 And so I'd like to spend a few minutes talking about concerns that historians have, how we do things, how we work on things, how we do research, how we started on this. And so we'll be turning over to Kamagay. Anong mo, Ferdy, ang ganda ng sinusat mo sa Inquiver. Dukos sa Buddhadjo ang saka nung bansa. So siguro pwede mo naman di paliwana kote. Dukos dito sa pangapangayara dito. O sige, ang article na yan, iningi talaga sa akin ang editor yan ng Inquiver. Kasi alam mo naman tong si Presidente, minensyon niya yung Buddhadjo. Pag tinig naman yung social media ang dami talaga ng mga data nang mabas. Because the difference now and yung mga unang panahon, in the internet available ang mga data sources yung ganoon. Pero maganda yung point ang editor na, as historians, how do we frame and present these to our present audience? Na maraming netatalo kung ano nangyari dito yung pinon. So ako naman, I made it a point na, as you know, dahil tayo yan dito sa discipline ng history. To make sure that my sources are really documentary evidence of what happened in Buddhadjo and in Buddhbagsak, in the beginning of American colonization. Kaya magigitam mo doon, dalawang main sources ko lang doon. Yung Philippine Commission reports at sila talaga nangyari report sa U.S. na nangyari dito. Plus yung report ng isang abadcan po motad dito. Who went around moral bias, he said, to ask the elders about what happened. Kaya I'll use that source, you know why? Kasi sinabi nyo. At 20-something years na siyang paman pa after. So sabi nyo sa ang sources. And then sabi nyo ito mga in-interview ko. So I thought it was kind of iral yung ball. Kasi sabi nyo, baka mga elders. So piniyant ako, kung ang mga elders na sinasabi nyan, siguro mga 60s, then going back mga 20 years, so siguro yung mga 20s na sa 20s yung ano. At kung 20s sila nung time ngayon, na tatanda ang talaga nila. Bakit na yung pinangit mo? Alam sa hara na si Prina kasi na kasi sayayan. May dalawang makalagang kambinangit. Una yung sources. So napakakalagka para sa historian, o para-isulan na kasi sayan, o ang nakaraan, meron tayong sources. At naman na nakitapong mahalaga, na pinangit mo ay yung metodo ng oral history. Kasi sabi mo ay nakapanayan, yung mga nakasaksi nung panayari. So sa history talagang mahalaga, yung sources, at pangalawa, isan paraan ng pag-ukuka lang tapos nukusan nakaraan, at ito yung oral history. Aside from that, yung relating to yung mga sinabi natin na pinatin natin sa camera, is na lahat tayo ay meron tayong sariling interest, or we have our own particular hobbies, if you might say, which got us interested in what we're doing. Dr. Kamagay, women's history, kayo perdi, you did your just letters, examining letters of all minds of the Japanese occupation. We look at it at different levels, different perspectives, but it all winds up in, that all of this is very exciting material. So again, oral history, letters of published histories, but we also have relics, we also have visits to the place it happened, and then there are other beyond. Most people think that puro archive is not good as I am in this day and the library. It's very basic, so yung mga sulat na natininan mo sa shift from reform to revolution. Of course, it's per archival, traditional ways, but then, sa women, sa Second World War, saka ang uli na, because I also have approaches to different sources. So maybe, how did you get interested in your letters? Eh, katulad din yung sa Buddha, yung, ojens na natin ngayon yung, kumisang sinatabogin yung battle of buddhadyo, o at saka battle of buddhpagsa. Pero yung ilang moro mga communities yung tawagin massacre. Paya ang sabi ko, we have to look into the documents. Ano ba talaga yan? Massacre, battle, no? So itong aking nangmong research na gresend ko dito sa project na ito, ito yung, yung transition ng thinking ng mga propagandista, no? From reform to revolution. Because traditionally, and even yung ating ojens siguro, alam talaga natin is propaganda, and then mamaya-maya revolution na. And then nobody asked na, mayang bang, nagbahago sa isip ng mga, ng mga participants? Even when I was a student, and even when I was a young, young historian, young pa rin naman, younger historian. Of course, of course. O sabi ko, hindi ko nila, panag-tuturun ako, okong isang propaganda, and then revolution. Mr. Janti ko naman, direct tanong, sir pa pa nung nag-transition yung sa revolution? Ito interestingly, sa mall, nag-start yung kakingan na dyan, hindi sinasad jahe. And you know, historians, parami tayong mga researchers, we just stumbled on it. And then later, we built this into, you know, a more systematic inquiry and research, and then later, we come up with general statements. But actually, we just started with this thing, kaya ito, nasa mo lang ako. Eh, laman-laman, mahiling tayong mga anti-cantit, kati mga libro. Eh, dito sa mega-moliac ako, yung nag-hita ko, wow, yung epistolario-resalino, I knew it was about the letters of risalino and the propagandist. So binili ko, inon, may jang mura pa, pero alun, may mahal na rin di sa mahal dyan, yung mga collectors, sa shops nyan. Mag-uiko, and for the following weeks, nag-endure lang basayin yung mga letters nirisal sa kanya kapaten, letters nirisal sa mga tapuan yung propagandista. And then, after some time, may image na na bubo, sabi ko, we're going back to my, you know, undergrad years, and even in my graduate years, sabi ko, teka, bakit sinabi ni and I'll mention Idleberte Bangunista? I don't become a kati pulero later, because he studied in your Paris, he was an engineer. So, a sabi niya, bag tayo tayo ng club revolutionary. And sabi ko, teka, mga propagandista tuwan. Hey, bakit ito ay revolutionary? Oh, at house-cultin yan mo, by date, pininan mo, makikita mo, meron particular date doon, na nagbabago yung