 738 p.m. My name is Judd Pierce, and I am the chair of this fine committee before we get started tonight I'd like to just have a request respectfully a brief moment of silence for the passing of Harry McCabe Mr. McCabe was Just a long time member of town meeting beloved husband and father an Arlington treasure at many many many folks are going to miss We lost Harry this week. So Respectfully a moment of silence for mr. McCabe. Thank you tonight We're going to start off with a bit from dr. Bodie on a special education director and a recommendation of that position to us we will move on to Programmatic needs of the Arlington high school Which will be a discussion led by dr. Bodie as well as an architect at HMF H lori coals Then we'll have some brief presentations of new policies and first-read policies from the policies and procedures subcommittee And we will follow with a brief executive session Coming out I think only for adjournment purposes so Without any further ado dr. Yes, I am very pleased to introduce to you and recommend The appointment of Allison Elmer as the director of special education for next year and Allison Would you like to join us up here at the table as you're aware? We began this process back in November really November in which we started posting for the position We had a search committee that was very representative of teachers administrators CPAC Parents in the community and we entered we had a number of candidates that we interviewed and I have had actually a fairly long series of Multiple interviews here in the district as well as Considerable reference checks, which is which is something that I firmly believe is important and through this process I have come to the the The place where I want to recommend Ms. Elmer to you I'm gonna let her talk a little bit about her background But I will say to you this in terms of her educational background she holds an MED from Harvard in school leadership and her bachelors from Boston College is in modern and severe special needs so without that what a plan is this evening is that Allison is gonna give a little bit of background About herself and then we thought that the majority of the time would be an opportunity for you to ask some questions Procedurally we will have an executive session tonight. We will we'll talk about Talk about some contractual issues and then a vote on the appointment and the contract will be next week. All right Thank you. Hi. It's nice to meet everyone. Thank you for having me tonight As dr. Bodie said I actually have elementary and moderate special needs I love your special needs as an undergraduate, but I started working out as a classroom teacher at a Non-profit chapter 766 approved private school for Students with autism I worked with the 16 to 22 year olds in the vocational training program at the league school of greater Boston originally at the time it was over and Newton has since moved out to Walpole and After doing that for a couple of years. I went back to graduate school to get my master's in school leadership and through that I did a Internship in the Boston public schools for my principal Licensure and through that ended up working in the Boston public schools for the next seven years as what was called a lab Cluster coordinator, which is a special ed administrator for a program for students identify with social and emotional Disabilities, and then I most recently currently working in the Reading public schools as the director of student services there and I Met several of you throughout the interview process and one of the things I'm really excited about Coming to Arlington is that blend of both my urban background and now this more suburban experience But blending that in a community that really truly is diverse both Economically as well as ethnically and racially and and having that blend is something that is really exciting to me But also the fact that you're a high-achieving district with those What can sometimes be seen as challenges for some communities? It's it's great to be joining a community that has really been able to provide quality education for a variety of students of across Across those demographics, so that's something I'm really excited about as well as the staff that I've had the opportunity to meet particularly the special education Leadership the coordinators and that look like a strong group who have a lot of ideas about Where they'd like to see the district go and they have a vast experience So I'm really excited about working with that group of people as well as the central office Team that I had the opportunity to meet and I'm very excited Open it up for questions. I guess from the committee We'd like to we'd like to start Mr. Hader Can you tell us anything some stuff about programs that you've initiated in district not a district sure Most recently in in Reading when I came to the district. We had identified students who we had a program for kids with social and emotional issues, but we had identified a group that still was not responding to those supports and chronic school avoidance Repeated hospitalizations and so Within my first year. We had put together a program for those students, which we call it therapeutic support program We worked with Wadikos Children's Services as the consultant to help us develop that program. It's now and it's Well, we're in our third year now of the program and we continue to work on refining the program but through that process of Developing it. We've then looked at our other existing programs to how can we How can we look at them to Match what the current population is in the programs. We you know in the last six to eight years we really spend a lot of time developing programs, but the profile of the students has changed and So we need to make sure that we're continually looking at our programs to make sure they're meeting the needs of the students That we currently have not who maybe we started the program for eight years ago. So we're doing that and we're Working with as I mentioned the consultants to kind of go program by program right now So that's some of the experience I've had doing that As you get familiar with the district, you'll I'm sure have a laundry list of things that you'd like to look in more detail at But in terms of your overall exposure to special ed and the direction of districts right now Is there anything that you see could be an area for focus that would lead us to be Forefront or Sandy for saying the standard for special education as opposed to being reactionary to What we see as a perceived population Right, so I think that that question really starts in general education And so what are we doing to serve all students before they get to special ed so that we aren't just waiting until they've We have their needs haven't been met in that setting. And so I think Or a lot of districts are familiar with our tianna. I know that you've done a lot with reading interventions here But I do think my particular Passion is for behavioral health as well And so that's an area that I really do think that if we start to look at That tiered interventions for behavioral health supports in the way that we look at tiered interventions for academics is a way to To to be moving forward the state has developed, you know, it has created their own department of MTSS And it's still in the beginning stages And so I do think that that's an area for growth and opportunity to really be leaders in it they're started introducing grants for districts that are exploring that and I think that's an area we could definitely be leaders Like many districts we've seen a significant increase in health and special education costs over the past five years and It's it's questionable that whether we can sustain that level of growth And so I'm wondering if you've given any thought to how you might address that challenge I think we need to look deeper into where is the where is the growth coming from is it from increasing out of district placements is it the growth in the cost of our in district programs So that first question, you know exploring that I Think the stronger we make our in district programs the less we need to look at out of district programs So an area to really dig into is what are our programs? And are they meeting the needs of the students in the way that that we need them to Dr. Bodie has mentioned that that's something that you've already started to look at and it's something that you want to continue and whether the current Staffing structures support what the program is designed to do or whether it's shifted and there's been some drift and how do you get back to what was intended But that would be an area that happens This starts um the when I talked to parents In our who are being served by our special education department the number one issue that they say we have is customer service They tell us that They there are things they don't know there are calls that aren't made back in time whatever I Want to know what you think you could do and what you think we could do about fixing that Sure, so some of that might be as simple as I don't and this would be something I would need to find out is you know Do we have either whether a? Explicit policy or unexpected policy around simply returning, you know communication whether it's within 48 hours on a phone call or 24 hours within email I think something as simple as setting those expectations is one way to start But I've mentioned in the previous interviews I think making sure that everybody has the same information so that you're building trust so that You know that when you speak to the teacher that it's going to be the same message that you get from the building principle Which is going to be the same message that you get from the coordinator or the team share or the director I think that helps to build trust so that maybe that I need to get an answer from someone else isn't always there I think Customer service is a delicate balance because You know in a business setting. Yes, the customer is always right But when we're working in schools were more of a team and so we have to respect both what the educators are bringing to the table And what the family is bringing to the table. So having that mutual respect and understanding for What each what it what is driving each side? So Understanding that as a when a parent comes in they're concerned about their child as a teacher You may be concerned about your classroom as a principal You're concerned about your school and how do we keep bring all those lenses to meet the needs of? That individual child but also within a district that we have to keep in mind too So I think those are frank conversations. You have to be able to have and by being honest and being truthful You get to a place where you know It's not about well you want that and we want this but These are these are what we're bringing while bringing to the table and we at least have to recognize that and so I think that's part of you know being heard and and That's part of customer service, you know, but you don't want to just call to the next answer I didn't like that answer. So I'm going to call and hope someone else gives me a different answer I I think that doesn't build trust and it just creates that continued need for more and more Phone calls. So I I would start with making sure that we all have the same We are armed with the same knowledge and information so that we can There's a long answer for a short Mr. Schlegner For me the difficult question is this you're like you did the principal internship, but you're going in this this in this direction Why would you want to be a special ed director? You know when I went to graduate school, they didn't have these bed directors program It was you know if I was going to get licensure then it would be in principal licensure So at least I could be an administrator in a building. I'd always wanted to be a special ed administrator To be honest, I've never had any intentions of being a principal It was to get that administrative experience, you know And when I was a school-based administrator that was really helpful to have that much bigger picture a lot of times I think particularly with this with a special ed director You know, you've identified a strong special ed teacher and they might become a team chair And then they become and they don't have that experience with school leadership and the bigger picture of organizational Leadership, so I you know, I'm really glad that I had that experience But it was never my intention to be a principal. I see your experiences is a former Boston person myself I see experience it's a lab cluster coordinator and for those who don't understand what a difficult and challenging job That is could you just give a brief description