 it was like it was like I was connected with everything around me all of a sudden I just started questioning everything I'd ever been told you know by the time by the time I got high that very first time when it started to hit me and I'm like well that's us got got got dude her skirt from up north her cut up on it what's up everyone welcome to breeder syndicate I'm Matt my co-host and friend not so that's me and we are here with pips weed from souvenir seeds a very good friend and that's a good one guys this is an episode we've been putting together for a long long like four years into making something like that we've been wanting to do something and finally we're getting to do it it's one of our most requested shows so I'm stoked to finally have you sitting here with this pip and have you interacting with me and not so and everybody can hear some insight into the Ohio strains and what you're currently doing with your career so let's start at the beginning let's start talking about one of the one of the clones that held your interest the most when you first started growing what was circulating at the time I mean when I first started growing it was just I had gotten random clones from a few different people they weren't really anything special it was something orange really low yielding that's what I ran for my first several grows and it was kind of depressing but it was better than nothing because it had a good smell and it was you know decent smoke at least for me at the time but the main ones you know I would say probably like when the lemon G in the Death Star came into my life was like really when I saw like the full potential of like good quality cannabis and um and it's it really fascinated me so that kind of like gave me the oomph to take it to the next level and take things seriously and uh and I did and I you know grew those for a long time for over a decade straight and maybe off of them how early into your like smoking like from the age of where you started smoking to where you started growing like how long did it take until you started getting like Death Star quality type weed okay so when I first started smoking I was probably around 13 and I was just get I got weed from this kid at school and he stole it from his dad and sold it to me for you know $20 I paid him in rolls of quarters I stole from my my parents closet or something like that you know um and smoked and I and I didn't get high yeah so the first time I really ever smoked weed I never really got a buzz and then um later on you know I would you know high school came around you know we had access to the swag basically the seeded pressed Mexican stuff right yeah there's different varying levels of that some were actually surprisingly good the stuff that wasn't really compressed and had the nice mature seeds in it a lot of lime green stuff like that too we call it the Christmas trees but there was good stuff as well but um I don't know I would say probably my sophomore year high school is when I discovered what we call it the time kind bud kb um and it was in Akron at a college party and one of my smoking buddies and good friends I've known for a long time came downstairs and showed me this I was out on the porch and he showed me this bud he's like look at this kb bro and I'm like what the hell is kb like I'm looking at it I'm like what the hell is this he's like it's weed and I I looked at it and smelled it I was like you gotta be kidding me dude uh that's confusing going from compressed to seeing like your first actual dense bud like well grown manicured like personally bud yeah yeah so at that point I had already been selling stuff for a while I did through high school and stuff just to make extra money we you know I didn't come from the wealthiest family in the world by any means so uh it's kind of in a you know growing up situation was kind of every kid fend for himself after a certain point so I did what I had to do to survive and make money so that's how uh that's what I did for a while and then eventually you know after I mean senior year I did I grew some plants I grew my first plants yeah uh outside my parents backyard way in the back and I planted them late and they weren't going to finish in time and I knew it so I dug them out of the ground and put them in pots and brought them inside and put them in my closet to finish out like the last you know three weeks or whatever they need yeah I lined the whole closet with tinfoil black light black lights in there like you know what I mean yeah yeah totally and it was it was looking back it's just hilarious but um I was worried I was going to get caught my mom wasn't super mean but she would uh she would whip my ass probably I thought at least if she found them and uh I had harvested it eventually and then like months later maybe a year later she told me that uh well I was at school she was watering it because it was about to die that whole time she never told me and my mom was a gardener too I grew up growing all kinds of flowers and planting gardens at our house and and other people's houses uh so that's kind of like you know we're I got a little bit of a green thumb before the whole cannabis thing so I understood how things work and yeah and you know how to water and how to feed and you know what a healthy plant looks like and what a sick plant looks like and all that kind of stuff how to prune them um and then I never heard that story about your mom that's fine she's less than her she's a she's a sweet lady she's been put through hell over her lifetime but man I can't even picture my grandma being like oh I'll just take care of the thing like you know what I mean that's pretty cool that's pretty rad yeah so um I would say uh what was it probably right after right after high school is really when I started you know growing pretty good and I you know probably three four years after that I uh I'd say 2005 six seven ish right around those years I started getting a lot of really good genetics I moved up to Akron and uh I met a friend of mine who is still a really good friend of mine we know each other for a really long time he's a good guy his name is Jay and he shared a lot of really nice clones with me he shared the the fava kush the he shared the lemon chi the afghani mango the death star the sour diesel those were like the main ones you know we've had different things over the years and stuff this is very early at that time to be getting clones like that too for people listening yeah that aren't aware this is actually pretty early to be uh having access to stuff like that in in random circles so that's pretty cool that's a good connect I had the indiana bubble gomers was around at that time um one of the very first ones I ever got is one that 99.9 of the you know percent of the people listening aren't gonna know what it is unless you're local but it was called um winaki some people say who knocky and it was pretty frequent early 2000s around this area being sold and a lot of people around here remember it so that's one I've had in my collection you know since probably 2005 what's that one like it's uh it's kind of like jack oh really yeah um I've done a lot of research it might I don't know what it is it I feel like it could be like j1 maybe or I don't know it came from it was a big a lot of the big asian crews around this area uh ran that it was a it was a big one uh and it was everywhere uh but this was back in the day it was for a short period of like two or three years that I remember our group getting it consistently yeah that was one of the first ones I got was that a tealine queen yeah it was it was pretty yeah it's like it's it's tealine but it's got like that funkiness that funk foot funk kind of like thing in it well that's interesting yeah that's cool it's a it's a beautiful plant uh I don't it's those kind of plants aren't my favorite to smoke I don't like the turpinoline stuff yeah uh but I've had I keep it because I've had it for so long and I do enjoy the aromas uh that come from those plants I do I mean I enjoy the looking at them and growing them and seeing the different colors and you know yeah so I keep it around I throw it in the flower room once every couple years and do a nice one of it and a lots of friends or something you know but if you're a sativa person you know you like that kind of stuff that's uh you know it's a good plant it's just super nostalgic yeah for if you're from around here and you're around in those times so we have that we have the one would you winaki we called it the knock the knock okay that's easier the winaki the the we didn't want to mess around with the pronunciation so we just we just called it the knock the that wasn't like that was just our friend group that wasn't like everybody you know that was just us we referred to it as the knock so that's one of the really interesting things about weed that I like a bunch is that how like especially it seems much more so in America than other places every crew is insistent on giving all these different strains they get little nicknames and then amongst that little crew it