 I was getting a little concerned here. It's like one minute, I thought, uh-oh. Now people usually come after. I'm usually here a minute or two before. Yeah, yeah. So, what have you been up to lately? I actually wanted to ask you that question. It's more interesting because I don't really know you other than I've had one experience with you that I really got the sense that, I don't, not professionally speaking, but internally I got the sense that you were very creative and into the idea of writing and that interests me because that's my interest. All right, well, I will tell you and Gil a very crazy idea that I got about three days ago. That's why I'm here, John. Okay. And I may have to tell the story again, so you're gonna hear it more than once, but you know, I've been really, there's so many upsetting things in the world, right? I mean, you know, climate, you know, we could just go on forever with just that. But what was happening in Afghanistan was really bothering me in a, in a both human tragedy way and also in a kind of a, if you will, literary way in the sense that, okay, here's the Taliban again, you know, they're back. You know, you've spent all his money dealing with, they're back and they're not just back, but they're like way back. Like they're trying to set things back to 700, roughly, you know, in terms of their concept of what a good society is, what a Muslim society is. And I just happened to know, because I read parts of it, there's a Solomon Rushdie book, I think it's called The Princess of Florence. And it's fictional, but it's got a lot of factual material in it about Akbar the Great. Akbar the Great was a Mughal or Muslim leader of India around the 1500s. And unlike, you know, very much unlike the Taliban, he went out of his way to say, hey, you know, listen, Hindus, you wanna have a ceremony? Fine, Christians, you know, that's okay, that's okay. But in fact, I like debates. I'd like to have debates in my kingdom, you know, so that we have, you know, multiple points of view and, and of course we're gonna have dance and music. I mean, who would take that away? Right? When is this? 1465 to 15, something or other. Okay. Roughly corresponding to Renaissance Florence, because there's a weird connection between the two. You know, it's Solomon Rushdie. So he's got weird mystical elements like Akbar has a mystical mistress in addition to his physical ones. He has an imaginary mistress. However, when he wakes up in the morning, he has scratches on his back from having made love to his mystical mistress. And, you know, he's deliberately playing with your mind. And he's kind of like, you know, well, is it real? Is it, you know, blah, blah, blah. And you know, I said, okay, look, this is the guy. If you're gonna bring somebody back who's gonna be a wake up call to the Taliban, it's Akbar. After all, his father or his grandfather established a Muslim center in Kabul, right? And now his own background is kind of mixed. It's more Persian than it is Pashtun. But I mean, clearly he was cosmopolitan in his outlook and his, you know, his attitude toward ethnicity. So, you know, you do it as a fantasy thing. You just say, okay, here he is. He's back. And then I thought, let's make it a little more interesting. Let's have a, it's ambiguous, whether it's an actual visit from a dead Muslim leader or it's a very high tech conspiracy by some very smart Sufi technologists who are in Pakistan. So I have him, you know, he kind of appears, there's a little shimmer over near the window in the Taliban meeting and this guy appears and he says, you know, congratulations. You've, you know, Kabul is now, you know, it's under Muslim control, which is good. But, you know, I think the idea you have of what that means is just not going to work, you know? And he kind of opens up a little portal and he shows them some scenes from 1490 India, which there's dancing and there's women not all completely covered up. And of course the Taliban, he says, well, I'm going to give you some time to think about this. I'm going to be back in a couple of days and here's what I want you to do. You'll notice you've got a bunch of burqas over here in this little closet. And I know that you can't, if you put on a burqa and you pretend to be a woman, you can't go out alone. So you're going to be divided up into threes and you're going to have a little assignment to go out into Afghanistan. Two burqa covered Taliban men and one Taliban man as the person who you have to have. You have to have a man with you. And he sends them out to like a birth clinic and he sends them out to these places where they're going to encounter the prejudice against women and the cruelty. And if they come out of, you know, if they reveal who they are, that's a big embarrassment. They're not going to want to do that. And I imagine that there's like at least one, maybe two, who are so resistant to this idea that they just won't go along with it. And I'm debating in my own mind whether they would get an involuntary stealth dose of hormones type you would take if you were transitioning from male to female. I don't know. That's a pretty, a lot of people draw the line at that. No, no, no, don't do that. Don't do that. I'm just, I'm still, you know, in only a couple of days I've had this idea. I'm working out the, working out the plot and the details. But also I realized I got to do a lot of work. I mean, I've got to contact not only practicing Muslims