahood for 90 days taken around various parts of Iran and I was recipient of many awards for my part in this play. After winning the awards I remained in Tehran and did not return to Shahood. And I attended multiple classes. And I worked with wonderful artists including Dawood Rashidi and this is a photograph from the Richard III performance in 1999. Although I was young I played the role of the queen's mother. This play was really important. It was a master class for me. Learning about humanity, how to deal with others with humanity. It showed me so many ways that I can progress within the world of theater. I entered the medium of TV and cinema. These are two pictures from them. In the picture on the left I played a part of a woman who lived in the basically in wasteland in open land. And in another you see me play the part of a magician who is in the streets in the open air. I don't know quite how to explain this idea of basically people in the open air living on the streets and on the roads in between cities. Thank you very much. So I then went on to work with the grandies of Iranian cinema including Kimiai. In one of the pictures you will see me play the part of a bodyguard. In an earlier film I played a part of a female in a village though Mr. Kimiai realized that the issues I had with my own identity. Only female to ever play this kind of a bodyguard role in film. You will also see some films he's worked with Tahmin Amidlani. But this film was for four years it was not given permission for showing to the public. And at the time that it did come out it just so happened that I was also performing. By then I had had my gender reassignment and I was working in another film. So for people it was very interesting to see both these characters as female and later as a male that I played being shown at the same time. So you will see the 2006 film that he worked with Reza Amini and you will see a picture of a TV series that he took part in called Sunny Nights. And before that I worked with Asghar Farhadi in a series. I played one of the main roles in a house in darkness 2003. After I had done my operations the actual director wanted me specifically to play a male part in the film. So having played female roles it's not a director but actually she would. So Mr. Kamal Tabrizi who I had worked with before when I had been in my female sexual self and also invited me when I'd had my gender reassignment only after two operations to specifically play a male role. He found this very interesting to see me in both female and male role. Mr. Bahar Janak Sabadi, I had worked with Reza Amini for all these years and I had worked with Reza Amini for all these years. I had worked with Shama Akhar and I had worked with Bazi Khan and Bazi Gari for all these years. All these years whilst also acting in films I directed and acted in the theatre as well. The majority of my work in the theatre related to women and gender. The last supper and Bazi Khan were actually shown at festivals. However both were disallowed from public display so therefore we were not able to share these plays with the public even though they won awards. But I'm sure that I'm too passionate about it. So even though they won awards at the theatre festivals we were unable to share it with a wider audience. They said your work smells. In Iran when we use this term your work smells in other words there is permeations that go beyond what is the obvious. So it's basically a worry into politics, society, economy and what have you. Mr. Bahar Janak Sabadi. All these years I fought to get my work done. All these years I fought to take my work to the stage even till today I have problems with getting my work out. You have heard about my two performances and you have never been to the stage before. In our film and your theatre. My theatre. Here you see two of my most recent theatrical offerings. You all know me 2016 and photos below show be who you are not 2017. Both these plays were shown in non-governmental small sort of basically fringe theatres with much public support and admiration however they were never able to make it onto the major theatres within Iran. However I am delighted about this independence. These are more photographs of how can you still be who you are not, be who you are not, which was a play without dialogue. After these performances, us the mayor of the Berlin Festival and also from France we had invitations to perform this play in France and Berlin. Mr. Bahar Janak Sabadi. The play you see here 2018. The Idle Out is actually an amalgamation of the two earlier plays you saw. However within this we had 12 minutes where we were invited trans people onto the stage to join the audience and engage in conversation. The workshops that we did allowed the trans people to face the public, engage with the public, ask the public questions and likewise to be prepared to take the questions from the public. The most recent performance is autopsy, it's six episodes and in this we bring up all the issues around LGBTQ. So these are some more images from autopsy 2019 where in each scenario we look at different experiences of the various sectors of the LGBT community. So you'd have one section within the trans, certain issues there, one between