becomes like just what it's known by you know and so these different strains at different times can take on different lives and you only know what your friend gives it to you as so it's like when you pass around girlfriends you know it can start off as that and then it turns into the knock and then it turns into this and then you know and uh it's it's interesting because sometimes you don't make those connections unless you know someone that knew it by both names right yeah you know it can it can happen you know um I mean we definitely have seen strains that like we think it's one thing and we'll probably talk about that a little later but we think it's one thing and then lo and behold it turns out to be another you know we think we think it's another and you know I'm I'm originally from the Midwest too although I've been in California a long time now um and it's kind of interesting how the Midwest works in the sense that it was much less like trendy it was basically like is as Pip was saying it's like if you got something better than Mexican it was better than Mexican and it wasn't there wasn't competition for it the the desire for something better than Mexican was huge so any kind of kind bud you had went any kind of we called it dank you know we used to call it nuggets and the reason why we called it nuggets is because only nuggets were uncompressed you know like you had the shape of the bud the nugget itself you know and so it looked like nuggets where it's like most other stuff was compressed even if it was lightly compressed it still changed it but if I can stop yet so you know we had some nice stuff every once in a while you run around nice stuff but a lot of the homegrown stuff back then was a little bit creamy a little bit moist still oh yeah um and then we might sound anything better than Mexican was kind bud right right same here like if it was messed up if it wasn't dried the right way or cured the right way if it was preemie there wasn't competition for it there was still more people that wanted it than there was it so it just went Beasters I mean Beasters was kind bud Beasters was kind bud some of you guys remember that that stuff went for the same ticket went for 50 and 8 you know some people quite charging more I mean if you had a if you knew a guy who knew a guy you'd get the $40 deal but you know straight up it was 50 bucks an eighth when it first hit the funny thing about about Beasters in Canada is like the really bad Beasters they sent to the parts of America that they thought had no competition and then the parts of America they thought had a little bit more competition from outdoor or indoor they would send like a different grade so depending on what part of the country you're in sometimes there was some stuff that was actually pretty damn good for the time and then there was some stuff that you were like oof now I will say our Canadian watchers have wanted me to to say remember they only sent their crap down here right well yeah for us that every time we were a Canadian Beasters they're like just remember we had good shit if we just didn't share it with y'all we could chat about we could chat about that later too but Pip and I have had some long combos about there's certain strains he has that he even likes them sort of fermented and you know and what I mean by that is that a lot of times Beasters because let me think of it it's like it wasn't cured that great it was still had some moisture in it and then they'd seal it in a freezer in a freezer in freezer you know seal meals and ship it and it would get no air exchange for a couple of weeks until somebody cracked it and some of that Beasters would ferment and I remember having conversations with Pip about that and he was like man you know there's a couple strains that I actually do that intentionally to because I like the fermentation process which is almost like that African cob work yeah you know right right yeah the fermentation stuff uh you know it seems to me like a lot of the gassier stuff that I run it does it really well like the Death Star uh you know you cure that at a super high humidity uh I have in my notes somewhere I forget it's like I put it keep it in like a buffer I've got on bucket with the screw top lid for 75 humidity or something like that for a while and and not a cold area though you want that warm air to kind of like get that process going I feel like it takes a little bit longer if you keep it in a cold area but it does good with with a lot of the gassy stuff the Death Star Death Star S1's I did it with it was really good um I think Star Dog I think I've done it with before Lemon G it is I love the Lemon G when it's done like that when it's like slightly fermented like that it's uh I like it fresh too I like it both ways it's just you know what's your preference it's different you know just slightly different I remember it sent us the hash the fermented hash that was so good people know too like when we talk about fermentation if they're unfamiliar with it a lot of times curing happens on the stem and if you trim stuff up kind of quick and it still has some moisture content going on and you start to some people call it burping you know all that that's basically like light fermentation if you're if you've got fully trimmed work in a bag or in a in a in a five gallon bucket like he's talking about and it's not ready to smoke yet you're kind of fermenting it in a way in my opinion at least yeah and you definitely got a burp it too you can't just throw a bunch of wet weed in a bucket no it's called molding yeah yeah yeah you don't want to do that there's a fine line there's a fine line it takes you a while to figure it out for each strain and like all that but in the time frame and all that but you know I just keep it in room temp and and it's done pretty good versus like in a colder area stuff like that yeah that's a that's a complex process and I'd imagine a lot of failure uh on the way to figuring it out well honestly it was by accident really you know in my earlier years yeah I just you know left some stuff it just it did the process by itself I guess I just left it in a bag or I left it somewhere I would notice every time I did that that stuff that was a little bit more moist and sat upstairs in a bag after a couple months or whatever taste it was like it was a little bit darker like it was like like degrading you know but and it wasn't as loud but it wasn't like with the Death Star it was like sweet it like loses its gas a little bit and becomes like sweet and uh and it's just I mean it's super smooth smoke it's way smoother than like smoking a fresh bud out off of a plant or something I remember the smoke was super it was thick smoke yeah I mean fermented stuff super thick cloudy smoke oh I sent you about it oh okay I didn't know I got the flour yeah it's uh dude it's it's awesome I enjoy it it's not something I'm going to smoke all the time but like you know it's like a fine wine it's just it's cool smoking and getting that sweet flavor and like I don't know it's just you gotta you gotta try it to understand it and that that's also something that's interesting I think too about like the era we're talking about where information didn't exchange as fast and a lot of times like when I learned like how I cure and stuff it was kind of like you dry things and sometimes it goes well and sometimes it doesn't and then sometimes you learn things good and bad by accident on how you treated it you know and that's kind of what it sounds like you know all you you put it up there you put it in a bag and all of a sudden it did this thing you weren't expecting and then you're like oh well how did I do that and you start playing with like what you did to make it do that right you know oh does it work with this other strain nope this strain doesn't like it at all but this strain boy do I like what it does when it does that and I think that's kind of cool because you know a lot of times one of the cool things about growing in the midwest is that because change was slower back home people grew the same strains for longer there was there was less turnover where like all of a sudden your customers are like oh this is bunk I need something new no yeah that doesn't happen they didn't know that yeah they were just stoked to have you know you get what's there that's that's what it is and so as a result of that sometimes midwestern growers really got to dial in certain strains because they had a long relationship of success by being able to grow them right and it's also we'll talk about that soon some of the some of the stuff that you know that Pip has in his collection is pretty rare nationwide because there wasn't pressure to move on to a new thing you know there was various clones and cuts getting passed around locally and they did well locally so they had their own they had a life of their own almost um we're in California you know populate you know popularity changes and all of a sudden everyone dumps something and just moves on to the next new thing right you're exactly right you were able to I mean you were