but probably Muslim scholar. Fortunately, there's a good one at Berkeley who knows this period of Indian history. John, is this a novel or a movie treatment? I think it's a short story because I'd like to get it out fast. Yeah. And it'd be great if it was a movie. And I don't want it to, it could easily turn into a novel and I don't want that. I mean, I'm working on a novel and it's, it's long. It's a long, long, I don't want to, you know, put that one aside, get this thing out even if it's sloppy because it's very timely. You know, and it'll stir up discussion. It might get me a fatwa. So I got to be a little careful. There's always that risk. But you know, all of us earn fatwas all the time. The only concern I have with your story is that if this guy showed up, they would probably do to him what some Christians would do to Jesus if he showed up. Well, he doesn't really show up. He appears as a hologram. And they start looking for the projectors, but they can't find the projectors. So they're not sure. You know, he shows up as a wavy, non, you know, immaterial thing. And he claims that he's a spirit and they say, well, yeah, right, spirit. And they start looking for the projectors, but they can't find them because the Sufi technologists, well, we're gonna leave it open, you know, as long as you can, you keep it open. Is he a spiritual being or are there Sufi technologists? You don't reveal that that's who's actually behind it until close to the end. I just figured OGM is behind it. Yeah, it would be an interesting OGM project, a little bit more aggressive than what we're typically up for. I'm time's call for bold actions. So anyway, those of you who came in late or came in early on time actually, and you wonder what and the heck crazy thing you stumbled into. This is an idea I have for a short story or as Gil suggests, maybe a film treatment on the Taliban encountering a figure of Akbar the Great who was a leader of Muslim India around 1500 and was very open-minded, gotten in trouble actually for encouraging debate, encouraging diversity and all those things. So that's kind of like my check-in. John, it may be a distraction, it may be helpful, but you might want to look around in 12th century Spain in the Golden Age in the Kordoba world. There was also a very advanced open, Muslims, Christians, Jews, planned together enormous intellectual artistic development. I don't know what the relation of that to the India guy was, but it's an echo of a similar kind of time that you're writing about. So probably on the one hand, a better example as in closer to what we would identify with as a true cosmopolitan. The thing about Akbar is he passes the test of Muslim hero, because he conquered India. They'd know him not messing around with this guy. But as a conqueror, he thought it was important to preserve cultural diversity. That's the weird mix that means he's a candidate to show up for the Taliban as their coach. Yeah, okay. So anyhow, that's my crazy idea and my check-in and welcome everyone and thank you for showing up. Even if you didn't know that Jerry wasn't gonna be here, but if you didn't, now you know, Jerry asked me to step in. So we can do our standard kind of check-in and go around in order, but maybe first is there like a pressing issue, not the Taliban in Kabul. Is there an issue that's so hot or so messy and significant and anybody would like to bring it up for general conversation before we start doing the check-ins? I wouldn't know where to start. Yeah, that's true. That's true. There are so many. I just give it a second. There's a cat, you know. Okay, well, we could just, if anybody wants to go, wants to volunteer, you can let me know. Otherwise, I could go in order and actually on my screen, Stacey, you are first. You can pass if you want somebody else to go first, but what do you think? Well, I'll just say on a parallel note to what you were talking about, because I think we're all thinking about the state of the world, but with Afghanistan in general, I had just been thinking about the idea of Pashti musicians, sort of priming population. So it sort of reminds me of what you're, it's in the same direction of how can we use art to sort of change things a little bit. That was it. Humanize it. Okay, great. Pashti musicians just kind of start playing in defiance of the rules. Something like that. Okay, going on my screen, next person would be Gil. Good morning. Good morning. The main thing that I think about Afghanistan these days is that it's out of our hands. Yeah. We will have no influence on what happens there. I don't know who will have influence on Pakistan. I don't know who will. Given what a small minority Pashtun are of the whole population, I don't imagine it's gonna be very stable. Right, right. And yeah, and so like the mental cascades that come from that are kind of scary. Where to start? Let me start here. I've been, I've been reading in a group of book called Before European Hegemony by Janet Abu-Lagod. Written in 1989 and it's a window into 1250 to 1350. So for the rise of Europe. And a very substantial global system of the time with trade between Europe and the Middle East and China and India, rich trade routes, significant cultural differences, window into the episodic rise and fall but kind of advance and retreat of China, which is in certain periods very engaged in the world and in certain periods withdrawn from the world. They're building an elaborate