the lesbians or gays or what have you, now he's broadening it but actually bringing in the wider community. So the scenes you see here are from the various rehearsal techniques, the top pictures are from workshops in Berlin which I was asked to hold for the students. Thank you. Thank you very much. Someone has now explained to us in brief some elements of his work and now we're going to ask Aki to kindly show the video that he's prepared with basically a montage of his various theatrical offering. So Aki, over to you for the... The people of the community are going to work with a different way of working. And in the midst of the bloodshed, they are going to have a hard time with the girls. I would like to thank all the women and the people who are there for me. Good evening. Good evening. I'm working. You're going to have a hard time. Dad! The community has to be self-employed, self-employed and without any work. There's no way to make a living out of it. Do you remember this place? No, I don't. I don't want to go there. I don't want to go there. I don't want to go there. You're going back home? Yes, I'm going back home. It's that this theater is armed. That is to say, a weapon to fight against domination, both from the point of view of the job, but also from the point of view of the change... Something that we have to do until it's done. Until it's done. It's done in two ways. First of all, you have to change the agency. I'm saying this personally, you're a good person. Thank you very much. One thing I've said before is that I think it's very difficult to understand the language. It's very sensitive, it's very hard to understand. I'm just saying that just watching that brief moment of someone's work, there's something very corpore, engaged, involved, and emotional. I have tears in my eyes personally. I love you too. Thank you so much. Do you have any words to say to Mr. Sadeh Bahar? Yes, I just want to say that the theater shows its work. The work of theater is to show the wise, why do things happen? We live in an aggressive world. My style of work brings in the violence and the aggression, and it involves the audience in that process of aggression and what have you. We don't have the authority. What does that mean? It means that we have the authority. Minority. The fact that we are a minority needs to be addressed. In this way, everyone is a minority to everybody else. We were born trans. We decided a certain point to operate our physical self to what we believe. We used to practice for up to seven, eight months without a single budget, and everyone would turn up with their hearts and minds fully engaged. To remove shame amongst the audience. When I would ask a trans actor to take a lipstick and ask the audience to put the lipstick on them, this would allow the audience to actually face their own prejudices. Many have had their heads cut off, like Ali Reza. The theater of similarity, to show what is. The actual project of showing what is allows and teaches people to face themselves and the issues in front of them. Thank you very much. Now we are going to hand over to Bahar who is going to give us some more academic overview of someone's work. Thank you. Hello everyone. I'm so happy to be with you here and I would like to thank Roya and SM and so as university for inviting me again this time as a discussant. I will not take much time because we have this opportunity to hear someone and I met someone in 2017 when I was in Iran, and I did my research on my, my PhD, and I had the chance to participate in his workshop and some of his performances and later in Paris for two nights of performances of Be Who You're Not and I have two points to make regarding someone's works and performances. The first remark is that one way is the way different audience members in Tehran, Paris and Berlin reacted to the omnipresent violence that is in his work. I think that everybody felt this violence that is omnipresent in his work. So one response or react to the violence they observe in these performances. Do they reproduce it and contribute to the cycle of violence or do they avoid or control the violence. The second point is about what someone have already mentioned is about the work and how he used the theatre as a trap and he tried to facilitate the experiencing of shame. And this experiencing of shame it's not only for queer actors and audience members, it's really for everyone who participate in his theatre as audience or actor. So he encourages us to face or encounter a feeling of shame on an individual and collective level. This is made possible through the participatory nature of his work, which is inspired by his drama theory of stage. For example in Autospe as he said also it was really interesting for me that one of the trans actor, trans woman actor of this piece, asked the man, especially the man in the public in the audience to put lipsticks on her. So men usually react differently to this form of participation of course because this challenge, their perception of masculinity, femininity and gender norms by putting lipstick on one participate in the disruption of gender norms, at least in this little participation. So not only his theatre is participatory but also doesn't have a fourth