 Terrorists named Governors, Senators, Presidency Officials and Sponsors during interrogation, says Naval Officer. And for the innumerous state elections, the security might not just be a problem as much as voter apathy would be, but this is according to Yaga Africa. This is Plus Politics and I am Mary Anacorn. A former Naval Officer Kamada Kunli Olaumi has stated that Boko Haram terrorists mentioned names of current Governors, Senators and Asorok officials as sponsors during interrogation by military authorities. He however said that President Mohamed Abu Hairi's government failed to demonstrate the necessary political will to go after the high-profile politicians for reasons best known to it. Olaumi, who disclosed this during a television interview, also described Tuesday's attack by bandits on Nigerian Defense Academy as an aberration. He lamented that NDA, like other military environments in the country, callously opens its doors to everyone on Fridays for Duma prayers. Well joining us to discuss this and more is Hassan Stan Label. He is a retired military officer. Thank you very much for joining us, sir. Thank you very much. Please. Now, yesterday I spoke to two retired Army officials and the impression they gave me was more like they agreed with the fact that there are actually high-up politicians who are colluding, who are sponsoring terrorism in the country. But the question that was on my mind continuously is, shouldn't these people be investigated? Why are we keeping quiet about this when we are having so many people killed on a daily? Yeah. Thank you very much. I appreciate you bringing me here this evening. The question we have just asked is the same question every patriotic Nigerian is asking. I'm beginning to wonder what sort of a government we have in place. Rather than investigating these guys, or let me say our government is busy creating excuses for them. Okay. Today we find them serving at every level, at a strategic level. Okay. They are there in the cabinet and so on. Pantamis' name has been on air for as long as we can all think of. In better climate, so in places where you have very serious leaders in place, Pantamis wouldn't be sitting on the cabinet. It is unfortunate. We have several Pantamis out there, several. So I wonder if really we are serious about fighting terrorism in this country. But this is not new. But this is not new because I'd like to refer you to the Goodluck Jonathan administration. If you remember vividly during the at the peak of Boko Haram attacks, remember the president himself said that there were, he was aware that there were certain people sponsoring Boko Haram in his government. And then of course the average person would be hoping that these people will be named and shamed, and of course dealt with properly. And that didn't happen. So I'm really wondering, so why are we so surprised that this government, even though we promised to fight corruption, has not done the same? It's a reflection of the character our leadership is made of. Not just this one, even the past one too, it's just that things have gotten worse under this present administration. We thought governance had gone to sleep under the last dispensation. But in this dispensation, governance is completely in a state of coma. So it is just the reflection of the character of our leadership. So I'm asking you as someone who's served this country, someone who's tried to bring peace to the borders and the territory in itself. You've given at least 30 plus years of your life to serving this country. How does it make you feel when we continuously talk about the issue of fighting terrorism? We pay a loss of lip service to it, but then you never get to see action. Many blame the army and many have even accused the army of having moles within it. Some also blame the government because the army takes its orders from the government. The chief of army staff obviously reports to Mr. President, who is the commander in chief. But as someone who's fought for this country, do you think they were really ready to fight terrorism and put an end to it? The army is completely answerable to political leadership. The emphasis of this country is fully subjected to the dictates of the political leadership. So if there is any blame, it force us to robot for the political leadership before it falls on the armed forces. Mind you, this is a democracy. So that is it. But are we really... It is unfortunate. So are we really ready to fight terrorism and put an end to it? Because the president has been talking tough. We remember a few months ago when the presidency declared, you know, a no-fly zone, a shoot at sight. There was some talking tough. We also remember what led to the Twitter ban, the fact that Mr. President's street was taken down. People had been saying that the president had not been speaking and then he decided to talk and that led us to where we are today with the Twitter ban and other issues. So is talking tough enough? I'm still rephrasing my question again. Is it enough? What else do we need to do to really show that this fight against terrorism is something that we really want? And are we making it a front burner issue as we should? You can be talking tough and your body language is saying something else. You can be talking tough and still be seeing every development in the field or within the battle space from a prison of ethnicity, religion, tribalism and what have you. You can be talking tough that way. If you want to be a leader, you be a leader. And as a leader, you see everything objectively. You don't allow your sense of reasoning to be brought by all those sentiments I have just mentioned. In fact, all the very elements that creates weaknesses within our system, religion, tribe, ethnicity and what have you. If you want to talk tough, talk tough and put it through. You don't talk tough today and tomorrow like the 20th of October. You don't talk tough today and