 I'd like to call this meeting of the City of Montpelier Development Review Board to order. It is Monday, December 7th at 7.01. My name is Kate McCarthy and I'm the chair of the DRB. And next I'd like to introduce the other board members as well as staff who support us. So I will just go around, you can unmute yourself and say hello. So other board members are Kevin O'Connell. Hello. Hello. Kevin. Roger Kranz. Hi. Hey, Roger. Rob Goodwin. Hello. Hey there, Rob. Joe Tiernan. Hello. Hi, Joe. Good to see you. And then Meredith Crandall is our zoning administrator and staffs this board. Hello, Meredith. We are being recorded tonight by Orca Media, as you can see on the Zoom screen. And we will introduce and swear in people who are here to be heard on their applications coming right up. Oh, it looks like we are in the process of being joined by Abby White. Hi, Abby. We just did introductions. If you'd like to say hello. Let's do an unmute and make sure your sound works. Hey, all. Abby. It works. Good to see you. Thanks for being here. Good to see you. Great. All right. So what I'll do next is I will turn it over to Meredith who is going to review our procedures in light of our, um, the state in which we find ourselves. So if you can summarize that, Meredith would love to know. Yeah, I wish I could. Um, all right. So give me one second. I'm going to share screen. I'm going to try something a little different. I'm going to try and do an actual slide show and tell me if this works, people. Can you see that? Yes, we can. Awesome. Trying to be a little fancy and also a little simpler. That is so big. I don't know if people are going to be able to see that on Orca or not. Um, let me, there we go. All right. So for those of you in this meeting via Orca media, I'm going to let you know that you can participate in the DRB hearing via the zoom platform through either video or telephone access options. And so here is your zoom meeting link or you can call in. And there's meeting ID and password. If you have problems accessing the meeting, please email me. Here's my email address. And I'll leave this up for a little bit and then I'll scroll to the next screen in a minute. So that anybody who's watching via Orca that may want to, they can download the complete meeting packet of your link to that on the next page. I'll leave this up for a few minutes. Um, anybody. Also, if you're on the meeting and you're having difficulties while accessing different video conferencing features, please message me through the chat function and zoom. Thanks Kate said this meeting is being recorded as well as being streamed live via media. Turning your video on is optional for anybody who's on here via zoom. All public testimony will be taken verbally. And the chat function that I just mentioned should only be used for troubleshooting or logistics questions. The chat will be added to the public record it's used. Please keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking to reduce background noise. Instapating by phone star six will allow you to mute or unmute if your phone itself doesn't have a mute button. If you're interested in speaking on a particular matter and it's not clear that you're an applicant or something, or didn't announce it when you came on then raise your hand either physically or by using the raise hand button on your toolbar. And for those on the phone you can press star nine to raise your hand. I think tonight we just have applicants and people assisting applicants so far. Um, so I think we have some people here who may not have been here before for permits so just want to make clear that if you're being asked to speak or if you have a question, and something else is going on please wait till the chairs recognized you to actually speak. And then you can unmute your microphone confirmed you can be heard. And if you're talking on a matter that you're not the applicant in you can need to provide your full name and address for the record. So, also note that in the event the public is unable to access this meeting, it will be continued to a time and place certain. I have my email open so I'll be keeping an eye on things. And if you're having connectivity issues try turning off your video or closing other applications on your phone or computer. I will see in the document screen share. As I noted earlier all these files are uploaded to the agendas and minutes page for this meeting. Oops, sorry for exchange page. There we go. That's where you can download the meeting packet. Please note that all votes taken during this meeting will be done by roll call vote. And I will hand this meeting back over to the chair. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Nice summary. Thank you for those slides. It's helpful to have that visual. And I hope it helped out folks at home. Let us know what you think. All right. The next item on our agenda is the approval of agenda. So do I have a motion to approve the agenda. Or any modifications to the agenda. I move to accept the agenda for this evening's meeting. So I'm going to move to the agenda. And I'm going to move to the agenda for this evening's meeting. So I'm going to move to the agenda for this evening. I'm going to move to the agenda for this evening. And this is how we do votes in, in this setting. So, Rob. Yes. Kevin. Yes. Roger. Yes. Joe. Yes. Abby. Yes. And I also vote, yes, we have approved our agenda. The next item on the agenda is comments from the chair. And I do not have any comments today. So we will move on to item six, which is to approve the agenda for this evening's meeting. And the people who are eligible to vote on that are myself, Kevin, Joe, Roger, and Abby. So are there any. Changes to the meeting minutes from our last meeting. Okay. Hearing none. I'll take a motion to approve those minutes. I moved. Motion by Abby. Second. Second from Joe. All right. We'll call the roll, Rob. Oh, you're not on the list. Sorry. Kevin. Yes. Okay. Roger. Yes. Joe. Yes. Abby. Yes. And I also vote yes. That was just to make sure you're listening, Rob, which I'm not surprised to know that you are listening. Thank you very much. All right. So that, those are our openers. And now we are going to turn to the applications before us. We have two applications tonight. One application that we will hear is regarding one Hopkins street, which is a review of a proposal for regrading of a steep slope in a single family homes yard. So what I'm going to start by doing is swearing in our witnesses. And that's the applicant and anyone else who is here to be heard on this. If anyone thinks they might want to testify on this application, they can also be sworn in and to show on video. If, if, if involved. So. So let's see. Great. Hello. So. I can hear you. John Grenier and I are both here. Okay. Great. So anyone who's going to testify, have you raised your right hand? Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give on this matter is the truth, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth of the truth under the pains and penalties of perjury. Yes. Yes. Okay. Very good nodding and thinking. Okay. Wonderful. So what I'll do is start with having Meredith give a brief overview of the project and then we'll turn to the applicant. And, and here from Eric Rajendra on the project very briefly, then we'll walk through the staff report. So Meredith. Okay. So this application at one Hopkins street is really for modifying slopes to make a yard less steep in some places to remove a retaining wall that really isn't, doesn't seem to really be doing what it's supposed to be doing anyway. The way I'm looking at this. And make that into more of a gentler slope actually, even though the slopes there are still going to be pretty steep. And this is before the DRB because of the slopes involved. I, if you go into the staff report that starts on page six of the meeting packet, there's a little bit of a question about what's happening with the materials for from the walls that are being removed. And then really the rest of the, the questions or issues that I think that the DRB is going to want to focus on are the steep slopes criteria. There's, there's no big, you know, new structures or anything involved here, but there is work being done on steep slopes. Very good. Thanks, Meredith. And before I turn it over to the applicant, I will mention that there will be an opportunity as well for anyone who is, is a neighbor or interested party to, to ask questions or speak, but we're going to start by going through the project overviews and walking through the staff report because that can often answer a lot of questions. So if there is something that comes up, we're small enough group tonight that people who are, are here can kind of raise their hands. So with that, without further ado, I will turn it over to Eric Rajendra. Thanks, Kate. Can you all hear me? Yes. Okay. I think Meredith has summarized it very well. I read through the whole package and it's all quite clear there. And I think the comments made by Don and his, and your engineering firm are also addressing a lot of the questions that were raised from the beginning. From my standpoint, I think this is a historical little house with a small little plot of land and the landscape was never touched since 1903. And as a result, it's just wherever they dug a hole to make a cellar, they took the earth and put it on one side and then, you know, nature went on and then the holes here and holes there. So the whole surrounding of the house was sort of patched up and, and it's, it's quite unusable to put it mildly. So I think the effort of this project was to try and bring some level of beauty and still keeping with the historical look. It is a, it is a cottage. I call it Hopkins cottage. It's dying a certain style and we're surrounded by the state on two sides and the city on two sides. And ultimately the ultimate look, which I discussed with Meredith as well, and we've done, we worked on the project planning on the, on the slopes. It's ultimately to keep in touch with the look of the place. It's not to create some rather suburban looking landscape. So it's a more cottagey. It's more a stonework here, a stonework there, but still all quite modest. There's nothing lavish, no big cupola is going to go there. No big structure is going to go, go here. No big bird cage that's 500 feet tall. It's all very simple. And in terms of the, the parking, we only have one car. So we didn't need a double car and we thought that it just looked very stony and very as faulty. So we reduced it and are going to put in a smaller cobble, granted cobble driveway for one car, which will have more greenery. And as a result, it will be much more, much more green. And the only feature that I would, I kind of proud of in terms of the design itself is what we're calling the granite pedestal, which is literally a very low structure of about eight inches, eight and a half inches above the earth. And that sort of frames the upper part of the, of the house. So it sort of puts it on a, a bit of a, literally a pedestal for the house. Cause right now the house is sort of just disappears into landscape that just slopes away and falls off. And there's go for holes and ditches and pits and so forth. So that is kind of the highlights and the staircase going up, I think it will be quite beautiful. So when people come right now, they have to crawl literally up a steep winding stone pieces of stone that are just put there that are all cracked and broken. And the staircase would give it some level of formality, but still keeping in touch with the cottage look of the house. So when you walk up there, there'll be these two corner, two little pillars at the top and then you walk in and then you go into the house. So that is pretty much the highlights of the stonework and everything else is just keeping with what there is now. No new spaces being created, no new outside of this cute little shed, which my partner and I want to do, which will be keeping with the style of the house itself. So shingles and actual stones for the foundation and a nice little small copper roof, a tiny little thing