 We're good for recording. Okay, since we did not have a quorum last week, we didn't approve the minutes from the Monday meeting. And so we don't have minutes for the Thursday meeting because of a lack of a quorum to discuss things. So can we have a motion to approve the minutes from last Monday or does somebody have a comment on them or something? Martin, just to real quick, we are actually approving the minutes from our first meeting on 9-9. And so the minutes from last Monday, either way, it's 9-9 that we need to approve, which I recirculated last week. Okay. We have that motion to approve 9-9 minutes. Seriously, is there a second? Sure. Okay. I'll take that as a yes. My minutes are approved. So we spent some good time last week, reviewing warning labels and all variety of labels. We had the good fortune of making contact to this initiative. Make contact with the doctor in Princeton, right? Is that where he still is? Yes, he's in Princeton, New Jersey, who has done a lot of work on warning labels, particularly for the cannabis industry. And he can foresee a time as I think we all can when there will be national legalization and there will be a need to have some national standards for warning labels, for advisory statements and other things on both advertisements and packaging. So maybe we should start with a quick overview of that, Denika. Sure, let me actually add in a little bit of additional information. For everyone on the call, Dr. David Nathan and his son Eli will work on international standards now for cannabis, not just for warning labels and warning signs, but also for packaging, which is one of our hot topics that we have inside of the subcommittee to put forth recommendations on. So I'll be sharing some information additionally on that, but what Dr. Nathan, he is an MD, Dr. Levine, so that you're aware he's a psychiatrist and what he put forth with his son, what they put together is actually follows ISO 3864, International Warning Label Standards, so that's fantastic. So there's an element of ISO and ANSI, American National Standards Institute and then also there's another organization in there that they follow as well. So Ingrid was with us last week, she saw some of this and gave some thoughts and opinions on it. But additionally, what's important that I'll be showing you today is some mockups that I did just, and I'm not a designer, but I'm enough of a designer to show you what something might look like using some of their standards and then we'll be circulating some additional information for everyone on here. So the other item that I would add is that last week we shared some state specific warning language that is available online that follows different state statutes. And so what I did was put together Mark and I, a combination of what some of that might look like into a Word document that is marked as a draft, written as a draft, just for you all to have something to react to and maybe what I would like to do after this is maybe take that away, mark it up, write on it, give your thoughts and perspectives because it does follow, it's the natural progression of everything that we have put forth. So for you, Dr. Levine and also Tim Wessel who I don't believe is with us today, the only things you have not seen is a white paper that Dr. Nathan has put together for the state of New York that he said we could share with you and then also these warning signs. So with that being said, Mark, feel free to jump in at any time. I'm gonna just go over. I always keep, we always keep what our deadline is which we are now at the one month milestone of being able to be complete with this October 20th. So that is why we are accelerating with items for you that you'll be receiving after this meeting today. I think Danika. Yes. I'm sorry to interrupt. You're fine. I have to wait to see if we would have any further attendance. So whether we do or not, let's take the goal if we could. Thank you. So Danika is here. Oh, Tim Wessel is waiting in the lobby. That's excellent. Hey, Tim. Hi, can you hear me? Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Sorry about that. Real technical issues here for a moment. Okay, also from NACB, we have Gina, Gina Cranwinkle, CEO. From the advisory committee, we have a full house today. Ingrid Jones. Present. Dr. Mark Levine. Tim Wessel. Dear joining us from the control board staff, we have, let's see, Julie, Julie Holberg. Yep, we have Julie and Nellie in the room. And I just wanna share with you that we can, because of the screen sharing, we can hear you and we can see your screen, but we can't see each person talking. So it would be helpful, I think, for those of us in the room, if people just sort of say who they are when they talk for this time. Fantastic. Thank you. Yes, of course. Okay, and you said there are three additional attendees in the at your boardroom. Yes. Members of the public, members of the... All members of the public. Yep, all members of the public. Okay, great. Excellent. As we get started, there were no public comments received in writing to the public health committee. So at the end, we will, of course, at the 10 minute before the hour mark offer the public the opportunity to make comments. Before we get started, Tim, Ingrid or Dr. Levine, are there any questions that you may have? For me at this time. Okay. Tim, at this time, thanks. Okay, thank you so much. All right, very good. So Mark and I have actually melded phase one and two together. So we really have a phase one and a phase two, even that the bottom