 Welcome to Toffy TV, joined by John Blane as we are going to discuss a bit more of this. The Super League which it's gone away but it hasn't gone away and Florentino Perez tells us every day it hasn't gone away, it's merely on hold. John it's been a bit of a mad, it's just over a week now isn't it, nine days of time recording that it all broke. It worried a lot of people for a couple of days and then it went away very quickly it seemed or it fell apart very quickly but listening to Florentino Perez both during and after it fell apart in his opinion it hasn't gone anyway. It's merely just on hold so I mean. I don't know what on hold means. Till he'd come back with something better I think. Various clubs, they all did their announcements on Sunday didn't they, saying hooray we're in. Albeit I think five of the English clubs just did some bland statement and not all did social media as well just like sneaking it in on the website. Bless them Arsenal said we've found the members of this thing hooray. And then they've all claimed to have left yeah but there's no evidence they've left is there. And the contract that they all allegedly signed as a commitment point in July so I guess this could rumble along until then. I mean 23 year contract it's a 170 page document that each club signed so it's not something that was I've said before was scribbled on the back of a BMAT. It was you know something that was signed on Saturday, the Saturday before. Codon to Perez yeah. Codon to Perez obviously we knew there was a Champions League announcement on the Monday morning about the new reforms and everything else which ironically was only reformed because these clubs these 12 clubs are certainly some of the big names. That lobbied for it to be changed so they got more money. We've just been some big statements from it. I mean Perez has said it's on hold, clubs cannot resign, all signed 170 page contract it's legally binding. There's no way they can leave. That's Flontino Perez. Leeds see how Angus Canir has criticised the self-proclaimed six as he called them. Said it's a deeply cynical plan. Of course it was. And it's a betrayal of every true football supporter which I totally agree with. I agree. Absolutely agree that Leeds has gone on. We know. Fundamentally they just started out of the English clubs now. Those six clubs believed they were bigger than the league. In fact they probably thought they were bigger than UEFA when they had some mates to make it 12. No idea where the other three were coming from. I don't see anyone has any idea where the other three were. Even though the other three are sort of mentioned in the contract. But we're going to have a word with them and see if they'll join. But yet they've fundamentally believed that they could have their cake and eat it. I think it's a bit rich for later. Particularly the media, no doubt driving some of the propaganda messages out of the six. Starting to talk about managers and players were against this. And clearly they didn't know what was going on. But it was the reaction of universal reaction of fans that scared the watsit out of those six clubs. And maybe they did in publicly stating that the pulling out of it reacted to the reaction. And who's to say that now that it's all calmed down a little bit that they won't reconsider where they're at. I mean I can't possibly even imagine that any of those six are going to say they're going to go back into it. But with £130 million as the price of exit and if Perez is right that they signed the contract then they're on the hook for that money. And they're going to have to pay it. I mean 150 million euros. That's about £130 million. So that's £26 million a year every single year for the next five years for something that they were in for 10 minutes. Now you hear people saying, but these are very clever businessmen, they'll have thought of this. Well we'll see now won't we? The evidence will obviously, the proof will be in the pudding now with the proof of the pudding will be in the eating now if they can get out of it. Because obviously they're in a difficult predicament. I mean the Italian Federation, for a guarantee to England, back to England in the six clubs. The Italian Football Federation, the FIGC has held a meeting and it's approved the rule that will bank clubs competing in Serie A if they sign up to breakaway competitions. They have got till June 21st to register for Serie A but they have to be in no other competition at that time. Otherwise they are banned from next season from playing in Serie A. At the moment Juventus still haven't pulled out. That's right. Over Milan, whether they've pulled out. Quite clearly Italy have made moves now to stop any opportunity for these clubs to have to go and play in a new league competition. That foreshortens the rumbling period because the proof point is 10th of July for the Super League. Clearly if the Italian clubs, as you might expect, are going to blink and go, the thoughts of sharing in 1.2 billion of fines by the Super League that are going to be applied to the other eight is overcome by, there's no wriggle room here and they leave, then the Super League on the contractual stuff I've seen is dead. Just that on that 1.2 billion. Where Paris is a signature thing because there'd only be two of them left. If the Italian clubs stay, then it'll be a bit of a boring league. There's only going to be four. They're going to find a load of others, won't they? They'll try to. Just on you were talking