of what? At the time the acronym was learning adaptive behavior and I mentioned it was for students identify with social and emotional disabilities it was a substantially separate program within the you know general ed it was a K to 5 and then we became a K to 8 and It's first students who have exhibited traditionally more of the Externalizing behaviors rather than the internalizing behaviors. So more of the acting out physical verbal aggression I think that with people who worked in Boston are probably more familiar with that aspect of the program But I think what's important to understand is the root of those behaviors are the same thing that might be an internalizing So whether it's anxiety depression and a trauma history It's how it's exhibited is, you know, maybe different than a kid who turns inward and create, you know, self-harm or self-injurious So that understanding I think is what also You know keeps me so Why behavior health is so important to me, but also just that notion that these kids belong in our schools So that's the one group that I think people have One of the most difficult times accepting as that's a disability. Are they just bad kids? Are they just willfully, you know misbehaving and they don't see the disability because maybe it's not physical It doesn't physical, you know, their test scores aren't showing that they have a cognitive delay They can't see it and so I Think that understanding and that experience has been really really Fundamental to what I do now. Thank you So I'm thinking back to what you were saying that each parent feels, you know They're concerned about their child and yet as an administrator You're having to look at kind of the whole picture And I'm just wondering if you could give an example of how you've kept the best interests of the children in mind as you've made bigger picture Decisions. Sure. I mean those decisions are still at the heart of what we're doing at the end of the day when it comes down to And this may go back to, you know, speciality expenses at the end of the day We're still going to be driven by, you know What is right for the child and, you know, a free appropriate education in a the least restrictive environment and, you know, I Think of we've had a couple of students where we've identified That we feel that they would be best supported in a substantially separate program the parent really Want, you know, valued inclusion and wanted their child to be included to the maximum extent, you know, that they could and So That really caused us to think about how we would shift support so that student could be included In a meaningful way so that that student could Still benefit from instruction And so it was several hard conversations with a family of saying You want this for your child in order for them to receive this we're gonna have to make some compromises and We've been able to do that by Building supports and at the school that normally we would have said you have to go across town to that school and to that program over there How can we look at starting to build some of those resources in here? So the student can stay in their home school and that was a bigger shift. It was a shift in resources It was a shift in thinking for the school itself. How are we going to these are kids that we would normally have referred elsewhere and so it's It's taken a couple of years for there to be kind of that ownership and to say the student is here to stay But that was something that It felt top-down, you know, that we were this is gonna happen You're gonna have to do it But how can we support you so that you can support the student and you know, the family has been excellent They've been a partner in it and they recognize that the school is still learning, you know, and We're trying to Support the teachers as they learn so Thank you Thank you for being here tonight and to speak with us and in meeting with you a few weeks ago I remembered a question about the increase or the uptick in student anxiety and what That holds What that beholds for a department such as our special education department if you were the director here How would you address that sort of broad issue? Sure. Well, you also have a pretty big a pretty large department as well between your school psychologist and the social workers and the behavior support So I really see that that group is helping to Really drive what we do, but I do think it goes back to looking at a structure That is not just about special ed again But what is about the whole school and how do we use a multi-tiered system of support to intervene early and how do we use it to you know lay that foundation for all students and then how How do we identify students who need a little bit more and then for those kids who really, you know Are going to need some individual stuff, but using that lens again That we we are all comfortable using for academics, but using that lens on a behavioral health perspective such as anxiety and You know in depression is another one that is also Worsen we're seeing increases in as well But using that lens to think about all students and not again just waiting till they get to special ed to Address the problem, but really looking at it as this is a problem for the whole school and the whole system to address Thank you Right Anyone else? Thank you. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate your time Okay, moving on with our agenda. We are at the programmatic needs report of the Arlington high school This will be a 60-minute segment folks for watching Before we get started Linda Hansen our AEA rep is with us here tonight Okay, so I just had a text from our presenter and she's been held up with some traffic getting in here Okay, so could I suggest that we perhaps flip the Nobody I think she's just going to be a couple more minutes Motion motion to table Second Okay, moving on then to our nine o'clock segment policies and procedures are to put you on the hot seat Mr. Thielman he's always ready Some second rates ready for second maybe so we have a second reading New policy keb public complaints and at the same time we would be eliminating it would be replacing ke Current version of public complaints ke dash e Another word another the explanation him a compliance keb public complaints about school personnel and keb dash are the procedure regarding public complaints about school personnel and so As we discussed last week the purpose of this is to Simplify the complaint process Make it clear that the first line of complaint is to a The staff member with whom you have a disagreement. The second is to the building principal The third is to the superintendent or the designee and the final place to go is to this school to me Um, so it simplifies the process and according to our lawyers it Limits our liability Can I entertain a motion? So I I move that we adopt policy keb and eliminate policies the policies I indicated ke k e dash e k e b k e b dash are Second by moscow Discussion all those in favor say aye. All right all those against process the next is The second reading of the elimination of policies which are no longer necessary Or are obsolete by because of regulation of law policy h Negotiations policy hg the method of determining staff negotiating organizations and policy jfa da the kindergarten fee policy We don't need these policies anymore because of contracts we have with our union Unions and because we don't have the the fee policy. We don't have a kindergarten fee I move elimination of these policies second Just one thing on vile hg. It does recognize the Arlington education association as the one that the school committee recognizes And it describes unit a of a a and triple a and Any reasons why we wouldn't want that? Noted in our policy manual future reference It's already We're contractually bound because it's part of the recognition clause in each one of the contracts And I don't I personally don't see it necessary in policy. The contract would supersede policy anyway So this this sort of preamble is in the contract. Yeah in the recognition clause. Okay Okay, all those in favor say aye. All right all those against Passes seven zero Okay, then the next is just the first reading uh tonight Elimination of two other policies which are no longer necessary because of the adoption of k e b which is escalating issues be dha And staff complaints and grievances Staff complaints and grievances are is actually covered by contract And that's policy gbk. So tonight's just the first reading And the committee's happy to answer any questions that people might have Any questions on these first reads Okay, the committee meets next on Tuesday March 18 at 6 30 6 30 p.m. Right 6 30 p.m. And at that meeting We had a conversation you can see in the minutes when we read the minutes We had a conversation about the district's policies on discrimination and harassment and Attorney brian is recommending That we update those policies and making current with the law and We had discussion about that at the at the last meeting. She took our input. She's going to come back with some modifications on the 18th She's also going to have some other Potential changes so regarding regarding curriculum. So We will come back to you at the last meeting Of the year Your last meeting is chair on march 27th with some first readings and a second I guess next we get to the second reading of these policies great So you would if if your absent next meeting are you comfortable having this second reading just to be second No first readings because we'll we can't meet until the next into the 18th Right That's it The school committee no Subcommittee meeting sorry. I'm sorry march 18th. No march 18th subcommittee meeting 6 30 p.m In the superintendent's office nothing from policies at our next meeting. Okay. No, well second reading of these things That's it great All right, anything else for policy? Any other subcommittee reports? No, okay Moving on we have a special guest in the house. Glory and miss. I'm Motion to remove problematic needs report of the arlington high school from the table Second all those in favor say hi. Hi all those against okay, moving on then to Programmatic needs report of the arlington high school if I might invite to the table Miss lory holes architect the firm of h m F h Cambridge Well, we're getting the um The presentation set up. Let me just give you A little background of where we are in this process. I know there's been a lot of discussion over this year. In fact Last year as well in terms of What are the facility needs of this district and very specifically the facility needs of arlington high school? As you were well aware of when we went through the accreditation process While the new england association of college schools and colleges were very Laudatory about what was going on in the building educationally They were also expressed concern about the facilities and how the that the the building itself Were not aligned with really the the level of teaching that was going on and and perhaps even prevented Teachers from doing more than that they could just because of the some of the constraints As a result of that the NAAC Has placed the high school on a warning status Which means that over the next 10 years because accreditation happens every 10 years is during that period of time there'll be Reports that are need to be made, but at the end of those 10 years when we are again looking at accreditation Without any kind of movement for it on that issue. It does Present the possibility I'm not saying definitively, but the possibility of not being accredited because of facilities So that that's one aspect of this Last year we also had a report done on the From the engineering firm on site insight About what the mechanical and engineering needs of the district of the school are And that report you have it at your place. It's also for those watching this evening That report is on the district website. In fact, if you go to the district website And you look on the right hand side, you'll see a h s facilities documents and opening that up you will come to the reports and as we go through this process The report this evening will be put up there and we'll just keep people apprised of any documentation that is relevant To what we are what we are going to need to do for this high school in future years But that's a quick little background, but now that lori's got her presentation. So let me introduce lori a little more formally I lori has the distinction of being the architect that designed the new tomson elementary school And we all know How proud we are of that building. It's really a beautiful building and and Besides the fact that this building Is beautiful Very colorful. It is also was on actually under budget and on time