 Podcasts was round table round 90 the first 10 episodes So this is a little different it sounds almost like we're talking about launching a podcast It's different than that, you know, I wrote it here in the description. It says app Hope there I got the live thing coming on right in my ears as I'm starting the the fun of live production After the first 10 episodes of your podcast You'll really start to get a sense of what your podcast is going to be like right you launch it and then you kind of find out Hey, how's this ain't going are people listening? Do you work well with your co-host? How long does an average episode seem to be running? You'll get a feel for this I think about after 10 episodes maybe after 5 but those first episodes So you might have answered all these questions in the beginning at least thought you had the answers But did it go as planned? Did you even make a plan? Do you need a plan? Can you just turn on the mic and get started? Of course you can you can do any of those things But we're gonna discuss those first 10 at 10 is a random number really just the first episodes and kind of how We see our shows the people on the round table here all new round table there's only one here now but there are more coming they're supposed to be here and We will find out, you know, would they have done something different would they do the same and How did it work out for them and looking back and Dave Jackson co-host Dave Jackson welcome back But you have a ton of episodes To look back and get a reference on I do that's it's gonna be I'm up to 559 this week will be coming out. Well congrats. That's massive. We're at 90 So you got 90 more Dave Dave just tucked another 90 episodes of a podcast in his in his shirt pocket there You don't stop podcasting you just have how many podcasts Dave? That's it. I've they come they go they're like socks I changed them all I think at 90 we're starting to get a little ripe. So hopefully Dave will unveil on us But all right. Hey new round table or Jason welcome to the round table. Thank you. Good to be here So I'm I'm about I'm about to record my 60th episode. So Halfway well Halfway nearly more than halfway to the hundred which seems to be the landmark for everybody at the moment I kind of always the lately. I always say that a hundred episodes is like then It's like the high school diploma of podcasting these days It really feels like you hit a hundred you really hit that next step in podcasting you graduate it feels like I've really been here I've clearly been dedicated and Then it's just going to the next hundred and I don't know what the milestone is after that Dave has blown past it But yeah, we are creeping there within ten for this show as well So I've been here for a few years and that's the other thing it tells you you've done a hundred You've probably been around at least two years. Yeah, and I think we know based on stats It's like some weird percentages, but after like 20 episodes It means you're probably gonna be you're probably gonna hit that hundred episode if you stick around after 20 I don't know some weird stat like that but and tell us a little bit about your show Well, my start is quite weird and this is probably a good subject for this show actually is that I started so podcast is called skeptic smash talk so By hobby in training. I'm a scientist. I'm also a skeptic And I like to just ramble on about different things also a fan of philosophy. So the show started as basically another skeptic or science-based nerdy type podcast, but it's evolved into the reason I started it was as a Let's say a an outlet for me so that I could just sit there and talk and get things off my chest and try and help other people understand Sciences and skepticism and things like that, but it turned into Basically like I say just another skeptic type podcast where I'm reading news stories and pulling apart all the the bad science and all that sort of stuff and That's not where I wanted to go. So over the last sort of six months or so I've merged away and rather than Basically, I'm writing out a script a script out my show and then I sit there I'll write it out twice and then read through and go through the show like that and it's me talking to myself About the topics that I want to talk about now. It's just turned into a complete Awesome, we have another new round table joining us. So that's good. Welcome Sherry. We we have started glad you made it in Did she hear us? That's a good question. I'm not hearing anything Thank Drop a marker Dave will Okay, you got us not hearing a thing We'll make blood Dave. Yeah, there's a how do I say does that work? No, it's here's now It's no video here is that stuff because we can't Actually gonna mute her while she works on that Guess is that what that looks like Dave? Yeah, Dave showing her the icon at the top of the screen how to check the settings but his art is debatable so Jason I missed a part. Did you did it your 60 episodes in you said? Yeah and Looking back at the first 10. Did you say whether it had gone? Is it the same show that you'd planned when you launched? It's the the show that I'm doing now is the show that I planned in my head But it wasn't the first 10 episodes the first 10 episodes were completely different And I still don't know why and I've not thought about why But when I listen back which I sort of tend to do every now and then Yeah, keep going Tend to go back and listen now and then each each it really is a different show And it's not that I didn't enjoy doing it the way that I did it then But it wasn't what I planned. I had a few guests in Did a few interviews even have my wife come along But the whole concept was the podcast was an outlet for me It wasn't that so in the first what was the when you before you launched what was the show? What was the plan? What was the shows? Going to be the plan what the very original plan was so I've been list I've been listening to podcasts ever since I remember Pog and probably before podcast We're we're coming out so friends of mine had radio stations. You used to record when when I was in Australia that semi-tapes or CDs of shows from different states so But I always wanted to just have that outlet that artistic outlet where I could just get things off my chest talk about the things That I enjoy And hopefully be able to educate or share those feelings with people That was the plan right and then it morphed into what's the difference? It kind of morphed. Well, it started to become a more like an interview show than anything else in half interview half me basically Reading news stories are talking about You know big headline stories that were in the news So, why do you think it changed? Why do you think it changed from what you thought was gonna be to what in that first episodes or wherever it changed? What was responsible for that pivot? I was I was starting to well, I was mimicking other Podcasts that I enjoyed listening to right rather than being myself I was trying to be what those other podcasts were that's tough right in the beginning You know, how do we know how to do this thing? I mean typically most podcasters don't have training in a broadcast experience They just has something they want to talk about so you do oftentimes I would think almost every podcasters listening to a podcast before they started their own podcast And so you may emulate exactly like you were doing what? You like what you've heard right you need some reference and then always talk about how that'll probably change as you go Your audience may tell you how you want it how they want it changed You know they may not directly but they might say how I like this more than I like that or you do an interview and that goes really well So you sort of pivot your show that way Yeah, exactly. And I started doing long diatribes and that's where I started And that's where I wanted to be to begin with and I started to get that really strong Good positive feedback off the audience on those long diatribes. I'm talking 20 minutes or 25 minutes Yeah, of me basically Ranting about a subject whatever that subject may be right and it kind of links into to the news of