trade network. They have a Navy at one point of like 3000 ocean going ships, some of which are big enough to hold up Nina, the Nina of the Pinta in the South of Maria on the deck of one of these ships. And so they're this formidable force. And at some point they pull back because the Confucian perspective that trade is just like indecent. And so you have this and you know, and the Muslim world is trading with Europe but sees Europe as pretty backward and uninteresting culturally. We're talking about feudal Europe of the Middle Ages, pre-Renaissance. And so it's a picture, it's kind of a view into the contingencies of history. How what we take for granted is a possible world that might not have been this way had China not withdrawn, had certain differences played out between the Middle East and Europe. At one point they moved from trading through Venice and Genoa to the Champagne fairs of Central and Eastern France to going out past the Straits of Gibraltar and coming up to Bruges in Belgium from the Atlantic and picking up the textile trade from there. And therefore the French inner cities just sort of declined. So for me, it's sort of an exploration of the, how to say this, the non-inevitability of the world that we take for granted. The contingency. The contingency, well, first of all is the rise of the West in the what 16th century and the growing domination of Europe and the emergence of the extractive colonial empires of the West, Portugal, Spain, England, Netherlands, United States in contrast to the more Mughal style empires of the East or in many variations of that. And the dominant mood for me is that the past, you know what, 50, 700 years, 72 of which I have lived that I take for granted as this period of progress in human history, increasing globalization, increasing inclusion, increasing justice, one might argue, increasing awareness, which I've always lived in with the assumption that it's a trend that will continue. I now more and more understanding that it's a trend in the midst of lots of trends that go up and down and up and down over the centuries and the eons. And so it's a much more sober perspective on where we are now, both less confident but also strangely a little bit less fraught, you know, that things may decline in relation to our values and moods right now, but they have done that before and they have risen and fallen and risen and fallen. And so sort of my perspective on change is broadening into larger timescapes and on a good day that helps me be more serene in the face of all the turmoil, not disinterested, not disconnected but a little less answering. On a bad day, I'm full of terror. Yeah, and, you know, with climate the most direct example of that, creeping fascism, you know, being the other more direct example of that. And in particular in relation to climate, and this is a bridge to what Klaus may talk about, let me say this a different way. I'm finding that as the ideas that many of us have been working to advance for decades start to get more and more acceptance into the mainstream or at least recognition in the mainstream. I mean, climate issue, which we were being laughed at 20, 30 years ago is now on the table in every organization in the world. I'm more and more aware of the inadequacies of the views that we have been selling and want to have better words. So now we have people saying climate is the existential issue of humanity right now. And I think, well, wait a minute, actually not. It's critical, but behind that you have the collapse of ecosystems and by the soil systems and hydrological systems which people aren't even thinking about for the most part. And it's of course connected to the climate story but I'm sort of, you know, in this mode of now peeling the layers and wondering in a very specific way how I talk to my clients. And what do I say? Do I say, great, you're doing ESG? Or do I say ESG is bullshit? You need to be looking here. And I had a first test of that yesterday. I did at 4.55 a.m. yesterday did the closing keynote of an ESG summit in Mumbai for the CII, the Conference of Indian Industries which are jumping on the climate ESG bandwagon in what appears to be a pretty significant way. And I raised this challenge there about, you know, open the curtain to climate and see the rest of the stack of the mess that's there. And so I'm in the question of just how to think about that, how to speak about that, how to engage people on that, what to offer in my professional face to the companies and governments and so forth that I work with. How to, I've been sort of, I've been, I'm sorry, I guess this is long but let me just say one more thing, I apologize for the length but you've sort of, it's triggered a role here. I've been looking a lot at the offers that I make in the world and I'm experimenting out with the notion that everybody knows the term trim tab here, right? I'm experimenting with the notion that my role now may be to be a trim tab to trim tabs. Right. To work with and coach people who have that role in the world of being trim tabs in their world and maybe there's something I can bring to them to help move the game forward just a little bit. So that's my check-in. Thank you. Thank you for listening. Just real quick, I'm reading this book called Sand Talk and the author talks about us as second people or second nations, you know, it takes the term that's used in Canada and Australia, first nations for indigenous. He's, well, then