And I I don't know if there's any other building elementary building that was for that size That came in at that price tag either of 20 million. It was really quite Quite an effort on the part of h mfh to make sure that we were getting a high quality building at the same time Met the budget that we had through the building. So Do you want to This is an opportunity to also again publicly thank lori and her firm Which is a it's a great group of people that work together quite well and Really were very helpful to us all and you were a good group to work with Well, thank you It was a great committee. I have to say So when we were looking at where we are here, we we have the n a a a s c Accreditation issues But we also have looked at this building From the point of view of infrastructure Alley's in high school has not had a major renovation since the late 1970s. In fact, I think it was 1978 Now that doesn't mean that there haven't been repairs Over in the building. In fact, in the last few years, we've had to replace two of the sixth boilers So there's been different things is that that but it's always been responsive To a particular need or problem or emergency or whatever that these these these needs have been met So while we have the Infrastructure we were looking to take another lens at this building and that is What are the programmatic needs of building in other words in what ways Does the building Constraint teaching and learning or what things could we be doing better if we had unimproved facility And so it was to that end that we hired the firm of hmmf age to do a programmatic review of the high school and That's what you're here tonight to hear so Lori's going to give the presentation and I'm hoping that we'll follow with a lot of lively questions Lori, let's send this over to you. Okay Thank you that close enough to this So we've structured it around The following topics just an overview of the school I know all of you have been there multiple multiple times over the years. So not too much detail And getting into the more of the the meat of the topic, which is the programmatic study Which also includes a whole piece about safety and security and a brief a brief discussion about the facility condition and then Another sort of brief outline of where the school department sees the enrollments and projections going and you know all of those things tie into the need whether you're out of room or the The roof needs to be replaced all of them add up to the level of need of the school So again, I know you all are very familiar And i'm learning all the the lingo so our oldest building is this piece over here Which is the fusco house and it's 100 years old this year And so i'll stop there and say we all know that in the last 100 years education has changed quite a bit Then and it's hard to know exactly but the the front whole piece here is referred to as column house And that was in the 1930s and i'll admit i was one of the same people who also thought that was the older piece I mean it's just so distinctive in front And then obviously i've learned differently, but again 1930s was Eight you almost 80 years ago education has changed a lot And then the last pieces came in in the back here referred to as downs house and that was in the 60s as kathy referred to There was some work done in the 70s You know again more renovation type work, but the major Pieces are those components there And it's even interesting looking at from an aerial sort of the the conditions of the different moves You can tell when one was replaced you know things like that It's it's all right there in the picture and again just for orientation for anybody The mass av is down the bottom of the page and all of your fields are at the top of the page It's a very big complex. It's close to 400,000 square feet, which I would say is one of the biggest high schools in our state And because of that there's a lot of terrain for the kids to cross through and pass every day, so we'll talk about that The building being that large it's not fully Occupied by the high school Over the years different programs have morphed and changed And other other spaces have been Added to the building So this tried to graphically show all of the floor plans So there's there's seven levels excuse me six levels to the building and As you are probably very aware We're in one of those spots right now and that is that the school administration is in part of the high school There's also a preschool program that takes over several areas of the high school That's at the the lower level. Oopsie wrong button The lower level in blue down here is all the preschool program. There are town offices here There's a district school district wide and townwide storage use facilities here There is a lab Collaborative program and again speaking to all of the school committee You all know what that is for and that and that actually holds a pretty good chunk of the space right here And the other thing that I'd like to point out a lot of the building is Underground let's just say and so for instance when you're looking at this this main facade of the building here What's called the first floor Everything that's under here has no windows. It's underground. It's under the building And so back in the day when something like this block right here, which is almost 8 000 square feet was a Auto You know wood working metal working shop, you know all of that kind of stuff No one really minded them being without windows and and they were an elective And he sort of came and went out of those spaces and nowadays there's sort of requirements for natural light for You know fully occupied classroom spaces So so it is interesting to sort of take that almost 400 000 square feet and start to think about how it's really being used right now It's not to say that if all of those other functions could go somewhere else How would the high school use it? I mean these are all questions to be asked and answered as the study goes on in the future But it is interesting to think about how the building is being used and broken up And there's a lot of little little green dots here and there which are again district-wide office spaces So We sort of divided the report and you've all had it and hopefully had a chance to at least give a First review Into the following categories to try to To grapple with the different types of programmatic needs that you may have So size and configuration quantity and quality of the spaces the technology and other types of needs adjacencies and size and Just overall space needs so sometimes people say well I need one more of this classroom space and that's that's sort of that idea but all of these sort of come together to Make a functioning school building, you know, if you get it right, you know, you have it right and everything flows and works very well so And this is just a graphic that says this is the high school's Use of the space and it's just divided up color coded between academic shared use spaces and support spaces And one thing that I think it's a little hard to see on here, but we'll talk a little bit more about it We've put little dark asterisks and a lot of rooms Where in fact We call them the obstructed view rooms. So they've been highlighted and marked on here again. It's in your handout For the more specifics and we'll talk about them in a moment so Looking at Did I go the right direction? Yeah so Looking at the first piece size and configuration. So this gets back to the fact that this is a very large school building And inherently in a large building that means that, you know, kids have to get from one point to another and that's That can take some time and you only have a couple of minutes between classes So I always like to look at thinking about a student who has to get from the the fifth floor of fusco where the World languages are All the way down and out and through and out to a further corner of downs for their math class And so I'm assuming at some point they're They're almost running and I'm also assuming and I've seen it A lot if it works that way depending on where they're going from a to b They cut through that library space if anyone's ever witnessed that as well Really disruptive for the library. I mean the library Feels less like us based and more like a pass through a lot of the day So what this is also showing all in blue is all the circulation So again because of its size because of the three different iterations plus other, you know changes over the years We counted and I'm not kidding. You have 20 flights Full-on flights sets upstairs in this building And we also did a rough takeoff on the computer over 5700 linear feet of corridors It's a lot And again, there are big high schools, but this is definitely one of them And it adds to sort of the complexity of the of the of the project and of the school day So that's that's really the highlight of what we're trying to show here is Really how much of this building is taken up by circulation? How much of the building is currently taken up by other program use? And again in rough numbers, you know, the actual academic space being used by the high school is something just over 200 000 And It's spread out. So you've got you know 200 000 worth of net program space in a 400 000 Square foot bucket, you know, and so it's really spread out and again, that's where you see sort of the the needs of Organizing the building Making it a clear and understandable building for the students I mean, I'll be honest, you know, I had floor plans in my hand I was walking around with the superintendent with the high school principal I'm an architect. I understand floor plans And I was completely turned around. I'm like, where okay. Oh, okay. So we're over here And then at some point they said, okay, we're we're going this way now and you have to go. Okay. How do I get that way? I mean and granted over time these kids know what they're doing. They all they all figure it out but it's not easy And um, I witnessed another individual which you all know who came in for a meeting I'm sure he's been in this meeting and building a million times and he's like, how do I get there? He was even asking so I felt a little better So it is it is a complex building to navigate to navigate for visitors and students alike The next another thing I just briefly want to touch on you have to imagine that You know annually you're paying to Maintain this building whether it's cleaning on the daily weekly basis or the energy You know efficiency of the building and paying for the lights and the heat and so there's just a level of inefficiency With the overall mass of the building if it's not being fully utilized in an effective way So again, that's something that would get more into detail as you move forward in your process to really learn what that's all about So quantity and quality So currently I think everyone would would understand just sort of saying that you have x number of science room In fact, you really need more of those. So that that's something that's that's easy to Put your hands on but then when you start thinking about the quality of the spaces So You see in three three of these rooms The three different classrooms. They're showing the example of when there's a free standing structural column in the middle of the space You know what is happening in these rooms if you look on the upper left I don't know what that little floating box is but that's okay What's happening in these rooms is because the column is here and the teaching wall is behind there. You see a big gap of Nothing because no one can actually sit there. And so all the kids are either Smushed over to one side of the room or over to the other side of the room and we've you know, I spoke to a number of the teachers and even then it's a little bit of You know, both for the instructor as well as the students and You know, I don't know if you can really tell from from looking at these The students desks are You know all but right on top of each other I mean, I would imagine that a lot of cases they sort of have to move the desk get in move the desk back Again, it's because you know, the size of the room is what it is But it's not all usable and it's not all functional This room here down down on the lower left is a science classroom We'll talk more about that later about just having a cramped space where you're using chemicals and all of that is You know, there's there's studies about how that's a bad idea and then this room The teacher is very creative and she has it working very well for herself, but the room is triangular in shape And so she found that for for what she was teaching and how she was teaching She she has all of the kids Along the perimeter And then she's got a little group table in the middle