you were telling us you know Death Star and Lemon G like were the better part of a seven eight year run for you in terms of success right I mean yeah man I mean I've I ran them hard hard for you know at least eight years you know and then I kind of brought new other strains in I was still running Lemon G and Death Star so so over that over that time you know you know especially with indoor where you get to do a number of rips a year you really get to learn how the plant likes to grow how big to get it what size pots how to feed all that type of stuff you know really like you really get it's like a long-term relationship you really get to know your partner you're right you're so right man it's uh you know it took me uh I'd say it probably to fully master Lemon G consistently especially on a bigger scale you know took me probably a solid four or five years uh you know and that was at the beginning when I started growing too so nowadays it's not as difficult but it's a finicky plant it's not something that you can throw in with a bunch of other plants and expect it to you know do well you got to kind of like give it its own environment its own everything like Lemon G doesn't like a lot of light it doesn't like a lot of heat like cannabis plants in general don't but Lemon G especially I raise my lights up to do crops and it flourishes under you know 25 watts per square foot like really really low lighting um that's half of what suggests I believe they suggest what 50 60 watts per square foot for generally speaking yeah so and that's what I've been running for most of my life honestly um it's it's I like that I get good quality off of it and it keeps the heat down because I don't have to have a bunch of lights packed in somewhere you know but it keeps the Terps um a lot of times one of you know you you do two hot of lights on the top foot foot and a half of your plant might look gorgeous right but it might have some of the Terps burned out by the intensity and like actually the bottoms tend to smell and taste better so if you can get away with less light more of the plant brings out some of that subtlety I guess and in my area we've always I should mention we've always had low ceilings the houses at low basement ceilings and the house is around so uh you've actually seen before so uh I was kind of a lot of people around here use 600 waters and that's what I've used pretty much since I started I've used thousands before but 90 percent of what I've done has all been 600 watt lights so yeah Amsterdam had the same thing when I first started going there they were all four and six hundreds they thought thousand watts were crazy american stuff yeah so now that we're on to lemon g let's talk a little bit one about the genetics of lemon g um the history of lemon g and the terping profile of lemon g because that's really like I think I mean what most people find really exceptional about lemon g is that flavor smell all that goodness um my first introduction to it was uh on the forums you know there was there was some speculation about it being stunk misty something you know there's some speculation g 13 hash plant you know expression what have you found out well there yeah there's you know I've been told a lot of things over the years I've been buried to a lot of theories different theories over the years a couple at least yeah um and you know a lot of a lot of what you read is not the case uh some people are close you know um but I was able to get the story from a friend of mine who worked for the lady who made it I'm not going to mention her name sure um but she is local to you know the state that I'm in and uh and she told him that it was uh it was I'm sorry stunk misty uh crossed with uh some g 13 now the g 13 this this lady got s seeds from I believe from a friend I don't think she ordered them yeah uh I don't know what they are I have no idea um could g 13 skunk g 13 hash plant g 13 you know to how many g 13 crosses was there you know yeah who knows uh but that's uh you know and this is a good buddy this is uh my my my really good buddy who he wouldn't both bullshit me or anything like that so uh that's what she says that's from her mouth it's I guess what she's always said so just to kind of clear that up that's where the stories add on the lemon g as far as what it is um I don't know exactly what year uh it was made I would assume it was probably somewhere in like the early 2000s yeah uh that's kind of like what I feel but I've never really gotten an exact date on it so and the tert profile how would you best describe the flavor of g third or lemon g sorry lemon lemon g lemon g is very very very lemony um yeah not hardly I mean no no terpenaline or anything like that really do you notice any map no okay because I can't pick it up if there is any uh lemon I guess lemon and uh lemon rind and lemon mm-hmm yeah I would say it leans lemon astringent yes you know like it doesn't have a lot of sweetness on the back end it has like a very pungent lemon huh let me stop let me stop you sir when you grow it like crap it gets that very it's that very like rindy bitter almost smell but if you if you grow that plant good it comes out like sweet sugar candy lemon g oh I'm telling you there's it's a finicky plant most people get rid of it because they can't they can't get it to perform right they just get that like basic version of it like frankly like uh he was just talking about so yeah just get that basic version and um and they have a hard time with it but like I said it took me several years of faces as we both realized oh we only ever grew it like shit no but I mean it I have a I have a thing with citrus where like you know there's there's a range there from like spraying like cleaner into your mouth to like a little like I tend to like the sweet back end because it balances the astringent you know um and it's one of those things where for me like I love citrus but I have to have other things need other things I can't have citrus be my only weed yeah you know when I described lemon g I always tell people it's like a lemon came into a being form like a human form and then pissed lemon into your mouth that's about how I can describe lemon g it's just so lemon I it's it's very unique to me I've I've seen a lot of plants and I was lucky to get that plant or I was so lucky to get that plant early yeah I mean that I can't believe it but it's so it's still to this day it's so unique there's nothing that I've ever seen really that smells like lemon g like lemon g does that didn't come from lemon wasn't crossed I would agree like when you pull lemon g out and you give it to somebody that's never smelled it before I don't care who you are your eyes are lighting up like you're like what is this you know it just blows you away and it's a good buzz indoor it's it's decent outdoor that plant is magical I love the buzz of that stuff outside and I will only smoke lemon g if it's grown outside oh wow it's just so much better in my opinion but I grew it indoor most of my life and it's still good don't get me wrong it's still good it's a it's a light buzz it's happy yeah it's 100 all my female customers over the years request it's the number one requested for some reason the ladies absolutely love it it keeps it gives them energy they clean on it you know and all that stuff so um so yeah it's been it's been pretty you know pretty popular with the females as well have you um have you tried lemon tree or lemonade yet uh I haven't I've heard lemon tree smells a lot like lemon g but I tend to think that they're related some way I guess to me it's it has to be a lemon g I say has to be yeah in my opinion yeah another thing I wanted to mention is my buddy mentioned that he had smoked my same good buddy again he smoked the the g13 what was it it was a g13 skunk uh back in the day and he said that's the closest thing he's ever spelled to lemon g it was like very spot on but it was just kind of mild so I thought that was a kind of interesting you know thing and then I know a lot of people are going to ask about what's the skunk misty as well yeah and honestly um I haven't I I wish I could tell you it's probably uh they had a strain called misty back in the day it didn't make nirvana or somebody nirvana nirvana seeds not to be confused with your people always confuses nirvana with gypsy nirvana whenever I say nirvana oh yeah so no nirvana seeds had a misty and I can't remember up top my head I can't remember what it was nl something and so basically everything in Amsterdam then that wasn't from neville or a few other breeders almost everything was was something by skunk one pretty much you know so having something that was misty by skunk one in the 90s that was the most common hybrid in Amsterdam was something by skunk one right because skunk one was just consistent you know and I actually can kind of like that the g13 straight cut that you had pip I can kind of see skunk and g13 in that lemon g you know oh yeah um I mean lemon g's kind of like it's kind of got that this is this is like people don't take this the wrong way but it kind of