valve. It means that there isn't any valve between audience and actors. And most of his piece doesn't follow a pre-written script. Someone is inspired of Antoine Arthur, Augusto Boel, Brecht and so many other directors and authors, but more generally as what I feel is that he's really interested and inspired by the theatre of the oppressed. So, according to Julian Boel, who is the son of the Augusto Boel, Brazilian director who invented this form of theatre name, the theatre of the oppressed in the 17th in Brazil. The theatre of the oppressed exists in more than 80 countries. I don't know if Julian Boel is aware that it exists in Iran by the only someone. Someone inspired of Antoine Arthur, I think I will let him to explain more because of the violence that you felt in his work. And Julian Boel, so regarding the theatre of the oppressed, said that it took a long time for his father, the founder of the theatre of the oppressed, to understand that the theatre of the oppressed works but not for all subjects and for all times. Let me just very briefly give you some elements of this theatre because it can help us to better understand the work of someone else too. In this form of theatre, there isn't any, as I said, there isn't any forceful, so it's up to the oppressed to take charge of their own representation. There is the centre of gravity of a forum theatre, which is not the stage but the audience. So the form of classical theatre are themselves form of operation. Because we have in one side those who are actor and on the other side we have the audience who are sitting all the time in dark and have just the right to upload it at the end of the theatre. And according to Julian Boel, this form of theatre, the theatre of the oppressed is a practice for the revolution but emancipation is a larger process than this. This theatre of the oppressed is just one step or one level. So to wrap up, I want to say that someone is not just an actor in cinema or theatre, but also a social actor. A social actor is an individual who exercises agency, opposed to fix social structures that determine individual or corrective actions. From the viewpoints of action theories that you may know these theories but I don't want to talk about theories because we don't need it. An individual construct and shape their identity, their beings, they work through the choice and variety of ways rather than fixing to prefixed structures. Like for example gender is perceived as a prefixed structure that is assigned to us as birds. So someone as a social actor, not only in his lived experience as a trans man, but also in his theatre disrupts or challenge the power relations and structures. I let someone to develop more these comments, mostly about the violence. I think it's very interesting that he shared with us what are the different reactions of the audience in Tehran, Berlin and Paris to this only present violence in his work. I think after the audience questions. So thank you so much for your attention. I will translate in Farsi for someone and then we will return to your questions in the audience. Saman, I am very pleased that you have included me in this program. I tell you very briefly what I said. I pointed out the two points that you said in the beginning. The challenge that you invite people to you is a shame. And this challenge is only a shame and it is more than a shame for the players, for all the audience that watch this program and feel ashamed. And this shame is not only about the norms or the consequences of gender and gender, but it is even a shame that when I see someone who is not happy, I am allowed to interfere, I have to interfere more. The other point that I said was the joy of the matter. One of the methods is to fight with joy or to make a living with the joy of joy. And for me it is very interesting that this film, which has become very popular, which you have used a lot in the past works that have been done in Brazil, is a reaction of the audience in this film. And I think it is very interesting to talk about it. And with this joy, how did you get involved? Did you make it popular? Did you make me popular? And with that joy, what did I do? And finally I said that you are not just a screenwriter, you are a social screenwriter. This social screenwriter means that your own action is not only about your daily life, but about your own work, your own action. And you shape yourself in the forms of the previous ones. You don't know yourself. And from the beginning this was your challenge, and the challenge that you invite others to. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Salman, do you want to answer the questions of Bahar to me? Salman is going to answer Bahar's question before we address your questions. The very interesting question you asked about the differences in the reactions between the Iranian audiences versus the French and German audiences. Wow, that's really interesting. So in Iran, the reaction would be for the audiences to get engaged and actually beat up and try to stop the person who was being aggressive. However, in France and Germany, whilst they would block the fight, they wouldn't actually themselves engage in violence. For example, in Berlin, the women were trying to stop the person who was being aggressive. And they were trying to stop the person who was being aggressive. And a hundred women were trying to stop the person who was being aggressive. In this very same performance of Be What You Are Not, I actually put a scarf on the men's heads. Oh, this is a very sort of a gendered social reaction. So in Berlin, the man who had a scarf placed on his head stayed with Iran. However, he actively removed the scarf from a female's head. Because of the symbolism. The symbolism is attached to the scarf. Because I don't see it as a symbol of Russia. Someone is not looking in any way, in a symbolic way towards Russia. But it's clear his German male audience felt a bit protective and didn't want to sub-sume or sub-juice the woman. However, it's clear that the man who was being aggressive felt a bit protective and didn't want to sub-sume or sub-juice the woman. However, it's clear that the man who was being aggressive felt a bit protective and didn't want to sub-juice the woman. Basically, that's why he removed the scarf from the female's head. One night, I told the boys that I would like to reduce the fun. I was trying to figure out what is fun and what is action. Do you want to see who wants to do action? Yes, I was surprised that there was a lot of fun. I said that I would like to reduce the fun. Do you understand that there is no fun without action? Yes, of course. Because there was a lot of fun in the night with my brother and sister-in-law. Where was this? In Iran. Yes, that was easy because he did have an incident where once one of his actors was really choked to death in an Iranian theatre. So he realized from then to gauge the audience before actually saying how violent the scenes should be. Yes, that's right. I hope you answered the question. Thank you. So now, if I may, I will move on to the questions that we are receiving from the audience. I guess it's a bit in the question. The first question is from Masih Zekar. The first question from Masih is, is the operation something that allows you freedom or does it actually bring more to bear upon your shoulders? Yes, I will answer. Operation is a choice. Sadly in Iran, the young youth are actually encouraged to have the operations. And that choice is taken from them? Yes, they are forced to do so. Yes, because they don't say no to the children. Usually the issues around birth, your certificates, like your Noggozhan or not passport, but your basically certain certification in the nation of Iran, there is problems about gender. Therefore, so many are encouraged to do this. It is not always clear that it is an actual choice because for your correct paperwork, you must be one or two. You cannot be in the middle. In our society, you have to be either female or male and no other and this is wrong. Why have we been born trans? And the trans youth have to reach enlightenment and understanding themselves. They must believe themselves and love themselves whatever their physical status. Even in my female body form, I always knew myself as a trans man. My physical designation does not establish how I feel about myself. There comes a point where one reaches the conclusion that I want to alter this physical body that I do not appreciate. Before I actually had the operation, I reached a sense of peace. The operation merely was a process. I had already gone through making peace with my situation. Let me see if it was freedom or not. No, I do not look at it that way. I was always free. I did not allow anyone to take our freedom. This is a personal opinion. The more you accept yourself, the more you are able to understand yourself, the more you are able to understand yourself. The more you are able to be a part of your own life. This is a very important part of your life. Because a person is important for his own life. This is when he becomes free. The operations do bring a sense of freedom or they actually create more issues. He is saying for me, it was never the issue. I knew who I was before the jadrahi. The main question is about knowledge of oneself, acceptance of oneself, to feel a sense of self-importance, to find confidence within society. I think for someone it seems the question of before and after the operation are not so much the issue. Because the operation was simply a step. He had already taken the main step which was self-love and self-acceptance. My name is Rick Shassan. The trans actor differs in your film. Do you feel that your experience is different from an artist's experience in films? So, have you found that your experience as a trans artist differs in your film from your theatre work? I am not sure about his question. You are a trans artist. Do you feel that your experience is different from your film and your theatre work? So, the theatre I direct is very much based on gender issues. So, the theatre I direct is very much based on gender issues, not just trans or LGBTQ issues. However, the acting I do in the films, I am bordered with the parts I play. So, if I enjoy the part, that is what matters. The actual, it's in the theatre that I get to express my ideas about gender issues. Let me put it this way, does the Iranian cinema community respond or treat trans artists differently than does the