to put my hand more and a couple of machines and nothing, nothing that I'm going to drive a car in or anything of the sort is just a little shed. And that is it for the structure. And other than that, I think Meredith has done a great job in laying what we want to do. And I tried on that one page to put down all the tasks involved. So I know that Don can add to whatever questions you have, but that's all I can say. I'm quite proud of it. I think it's been a labor of love for three years. This has not been something that we sort of woke up one day and said, Oh, let's go, you know, do it. It's been three years of looking at it, thinking, walking around just living in the land itself. And so I think I'm quite proud about it. Great. Well, thanks for sharing with us. Thanks for that overview to compliment the staff report and the application materials. Appreciate it. So what we'll do now is with that as our background, we will turn to the staff report. And what we're going to be looking at in the staff report as you probably saw, we have a set of general standards to examine. That's where the steep slopes provision is, which as Meredith said, is the main focus of this application. And then we have a, we'll take a brief, brief look at the fences and walls standards. Those are the special use standards section of our bylaw. So the way that I usually do this is, I go fairly briefly through the things that are met or not relevant, leaving questions for staff and an opportunity to, for the applicant to add things if necessary, but we'll really just try and focus on the things in question, which happened to be read. So. Starting with the use standards. This is a, this is a permitted use. This is single family home in the, in the urban core. And the dimensional standards and requirements related to accessory structures are also met. This, there's a zero, zero foot setback being the urban core density. There's a hundred percent coverage allowed. And staff's assessment is that all of these are, are met. Do, do DRB members have any questions about. Those sections. Okay. Rolling right along. And the next slide. And section 3,000 and four is regarding demolition. And we just need, we need to confirm that demolition will be completed within 60 days and materials will be removed from the site and could, could you confirm for us. That. The wooden debris from the old retaining wall is going to be removed within 60 days. Absolutely. I would not want to see that for 60 days. So I would want them removed within two days, hopefully of them bringing it down or whenever they can take it out. So I a hundred percent will vouch for all the wooden. Railroad ties disappearing from the face of the earth. Very good. That is affirmative testimony. Thank you for answering that piece of the puzzle. Great. So then section. And that brings us to section three thousand and seven, which is deep slopes and I'm going to take a little more time here. This is a relatively new portion of our zoning by law. I would say two years or less new. And so I do want to walk through it. And this is where we may call upon. Don and or John to, or and or Eric to point us to the relevant parts of the. Applications. So the purpose for doing this is to make sure that we are developing in a safe way. Make sure we're developing a way that is taking, not damaging a neighbor's property. Keeping water quality. Hi. And avoiding having to provide services way out to remote areas, which is not, not relevant here. So that's why we're reviewing the slopes over 30% on this parcel. And we have a set of standards that we are bound to review to ensure that everything's being done safely. So some of this is captured in the narrative and the pictures, but I do want to walk through it and, and get more information as needed. And I may have you, I may have at some point, Meredith pull up the. The site plan if necessary. So let's just, let's just jump right in. I'm going to go through the standards. I'm going to read them. The first one is that development must be designed to limit the amount of disturbance, the clearing of existing natural vegetation and impervious surface in order to minimize potential for erosion, stormwater runoff, flooding and water flow. So I'm going to jump right in. I'm going to go through the standards. I'm going to go through the standards. I'm going to go through the standards. To minimize potential for erosion, stormwater runoff, flooding and water quality impairment. And it's looking like a pretty small area that's going to be disturbed with the intent to replant all disturbed. Is that accurate? Yes. As the applicant, I would say yes. And. Kate, I'm not an engineer at all. Okay. An economist. And so I will defer to John and Don, I'm not going to be doing anything else. I'm not going to be doing anything else. I'm not going to be doing anything else. I'm not going to be doing anything else. I have to be doing anything else to plan very, very carefully. But that is exactly what you said is indeed the case. Great. Thank you for confirming that. And that the product must not create steep slopes. Create slopes steeper than 30%. Is it that, is that the case? Well, any slopes greater than 30% be created by this project. John, could you answer that please? John is unmuted but can join us. Okay, but maybe while waiting for them Kate, I could just give you my kind of layman's The slopes is Meredith the scene. They're all very steep All right, that that is the nature of the land all around us not just our slopes, but the slopes of our neighbors It's all I think one of our slopes of our neighbors is 45 degrees. It's almost anything more. It'll be 90 degrees I'll be straight up into the heavens. So they're very steep. So I think the only area where there would be Some leveling not to make it any steeper But just to do it so we can put the stone steps going up in that little corner everything else is basically keeping The contours drawn by the landscape architect So we're not in the back of anything the slopes are getting less because the wall in the back would