has that like ugliness to it you know we're like there was an era where like we didn't have to be pretty you know and lemon g definitely has kind of that like g13 like weird bud formation leaf formation especially look you know and then you know from skunk one some kind of citrus coming through is pretty common so I can see you know it's probably the skunk one probably took the g13 from being leafy in a mess and made it gave it that nice running cola that probably made it such a good cropper for you for a long time right you know and uh yeah I I saw you know the lemon g for the longest time or let me start by saying actually first uh there's a g13 clone that's gone around this area for a long time since I was in school still my parents my friends parents grew it and my other friends parents grew it and um eventually I got it and that thing is I thought for sure that is what was used for lemon g because you can smell that in the lemon g like it's obvious you can smell that plant in the lemon g it's like okay these both came from the same state you know they smell related they're probably related so I just always figured that's kind of what it was but um and I don't know what that it's with that g13 plant I don't know if it's an airborne g13 cut from the forums or whatever I'm not sure it's just a short little stubby afghan um uh it it it's not really like it's nothing really a lot of people would prefer to smoke or grow these days I feel yeah it's more like your head stash unique old school afghani type of type of stuff like little soapy a little like it's been a while since I smelled it I lost it you know when I went through that whole dudding scenario unfortunately um I it's just one I've never been able to get back I've been looking around you've tried several times right like people have given you stuff back and it turned out not to be it uh I mean I think maybe once with the g but okay the g is pretty easy to spot like if you get a clone of that and it veggies up a little even a little bit you know you might even be able to tell from clone like it's a really unique plant oh wow um short squat little afghani but we can talk about that a little bit if you want yeah I used to talk about it and when we were looking he would send me pics and we would always kind of like wonder is it like is it airborne is it pacific is it something more ancient than that that like survived in where he's at and I will say that like if you look at some of the nevels few pics that he put up of the classic g 13 clone it kind of had that like gnarly ancient afghani ugly look to it I thought it looks very similar for lack for lack of a better turn that's not dissing you know there's plenty of weed that I think is kind of ugly that I actually love to smoke can anyone the ugliest plant ever it's not the ugliest plant ever but there's on earth no there is definitely some haze that I find that I find attractive that is way more hideous no it's can anyone you know you're like oh this thing doesn't have any crystal doesn't have any sugar leaf it's loose it's calyxes it's bullshit you know and then uh yeah I curse but we're in the middle of it all right you're good we're after a minute in but maybe so that we chatted about the lemon g for a second why don't we chat about the other thing you got early that you really love which is the death star oh yeah which is a classic it has a great name and it's been consistently one of your favorites basically from now to then it really hasn't shifted yep yeah the death star is my all star I've loved that plant since the day I got it the day I smoked it I was so happy the day I got it you know I only had probably at that point like 10 or 12 plants in my collection and it just completely kicked them all out of the water you know I like that that hardcore like potency like knock you down put you into the couch type of stuff and uh and that's the effect you get off the death star but you know you also get the super crazy like oniony tennis ball like rubber gas like skunk like nastiness everything's there and you grow it killer people don't understand like I've had shitty death star like where it's grown to where there's not very much rubber at all where it's more of that oniony spicy back end and it's not very good but then I've had your death star where it just kicks its ass so when he's describing this if if if it smells different than what he's describing it's because he's grown it very very very well for a very long time so go ahead continue please on the history of death star okay um I guess where do I start I guess I'll start at uh team death star right yeah yeah um they're from Ohio Columbus area and they are the people that created the death star the death star is a cross of uh sensei star and um sour diesel and they it was an accidental pollination I guess um and they had a couple seeds and they sprouted them and they picked the death star and one of those few seeds that they sprouted was this amazing plant um and I was so lucky I was so lucky to get it in the mid 2000s at the time when I had you know only been growing for four five years or something like that and I was just so intrigued by this plant and how potent it was and how much yield it put out so I just started putting it in all my rooms basically that I had that I had flowering and I just started growing it and growing it and it I mean there's people at my door pitchforks you know three weeks before harvest like where's it we need it we need it like it was it was scary it just it just it flew off the shelves yeah um and I enjoyed I was smoking it all the time I bet uh but yeah so that came from uh from them they got uh the uh the sour diesel cut they got I think came from uh fish show in Vermont back in like uh I forget the date it was like 2004 I think fish did like a farewell show at uh airport in Vermont and um and they picked up I don't know if they picked it up in Vermont or if they picked it up back along the way from Vermont to Ohio but along that trip is when they acquired that and then um from what I've heard another friend of theirs went to Amsterdam and got seeds and came back and um I guess they were grown and a selection was made and that was given to team death star by a friend of theirs and then that's how the cross got the death star got made okay one of the things maybe I should mention because it's like a long term running joke but it ties into what Matt and Pip were just discussing is that um you know it it takes probably a good 84 days right uh you know I mean that's that's about that's that's what I push it to like you can pull it at 77 day I mean a lot of people would pull it at 70 days that's where a lot of people make that's the point I'm gonna make is that one of the differences and one of the reasons why it might be so good from Pip versus other people is that you know he was willing to actually see like how long does this thing need to go before it hits perfection and what happens like and this used to happen with sour diesel a lot in California is that there's people that would grow it until it hit the sweet spot and there's people that would grow it until it hit good enough for market and there's a vast difference that like say you might be able to cut off like he was just saying if you cut death star at 70 it might fly out the door but not be as nice and Pip would take it in extra two weeks and it would reach this extra level and I think the same thing would happen with sour out west it would happen with some other cuts where it was like there was croppers where like as soon as it had the nose and was good enough to go it's time to cut it yeah because there's a lot of people that don't like taking anything over nine or ten weeks you know and sometimes not with everything sometimes you go downhill but with some things if you give it that extra week or two it makes a huge difference really does you know it lets the potency and the flavor and some of the depth come out um and uh you know so I think when Matt was talking about all this death star sucks there was probably a lot of death star that was cut at 10 that needed to go 12 I'm sure there was a lot cut at 7 it needed to go 12 too earlier you cut it you know the the less nuance and depth it'll have so yeah one thing else I wanted to add too is when this accidental cross happened I believe it actually pollinated some other plants as well they had the Indiana bubble gum which was a clone I had at this time as well it was popular around here and they had the dumpster which is a popular one from you know back in the day around here and I think those were both pollinated because when I was at you know the festival Nelson ledges in you know the mid 2000s I was seeing these strains called bubble star and dump star yeah I think there was maybe one or two more that I can't recall right now but I definitely remember seeing a lot of the bubble star um I remember the death star was a little bit difficult to get and I think the sensei star was a little bit difficult to get as well I don't think it was just like lots of it you know yeah kind of like