the day of the news of the week but if I'm talking about a Political decision or something like that normally At best people sit there and and listen to that long ram for about five or ten minutes before they start getting a little bit annoyed and and switch off but I Going for 20 minutes. I thought that's a bit risky and people aren't going to enjoy that the feedback though was brilliant and People were saying to me With all due respect stop having guests and just keep doing those diatribes And it just happened to be that that's what I really wanted to do in the first place Cool. Yeah, I mean with this show and Logan go ahead and chime in anytime you want Yeah, I didn't know if you guys had me or not. We're good. We're good It's a it's a fun technical day here at the round table, but we're handling we're handling Yeah, if anything go ahead This the show is all about interruption like if you guys want to say jump in there But I was gonna say for this show round table here There was literally no plan the plan was to stream live via hangouts on air. We're still doing that I'm glad Google hasn't killed that one yet, but there was no real plan other than to include other Podcasts now this was set up really as a very informal show almost like you were getting around the campfire with your buddies Your buddies being all people who are podcaster So you're gonna just have a podcasting and that that was it And I think the show is pretty much stayed that way We've done special episodes where I think that the community needs to hear Something really important and we've addressed it and you know the sort of mission was to always have a new round table Or every time in fact we have Logan I don't think he's introduced himself yet it will do we'll get that but that for the most part We've done that but I break from that once in a while and this show is all about experimenting It's been a good ride, but seriously no plan in the first ten episodes, but I would say it's mostly the same Logan What's your show? My show is the say the damn score podcast and it is about sports casting And if you are involved in the industry at all You will know that the number one criticism of every sportscaster is that they don't say the score enough when you're listening on the radio and what I've done is used some connections to Basically have sportscasters from all over the country come on my show and we dig deep into their stories There's a lot of really strange and unusual paths to becoming the voice of a team that For example people have started off selling water and played at a radio station volleyball game and ended up Basically being in charge of half of the division one college higher higher ease so to speak so Started off actually recording at the radio station that I work at and Eventually moved on and I am I think I just recorded episode 35 yesterday I haven't released it quite yet, but it's been a it's been a good ride So when you decided to start a podcast you had an idea of how it would go and now being at around 35 looking back to those first episodes is it the same show did you know Were you able to do what you wanted or did you have to change some things? How does it look? It's about what I I was able to do about what I wanted. I had a I actually had the idea on the airplane ride home from an industry conference where I was just thinking wow This was awesome. I got to talk to all these big-name people and listen to their stories that they're telling off the air about Just weird things that have happened in their career or hanging out with famous athletes And I'm like I bet there are a lot of other people who would enjoy these as well. So I came back Probably a couple months after that And got it set up and have just been going for them from there and it's been fun My very first show was almost a disaster. That's interesting that you bring that up because it was with the Mark Boyle who is the voice of the Indiana Pacers and I'd never realized that Indianapolis was just on the other side of of the time zone so I had a been planning ahead and had a Cook dinner early being ready to record a podcast at five on a Sunday night and I Ended up as I'm about ready to sit down and get a message. Do you not need me anymore and I'm like, no No, no, no, and then I got a did a quick Google search and just said crap And I almost missed my very first one and you know, Dave would probably caution people about Against having like a really big interview for your Dave when you started school podcasting and it being so deep now What's it look like now compared to episode the first 10 episodes, you know, did you have a plan going in? You're so early when I started it the plan just was to Talk about well first back then it was explaining what the heck is a podcast and Then it got into kind of the same stuff gear talk Interviewing any kind of service that was out there that people could use as a podcast and then just How to make good content So I came around I came along later with a had a podcast and the podcast studio My plan was it ended up being about the first seven episodes There was a loose plan to sort of say this is where you would get started at the beginning of this podcast It should be some instruction about the beginning of your own podcast. This can be a reference to go back to and You know for me it wasn't it was a plan But I don't think it was executed as well as it could have been so every 50 50 episodes I update that with a back to basics and you know things change And that's one of the things about doing a show where your back catalogue may be relevant or semi-relevant Even years later Things change right you need to update those things. So for me, I've tossed in interviews and stuff like that But the show has mostly remained a how-to show I've discussed changing the format completely because I think me personally I At some point hit a point where just talking off the top of my head about something used to be flip on the microphone Have a subject in my head and go right now. It's a lot more planning and Dave. I can't imagine it like 500 plus episodes It's not like you can just grab something at the top of your head. You've you've said all that probably three times That's the problem. I run into now is my last episode was how to do What is because people go well? Don't be boring and I'm like well, how do you what does that mean like exactly? What does that mean and so I did it and then I would the whole time I'm like I think I've already talked about this stuff before some of it was stuff I knew I threw in a lot of my kind of cliche things But that's the problem I run into is how do I come up with new content because there are some things that aren't going to change They're just they're just not and so that's my Kind of issue is how do I come up with new content that's engaging that's entertaining and Educational without saying the same thing over and over and over and that's why I started to do more interviews than I used to do Because it's it's not the same thing if it's coming out of somebody else's mouth It's always great when I have somebody else say don't be boring and be engaging and things like that and it plus it gives a different perspective Now looks like we got Sherry. Sherry welcome to the round table. Hi. Thank you for having me Can you hear? I have the creation science for kids show and we've actually got a couple more I'm hoping to start the princess podcast here shortly, but that's still in the Planning stages cool. So you have a show in the planning stages So you have some idea of what that show might look like, right? So yeah, what are some of the things you're considering before you record your first ten episodes, right? Okay, so for this one since I've done it for a while I first of all know it's a lot of work and it's primarily for my 13-year-old daughter Who is a talker and I want her to develop her communication skills because we homeschool So I'm thinking how can I engage her without? Burning her out right away So one of the things that is that we're going to switch off and I really want to read some of my old the fairy tales That I've enjoyed that are like