But again all the kids when they come in they sort of have to move their chair and get to that spot And and it's working for her, but it's certainly not ideal. I think anyone We've all been in classrooms. We were all we were all taught in classrooms We don't have to be teachers to know that this is this is a little tricky So I have a couple percentages and things like that to to talk about that are in the report What we did as an initial sort of understanding is we compared sizes of spaces in The high school here with what the msba space guidelines are today for high schools and In fact only 23 of the general classrooms at arlington high school meet the minimum requirement of what msba Would recommend that your general classroom should be And then on a separate note the science rooms, which we're just sort of touching on how they're crapped The science classrooms on average are about a thousand square feet msba's recommended high school science classroom is 1440 square feet So we already that's already says okay. They're they're under the size Lay around the fact that msba guidelines assume A class of 23 students and the majority of the high school science classrooms are anywhere from 28 to 30 So the room is smaller. There's more kids in the room And not only obstructions But what it's what it's creating and again having heard from the science teachers, you know, it creates They literally have to make a decision Can I do this experiment The way I would like to do this experiment with all the students hands on and doing What they what I would want them to be doing or in fact have I you know, this is an unsafe situation We're not going to do it that way and they'll do a different something else I mean, you know the education is happening a lot of times They'll do the experiment up in front of the class for the whole class to see and and so on But it's sort of is is stymie's hands-on learning And and what you'd like to see happen Um And then again referencing that previous slide all the asterisks Just taking all of your classrooms 20 of the current classrooms have some form of obstruction Or a regular shape or you know and different things like that that sort of Hinder the teaching and learning process Um The the next slide is um, I've called the technology and other necessary features You know things like you know power and data and wireless and water and Uh updated equipment. So just to and again If you saw how many pictures I went through today I'm not even sure who ran around the building and took these pictures It's credit to Dave Moore Who teaches photography in the school A perfect person So um, but I had a whole whole slew of pictures to choose from but um, what I've got on the upper left is um Science room and so this here is the fume hood In this area here, you can just see, uh, it's kind of chipped and broken the shower head and the eye wash Um, I'm going to assume that it all works But I can tell you having you know done a number of high schools in recent years That's pretty antiquated equipment Um So looking at things like just you know built in equipment and having it being updated This picture speaks for itself You have wires going up the wall And down and around you have something trying to keep the wires on the floor So no one trips over them and around This is this is common And the other thing that he didn't get a picture of but it's also equally as common is just his teachers using extension cords Straight and you know taping them down as as best they can and everything again to Get everything they need to plugged in um An inherent problem with the building and its structure, which you know, who would have known this 80 years ago It's so solidly built That it's hard to use or make use of wireless um technology And so it doesn't mean you can't do it But it means that you would need multiples and multiples of wireless locations because you can't span through all that masonry Um, and they've been trying and then looking at different ways of doing this um in the building But it is difficult. It's not impossible. It's just a more costly way because of having to to do what you have to do um So now this is another one that might be a little hard to see so the upper right is also a science room and I was actually there the day when um After the weekend when this teacher was very pleased with himself because he has figured out a way And I want to say politely Jerry rake, um the the ceiling mounted projector in his room And so he went home and over the weekend. He built a plywood platform Cutting good mounted on and hang it from the ceiling and you can see the wires coming across to get to where they need to go um A close-up of it. It's it's quite a little um work of art and so there's just been problems with um again the structure In some rooms. There's the waffle ceiling. It makes it hard to mount things on There's no power there So again, you have to be creative because you gotta get the power to where you want it to be able to run it Um, so so that's that case and then the other thing that's happening in this science room and a number of them These tables as you see them are bolted to the floor And I wish I could say they were bolted to the floor in nice straight rows because they're not even straight rows but but again, there's just no flexibility and so you you don't have the opportunity to Push tables together and have a group of four working together or or any of that type of thing and also, I mean They're pretty snugly put together. So kids are sort of shimmying sideways to get to their space. So so again antiquated but also sort of immovable in a lot of ways and then this picture here You can all guess what that is. It's an air conditioner window air conditioning unit must be at winter time So they've got it all taped up for Keep it blowing in the cold out but You know air conditioning is much more common than it ever was before Again with the warmer swings seasons and the more common use of school buildings throughout the summer months for specialty programs and so on It's just more common to have air conditioning and you certainly would want them to be in your library Your computer labs your administration. Who is there all season? All year long and and and the like so that's just an example of that Um, you know, I could have shown images of you know, acoustic problems and issues You know, I mean, there certainly is a lot of a lot of known understanding about how The acoustic treatment in the space helps our hinders learning and so on So that's technology and other features. There's just a wealth of things that Older buildings just don't have and sometimes are hard to accommodate Without sort of a comprehensive renovation The next one adjacency and size I I found myself using the word adjacency over and over and over when I was talking with the with the faculty It matters it matters what you're next to how easily you can get to another space What's around your space how it all functions and so in a lot of instances throughout the building I put a picture here of Well, it's probably old-fashioned called the home act with the family and consumer sciences One of their spaces and they've got several spaces and they're on multiple floors And really and maybe an ideal world that program would like to actually be near the preschool I mean, there's a lot of things that ideally if they were situated in a in a better configuration It would enhance How they teach and how the teachers, you know able to work with each other Up the upper left picture As you can see are five students That were told by their teacher go find a space to sit and work on this project together And then the stairwell and So again with the changes of of how we teach and how we learn and maybe it's not how we learn It's changed, but it's how we teach to accommodate how we learn There's there's there's a need for What we call either breakout space or small group rooms And so it starts to get into the flexibility of of the facility to have not only Regular size classrooms with smaller spaces and larger spaces because there's different ways to learn and and and So you as a teacher you might want to say To your class I want to break you up in groups and I want you to work on these things You know in a small group, but your classrooms a little too small So if you broke them up in group, they're going to be sort of almost on top of each other So you make the decision to go out and find a spot in the hallway But ideally there would be some small group breakout spaces For this to happen in I don't seem to mind of course, but but again, it's it's it's thinking about that The The lower left I I spared you all pictures of the bathrooms. I didn't want to get into that. So it's just a The doorway to one of the bathrooms We sort of did a rough count and a rough calculation and again not surprising that there's not enough of the facilities You know per today's code but the other the other well the couple different issues the other issue is that they're not Dispursed where you need them and That has lend let let itself to a lot in a lot of cases that hold downs building the bathrooms are out the furthest far end of the corridor by themselves And I'm going to repeat the word by themselves as an issue because they're sort of Not monitored You know not able to be easily monitored because they are like they're beyond the corridor doorways. They're almost to the stairwell by themselves that actually happens in this building too as you're all familiar with going around the corner here and I mean, that's that that can be a big deal. I mean, it's it's just it's not an ideal situation No bathrooms don't want to be the middle of everything, but they want to have Activity around them. So there's cause for others to be walking by and monitoring What's happening? And the upper right image is just a cramped classroom. So we already talked about square footage in size You know, this is this is actually one of the irregular classrooms. It's probably hard to tell on there But it's actually got two smaller wings one off to the upper part of the page and one to the Right part of the page. So they're kind of just unusable in this case in this room It looks like the snowboarding club If you have one or whatever they might be, there's a lot of Tall things that look like snowboards to me being stored in this corner And and you know that the teacher can't really teach in that corner I mean, she can't get to those students anyway. So if again, the desks are, you know, close together To the middle And again, it's the right size and it's also the right location to each other another good example We were able to put in there has to do like the music spaces You know, so you have the auditorium on one floor and one, you know, band on another and course on another and then the The backdrop stage sets are being built somewhere else And so the students are walking around with instruments up and down floors and again It's just it's like it's part of the school day and everyone's used to it But you know in a more modernized facility, you'd have A performing arts music sort of looking all together So So space needs I'm sure the list is a lot longer than I got to when I in just my brief time with the faculty and the principals and everything but We'll get there. So so some of the the the hottest topics were The upper right is the library. So not only is it a pass through but it also has obstructed view columns The lower right is a different group of kids So you're you are aware that this happens in more than one case and they chose the corridor floor again doing an assignment So small group rooms varied but variable size rooms and spaces The left is the science classrooms. I think that Between the obstructions the antiquated and the overall size And number of them because surely one other solution is you keep them all that size and you build more of them And you have smaller classes in those spaces. So they're right sized For the number of students that are in those spaces. So again, there's a lot of different ways of accommodating it in the upper left Is lunchtime Which was just daunting to me there's there was a whole slew of pictures of the kids, um, you know, sort of infiltrating at once and Again, you're all familiar but the the cafeteria is very unique in that it has a stairwell in the middle of it And um, it's also, uh, you know It's it's open to other sort of Spaces that want to be quiet during the day, you know And we're actually a you know, big proponent of the cafeteria being a central sort of space because otherwise It's only used for an hour and a half in the day and then it's not really useful But at the same time it needs to when it's what it's adjacent to Needs to not mind the