Iranian theatre community? So, does the Iranian cinema community respond or treat trans artists differently than the Iranian theatre community? So, the Iranian cinema community respond or treat trans artists differently than the Iranian theatre community? So, the Iranian cinema community respond or treat trans artists differently than the Iranian theatre community? So, the Iranian cinema community respond or treat trans artists differently than the Iranian theatre community? So, he's saying that unfortunately in both fields he's finding some bad behaviour. Because he's experienced life as a female artist before his operation, even at that point he drew a certain line of respect that people weren't meant to go beyond. He has continued with that and now he does very few jobs. However, it's always understood that people have to toe the line of respect. But generally he finds that the trans community are not really treated with enough respect and not really given enough opportunities in the theatre and film world. One more question, I'm deeply moved by your story and your works. Thank you for sharing. My question is, what are some of your physical body practices that help you feel more at home in yourself, in your skin? Thank you very much, I'm really proud of you. What are the physical and physical practices that help you feel more at home in your skin? I don't feel a sense of ownership towards anything, not even my physical body. I have much more of a sense of ownership over my spirit and soul. To not allow any senses or borders for my spirit. This physical self shall go to the dust. It is what we leave behind, it is your spirit and what that leaves behind and the effects it has on other people as someone he just cited said that it is what we leave behind and other people's experiences of us that matters. That was the answer to that. Based on what I heard, can I conclude that your theatre is both influenced by the theatre of cruelty and the theatre of the oppressed? Could you please speak more about that in dramaturgy and in the way you guide animals? Let's talk about your theatre, the theatre of pleasure and the effects it has on other people as well as the effects of oppression. I have something to say to Bahar, what is the name of the director of the theatre? He is the Brazilian director of the theatre of the oppressed. The theatre of pleasure and the effects it has on other people as well as the effects it has on other people as well as the effects of oppression. We have no written script ever. We have no written script ever. So we have no script, everything comes through the rehearsal and the workshop and often what you hear in the script is verbatim what has already been said in real life. She is a zendige, ask her name here and salakon. So often what the script when it does come to be is made up of conversations that were had in real life and we bring them to the theatre. There is never a time when it's all rehearsed, scripted and they just say it out loud. It comes from a real place, real emotions, it comes out during the workshops and rehearsals then it becomes part of the play. He believes that this kind of theatre where you watch something unrealistic taking place on stage without any connections with it and just simply the viewer without relating directly with it he finds to be a useless form of theatre. And now the way it has to be is that theatre has to throw a light and shine a light on things that are not seen and literally force people to face these realities. Okay, and that's so by the way, ladies and gentlemen, I must say that we are getting so many questions and because we're rather limited with time we have to finish in about 24 minutes forgive me if I don't get all your questions in. Akhi will be providing emails for the panelists, the discussion, everybody so you can get in touch with us if you have any questions that we weren't able to address. Okay, a question for me here from Azadi. This is Paula Rivetti says thank you for your wonderful work. Dr. Arastu did it, so I'm going to ask this question directly from Paula Rivetti from Dr. Azadi. How do feminist movements in Iran integrate trans people, their experiences of oppression and demands? This is a very, very, very important question that unfortunately in Iran we are. I didn't really did research on this topic but for my PhD I search a lot to see how feminism in Iran have integrated the question of trans people and unfortunately there isn't any integration or mixture of the of this topic into the feminism and we can sell different reasons for that but I think one of the reasons in that maybe the feminist, the real active feminist in Iran, there isn't a lot of people from the community of LGBT or queer people and that they don't pay really attention and the most important question for feminists in Iran are the questions of inequality between men and women and the question of gender which is the very important question isn't really integrated with an approach to trans people. So this is my answer. Thank you very much. Let's go to another question. Please feel free to help me out with the visual of the visa back. I think I'm completely okay. I'm completely unfamiliar with your work. Forgive me if my questions