says three, because we know that these are the most pressing items. So we'll be going over some of that information today and then Edibles, some of that is already melding into also into phase one. So I'm gonna move forward on this. I sent everyone, or Mark and I sent everyone on the subcommittee and also to the CCB some language that has been enacted in other states. And so there were commonalities that we saw across the board and then also some additional items observed. Of course, we saw the very common, the ones that seem to be the most common were impairment, not operating machinery or driving that things could be habit forming, not safer kids, adults 21 and older and that marijuana should not be by pregnant or breastfeeding women. There were also additional items noted and observed, such as delayed impairment by two hours or more with Edibles and Ingrid will touch on the Edibles piece and some research that we've got coming your way as well based on your comment the other day. Accidental ingestion with a poison control number, not safer pets, that there's limited information on health risks and again, two elements related to children and then also psychoactives and synthetics as it relates to things like Delta 8. So in keeping with the theme that was requested the public health committee, we do believe that Massachusetts being as new as it is, but they've really had the opportunity to hone in and evolve their messaging. So and because they are a New England state, they're one that you'll find that we reference often for different items. There's some elements that they have combined with other states that I'll be sharing with you shortly on just what a draft again might look like of some of these items. I would like to tell everyone, other than creating a mock warning label, it is nothing that everyone has not already seen in some capacity through our meetings and also information that we provided to you as resources for these meetings. Then also we believe this is a good starting point as well, one of this long guideline for Massachusetts that may be related to the in-store warning flyer that needs to be available to the public. And we can talk a little bit more about that. That is not something that has been completely drafted yet for you to react to, but that is also in the works. Could I just ask a quick question? Sure, absolutely. Is everyone seeing content right now? Because my screen says can't display content. Oh no. So I'm not sure why. It's definitely coming through Microsoft Teams that says can't display content. I have the other, what you're speaking of in front of me, I think, but I don't know why I'm not getting that display. You know what? Let me forward this to you, or... I think I have it. Okay. I mean, you, going over the different states warnings and stuff and such, I printed it out, old school and everything, but I just kind of... See if I was the only one who wasn't seeing something here. It's a technically challenging morning, for sure. So from there, and Mark, I'm gonna let you take over because I'm sitting outside and it's a little noisy right here on other pieces of Massachusetts. Okay, the Massachusetts guidelines in terms of packaging also include, and warning language include what's considered to be, you know, acceptable font sized in order to ensure legibility, of course. And 10 point times new Roman or Arial, which are both very common and I think we probably all use many times is, you know, it's not real big, but you know, packaging isn't necessarily real big either. So keep out of reach of children, for instance, for example, is a common theme on the labels. The cannabis products that contain multiple servings have to have a statement that points that out and says how many servings in the package and also how many milligrams usually of THC are in a single serving. So again, the font size is gonna be 10 point at a minimum. Is that, I know everybody spends a lot of time in front of the screen. Does that seem to be an acceptable, reasonable minimum size for warning labels on a package? I think as we go through here, we'll try to ask your consensus on things like this so that we can start checking them off. You don't have to review them again and again. Yeah, this is Tim speaking. It seems like that would be a good minimum to have. Anything under 10 point is pushing the limits of non-reading glasses material for me, I know. That's why I always take my glasses to the grocery store, okay. I concur with this. Good, thanks. So where I see a challenge coming in and we can talk about this when I share another document and Tim, I'm trying to get these over to you is that when we go to something like a tamper proof label, it's just something we'll all need to think about. I was able to make these warnings 10 point just so you could see, but at the sacrifice of other things. So if a tamper proof warning label is somewhere that we're going, that will most definitely be something that we need to take into consideration so that we can balance everything. All right, Mark, I'm going to flip ahead if you want to talk about these international length standards and I'm going to try and get this over to you, Tim. Yeah, Denika mentioned Dr. Nathan, who has his son have developed these, a lot of these graphics. And you've seen this before, we had some conversation about whether it was a good portrayal of a cannabis leaf. So I think this is the one that we, I think this graphic is one that we all agreed was more realistic. So we've seen before, number