 I'd like to call the meeting of the city's point of order. Please stand to join me in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I'd like to have the privilege to start. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Oliver. I'm Dave Hoffman, a citizen member. Janet Dolman, with city development. Mike Banderstein, Mayor and Chairman. Chad Pellichick, Planning Director. Steve Sokolowski, from the Planning Department. Marilyn Montemayor, citizen member. Ryan Seisman, Department of Public Works. With any of the items on the agenda. Seeing none, then we'll go on. Next item is approval of the minutes from the Planning Commission meeting on February 25. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on those minutes? Seeing none, all those in favor, please signify by seeing aye. Opposed? Chair votes aye. Motion passes. Next is items for discussion and possible action. Item 3.1 is a conditional use in variance applications. In variance applications. In variance applications. I think we have an echo in here. I think we have an echo in here. I think we have an echo in here. Did it do that when I went to Sunlight Talk again? Yes. That's better. We have a variance application by Sheboygan Leadership to install new electronic reader board monument sign at 1305 St. Clair Avenue. Steve. All right, thanks, Mayor. Principal Laura Studi is here from Sheboygan Leadership as well as Representative Mark Hickman from Sheboygan Leadership. What we're taking a look is the school would like to install a new electronic reader board monument sign. They're taking a look at... Sorry, we're done. We're done. They're looking at the northwest corner of their property which is the intersection of 14th and St. Clair. The monument sign proposes about 36 square feet. It'll be about six and a half feet tall. And the electronic reader board will provide opportunities to advertise activities, events to the public, make it safer for employees who can easily just change the messages from the office. It would increase the school's visibility, promote sharing of the school's virtues and may help increase enrollment and would continue to improve the look of their neighborhood. Sheboygan Leadership has been at the site since 2012 and they've made some improvements to their grounds, their facilities. They've bought in other properties in the area and created some playground space. So there's been a significant amount of improvements that they've done over the years to enhance the school. And this is the last thing that they were, or one of the newest things they would like to do is to request a variance to have the sign five feet from the property line. And there's a couple of reasons for that. That include, in the future, they would like to potentially create a bus drop-off at that section of the property. And if the sign was in the 12-foot requirement, that would impact the location of the driveways and everything wouldn't fit real well. And also, they wanna have the opportunity to really have the sign out at 14th and advertise to that traffic going north and south over there. Applicant would be removing a little bit of fencing and some trees in that area. And so the planning commission may wanna have the applicant just kind of explain how much they're removing, but staff is recommending approval of the sign as presented and the applicants are here. Thank you very much for that report. Would the applicant like to make any comments? Please step to the podium. Welcome. Hi everybody, thanks. So Steve did a fantastic job explaining what we've done so far to improve our property and what we hope to continue to do. I'm happy to answer any questions, but I think you just about covered it. It wouldn't be a very tall sign. We're hoping something that looks nice and improves the neighborhood and advertises our school as well. Okay, commissioners, any questions? Any motions? Move to approve subject to staff recommendations. Sir. Thank you for that motion in support. I have a motion on the floor. One last call for discussion. Seeing none, all those in favor of the motion please signify by seeing aye. Chair votes aye. Opposed? Motion passes. Good luck with your project. Thank you. Yep, bye bye now. Item 3.2 is a conditional use application by Chris Scott to operate Blessed Child Daycare at 1125 Michigan Avenue. Steve, have you reported on this? Yeah, Chris Scott is here with several people that are here to represent her as well as the property owner Armando Ochoa. And what we're taking a look is 1125 Michigan Avenue. Some of you might be familiar with this property. Armando had operated Dos Hermanos for many years. How many? Any idea? Any idea how long you had been operating? 10 years. So recently the grocery store had pulled out of the space and now Ms. Scott is here and she wants to operate a daycare called Blessed Child Daycare from the facility. Location is indicated that it's a good location as far as surrounded by businesses and family households as close to downtown and public transportation. And the tenant space has plenty of room for children to play, learn and grow. They would include daily learning activities for the children and care. They would engage in community service, helping others such as collecting food for the hungry and making our projects for the elderly. They would have different themes throughout the week such as animal week where children will learn about different animals, their habitats by watching movies and reading. And at the end of the week, they would review all they had learned. The space is about 2,000 square feet and the childcare center would operate for children six weeks to 12 years old. There would be interior improvements that would to the space that would include painting. They would add shelves or toys and books, tables for the different activities. In the evening, there is a second floor to this and in the evening, they would have quieter activities, movies, puzzles, different things to take to do while the neighbors