are inappropriate. It seems that the violence weaves together themes of state violence, family violence and violence against queer and transgender people. It also seems that there's an interrogation of sader masochism chosen freely among them between participants. Do you see what's going on? You see, I think I work with the knowledge of this type of work. That happiness comes from the time that I want. There's a place where I want happiness. There's a place where I get rid of myself, where I don't have any shame, where I get rid of myself. And for me, it has become a sin. It has become a sin for me. That's right. So I believe that violence happens when I want it, when I want happiness. That's right. It's a time when violence can be anything. At the point, anyone can be the victim or the perpetrator. The perpetrator comes and takes Ghorbani. You know, when you basically take victim. Ghorbani means more than victim. It's almost like a symbol of victimhood. When they say cut your child's head, sacrifice. It means sacrifice. They choose a sacrificial lamb. That's right. It's a person who comes and takes sacrifice. What happens after that, Saman? Women, women, men, and all LGBT people, must be put in a place where they can be themselves. And they have the right to sacrifice themselves. Nobody has the right to do it. So trans females, trans males, and the LGBT must reach more self-understanding and understand that no one is going to give them their rights. It is up to them to actually fight for their rights. And as Dr Azadi just mentioned, even feminist studies do not include them. It's about finding trans voices and actively making sure we have. The people I reach are the ordinary people, people who seek knowledge, but whose hands are tied and can't find it in multiple places. Okay, so the work that you see is really a social study. It's an ethnographic social study of what's going on. It looks at the aggression within the political system, within the family system. But most importantly, it first and foremost looks at the harm and the issues that one brings onto oneself. So it's me and myself first, and then the state and family and society at large. We must one by one seek to understand more and learn more. And it is then that we will find the independence that humans need to have. I hope that answers some of your questions, Colette. I'm just trying to make sure that I include as many as I can. And how I understand the danger. How about shifting? I don't know how they play out in Iran. Okay, there's a Christina Rostampoul. Someone joined him with the thank you very much for sharing your story with us, etc. You mentioned how in Iran, the only gender identities are allowed on male and female. And other gender identities are not accepted. Could you please speak some about the behaviour of practices you observed in Iran, where non-binary artists or other gender non-conforming people were pushed to choose a gender identity they didn't identify with. Artists who are non-binary and non-gender nonconforming people are pushed to choose a gender identity they didn't identify with. So in Iran, yes, you have to be either male or female, but actually the artistic community is one of the most old fashioned and undeveloped sectors of our community. Because they are afar from the people. They don't see the people. They are unfortunately seeing the wrong things, they are looking for fame, followers and so forth. So he's aware of a large sector of the LGBT community, lesbians, gays, trans who are actually excluded from work. This is not the people who can take the blame. It is actually the uneducated artistic community of Iran who should take some of this responsibility. It has become like the artistic community in Iran has become like a garage where everyone can park up inside. This question is very interesting. She says that in America, this is a choking scene where a woman and a man are talking. She says that this incident had a fresh beginning. And a lot of people are making it so that the police can take the people and tell them not to do this. And the boss says that this is my fault, this is my fault. I think it's really important to let her say that she's actually aware of a scene in her own town in the US where a group of men were prevented police from protecting a woman who was being choked. So basically it's interesting. It's very interesting that there is a total scenario of oppression to Iran, and there is a trans and there is a situation as such happening in America. Collette wants to know how can I learn more and view more of this theater? We have now handed over some of our theater recordings to schools in Australia and Canada for the idea of actually disseminating this theater online. So all the information relating to someone's work and things that may be upcoming and forthcoming, you'll find on his Instagram and on his website. So he said that he's reachable via all these platforms and he can help anybody with issues that they raise with him there. Thank you very much for your interesting talk. In reference to theater of cruelty, the references you made and your inclusion of violence on stage in an ideal theatrical world. This is an end goal to show the violent experience of being