 And we hear the IDTech show. Hi. Hello. So who are you? Hi, I'm Su-Ming Zhu. I'm the CEO of Ampsura. What is, what are you doing here? Okay, so this is a sample of composite flexible solid-state electrolyte materials that can be used in the next generation solid-state batteries. So, you can make battery out of this? Yes. There's a lot of talk of solid-state batteries, right? What's special about solid-state batteries? Okay, yeah solid-state batteries as we highlighted here, it can deliver double the energy density and it has intrinsic safety features. It doesn't catch fires in EVs or consumer electronics and with our advanced manufacturing technology we can do flexible batteries, we can do low-cost manufacturing, so it actually helps to reduce the manufacturing cost by 50%, while at the same time improve the energy density by 100%. So what does it mean? Double the battery? Yeah, so that means the electric vehicle like Tesla cars can drive double the range. At lower range? At lower the cost. Lower the cost? Yes. Smaller size? Absolutely. How soon? Well, looking at the right now it's at a very intensive R&D worldwide and we are one of the major suppliers of these kind of solid electrolyte materials. We're looking at at the next about five years. We'll see the commercial product based on solid-state batteries on the road. Actually, there's some news that Toyota will be the first company to showcase their solid-state battery EVs at the Tokyo Olympics. Let's see next year, all right? So a lot of people working on it and what is this one? Is it different? Yeah, so we have to develop the different recipes. This one have a lower thickness, so it's thinner. So it's a thinner solid electrolyte membrane, so it's made by the row-to-row manufacturing process. As we demonstrated here from the schematics, here's a picture from our lab. It's not fully automated yet, but it shows the concept and the way we would integrate the solid electrolyte membrane into a battery would be an automated row-to-row manufacturing process. So we're very excited about this new technology. So you mentioned Toshiba? Toyota. So who's making the cutting edge most advanced solid-state today? Well, Toyota is definitely the worldwide leader in solid-state batteries. Toyota, who else? Well, so we know all the major automotive OEMs are working on it. The company looks like Volkswagen, BMW, and others, and in the US the GM and the Ford. These are all the companies we have more or less collaborations with. So the solid-state battery is not lithium-ion. Can it use lithium-ion? Yeah, it is actually still lithium-ion. But it's a different way of making it? Yeah, exactly. It doesn't use the liquid. Traditional lithium-ion batteries use liquid electrolyte, so that would allow lithium-ions to travel in the liquid media. With solid-state, the lithium-ions would travel through the solid electrolyte. The membrane is like this. Five years, why not sooner? How does it get sooner? Are you a startup? Yeah, we're a startup company. So if you get some huge customer investment, things can go much faster? Absolutely. Yeah, so that will help us as a major solid electrolyte materials developer to accelerate the materials development and also accelerate the manufacturing process development. So where are you based? We have an office here in Silicon Valley and we have R&D lab based in Arizona where it's very dry, so it helps us with the materials production there. Dry is good? Yeah, dry air. Some of the solid electrolyte materials actually don't like moisture and in general battery manufacturing doesn't like a lot of moisture in the air. Arizona is dry just by nature. It helps. Is this one of the challenges to be fine when it's in wet conditions or what's the main challenge in the next five years or sooner to get solid state to be big? Yeah. What's the biggest challenge? Yeah, right now we're seeing because the solid state different from the liquid based battery systems. It uses new materials like solid electrolyte materials we're producing. It also requires some new manufacturing processes to integrate these new materials into the new battery designs. So there are like interface challenges, manufacturability challenges and that's why we focus on the most critical part which is the materials itself and the manufacturing of the materials. So we can accelerate this commercialization process. And ten times faster charging really? Yep, so that's based on patent pending technology. We have filed with the US patent office. We have developed a proprietary technology that would allow the lithium ions to transfer more than ten times faster. So that would allow the battery cell to be charged and discharged ten times faster. And when you say battery cost less than $100 per kilowatt hour, what is it now a battery cost currently? Now it's more or less anywhere between $150 and $200 per kilowatt hours. So you're talking half price kind of? Yeah, that's the goal set by the US Department of Energy to be achieved in the next five or ten years. How can you be a drop-in to the existing infrastructure? Yeah, great question. Yeah, so we call the drop-in because we have developed this row-to-row manufacturing process. So now our technology would allow us to use the new solid electrolyte materials and fit into the existing production line without changing a lot of the manufacturing facilities. So that's why we call it a drop-in. Is this how it looks in the manufacturing? Is this the stuff that will be happening? Yeah, so that just shows the concept and that's the picture from our lab. This is a picture to show how it would be used in the manufacturing for. How's this ID Tech Act show for you? Oh, this is a great event. It's a show to bring together a lot of the technology companies and a lot of the visitors to the show floor are companies that we would want to work with, either customers or collaborators or some are even investors coming from Silicon Valley.