were home upstairs. Outdoor activities would take place in a local park around the stat area and there would be three people operating the daycare. Typical hours would be 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. Monday through Friday and blessed child would be licensed to care for eight children. Like I said, Dos Hermanos had operated there for many years and the space has been vacant for a little bit of time and this would allow Carissa the opportunity to operate her daycare and fill that tenant space. So staff has recommended approval. Thank you for that report, Steve. Would the applicants like to make any further comments? Please step to the podium. Good, yeah, just pull the mic down a little. Thank you, welcome. Thank you. Yeah, so I have it in my house at the time and it's licensed, but it's kind of small space. So I'm looking to grow it a little bit. More room for the children, my yard space is okay. It's pretty big, but like I said, in the house it's just limited to like with furniture and stuff and then also the toys are overtaken the whole house. So I'm looking to expand it and it's a need for it in the community. So. All right, thank you. Commissioners, any questions? Go ahead, David. I'm just curious, which park are you gonna utilize for the outdoor activities? So when the license income, I'm gonna get a okay to go to the local park. I have to have a buggy big enough for the children under two. So I'll have at least four of them. So I got the four, the quad stroller. So we can go to like, we can go to the park that's the school park that's the school that just left, they locally located right there. We can go there or we can go a little further with just like walking. Yeah, I have a staff member to help me. Her name is Connie. So. Thank you. Any other discussion? Any other discussion? Holder person, Warren. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. As far as how you get your funding for the children that attend your daycare, are these going to be children that the parents are gonna all be able to afford to pay for it themselves? Or are you gonna get some assistance from the county and parents that don't have the money for the daycare? How will that work? Yes, sorry, yes. I'm already licensed through the state. So I do take the government assistance some families that can't afford it. So the government pays like a share of it. So I'm already, I already have that in place. I'm just looking to move the location, which I'm looking for the city that should we're gonna okay it. Then the licensing people will come in and continue with the state regulation stuff. Thank you. See, no other discussion. I'd entertain a motion. Just a second. Thank you for that motion and support. We have one person in the crowd who would like to speak. Please come to the microphone. Hello, Mark. I'm Kevin Hoffman. I run Hoffman's Flowerland across the street. And my only concern would be the safety of the children because ever since 2005 where they remodeled Michigan Avenue, it's a very fast street. And it's the safety of children would be my concern and parking. I mean, I don't know how many clients you have. So I would think that the safety and the parking should be an issue that somebody should discuss. Thank you for those questions, Kevin. If you'd like to respond, please step back to the podium. Yes, so I'm going to have eight siblings so that'll lessen up the parking space. Maybe about four cars here coming and going. But as far as safety, that's maintained with my license. I have to make sure all the kids are safe and secure. I watch them pretty well. I got assisted to help me. So when we go out, I make sure that we all have them together. We put them in the buggies and the ones that can walk will have them in. And where they're pretty obedient, the kids I have, I'm thankful. I'm pretty blessed, like blessed child. But yeah, they're pretty obedient and usually they follow the rules, even the little ones when you train them up. So. Thank you very much, Marilyn Montemare. Thank you. If it's eight children that should work out nicely in that large space with three adults, that seems like a good ratio. I thought so too. Okay, Alderperson Bourne. Thank you, Mayor. Regarding the parking, maybe staff could help me. On that side of Michigan Avenue, the 1,100 block of somebody parks out there is at one hour or two hour parking. And then my second question would be, if it would help her with her business, would it be possible to limit a couple stalls to 15 or 20 minutes or loading zone, something like that to keep the traffic flow going and accommodate her facility? Once that one, I'll. I think that's a good suggestion, Alderman Bourne. I think what we're gonna do is wait to see if that becomes a concern. And then we can address that later on and give her some additional 15 minute parking if it's needed. But let's see how it works for a drop off and pick up first and then we can address it. I believe it's metered. Is it metered at that location? Then it's probably our parking. Our parking, thank you. Is it Kevin? Steve? I don't know. And then from a technical standpoint, in that central commercial zone, the parking requirements are waived. So just like all the other business, I believe Hoffman might have some extra parking, but a lot of the taverns, restaurants, things like that around there don't have any parking and it's all street parking. So this fits the rest of the uses along that area. Okay. Thank you for that discussion. Do we have a motion on the floor? I think so, yes. Okay, we have a motion on the floor. All those in favor of the motion, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Chair votes aye. Motion passes. Good luck with your project. Next item is item 3.3, which is conditional use and variance application by the Humane Society of Sheboygan County to utilize space in a multi-tenant facility for kenneling in indoor dog park at 3115 North 21st Street. Steve? All right. Steve Schmid is here representing