transgender in Iran or to invite the audience to dissent and protest the system of oppression, even through violence if necessary. This is an end goal to show the violent experience of being transgender in Iran or to invite the audience to dissent and protest the system of oppression. This is an end goal to show the violent experience of being transgender in Iran or to invite the audience to dissent and protest the system of oppression. So first of all, there is no end goal to his theater. When one ends, the other begins. There have been performances at which the audience haven't left sitting there expecting something more to happen. And he says we practice resistance in our theater practice, which is a really important point. So the very actual creating of this theater work is itself a form of resistance. Do you have anything else to add? I don't have anything else to add, if you don't have anything else to add. Yes, we are from Madadpur. Yes, a question for you dear viewers. Yes, there is a connection and cooperation between the Tajasumi and Tiaat in this work. Is there some relationship between visual arts and theater arts in your work? The visual arts can be really, really productive and useful for the work in theater, and I would love to bring more of it in. But you are saying that you didn't have it? No, because I didn't have it in the past. Till now there has been nothing. Now I have a question for you dear viewers. Let me use it a little bit. Let's see, now we have a discussion on this issue of water. For example, there is a person who is a great Tatek, a great film director in England, named Mr. Russell T. Davis. He came and said that he only wanted to show Hamjenskera on television. On the other hand, we had a series of films. We saw that a man named Eric Anderson, who is the director of Awards Watch, said that he saw a show called James Corden. He saw that when he saw Hamjenskera on television, he didn't want to use the word. He really went to Alaki. This is a really big issue. Especially when it comes to the transgender community. It has a different meaning. It's a story. Because I told Mr. Russell T. Davis that if he only wants to play Hamjenskera, he doesn't want to allow Hamjenskera to be a heterosexual. You know what I mean? They only want to help. So I just wanted to say that you all have a very important role in this key, cure-representable corner on stage and on screen. I'm just bringing to his mind. Russell T. Davis, who did, it's a simple HBO TV series, has actually come out saying, I want only gay performers should play gay characters. And then we also had awards watch Eric Anderson rightly saying Jane pointing out how absolutely disturbing as he calls it gay face James Corden's performance was. So these issues that are coming out around who gets to represent who on the stage and theater and on cinema, because I think it's a bit reductive some of this because if I suppose if Russell Davis says only gay can play gay, then I suppose no gay can play straight. And that wouldn't work for me. I think we should be more open than that. But I just wanted to broaden that and ask someone, what about the trans theater? What does he believe about who has the right to represent trans on stage and screen? So who has the right to represent trans on stage and screen, in your opinion? In my opinion. The time when the girl's film was made, which was not a good one, actually, because the person who played the role of a trans and had the right to represent his life was not trans. So the film Denmark girl, which had a non trans character playing a trans, that's one of the examples he's going to talk about. She played a part. She didn't live apart. So whereas if he had played, if she played a part as a physician, physicist or a mathematician, she was playing the part of that. She could live it as well. This is different. She can pretend to be a physicist, but you can't really pretend to be trans. It doesn't always have to be trans. When you see a trans person playing a trans, you have absolute full belief in what they are representing, because they are representing what they are. They are not representing another representation. So he said, if I dressed you up as your husband and asked you to act as a man, you would only... But baby, is that not all of acting? Because I think this is a really important debate. If the whole thing is not acting, that I will go one day, one day, and I will go one day, I will go one day. Can I have all of these beings? If this is not acting? It is. But we have the language. We have the language of language. We have the language of gender. We have the language of gender. And many families have the language of language. Any of them have the language of language? I wouldn't huff to talk about it. Maybe even when you are being involved in the project, you feel there is being wrong or if it is being wrong. Anyway, that is a different aspect and maybe it is not being wrong like the Ayaz for more people. But it is not being wrong. So this is different. Either it is being right or it is being wrong. And there is no normal life in the most playful and playful way. But when a person chooses a question, his life is very normal. We know very well. Okay. So, in your