four, this is Vermont. We've seen others that are similar to this that say Massachusetts or Maine and I think there was a growing consensus that we should probably try to standardize with the other states in New England. So everybody has a clear understanding of what this is conveying. So one thing I'd like to add about this and Tim, I did just hit send. So you should receive something at any moment and we'll be on slide nine of 21. One thing I'd like to convey with this that's important and why this particular symbol may matter. And we also have some comparisons to other states is that these do follow ISO 3864, which is standardized safety signs, international safety signs. And so what the Nathan's did was prepare for Vermont six different examples that could be used. And when I do share some additional information, I did pick number two with THC and BT just to show, but any of them would work. And the other important thing that is for these standards for packaging and also warning labels that is nice is that they are available at no charge to be used or adapted by regulators and others that are in the industry. So we did speak a little with Ingrid on this the other day and Ingrid, I know you've seen this twice. I'd love to get your thoughts on these symbols. So Tim, I know you may be opening it up. Dr. Levine, do you have any considerations here that work for you? And this would be a symbol, a constant warning symbol. I mean, you wanted it to be consistent across New England, you were saying. Well, consistent across New England, absolutely with language at a minimum. But we can certainly do what Massachusetts has, but we wanted to share with you this that does follow ISO. And we can go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm trying to remember what Massachusetts looked like. I like Vermont spelled out and I like THC, but I'm not sure I like number two and number three. Gotcha, no worries. Thank you. Here's a, if you can see it, I don't know if it's the right way to do it. That's great. But we've got Massachusetts in Maine, thanks to you, see, it's a similar graphic. I just have a question about why we got away from red and moved to yellow in this, just wondering. Sure, go for it. I think we were talking about red before. That is the ISO piece of this, is that yellow is an international symbol of caution and warning, not necessarily a symbol of stop. And so again, we were following the ISO principles behind this. We can certainly take the same thing and go to red if you'd like to see it that way, but that is the thing. And this also keeps in line a little with just the caution element. And that's why they use yellow and that is also their justification in that. Thank you. No problem, Tim, any thoughts? And you were, the consensus so far has been for number two. Is that correct? I don't think we have a consensus. I think this is our starting point on the following the international standards piece. I think the leaf, my leaf concerns are alleviated. So that's a much better leaf to use. It's perfect, I think. THC is good to be on there. My only comment is the red triangle did seem to be a little bit more of an eye catcher and more cautionary to the layman, I think. And by my eye, the yellow seems, I mean, this could just be just the particular print or whatever, but the yellow seems pretty mellow, so to speak, especially when you look at it compared to the highlighting. So if we're abandoning the red, I would advocate for a brighter yellow requirement or something, but... I would say we are not abandoning anything at this point. This is first signal, first sign for reaction to. We'll make a similar sign with red on it and let everyone see it as well, and that can be done today when some additional materials that I'm going to share will go out to you. Okay, great. Yeah, again, my concern would be that if we're not using the red, if it has to be a two color, for instance, or whatever, the yellow is a little mellow and that might be variable. So you might even lose the cautionary effect with that color only. Okay, in the age of digital printing, it's not like it was years ago. You know, you can do more with color than we could 20 years ago. So I think that it's all doable, I would say. And again, opportunity for something to react to. Great. Okay, I'm going to go on to the next slide. And again, you've already seen these, but advertising guidelines and examples up. This is California's notice and the reason we show it is because it's very concise. You have a copy of it, we'll send it again. And then an advertising checklist and why that matters is because it lets the licensee or the dispensary people know what they need to do in order to be in compliant with what is required of them by the state. And we have developed this as a, also the green bar at the top and sort of mocked up a cannabis control board version of this that can be used to notify either advertisers or staff who are in charge of looking at the advertisements. So we'll send that out with our next package as well. Yes. So from there, this is only to remind everyone of the language that would be used for the handout, the health and safety handout that would go with the purchase of cannabis. And how I envision this to be as a marketer is this would almost be something that they could either print and have as a trifold or print and have a tear off pad and be able to hand out this language to people as they purchased, should they choose to take it. And Tim, I think you'll like a way that we change the