all you other people are second nations. All of you arrived, there was somebody else there and you kind of shoved them aside. So it's kind of like, okay, yeah, you got a point there, you got a point there. They also look at history much more cyclically Okay, thank you for that. Now there is some kind of a clicking going on. I stopped my mic just to see if that, here it now, possibly it was Gil. Anyway. It says they're clicking now. Yeah, it came back. Oh really? Yeah, okay. Well, it was worth it to hear what you had to say Gil. Anyway, thank you and mute is fine. Does anyone, we got a small group here. Does anyone want to volunteer to go next or shall I just pick someone? Well, I'll go to volunteer to go next even though I haven't figured out what I'm gonna talk about. It seems to me that with climate change and all the efforts around it, most people are hoping for something that would be an add-on to where we are that would take us to a slightly better world. But in fact, we're probably gonna go through some really rough spots. And the future looks much more like a game of go or chess if you don't know go with lots of players going in different directions. It's hard to coordinate across all our pawns as to what we're gonna do. I'm pretty convinced that the key issue in my mind is how to get the leverage to open up the oil companies to stop exploration, to stop pumping, to stop selling. And then the way society copes with the fallout from that because there are gonna be a lot of people who are hurt and we need a new kind of welfare system to cope with the people who are dislodged by what are necessary moves. Now the question is, how do you get those necessary moves? So I've been playing around with scenarios. I'm not happy with any of them, but here's one. That middle managers and organizations all over the world start talking to their bosses, the CEOs about the need to do something. And the energy behind that gets to the point where a few CEOs step forward and say, we've got to really do things differently and we've got to organize to stop the oil companies. So if you've got a handful of leaders from different organizations willing to coordinate and to lead a policy that looks a little bit like General Motors going into World War II to reformulate all of our production strategies. And it would take a lot of moxie to force people to do the changes that are necessary. But we've got to do that. And the only way to do it is to have a leadership team that's willing to take on that task. And I don't think it's very likely that it will happen and we'll probably just keep dribbling on towards disaster. Anyway, that's my thinking. Okay, thank you, Doug. Quick question. I noticed it's a very much of a supply side question, meaning let's get the suppliers of the bad energy to change their behavior. And I'm guessing that you know about that and that's intentional, but less hope for the demand side, iron air batteries. I mean, there's a whole bunch of things, changing utilities, changing... I think all those things are too slow. And that the demand side is where the... There's a lot of momentum behind the current demand structure that we have that's harder to change because it's individuals who at the local level don't see any way to change. Okay. Thank you. Anybody want to go next? Okay, you're gonna come back in, Gil. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, I wanna react to what Doug said, if I may. Doug, thank you for this. I think it's very important. Speaking of CEOs and transitions, Paul Pullman, former CEO of Unilever has been one of the leaders in corporate sustainability for the past decade or so, has a book coming out this in the next few weeks with Andrew Winston that will be speaking to this. That may be worth a look. More on point, a colleague of mine in Houston is organizing what's probably the first ever gathering of chief sustainability officers in the oil and gas industry in Houston, which is of course, that's what that city is. She was subscribed, the gathering is oversubscribed. There's a normal amount of eagerness to it. This is the middle managers, if you will, that you're talking about. We, I suspect that we may have an opening with her from that to talk with and potentially work with some oil and gas companies. Not sure if we should, I'm not sure. I don't wanna do lipstick on a pig bullshit, but if there's an opportunity to talk transition that may be worth doing. And if that develops, I'd like to talk with you about bringing that scenario work live into that room. I mean, not in the room with the gathering of all the CSOs but in engagements with some of those companies. So I think you're right, that's one of the ways to get their heads to move around it. I don't think welfare should be enough here. I think it's gonna take some hammers because these guys are looking at stranded assets and you can do two things with stranded assets. You can run them down as long as possible until they fall off the cliff or you can strand them yourself and flip your business, both of which are very difficult strategies. They're obviously playing the first right now. But it's dicey territory, but I'd love to talk a few more about the scenario strategies with these guys. The deal. Okay. It's a scary deal, but it needs to be done. Yeah, also to Doug's comment, the issue that politicians are dealing with here is increasing the cost to the base of pyramid borders, right? And