kanilang thinking. Eh, di mo alam na man natin propaganda. Reforms. Ang Pilipinas, mas maganda, mag-improvision ang Hispanic. Pero ito club revolutionary. That means, it's quite different. So, you know, sa ating word, sometimes we don't put yung audities. What's different? And then when it strikes you, bakit ito nang kagalito? And I think that was the key. Nasabi ko, ah, we can fill a gap here. And the gap is, yung transition na, na dati propagandista sila, reform, reform, reform, and then, gradually meron palang talagang nangyayari sa utak nila. Na shifting to revolution. Ang alam lalang natin, oh, propagandista yun, reform lang yan, eh, yan yan, tapos. And then, bonifacio kadipuna. We didn't realize na, yung misto mga propagandista, their minds were changing. And that was very revealing. And then, unti yung thing, I went deeper. And then look at the events, na nandun din selectors. And again, as you mentioned, yung importante ng the sources that we use. Sometimes, yung just handled it. Pero later, we, we, you know, we bring it up into some kind of an image based on the patterns that we see from the the sources, you know. Na ikaw na mga kwento, eh, mga kasi, na mga kasi. Well, actually, while I was listening to you, sa history kasi, we always take a look at the context. It's very, very important. Events have to be contextualized. And, for my example, when I was reading a particular document in, in Spain, tecantin yung yung yung sigareras. Sigareras, yung bukagawa ng, yung rolling, they made sigareras. Rolling paper. Anyway, yung context, of course, was that the person who was making a report about women who did not report to work at ang ginamit ay parang a tantrum. A tantrum? Hindi wellga. Parang kalboroto. Alboroto yung term. So, if... Parang gata po, gata po. A tantrum. Di pumasok sa paprika at sinabi ay ganun na. It was a tantrum. But, okay, if you were a male and I was, you know, a female reading in, I said, this is not, this is not a alboroto. It's a wellga. In other words, yung point of view ay ang babae, walang kakayahan. Pag-wellga at galaki lama, ang pwede yung lapatan ng salitang wellga. So, kung sila ay hindi pumasok, ayun ay isang alboroto. Okay. So, I think in history, it was very important that there were women now who were having careers as historians and felt that women were legitimate, you know, subjects for history. So, I think that was my turning point as a woman historian that really, I mean, one should focus now on women because they have been really marginalized or invisible in history. So, for me, that was my entry point to an interest of women. So, sa history kase, talaga nyo, you have to learn about the period. So, that was 19th century and for the men, women were not capable of a strike and if they did not report to work, it was because they were making a tantrum. So, tantrum ko, tantrum ko. So, importante sa history yung ganun contextualizing at magandari yung pinunta mo na talagang kapaloob nyan yun ano view point. Kase, at that time, women, as I said, were not regarded highly as men. So, a view point is also very important in history. That's why I always feel that, you know, there's always the question in history. Are you telling the truth? We're also always wanting to say, okay, we want to know the truth. But, I feel that it's the truth with the capital letter t. It's the small letter t. And it's not that truth but a truth that we are making as a historian. So, there's no finality because, you know, like Dr. Jose said, it's based on new sources. It's, your interpretation will change because of these new sources. So, that makes history very dynamic in the sense. So, that was my my entry point to interests of women's system. They can take off from there. Ito naging kita na nga, nga nagsusoot ka pa na mga uniform ng hapune. No, naging kita pa sa mga. It's very important that you mention perspective because when I was young, second world war was still very well talked about by everybody and there were these relics around and like any typical boy of my age I think playing war also had guns and all of this. And we heard the Americans were the good guys, the Filipinos were supporting the Japanese were bad. And as I grew into my later childhood within my teens I heard a different story. My parents belong to they were in different places during the war. My father was in San Juan. My mother was in San Juan City. My father's father I learned later was killed by the Japanese but they never wrote me that. But from the San Juan site it seems they didn't have that much of a problem They had Japanese friends my uncle learned Japanese language and Japanese music and then I realized why not the Japanese enemies Samasila killers I got a very different perspective from the San Juan experience but they were human and then my uncle made it a point to try to contact his friends in Japan after the war and they did and some people we don't call the Japanese site in this film the thing is when you talk about the war kailangan you cannot talk about the war from one site alone because none of us are human compassion so I said okay we have American sources the community sources are here but people are not making use of them yet but in Japanese site was unknown so that got me into studying on Japan studying Japanese eventually studying in Japan itself tried to complete that process then you found out Australians were here also the Mexicans were here the Chinese were here and so to come up with more holistic view of the world one look at all these different peoples the ego also involved the muslims were involved and then there were different examples different experiences in different parts of the country so it was not a cut and paste type of black and white there were so many variations to go on so that's