the Humane Society and hello. What we're taking a look is the former Nemshoff facility, which was purchased by the Humane Society about 2016. At that time, they had come in and received approval from the plan commission for a multi-tenant facility and some of the other tenants in that facility right now include e-power, Sheboygan County Food Bank and Making Spirits Bright. There's a large tenant space that's still available in that space. So the Humane Society would like the opportunity to move in there and it would be used for 11 dog kennels of various sizes and 16 cat kennels in a separate room. The kennels will be used primarily for dogs being transferred in from high-kill shelters. The dogs need to be quarantined before they can be brought into the main shelter to help reduce the spread of contagious diseases. And the facility will be used as a ringworm quarantine area for both dogs and cats. The kennels are also used by the County Sheriff's Department and local police for criminal investigation seizures, which includes species varying from dogs, cats, birds, goats, pigs. The site was selected because it's important to have that separate quarantine area and the space is available. There would also be eight outdoor kennels on the north side of the building, presently in the parking lot that sits on the north side of the building. Those kennels would be approximately six feet wide by 14 feet long and closed by a six-foot cyclone fence with a fabric screening. And the outdoor kennels would only be used during the business hours from nine a.m. to six p.m. The kennels will move approximately about seven parking spaces on the north side of the site. The Humane Society is also proposing to create an indoor dog park in the facility. It's large enough that there's space available that it could be offered to the public for people during an inclement weather or just weather in general to use it as the dog park facility. The citizens would be required to provide proof of current rabies vaccination and then they would be able to pay a membership fee and proof of the current rabies vaccination directly at the Sheboygan County Humane Society facility during regular business hours. They would receive an individual code and it would be kind of like a gym, like anytime fitness or what have you that you would have the opportunity to utilize the dog park 24 hours a day and there would be security cameras out there at the site. Other than that, again, there's gonna be a few kennels on the north side of the site, but as many recall when we approved the Sheboygan County Humane Society, their other building, there's a significant amount of parking that is gonna be constructed on that site so they're kind of sharing parking in that area as well, but other than that, staff was recommending approval of the request and the applicants are here. Thank you very much, Steve. Would you like to add anything to that report? You did a very good job, Stephen. Your dog is at the shelter for tomorrow pickups. All right. Sounds good. No, I think you've answered everything. It's just we have about a 12,000 square foot section and then what used to be the paint shed area for Nemshoff is utilizing, is being used for our kennel area because we do get a number of dogs. If you, the kinship kennel case where we were 36 dogs that came in, we had another one with the county that we had over 100 animals that came in and then we have to be able to disperse that. We're gonna be building a new shelter but we still are looking for this to be able to take care of that and then also for our indoor walking because you see people, our volunteers that come in and walk dogs during the winter months, it gets pretty treacherous out there and so we wanted to have an indoor type of walking area for that. So, any other questions? Committee, any other questions? Oh, thank you very much, Steve. I guess at this time we'd entertain a motion. Okay, we have a motion. Is there a second? I'll second. Very good. Under discussion then. Any other discussion? With that, all those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Chair votes aye. Opposed? Motion passes. Good luck with the project. Item 3.4 is a conditional use and variance application by Ron Becker to construct a new multi-storage building at the existing transpose mini storage facility located at 3515 Superior Avenue. Steve. All right. This might look familiar to some already from the standpoint that this is off of Superior Avenue. The Plan Commission had looked at this in July of 18. The previous conditional use permit had expired so the backers are back here looking to get what was approved previously. Basically, there's four buildings on the site right now. They're looking to add a fifth one on the north side of the site that would include about 14 mini storage units. So there would be a total of 164 units on the site. So if you want, I can get into more detail if anyone has any specific questions, but this is basically the same request that was made in the past. And I could answer any questions or address anything that the Plan Commission might want me to touch on in the applicants are here. What staff is recommending approval again? Thank you. Mr. Becker or Mr. Schmidt, anything you'd like to add? Okay. Next question. All right. Commissioners, any questions? All are person born. I'll make a motion to approve subject to conditions. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. One last call for any other discussion. Seeing none, all those in favor, please signify by seeing aye. Aye. Chair votes aye. Opposed? Motion passes. Okay, then we'll go on to item 3.5, which is a conditional use and variance application by Ron Becker to construct a new mini storage buildings at the existing transport mini storage facility located at 1210 South 10th Street. Steve. All right. Thanks, Mayor. So John and Ron Becker are here. Steve Pesky from Distinctive Design, Brian Wells from Miller Engineers and Steve Schmidt from Schmidt Construction for this particular project. And there are some neighbors here for this project as well. So what we're taking a look is at 1210 South 10th Street. Becker's presently own the property at 1209 South 11th Street and that's the present office facility for transport. And that is the building that you see kind of on the left side of the screen that's kind of whiteed out. That facility presently has 69 units inside of it. The 1210 property, which is the property that you see with the site plan on the east side, closest to 10th Street, is currently used as a facility that is used by ABF Trucking as a distribution center. The idea is to demolish what's there and then to construct a total of 93 units, kind of in a U-shape that would go along Kentucky, east and west and then north and south along 10th Street and then east to west against the alley. So there's a total of 93 units. Building one is the U-shaped one along the street frontages that buildings 20 feet wide by 210 feet and 230 feet. You can see that the building along Kentucky is a little bit longer than along the south side. So 210 and 230, the units would vary from 100 square feet, 200 square feet and at the corners, two of them that are 400 square feet. The section along 10th Street is approximately 10 by 100 feet long. Building two is the interior building and that building is approximately 45 feet wide by 170 feet deep and that includes 41 storage units. The facility would be open 24 hours, seven days a week and access to the site will be provided from Kentucky Avenue and is controlled by an electronically operated access gate. So there wouldn't really be any car access from any the alley or 10th Street. It would all be coming from the Kentucky Avenue improvement that you see on the site plan. A couple of comments just with regards to staff, staff biggest concern has to do with the design of the proposed mini storage buildings. The applicant is requesting some fairly significant variances, the building along Kentucky Avenue is proposed to be seven feet from the north property line. The building along 10th Street is proposed to be four feet from the property line and the building along the alley is proposed to be 3.5 feet. So the minimum setback in the urban industrial zone is 25 feet. So there's some fairly significant setbacks that are being looked at. The applicant will probably speak to some of the surrounding neighborhood and setback issues with the residents and things like that that might be a little bit closer and the reason why they're proposing the setbacks as proposed. Plan commission is aware that the city has been interested in improving the overall look and feel of the neighborhoods in this area. Basically A Street to 14th Street from about Indiana Avenue to Georgia Avenue. The design of this mini storage facility will impact the overall feel and look of the neighborhood for decades to come. So it's imperative that if Transbull wants to obtain the variances, the project as presented, the facility will be well designed because Transbull building is going to be seen every day from the neighboring properties. If well done people invest in the neighborhood as we hope and if the building is average, you probably will get average investment around the facility. With regards to building setbacks, the building is going to be very close to the lot lines, which leaves a limited opportunity for the installation of green space and landscaping. Oftentimes the plan commission is approving projects with the understanding that a landscape plan will be reviewed and approved by staff. However, in this case, the applicants requesting significant variances from the landscape requirements and the plan commission may want to see exactly what the applicant is proposing in order to exactly understand what variances are being proposed. Staff has informed the applicant of the concerns in design and landscaping concerns and the project that you have before you is a result of some of those discussions. There will not be any direct access onto the 1210 property. The property will be accessed through the 1209, the existing site. So the applicants will have to create an access agreement between the two properties prior to any type of building permit issuance. Applicant is also proposing to create a new common property line. So they're kind of amending kind of the area along the driveway to the north. So that has to match up and they'll have to submit that. Plan commission may want to ask why they're not combining this all into one lot and they can talk about that. There are several variances. Like I said, seven feet to the north property line, Kentucky four feet to the east property line, 10th street and three feet to the alley. Requesting to create a parcel without any street access, but that's obviously that access easement would take care of that. Requesting a paving setback of zero feet to the west property line. That's where the shared driveway is and the easement would take care of that. And then variance to the locational landscaping requirements. So one of the things that the zoning ordinance does state with any type of mini storage facility is a facility shall be designed so as to minimize adverse visual impacts on the nearby developments. Color exterior materials and orientation of the proposed buildings and structures shall complement the surrounding development. So the big question that I think the plan commission needs to address is transpose requesting significant building and landscape variances. And the question that needs to be addressed is if transpose is proposing a development that is too dense for the site. The architectural review board did approve the drawings that you see. There are some modifications that will need to be addressed. However, one of the things that staff does have some concerns with is the setbacks. And whether or not the variance should be granted for the setbacks as requested or if the plan commission should consider 10 feet setbacks