victorians So they are definitely in the public domain So thinking how can my daughter have her part where she can take? Cinderella and do her own twist on it and then I can just read so it'll be an audiobook that will eventually come out Serialized and I've already I've told my mom She loves to go to antique stores to sit and said hey anytime you find a fairytale book That's sure to be out of copyright Please collect it for us so we can use it and get materials so my end We should be able to keep up for a long time and then I warned my daughter We were actually at the Y the other day walking around the track and I said you know You're gonna need more than two minutes and if it's gets like over ten minutes long as this is a little girl's bedtime Podcast you're gonna need to break it up And so we're already thinking about those things even though it probably will be about two months out at this point I think yeah, and then so your first podcast How does it look the same as did you plan it like that first of all? Did you just launch it? Okay, so my creation science podcast it does look the same It was just miniaturized because I thought and thought about that first one And I picked an important topic because it does have the most downloads still even though I listen to the audio And I cringe of course But it was like 12 minutes long and now I'm averaging 35 minutes long, but that took about a year And right away I realized I could only do every other week. So what made the change in the length? Why change the length? It just got longer. I didn't ever in fact I went back and look because I'm actually in the process of making a course for other homeschoolers to be able to Podcast so I had to look at my old catalog and I was shocked at how long it took to build up slowly I would get to like 17 minutes long and then it was 20 and then it was about a year in that I was finally getting up to the length it stayed since does anybody else here find that their show My show the podcast around table like I don't watch the time, but I swear. It's like 46 minutes. I hit stop It's the same every time. It's very bizarre Has anyone else noticed the length or are you very regimented with the length of your podcast? I'm at that 45 minutes now Do you plan for it to be that no it just naturally as I started they were varying between 20 minutes in an hour Midway through so getting up to the 20 maybe into the 30th episode I was creeping over that hour, but now they just like you say just naturally stop organically stop at that 45 minute Mark, I don't edit. I don't edit anything at the end. No once I edit on the fly if you like Hit stop put the tail on and that's about it, you know, so yeah anywhere between they seem to be 42 to 46 minutes the last 10 episodes Dave your show because I have a listener of the entire back catalog Infamously getting in trouble for listening at work Those shows and I used to love it because those shows were long you had really long shows I don't remember if it started that way But the books of the early first hundred seem to be pretty long and then somewhere probably around 300 I don't know at some point they got much shorter now Was that just an of the necessity or did you make a conscious decision about that? It depends it started off They were actually really short the first couple I think we're like 20 minutes or so mine too I actually went back to like episode one recently and couldn't believe that there were like 15 minute episodes And then I went to blog world New York and I got to meet some people listen to my show and they all said the same thing Make it longer make it longer And I'm like really because that's a lot of Dave and I know make it longer There you go So there's a good example of the audience like sort of changing that show that plan you had you thought that maybe people like the short And they ended up wanting more Yeah So that's where I started to come up with segments that I could just plug in any time like you know Because of my podcast or the last five and five and things like that and I'm looking at great because did you play? I mean you probably didn't pre-plan any of those segments before in the first 10 episodes, but they emerged and those are probably Your most popular things. I mean people know it's also how they engage with your show, right? They the five and five I certainly called my five and five in so it's fun to see how you launch and then those things grow Yeah, it was just at the time podcasting was so new and I wanted to find a way to spotlight other people and Share the spotlight and so I just came up with that at a I think was in an event and just started asking people We're the last five podcasts you listen to and that just seemed to work It was a cool little way and we all learned about different podcasts Maybe we didn't know about and so that happened and then because my podcast was just me trying to Have somebody else give a reason why should I start a podcast besides me? So when somebody else is why I got to talk to captain Kirk or whatever it was You know that might inspire somebody to start a podcast. So I'm curious from the panel anyone gets to jump in here The first 10 episodes, do you think there's anything uniquely different about the first 10 or the first five the beginning episodes compared to The rest of the catalog. I know personally I did a lot of more experimenting in those first 10 because I have a radio background and Wasn't a huge podcast listener before I started it and I know I tried a bunch of different things I had just the basic interview with With with a guest I had a coach come on and we took all the play-by-play clips from the movie major league And we did a critique of what the comedic parts of that play-by-play And just I remember trying a lot of things and just seeing what got feedback and what type of guests Move the needle in order to help it grow. Yeah, I like that a lot because I'm always telling people I don't see enough experimenting in podcast and we try to do a little with this show, but I Mean it's like completely open and no one's telling you what to do and no one's gonna come in and yank you off the air off The air off the interwebs. So yeah be experimental And I love that because there you're you're sort of see throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks and letting Your audience sort of direct where you're gonna go with that. So I think that's a great a great thing I mean, do you any of you? Who thinks you need a plan? No, I don't think you do it all a friend of mine going back to I think 2006 we had a plan to Turn on some recording software and just talk to each other and and that was going to be a poker And we did one episode. We talked for about two hours He was he lived down in Florida. I was living in Brisbane, Australia at the time and We just talked rubbish for two hours and it was really good. It was really entertaining It never turned out because of the the time zone difference. It was just gonna be too hard But there was zero plan for that in a show like that is really hard to grow. So I think it probably depends on your goals Right, I mean if you really do want to get the biggest listenership It's going to be hard to get on the microphone with a friend chat about whatever you want because we know Nitch's power in podcasting I mean, it's really hard to be found you're you're at that point You're in competition with a general show like Adam Corolla or something. So it does I think matter What your goals for the show are if you just want to have fun in podcast You can flip on the mic and start right Dave I mean, but it do you think Dave there needs to be a plan I think I think you should have something to say So if you're gonna vamp on a subject, you should at least know what you're gonna talk about so maybe you're gonna Talk about Whatever the the one time that I caught the sewer on fire That's gonna be the funny story or whatever it is if you're just gonna talk to a buddy about it You should have an idea as opposed to what do you want to talk about? I don't know What do you want to talk about? I don't know well and then you're off to because I've I