noise of the of the lunch period and so on um, and because of that sort of obstruction in the middle it's it's It's a task to monitor it keep an eye on everybody when you've got I don't know what the math is if we've got 250 kids at lunch period or whatever the number is it's a lot so um So the next piece has to do with safety and security. Um, this one, um We we tried to identify first of all we circled and flagged all the exterior doors and We count 50 locations and that's not 50 door swings. That's 50 locations So say your front doors And under the under the columns. That's one two three four five six. That's that's not that was sort of one location This is a lot of doors That you know to the exterior and the building and the red dots. Um, we spent some time with the um assistant principal and You know, where your problem areas? And The the real key problem areas are stairwells corridors Bathrooms those are like, you know, so if I just lump them as as three main, um Areas and so what happens? In a stairwell every stairwell has a top and a bottom And that aren't really busy and actively used a lot and so kids can hang out and uh Some stairwells more than others because some really are hardly ever used um, but they they they have that capacity of you know, if they're not heavily used and you can sort of Tuck yourself the upper left here picture, you know, basically go down here. There's nothing happening. There's stops there and I could I could be down there all day kind of a thing unless somebody goes by and why would someone go by because the only thing down here I think that's the boiler room um, the picture on the lower left is just one example of A circulation path that doesn't really have anything off of it So it gets a point A, you know from point A to point B But there aren't classrooms and adults there off of that and there's a number of those that wrap around the building if I go back here um, one one big example is coming around, um I always get lost on which floor I'm on this thing. This is just a corridor That wraps around here again to get somewhere But you know, there's a lot of light and glass and and all of that and But there's nobody there seeing what's going on or people are hanging out or or anything So the the one on the right was the best picture I could come up with but um The the pa system public address system The the bells if we're going to use the word bells, which I think is a very polite word for the jarring noise It happens between classrooms the ability to communicate Throughout the building the fact that there's no phones In every single classroom, which is where they should be for communication and and and all of that So this this I believe, you know was once upon a time the whole system and the clocks has been moved elsewhere and That's a speaker and the heat and an electrical switch, but um you know it it's You know the just the importance of being able to communicate You know the adults to be able to communicate throughout a building like this Can't can't be you know Oversated and the lower right. I'm back to the science again not to be a heartbeat, but but the the issue of just um Creating a safe environment where you are using Um chemicals and and the and the like um You know, that's just a very you know a focused issue. I think um overall, um Let me flip the page here. I'm sure I'm not forgetting anything You know it is just a function of the overall mass and size of the building and its layout. I mean there's There's always multiple ways to monitor and to take care of things and all of that and that happens Throughout the school day. It's just it's almost work You know on top of you know doing what you want to be doing which is teaching the students, but um There's a level of of activity that needs to happen in this building I cite an example of you know, basically the ability of None of the exterior doors are on a security alarm system. So you have no way of knowing if a door is propped open And so lo and behold they've been known to get propped open and when the gym teacher comes back on a monday morning He can tell that people have been in the building over the weekend because you know one of the doors One of the multitudes of doors have been propped open on a friday and they came in and hung out and again, you know Teenagers will be teenagers. It's not really about that. It's the fact that the building You know needs to be better secured. I mean all the doors lock but again, it's a lot of doors to keep an eye on and um, Certainly in any modernization or upgrade to the building all the doors would be on a security alarm system You'd know if a door wasn't locked. You wouldn't be able to alarm the system if it wasn't locked In shot So I think I'm going to stop there. Oh, no, I have one more. Sorry. It's stuck with me for one more slide This was just me trying to put some quick bullets I mean, if you you know, we know we have a building that's Over 50 years old over 80 years old 100 years old Just knowing those numbers anyone would be able to assume the systems Are old and the finishes are old and that things need to be updated. So whether it's mechanical electrical Plumbing all of those types of systems and over the years things have happened and been updated little by little Accessible toilet room here and things like that But it's a it's a big undertaking and There's a lot of old equipment and Kathy referenced a couple boilers have been replaced and this is an ongoing thing security upgrades not the least of which we're talking about the the doors and That type of thing technology upgrades we've talked about, you know, the whole sort of Building envelope roof windows doors Again the energy efficiency of that When you have the older windows, especially these beautiful massive for large ones, which led in lots of light But they're also not necessarily the most energy efficient windows. So a lot of heat is going out Finishes everything from, you know, there's been various attempts to protect corridor walls Not necessarily very successful, you know, so the walls are easily banged up Flooring appropriate acoustic treatment in the spaces and on the ceilings And then accessibility upgrades we all know we just want an elevator in the building It doesn't get to every floor level. It certainly isn't convenient to every part of this large complex A building of this side would have multiple elevators You know and so on so there's a lot of pieces to the accessibility from the auditorium seating to bathrooms and handrails and all of that And I think that again, you've all had a chance probably to look at the onsite insight report What we try to do is Explain what the onsite insight report is and what it isn't and Really, it's a it's a tool that is very useful and very helpful for School facilities to Think about and plan future expenditures It it looks at sort of a 20 year cycle and in year five you need to do this and so on It does not look at educational needs. It does not look like Structural implications. It does not look at a full on The upgrades I tried to highlight in in our report just some of the things that have been talked about and written about That is not covered It it doesn't It doesn't look at I mean, you know, even in the report it cites It flags, you know, again, this is a very useful tool for for mark and for diane It flags, you know, there's water infiltration So you might want to put a couple thousand dollars into investigating that It doesn't say it's going to cause x to fix it because no one knows what the x is so You know, it's just it's there needs to be a differentiation between This sort of facilities maintenance tool and a full on either renovation renovation edition new construction Looking at the whole complex as a fees in a feasibility study With the assistant of the state funding program and doing a project so I think we wanted to Be sure that we expressed that it acknowledged all the work that was done in that and that it's useful for what it is for But that that understanding is that it's it's a very small piece And it doesn't really get at a lot of other things that I mean, I guess my my sense is if I was spending 30 million dollars I'd want us think that you were really getting somewhere and if it really isn't getting anywhere What does it take to get somewhere and look at this complex which is at the heart of arlington And think about it in terms of What you know, what can I do now that's good for 50 years and it's possible? I mean, that's that's what you want to be looking at and certainly we can see that Building stands for longer than 50 years since we're in one and then And we have just one slide that just touches upon moments. Diane wants to In terms of the enrollment, you've seen You've seen Other iterations of this enrollment sheet and it too is in the dot for those watching at home It is among the documents on the high school building What I've done is you know, we we use a Five-year weighted average to see how many children progress from one grade to the next And we use the most recent history of the last five years to inform what we think is going to happen into the future I've taken those projections typically I only do them forward in time for four for five years Because that's all the birth information I have They aren't born yet past five years into the future But in this case since we're thinking about the high school I took the children that either are already in our schools or are already born and living in town And use the existing numbers to push forward into time And as you see as we roll forward in time The much larger class sizes we're enjoying in the elementary school are rolling their way up into the high school And if we're feeling cramped at where we are today we're 1254 when we start hitting 1600 Down the road and and this isn't This isn't as speculative as trying to guess what our kindergarten class will look like in 10 years these are children that are here either in the schools or Living in town not yet ready for school. So these numbers to me feel less speculative I mean, it's hard to say what will happen your your future casting But I feel like we have to take very seriously The whether it's going to mean when all the kids at the elementary schools start colliding With these much much larger classes I mean by classes I mean cohorts going through a grade rather than in a teacher in groups in front of a teacher Unless you probably call them cohorts All right Back to that so Any questions from the committee members Mr. Hinner I just heard a number that you threw a dollar figure. You said 30 million dollars That's that's that's that's that's that's okay. Oh, yeah, okay It was 30 million irregular and 30 million green I just want to make sure that the public knows that that we're not building a brand new high school for 30 million dollars I want to make that clear. That's all Thank you Do you want her excuse me? Do you want her to talk a little bit about her experience in Cambridge kind of projects? Yes, please. Yeah, that would be my question. So, yeah, exactly okay By saying that hmfh was the architectural form firm That did the renovation and some additions at Cambridge Ringe in latin That was just completed in what 11 Yeah So I tried to in the report use sort of the two examples One I went to the MSBA's database of work that's been completed and You know monkey you're out with a little bit because it's all been told numbers and you know There's escalation and construction costs changes And also the fact that I don't know what was done on those projects. So I can't directly compare and say This is a scope that's similar to because I just I just don't know and um You know just just Doing what I did and again, I have a whole paragraph in here to try to explain what my my math was all about You know, it's about a hundred million dollars. That's that's just and again I don't know what I'm comparing it to exactly but at least it says This is on average what's happening In school buildings in the last, you know, five years or whatever it's been that MSBA's been keeping their records six years So that was that was one one sort of example and then um I was able to be more specific in terms of I know what was done at Cambridge Ringe in latin Um And taking those square footage now at Cambridge Ringe in latin The bones of the building was in good shape and it's again a solid building and again very similar to you all They weren't just gonna go up and move somewhere else in a different part of Cambridge. There was no place for them to go And uh, we renovated it. It was uh 400 000 square feet Um In earlier phases we'd renovated their field house and their warp the war memorial. Um, and so that's different square footage and we did not um, You