around the perimeter of the site. It's a very dense development. The applicant is proposing what they're after. I don't see any issues with asking for that. But at the same time, as a commission, we have to take a look at this and make sure that the building, the site are constructed in such a way that it's minimizing the impact of the others, allowing them to function, but also providing a decent design for that neighborhood. So the staff does have concerns with the setbacks. And that's something that can be discussed, but whether or not it needs to be 10 or more around here, but there should be something that allows for some landscaping to get in there besides the building design. So I can answer any questions. The applicants are here and there's neighbors here. Thank you, Steve. Mr. Becker, Mr. Schmidt, anyone like to speak to these issues? Could we start first of all with the one parcel? Why we're not combining the parcel or is that something that's in your plans? It's for estate purposes, estate planning. You'd rather keep it two parcels? Yes. Okay, very good. And that works with that easement and things like that. Okay. And then the other information was on the setbacks and the landscaping. Take it, Steve. Thank you. So regarding the setbacks, again, I know density as Steve stated is bringing up question of amount versus site limitations on this. We are conforming as Steve had relayed to similar entities in the neighborhood. The alleyway, we're following the same setback as what the current building or existing building is. We're transpose is located right now. And along the street side. Can you go back one more panel? Neither way. That's good, that one. Very good. Please proceed. Okay. In regards to Kentucky Avenue, we are improving some of the curb appeal in the amount of green space just due to the amount of curb cut that's currently residing where ABF trucking is utilizing a very large amount or large curb cut to get in and out of that building. So adding more grass in green space between the sidewalk and the street side as well. With the density, I mean, there is a point of return that they need to have X amount of units to make this a viable project within the space. As far as the landscaping requirements, I know Janet, you've been talking with our landscape architects. I believe you met with them yesterday in regards to that, so. Landscape plan at 1244 over lunch hour, so 12 something, I think it was 44, but yes. So we are in the works with that as well of trying to find a good solution to fit the space and the requirements that we have. Exterior from the architectural review board stands, we had met with them last night. There were some comments that we reviewed with them. And I know Steve, I just actually, or Jason had sent you an email here just shortly ago with some of the updated comments, but I can, if you mind if I just pass this around? No, it'll be fine. Sounds good. I'll just pass it this way, if you guys want to take a look. The changes are along the North facade or Kentucky Avenue where we've elevated a center element along the long facade and brought in another brick panel element into it from some of the recommendations of the architectural review board, specifically Dick Lindy is the one who had that thought or comment to it. Thank you for that information. Go ahead. Also one other element along the alleyway side on that drawing, you will also see that incorporating other differences of panel color to break up the long elevation that I believe every 20 feet or so that we would have a five, four or five foot section of darker metal panel just to break up that long facade. You're right commissioners, any questions? First of all, Janet, did you have anything else? And Ryan? Okay. That I am a little concerned about how squished plants are or lack of a better word. And also trying to plant trees within that thing is four and a half feet there and along with all the shrubbery along the building. I'm not sure that's gonna work. And if the plantings do happen to die off, you'll be getting a lot of from me stating that they need to be replanted and you do need to make sure you meet all of your landscape point requirements. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You had same landscape that our Wisconsin Avenue location where we ran all those shrubs that were here on the other side. Yeah. We ran spray blurs for months where we made sure they kept up and then we all replaced any greenery as they could work by all of our locations. So we're working on hearings. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. But I just wanted to let you know that I did express that concern about that that does need to be looked at as well. So, and I know at your Wisconsin site you did have a little bit more space to meet your landscape points versus having them all jammed around the building. So. Yeah, a little bit more space, but the landscape area around the building that we put up there is about the same width as far as the actual shrubbery greenery around that building. And the other differences is that we had a deeper setback from the problem line that building from the landscape area is about the same width. So. Okay. I just wanted to let you know. Okay, Ryan. My question is, my feeling is we need to decrease the size of these variances. Get it in the way it is now. It's just, it's not gonna work, which is all I think is why we haven't seen plan yet. So I see you got one driveway, 30 feet wide, and you're the one 25, why is that? You're asking about the driveway or their access off the alleyway? Right there, yeah. One's 30 and the other one's 25. We have deeper units there. Okay. And the other units are 20 units. Right. So you could take those 25s, narrow those down to 20 possibly. I was thinking out loud that would gain you some of your more space on your variance. Therefore you can narrow up the driveway then to 25 feet. Because this is so tight with these variances. I don't know how you're gonna meet the