people are telling you Mr. A, B, C, G, like Kule mentioned, in his interview that government is aware of some of these guys. How many of them have you been able to pick out? You don't just talk tough within an empty space. When you talk tough, you follow it through. By so doing, you now give your subordinates the belief and confidence that yes, we have to follow through. Look, there is a lot wrong with this administration. So much. And some of us are just tired of talking. Our prayer is it has spent its time already. Let's just wait for the remaining two years or then I'm out. And let them go and let's see the next man coming in with somebody who can run this country. But as much as I feel your pain and distress, I feel the distress in your voice, it also seems like we're part of the problem when we throw our hands up in the air and toss in the towel, hoping that two years would fly by at the expense of how many people who are dying. I mean, do you see the death toll or have we also become very thick-skinned against the numbers? Because now we just hear that 100 have been killed, 500 died. We really, they're now just numbers to us and we no longer value it. And maybe that's why someone like you would say, well, well, let their time pass so someone else will come. But how many more people have to die for that to happen? If you're talking about how many people will see have to die or shall we keep waiting while people are dying? I am in a better position to talk about that. Because I am from a highly vulnerable area. I am from southern Kaduna, where the genocide we talk about in Nigeria is currently ongoing as we speak. As we speak on a daily basis, I lose, I lose relations. As we speak on daily basis, in Lagos, I receive news. I whip or tears drop down my cheeks at times as I go to bed. I feel the pain, but what can I do? It's a democracy. The man cannot get out of there until it's over. We don't belong to an environment where if the criticism is too much, the man could throw in the toilet and say, well, I desire him, let someone else come in. No, we are not made of self-talk. So he keeps hanging out there. Otherwise, after the first say no, ordinarily he would have known that, look, this thing is beyond me. I'm curious. Actually, he would have known. So he has gone on again into the second segment of his entire life. I hear me, ah, what can we do? It's a democracy. There is no other way of pulling other than through the ballot box. So after the first speech, we say, well, we look up to the audience, comment our help. Our help comes from nowhere, other than from the almighty God, the creator of the heavens and the earth. Well, if we already have God, if we are all looking towards God, why do we need a government? Because I'm sorry, as much as I respect religion and all of that, I do not understand why we elect people to lead us. We have soldiers. We have police officers. We have the rank and file. We should probably not have that if we're all hoping on God to protect us. But God cannot come down to do the things that you're supposed to do as a government, as security apparatus. So I do not buy it. I'm sorry, if I do not buy into this, oh, well, we'll just hope that God will help us. If we have leaders that are not being accountable to us who cannot protect us, who cannot leave up to the oaths and the promises that they made before they got into office, why do we still keep them there? Maybe we're the problem because we're always hoping upon hope instead of doing what we need to do to get those leaders out if they're not performing. Mary, like I said, this is a democracy. Do you have a house of assembly that can impeach the president? Let's talk reality here and possibilities. Do you have a national house of assembly that can impeach the president? I'm asking you. But are we a people who can also make sure that those members of our national assemblies are accountable to us? Can we follow through to make sure that if they cannot do what we want them to do, we can get them out of there? Are we even ready to have this conversation? Are we ready to have it? My sister, you live in this country. This is the same house of assembly or national assembly that has been tinkling all along with the rules of the game as far as the electoral laws are concerned. We're all aware of what's been going on in the house of plagues, whether results to be transmitted from certain points to where it's got to be collated or not and so on. And you saw the sharing, I don't know how to put it, but you saw all what went on. At the end of the day, was it reflecting the wish of Nigerians? We have a house that is just dancing to the tone of the executive, period. I am telling you that we have no option or that I don't believe in coup. I don't believe in coup. Even when I was in the village, I never believed in coup, talk of now that I'm a Democrat. I never, I don't believe in coup. And this is a democratic distribution. So the only way we can throw out the president and his party is through the ballot box or we impeach him. We do not have a house that can impeach him. They lack what it takes to impeach him. They lack gods. They envy us, like the Americans will say. So what do we do? Other than look at the research and look out to the heavens. Don't mention your head, come on. Let's not talk as if we can do anything beyond it. Or we continue to do like a lot of other executives. I'm happy you are, we are governors are busy telling their citizens to take their personal security into their house. Because, incredibly, those governors are telling you you have no government that can protect you. That's such a situation, so what do you do? So, I was one of the first boys telling Nigerians to take their personal security. You know, take ownership of your personal security. Everybody shouted to her level, sir. Today even governors are saying it. What is left is for the president to tell us that they know