went to Chicago once and I got to go to second city Where it's you know, this this is where half of Saturday live came from this big improv group And I was amazed at how much of it was not very good I mean there was the stuff that was really good was really good But there were a couple I remember one they did a skit about Superman that was really really long and just the whole time You're like going okay, please, you know, I understand it's creative that you can go give me a topic Okay, it's a tree. Give me another one rubber band. Give me another one. It's a color and then they come up with something and you go Yeah, that included everything, but it wasn't entertaining, you know, and so I don't think improv is unless you're skilled in it It's it's kind of hit or miss. I'm doing that right now I just I'm playing with a new platform and I started a podcast called the podcast rodeo show And so I I have yeah, I randomly pick a couple of podcasts and I listen to them and just give my there's no thought into it and The fun part of that is I have zero control why do that's what I've just learned I have zero control over my content Because it could be a really good show it could be a really bad show and so and within goal for that show Dave Why did I start it because I wanted to see how Pinecast is as a podcast media host. It's just me playing basically and at the end I'm like hey if you want a real review Go to you don't need that show to grow. No, not really But I did find out that after the second episode people with Google alerts We'll find out that you talked about their show and send you nasty messages on Facebook You should be used to that Well, I'm not used to being that negative and so I had it I then had to go out to Fiverr and get somebody that says the following is just an opinion only an opinion You know just to let people know it's just this is just the top my head. So With your new show that you're developing. Do you feel the need to have a plan for that? What's the goal for the show and and you know, it's to get your daughter engaged. So maybe that Right. Yeah, I I thought let's just do a podcast first But then when I thought about how we and I've never outgrown my love of fairy tales I realized and then I looked at iTunes. There's nobody out there In fact before the kidnappers took it I could have had princess podcast calm. So now I have bought the princess podcast There's a huge market There's not enough little girls podcast out there. So charities my daughter is actually already dreaming of having Disney as a sponsor He's like, ah, that's a little bit, but I do Um, we're going to buy we already found art and Audio clip from oh dear the stock photo or What is the major stock place? That's it's movie quality, right? But we're we're gonna invest $90 just into the art in the music because I expect this will grow far bigger than my niche Where it's only certain segment of the Christian community even interested in it This one if you've got a little girl who likes princesses, that's what millions of Americans. So yeah, I have put a lot of thought into it Yeah, I mean when we're how important is Getting that name and the artwork and that stuff dialed in in the beginning of a show because I find that a lot of times I've I've said like you can change your music anytime you want which I have done You can update your artwork. In fact, sometimes you'll see that as advice like update your artwork So it'll be different in iTunes, but and then I think of other shows I consume and I think Man, I am really used to hearing it. There was one I can't imagine them changing and I you know recently I started listening to Pod Save America was fantastic I'm gonna go see the live show and and and the music isn't that good But I was thinking to myself if they changed it it would be weird to me, right? So it almost feels like once you pick you're not locked in But you are establishing something for your audience right in the beginning, right? Yeah, I do find myself often when I listen to podcasts It's not to imitate them but to find best practices and what I like as a listener. So I agree When I hear somebody else's music that is the podcast for me So we put a lot of thought plus for both musicians. We wanted to do it anyway Nice Well, and it's like if Logan had a show, you know for sports podcasters and you asked him Well, what's why did you start the show? And if he said well, I want to promote my real estate business that doesn't make any sense You have to have the why you're starting kind of be in alignment if you're gonna do it in a way that you're trying to affect it So in your case, obviously, it's easy your your daughter's gonna get Communication skills out of it because she's gonna be communicating But I have seen people do that that jump in with no thought And then you find out the reason they got into it has nothing to do with their podcast And that's when you're that always makes me scratch my head. I want to get rich Dave That's it. I'm getting it. Yes. Yeah, it's interesting that you bring up the name thing because I like my name a lot of ways It was it catches the attention and the niche gets it but at the same time it also has a It has an acronym that that spells out STDs Nice, and I didn't figure that out until I had been about five or six podcasts deep and I'm like Crap, I can't really use that ever that would be a perfect Twitter hashtag or Something virally There's there's an avenue there for marketing well, I think if you ask most of the podcast media hosts I know I get to say Libs and it's lib syn, you know every time I go to a blueberry is going BLU BRR Why they're saying no ease freaker. It's like speaker with an R I'm sure if we could all go back in time and pick a name that we didn't have to spell We might go that route. I had to do that. You know, I still I still on the domain course. I own a lot of domains But I own podcast fast pass and every time you say that you have to over enunciate it Otherwise people don't understand what the heck you're saying. So That's something that you kind of look back later and go. Oh, I probably shouldn't have done that So what would you do different if you're starting the same show today, you know And I kind of hate this question because I'm always like I don't know what I would do different but I'm putting it out there for anyone to answer I Think the the the biggest change that two things actually for me long intro my first eight nine Episodes have very long intro. So there was 30 seconds of music Then me talking rubbish for three minutes about what I was about to talk about now I just play a three-second sting if that and then I'm into it The other thing is I would record My pilot episode my number one episode Three or four or five episodes in and I'll work backwards a little bit a little bit hard with my topic says some of them are date dependent Especially when start going on about politics, but if if I could do so record one two three episodes maybe bin those Then do that that number one episode and then walk work forward from there my first two episodes are horrific They really are if I could if I had the excellent the The skill to hit that delete button and have them gone forever But that's like burning a book or destroying a piece of art, you know, sir It's bad, but it has to stay there for prosperity. That's it Yeah, I do like I do like leaving in my case is how to show and I want people to see hey Everyone sucks in the beginning like go listen to mine is bad, right? So or at least it's not You know, even it's not bad. It's it's progress. You hopefully you've grown over the catalog and it's different You get better at this thing and that's nice to have there But you can people do go back and replace episodes, but yeah, I think it is I like that's a piece of art Like it's a museum. Just leave it there, but yeah, who else? I mean, I like that I like to Redo thing like I wouldn't have done. I think I did episode zero where it's like here's the show Here's what it's gonna be blah blah blah throw that out. Let's get to the content. That's me I would I would lose episode zero and if I did something like that I