so the European Union has the same issue really and the organization or the NGO that I'm working with, Citizen Climate Lobby has been proposing the Energy Innovations and Carbon Dividend Act. So they would take the revenue stream coming from this carbon tax and pay it back out in form of a dividend which has the impact of a guaranteed minimum income because there has been this idea floating of creating a minimum income for everyone. So you have a baseline for people to participate in the economy. And so that is probably the way to go forward. It's right now in the reconciliation package being negotiated in Congress. So there already, I mean, there is a carbon tax coming in for sure, but they're talking about exempting unleaded fuel because they are worried about the water backlash to increase oil, I mean, gasoline. But the discarbon fee and dividend is probably the most practical way to move forward here from a voting perspective, yeah, that. Yeah, it is an issue to me with the carbon tax and the rebate is if we give rebate money to poor people with low incomes, aren't they gonna spend it on energy? Well, that is an argument, but maybe yes, maybe no. I mean, chances are that statistically the low income sector may not even have a car, right? I mean, so they're spending patterns much, much less on energy than upper income levels. So there is going to be a disproportionate impact. The higher income people will pay more into the tax pool than low income people because we consume more. We have, my gosh, I have three cars in the garage, now we have the air condition running and all of those things that the base of economy doesn't have. So they will get a disproportionate higher share of this carbon revenue than anyone else. So I posted our website in the link here and if you read through it as spoodles of statistics and this has been embraced by over a hundred economists around, I mean, the best Nobel Prize winning economists and people working in this field as the most palatable solution. Well, I worry that, I mean, I think that the poor in the US live in houses where air conditioning and heating are a major deal. And with increased temperatures, the amount of spending on air conditioning is going to increase. And what I see is the oil companies are trying to encourage us to go in that direction. We had to deal with health. We've got to work on making the interiors of our habitation successful at dealing with too much heat and too much cold. And that's going to take energy. So the oil companies are going to argue that we've got to keep pumping in order to maintain the health of the civil population. Now they may do that, but then of course this runs concurrently with innovations in the energy sector. But for example, in my sector, in food and agriculture, the number one cost input into the farm is synthetic nitrogen fertilizer which is made with natural gas and pesticides made from oil. So by increasing and agriculture contributes 24% of emissions, which is equal to the electricity sector. In fact, I'm going to post in a moment a new release from Project Rodin where they make the space case. So by increasing the cost to the farmer, they will push the sector out of using synthetic nitrogen fertilizer, which is a disaster on so many levels. So this pricing will have an impact. And I think we can't just focus on the energy sector because as I'm saying, the same impact is caused by the agricultural sector. A weird data point. I don't know if any of you have spent any time in Alaska, but I did 10 or more years ago, I taught some workshops and it was weird. I mean, it felt weird. And I was trying to get, what's the weirdness here? And it was a kind of a, it was that oil subsidy. It was the fact that you could go to a best Westerner holiday and they would have a free beer happy hour and there'd be a lot of pickup trucks because everybody was getting four or 5,000 a year from the oil dividend. And I'm not sure. It's probably a very messy data source. You wouldn't want to draw too much on it, but I just, just my subjective impression was leaning a little bit more towards Doug's view in that it looked to me like a lot of happy folks with pickup trucks. They're analysts who say that the subsidies to the fossil fuel industry exceed the defense budget, which itself is double the supposedly excessive Biden infrastructure package. And so, you know, economically, you can't justify the subsidies. You can justify them from political power, which is how the fossil fuel industry maintains itself. The cycle of money from taxpayers to the oil companies back to the Congress people who vote the subsidies. And so that's the loop. And that's what's got to be broken. We've got to kill the subsidies. Yeah. And the, and that's not something that the fossil industry will volunteer to do. But politically that's a critical piece of the story that both Doug and Klaus are telling. Yeah. And, you know, arguably you can, you can play the capitalism card and say this is massively distorting the functions of the market. It's making capitalism not work, blah, blah, blah. You can go that way with it or a number of other ways, but that's, that's got to be a critical piece of the strategy just to take those out. Because the, you know, the, the guys at the pickup trucks in Alaska, they're getting dividends from the profits. The profits are subsidized. You know, you and I are paying for them filling their tax. Right. Right. Okay. We