Nigerians, take your personal security, take ownership of your personal security. I cannot protect you. That is the only one we are waiting for here. Otherwise, we are running from every other governor. His ministers have said it, governors have said it. We are living in this country. So the first solution has gotten to a point where you have no other option than to say, well, I look up to the heavens. For once, come and make my help. Because I have no government. I have no government. Let's talk about other issues because I don't know if it sits well with me every time you say you look up to the heavens and I'm not a hater of religion in any way. But let's look at this issue of the NDA. I mean, a lot of your colleagues have been speaking. There's been like an opera from the retired military officers and a couple of them have been quoted in our national dailies. I'd like to talk about some of them who have said that this, the attack on the NDA is a national embarrassment. But then I have spoken to people who have also worked with the military who said that the NDA is not as secured as it should be as a cantonment or a barrack would be secured. And that's why maybe it was a soft target. But do you think that this hit on the NDA was some sort of message sent to the country or to the military or to the government? Again, as we speak, there are reports that a certain university, if I'm not mistaken, the College of Technical Education in Guusang, the provost received a letter, a threat letter from bandits. And it makes me ask the question, the fact that these people are undeterred, they seem fearless. Could it also be that maybe they have seen some level of weakness coming from our leaders or maybe our military? What could be fueling this temerity that they seem to show off? Mary, I would say this on air. Two major factors continue to mitigate every effort of ours because of we're trying to see how we deter the threats on ground. One, government is complicit. I am saying this, government in this country is complicit. How are they complicit? Do you have facts? Because by that I mean that. I'm sorry, how do you know that government is complicit? How do you know this? Because we are hearing, we're not sure. Let's just save time, I'm explaining. By that being complicit, I mean that government, to a greater extent, knows all what is up. And they cannot claim they do not know. Both at the national and sub-national level. Okay? We have a government who cannot protect our air, space, and so as well as hand consigned on identified flying objects, move into the forest, come down, drop logistics to terrorists. Terrorists in government are branded bandits and flies off. Are we saying Nigeria lacks the necessary capabilities to know which aircrafts are those ones, where they are coming from, or whose authority, and so on? That same government lacks what it takes to protect our border lines. We closed or shut down our borders for nearly two or three years here. And that was the period when we had the greatest influence of foreign learnings into our country, creating all the hard work we have had. Our government could not also protect our land space, and you want me to believe that, that we lack the capability to protect our airspace, to protect our land space? Our maritime environment has been taken over by, by, by, by all these, what do they call them? On the IC. We cannot also protect our maritime environment. So what sort of a government do we have in place? With all the instruments of coercion at its disposal? The army, the air force, the navy, the customs, the immigration, the police, then we have no government. What is our sovereignty then? Then that some government cannot protect us as citizens in this country, and the Nigeria working on the street has to keep looking back, as if you had seen. Because you do not know for where the next problem will be imagined for. We have all become legally able, God, oh, oh. I can't believe Nigeria can be reduced to this level. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm just wondering the issue of manpower, because people have also mentioned that the army is the worst threat. I don't mention the one. The second one, I told you there are three issues. Just mention, talk to the bad government, complicit. Complicit that as far as the situation is concerned. The second one has to do with the issue of morals. There are morals at every level, well known to the government. Until we have a government that is the headband on fighting terrorism, we can never do away with this. Until we have a government that is sincere, and ready to be objected in a strategy and whatever, we can never get out of peace. Within the last 24, 48 hours, you've had all the revolutions coming out. How individuals are saying, government is aware of this, government is aware of that. Well, I'd like to throw in, I'd like to quickly throw in, I'd like to quickly throw in that the DSS, which is, which works directly under Mr. President, has claimed that they have information on these so-called sponsors of terrorism in the country, but they cannot act. In other words, their hands are tied until Mr. President gives a go ahead. Are we not saying the same thing? We are saying the same thing. What is deplying Mr. President for giving a go ahead? What is stopping him? We are not serious. We are yet to be serious. Until this country is turned into some kind of stuff, which are not be serious, and gradually we are tating towards that. Gradually we are tating towards that. So what do we do as a people? All we've been saying is government hasn't done this, government hasn't done that, and I'm not in any way holding brief for the government or saying that the government has done enough. I mean, I remember, if not a few months ago, when the president was addressing Ainec officials, I remember vividly he said he's tried his best and he asked a question that continues to, replay in my