about the 1.2 billion. This is something we discussed off here before, which was the way you were just working it out. Where's that come from? The 1.2 billion. The contract says, you've just said the number yourself. The contract says, if you want to leave, then it costs you €150 million. That €150 million has paid in five equal payments over the first five years of when you've left. For English clubs, if you convert it into pounds, it's £26 million per year for five years from six different clubs. You just do the sums. That's going to the shareholders who are left in it. You assume it goes to the Super League. Presumably, they may have the opportunity to disperse that to shareholders, which right now might suggest is four clubs. These founders weren't all equal to start with. The two Spanish clubs were more equal than anyone else. Indeed, one of the clubs has the right to extend the July period. Again, lots of negotiation has clearly gone on. This hasn't been done overnight. When you get chief execs of big Manchester-based clubs saying, I knew nothing about it, then someone has managed to agree a big fat contract with lots of two-in-and-froing without any reference to him. It's just not tenable to believe that, is it? No. He might be telling the truth, or just being cautious and careful with his words at the moment. Very interesting. Back then to the Premier League, that's where the Italian FA stand. They had nothing really from the Spanish FA, but listening to a lot of Spanish journalists, Barcelona and Real Madrid won football there anyway. They got 51% of the revenue and the rest. I spoke to some journalists at OFA, and some of them live, although they're English, live in Spain. They said, it's not the big who-how we've had here. They just haven't had it there. I think they get 51% of the TV, Barcelona and Real Madrid, and the rest of the teams get the other 14 out. When you look at the turnover of them, you can see it's the top two at Atletico, which is scandalous, isn't it? I'll equate it to this in a minute, but that to me is absolutely scandalous as well. Back onto the Premier League, there's obviously been the who-how over the six. It was Monday, Tuesday. Everyone was out to get the six. Everybody was out to get them. Sky were out to get them, and BT, and the journalists. The minute the data dropped on out, the narrative very quickly changed to, we can't punish these clubs, we can't do this. Gary Neville has been fighting the fight. Self-confessed. Got a night off last night, didn't he? Self-confessed Manchester United fan, Manchester United through and through. Has come out quite openly and said relegate them, ban them, fine them, kick them out of your room, because it's a get. He's also the owner of Shelford City, and he's looking at it from the whole thing, but he was very, very passionate. He started being very passionate on the Sunday night, and he carried it through, and he's not waned at all. Jamie Carragher, who we spoke to the other week, he's very vocal, but has levelled off a little bit in terms of, he still wants Liverpool punished, but not in the same way that Gary Neville did. Yeah, but even from the beginning, he was riding along on Neville's train rather than... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Others have done it, listen others have done it, but we've had other ex-players saying you can't, you know, you absolutely can't punish the clubs, you can't punish the fans and the players for what the club owns. That's a farce. So that's a farce, isn't it? Well it is, and this is where we are, I think it's difficult for... Do you know what's happened there? It's just an observation. Go on, go on. On Monday morning, if you are one, or the chief exec of one of the other 14 clubs, notwithstanding the bold statements that our club made that morning, then you're thinking these guys are all going. Therefore, actually the worst thing you think can happen, which is the alleged devaluing of the league and the broadcast incomes and all those sorts of things, is going to happen because they are gone. So your focus is then on hopefully stopping them from going. Well, while they were contemplating that, the reaction from fans, and it's irritating me that applauded being given to managers and to players, and I know the journalists are saying and the fans did this, that and the other, but most of those managers and players only stuck their head above the parapet when it was clear which way the wind was blowing. And they weren't doing it Sunday night and very early Monday morning and so on. Then their mindset changes when they realise that you can see that there's momentum here that's going to make it incredibly difficult, if not impossible, for all of those six to follow through with their treacherous plan. And clearly with Perez and others saying actually a couple which most of us concluded was city and Chelsea, only sort of went in under the sufferance of your better in than ours, then they were going to be the first to jump and they did, they might have had a little battle on who could get their statement out faster. And that's an intent, isn't it, rather than an actuality because if they have signed a contract it's not been unpicked yet. And it was also curious that a letter of intent has turned into a binding contract. Letters of intent are not normally binding in that way. And some of the leaked documents talk about framework agreements which again don't have the full weight of contractual commitment and