slope down Therefore it's restoring the original slope that was there since 1903. It was the previous two previous owners who decided to put a mudroom Which was a structure we took down with the big support of the state of Vermont But to bring the house back to the historical look there was no mudroom there So in order to do the mudroom the owners decided to put a wooden this block wooden wall So there the slope is just going to be restored back to what it was Much more than what it is today, which is now kind of a big wooden wall everywhere else The slopes are being filled to get the contours if Don or John Whenever whenever use back, please jump in and do you think I'm here? John you're here. I just didn't want to interrupt you. Okay. Can you hear me? Yes? Thanks. Go ahead John Yeah, sorry about that. Um Yeah, I Think Eric gave a pretty good accurate depiction of the site there's really a landscaping project to remove some crumbling walls and put in new ones and greatly increases steps rather than have to climb up steep slopes and Provide a walkway. So yeah, it really is a great project to kind of make the land more usable There isn't a great deal of fill. It's mostly regrading of what is there to provide a flat Area around the home if you if you've seen pictures of there you like a group of Google Street You can see the very steep front yard And it'll essentially stay the same with Rotated to the back so it's it's not a massive construction site project where the whole site gets torn apart It's more like tweaking of the existing Okay, good. Thanks. Thanks for chiming in John and good explanation Eric I may have a more more specific detail questions just to make sure we're checking the box on these different standards So I'll continue through those. I think you've just attested that this project will preserve distinctive natural features the general topography of the site and existing natural vegetation The next standard is about storm water To the project must maintain or reduce the pre-existing rate and retain the pattern of storm water runoff and Per the application materials there is advice from Don to Keep the storm water Keep the runoff in the drain the way that it is and we also have heard that there's being a reduction in the space being used for parking Which is reduction of impervious surface Do DRB members have any questions about the storm water on the site? Okay, so I think we've we've got sufficient evidence on that criterion Downspouts that's the word I was looking for. Yep Produce a final grade that is compatible with the surrounding natural terrain We have heard about about how that will be achieved with the restoration more toward the 1903 shape of the land Create a harmonious transition between graded slopes and natural terrain. I believe that criterion is similarly met Um by the testimony that we've heard as is item seven avoiding creating continuous unbroken slopes or linear slopes. There will still be Some relief to it some As it goes so I'll And then number eight contour graded slopes by varying the slope increment to produce a final grade that undulates both vertically and horizontally and we've heard the attention is being paid to making the site more functional and Physically and aesthetically so all of those are kind of different ways of making sure that that that the slopes work together Do DRB members have any questions about those criteria? Kevin Just very quickly, uh, how large is the you know, how many square feet is the uh impacted yard? Um, good question. You mean how much like earth earth work is done? Well, that would be that would be how many cubic feet of soil would to be moved And that would it would have been my second question. My first question is what is the uh, the print outline square feet for the project Okay, sure. Um, let me just get that for you real quick. Excuse me We can give you a second to do that. Um, Were there any other questions that folks would like to ask? Well, well, john is penciling that out Okay, while he's doing that, I'm going to look at item nine if that's all right Which is to vary cut and fill banks and terraces to produce a final grade that has visual interest and allows for naturalistic landscaping and I believe I have heard testimony that, um This is a landscaping project and that the goal is to create a more naturalistic Surrounding that house to complement the landscaping and the landscaping to complement People's ankles so that they can walk around in the yard without breaking them um So, um, john you want to chime in? Yeah, it's about 14 the total area of disturbance Uh of earth work is about 1400 square feet Um, so not very much and then the whole the total cubic yards of material to be regraded Um to come re-secure that front bank is about 100 cubic yards Thank you Of course Thanks, john and thanks Kevin for your question. Um, I will move on to the remaining criteria. There are just a handful Um Consider the use of retaining walls and terracing rather than cut and fill banks And we've heard there isn't going to be cut and fill there is going to be improvement to existing retaining walls Um and and do you realize some of these standards apply more to new construction than than to this? But we'll we'll go through them anyway Um 11 is to vary the pad elevations on sites with multiple structures to follow the natural terrain um Any questions about that one? Um provide roads and drives that follow existing contours. We've heard that they're the same driveway It's the same driveway compact building forms and multi-story buildings to minimize building footprint there's no change to the building footprint And split or multi-level buildings forms that step up or down the slope. Um, it already already does that It's an existing building Um, so those those are the design standards I like to walk through them because I like to be precise with this um And I will pause there and see if this would be a good point to see if DRB members have any any other questions about this from these standards Okay, and Um, I would also pause at