would come out the first episode you want to just punch somebody in the mouth and just have them go Holy cow. This is the best stuff ever really get their attention and then tell them who you are I think a lot of people like to go. Hey, I'm you know, Dave Jackson. I've been helping people understand technology They don't care. Who are you what just get you said you're gonna talk about sudden who get to that stuff Then once you amaze them with your wow content then tell them who they are. That's something I would change I would vice versa that What my biggest challenge was when I started is I kind of went backwards because I worked at a radio station where I Had some equipment where I could get a good audio a call in via phone line and About 20 episodes in I finally just bit the bullet and bought my own equipment and set it up at home And it just made it so much more convenient and easier to get the guests it's mine's mainly an interview show and It just made it easier to fit their schedule when I could do it at home instead of having to fit it into a time When it was at work and not busy and that was a lot of times very difficult to To make make times work and mesh together. That was definitely a thing for me Yeah, for me. Um, I kind of wish I'd listed to Daniel J. Lewis and Dave a little longer Because when I found alphonic it made my audio so much better But I already knew something that I'm putting in my course and that I already knew was when I would read the Garfield comics and the Calvin and Hobbs we had those collections from my girl, but and the first ones when you read the first couple weeks They don't look like themselves even these Professionals when they were first drawing Garfield or Calvin They looked weird and it took them a couple of weeks of doing it day-in day-out to get that look that then stayed the same for however long Decades in Garfield's case is so I kind of knew that there's nothing really you can do except just Jump in and do the best you can and you're gonna learn it's just the way like this as Dave likes to point out who remembers Seeing the Simpsons in between segments on the Tracy Almond. Oh, yeah, and how bad and weird they look oh Yeah, that's amazing and they sounded weird. I mean it was the same people everything just was Yeah, so that's good. I like that I mean just get in there and start creating because I like to say that you can't You actually can't grow until you publish it I mean it has to be out there like you can sit in your your studio in your house and you can record as many test ones as you Want but you have to publish it and it has to be iterated on by the audience I think or or just the fact of it that it's live and you let it go I think that's it go. It's being a princess. It's just I think there's something different I think you listen to yourself differently when you you know, it's gone out And now it's on your app and you know other people are listening to this somehow that filter of knowing other people are listening to that Brings a whole different way that you listen and that's where times are like Because I mean I can listen to it as much as I want, you know before it goes public But once it goes public, it's there's a different like filter that goes on there And that's when you're like me maybe I shouldn't have done that or I should have cut that or whatever It's always kind of interesting. I think I'd like to echo what cherry was saying as well about listening to Especially Daniel But Ray and Dave and and everybody's went before I started the podcast. I was going to do a Video podcast so I watched I did all the learning for video streaming and not just the audio side of it I did a couple of trial runs and then Obviously as we're discussing earlier about this space. It's not very good for doing much in so there I just jumped straight into it was a weekend over a weekend. I decided now. It's not gonna be video. It's just gonna be audio only And one of the biggest tips I can't remember if it was from you Ray or from Daniel was about that speech speed and In my first 10 episodes probably Getting into 15. I'm speaking very fast like it just was now So when you're getting into that 15 20 25 minute diatribe you get to the end and you you're pouring With sweater and you're out of breath because you've just been talking so it really and that was something I learned Later on was to sit down and just slow down that speech and get that rhythm going and relax and still get excited But slow right down so it if I could do it all over again I'll go back and spend five or six months Researching listening to all the how-to's and and take it from there Yeah, I mean, I think that that is that's something everyone learns and I definitely talk about slowing down You know for those ums when you feel them coming on just Say nothing and it'll help in the editing. I mean if anything else but dead air is not Necessarily a bad thing, but I had to slow myself down painfully then to slowly ramp myself back up But my first episodes are so stiff like I sound so I don't know what I was trying to accomplish Like I was so serious. I was and I wasn't it wasn't a see it was a live stream Oh, here's the thing. I'd start out live with Q&A getting my questions from the audience that I didn't have Yeah, really ambitious So that is something to consider a lot of people want to get it, you know A lot of people want to start and they don't want to just do their first ten episodes they want to do the first ten episodes of The five shows on their network that are just starting right everyone wants to have a network before they have one show Yeah, everyone wants to live stream do video Get on I mean they just want to do it all right So if you're trying to do that if you're thinking about doing that in your first ten episodes I would say nail down one format, you know and audio is probably the best way to go I mean have you guys as anyone else done any kind of different formats For their podcast. This is live streamed here, but it's it's not too difficult I occasionally will throw in A what we are now calling NPR style, which is basically just narrated audio I will do I think I've done two that was on the school podcasting and they're fun when you listen to them but it also took Five to six hours to do a 45 minute podcast. Yeah, and that's so starting out Dave. Did you ever did you start doing something? That you don't do now because it's like that it really kind of hinders the process of getting a podcast out Yeah, that's that's the biggest one I would love to do that because I had somebody I just did one about local podcasting and it was kind of NPR style And I had so many people say that was like wow that was really really good And I'm like don't expect that every week because there's just no way That could happen and that's where it sounds like and when you Somebody says it sounds kind of like NPR and I can't remember those guys have teams of 15 working on their show I'm a team of one So it's not going to happen Yeah That reminds me of one thing when I put out my first episode it was I did try to do weekly But I realized right away I could only handle every other week because I needed a week to not think about podcasts and listen to things Like this to keep me motivated because I want to be part of this group because it was so much work Yeah, that I just couldn't do it. So that's one of the other thing and what you said earlier Um, I think we learned to listen to ourselves and for me I also have to listen to my kids because I got a single mic So when they talk over me, I can't edit it out So now I'll catch that because I'm listening differently than I could and I think that only comes with time to practice I think early on I really focused On on the interview part of my show of just digging deep and finding all these abstract things in their careers to talk about and really just went from point to point and didn't use the The advantage of the podcast format, which is that you can really dig into things and have a deep conversation I do less research now than I did in the first 10 episodes But I think the episodes are much better because I'm taking