so on. But if we assume they have signed it's going to cost them money to get away, right? But then the narrative changes which is okay, they've not gone, which is the thing we were really worried about. I'm Brighton or I'm Southampton or I'm Leicester or whoever. Whoever's the voice of reason as Henry Winter has chosen to call them in the times today. Then I'm thinking, oh okay, Armageddon's not going to happen. So let's not upset them. Let's not compromise our broadcast revenues. Let's not relegate them. Let's not give them a point of deduction which may devalue the perception of the composition and all those sorts of things. And so they've reverted back to type, which is the type being the natural part of self-interest. But also some deference that suggests that they are the big six. We need them and so on. And I think the binary side of it which is where Neville's going who's an activist type and ex-union leader for players and stuff he's cutting through the crap and he's saying they have to be punished really, really hard otherwise it'll come again. And then it's just how. How do you punish them? My own view is not dissimilar from Neville's. I think it could be a point deduction once this season is finished for this season which allows you to tweak who doesn't and doesn't qualify for Europe. You wait for a backtrack. Again, they're all reacting and talking before they've actually reconciled what they really mean because it caused the chief there's either chief except but the guy who leads you afer. Alexander Caterham. He said they will be punished then he said they won't and then he said they might. He said to their sanction will definitely be made against the throw. But a sanction is finance. Fine and Man City 50 million quid they're just laughing your face. In fact, all these clubs perhaps they're paying 25 million, 26 million every year to get out in the first place. But it has to be a sporting sanction to me and I just think that when you wait for when after Man City what they wanted to do was find them 50 million euros and ban them from European competition for two years. Now your viewers and proper football fans can think is this worse than what City did? And I put my hand up and say I think it is. What these six have done is much worse. They were going to destroy football not win a cup because they fiddle the books although City got found. They got off on a technicality but anyway it doesn't really matter. But your afer thought that was worthy of two year ban and 50 million quid. This must be more. Surely? Isn't it? More? I mean the argument too is not to punish the fans. Fine. Which fans? The six or the 14. You're of the six. So I'm a fan of one of the six. I didn't decide that my club my club wasn't in the six as we know. So if you're a fan of the six you're going well. I didn't decide that I wanted to go. We spoke to the red men and they obviously go to maths the Liverpool fan. They were devastated on the Monday and the Tuesday when they thought they were out of the Premier League. They were devastated. We don't want to go. We want to stay where we are and do well. But then they voted three days later not to try and get FSG out. What I'm saying is the right Henry Winters right on some level got harsh to punish the fans. But the reality is given these clubs a financial thing isn't a punishment if you don't pay this pay that. It's nothing. You know Betty, Wigan, Sheffield Wednesday Portmouth in the past clubs like this all these clubs were punished. The fans didn't do anything. They were punished. Every single every single sporting sanction football that's been levied over the last 30 40 years about things that have happened. You know of either punished some of the map. Punished clubs had nothing to do with stuff for example and certainly if you're talking about these financial things where the leads and all these going into administration and point deductions and all those sorts of things. Of course they hurt the fans. It's quite an emotional subject in football club. Wigan finished 11th and got relegated. Exactly right. That those people who are entrusted with running your football club have made a bad decision and they shouldn't be punished. I said to you off air I had this conversation with a man said to you mate of mine and the point of view there is well they didn't ask the players they didn't ask the managers well yeah but guess what in commercial terms and it's not nice but managers and players are employees people who run businesses might ask their employees what they think but the employees don't decide so it's for the individual clubs to determine why they didn't talk to Clark or to Guardiola or whatever it might be maybe because he would have got an answer they didn't like. As far as fans are concerned you don't get asked when were the fans last asked about anything outside of Everton with this consultation process for the stadium and even then surely you could flip over and say well the fans wanted 60,000 but it's not going to be, you know what I mean so they still have the remit to choose which bits they listen to and which bits they don't but they have to be punished from a sporting perspective because it's the sport they were trying to destroy for self-interest and for money. Going through a competition with no promotion relegate you'd be invited you can't be relegated from it so these 12 clubs and 12 plus 3 12 plus the mysterious they don't know it at least two of which wouldn't have done it anyway