um you mentioned dumpster yeah you mentioned dumpster Ohioans are gonna want to hear about dumpster can you wrap Ohio's dumpster for us what the hell is dumpster does it smell like a dumpster was it really found in a dumpster what's the story bro oh that's I have heard from the horse's mouth I've heard a lot of things over the year and it's it's all generally lines up you know things get left out over the years things get added I guess so take it whatever I say as is but supposedly it was uh there was a couple of guys growing together one of them was known as the professor okay and I was told that they basically had a falling out and they were they were growing this plant and then they had a falling out and they threw this whole room away into a trap the one guy threw the whole room away into a trash can or something and then the other guy went back and got the cut that they were growing out of the dumpster and called it dumpster uh all right yeah so I mean that's that's just what I've heard I'm not a hundred percent yeah I know there's more details I do have some connections I can get more details on that from but uh you know I think what did I what did I say it kind of it kind of reminds me of like the there's a garlic bud pick and you've ever seen that but what is it 1989 yep it's the seed bank right it kind of reminds me a lot of dumpster it's really it's it's almost dead on that leaf and everything it just looks you know just like it yeah uh so I've heard people say it's you know Shiva skunk you know and all five skunk one I mean there was a lot of that sold so yeah I mean definitely possible I mean the other interesting part just real quick before we get off on that tangent is that at the seed bank Neville called this line garlic bud and then when it and then when sensei seeds sold the same line when they bought his company they called it Shiva Shanti right you know um and so there could be some truth to both it could it be you know Pip and I have chatted about it does very much look like sort of an old nl skunk type hybrid of some kind you know what does it smell like what's the turf profile I classify it as like it's like a sweet pineapple with like that toe jam funk there's like a funk in it too you know that's kind of that's kind of like where I lie with it it's it's uh it's good smoke it's decent it's it's I mean to be honest it's just average smoke it's a commercial just typical like a commercial type variety a lot of people did a lot of grows of dumpster in Ohio over the years and oh yeah because it yields like crazy but um it does get big buds it's a little bit prone to mold you gotta watch out um but overall it's I mean it's a staple in Ohio it's been around for 20 years or whatever now so there was a there was a fake one that went around Ohio I think mentioned it in his books it was called chumpster with a CA with a CH chumpster yeah I personally never saw that one but I just figured I would mention it uh and it was mostly run in Toledo back in the day I believe at first and that's like we're like the professor and all that stuff was but I've also heard people say that there was a guy in Columbus and that's where this whole situation happened as well so I'm just not a hundred percent sure but that's kind of where I'm at uh with the dumpster cool yeah how about the um afghani mango I know that's another older classic oh man the afghani mango afghani mango yeah I got that uh I got that around again around mid-2000s uh from my buddy I was one of his favorite ones and I remember going over to his house one day he was living up in Akron and I walk in and I smell this smell I'm like man that smells I mean that is really unique with what are you smoking he's like I'm smoking afghani mango and he was smoking it out of his volcano vaporizer oh nice so he gave me some puffs and I smoked it and the flavor was unbelievable it was just like this like soft mango a little bit uh uh sweet for sure a little bit of like metallic smell in there as well I feel like yeah it was just super interesting and then he you know brought me upstairs and showed me like two or three lights in upstairs bedroom a little window AC or something in a fan and he had uh he had it growing up there and it was just such a unique looking plan I mean I'd really never seen anything like it up until this point I was growing a lot of like kind of more like indica dominant stuff whereas the afghani mango is definitely a little bit more sativa it makes these long spears that kind of like aren't thick but they fill in they're just like long spears and uh and I ran it for ran it for quite a while but it could be finicky uh it does this weird thing it'll stunt out sometimes like kind of like fail to start uh and then it also if the conditions aren't perfect it can tend to like herm a lot or like if one plant in the room is like by the fan constantly getting beat up the whole time like it could herm so I never really did large runs of it it's been a commercial Ohio strain for a long time lots of people have done big big runs of afghani mango and passed it around the state over the years and stuff but it's just uh it's a super unique one I don't know exactly what it is I've you know I've I've seen Angel's Breath and I like I've told you before Matt by Mr. Nice and Angel Heart and that and it kind of looks very similar to that but I know you've mentioned to me that those are relatively recent releases within the past 10 11 years yeah and I've had the afghani mango for you know for longer than that obviously so yeah yeah I guess that would you know that would kind of nullify it but I don't know 100% super unique plant it's been around Ohio for a long time kc 33 maybe always an option um kc mango I'm not sure oh yeah the the kc brain stuff yeah you know that's older and I mean it was it was grown a lot because it was one of the more affordable lines but there was great great stuff in it like amazing stuff in it a lot of breeders ended up knocking it off later on too bc's bc mango is based on that one I'll have to take a look into that yeah yeah it might be another direction yeah I've talked to a lot of people you know a lot of local people people in the week game over the years and I always ask about afghani mango because it's one of the ones that I have the least information about yeah I don't know who made it I don't know if they made it if they bought seeds of it from a company when it came around um it's definitely you know early to mid 2000s areas where I would put it put that one we got to ask khanza where he sourced his seeds see if he has any kind of anything on it you ever talk to him about it no I haven't either to ask him no okay so we go from the the the the we haven't done four way have we um I don't believe we have let's hit four way all right the uh the four way I had um I had originally gotten a plant back in before I don't know the exact date 2014 1516 somewhere around there probably uh I had gotten a plant from a friend of a friend and it was called sensei star and I grew it and I realized I had smoked this before you know but I couldn't it's been so long I couldn't tell you know like is this a sensei star I smoked or you know so so I had grown it for years and I had liked it and I after growing it a couple times I really noticed a lot of similarities to the death star because I think growing death star for ever yeah it kind of has that like little zigzag uh structure it does and some of the aromas in it as well kind of uh kind of are very similar so you know I actually thought for a long time that it actually was the the plant that was used uh to make death star pop but uh recently I found you know I was wrong uh death star I've grown death star s ones I've definitely seen the s1 progeny and it's pretty pretty clear now that they are uh you know sensei star dominant uh so um I feel like it's related the the four way my cut would you know is related somehow whether it's part of sensei star or a component of it was used to make sensei star or something like that you know yeah uh so that's kind of like that's kind of where I where I'm at now with with that I I grew that sensei star for years and then eventually along the way I had gotten plants under different names um such as it's it were the same plant as my sensei star I got it under the name of death star from some people I got it under the name of four way from the guy I got under the name of you know all this different stuff and every time over the years I grow it out I'm like oh my gosh it's the same plant again like why this is the one that you kept getting back is different oh my gosh yeah it was crazy so you know fast forward several years after that a couple years ago I uh I was looking I reached out to a friend of a friend who had a friend who said that they had the Ohio four-way clone that used to go around so I uh I get in contact with him I go over to his house and he's a super cool guy a little bit older and he shows me a jar of the flower and I kind of like you know saw the resemblance I was like almost like this is that same plant again but I wasn't