words on the warning that cannabis is illegal under federal law. We've got some thoughts on that that may be a little bit better for you all. So I'm going to stop presenting and I'm going to pull up a Word document which may be a little harder to see, Tim. I did email that to you, but I can blow it up some but everyone will get the Word document with any modifications that we may do today before we go further. Any additional questions or thoughts before I bring that up. I'm going to upload another document. Mark, if you want to pick up for just a second, I'm going to pause myself while I pull this, okay? Sure. All right, so we need health warnings for cannabis packages as well as cannabis advertisements. And I want to get back to something that I mentioned before, which is perplexing language in the statute that says that if there is a chance that an advertisement would be misleading rather than just saying no to the advertisement, there's the option of putting a warning label on it. And I was puzzling about this and it just occurred to me that there's an awful lot of advertisements and packages in the market today, especially with say nutritional supplements that say caution these, this product has not been analyzed by the FDA or it has not been approved for any kind of medical use or anything like that. So maybe that's really what the drafters of the statute had in mind. And since this didn't occur to me until this morning, we'll write up some things based on what else is in the marketplace and send those along as well as the more standard, more standard warnings and disclaimers that for your consideration and for your approval. Can everyone see my screen now? Sorry, Mark, please pitch. Yes, I can see it too. Okay, great, fantastic. So for everyone on here, Mark, I don't wanna interrupt you if there was something additional you wanted to say. No, no, I was just gonna say, in the interest of sort of moving this process along, I think there's a lot of love here that we agree on that we're comfortable with because we've seen it in the marketplace. And I think we need maybe just to circulate a draft of some of these things for you all to take off in advance in the next meeting. So we can. Which we will do that today. So the intent of this document is to show what something might look like. And for everyone on here, the language in here is language that has been circulated or that we have all seen in some capacity, be it from another state or from another item. But what the intent was was to put it all on paper so that you as the subcommittee and so that Julie and her team could take a look at something and actually see what a tangible item might look like. It is clearly marked draft. I would also like to say that these are not final. They are for discussion purposes only and will of course require professional layout. So what's important here is that it goes through some of the items that we saw or that really stood out to us. And it starts off with basically the licensee or any person needs to comply with the statutes by the cannabis control board. Any advertising or promoting must identify the licensee responsible for the advertising content. That's something that would definitely want to be considered so that you know who was doing whatever was out there including possibly. And again, this is for you to react to. Their brand and dispensary name and possibly their state license number on the advertising. But we're going to lump everything together and say promotion. I'm not gonna read necessarily to everyone on here but it does follow different elements of the statute and may not be all encompassing at this moment but it talks about what you shouldn't do. And we start with children. Ingrid, I know that's something that you often come back to but anything like toys, inflatables, characters, friendly depictions of food or any other consumable. And then it also, you don't want it to appeal to anyone under the age of 21. Then any use of minors or images of minors under 21. This one is not, is one that we added in which is to be located within a thousand feet of a daycare center school playground or other youth center. That is something we have seen in other states when it comes to advertising. They shouldn't publish or disseminate anything without first obtaining reliable and verifiable up-to-date audience composition. And this follows your statute where 85% of the audience viewing the advertising or promotion should be 21. No free goods or giveaways of any type. It needs to, you should not promote anything false, untrue or create some misleading impression. And includes any statement concerning a brand or product inconsistent with any statement on the labeling thereof. And I'll show you a label in a moment. And so again, everyone will get this and the opportunity to review it or have your team or staff review it as well. Then this follows similar to what Massachusetts had done which is the overall warning where it talks about no FDA approval, limited health information, pregnancy and breastfeeding and the harm, it's illegal to drive, keep it away from kids, could be health risks associated, may impair concentration coordination and judgment that edibles may be delayed two hours and accidental ingestion with poison control or 911. And then this product may be illegal outside of Vermont. And then also adds it's illegal to transport cannabis across state lines. It made me some of these, maybe all of these. I did just notice I didn't put the habit forming in there but what