so there would be 15 of them they could never be relegated they would guarantee £350m a year if you went to the stadium which was going to be from borrowings and those borrowings were supported by broadcast deals they didn't have but that's what these were signing off and they wanted to stay in the Premier League we want the £350m but we want to play in the Premier League against the other 14 who don't get this income and have got no chance of even getting that in I suppose an integrity disappears exactly it's not a competition we had Pep Guardiola talking about the train it's not common he came across really well didn't he he did because I'm not going to mention other managers but he was fantastic on it because he said it's not competition how can if I can any and I can't lose it it's not competition the clubs, the 14 clubs voted for the right to lose didn't they? as the fans did the fans were voting for the right to not win stuff if that makes sense because you were going into something where it didn't matter these are the got what they wanted playing in this super league on a Wednesday night and then coming back to full fill Premier League fixes of the weekend we said before we spoke to Paul from the Redmen if it got to February and Liverpool or Arsenal or Tottenham or Manchester couldn't win the Premier League because City had it shown up what's their motivation when none of the games mean anything doesn't matter if they finished 11th because they're already in it would only be the prize money and the prize money's far bigger so the motivation would be I've got a game in this European Super League where I get 350 million and we get prize money as well and I want to finish as high up in that because that prize money outweighs the Premier League under 18s on a shafty thanks in an important game there's no doubt they were destroying football football there was 86 other clubs quickly really quite quickly some of the 14 clubs the proper 40 the remainders of the Premier League are now ending well what do we do you've got journalists don't punish the fans what do you think and it's difficult this because obviously we're ever thrown in so we're allowed to comment now and this is where Henry Winter is playing a really good game isn't he from a psychological almost a passive aggressive sort of way he's implying that tribalism means you can't have an impartial view this is our channel so we can so without and it'll be difficult to do it but try to if you're trying to think of the 14 other clubs with Evan and Inna what do you think is a realistic and fitting punishment because no matter what people say I've seen this argument and we had it with Ross as well Ross is a lovely lad but he said he didn't do anything wrong he broke rule l9 it's out there everybody knows you've talked about Italy the Premier League already have that rule it's just that the punishment is determined when they break it if you do this that's the automatic punishment if the Premier League had that automatic punishment as soon as there's evidence that they signed the contract they would all be thrown out of the Premier League wouldn't they so is it not moral for that to be the automatic reaction now we should have had l9 I've not read it it's l9 I know it's l9 but it fundamentally says you need permission to play in another league and if you don't get permission and you're broken it therefore we punish you and there's no doubt that the rule has been broken because they all announced it they all said they're in this thing so even if they go to court to fight over the 150 million euros saying we weren't in it really the evidence from the other side is going to be put you announced it so for you what's a fitting punishment it really is difficult in my day job back in the day some organisations would have measured over a reaction in this situation in other words what they do would be worse than what you can imagine I think I don't think it would be too crazy to relegate all six of them but that's not going to happen straight away you asked me what you think when you say that's not going to happen it makes me say why and you'll talk about vested interests and all that so I'm not with that I think someone like Paul from EBM throwed him out the whole pyramid it's his view of the world that is your measured over reaction and I doubt if everybody would disagree with that so my personal favourite is the points deductions and then you can customise the points deductions as to A what is it how much, how many points in other words and when you apply it do we apply it this season or do we apply it as the start of next season and if you're looking at that and you say well if we apply it at the end of the season we actually know where the people have decided on the number what the impact of the number is going to be don't we so I'm a fan of what's the objective so instead of me telling you I've done the numbers on 20 points, 25, whatever I know some fans say well just pick a number that means at least one of them gets relegated and that'd be arsenal probably and that's an AS getting done for simulation pick one and make them suffer but you can do that way but my outcome is they shouldn't be playing in Europe in competition for a couple of years in my view if UEFA aren't going to apply sporting sanctions then the Premier League should apply sporting sanctions that results in the same thing and that would dictate how many points that you have to take off them and to take points off