where you learn how complicated this was and how in studying history you have to take into account all these different perspectives and then try to come up with a narrative that embraces different perspectives but of course that changes with time also because when I was growing up there were very few technical sources now the internet is so many things of the world now And in this presentation more in Japanese in culture the cultural mindset the one that was being imposed by the Japanese and the one that was countering it on the ground in the Filipino cultural mindset it's important previously we don't get to discuss this dimension of our history it's simply events but the one that you presented was very good because at least we are presented with another way of looking at the Japanese occupation na hindi lang ito mga tagutong barila it was really something new and maybe you can tell us also how you got into looking at the cultural dimension of things also that when looking at it when we meet baka war it's always battles here and if I'm not doing occupation there was a fairly stable period where my mother went to school my father also went to school at that time and those things were not in baka occupation so then then I found I found pieces of music from the war I asked my mother to pray then immediately contacted and said what happened in 1942 I'm listening to now that gave me a very great thrill it's like a cut through time and then later on of technology you will see the same thing when you look at the photograph and you find the photograph that also breaks through time because you can see this is what what the camera saw and then with audio musical recordings from that time you also get to see even though you are not there you could hear the sounds of that time you could see people as they knew at that time so you have a different perspective and then through that comes the cultural side of it which is not really that well documented but if I look at the theater was active at that time drama and then all these other things that were going on that more or less when you talk about war you don't talk about those but then it came out it's another dimension you know even women have a different view of war when you read stories by women like the one written by Montenola yes yes breaking the silence breaking the silence breaking the silence or even the work of is Hasinto Pestaño on living in the heavenly I was struck by how different they look because I think women became the experience more in an intimate way they focused on everyday life so their take on the war was so I mean we're so used with the pathos that you were saying so but when you see and you read these memoirs of women but they humanize the war in a sense because they were talking about their feelings how their fears no and their desperation and that I think is something missing in discussing the war in fact I appreciated Niko and say was saying in one video that you know the 1935 Commonwealth period after 1945 it's mostly concentrated on the three years of Japanese occupation how about the years before that which is often used as peace time that's never peace time that's never bothering to be standing at all so I think there's some injustice for us that we're focusing on the war but we don't speak about the peace time what preceded not the war what preceded the war that's when women wanted to go that's right exactly that's where I find that women were there because that was one of the achievements of the Commonwealth Commonwealth it was at the time when they were given the right to vote at the national language yes yes so you know I feel that we should be working historians to document this particular period of life what about if you say only transition it's not only transition in perspective but transition in their perspective perspective because expression is pointed out from reform to revolution then from revolution how do you fit that under the Americans when they come in how do you continue to fight but you know you can't fight with arms so there's transition there again and then the Commonwealth of transition Japanese occupation transition and right now with the presidency now it's transition so you find clues to how we behave so maganda nga yung binagit mo na yung women looking at events in which they are participant differently from the men or the intellectual siguro na nagsusulat about those times and I was in Cuba just last year I found a mga relics are shot then it's a diary or not a diary but an account of a Cuban woman who was in the Philippines during the Philippine Revolution oh and I may chumahal pero binili ko na ang bahay mo masay sa Cubans oh my god sa aing naman babaliga ba di naman kia di naman kia po yung pero ano mo you see we're used to thinking that the revolution was something that everybody will come of course we know that there were also traitors but this one is somebody who is not on either side na binabasa ko na ay gali siya sa mga katepunero na sabi niya mga bolang yung ito mga imagine na suddenly yung perspective mo changes no oh my god tapos ay nakatao yung mga Cubans in dohan ito mga communists ito mga revolutionary pinakita ko pag ganito tung Cuban na ito mera siya at napaganda ng source because you get a view of society differently from how a katepunero would look at it because you see things na hindi normal na kasi yung mga historians may piliin yung account ni ganito katepunero and then and you see how it would affect the narrative diba if you get sources ng mga katepunero Mariano Alvarez Asanchago Alvarez Aguinaldo yung narating mureng will be greatly influenced by the accounts of these people but if you get the account of this Cuban na ibang outsider siya and then he would look at the revolution hindi