sure and then he took me downstairs and do his little hut and he had like a light with like you know three or four plants and they were in the best shape they had some thrips on them and stuff uh but it just wasn't the best representation so I wasn't a hundred percent sure yet yeah so um so anyway he you know he gave me the cut and I brought him some stuff too because he's from a small circle he doesn't have access to a bunch of stuff so sure I gave him some cool stuff to grow and I went and you know grew this thing out and when we were talking and smoking his flower when I met up with him he told me that he's had it for 20 years and that one of his buddies was a guy that bought the seeds and made the selection back in the day oh wow yeah and he originally said uh you know the guy that I met uh that I got the cut from said that it was from sensei seeds but I had him actually contact his buddy the guy who got him and he confirmed that he said he got him from nirvana oh interesting so yeah um so you know nirvana's description is slightly different from sensei seeds but you know they did a lot of work with other people's lines back in the day so it wouldn't be surprising to me if it was more than likely just sensei's work that they were using that's probably the most you know you know and nirvana was probably I probably would have bought nirvana's over sensei's during you know during those early that early era because nirvana's was always like 90 dollars whereas sensei's was like 240 you know is it right yeah and oh right oh nirvana verifiably took various lines from sensei um and reproed them and made and gave them their own names I mean they famously took nevel's nl2 and called it oasis that's that's passion oh that's dutch passion yeah I mean it was it was very common um and all that and then one thing we probably should mention about the about the sensei star itself is that even though it came out in 1995 uh we still don't know what the heck it is right and he's he's been extremely uh reluctant to mention any parentage as far as uh the guy who owns paradise and you know what else I found interesting was in 95 sensei seeds um re-released the foraway uh I don't know what they mean by that but in 1995 they did and then a year after in 96 I believe was when paradise started and released the sensei star right yeah I believe so it was actually released pretty pretty close together so yeah I don't know I mean it can't prove anything but you know it's just like I said it's possible that uh that foraway was used or that one of the components that make up foraway was possibly used you know and and that's coming through expressing yeah was was afghan t in foraway it took a long time for us to figure out and then it was one of those things that was hiding in plain sight where uh nevel wrote in his 87 update to his catalog that he was about to release this strain called foraway and it was big bud nl one by early pearl skunk one that's right yes yeah and um and so it was another one of those things that like pip and I and others we hunted and hunted and hunted forever looking for any information on what would actually the makeup was um and then it was one of those things that was just like hiding in plain sight if you knew where to look um and so it was honestly one of those like the 90s was a lot of f ones but that was an early polyhybrid um you know because I believe uh I believe nevel released both of those plants that made up foraway as separate strains big bud nl one just became the big bud line mm-hmm and early pearl skunk one I believe got released as early skunk you know so it was already lines he was playing with separately to begin with and then he took two of them and combined them together yeah and there you go and so obviously as a foraway hybrid um it could lean in different directions um and especially amongst the progeny and stuff like that but um yeah so uh I wanted to clarify uh today if you go on their website since he sees labels it as indian by afghanistan by pakistan by skunk one I don't know I don't I don't know when this was released it's not in any of their 90s catalogs um but they did use in 1987 nevel did the up send an update for his 87 catalog right and he said he was gonna you know have a foraway hybrid the next year he comes out with four and more and that's the only year it comes out and then two years go by 89 and 90 and it's not in the catalog and then in 91 since he sees comes along and releases foraway and they use the same exact description that nevel used for his four and more yeah for their same same finish time same verbiage and the description to all that type all that type of stuff so yeah clues like that you know um and you know I mean we don't know like you know there's up there's some other famous cuts out there there's the fairfax foraway that supposedly was from the same line um but you know obviously like if you get a foraway hybrid um it could lean in a number of different directions you know right one thing I wanted to pull on real quick because I wasn't clear on it when you were talking about the the the the bubble star and some of that stuff yeah um was that made with death star pollen or was that made with pollen for maybe like the east coast sour diesel that threw on some of those other plants it probably would be called star it was the sensei star that threw it was the sensei so the sensei star was the was the the dad if you will yes the sensei the sensei star threw the sensei star threw okay so that's where that's where bubble star and some of those other hybrids you were talking about that you would see floating around came from uh yeah it definitely came I feel like it definitely came from that same accidental pollination or it I don't say accidental I've heard that they saw that the sensei star was kind of making pollen and they kind of used it and sprinkled it is what I've heard as well who knows what happened but um but yeah I believe it was made early feminine seed used to be like you know uh you know you know plankett stressed accidental pollen flies and then all of a sudden you have some feminized bag seed right long before we figured out sts or any of these other methods that modern where you're using in modern times you know I don't know Matt's smiling over there or whatever but but yeah I mean you know for old people like me we used to think that that accidental pollination like if you use that you were cheating and it would probably ruin the line because it was made not the natural way that was a big belief back in the day it was a big belief you're like oh you're going to use some herm accident stuff you're going to probably like imprint that into your seed line and you'll never get it out and it'll be worse um so that just goes to show how ignorant we were at the time we were convinced that you know that huh yeah the other day Caleb made a post and I it drives me nuts absolutely nuts when I see this but it's the typical what I call the typical hippie response to like a feminized seed post is like ha see like it was csi posting about a reversal failure right and they're like ha it's because because you were you were messing with nature is what what happened there and then I had to point out you know the nature once these plants intersects it's because man's intervened that they're regular seeds so actually actually if you really want to get technical they're taking it back and it's just like this really bad logical argument that they seem to have in their heads that herming is us being bad with plants we used to be very bro science yeah used to be there used there used to be a lot of bro science and what I mean by that is just stuff that gets passed around in smoking circles and stuff like that and I mean I've talked about it on previous shows where we used to put our best Mexican butt in the resin chamber so it would gain quality you know you put that nice Mexican butt in your resin chamber and you don't step back until the end and then you pull this butt out and you thought that was an improvement so there was a lot of of misinformation in the 90s and early 2000s when the internet and and sort of like you know facts it was basically just a bunch of kids spreading what they heard from older people maybe or reading in high times you know we used to think high times was sort of the Bible they are you know and then you get older and you're like oh man who takes that advice but it was a real era in that regard so you know um yeah so I mean four way uh you know it it ended up being one of your favorite plants it did man it's uh it's just you know super unique super old school you can tell if you've been growing grown a lot of plants you can grow it and look at it and be like yeah that's definitely not from around this time period you know definitely some like 90s weed something like that I wasn't really growing or smoking in the 80s so I didn't see a lot of that stuff but I've seen enough stuff from you know back in the day to know when something's a little bit older and you know different than cookies would you say that the the four-way the