of sufficient number to stop city playing in Europe you will relegate Arsenal and or Tottenham and if that's what happens so what tough they should have thought about that but the arrogance of them was they never thought this is what I don't get nobody who was involved in signing up to that thing from those six clubs presumably thought that this reaction was ever going to happen because you wouldn't sign up otherwise would you so what's your thoughts like a realistic thing for me would be oh money as well by the way but money on its own is pointless so what I'd do and transfer bands probably a 12 point deduction to be taken at the start from next season but I would also kick them out of Europe for next season but if UEFA allowed them into Europe that's right but UEFA can't say that they're not imposing sporting sanctions but the Premier League puts forward its European contenders every year so the Premier League can still decide as a committee that we are not putting them forward and it will go to court and precedence will come into play that says the top fourer was going to the Champions League and a court would agree well maybe so that's what I mean you've got to customise the points deductions that would be mine because I've seen this the other day that the Premier League as a committee can say we're as a punishment for you we haven't kicked you out which we could have done of the league we're allowing you to stay in the league but the punishment is for this 12 months you're not being put forward for European competition the four next highest teams would go in the Champions League and the three would go into Europe and one in the conference for 12 months and that is your thing and maybe a transfer ban because I think I think you're saying is for this season we we being the Premier League other than those six to be our European representatives so we'll come to that in a second then next season all six clubs start with minus 12 and it's up to you if you're the big six the super six the elite the only ones that matter then you'll be in the top but what I'm saying is already you're saying there's four defeats already if you're that good you'll be at the top anyway so there's no comeback and we're allowing you off the hook because we could have really done whatever I don't know whether there's a I'm unsure 12s enough there's going to be some jeopardy there that at least one of those clubs thinks this could be a real problem but I don't know whether you can do a deeper punch deduction and that I'm sure after season 12 was the most that's what the rules only allow for then yeah so okay let's rephrase it what you're suggesting is this season as the outcome and let's briefly in a moment talk about how you can make that happen none of them get to play in Europe next year and then they all start with a points deduction that's the maximum the rules will allow or one they choose as they because if the rules allow unlimited then you're not going to give them 100 but yeah and then as far as the other ones concerned which is the playing in Europe thing and this is why I think hopefully and the Premier League it's remaining 14 shareholders are just thinking how do we do what we think is the right thing to do in other words they've had this conversation we know what the outcome is we've just got to get legal advice and all that sort of stuff but clearly the one way to overcome any concerns about being dragged into courts and so on is you sit down individually with the six clubs and say Man City this is the punishment we're going to apply to you okay know you're up next year we're not going to put your name forward and you start next season with your version minus 12 if you're not prepared to accept that we're going to go for total expulsion as an example just pick which one you want because frankly if you're not going to accept the first one you're going to go to court I'm assuming because we're going to impose it anyway therefore unless you sign a piece of paper sign it up to the punishment we might as well go to court over expulsion now of course then you're on the risks of they go to court to put a suspension on decision making so either they're in the league until the court case is resolved or the league doesn't start and so on and you can just imagine what that will do to the fans in this country about what they think of those six clubs apply fear uncertainty and doubt to them fear is the reaction that's going to happen sponsors are going to run a million miles away uncertainty needs to be resolved and if you're in Man City just sign here and the doubt bit that's also fixed just sign here so you're out of Europe for one year maybe two depends on how you perform next year that's a different conversation than you have with Arsenal the same author but for them it's a harder decision because City will sit there thinking so after a year out of Europe our players can have a bit of a rest it's the year after European Championships they're all going to be knackered anyway they'll probably still win the league we're probably going to still win the league and certainly all our so-called major competitors are in the same boat so either in Leicester and West Ham, whoever it might be might run off at the beginning and we'll chase them down and when the Plains Champions League they'll be losing games and that chasing them down will make for great TV in a year when there's contract renewal time so that's goodness and I think I don't know if I said this on