know Rearranged spaces and reconfigure anything it was more The the roof and the windows mechanical upgrades lighting upgrades Uh Some, you know, uh fixtures and things like that in terms of um, like science rooms I think that's one of the main things we did do and actually as far as any space configuration We took we took walls down in between two spaces to make better sized science classrooms um but And so in that case, you know, I would say that you were getting closer and again in comparing to that type of scope More like 110 million dollars and again, that's just assuming you're going to start a project any day now, which you know, that's all to be determined um so You know, it's it's and it's also You know not knowing, you know, the all the comparisons of reimbursement rates and all of that So there's a whole lot of other numbers and stuff to go in there. Um You know, I I felt comfortable and again, you know, it's it's don't shoot the messenger as the saying goes because Anybody in my position would be coming up with these round numbers for digestion and all of that Um, but that you know, you easily could be anywhere between 90 and 130 million And you know I don't you know, what could happen beyond that it all depends it depends on when the project happens what the scope is What the decisions are And the thing that you need to know is that one of the main things you do when you first start the project in the Feasibility study phase is you look at all the different options and you look at all the different numbers and you're able to see And compare the difference between if we do this it costs x and this is what the end result is And you know and that that is the time when you sort of have the decision-making process that says You know, where are we comfortable in the dollar? Where are we comfortable with what our end result is and what we have for a facility moving forward? um And so you know, I think that it's just it's it's a range. I mean we all know that newton north cost 200 million dollars So no one should be too shocked that there's big numbers out there and newton north is not a bigger facility than this one you know, so so um I wish I had off the top of my head. I can't remember what what's happening at conquered carlough Because they've got a big high school too. I don't know what their number is these days it it stopped and started but anyway, so You know and and we were just talking about is it winchesters? No, yeah You know, so I mean the examples are all around. I think that Uh, it is it's you know, it may sound right. It's an investment. This is this is it. This is your high school and You know, you can keep putting small amounts of money on it and to it and toward it and over the years But I will tell you that you can spend that smaller amount of money But msba is not going to help you with that You're not going to get support from the state funding agencies to do that They want to put their money, which of course is a lot of our money But the money that they're in control of putting out there They want to put it towards what they believe is a good investment And that's why they have you go through all the steps with the feasibility study And they're in you know, they're on board with you that's and they'll agree with you that says yes That's the best choice. That's how you should use your money And so we try to use the percentage that we had at at Thompson, which is should be similar and with a The 52 percent reimbursement and so on You know, again, it's not exactly 50 50, but if the state's going to give you half of something They're going to make sure that they believe it's a good investment and that you're putting the money Where you should be and that you the outcome is that you're not going to come back to them knocking on their door In 15 years that you need something else They'll think Arlington high school is all set. We don't have to worry about that project for the Indefinite future, right? And so that's really what they're thinking about. They don't want to just give you money to do patchwork things They just they won't do that Thank you, great. Good to see you again laura Laura and I worked together on the tomson project The question I have is, you know, first of all The 90 to 100 million 130 million dollar figure very preliminary. I think anyone watching Don't get hung up on any number Don't get attached to any number because it will change many times And as you said, we went through a feasibility process with the tomson There were multiple options out there. We settled on one that we could afford My question is based on what you've seen in this high school and based on your experience with the msba Could you give us a sense of our chances of having a successful sny with the msba? I'm asking a handicap, but just based on what happens what happens with the msba each year is that they look at everything that's there And so You know, your your your chances, you know, are variable depending on who else is put in and what their problems are And and so that's what you're seeing. I mean, I think it's is it water town or waltham one of them You know had difficulty and so it's not to say that they don't have needs I can almost guarantee you msba is not looking at them and saying, oh, you don't have any problem We don't have to worry about you. It's sort of saying in comparison to the other 25 school buildings We're looking at that are worse off for whatever reason enrollments facility condition whatever the case may be So so that's something that I really I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I think in terms of Um, it's condition. It's not the worst building in the system But it's not in great shape in terms of enrollment. You haven't expected enrollment growth that you're going to have to manage um, in terms of the educational needs which You know, keep in mind msba's Strong supporter of making sure that you solve the educational needs You have plenty so, um, I mean, I think you have a very good chance of being You know in it put in the system and Again, I have no way of predicting so and I think that you know, it's a matter of If not this year you go back next year. I mean, that's that's what everybody has to do My next question is the time frame tonight we adopt language for the xoi correct and then We approve we take a vote don't wait to take a vote tonight too Yeah, well you could take a vote tonight is we talked about last meeting We're written s a lot and we're certainly inviting comment on it But there is a very specific language that you must approve The only issue with the particular language Is what the data submission is going to be We know our Latest you can you can put it in their their system as April 11th Now we debated a little bit earlier whether we could say, you know Put the date in later amended You could do something where you wait on the specific language and you basically do sort of a A vote of support for where we're going But you could also do the language tonight and if we I put in the motion March 26th That could be amended at a different meeting if that wasn't going to be a specific state that we put it in You know, we have to in order to submit a statement of interest to msba Not only does the school committee have to approve the language But the board of staff one does as well And they're going to hear lori's presentation our sort of collective overview of this on monday Um, I I think that they're going to schedule a vote on the 24th of march After they have a chance to take all the materials they're getting your your large packet tomorrow in their packet as well So they'll have a chance over the weekend to take a look at it, but they probably want to Spend a little more time on that than that So we do have some time on this so so don't confuse the two things there's language we vote and in the language We indicate what are the priorities that we're submitting this for and we're submitting it for four of the seven possible uh priorities Mr. Just just let me finish the training thought so I don't want to preempt to discuss the commerce the questions of lori but So we could vote this tonight you could vote this tonight with the possibility of ending that one date later So that's I don't think that's a big deal the the other question I have is Could you just explain to the public and the committee? The once the so I is submitted all along. What's the timeframe for response? well I've come to understand that this they may make a decision fairly soon within about a month I think only because they're having a meeting in Later in may for people who've been accepted for next year But so I think one more fairly quickly And then you go into a 270 day period or up to 270 days in which there's a number of requirements that you have to fulfill in that 270 days And then You know you go into the next phase and lori has been through all of these as well as we have been in in tomson It's a very prescribed process that you go through that have Time straints on it and things you need to accomplish in those periods of time one of which in that next 270 is securing the funds for to do the feasibility study and I don't know what the dollar amount would be on that would be something we'd have to look at what that would be Probably I would guess maybe in the main dollar Area about that Yeah That day completely answered you guys mr. Schlick okay I want to go down two paths here. The first path is Okay, so the state says yeah, this seems like a reasonable thing to do uh, I mentioned the difficulty of Doing a building while we're running school We don't have a lot of room on this site To to go beyond the present footprint of the building Can you give us a sense of what? The construction would actually look like if we did a major rebuild renovation And how we've managed to run school in that situation um so You know again that will be part of the feasibility study because it has to be feasible meaning not only Financially and good end result, but that you actually can accomplish it during the time frame that needs to be accomplished and and so on So certainly occupied site Construction, it's it's not unheard of it happens all the time I can give you the example at cambridge ringe in latin. They fortunately had a building the ninth grade lived elsewhere And so that they were able to move around and do it in Don't ask me how many phases off the top of my head, but a number of chunks and phases So, you know, that's an example of a full-on renovation and an urban You know snug sites with a lot of kids and so You know what what happens when you're looking in the feasibility phase and it always surprises people but Multiple phased occupied sites renovations take longer So your escalation and your costs go up And so that's what you're going to start to see when you start to compare different scenarios and options for the work So it's not impossible. It needs to be managed. It needs to be planned for You know incrementally every step of the way so everyone knows what they're getting into And so how it would be done on this site would would need to be determined Whether some some program vacates the site a grade vacates the site An addition happens somewhere and then something else is demolished and people move over I mean, there's you know, again, we went through this on tomson because At the early stages of tomson there was no place for the kids to go and so our initial again Many fewer fewer amount of students to worry about but same idea You know, how how would we do this if they were here? So it is it's just it's an added step in the process, but it would have to it have to be done because again You know, you're not going to up and leave the site and go somewhere else as far as I can tell. Um, that's not feasible You know, you don't have a lot of somewhere else Exactly I'm thinking we'd end up demolishing a part of the building that doesn't have a lot of classrooms and build a An intensive classroom when you're in that section of the school and rotate it around that way Is just the way I look at it logistically But uh, I'm certainly not an expert and I don't do that for a living The other the other question we're being hit with is we're also taking a look at enrollment projections and getting nervous about the middle school And people have asked me Could we come in with an 8 through 12 school? Would that be feasible and looked at by the State as a possibility to solve two problems? Absolutely Absolutely, and that has happened in other communities Um, because the way you said it is exactly how they would think of it. Oh, good They're not going to be knocking on my door for the middle school next year Do you know what I mean? Like again, they want you to be looking at your whole