Ohio four-way is skunky at all yes that's interesting because that Fairfax four-way like the one time when I got to because it was super dutted when I got it but the one time I got to like get any hint of smell out of it you could smell like what direction it was going it's like oh wow this does have potential to be as skunky as they've talked about it really does so I was wondering if the other it's cut does it's the I don't know the the four-way that I have is it's not as skunky as like the Death Star you know it doesn't it's not like that uh it's it's milder than the Death Star yeah but it's got more like other stuff in it you know it's like yeah like I don't know how does that old world likes those old world smells you know like stuff like that hashy spicy uh you know skunky stuff going on in there yeah definitely the other one was like um had oniony in it too that was the other smell I could really smell yeah definitely but there's some stuff about that four-way certain things about it that remind me of stuff you'd see from afghan tea stuff so I always found that interesting based on what's in it I don't really see afghan tea in it unless afghan tea's in skunk one or something like that which is something that I'd always like to dig further into yeah I mean it it uh it was it was one of those confusing things for a really long time because neville was one of the only guys that just sort of laid out what was in his stuff all that second wave of breeders pretty much intentionally obscured genetics which were like his people like us who are a little younger younger than that and historians trying to figure out what they used even 25 30 years later some of those people don't want to just come off it like what would it what would it matter if luke came out and you know and said this is what I used to make sensei star in 1995 yeah I don't like big secret whoa can't let that out you know like and but to this day it's still kind of like what's it what is it you know as of this year as recent as this year he will not say unfortunately I'd love to have him on to talk about it but yeah we've been getting declined that's that's been around robin and you know it's one of those things where for a lot of people it's like if it doesn't benefit me why would I say it and it's like do I want to say that I like ripped it off from neville or I got it from this other person that I never gave credit to or whatever the story may or may not be they'd prefer it to remain a mystery because it's not like anyone's going to go and like find the parents 25 years later 30 years later and like recreate it I mean that ship is sailed while we're in this territory let's hit my personal favorite the one like the the the bud that made me fall in love with pips grows the silver pearl let's talk about that girl where did she come from hmm the silver pearl uh came from a local guy that actually got a hold of me on ig I think I met him I think we have a mutual friend as well um at the time and uh I'm not going to say either their names but yeah that's that's who I received it from uh preface is saying like our group has had this clone for a long time back in the day and I never grew it because I was so busy tied up with lemon g and death star like that was yeah my show that was my mo so like I didn't have time for anything else I already had 10 or 12 plants that was more than enough for me being a cropper yeah uh so I kind of always passed on it I would smoke it you know my friends would have it they'd bring it over and they'd bring it to our little you know cannabis cuffs that we had and stuff back in the day up here in Akron um but I never really grew it and then as we got older you know how things go stuff gets lost it's not in the circle anymore and uh and I wanted to give it a rip so you know I was able to get in touch with this guy and he uh he had gotten it from an older gentleman who lived down southern Ohio I believe and had it for quite a while and then uh you know I eventually acquired it from him you know gave him some stuff seeds and I forget what else but uh it was it and a funny story is like a week later I got another plant uh that I was looking for I was looking for that g13 we were talking about earlier and someone gave it to me and I grew it up and I knew before I even flowered it it was silver pearl so I got silver pearl twice in the same week from or basically people from different people yeah one thing I'll say that's interesting about that cut is that and not everything does this but that cut grown out looks amazingly like some of the oldest pictures of silver pearl that you can find I mean you know you don't want to use the word dead ringer too much or anything like that but boy uh visually does it look like it's it's just you know just walked out of the catalog and into your collection it really does it looks like if you were to look at at hips silver pearl cut and you were to look at some of those old pictures of silver pearl and you didn't know which was which you'd have a hard time telling the difference in some ways it really looks it really it really does resemble so that's not proof or anything like that but it certainly helps right right uh you know silver pearl is just such a special plant it's not like a narcotic hitter like I I prefer uh I respect all cannabis regardless of whether I enjoy it or not you know I gave it all a chance I enjoy all the different aspects of it even if I'm not smoking it you know yeah but but the silver pearl really grew on me uh when I first smoked it I was kind of I don't know off put by it because I wanted something you know hard hitting but after after smoking it for a while and giving it a chance and seeing what it's really about you know smoking it fresh when you wake up in the morning uh you know nothing in your system you're fresh uh it's just I mean it's amazing it's really just really uplifting motivating happy you know bright buzz uh on a you know it's it's very more of like a sativa it's almost like what you think of like a sativa right but on a plant with this shortened spot and finishes in you know 50 days yeah yeah so it's I call the high electric maybe not not in the sense that it's um like giving you a rush but it's bright and happy to me very bright and happy is the best way I could describe it and the and the scent profile like me and not so describe it completely opposite and and it's really just two different takes on it but it's because of how complex it is how would you describe it oh I have a description I wrote of it somewhere I'll try to remember some but the basic smells are it's it's like a it's kind of like a sweet melon it's got a little bit of baby poo in there like that funk it's got the like the funky funk foot funk I guess a little bit type thing it's got uh some like anise like almost like a black licorice type you know thing so um so those are kind of not so loves the anise yeah no like yeah I see for me when I smell it I smell like pink bubblegum is the first smell I smell and oh yeah you D just grew it outdoor and I smelled it and I smelled it again and the first smell I smell is pink bubblegum but then there's like funky skunk background but not white it's it's got so much going on Matt that confuses a lot of people a lot of people have a hard time really like nailing it uh because there's just so much there's so much to it it's it's not like some of these there's just so many different I mean you can sit there and smell it for 10 minutes straight and and pick out all the different it's uh it's just really really unique really awesome you know short flowering indica like I said 50 days not the biggest yielder in the world you got to defoliate it it's a little bit you know like leafy thrust fan leaves everywhere big fat indica and but it's got a great yeah I've got a great structure and you don't even have to I don't think I've ever netted or staked a silver pro plant in my life regardless of how big it's been I mean I grow up into like five gallons I don't go bigger than that but you know they it just so they support themselves like you don't even have to mess with them at all so good outdoor stuff uh one of the things that's interesting about it is that because Pip mentioned it is that when he says baby poo I also get a strong baby poo smell off it but just to clarify like it smells to me like infant baby poo like when all they're all they're on is mother's milk like they haven't gotten any kind of real food like because I have a number of kids or whatever so like you know you're familiar with that he's a greater but there's a very different smell to baby poo when they're one two three four months old whatever and all they're eating is mommy's milk right then when they get actual real food so it doesn't smell like some kind of like gnarly kid poop it smells like this weird it's almost like one of those things to me where like if it wasn't in cannabis you would guarantee say it doesn't smell good but there's like smells in cannabis that smell weird but you like them but they're in weed and it's kind of caught that skunky sweet