head, that what more can he do? That was a question that he asked, I still remember. But again, I'm curious, what part can we play? Because we can't all just, we're 200 plus million people and the people who govern us are this tiny. The number of people who govern us are barely a fraction compared to the people who occupy the office of the citizen of the federal republic. We really can't just say that power is only with the government. We are in a democracy, sir, and you have been saying that over and over again. If power does reside with the people, what are we doing with that power? I mean, we cannot keep saying that the government has the army, they has the police. Where does our own function and responsibility come in? Because we cannot keep sitting at the fringes and hoping that a miracle is going to happen. So what do we do going forward? For ages, some of us have been turned into FM stations. We keep talking and talking and talking. Our names have become FM stations. We have reeled out all sorts of solutions and so on. The point is that in government, we have nobody who sits down to take notes when some individuals are speaking. You cannot continue to train. You have complete, what is it called? Or overall, you know, answers to all problems, the cloud in the country. As a government, you must be a listening government that someone has picked you or that a group of people have picked you to come out and do a job for government. Does not mean that you are the only man who has all the solution. In better times, when some people are talking on the television, there are individuals who take notes as it relates to the offices. And at the end of the day, they compile these things and throw it to their principal. This is a government where nobody does that. If you are talking, God will show you, it's more confined about how you would attack you when you finish talking, rather than listening to you and taking down points and so on. So at the end of the day, the man is no friend with any information. We just come on air talk and go. Nobody is listening. Nothing is when implemented. No amendments are done to whatever arrangements we have on down. We continue to fine tune whatever plans we have on down as new ideas and better ideas or superior arguments have been placed on the table. Nobody is doing that. For how long should we continue to talk? And the problem with this administration is that we have mistakes in nearly every department. Because in the first place, the recruitment of those who run some departments of whatever has been based on other religious reasons, ethnicity, tribalism, what have you. So at the end of the day, you find a bunch of mistakes. Who don't even know they are left from their right. But there are those who would say that the reason why people like you are waxing lyrical is because you're not given opportunities to be in these very juicy government offices. And that if you were, for example, you sir, were being given an appointment by the Bahari administration, you'd probably lose your voice. Is that true? Who said that? Are they coming from you? No, no, I'm saying that there are those who say that the people who oppose governments this vehemently are those who obviously are in opposition or are people who want something. And if the government were to give you what you want, you probably would lose your voice. Do you agree with that? They may be correct because of course that is also part of the Nigerian character. They may be correct. But in most cases, I would tell you this, when there are two categories of you that come on air, let me tell you this, my dear. You're like a daughter to me and I wanted to listen attentively. There are two categories of you who come on air to talk. There are those who come to talk as politicians and maybe before, within the realm of politicians, all they say is to see how they are able to manage things to go in their own way and make sure they project themselves to hide the next elections and so on. The second category are people who are nationalists. People by virtue of their background of training and so on have grown up to love the country. And when they talk, they don't mean words. They talk straight. They sound objective, okay? And their concern is for how the Nigerian nation can move forward. And they are, in most cases, paid their dues. And repeat, paid their dues. Okay? And I paid my dues as a Nigerian and as a soldier. I have fought in 45 international competitions and I know what I have seen, what I have gone through. I was in Liberia. I was in Syria alone. I was in Bacau as the first commanding officer from Nigeria. And of course I was in Bacau in over three years. I have paid my dues. I joined the army at the age of 13 through the Nigerian military school when I knew nothing about money. When I knew nothing about military officers becoming governors, I came out of separate retrosy from what I saw from my dad, who was a bloody driver in the World War II. And how I saw his uniform sparkly. And of course I got moved to protect the territorial integrity of my country. Some of us have come a long way when we talk, people listen. Okay. I don't fall within that category. I don't. And if you know me very well, you know I don't. And that is how when I talk to leadership, I look into their eyes and tell them, maybe that truth. Because if I cannot look at leadership at this age and time with my work of experience and tell them the truth, when shall I do it? When I'm in my grave? No. Hassan Stan Lebo is a retired military officer. Thank you so much for speaking with us. We appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate it, please. All right. Well, we'll take a short break. Thank you all for staying with us. The show still continues. When we come back, the upcoming Anambra State election might not be affected just by insecurity as we fear, but by voter apathy. We'll get to find out more at this break.