I would like to ask the control board at this point is, is the start of this document keeping in the spirit of what you would like to see just as a gut reaction? Yes. Okay, fantastic. And for the subcommittee, is this meeting your expectation of what you'd like to be able to react to, possibly add or take away? I would say yes, this is Tim. Okay. I do have a question. Sure. Have we examined that requirement of at least 85% of audience? I mean, did we learn at a couple of meetings ago that is higher than other standard in other states? You are, that is in the statute and 85%, I believe, is also what Massachusetts is doing. I know for example, California does 70% 21 or older in the audience. So that is why it's specifically states 85%. I'll give you another quick example Tim, like the be located within 1,000 feet of a daycare center, school playground or youth center, daycare center that is. I don't recall seeing that exactly in the statute, but that may be something that the subcommittee would like to recommend as a consideration for cannabis advertising. So that's why you may see more in here than, and we can clearly mark some of those items. Ingrid or Dr. Levine, any considerations or thoughts? I just had a separate question. Sure. I'm wondering along the lines of accidental ingestion, I'm aware of sort of the fact that any type of edible related things may not be intentionally branded toward children, but generally things with sugar and that are gummy related are delicious looking and are attractive to people of all ages. And I just wonder in terms of child resistant packaging and I can't remember what our law says in terms of child resistant packaging for edibles in terms of avoiding or helping with accidental ingestion concerns. Without having it in front of me, it definitely does talk about tamper proof. And I will pull that for you in there. And so with purchasing some of those items, they typically are sealed, but to what extent I think we should dive into. And you'll see on one of the next pages that packaging is, we're gonna definitely be talking about that within the next one or two meetings. And I appreciate your comments on that because it is incredibly important. Dr. Levine thoughts? You know, just a sort of editorial thought that this bottom paragraph that you have up there now would benefit from the same bulletin that you used in the above. Okay. For clarity and to make sure people almost have a checklist to adhere to. Got it. Thank you for that. Tim, does this address or make you, does it feel a little different than to say federally illegal to use this product, maybe illegal outside of Vermont? Okay. It's a little complicated. I mean, I think it's a friendly say the same thing whether or not that's a good thing is something I'll have to think about myself. No problem. Absolutely. And again, for everyone on the subcommittee, that is the intent of this document is for you to have reactions to write on it, type over it, whatever your thoughts are. So that what we can do is marry all three of your thoughts and mine and Mark's recommendations for something to put forth to the CCB. So additionally, we broke this out then in different things, product advertising. You know, specifically if something was going to be advertised say in a magazine ad and I have seen some of those where they may have one disclaimer. These could be some of the required statements. Now again, we have taken these from what Massachusetts has done, but what Massachusetts does is you have to do the first bullet and then any two of the next five. I did not put that in there because I believe that as the subcommittee, it's your considerations for what you feel are the best things for your constituents and your consumers in the state of Vermont versus saying pick and choose two. If you decide that an advertiser should pick and choose two, that's okay, but if you would like something more or something less, I believe that is the responsibility of the subcommittee and the recommendations in that area. But to remind you, Massachusetts does the first one and then any two of the below for advertising. This is also a reminder, any thoughts on that before we move on? We're almost done with these pieces. Just a quick question. You said, Massachusetts requires please consume responsibly and then other bullets below, any two? Any two below. Okay. And I am heading while we're speaking if you guys can see that so that when you receive this document, you will know. You know, I think I was gonna suggest that somewhere else, I don't know exactly where I was seeing that a state always put marijuana product. I think if you have please consume responsibly, it would be great to begin it with this as a marijuana product, please consume responsibly because you'd never know where sort of the connection of marijuana might get lost in the packaging from the retailer, from the producer. Agreed. I don't know, just something to throw out there that you sort of combine, it's a short sentence anyway so maybe we can squeeze in there that it's make it clear that it's a marijuana product. Excellent. Any other thoughts from the subcommittee on this area? So when you were talking about the, any two? Yes. That's, in what frame of reference are we? Like where is it showing up? If you, if an advertiser was advertising a product, for example, in a magazine where they had a print ad, that would be an example of where it may show up. So that would be the only spot or if they had any posters even in their store promoting cannabis