EBM or indeed if I just said it privately on a WhatsApp or something but it might accelerate Premier League too because clearly one of the options here would be if you did relegate them to the championship just send six down and bring six up you might well call it Premier League too and Premier League too itself would allow for some redistribution wouldn't it because all the broadcast revenues would be spread across more clubs so I just hope that there's some testicular fortitude going on even amongst the female members of that shareholder group that they understand just stiffened Man City with 50 even 100 million fine means nothing if they still parade with the FA Cup which clearly can't compromise this year but they can still go off and play in the Champions League and all those sorts of things but if you look at UEFA the chances are one of these Super League clubs are going to win the Champions League do they really want to not have the winner in it but it's not all in their gift as we're talking because the Premier League might say well we're not proposing Man City UEFA could then say they don't come as a representative of the Premier League they come as the previous winner so that's peeling an onion isn't it difficult isn't it but I just feel this narrative of don't punish them because you're punishing the fans it means nothing it's spin it's propaganda and it's biting because it's not just those six clubs fans who are saying it and I just don't get it and for people like Winter to accuse implying rather not accuse implying that the 14 are just trying to take advantage for their own personal gain is a bit rich giving that six we're trying to take advantage for their own personal gain hence his views about tribalism but then again he's got to look after himself he'll be missing out on sandwiches and free tickets and stuff like that that's exactly so he's got no vested interest at all so I rather hope it is an opportunity though to fix some things I think it's inevitable my own view that the government review whenever that completes will result in fans on boards and I think proper functioning board members clearly they're not going to get to hear and see everything but material things that matter like this for example and there's nothing stopping Premier League clubs doing that voluntary right now and fans of the Sly Six whatever you want to call them Treacherous Six I'm on I've gone past Scum Six to Treacherous Six so fans of them should be happy because this is protecting the things that they were kicking off about the other day which is don't do this to my club we don't want it we are playing this league and we're happy with this league by giving these clubs this punishment is protecting them long term because let's not make any problems of that the canons just been kicked down the road with this one according to Peres the first throw in the water was project Big Pitya everyone was up in arms about that in July up in arms of this can't be a super league can't be this there's the first little thing there's the first bomb we'll just sit back again they come back this time which is pretty much the same thing pretty much the same but they've gone a bit and still screwed up or clubs have released statements still screwed up exactly so they've retreated with the 170 page contract and they'll just be their lawyers or whoever it is will be thinking them in different ways how to present version 3 and the worry is version 3 is of the mindset is he not that football will die unless this happens this is the saviour he's on his white charger coming over the hill saving everybody saving everybody and whatever if he's the architect or the head of marketing he sold it to 6 English clubs they may have been seduced by big fat paychecks but they were seduced all the same and then they went public on something that's not going to happen for 2 or 3 years had they spent half that 2 or 3 years building up to what they did last Sunday they may have held the day because he thinks basically fans just don't understand what they were trying to do and if they did understand we'd all be behind it well guess what we know enough to know we wouldn't because the sporting integrity side and all that sort of stuff but you're right it's a bit of a you know a can kicking exercise Syria have nailed their views straight away personal observation I see no reason why the Premier League couldn't have done it yesterday or tomorrow the same rule of change it's a tweak that's all it is but it is a cautious entity and many of its members have got vested interests but fans have vested interests as well on all sides you know and it is interesting that I think we will see see how much momentum they can keep up but clearly Arsenal fans want their owners gone interestingly of course United fans have always wanted theirs gone and there'll be rumours there'll be 10,000 of them protesting at the weekend and of course our friends from across the park through the spirit of Shankly have at this stage said they're prepared to talk to FSG but the price of them not kicking off is people on the board fans on the board so let me just ask you this before we finish by the way in that no pun intended in that big picture sense I've watched apart from the banserys stuff and forums and groups and stuff Evan and Liverpool fans being on the same page broadly and if they are seeking to get fans on the board at Liverpool as the price of not trying to kick out FSG and they get that then we should