this point since this is the biggest part of the application to see if there's anyone here Who's maybe a neighbor or or someone else who was here who came here tonight to comment on this application If there are any questions or comments about what we just went through Thank you So we're next we're going to move on to section 3008 which is erosion control and the staff finding is that the necessary professionally prepared erosion control plan has been presented as part of the engineered plan and That the department public works has also given it's okay to this to this project. So do Board members have any questions about erosion control on this site? I think it's been well reviewed and the Um design looks reasonable within the parameters of the Of the standards great Thank you. Thank you Kevin Section 3009 is stormwater management and as we've heard um, there's not a private stormwater system It just starts overland to municipal infrastructure and the current flow patterns will remain Um, so staff finding is the compliance with this section um Questions about stormwater Okay, shifting gears a little bit is section 30010 access and circulation And this has to do with making sure that comings and goings to a site can be done safely. Um, and we What we have here is a previously non-conforming driveway because um The the standard rule is for driveways to be 50 feet from intersections and this one's quite a bit closer Um, but we have heard that it's being reduced on the northern edge Which actually moves the edge of the driveway away from the road that it's close to so the conformity is being nonconformity is being reduced And then we're also finding that the parking and loading areas section 3011 Um, it's compliant. The space is adequate And there are no parking requirements in this district. So, um, the choice is on the owner, which is fine Um All right, so those are our general standards. Um Any questions or um, even additional anything that the applicant wants us to add or wants to add for us to be aware of As Kevin said, it's a pretty thoroughly presented application All right, um, I will go next to chapter 310 special use standards For fences and walls. These just make sure that the We this confirms that those are not subject to setbacks and also notes a height maximum which is six feet tall And according to the application the retaining wall is going to be three and a half feet tall less than six So it meets this requirement Um pretty straightforward Does anyone else want to Any DRB members have any questions or comments at this point? We've reached the end of the staff report Okay, and um, I will offer a last opportunity for any public comment on this application Very good. I'll offer a last opportunity for the applicant and Applicants engineers to comment if they wish it is optional. Okay. I just wanted to say It's been an interesting process going through this working with meredith And the team and working with the dpw all of them took personal interest Many came and watched the site itself walked around it and showed more than just bureaucratic interests They were very interested and they got very good feedback. So from them saying this is once done This will be really beautiful for this particular location, which is right next to the state house So it gets a lot of a lot of tourists walking by and I just hope that Um, when you stand there once it's all done when you look from the bottom of the steps You'll see the golden dome and you'll see a nice walkway Um, as a set of steps going up and the rest of the land will also be much more Usable because right now it's just Totally unusable anyone trying to walk on it will typically roll off and end up on the bottom So I'm quite excited about it. And I just wanted to say thank you and I hope it all works out well Well, thank you. Thank you for taking the time to be here tonight and for saying nice things about city staff They're they're really excellent team and we feel very supported by them at what as well So I'm glad that was positive John. Do you want to say anything from the engineering standpoint? No, they've reviewed the project closely with dawn and I think he has it covered between The zoning regulations and also covering any questions and getting approval from public works. So Um, I hope make the process go smoothly and um, I appreciate the time You're good. Thanks John Well, good. Um, so I will let you know that we've been deliberating in a closed deliberative session because of the complexities of the zoom environment and In order to render more thorough decisions We've been doing it this way instead of in the public setting and we're doing this for all applications So our choice to move into deliberative session is not a reflection of the application one way or another But what we will do is at the close of this public hearing we will if the board votes to do so we will Deliberate on this and then as usual Issue a written decision that Meredith will be in touch about when it is ready So those are our next steps, but that concludes. Um, at this point I would Take a motion To All right. I always get this wrong to um, close public the public portion of the hearing on this application and continue in deliberative session at the close of the public meeting So moved Motion by Kevin Second second by roger. Very good. We'll we'll take a vote by roll Rob Yes Kevin. Yes Roger Yes Joe Yes Abby Yes And I vote yes as well. So we will deliberate on this at the conclusion of the public meeting Um, thank you all for your time. Uh, pleasure to meet you and uh, Meredith will be in touch Thank you Have a good night Don, John and Eric Thank you very much Thank you So, um, next we will move on to the 2996 Elm street Sketch plan review of a two lot subdivision And I'll let everybody get their documents and I'll give the applicant who is Robert Scott a chance to return to the meeting I'll get my notes Great So Hello Oh, welcome Thank you Um So this is a sketch plan review for a two lot subdivision at 2996 Elm street And, um, as folks may or may not know, um, a