a couple interesting things then You know just listening a lot better and finding out what What is interesting about that and not having Almost having less of a plan has made the show better Yeah, that's that's the key especially for interviews, uh mark maren at, uh, podcast movement 2016 I think it was and somebody asked him what makes him a good interview and he said oh, that's easy listen And I think half the really good questions Are not the original question. It's the follow-up That somebody says something they go. Oh, well, how did you feel doing that? Then that's where the story comes out and I think sometimes when we have these Kind of set quite because I do that I come up with a couple questions that I want to ask But I always use that as the game plan and I start off with the first one and then From that point it's listening and if there isn't something I want to follow up with then I go back to the The questions, but I think it's it's really easy to follow into question one Tell us a little bit about yourself question two and and so yeah, I'm with you that's something else I've definitely better at I listen a lot more now in interviews as and it's all about them Where I think at the beginning I think you feel like well, I'm supposed to be talking too. It's my show like no not really They're here to bring the content this week. You can chill back and just ask the questions So I find that I need to be Spending more time just because of the the format and the content of my show I need to make sure that what I'm saying is 100 spot-on accurate or else I just get inundated So if if I'm philosophers are the worst people to upset because they'll just bombard you and you can't Try try and win an argument with a philosopher But by by design you just cannot win the argument with Philosopher, so if I'm talking about if I get they can't mixed up with Socrates The fire and brimstone is coming in so I do need to make sure that I do get all that research So I might spend up to 10 hours to produce In research and writing to produce 40 45 minutes but The upside of that the silver lining is that I'm doing a little bit more sort of self education for myself So it's it's not a bad thing so everybody here Deep knowledge. I mean everyone everyone has deep experience at least and in starting a show Doing your first 10 episodes looking back Let's move into some tips like what is some things we can tell new podcasters who haven't launched a show or even experienced podcasters Who are thinking of launching another show? Maybe what are some of those things? That you could say now looking back that you might Say, you know what that's solid like you can do that right like we're talking about Getting good artwork. I mean, I think that that's a good thing to get right in the beginning I mean branding is one thing. I mean I I made a logo for this show and it's okay But I would love to you know, I made some stickers But and it becomes what people see and at some point you want to move into different things You're like that logo is not very good. Look Dave's gotta This is a sticker right there on camera podcasters around deal with comm slash live got to get here to see the video But Yeah, you know, what are some of those things we've learned over time? You know audio is one of those I'm sitting here. I'm back I've got I'm holding hand holding the microphone for all you listening and I can't see We're doing that again. I just I need to do that. I need a better background, but Those things, you know gear. This is a cheap microphone get quality audio My audio varied so much I still tweak the audio but You know in that first few episodes that might be a one shot to get somebody so I would you know really urge people to At least put some time and a little money into getting their audio A little dialed in at least sounds good before you launch those first 10 episodes And we know that that first episode just by virtue of being there the longest is probably gonna be the most listened to episode So what do you think Dave? If you were uh, you give people advice all the time When someone has a show and I guess it would be interesting like knowing what this person's fake person's goal would be But forget it. I mean, we don't care if you want to be rich you want to grow a show or you want to get a sponsor Considering all those things. Can you give general advice to someone who's going about to launch their first few episodes? Well, it's it's usually I'm I'm battling a couple things number one. I don't want to look stupid That's always one two. Nobody will listen to me. I always hear that one and There's the only way you can make yourself sound stupid is if you record it and then put it out I mean, that's the whole it's not live tv. It's not live radio. So You know and that doesn't mean you're not going to sound stupid I put out an episode a couple weeks ago. Some of you got it where there was 20 minutes of space at the end of it You know, and I fixed it. So it's a collector's item now, but uh, it was So I've done about three of those. So yeah, so um, you know, and then you don't know You know people you don't think people want to listen to you and that's because you hang around with people Who know the same stuff you do. So there's my that I'm getting I'm gonna glean some tips from Dave's Dave's advice here Check your episodes. I scrub every episode. That's not going to catch all problems But hopefully you will catch that and it's not a big deal You can totally replace the episode if you do something like that But you might catch that 20 minutes of dead air That's there. So I definitely at the end of every episode. I will at least I spot check I'll just open it up in a quick time player. Let it play and I'll just literally click around And I'll catch a lot of weird things that way. I don't have time to sit here and listen back to an hour I mean you edit an hour. You've already edited maybe one to one time, right? Every minute that you're You're editing you're sitting to listen to it That you recorded but so I don't have to I can't listen to an hour back But scrub it at least If you just open it up in audacity and look for the gaps in the waves Yeah, that's it. That's the first scrub I do So I take I take the timeline and I just visually look at it's a great point Logan Yes, visually and audio after you've exported it out because weird stuff can happen Once it leaves the editor Yeah, and don't in my case. I was zoomed in so it looked like it was full and if I zoomed out I would have seen I had a big thing at the end And then the last I say this a lot, but your podcast and we were kind of mentioning that here on this episode Your podcast is a recipe. It's not a statue And so you can change it anytime you want and you probably are going to change it because Not everything you do is going to be exactly the way you thought it was or resonate with your audience the way you thought it was and You know, nobody's as I always say nobody's going to punch you in the face. Thank you ryan k parker and uh Just you're not going to know if it's going to work or not unless you put it out there. So More pepper. I can always use more Spice it up. Spice it up people. Who else? What are you? Logan podcasting her. You know what I I think a big key to the growth of my podcast because I also just do a biweekly Show and I wanted people to have content more than just biweekly So a I had a professional website built Uh from a designer it was a little bit of an investment But it makes it look really good and makes everything easy to find and I also Keep a blog just about my adventures in sports casting and my thoughts and I found that the blog posts actually go viral more frequently than the podcast does but what that Obviously does is people are on the website and there's the big podcast up at the top left side of the web page And anytime someone goes to say the dam score dot com because they saw a link on twitter to something else I mean, it's a way to introduce them To the podcast it's kind of just I think the multi platform thing has been very helpful for me personally Yeah, I love I love that sort of you know for