have a couple of people we have not yet heard from anybody want to step forward or shall I just pick someone. I just want to ask the question. Coming from a beginner's mind. Are there any subsidies to get the farmers to not use. The oil, the, the, the pesticides and stuff like that. I mean, if it were presented to the American public, which is now ready to fight anybody and they do care about health and things like that. Would there be a way to show the money that's being used right now to subsidize the oil company, what we could do with that money if we diverted it to farmers to not use those things that are bad for our health anyway. I mean, I do my check in next because that's really on, on what I wanted to talk about. So we, we, we did our webinar on farm to fork community food systems. Now we had 1,000, 200, 1,254 people registered for this thing. We had over a hundred staffers from, from legislative offices participate. So it was, it was really, and it was mostly LinkedIn, our professional people from Europe, from Africa, Australia and so on. So it was, it was good. It was a good discussion. Yeah. The, the, there is no top down solution, you know, for agriculture. The, the, it has to be community based bottom up. But the, my next focus now is on the farm bill. I just launched a team with the Sierra Club and within the business climate leaders to focus on farm bill 2022. Because the, the farm bill in complexity and size equals the defense bill. It's amazing how, how many billion last year commodity grows in the US through 40% of their income from government subsidies. But then the commodity course, of course, are the ones that are so destructive in the impact on, on nature. So besides a carbon tax that would increase the cost of fertilizer, of the synthetic nitrogen fertilizer. There are, there are other subsidies such as what they call crop insurance, right? So a farmer basically can't go anything without, in the commodity area, which is now soy and wheat and corn and so on. Without having the, the insurance from the government. So they're guaranteed a price, a base price. And if, if the market drops then the government will pick up the difference. But the way this crop insurance is formulated, it forces them to grow a specific type of crop. So the idea that they can rotate their crop, for example, and put a cover crop on it, which you need to do in order to restore nutrients back into the soil. It's not, they don't allow the farmer to do that. It's the most perverted, insane incentive system you've ever seen. The other thing is that the majority of the money actually goes to food subsidies. So food stamps, for example, child nutrition programs, school nutrition programs and so on. And the, and what they are pushing into, into these systems is junk food. I mean, it's all the processed food from, from, from the industry instead of using that money. And these are talking about hundreds of billions of dollars instead of using this money and allocating it to local source food, to fresh food and so on. It goes to, you know, pizza is a vegetable kind of thing. So the farm bill requires major, major reforms. And that's similar to the energy sector, you know, where you have these massive subsidies popping up in industry that we want to see basically faded, fade out of existence. And so agriculture is very much the same thing. So, so what, and then coming to personal pitch here, what I'm realizing is, you know, as I'm going into working with these NGOs, what we don't have is tech support. I mean, I mean, I have to work really hard, you know, to get the advertising out and to get the messaging out, particularly into social media. The majority of our registrations came through LinkedIn. But I mean, the, the, the, I don't know how to use Twitter or Instagram and all this. I'm just not that proficient in it. So we really need social media support and we need tech support to, to put that out. And if you think about the reach of a Sarah Club, we have four million members in there. And we have over 200,000 members at Citizen Climate Lobby, which are interacting, actively engaged with the political process because we train them to become citizen lobbyists, right? To call their senator, call their legislator and so on. If we could have media support here, our reach could just explode. And so one comment I made in the, or that sort of came out in the conversation in the webinar a couple of days ago was Sophie, you know, the young lady has been a founding member of the Menus of Change Initiative with Harvard University and the Culinary Institute of America. And we started talking about children, right? Young people. And I'm just mentioning that, you know, we need to activate the greater Thunberg generation because these guys are so on fire, but they're shooting planks. I mean, they don't really have traction impacting this vital part of the economy. And she was saying, when you look at young people, they are high up on, we have to engage with climate change, but they don't make the link between the food you put in your mouth is contributing to climate change, right? And you could change that. So to educate this sector of the population requires social media intervention, particularly in channels that I don't even know exist, right? Because they're talking on platforms that I'm not familiar with and I don't know how the structure of media outreach. So anyone, if anyone is inspired, you know, to