parang may kulang kasi story ay and then when we go to class in the classroom represent natin yung the way we have seen things and how we framed it based on the sources the traditional we use ito ito important yung framing then based on our at yung siguro hindi nabapansin ng maraming pao na the story ay also acts on sources in a personal way by the way related diba you read it and then you read it your family your father was yung gano na ako dahil when I was reading the letters I was in Madrid you can relate it I was relating and then na and for the first time na sa archive sa po na iyakto naga ang yung suffering sinang kasi yung very intimate because it's family yung sinalusiya writing to result talking about this koan and somehow it affects me it affect me and that moved me to really write about it and you know drove partners for me the same way with you also diba ang sabi na ano pa naman na rinikulong yung sa lula ko ay tumigin ang anong nag-alborot na naman na yung bad me sinabing yung nag-belga na parang may something is reserved for women you know one thing reminded me also the historian really being affected by by this word because the historian eventually will be the one who will harness the sources for his or her use na lang jen lang siya pero they become historical if you get them and use them for your interpretation na yung I had a similar experience and I was doing my research so as if the KFD will say it's a foreign affairs and it was usually afternoon it's open so I was reading the Consular Dispatches of the French reporting magusabing here in the Philippines so yung isang yung isang dispatch sabi paris na yung mga pastila they went through the south diba to the train to Spain and then the other paragraph said but the Americans are here so naku sabit mo parang na iyaka ko sabit kawawa naman ang Pilipino hindi malang nakarangas ang kanayaan at all so in and it did not help with my feelings kasi yung ano nangyep pasara na yung archives maglalakan ka na pabaliks sa yung door sabit talaga naman nakaka nakakaawa talaga ang mga Pilipino na hindi nakarangas nag-movement na ang laks ang kanayaan so talagang as historians everything that we will our interpretations will really be very subjective correct no, there's not no such a subjective history we as historians we choose the sources then we'll make it into a interpretation we design yes so that will be the truth at our truth no, gano nang manayaan pero hindi nga siya with finality talagang patuloy at kaya ang sinasabi ko hulang gas gas ng paksa sa kasaysayon there's always something new because each generation will ask a different set of questions about dikatitunan about the revolution so talagang yung di gas gas so I I don't think any topic in Philippine history will be that over you know a research there will be always something new because a different set of questions will now a different generation will be posing a different set of questions yung anong time na yung sinabi ko di ba in the time of Augustine they were not probably asking the question na yung ba talagang exaktong transition sa transitory ko and even we have this our first woman historian international sona she may not also have asked the same questions that you ask like for example looking into the little thing na alboroto and probably there were so many women there during the alboroto that's already a Skype or slow down you can slow down working and in fact yung mga ganyan actions hindi pa rin talagang re-review mo siya do but I think there are a lot of those things so in the time of hundred nung so go di mo nagsodas the Japanese occupation they wouldn't have asked the same questions that now you are also asking pero you need what was written immediately after the war it's very emotional emotional kasi yung nang ano it may nangyari it may suffer so then maybe 20, 30 years they could some distance they could say but there were some plans that were we benefited say at least culturally and then further on one thing that I can do now which I have friends in other South East Asian countries and we can compare the impact of the occupation in Malaysia in Indonesia in fact it's quite different then you begin asking why was our reaction or why was our experience like that so it also widened itself not just national it moves into international control and then by doing comparative occupation studies you find out that you learn more about yourself by just thinking about looking at how other people also they may highlight about characteristics na just like during revolution you do comparative revolution studies what made our revolution you mean and then you cannot do that until you see what the Mexicans still Americans you think I mentioned kanina yung sapin ng personal engagement involvement one and the talk of maray mentioned interpretation when I discuss historical problems now with my students I really make it a point to tell them that the historian decides di ba and so that kailang nilang malaman nyo na the historian decides and that is his interpretation because napat nakita nina they can also make a decision di ba because in other words there is power in the position of the historian pero dapat malaman din yung ng mga readers like our students so that they can take a critical stance kasi ngayon yung kinakmento natin hinapakita talaga natin in each our own ways hinapakita natin yung ako-affected movement na hinapakita natin yung ako-affected ng ganito emotionally tapos ganito pa lang mga Filipino yung ganyan pero ang numalabas nito talaga is may stand tayo and we have power pero napat sila meron ding certain degree of power and it's in the critical understanding of what we historians write it just shows that history is very dynamic it's very active it's living history that's right okay