sketch plan is an opportunity for a weather report on a project It's a chance to just hear from the drb and see what they see In order to assist you as you prepare The final application and since no decisions are being made tonight. We're not we're not accepting testimony. We're just having a conversation Um, I won't swear you in We won't do it that way Um And so to start things out, I will as usual give meredith a chance to do a quick overview Okay, so, um As you said, this is sketch plan subdivision. So there's not going to be a decision tonight Um, this is just a chance for you to ask for the board to ask questions or point out places where they think the applicant Might need to give some more information before the final application um, this is a two lot subdivision on a Decent sized parcel off of elm street. Um elm street as it's getting close to the northern boundary of Montpelier, um, so it's not what what some people think of elm street who don't usually take route 12 out of town um, and You know, I've I've laid out most everything in the staff report There aren't in my mind. There weren't a lot of questions There weren't a lot of missing pieces of information until you really got to the subdivision criteria specifically Um, which a lot of times for sketch. We don't ask for a lot of that narrative information Um for the sketch plan application itself that part's more of a longer discussion um You know, but there weren't there weren't any big questions that came out of running this through all the department heads So I've tried to highlight some information in there in that latter part of the staff report. So For anybody looking from home This starts on page 44 Of the big meeting packet. That's where there starts to be some items in red in the staff report on this particular matter Um, and then just one other note. Kate when you're ready for it I do have a quick there's a follow-up email that I got from another member of the conservation commission Okay, let me know when you want to bring that up. Great. I'll probably probably go In order of on the staff report because that way I don't forget anything But before we do that, I would like to um invite Rob Scott To to say anything that you'd like to say or any big questions that you have that that you'd like us to consider As we as we go through this um, I don't really have any questions. Um, the subdivision was Uh, initially to facilitate the sale of the home As many people didn't want to purchase a lot of land with the home. Um, I do have future plans to uh upgrade via road and, um Probably get a septic design for the uh, I call it the upper field the upper what would be the nine acre parcel and uh But no immediate plans to build on it. Um, it's a beautiful piece of land I've had it for about 20 years And uh, it would make a wonderful home site. Um I don't think it's would be suitable for more than two homes Just for aesthetics, but uh So that's that's about it. That's my initial plans and uh So i'm curious to see what you guys have to say Well, good. All right. Well, thanks. Thanks for that overview and I assume that you've seen the staff report from meredith I have yes, and I'm ready. Yeah, okay so, um Maybe I'll ask a sort of a similar question of board members. Do board members have uh having Before we dive into the staff report having reviewed this have any like big picture questions or areas where you want to dive right in Okay, we'll just scroll through the staff report in that case Um So a lot of the general standards don't apply when we're doing a subdivision because there isn't a particular use Proposed as of yet But our job is to just go through and make sure that once the site is created that it is usable For something so that that is our interest in looking at this at this board level So demolition is not an issue. Um Steep there are some steep slopes on the parcel Um, but of course subdivision doesn't disturb slopes. It's just lines on a map But um now meredith, could you could you please remind me? Do we delineate building envelopes? um In our subdivision regulations um, so We typically want to see That there is An area that can be used so a lot of times for these two lot subdivisions On the subdivision plan not the final plat but on the subdivision plan They'll lay out where the setbacks are for primary buildings so that The board can see that there is an area in there for a There's an envelope right an area where a building could be built But in the rural I mean in the rural Zoning district there are uses that may not even need a building. Um You know, it could be a park So, you know, we don't we don't have to have a building envelope a building area on Thank you. Thank you. Um, I'm going to pause and welcome Michael as our talk to the meeting. He's our he's another d rb member Michael. Thanks for joining us Yeah, thank you. Good evening. Yeah, really we've just gotten started with a sketch plan review on elm street. So We're going through the staff report um So things like storm water management and erosion control access and circulation would all be determined by the use Um I just have a one quick Real quick question real quickly. What is the total size of the parcel? Uh, it's a little over 12 acres Okay, and and the proposal is to make it into two Uh one, uh, three a little over three acre parcel that would be with the house The 2996 residents, uh, which would leave about 12 acres In balance Okay, thank you And the minimum lot size the parcel size out here is um two acres minimum lot size So those meet the minimum lot size requirements Handily Um, all right good. So, um Going through the general standards And then we reached the subdivision standards of chapter two 350 of our zoning regulation and um rob is you probably saw in the staff report and as meredith alluded to There will need to be some more specific information about anticipated impacts of the subdivision Even if some of the answers seem a little obvious It's very helpful to us as a board to have those written down so that we we have heard your assessment of