landscape requirements and actually have it look nice. You haven't submitted anything yet. Sir, could you step up to the microphone when you want to speak? Thank you. Yeah, well, I know you just received the landscape plan today. So I guess it's hard to say, obviously, we don't know if the landscape requirements have been met. The reason for the 25 feet is because with our 30 feet on the one drive side is because customers who are gonna be renting a 25 foot deep storage unit, generally it's going to be maybe a trailer or something like that. So those units in order for the customer to be able to maneuver to get a trailer into the doors and things like that without causing any possible damage or anything, we gave them that extra five foot width. I believe that once the landscape plan is all finished and completed, I believe that with the space that's there, being very similar to what we had, like I said, our Wisconsin ever location that the requirement would be able to be met. Not to mention the fact that adding all of that curb space and planting more trees on the Kentucky Avenue side in between the sidewalk and the curb will be also adding, I think it's about 100 feet of curb from that the ABF is currently using for backing trailers in and out of. We're also gonna be adding all that green space as well. So that'll definitely be an addition and an improvement for the whole area. So. Even with that, I think it's gonna be tough the way it is. This is a possibility to make those 25 foot units 20, therefore the driveway goes down to 25 and you just gained 10 feet. Well, it's possible, but it's also less revenue. So as far as we're looking at the cost of the project, the cost of demolition, all of that, we're obviously looking at getting enough revenue so that we can make the project viable as well. So that extra with a 10 by 20 unit is a $94 rate with a 10 by 25 unit, we're looking at a $120 rate. So when we take away that many 10 by 25 units, that would take a lot of the financials out of the equation. But it'd make it a little bit more tough, a little more difficult to be viable as far as financially is concerned. You know, landscaping is always important for any project, but here it specifically is, you got houses on the north side, across the street on the north side and we owe it to them to make sure this thing is buffered and looks nice. Oh, absolutely. So. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, go ahead. I know that the, for your point system that you don't include from the sidewalk to the curb. Right. But we're proposing to line that with trees along there. Oh, required then. Okay, good. Also on 10th Street then too? Because of the high power lines? Yeah. Okay. So I mean, we are buffering that to the north and two of that, so. And then they won't have truck lights flashing their homes every morning. So for another point, as far as the improvements, not only will the neighbors be receiving an extra hundred feet of curb for parking because on street parking is very, very tight over there as it is. There'll be another hundred feet, not only that, the current tenants that are in that building now, all the truck drivers, the three other tenants that we have in that building, they will no longer be parking there as well. So customers are gonna gain parking. Aside from that, we're also gonna be taking away all of that truck traffic, all the dust, the painted block building that's there currently now and replacing it with what we believe is a very, very nice looking building. So as far as aesthetics and as far as improving the neighborhood, I think that just a few of those points alone, show the improvement that the project would do all over all. Okay, under further discussion, Ryan. Yeah, also with stormwater, it's something as simple as downspouts for all these big ruffs. Where do you plan on discharging this? I guess I haven't seen any of those details. I know a lot of times the stuff gets approved without this, but in those situations, I think we need to see it ahead of time. The U shaped building are on the outside, so building one, the stormwater is actually gonna be rolling off of the outside of the building. The landscape plan will have a white stone underneath the edge of the roof that'll be catching the water. We'll basically be using that as irrigation for the trees and the plants and things that we have there. And then the center building, the stormwater is going to be going into a gutter, which will be going underground and dispersing into the storm sewers that are being placed inside, as you see on the east side of the inside of the property and connecting to the city storm sewer line. So that's where the stormwater's gonna be draining off to. Again, I feel more comfortable seeing that on paper someplace, because I just... Yeah, it's on the plan. Yeah, the gutters are on the plan in the center building there. It's all right there. Okay, any further discussion, Dave Hoffman? I had my question answered. Thank you. Chad? So I just wanna mention to the commission, as you're thinking about whether there should be a 10 foot setback or what they've proposed, a very similar situation we're dealing with today is to save a lot up on North A Street. That building, whenever it was constructed, was constructed roughly three feet behind the back of Kerban Zimbal and five to seven feet, if you will, on the A Street side. And you know how intrusive that building is when you drive down Zimbal, the street to the south and A Street, the street to the west. We've just hired an architect to take a look at how to change that facade a little bit to try to make it work into the neighborhood. So I think there are some concerns from staff in the fact of looking at this building, being very close to the back of sidewalk. I understand they're trying to do landscaping and those types of things as well, but property owners across the way are gonna be looking at this improvement. And the save a lot is a good comparison to what