opinion, you have to play gay, gay, trans... Exactly. Okay, one more question. Okay, now, I want to play a straight, straight, straight woman. Do you have anything to say to me? I can't do this. Or I'm a trans woman and I want to play a trans woman who has three children. It's very difficult to play. Okay. Because I've just returned the flip ram. Because he's absolutely for the idea that there is a certain reality and authenticity to the LGBT community performing parts within as LGBT characters. But I just asked him the question, what if I was a bisexual woman and asked to play a straight role? Or a gay woman and asked to play a straight role with three children. Does that mean as an actress I can't get that job? I think this is a really important debate that we don't have much more time for. But it's not finished between me and someone because I'm not in agreement with you. It's a really important debate and our time is up. What do you say about the Bahar? Bahar, what do you say? I agree with someone because I think that when we use the real trans person to acting in a film, they are acting their authentic body. That means that they show a form of realistic. They are not in the cliché of trans woman that cinema and media project. They are the real trans person that they are in different forms, different identities, different form of representing their gender. So I think that it is very important. And the other side is that we should give them this opportunity to perform as a trans person because they should be there not only because of showing the reality of being a trans but also to distracting this cliché, this cliché of giving an ideal type of trans. I must say, when it comes to trans, I accept that it is more trans than trans. But when it comes to lesbians and gays, I don't agree with that. Because on the other hand, you are a trans person now. If you want to take a part of the human being, you shouldn't do that. If someone says, no, you can't be trans in your life. And the person who is trans can understand the human identity. One of the reasons that I agree with this is that the trans experience is so particular that it's only fair to allow this to be expressed. But I really believe with the rest of the LGBTQ community, this actually closes their arms. Because if saying that as a gay woman, you don't understand what it's like to have a straight life. Because that's what you're saying when you say as a straight person, you don't know what a gay life is. One of the reasons that when you say to a gay person, you can be better than them, is that you can't be a non-binary person from that side of the sex. It's heterosexual. One thing I want to say is that I was born in Baghegara. And I work in Baghegara, in the cinema. Because my films that I make with Baghegara, maybe I look at it from the top, that this difference has been made. A homosexual can play a woman, a homosexual can play a woman who is not a homosexual. But it's very difficult for someone to understand this. But it's very difficult for a person to understand this. I can make a person who is not a homosexual, a gay person who really wants to go to a gay person. And I can respect myself for that. And I can't make a person who is not a gay person who is not a gay person. But if you, now, are a homosexual, and someone comes to work with us and says, you have understood this well, go to the market, eat, drink, and so on. But you didn't come to the world. I didn't come, I didn't come to the world. But no one is allowed to come to the world. Yes, but no one is allowed to come to the world. You have to come. You can be in the film, in the film, in the city, you can come to the film, you can come to the film. I have to think a lot about this. I have to do a lot about this. I do a lot of thinking. When I talk about something, I kill myself. Then I think, I am deaf when I talk about it. I am a person. Okay. We have just had an incident regarding the rights of everybody to be everybody that they can come to work with. everybody that they can be but someone was saying look it actually isn't because I said to him no one should stop you playing a soldier he said they didn't but I had to work really hard to make myself a male hero soldier because I was born a trans man I am still a trans man and on that note I'd like to thank Farsi Baharjan, Mersi Komadi, Akijan, thank you for always looking after us and someone are also very very grateful for your work. She is hoping that the day will come when all the poetry will turn into actual knowledge so basically shawar is all the words people say will in really will actually have a result in an outcome and then ladies and gentlemen just to say any questions you have you can address to someone directly via his Instagram and via his website Bahar Azadi we've given her email at before maybe Aki will be kind enough to quickly provide our emails before we go and the program will be available on Facebook and on YouTube at a later date. So Kodafes, you are in a book on imbacca? Kodafes, Kodafes, Kodafes, Kodafes, Kodafes, thank you so much for doing it, Kodafes, Kodafes, Kodafes and sorry again to all of you who we didn't get to ask the questions of but thank you for joining us. Kodafes, Kodane Gata.