me. That's what social does I I put out tons of content, but it's never to one channel All the time, right? So if you want to consume how to podcast or if you're in a video and you follow me There's there's content Almost pretty much every day, but it's not always in one spot and the podcast can be real spotty So I love that sort of feeding the audience something they want Uh all the time and keeping them sort of Engaged in between the podcast episodes and there you go. You've got discovery there, right? People are discovering that you have a podcast or maybe people just they want the content from you They want your perspective, but they want in a different format which you're able to give them They might want the blog and they don't want a podcast So, you know, I think that that's definitely something to consider If you're starting out, you know, every podcast can be a blog but not every blog can be a podcast. So, uh You know, take what you can handle. Maybe it's twitter. Maybe it's facebook Don't try and necessarily do them all but adding in something else In between the gaps. I mean, you're certainly probably doing research for your show So you have something to tweet out Once a day or something to post on instagram or even short blog posts. So that yeah, that's great anyone else I think my my top two the well the biggest one will be that you need to get over the fact That your friends and family will listen to the first few They're probably not going to listen after that because they're already sick of In my case you ranting on about the thing that you're passionate about They may be not so passionate about the other one is Ray you talked about equipment and and the audio I would say get the best equipment that you can afford Don't don't bankrupt yourself buying, you know Some fancy microphone like I've got here You can see over my right shoulder there. There's there's four or five different microphones I just sort of picked up I started with a very cheap 10 pound Sterling usb microphone that sounded awful So I went up my spent a little bit more spent a little bit more until I end up spending nearly 200 pound on This monstrosity that I've got here so I think just get the best that you can afford at the time and things like the sm the sure sm 58 microphone If you're going for a straight Sort of non usb setup Is perfect, you know and and you can buy those for $50 secondhand on ebay and you will sell it if things don't work out for $50 on ebay, so Yeah, just look at things like that Yeah, I definitely I like that. I think when it comes to audio, you know, I'm just just You're thinking about your podcast. You're you're you're right now at your first 10 episodes You're doing outline whatever spend a little time in the audio. You just have to be mindful of it You don't have to spend a ton of money Just pay attention a little bit right because you might have great content But if if people are just having trouble hearing it Then you've kind of lost them and then you might that might be your one shot to hook them in Pastor 10 episodes. So yeah, it's definitely some good advice sherry. Yeah Yeah, I was gonna say for my audio I I just am moving up to an atr 2100 and I can't get it to work with my computer But when I found alphonic it made such a difference So for me, it was listening like you said listening as a member of the general public and then expect to keep learning You're not going to get it all figured out and dialed into what you want and definitely listen to shows like Daniels and daves because they're always throwing stuff out and I haven't listened to your back catalog Dave I started about two years ago. So repeating stuff probably isn't a bad idea So that's to me. I go back to On occasion you'll be watching the sport show And in cleveland We're always repairing our teams because they're awful and every now and then somebody will say well We got to go back to the basics and learn how to tackle or we got to do back and you know And sometimes it's not a bad idea to go back and repeat the basics because I mean I read michael hyatt's book Uh-huh It's red Yes, thank you book I read platform every year And it's it's that's my going back to the basics because he talks about making good content and blah blah blah So I start off every year with that book Oh that michael hyatt remind me Head started listening to him before just before I got the idea to podcast and I loved his advice to say Take on one thing at a time I'm trying to learn facebook twitter podcasts blogging video at the works at the all at once If you do one thing at a time learn it so you've got a system and then add something on you're much less likely to burn out Yeah, that's it for me That's something I do now that I didn't when I started is I and there are a ton of these you can use one note every note Um, there's a ton of them But I use every note now so that when I'm in the car when I'm walking the dog Whatever I'm doing and I have an idea and I'm like, oh, I need to remember this I now write that down. We're in the past it'd be like I'm going to remember this I'm going to remember this and I would get home and I'm like Oh, what was that again? So now I have a way to to capture those ideas That in the past would just float away What do you think is um I think the most important thing I'll leave a wide open the most important thing When starting a podcast is I'm just gonna leave it I'm gonna leave that wide open Jump in and be consistent. It's just uh However, whenever you do it whether it's weekly or bi-weekly just make sure that somehow some way you You have content when you say you're gonna have it And again, you know what if you have that niche you're going to have somebody who's interested Whether it's good or not and and you just know you'll get better as you go on Logan, are you still in radio? Yes. Yes, I am. What are the radio? What do your radio friends think of your podcast? You know what I just um started it uh Before I went to the last conference and had been about 10 episodes deep and I had a ton of positive feedback on it. It's one of those things where I've been able to Get some big names in the industry who have some stories And you can hear that they started exactly where we're at where I'm at a big part of my podcast as I am in Nowhere, South Dakota and I have uh big dreams to climb the ladder and that's kind of the angle that I Ask my questions from and built my show from and write my blog post from and it's been There's a lot of people in the industry who relate to it and a lot of people who have found some value Valuable it doesn't sound like I'm in radio the way I said that but But no, it's just uh, it's it's gotten very positive feedback and it's it's been growing consistently since I started it I didn't have a big Marketing outlet. There's a big facebook group about sports casting But I think just about every month except for maybe one or two I've had more downloads than I had the month before and that has continued uh since month one Does does does everyone else hear the sports broadcaster and Logan? I do I can hear it It's there. You got it. No, it's a good thing. It's a good thing. You got it dialed in. Hey, uh, who else has uh Who else has advice for you know, or what's that? What's the most important thing starting my guys? Obviously, you can't take get started because I that is actually mine It's the best advice. You do need to get started But uh, Logan was first so I I had a Goal that by the end of the first year I'll be averaging 100 downloads or listens or whatever the metric is per episode And I was talking to another podcaster about that who gave me some really good Advice along the way and he's and I was worried that that wasn't enough. He said to me Could you imagine being in a room with 100 people while you sat there and talk to them For one hour. What would that feeling be like? I thought Wow, that's huge. That's huge. I couldn't Sit in that room and do what I do As a podcast in front of those 100 people Without absolutely messing it up or getting the stage fright or something like that So that's how I think about it now You know if for somebody starting