that size building looks like on right behind the back of the sidewalk. So just as a reference point, I just wanted to share that with you as you're deliberating on what we should do with this. Thank you. With that, I entertain any other questions or motions? No, they aren't. Steve? So I think the big thing with something like this is when we're taking a look at it, is what that setback should be. I mean, if I'm the applicant, I'm trying to jam as much stuff as I can in here from a profit perspective, I get that. But at the same time as a commission, we also have to look at it functioning from a developer perspective, yet also fitting in well with the neighborhood. And from a staff perspective, I don't believe that the proposal you have before you does that. I think it jams in and gets what the applicant wants, but I don't know that it necessarily provides additional green space or things like that. There's no reason, and we've heard that there's an ability to design things, to meet, say, for example, a 10 foot setback. It's just that they get more profit from the other way of doing it. So that's a decision that the plan commission has to be aware of is, yes, we understand that, yet at the same time, this building is gonna be here for 50, 60 years, and how does that impact the rest of the area? So I think from my perspective, I don't see why there couldn't be, any time a person's asking for variances, the plan commission is always getting better design, better landscaping, better something. And here, I just see, yeah, we're meeting the points, we're putting it in, we're jamming it in in the space we have. I don't see anything that says, hey, based on you guys giving us this, we're doing this extra right here. So yes, there's been some improvements to the building. Those there last night were required by the architecture review board, and they said those were the minimum that they would accept. So again, my feel on this is, anytime we're asking for as significant variances, there's usually a lot more from a design perspective, and I don't see that here. And I think it should be done, and whether or not that 10 foot gives us additional buffer to add landscaping, maybe that's it, but there's things that can be done to improve the site. Thank you, Steve. I guess I'd entertain a motion. Jim. Thank you, Mayor. You mentioned that by going to the larger setbacks that you would be losing revenue with the market right now for storage units, would it be possible for you to raise your rates somewhat at that location and still remain competitive with your competitors? Actually, we've already raised rates, quite honestly, twice this year. And I'll admit the market is very good, which is why we're doing this. In fact, in the city, one of the reasons why we're doing this and this is obvious, the location that we are, is that right now 45% of our current customers pick location is the reason why they rent with us. And 78.23% of all of our customers come from the 53081 area code. So location is the big part with all the apartments and things going on. But we've already addressed that. We have already raised rates and storage obviously is still doing very well, but obviously as far as raising rates go, I don't think it would be a good idea to do that again. Marketing standpoint. Thank you. In a few months, you're gonna have a slug of more prospects when that new apartment building goes up down there off of Indiana Avenue in the old industrial area. But the way it stands right now, if you did some math earlier, if you would go to the bigger setback and the smaller units, how much revenue would you be losing a month the way you have it priced right now? Quite honestly, do not have that. Well, you know, you also had approved the 14th and Indiana Avenue facility or not Indiana Avenue, Kentucky. And that was the taller structure downtown. They were kind of, they had to paint the building. They had to put some landscaping in probably about a 12-foot buffer area up against the building. It was existing. Okay, so it was existing, yeah. So I mean, but. It's hard to compare this new construction to existing. Okay, I don't want you to just listen to your, you still need to open up further. Yep. So I'll let you do that. Thank you. And any neighbors who'd like to step up to the podium and please just state your name and your address. Hi, I'm Victoria Almgren. I live at 1012 Alabama Avenue. So I'm on the other side of the alley from this. And I want you guys to succeed. It's gonna be better than the trucking company. But don't forget, you know, we're still there. Yeah, it's the back of our yard. But if you were as close to the alley as your yellow building is and it's the entire alley, it's gonna, I'm gonna be claustrophobic. It just makes me nervous looking at it right now. It's just kind of like walls. I mean, with the trucking company, the building is back a little bit. There's a little hill with a tree. And it's like, it's gonna be wall and nothing. So if there's any way, I know what you're proposing for the Kentucky side is good. Yeah, there's gonna be curb and there's gonna be good stuff on that side. You know, there's a little bit of grass on 10th Street, but then it's like the alley is just junk. So don't forget about us. I might be the only one on that side of the alley that cares, but I do care. This is the changed design. Okay. This is the new alley design. We're gonna break that up with the different panels. So it's not so much of a next-gen chain for that. So, but I mean, you know, and is there gonna be any kind of drainage on the alley side or is our alley just gonna be a river? Because like now when it rains, the yellow building, it's like, you know, okay, and that comes down and then it gets to the gravel and kind of soaps over. So if there's no gravel there, is it just going to be, you know, the alley river? Well, it runs to the stream and to the drainage. Oh, but she's talking about the stuff on the alley side. Yeah, it'll run down the alleys