system and being comprehensive So that when they do give you money, it's solving what needs to be solved And so, um Again, you don't have to say that that's exactly what you're doing, but you know grade Reconfiguration or restructuring is certainly a common Um element to look at in the feasibility study or an outcome that comes later So the state's pretty opinionated on what we can do Um, well You know again, they're they're they're looking at the money that's coming out of their pocket And making sure it's the right way same same way you all are so again If it's the right way, it's the right way. I mean everybody will agree I mean, I haven't I haven't worked on a project yet where The community is kicking and screaming. I don't want to do this project. I mean, it just doesn't work I mean, you know, ultimately, uh, the best Most logical responsible thing to do prevails Yeah, the only the thing is is that you know at this point people are asking What are we going to do? What's it what's it going to look like? What's the disruption going to be what's going to happen and we don't have the answer because We have to entice the state by presenting a need statement. That's essentially what we're doing. It's step one Step one is demonstrating the needs and it's not until they say Yes, you have a need And we need and we will help you That we can actually start thinking about what we might do to solve the need. So we're saying yes No one can help themselves from starting to think about it earlier. I mean, that's what you all do I mean, you're all you're all you know, you're knee deep in all of this. Of course, you're going to think about it But again, it's it's doing it in that sort of full methodical way And you know becomes sort of you know Initial steps about this do really look like a brainstorming session. Well, what about what about what about? I mean, that's again, you have to start Sort of thinking about everything and then narrow it to the more appropriate choices and yeah The point is the state wants to be in the what abouts because when we did five of our Elementories and the middle school it was under the older rules where we decided what we wanted to do Put it in an application wait for it to come top of the list It would be automatically funded at the 63 have a nice life So the process is very different and that that's just something important for everybody Who's been through previous debt exclusions and building projects to really understand. Good point Yeah, yeah other members miss haim um I just wanted to thank you for the presentation because as one of the many parents in this community that has actually sit in that triangle room on parent nights and Raced up three flights in across the bridge that goes past the Auditorium where nobody does see you and hope that we were arriving at the right floor at the right time There are a lot of rooms we sat in we couldn't we couldn't see The instructor, you know, this is something that is dire for our children and And so you really captured that need well I I obviously want to give dr. Allison am be a chance to Talk as well, but I'm wondering if there was anything from preventing us from Forwarding this at this point because it does still need the select thens vote And if we push this off to another meeting, it seems like we don't only set the timeline back either further There wouldn't be a timeline issue there. They can be done separately. You could do it after this Port of select they just need to and the approval of the language from both entities There's nothing to prevent you from voting this tonight and still continue to improve the SOI Mm-hmm You don't because you you have the first draft I think it's a pretty complete draft because one of the one of the things we did learn from msba in this process is that They prefer To have you quote the experts Now there's some parts of it that we we did our you know, obviously wrote Ourselves but to the extent that we could quote that that matched the question We did and also you'll find because what we will A lot of people will probably start reading this When you have four priorities Some of the questions are the same So you find that you're there's a lot of repetition and that's just the way it is because somebody could put in a application for one priority And they're going to touch on the same issues as well that are relevant to that particular priority so the so the SOI could still be improved, but it doesn't prevent you from making a motion tonight and voting to have this the SOI submitted By the deadline of april 11th to the the massachusetts school building authority And what were you you were saying about the priorities? Out of the eight priorities seven the seven priorities. There's eight. Oh, it's eight. Sorry There's eight priorities that that we have the potential to select. That's correct. Oh, yeah, all right I'd look at four of them as If we select one of them you can't select the other three for instance if we're looking towards future overcrowding You can't No, you can you can you can you can select any that are applicable Yeah, but we felt that you know, we went with the the ones that we felt were solid and most strong Priority three prevention of loss of accreditation Priority four prevention of severe overcrowding expected to result from increased enrollments priority five replacement renovation or modernization of school facility systems such as roofs windows boilers heating and ventilation systems To increase energy conservation and decrease energy related costs in a school facility Which i'd really love to see happen and priority seven replacement of or addition to obsolete buildings in order to provide for a full range of programs consistent with state and approved local requirements So in essence though as a result of this presentation If we wanted to we also could then select priority one Which says that there is flaws in the condition of the circulation of unmonitored areas that Are affecting the safety of our students Certainly the safety. Yeah Safety part of that is definitely I mean which is perhaps not as compelling as some of the other priorities in terms of the level of safety being affected It's certainly not an unsafe school, but any place in the world having children in a place that they're not monitored I have to admit I when I looked at it when I think of health and safety I think of roofs falling down and you know as best as dripping off the walls and you know I think of a different level of safety. I did not consider egress and You know lack of supervision in the same. I just didn't consider it in the same realm of safety I don't think we have as strong an argument. I think the four we've selected we have a really strong argument for each and every one of them Right, but but I would also venture to say The definition of health and safety prior to what happened in new town This is the definition of health and safety Today are a little bit different because when we hear about doors being left open And that really is a bit more compelling The condition of our science labs as well If a Some of those experiments take actually took place in some of those rooms the ventilation is inadequate if a child Did something inappropriate the safeguards of the shower or the eye wash may not be there You know more about this thing than we do We're just Bringing it up. We're not trying to pack the list. I think we want to make sure we can get as much in there as we can Why don't we Why don't we get this confirmed from msba there's certainly Plenty of you've seen in the programmatic analysis that speak to The health and safety. I must admit that when I I really saw that too as something really dire in terms of The building Is falling down on the other hand. Well, but it does say or structurally unsound or In a condition seriously jeopardizing health and safety. We actually have had chunks of the ceiling Small small little pieces Let me look at that and if we decide, you know after talking with them, they think that this is Would fit what they're had in mind. Yeah. What is it? What are they thinking? We could Certainly there's plenty in our information here to to answer those questions So to that extent you could vote what we have tonight if you wanted to and we could amend it or you could wait until next week Now I don't know if everybody's going to be here and you may all want to have the opportunity But I thought the vote Was not about the actual so I but about submitting But you have to stay which So yes, if we're I'm going to touch on a few things first if we're talking about possibly adding something I think we should just make a motion that we support the submission of an SOI And plan on voting the exact language later Because we don't want to get that wrong Um Yeah, when I look at that when I read structurally on sound I mean to me that's kind of the key point and if that's what they're thinking then it won't but I Like your idea And I think that it may be what we want to make sure is that Throughout the ones that we are doing those points are being made Right, you know what I mean, you know as opposed to just not being made they're being made Regardless, yeah, they certainly are. I mean those points of e-grass and lack of supervision and poor circulation are made throughout the four priorities We've already put in So I would actually That's where I'm not sure when we're going to talk about the actual SOI as opposed to the presentation Because I think some of these points can be made stronger than they are But first I had a couple questions just about the presentation and and about your study Just for facts. What what is the design capacity of the high school? Um Did I do that? I can easily get that number for you I mean taking all square footage assuming all other programs are gone and well, yeah I'm I just want you know when when can we say we're overcrowded? I mean, I know we are Kind of now, but I mean design capacity. I don't think was a hundred years of go concept In terms of you know in the utilization of the buildings changed over time, right? But I'm saying We shouldn't we need to be able to say when we're going to be overcrowded Based on you know, it's based on the classrooms we have and the size of the cafeteria we have Yeah, something. Yeah, or based on the rooms that had pieces of ceiling ceiling fall that we don't utilize now Into those students are in other locations. Yeah, right or the rooms that have no windows and all of that just take those off the table Right. So I'm just you know, because I know how many students we can have at oddison and we're going to be over that in a year or two And I'd like to know where we're at with the high school and I really don't quite know Well, it's it's a difficult. I think it's a difficult question to answer and lori might I disagree or have a for the thoughts on it because Only 23 percent of our classrooms meet the minimum square footage So when they talk about design capacity in a building, they're usually classrooms that are within those ranges Of class size for 23 students I think it would be fine to use the msba criteria And try and figure a way to fudge it You know to follow as closely as we can to their criteria to figure out what our capacity is Never mind what we're actually put stuffing into these classrooms But to figure out where we're at because that's what those are the numbers that they're going to be looking at and I mean we can you can ask them for how do we Assign numbers to classrooms which are below your your size. Do we do it on a Students per square foot or do we just put 23 students into this and say it's overcrowded? But I just I think we want that number Or at least our best guess at it and In one with this i'm also wondering if in your studies or anyone else's studies How much of the space that the town or other programs that could potentially be put elsewhere Could be used as classroom space if if they were moved out And because I think that's another question if we're talking we're worried about being overcrowded It's just going to come up and we need an answer And my suspicion is that an awful lot of the space that's being used by other programs Is not Really useful for classroom space or is not you know, either it's too small or it's in the wrong spot Or it doesn't have the right Entrances and exits and things like that. Um, but again, I think these are things people are going to want to know So but but then the other thing is just when are we Going to talk about the so why or do you just want us all to forward our comments to you? Well, taryn to sony Right Mm-hmm Yeah, that's all for now. Okay, uh, just a few more brief comments Mr. Hayner and mr. Schluckman you you mentioned we have 400, uh, thousand square feet yet in