support it it's a good start because Evan will do it anyway I think it's just when not if and then other clubs will have to follow hopefully other clubs and then fans can't actually get but that's to be real it's gotta be real if you're coming and observing you're sitting in the room for 15 minutes after the meeting you never see but looking at it from a football club's perspective it's difficult to control non-employees so imagine the evidence board is sitting there and me and you are fan representatives and their debate which players we're going to buy and which ones we're going to sell and which players we're going to let go and which ones we're going to give pay rises to and then Baz comes back to Toffy TV and tells everybody so it's not easy some restrictions and I think people would accept that but there's certain things like moving the league that fans have to be very part of just very quickly then to finish a lot of these owners are American Agnelli, Andrea Agnelli you've been to this American all with the same vision these owners don't live in the cities John Henry's not walking on they're the people having to face Liverpool fans what do when he'll have the testiculus to come over he's not having to do it on a daily basis Stan Cronkey doesn't walk around North London after face Arsenal fans day in day out and this is why you get pictures isn't it far had a pre-season games hugging people hugging me but what I mean is what I'm saying is where they are the billionaires the billionaires because they've got the balls to make some tough decisions and things that aren't popular do you think they're really bothered that the fans are do you think Stan Cronkey's bothered that 5,000 Arsenal fans signed up saying Cronkey out do you think the glazes care the United Fans are protesting the green and yellow and standing up against glazes and this that do you think that the fans can have that influence to get them out of their club I think so yeah because fundamentally the way pressure will be brought to bear through sponsors really income streams you know Manchester United biggest engine in the world for generating income okay or the RSO across the way at early second early today probably in brand value and worldwide presence and all that what happened to Stan Cronkey you know what you don't quite fit with our ethos anymore Liverpool because you know and I would imagine perhaps there's even potential for all the sponsorship contracts these clubs have some of them will allow you know the incumbents to go away if they want yeah so there's a lot of settling isn't there waiting to see what the impact is going to be you saw the United's share price went through the roof and then fell off a cliff you know in a matter of 48 hours or something but no those North American owners who live in Boston or whatever they live you know are not going to be too fussed if a handful in comparative terms fans are screaming at them when they're not even there it helps that they're not on the terraces I suppose yeah I think that's where the Liverpool fans missed the trick I think they should have had the cop with no flags on it just for one game they took them away no no but they should have left them off for that one game just to say they're still not happy about it the strong message that it would bring but anyway it's done now but hit them where if they're only after money then you can impact them in the pockets can't you which is why a change in the perceived value of the business of the thing that is selling it because now you get people saying oh well Cronchay will sell for X and the Glaciers will sell for Y and so on but no they're not I don't think they're going to be impacted by 10,000 people outside Old Trafford at the weekend when there's 100 million on the planet that's the problem isn't it but that's where the fan activism thing comes to the fore and time is a healer you know in a month or so's time the season will end and who's going to remember all this come August you know and that's why I think there needs to be sufficient momentum and sufficient people maybe it's like toffee TV if you like to keep it in front of people's minds but of course it will all kick off when the Premier League say what the punishment is or not and the same with UEFA and that could have run as I said before to middle of July but Syria are helping by bringing it forward a little bit they've made their decision very quickly yeah it's going to run and run I think we'll have to wait and see we'll have to wait and see but there should be some punishment because if you don't punish people for breaking the rules then where's the deterrent you can just do it again it's not a good position to be big thanks John for joining me today let us know what you think in the comments section below and now a lot of you the other videos we've done have said nothing will happen to them because the Premier League haven't got the balls whatever whatever whatever but if there was something to happen what do you think is a fair and right punishment for these six clubs obviously there's 12 clubs that Italy have already put a rule in place for their clubs that anyone does it again the ban from Syria so is that what the Premier League should do as a starting point other things you think should happen and yeah I don't know thank you very much for watching give the video a thumbs up subscribe if you haven't and if you want more videos including daily live videos join us on patreon see you later