traffic impacts and impacts on community facilities and solar glare Any of the things that that may come up in the subdivision standards So the staff report makes note of that Um Looking at the criterion criteria standards related to suitability of the land um there is a note about um How lands subject to periodic flooding poor drainage and adequate capability to support development etc um If there are any of those features of the land that would be something to know about And um, I know there are some streams nearby which we'll talk about later, but also, um rivers on the other side But it's way downhill. I think so if there are any erosion Like fluvial erosion issues Um, it would be important to know about those. Oh, I don't think it would reach to the upper meadow No um And d rb members on this one, please please do jump in if you have some questions Um We'd want to hear about anticipated traffic comings and goings in the final application to the extent that it's possible to understand that um So moving on to the design and configuration of the parcel boundaries Again in the narrative just demonstrating that the way that you've sketched out the Outline of the parcel meets these meets these requirements Some of these have to do with connecting with existing Roads and sidewalks and things and those are going to be less relevant in the in the rural area Sorry, I'm looking at another monitor and kind of skimming through as as we talk re-skimming through I should say um And Meredith you're also welcome to jump in um So design and layout of necessary improvements. Um, we're not adding streets and pedestrian and bike facilities for two lot subdivision um It will be necessary in the final application to show that the parcel can Accommodate water and wastewater. Is that is that right? Meredith? Am I reading that note correctly? Correct. So we don't need to have an actual permit um But robin we can talk about this more um, if need be But you're gonna want something from a professional that says yes We can see that this land will be able to um, you know Perk, you'll be able to get a septic permit for this or some sort of alternative um plan For water and sewer out here. Okay. Well, I think it's important to note that The application in the future when you get it to the application stage is for The subdivision of the land as far as the wastewater Standards and things of that nature that would depend upon a specific project being proposed Okay, right. So there'd be like a two-step process involved before you before you're Before a new development could Sure, okay. Could be could be added But as long as as long as there's somebody who says yes, you could get at least You know water and sewer necessary for a single family home Or a duplex or what happened? Yeah, and then later when you when it comes to an actual zoning permit for somebody to develop it Then there'd be more questions. Okay I know I talked to some engineers and uh, the land was um A lot of gravel was peeled off back in the 50s. I believe to um help build route 12 or rebuild 12 so The upper field where the a home would be built Has got a lot of gravel in it. So The engineers seem to think that it would perk no problem I know the neighbors and middle sex Um, do have a well. I think it's 200 feet 250 feet deep So it's quite deep well, but um, they did hit water But I understand your your um your points Yeah We understand too. It's probably in your interest to make sure that lot is saleable with those features. So Great, so um public and private utilities You saw the standard that all utilities are located should be look shall be located underground unless prevented by ledge or other physical Conditions or where the subdivisions in a section of street with existing above ground utilities and burial would not be practical So that is something you'll want to to look into um Let's see landscaping Landscaping again contingent upon what goes on the site and we would probably suggest We would probably suggest a condition of your future Approval that any future development on that subdivided land be subject to a landscaping plan So that's something to Be aware of for the future. Okay um We do require that There be installed um right away monuments and lot corner markers at Corners and angle points of all lots in accordance with state statute And I didn't look as closely at that part of the application probably as not as closely as rob goodwin might have Um as a surveyor, um, but I seem to get looking really quickly. It looks like there already are some monuments in place Marking the edges of the property. Yeah, I believe mike did uh locate At least one. Um, I'm not sure If there are others, um But I could bring that up He was the uh mike patterson was the landscape or the surveyor Okay very good um Yes, just note note where those will be placed once the land is subdivided. Is there new ones? Um, just kind of going through here. Um Because I'm stumbling a little on this on construction and maintenance of necessary improvements as as mariteth notes This standard is usually about multi parcel subdivisions where you may be building a road that needs to be maintained but um Then so the overall comment there is just to provide a narrative on these criteria including where they may not apply Okay, sorry if I'm repeating myself For some of these just a single sentence in your narrative saying this doesn't apply because of x Okay, it's usually sufficient. It's just it's just I can't just provide all the facts I have to be able to summarize them for the board. So You can talk about it and you can run a draft narrative by me and if anything seems to be missing If I'm application then we can talk about it. Yep. So the same is true of standards related to renewable energy and energy conservation um, that brings us toward the end of the staff report to the natural resources protection and um It sounds like there is a stream on the southwest border of the parcel Yeah and um, but it may be not actually on the parcel, but it Could be impacted depending on where development