engage with something like this, we could really need some help. Thank you, Klaus. And please, I'm guessing the group would very much like to stay informed about the status of the agriculture bill. And if there are particularly egregious points we should focus on or particularly positive points, we could, you do our own advocacy for. And also, I'll scan the young people I know for a TikTok fluent advocate to maybe put them in touch with you. TikTok would be amazing, right? I mean, already, when you go on TikTok and you put in climate change, there are some amazing contributions of young people who are on fire. But they're talking generically about climate change, right? That is not a campaign that says look at your food, look at what you buy. Who do you buy your food from? Because they're simply not educated on these issues. Yeah, the systems. Okay. Well, this has been good. We're moving along. We've got, I think we've got four more people who we have not yet to hear from. And Eric, you want to go next? If I could. I don't know if I can share anything on the screen. That's actually possible. So it's, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, I can. Apparently sometimes it's not possible for guests to do that. So I'm, it's very bad demo time. I am, I want to show you. I'm going to try to explain what I have been researching is about. And as practical as possible way. This is mostly graphs that I'm going to show. But I think it filters into all the discussions that's been going on in, in OGM. So I just want to start somewhere. And for the moment, maybe suck at it. And gradually get better. But it starts really simple. Principle is what if you have a kind of an outliner or the brain software but one that would allow for any kind of thing to be mapped in as easy way as possible. And the very basic idea is to have a kind of network of networks that gathers all the channels, communication channels and adds them to an active knowledge map, for instance. If I listen to, there's many more steps in this but I think it would take too much time. But basically, if you've got like, it's kind of what Vincent is doing. He's gathering a lot of channels of people like which channels or which products using within which theme. But what I'm then working on is kind of an interface that's as simple as possible. It's just one view and people can just relate anything to anything like in the brain, but then it's organized around categories. And these categories are, for instance, you could add a topic, you could add a help list item or you could do some governance, which is voting. You do curation, evaluation, review, governance and decision-making comes again in the same picture or knowledge management. It could be a location, a geo area, a time data, a number data. It could be a person, a group, an org, a network. It could be a service, a product, an event, an opportunity. It can be a project, a vision, a goal, a task, a to-do list. It could be any attachment or embedding of a website. And then this is a lot of information. I would guess to somebody who really doesn't know what I'm talking about, but it's basically a system where you could post anything and can be connected to each other. And the interface looks a bit like this. You have, for instance, this is really basic, very simple. There's a current crisis in Afghanistan. There's a type which is called orgs. And with orgs, you've got NGOs. You've got contact details in the project that these NGOs are doing. You've got all the groups that are there. You've got analysis. There's articles. There's a timeline of events. There's maps and monitors. And per city, there's a monitor for a crisis in Afghanistan. That's just one example, but it could be global warming. It could be any kind of issue. And you would see all the connections that are going on. Like, okay, the US government has these projects running. These agencies are working on these projects and then can be linked to all the possible channels that they use. It would be much more easy to see who to join where, but also to see a common way of thinking about these issues. As we are talking in a Zoom right now about these issues, it's a very limited amount of people. And we try to understand how to get out the information. This system is kind of as simple as an outline, a simple outline, but you just basically change the type of category. Okay, I will add an organization. I will add a project. I will add it to do. And it allows you to filter through all of it in the easiest possible way. This is just one interface. Even Facebook has different views, but you could do most of it just by an outline. I have no idea how clear all of this is. Is my current attempt well, but yeah. I mean, a drother or a wish I would have, not only for your system, but for some other systems, Mark isn't here today. I mean, various people are doing this kind of thing. And I would love it if a funder had the kind of vision to say, well, yeah. I mean, don't look at this as a self-powered innovation. To give it a real test, you need to pay for somebody to be the kind of info butler. And so that somebody can arrive at this thing and they're not lost. They don't have to find their own way. There's somebody there who says, what kind of information would you like to either add or find? Yeah, yeah. Okay, I'll do that. And you need a little bit of time of that sort of thing going, and then step back and say, so, did it