of a product. So it would truly be something that is visual to a consumer. Okay, because I'm looking at this list and it's just so hard to like exclude something. Agreed. Because each item is so unique. It's not like if we left out the pregnant or breastfeeding, we're fine because we've said it may cause impairment. You know, I mean, it's so hard to sort of look at those in isolation and say they can't be a grouping because they all are addressing different aspects of the caution statement. You know, one, that's probably one reason why the federal tobacco labeling rules have a, I don't know if they have something like a dozen different warnings that are supposed to be rotated maybe, I don't know how many per year, but they get, they are rotated on the packages. And so that you, it's kind of like a moving, you know, it's like a, it's a moving warning. And it probably gets people's attention a little bit better. And we can take a look at what that would be. Yeah, I mean, it is hard to read a list, but at the same time, if each item on the list is so unique and important, it's hard to exclude. True. Yeah, and if you print them all together and on one label, that becomes like too much information. Exactly. Okay. Danika, can I interject for a second? Did you share with us this, did you share with us a sample that had a QR code on it? A label that had a QR code? I have not shared a QR code yet, but we can. Okay, I just. That could go to a warning page. Right, I just wonder that that would be helpful to this particular concern. You got it. Which also then would go into the additional recommendation, which is not on here, on this particular page, but that of how we expand the warnings and the educational aspect online. Ingrid, do you have anything you'd like to add here? No, I agree with the concerns as they've been highlighted. Excellent. Thank you. Dr. Levine circulated last week an advisory from the CDC about total THC being important to know. And I think that that problem is with Delta 8 and that there are products now being introduced in the market that not only have Delta 9, but Delta 8 as well. And if you are not advising your consumers, at the total level of THC, then some people are going to run into trouble with too much exposure. Seems like this, that what they're advising is is that that be considered as a warning to the CDC. And I don't haven't seen that in any other states, but it's something that we will mark something up for your consideration. And that has to do with the moving target aspect of everything we use. We're going to have the benefit of starting fresh and be the newer kid on the block so we can incorporate something like that, but we still can't possibly anticipate what will come next because there will be a next, I know next, next. So we have to make sure our wording allows for that kind of flexibility so that future changes won't be hard to work it in. I really appreciate that. And I also appreciate what Julie just noted on QR codes because there is the opportunity for rapid change. And a lot of consumers now are, it's something that's become the norm because of COVID-19 to take your phone out and scan a menu. So there is a similar aspect of it's in our nature right now to seek your codes. And so I think there is tremendous opportunity here because things can be done in real time. So as we also mentioned, one of the things that we truly do like is the 10 point font that is an easily legible font. I would take times out of there and I don't have that an example to show you why, but I will show you one. I did not pop it in here today because it's a little harder to read as it's a more curved font. It has more of a serif to it. Keep out a breach of children and then also includes multiple servings. And again, we haven't necessarily scratched the surface on the edible packaging and the overall packaging aspect yet. So I'd like to revisit the warning labels because what I've done for the subcommittee and the CCB and this is again something to react to is put together a quick label. And the reason I say quick is I want you to be able to see it. But this, I'm gonna blow my screen up a little and there's a specific reason why. If you were to research cannabis labels online, that are for tamper proof, they typically are 2.75 inches by 0.75 inches. So this is an a quick example using number two right here, but with four different warnings because of space and the only thing that those at the top are not of course 10 point font they can't be, they won't fit. But they may contain multiple servings is just a different way that I put it on there in the event and then that is eight point and then keep out a breach of children is 10. So this would be, and again, we need a graphic designer to do this for us, but this would be a starting point for what a tamper proof label may be able to look like. A tamper proof sticky label, I should say. Especially for something that was packaged on premise. I will tell you, and I'll put these in here some additional items that I am seeing and this would come down where, you know, on a compliance and enforcement side. And I don't see, I'm with you, Dr. Levine. I don't see how you can see all of these items, but one of the very first things I saw on one of these was a, the very first thing said, do not consume until you reach your destination. So that was an additional thought if for someone who bought it in there, it's not much different than alcohol. You're not supposed to consume on premises, but I did want to put that out