and the streets. Yeah, actually the same way. Where it makes the lake already. And so now the lake will expand. So just don't, I know people don't tend to care about alleys, but you know, it's like, I'm right on the other side of it. Just, it seems like a whole lot of hard stuff. And you know, and no consideration of the alley. So kind of think about that. I don't know if there's any other, I'm not a construction person, so I don't know like drainage wise. If there's anything, you know, are we gonna end up on the west end of the alley where the yellow building is tends to be pretty thick ice. So I try to avoid that side coming on 10th street. Well, now if it's gonna all be like that. Well, the ice won't be an issue. The reason that ice is on the other end is because Ross loved to watch the sun in the winter. And when it spills out there. So on the other side, on this end of the alley, we would not have an issue with the ice build up because the sun would actually hit that end. Ross loved to see why we have that big pile of ice on the other side. And I do snowblow back there with a snowblower to try to break that down as much as I can. So, yeah, I do that care. Anyway, I hope you guys can work something out. I think, you know, maybe not quite there yet, but. Thank you very much. Is anyone else? I guess. Just your name and your address. Sure. Leon Jump, I own a property at 1020, Alabama. Thank you. My question is whether or not there's gonna be access to this from the alley. No access from this to the alley. Okay. Right. But there's no automobile traffic going in and out of the facility from the alley. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Jump. Anyone else? Kate commissioners, Marilyn. Thank you. It's a giant ask that you're requesting. To the north, you want seven feet when the requirement is 25. To the east, you're requesting, you want four feet when the requirement is 25. To the south, you're asking for three feet when the requirement is 25. And on the west, you're requesting zero when the requirement is five feet. Those are giant asks. We need to reach some sort of other agreement, I think. Anything else, Marilyn? That's all, thank you. Okay. I was gonna make a motion. Ryan? I was gonna make a motion, so. Please go ahead. I'm gonna make a motion to hold this because I think there's several items we need to work out. I'd recommend the designer, developer, set up a meeting with city staff to iron out the landscaping plan, a very detailed landscaping plan, detailed stormwater plan, and also we're gonna have to decrease these variances. That's this four feet and seven feet and three and a half isn't gonna cut it. So finalize your design and set up a meeting with city staff and hopefully talk about it in two weeks. Okay, we have a motion on the floor. Is there any further discussion on the motion? Seeing none. All those in favor of holding this document, please signify by seeing aye. Aye. Chair votes aye. Opposed? Motion passes. All right. The next item on the agenda is item 3.6, our own number 165 of 1920 by the director of planning and development, submitting the final downtown districts activation and placemaking plan for the downtown, uptown, Indiana Avenue and Michigan Avenue districts. You wanna do that from here or over there? Okay. So thank you. This plan is attached in your document and hopefully some of you have had a chance to look at this but this is a new plan that's basically kind of going off of the successes of the Harbor Center master plan that was approved in partnership with the downtown business improvement district in the days that Mr. Huffman was the bid manager. So that plan when we looked at the plan, about 90% of the items in the plan were completed. So the idea of moving forward and looking at additional activation in these corridors identified downtown, uptown, Indiana and Michigan came to fruition. So this is really building on the placemaking that you see the public art that's happened and then studying these areas and giving us some direction on what these corridors could look like, the economics of the corridors, what some of the improvements could be and basically expanding on what we've done to date. So I'm not gonna go through the plan. The plan is in your packets attached to the application but we're looking for approval recommendation back to the council to accept the plan and it'll allow us to then allocate probably block grant funds to it and other granting sources that come up over the course of the next five years. Thank you very much, Chad. Anybody have any discussion or questions on this? Alderperson Bourne? Thank you, Mayor. Chad, I did have the opportunity to review this quite thoroughly and I think it's a very good plan. So I'm gonna support it. Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, David? Yeah, I concur with Jim. Just really struck me because I happen to be on Facebook earlier today and you constantly see people in the black pig alley, I'll call it taking pictures there. It's just a cool space and everything else that has happened has really revitalized the downtown. So great job, thanks, Chad. Would you like to make a motion, Mr. Hoffman? Move to approve. Second. Thank you for that motion to approve and recommend acceptance by the city council. That motion's on the floor. Any other discussion? Marilyn? Downtown looks wonderful. You've done a great job. And remember, the naysayers do talk a lot and the people who love it are just happy. Thank you for that comment. So true. Okay, with no other comments, all those in favor of the motion, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Chair votes aye. Opposed? Motion passes. And our next meeting is scheduled for March 24th. With that, I'd accept the motion to adjourn. Make a motion to adjourn. Second. Thank you for that motion in support. All those in favor of adjournment, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Chair votes aye. Opposed? We stand adjourned. Thank you for your time tonight.