really add meaning? Did it really add ease of collaboration? And those are the important questions, but. Well, as far as I understand, it doesn't exist yet. I see a lot of platforms, but they have a certain amount of levels and their interface is so, it's slow to go from one place to another. And what I tried to change is what I didn't tell, for instance, is my categories, there's a maximum of nine categories in one thing. And you basically have a code for anything you would add. How can you prove to me that you're part of the U.S. culture? If you could mute, please. It probably has a way to mute it. Look, what you're doing is very scammy. They're scaring people and you should get a little job. No, wait for participants and then you could mute them. You should be able to mute him. If you could, yeah. Do I take one? Looking at my menus. Who is the other one? Look at his screen and see if there's blue box with the little dots. The blue box, it says chat. Oh, okay. Vote for participants. Hey, Doug. Doug. You can mute yourself while you're not speaking to us, okay? It happens. Thank you. Okay, thank you, Eric. Yeah, I think it's great to do that kind of work and I hope that your work like that and other people's work like that can get a level of support, that there can be a navigator too. Yeah, I agree. That's something some people are working on already. And I find it most difficult to find funding for this kind of thing. Oh yeah. There's two. There's just, yeah. It has been for a while, yeah. Okay. All right, it's a good start. Okay, we have about, we're a little past the hour. We have a few more people that we have not heard from and some of you may need to go early. If anybody needs to go earlier wants to jump in next, please raise your hand or put up your hand signal. Allison and Shimon, I think are both, no, you're saying no, Allison. No, I can speak, yeah. Okay, go ahead. And good morning. I had a lot, lots of stuff moving around this morning. So it was nice to be able to wait, but there's certainly is a lot that I missed. And it seems that we have all of our brains have different ways of perching problems, for sure. Yeah, or perching solutions actually, which is what the purpose of problems are. But really what we're thinking about or coming into problems is we're looking at solutions. And one of the things that has come up for me, gosh, you know, as a hell no, I'm a teacher. So when I'm looking at how to approach history again, I never quite feel like I'm doing the best job that I could be. I don't feel, you know, we've got our textbooks and I teach U.S. history and world history and then economics and so, you know, there's a lot of subjects that have a good amount of time to reinvent the wheel for all of these things. But for sure, I feel like a huge story is missing. And that continues to be missing when it comes to our public narratives, you know? I really love teaching about colonial history of the U.S. And I really love the part about how this community kind of untethered, well, not untethered at all, tethered to immersed, it's the second nation, right? Immersed in the traumas from where they came. And in that trying to build a new but certainly still attached to the traumas that they had gone along with of oppression and the whole system. And yet there was a lot that was done with the community currencies and that is a huge story for me and how to reinvent an economy and reinvent modes of trade and reinvent these abilities to create the lives that we want. It may seem irrelevant to you, but I think it's exactly of the essence. And because we go and we blaze forward really quickly into the validity of a war and the heroism of a war. And we haven't stopped. So for my education, you know, I had wonderful parents and wonderful opportunities to go and see Washington DC and the National Monument and all the monuments that exist there for war. And my mom credit for being powerfully emotional to show me the color is a moving thing, you know? That war machine hasn't slivered town at all. Not putting it up in terms of seeing something and saying, look at what we've learned that just keeps growing. And I look back at, you know, this Afghanistan thing. Well, certainly a pattern was 9-11 that we didn't look at the complexity of the situation and we didn't ask why. We didn't ask, we didn't ask. That was the same thing that might be in common with Columbus and all the explorers, they didn't ask. Curiosity was not demonstrated. When it comes to anything like the patterns of the 2016 election, the pattern there was how to blame. What is it about our solution making that's needing to solve problems on behalf of others? What is it about our efforts at solution making that is so dominating? That's where I think that we've got a lot there to look at on when I've got to figure it out for other people. So for me, that money thing really comes into play because we can talk about these billions and billions of dollars with a quadrillion dollars that are up in derivatives. And I've like got this sense right now. I keep using the term Voldemort money because it's this like thing that's kind of like barely alive. You know, if you're familiar with Harry Potter, Voldemort was barely alive and he would have to suck the blood of unicorns to be able to stay alive. And that's how we've designed our money. We've designed our money to just barely stay alive. It has devalued to such a tiny percent that the...