there. So this is an aerial style font. And again, it just is a first thing for you to see what something might look like. And when you see it in your Word document, it'll make, you'll be able to see actual size. You know, that do not open container until you've reached your destination. It's a backwards way of saying, you know, don't smoke and drive or would have an unoperative vehicle or heavy machinery while using them. I'm wondering if maybe that is just a little too much repetition. Possibly. And I know I say this a lot. So everyone, please forgive me. This is definitely an area where I want you to have something to react to. Because as I've said in my career, when people see things, they either know what they like or they know what they don't like or it misses the mark altogether. But without a visual, it's a little tougher. And I do want you for the group note that we are at 10 minutes till because I will be for public comments since I will be sending this out. I will share quickly that this is what a paragraph would look like. And the only reason I put a paragraph in here was due to limited space. So I want to give everyone a chance to say anything. So from there, additional items to be built, packaging, checklists for development, how to submit for approvals. And I do want to add the QR code element for consideration here as well. Julie, before we move, I would, I know it's time for public comments, but do we have any? And if so, if not, may we continue? It does not appear that we have any public comment. Okay. Deneke, I wonder, is part of your wrap up talking about any decisions that you can make maybe on Thursday related to these? Yes. Okay, perfect. Absolutely. So what we'd like to do is, first off, I did want everyone to see this and if there's any reaction or first consideration of what something might look like if it was the entire label. I welcome your feedback now or in writing. I could just, are you asking the comparison? Yeah. Narrative versus the bullet point. Yeah, more so the narrative versus the bullet point. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I think the bullet point in CAPS are sort of much more to the point, although I do like the reference to poison control hotline. Which could be it. The narrative, yeah. Which could be its own bullet. You know that I like bullets. You got it. What do the marketing people in the world say about how often anybody reads anything on a warning label? Do we, I mean, with all the tobacco experience we have in stuff, do we actually know? So I will tell you from my perspective is no matter what, it takes a consumer three times of seeing something for them to get it. So whether they read necessarily the label or not, the idea of this type of label is you can't get in the package without seeing it because it goes over the top. So that helps, number one. And so definitely something for us to consider. I would also add that that is definitely the reason for bright and red and all CAPS on some of whatever it is that you want to get out there. So Dr. Levine, I would welcome, once we send this back out, you had mentioned your own internal public health marketing team and even some of their reactions on this so that we can keep this moving forward if you would be so inclined. I think in answer to, I think it was Julie's question, I think it would be a good idea for us to put something like a ballot together. Yep. Where we can get that out to, you know, by the, in the next day or so that itemized is the things that we think we're ready to take a decision on and what we move on to after that. And it's not a ballot to be filled in and mailed back, but just something that we can check through pretty easily pretty quickly on Thursday. Does that sound okay to everyone? Would that be a good way to approach? It does sound fine. Danika, did you say that there'll be one more chance to weigh in on the label itself? Oh, there's many chances to weigh in. I truly just wanted to give the subcommittee something to see, you know, something to see. I have some additional thoughts, but I want you to share that at another quick meeting. I am a fantastic with that. That is truly, because we are starting from scratch, it was our goal to give you something to see. How big test for me today. So, Julie, is there anything additional you'd like us to add here before we wrap? I think, you know, we have our marching orders and some things that we need to do, but to make sure that we're also in line with where the process should be. And again, then we could move on to packaging after this. Yeah, I think if folks take the time to kind of review everything that you've discussed today and then you can take through a list on Thursday of some decision points, I think that would be great. Fantastic. So Mark and I will get something out to the team. Additional, Tim, I'll, I sent you this word doc, but I'll update it and send it to you again with some additional notes in it. But any thoughts or considerations, we certainly welcome them. And especially if we're missing something or if you feel like something needs to come out or go in, that we welcome that because again, our job is to bring the recommendations forth to the CCB. Mark, I'll let you take it away from here. I thank everyone for your time and consideration today. Thank you. It's time to adjourn. Do we have a motion? Somebody like to move that we adjourn. I'll make that motion. I'll second. Excellent. Subcommittee is adjourned. Thank you everyone. Have a great day. Bye bye. Thank you.