out if they're hitting 10 20 30 downloads or listens per show If they're worried about that, how would they feel if they're they're Presenting that to that live audience is that is that size of that audience big enough then Right. I mean, I think there's definitely something to say there for expectations We do You're gonna start those first 10 episodes and you're gonna stare at your download If you if you have stats, you're gonna stare at them Guaranteed and every single You're gonna refresh and it's gonna say five downloads and you're gonna refresh and it's gonna say six downloads And you're gonna wonder where the seventh download is because you went to bed and you woke up and no one said so It's probably tamper your expectations and realize what each one of those downloads means like you said 100 downloads means 100 people listening to you Approximately so yeah, definitely Don't hold yourself to What you see in itunes at the top of the charts those people they came with an audience, right? So I like that sort of idea of of sort of Looking at your own expectations and then really considering what it means when someone you get those downloads But that's a key point. We are all worried about what we're gonna sound like And when you first start nobody's listening so that's when you can get all the work out all the bugs And don't think about talking to a crowd. I always try to talk like I'm talking to one person sitting across my desk Because in the end that's probably who's listening is one person It's not like they're it's not like it's 1928 and there's five people gathered around the radio listening together. So Talk to what I talk to myself now as I'm talking A lot of people will will talk to the audience and Um interact with the audience that isn't there, but I actually talk to myself and I ask myself questions I'll say I'll start on a topic and I say haven't haven't we talked about this before jason? What do you know let's move on to something else sort of thing and It just works. It just works for me We have a new roundtabler. Yes cherry Who do you have there? My little whole coast she's been begging to be my whole coast on She can't actually hear because I've got the um headset. Um, yeah I was thinking for big picture you've got consistency But one of the things that I am putting in my course because I've been watching like daniel even dave and myself A lot of the people are really successful podcasters have been musical in Are really good at some sort of musical instrument because we had to learn that kind of consistency and character and have something to say so For me, I tell families. Hey, if you've got a child who's not musical, but you still want to develop that skill set Podcasting is a good way to do it if they like to talk So you've got to have something to say and then you've got to know that this is a long term um character That you're sorry that she's getting distracted Character skill set, but it's gonna be worth it and I think about only one person at a time Where I would quit right away if I knew I was facing as many people as my pastor does Yeah, and that's you know, definitely Oh, that was it reminded me of something, but then you made me laugh and I totally forgot it You should have written it down in one note. We've just talked about that. That's right. Yeah, I'm pencil and paper guy We don't have any pencil paper Left around but yeah, I mean all great tips I mean there's so much to consider when you start off podcasting But you know, we've heard some good things Get started don't get paralyzed by you know be a little mindful Um have something to say Now, you know, that can be a tough one. Some people will say Well, I want to start a podcast, but I don't want to talk. I don't know what I want to talk about. Well Are you just a gear junkie like me? I mean, why do you want to start a podcast? Does this just seem cool to be in front of people on a mic? Maybe that's it But you know for me in the beginning I was you know, it was so long ago and I was like, how is this being done? What is the tech and I'm a gear junkie and I got to figure this stuff out and it's amazing that people have this global voice So I did need something to talk about and I just asked myself the question that I heard someone You know in a book that's teaching people how to write like What do you what do you know about like talk about what you know about and early on that was some Some tips on a job I had but so definitely Put some time and do it think about it those first 10 episodes You might want to have a little bit of a plan if you know where you want your show to go or Who you want to reach or what kind of niche you want to break into there? Definitely some things you can do to plan Around that to start to grow that audience right if you know you want to reach Um basketball players who live in alabama, then you then you probably should tailor your show In that direction right completely random off top of my head. I've never been alabama nor do I play basketball? That was for Logan So yeah, so those are great tips, but as we go out here definitely Tell us where we can find One of your podcasts that these days on this show everyone's got like more than one podcast So if we sat here and we just rattle them all off we'd never leave but tell us where we can find The podcast that is beyond 10 episodes and uh, and and if you have anything else to share feel free But thanks for being on the round table. Dave. I will head out. Thanks for co-hosting duties as well Yeah, I'm Dave Jackson. You can find me over at school of podcasting.com Perfect and uh, sherry. Thanks for joining us And I'm at creation science the number four kids dot com Awesome. I've got some that was that was a quite a car that went by there Oh, sorry about that. That's the one thing I can't cure in my audio. Do I need to say it again? No, we got it, but thank you so much. Yeah, that's tough, right? I mean, and this is something else in the first episodes You got to find that spot to record and it could be really tough And I think a lot of people think that some of us just have these amazing places where Distractions never happened, but no, it really just means that we stopped We waited for the attraction to go by and he kept going so edit those first 10 episodes Um, don't try to you know, most of us are not good enough on a microphone To just rattle off for 30 minutes and publish. So put some consideration into editing those first episodes Logan, thanks for joining us in your first round table Yep, I'm logan aderson and I have uh only one podcast. So that's easy enough for me It's a say the dam score podcast at say the dam score dot com Very cool. And jason jason, where are you located? I'm in the uk. I mean, uh, not far outside of livapool in uk. Nice. What time is it? It's 20 minutes to one It's tomorrow We have a strong international contingent on the show, which I really love. So thanks for staying up late Say this is your a podcaster in my beer normal hours, but uh, and where's that show? So it's at skeptic smash talk dot com All right, very cool. All right, everyone podcasters round table dot com sign up to the list if you want to be on the round table Like sherry logan jason. We finally got them on I picked everyone here, you know, you go to podcasters round table dot com slash guest You'll get a form that'll say what do you want to talk about and i'm not sure that anything that these That these round round table is put on their list I don't think we talked about those but there were clues in there that I dig in and i'm saying You know what? I've got this topic first in episodes and I picked all you for a reason Maybe your show is newer So something in there gave a clue so we'll get you on don't worry about too much what you put on there But put on some things on that list that you think you might want to discuss less how to more sort of what for Uh, the daily issues that podcasters face and we'll get you on so podcasters round table dot com slash list Moving on to 91. We'll see you next time wave. Goodbye everybody. Thank you Thanks I'm waving but you can't see We have we have that once in a while