your presentation Educationally, were you utilizing approximately 200,000 square feet? The spaces that we use and the way this building the buildings are configured I as a former educator in the tours that I've been in it really bothered me the triangular rooms and things of that And I appreciate that. Is that a factor should we be That theoretically we have 200,000 square feet that is not educational does msb Look at that Um, I mean, I think Again in the feasibility study, you'll be analyzing the whole building and you'll be analyzing not unlike what you're referring to but also, um You know, they're going to have to be big decisions on Are we going to continue to be part of the lab? Collaborative because that's a commitment that you have made and then therefore you need to provide space for it And msba will understand that I mean they you know, I mean a lot of the stuff is very logical thinking You know, so it's it's looking at what's what's here. I mean your preschool program is here You're not going to not have a preschool program in in town. So where would it go? It wasn't here So there's going to be a lot You know, you're it's a very um, you're very unique situation with what you have happening here and decisions need to be made and I think that um It's it's logical in my mind and having done a lot of these and worked with msba for some time Um That they want to see it both ways All just high school. Everything's gone as your problem where it goes, right? What happens, you know, and and we need to be able to um Defend what needs to be here and why? um, we need to um Be able to show Scenarios different scenarios of how the building would lay out where things would be what would be the more optimal location for things Okay, if they're going to be here Where can they be that maybe they don't interrupt the high school programs? And the high school program can work better and be located in a better situation. So um Again, that's all part of really rolling up your sleeves and being part of the feasibility study is looking at and analyzing the building Buildings in this case, you know, the whole complex and and how the spaces might work So it really is sort of saying, okay, we're throwing everything out the window what you have now what What what are the physical constraints and opportunities in this complex and go from there and see how it could best be laid out Um, and again at the same time there's going to be you know Town and other people sort of going well, what if and what if on their end because you know We might come up with something and they say well, that's a great idea but we've got no place to put that so it has to stay there and um, You know that that's just that's just part of the thinking I mean if you all recall we had certainly a a good stab at putting the preschool over at thompson You know, so again, it has to be somewhere and um, so those are all part of the thinking I think it's it's There's not one way to do it. Absolutely not going to be one way to do it. It'll just be the best way when the end results All right, finish up this conversation I'm listening to dr. Allison answers question and and I just want to hone in on That when we put in the statement of interest And we say we have a 400,000 square foot facility and we've got 1200 kids and we're citing overcrowding is this going to Put us at a disadvantage or we're going to have to explain is something going to happen or will we be able to move forward by somehow documenting That there's so much Unusable space in the building because of the design of the building is is something in the so i going to need to Flag that mathematical discrepancy I mean, I think that would be Certainly worthwhile. I mean you're not going to be able to fully explain it I mean, we haven't done enough to fully explain it But I think acknowledging it is is certainly Understandable and I think that it's not it's not that unique that you have other programs in your space It's not like msba's never seen it before so they're going to sort of deduce That something else is going on and and that's part of again the process once it gets going But I think your point of saying You know make sure to let them know listen. This is the situation. This is the condition There's a lot of spaces that are unusable period for education And a lot of those spaces are now being used by the town We have our storage and things like that and sort of give sort of a brief outline We put some square footages to the different programs that are here Clearly saying we have a lab collaborative program. We have a preschool program. This is where they reside We have administration. This is where it resides and I think the I think the thing that You all and the town collectively needs to be open to is We don't know the answer You know in four years from now this might not be the school committee room. You might be somewhere else I mean that I mean that's how you sort of And it is hard for all of us that are educated and know too much about the building and stuff like that Because you already formulate ideas But you have to go into the feasibility study process with anything's possible It's figure out the best way to do it And and there's going to be the push and back and forth between things and ultimately You come up with The four things that have to be this way and you have to start getting those four things because otherwise you have no parameters But it's it's being open in the beginning and then then coming up with the parameters This has been an excellent presentation. I I think that if The msba gets the sense of what you told us tonight We've got to come rise toward the top of their list because I you know, I've been in some of the other buildings that they're doing And I think our needs are just so substantial compared to somebody other schools that are getting funded right now Mr. Johnson, I just wanted to respond to mr. Schlickman All of these reports that you have in front of you will go in with the so I so they will have her report They will have The onsite insight report. They won't The statement of interest is not the only information they'll receive. It's essentially cover sheet and we're sending in the document Precisely so they will they will have with the diagrams and they will have the whole discussion of this. Yeah, yeah They're getting they get all of that and in fact, they encourage us to attach all of that Quick quick question. Um, is there a square footage per student? that they Generally recommend for a high school level They're used to being okay. I didn't know that's how they figured it out or say it's different now I mean, I could come up with a range because basically, um They used to say that used to say x number square foot per student. So you could just do your math Because I know like when we when we but now it's more great. Yeah, but in the past it was like that's more um There's more of a gradation to it. Sure. And so, um, you start off with their Program template the space program template of all the different spaces and needs and There's you know, there's the column for here's your existing There's a columns in the middle for what you might propose You know, we need 10 science not eight, you know, whatever that might be But the column on the right is their program And all you get to do on that column is in the bottom is you plug in the number of students and it populates the whole column And up to the right of that this is just an excel sheet There's a little teeny number that happens to tell you what the square footage is per but it changes So if I go up or down with the number of students that that percentage that per square foot number changes So it used to be an easy thing to be able to tell you but it changes Okay, I know factoring about how many how big are cafeterias how many lunch programs you have I mean, there's it's a whole formula that they've developed. So Okay, I know that when with certain other programs like our afterschool programs when they are accredited They have to meet, you know, I don't know some random, you know 35 square foot per student in the program they have to have for the program space So I just wondered if the state had a similar, you know, high school students need 150 square feet because On average, you need this many things And that and that was how it was and it's just gotten a little more finite now. Okay. All right. Thank you Also, I had one other question again Wondering if you've run across this as you've done your study Part of the so I asked about site issues and I think the answer that we said was no, but I'm wondering about Mill Brook, which I think runs somewhere underneath the ground very close to the high school or under the high school And Pierce field is not school land, right? It's no, it's ours was a remediation site It's okay. So it's not able to be built on so that better to build a school on it than play football on it I'm just saying that But that comes up in feasibility right, okay Then the other one was just the red gem I heard was was also It was like something's capped and it can't be destroyed or built over So and that's all stuff that would come up in feasibility. Okay, so it's not I just want to get a sense from the committee if the committee thinks itself ready to vote The language That was presented to us tonight or if we want to see if for example miss heimson statement about safety could be incorporated That's a priority within. Um, is that the sense that I've been getting from the committee? I think Kathy should check out that I think you can report to the voter selection that we're going to vote for this I wish we could have voted it because I would have liked to have voted it before they voted You know we could vote it and if we amend and they had number one we can Revote it so I would propose that we voted tonight And and if we need to amend the the guts of it or amend the date we can revote it On the last meeting of the month So let me go and do I have to read the entire motion or should I just you should read them? Okay, I move that we resolve having We pass a motion as follows resolved Having convened in an open meeting on march 6 2014 The earlings and school committee of the town of our linked in massachusetts In accordance with this charter bylaws and ordinances has voted to authorize the superintendent to submit to the massachusetts school building authority The statement of interest form dated march 26 2014 for the earlings in high school Located at 869 massachusetts avenue earlings in massachusetts which describes and explains the following deficiencies And the priority categories for which the application may be submitted to the massachusetts school building authority in the future priority three prevention of the loss of accreditation Priority four prevention of severe overcrowding expected to result from increased enrollments Priority five replacement renovation or modernization of school facility systems Such as roofs windows boilers heating and ventilation systems to increase energy conservation And decreased energy related costs in a school facility Priority seven replacement of or addition to obsolete buildings in order to provide for a full range of programs Consistent with state and approved local requirements and here by further specifically acknowledges That by submitting the statement of interest form the massachusetts school building authority in no way guarantees the acceptance Or the approval of an application Though awarding of a grant or any other funding commitment from the massachusetts school building authority Or commits to the city or to the school district filing the application for funding with the massachusetts school building authority Discussion all those in favor say aye. All right. All those against abstentions Okay, seven zero Any further discussion on this topic dr. Boadie I want to thank Roy polls. Thank you for a perfect presentation and Senator's trial run here this evening. We'll We'll be talking with the board of select one on monday And thank you very much. Thank you all. Have a good night. Thank you We have no further business I'd like to entertain a motion to move into executive session To conduct strategy sessions and preparations for negotiations with union and or non-union personnel Or contract negotiations with union and or non-union with Furchin held in an open meeting may have a detrimental effect And to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining or litigation if in an open meeting They have a detrimental effect on the bargaining or litigation position of the public body And the chair so declares as exiting only for the purposes of adjournment So again Local Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi Very in executive session