takes place on the parcel. So um, is Yeah, as it says, um, most of the uh If there would be a development, um, it would be Further away from the stream or feed I believe But uh, but I understand that and I understand the questions there Yeah, great. So we received one comment from an individual who is on the conservation commission that was not representative of the conservation commission, but it suggests um A maintaining at minimum a 50 foot forested buffer along the stream for wildlife movement Um, and it sounds like the house any future construction would not be that close anyway. Um, Okay, and and marith this would be a good time if we've received additional comments from the conservation commission to bring those to the record watch this record, but The conversation conversation. Um, so phyllis rubenstein who's also a member of the conservation commission sent me an email It just said that she concurred with the comments submitted by page curtain Okay, she wanted to make sure that was there. Thank you Um, that's the board members may house Okay. Oh, yeah Abby go ahead So, um, I wanted to go up to The class four road bail road And so it sounds just to clarify it sounds as if that that road would need to be upgraded To a class three road Yes, will the access Yes, okay It used to be a well used road. Um, I talked to a couple people who've grown up in the area. Um, and They said cars used to drive between, uh, root 12th elm street and uh, portal road in middle sex And um, but over the years it has deteriorated. Um, I can drive my truck up it But uh, it would definitely need, uh, upgrading And I had talked to the, um The department of public works in the past about doing some work and they said, um This is before I thought about south division. They said, you know, you can do light improvements, but any kind of irrigation work we want to take a look at first But uh, yeah to upgrade the road, um, it will take a little bit of work But that's uh, there is a right-of-way and that was established by um, it's a tom mccartle And it was uh, I think it's a 49 foot right-of-way um So which still exists as a class four road now um But yeah That would definitely be something that would have to happen to um To develop a land or put a home on it Mm-hmm Okay Any other questions? Um, do you know if that right-of-way goes all the way to portal road? I'm wondering about what the likelihood is that if the road was upgraded a little ways If it would be upgraded a little bit more and a little bit more and and how that might know the middle six has uh declared their end of Vail road a trail now So it ends at a uh stood at the uh middle sex border Which is um a stone wall at the end of my property So I don't see any any more improvement. Um I think the town told me that they if I wanted to put a home up there in the field Um that they would probably abandon the road and I would assume The road to be private I guess but I'm not sure I have to talk to them again Um, but I don't see I don't see this road being improved any further than a class three road to accommodate access to The upper field area Okay Thank you. Abby. Thanks for your question Are there other questions about this application? All right. Any anything else that Meredith would like to add or rob that you'd like to add? I can't think of anything. Uh, I um I don't know what the next step would be To apply for a final permit but I guess I can Maybe I could talk to Andra about that or uh What my next step would be to uh To see if this is going to go through Sure I mean, that's rob you and I or you and Andra Whichever works we can discuss, you know, it's really answering the open questions that we're in the staff report Um, and there's some other steps like getting getting an actual draft final plat Um from Mike Patterson, do you have things but we'll talk about that. Um, and You know, there's there needs to be more information And then once you're ready, it would come back for a final application. Okay Okay Well, thanks for coming for this initial walkthrough. Um, sometimes these end up being long conversations on With complicated issues that arise and other times they're a check-in So, um, I hope it was helpful. Um, thanks. Thanks for taking the time and waiting through the other application as well And perhaps we will see you back With a final application. Absolutely. Thank you very much for your time. Yes. Thank you Thanks All right, so That was our last item of Our last application And so regarding other business, um, Meredith, you have an update on 33 luma street Yes, so that, um appeal of the permit was withdrawn. They dealt with it through community justice Um, and so they were able to the the appellate would do their appeal and Everything seems to be copacetic at this point. At least just as much as it's going to be Sure. Well, thank you for For, um, keeping an eye on that and thanks to the community justice league for helping neighbors work things out That sounds like a great resource It's been a really wonderful resource to be able to tap into these last six months or so Good. Well, we would we would note that and remember it for for other things that may arise Um, so our next meeting is scheduled for monday december 21st And do we know meredith if we are likely to have additional app or have business to conduct at that meeting? Yep, we will Good, we'll see you then. Um, all right very well. Um, that concludes the meeting and so what I would do is I would take a motion to conclude the public portion of the hearing and adjourn to deliberative session So moved Motion by roger Second by joe. I'll call the roll Rob Yes Kevin Yes Roger Yes Joe Yes Abby Yes Michael Yes And I vote yes as well the meeting is adjourned and we will reconvene in deliberative session meredith will you be sending out a separate link? I did already at 754 Abby have you gotten it because I know you've been very complicated with emails All right, well, thanks folks. Let's um, let's move directly to that meeting. Um, and that concludes the public portion of our meeting Thank you all