sickly baby poo and it doesn't sound maybe that doesn't sound too appetizing but it really is oh I think it's a beautiful smell there is in the progeny um there is a little bit of mint and I could smell a slight hint of it in the mom but I got some nice uh nice selections I made that are like extremely like super minty you know wow it was uh it really you know threw me off guard surprised me I also think it smells like a little bit some of them like a like a melanie a melon kind of you know it's just I mean it's got a lot going on man so what silver pearl is supposed to be according to neville is nl five uh female the famous clone crossed with a early pearl skunk one male right and that means silver pearl I mean I go ahead go ahead and one of the things since since we were just talking about four way I don't have any proof um I don't know how many different males neville decided to use of early pearl skunk one but it's somewhat possible that it could have the same dad as four way it's I mean anything's possible man you know because it's like it it's the same mix from the same guy yeah it's you know the dad is early pearl skunk one in both hybrids is it a different male but it's definitely the same wine you know and that early pearl is a early girl crossed with polyana yeah um and that that's you know that's what you know they used to cross I thought it was the nl five and it had nl five skunk one male I had it written down like that because I wasn't able to find exactly what it is yeah but it's the same we have good thing about strain base coming out oh thank god yeah it's it's the nl five by by early pearl skunk one you know so it's a three-way hybrid uh silver pearl and what's interesting is since Matt and I have been kind of doing a deep dive on some of the early girl early pearl stuff is you don't really realize it but secretly it was one of the most common things never used throughout his lines he loved it he loved that early pearl um he loved he loved mixing and into different stuff and so it's it doesn't really get talked about that much but it was one of his favorites and where did the early girl come from northern california northern california yeah and polyana huh we just recently found out um that one of them one of them I can't remember if it's early girl or polyana I think it was polyana maybe it was early girl one of them is not from rob or sam and I always thought both were from rob rob yeah no that's the there's a lot of assumptions so early girl I believe is a is an afghan Mexican and then they took that and they crossed that to polyana which is an early columbian by mexican and that's early pearl um and we also learned that that sweetness uh is very was very prevalent in the early pearl and it was one of neville's favorite things and he wanted to recreate it really badly later in his life because he enjoyed he really enjoyed sort of that double mexican afghan blend that was early pearl and that's why it showed up in so many different hybrids he had and later in life later in life he was working a specific wahakan line I don't remember where he sourced it from specifically it was later but um he felt that that was very similar to what he saw in the early pearl if I remember correctly and this is there's a there's a gentleman that that matt and I chat with on IG and he his family used to grow early pearl in the 90s for about five years up in my neck of the woods and he's been kind of on the hunt to find he got lost in a bus sadly but he did say he sent me not knowing that we're buddies he sent me this pic you had posted a number of years ago of an early of a silver pearl s1 and he goes man does this look like my parents plant oh boy he did he did you know so uh take that for what it's worth but he go but there was uh that yeah he showed me this picture and it's from you you know and he's like this one really looks like my parents old cut of early pearl so who knows you know yeah you never know I mean it's it's it's it's pretty unique plant once you've been around it and you've seen some progeny you could kind of tell um you know what's related if it's related or not so I have no doubt that you know that's what he had and he thought that mine looked like is and it's also one of the rare things that pip doesn't take 84 days it doesn't take 84 days it's done before most of my plants are even halfway done flowering yeah it's so fast 50 55 or something like that it's like I mean you could pull it before 50 if you wanted to it's just uh it's it's so quick I feel like I throw it in the flower room and feed it for two weeks and then you know so it's like it's basically like a true seven-weeker yeah oh man it's super quick yeah super quick I mean some of them go into the 50s you know 55 days or whatever but some of the progeny was done in 46 47 days you could probably pull it 45 if you lived in 1990 like they always yeah yeah you know you see these seed descriptions and flowering times and you're like oh it's done in you know 60 days and really freedom 35 bro I mean it was the flowering time on super skunk 49 49 you know just getting started on indoor and seeing those 50-day strains and being like I could get eight crops a year you know yeah there's trade off to everything it was super enticing you know you're just thinking oh my gosh uh I didn't realize that it was a bit it was a bit of marketing back then claiming everything took six or seven weeks but you know it was and then I realized how rare it was to find something that developed that quickly that I actually liked right so so we got through uh the ode to Neville let's get to Q Q 36 oh boy Q 36 a Luda Q 36 is a wild one um again I don't have an exact date but it's somewhere like 2010 11 ish 2009 to 2011 somewhere in there I would probably put it so it's relatively kind of like new kid on the block out here for Ohio and it's uh when I first got it it was in like 20 20 13 14 I don't know I'd have to look but it uh it when I first got that thing I couldn't believe it it I was looking at the leaves on the thing it looked like it was like came out of the Jurassic period or something you know dinosaurs walking around so I mean super weird uh super dark Afghani like super unique leaf shape and so I've you know veg it up and I flowered it out and it's definitely I could tell immediately it was definitely related to Bubba but it's not like anything that I've seen crossed with Bubba before I don't they say the lineage is it's basically Bubba Kush crossed with Hawaiian Indica and there was there was some work done um in that line they they had bred that line together uh a second time they have twos or the BX twos or whatever they did they had a plant called the nuke that went around for a while and it was decent um but eventually that kind of got thrown to the side once they used the nuke to make the next generation that you know the Q 36 came from ultimately and that thing just blew everything out of the water so that nuke everybody kind of like threw that to the wayside and just focused on the Q 36 so it's like a Bubba like a Bubba Kush but it's like creamy like super creamy Bubba it doesn't it doesn't have like typical Bubba leaves it's got these short little like like uh almost like uh like clover or I don't know how to describe it they're they're very they're just very unique I have pictures on my instagram page if you want to look um the the resin it put it just pumps out resin it's I mean almost looks like like uh like one of these hype strains that you see now it's just so caked up and resin yeah um the smaller plants don't tend to yield too well but when I put them in like three your gallons or five gallons and got them nice and vegged up they do pretty good yielding it smells like creamy Bubba and anise like that uh again like a black licorice type like thing in there as well yeah and it's uh it's a low it's a low tester it tests it like 15% I think my buddies some people have had it tested a little bit higher but generally test below 20% but it is very just like Bubba very medical very good a good effect it's definitely smokes like it's over 20% oh the flavors phenomenal like I said creamy Bubba um like if you're a Bubba lover like this one is the this is the ultimate it's like primo Bubba oh dude it is Pip has shared it in our little tight circle of friends and I would say almost universally um everyone regards it almost as an improved Bubba yeah you know like better maybe even maybe even better than Bubba would be a way to describe it like you know like everything they like about Bubba and more right that's yeah that's how I would say it and and more everything you like about Bubba and more Bubba kind of if you don't hit it right it doesn't really turn out well doesn't yield well it's a little bit leafy and it can come out a little bit like soapy sometimes I feel like so uh this plant there's none of that you don't I mean even if you run it bad it's not coming out soapy it's not coming out crappy like it's still gonna do good so it's definitely like an improvement I mean I wouldn't call it above like a Bubba cut right but it's uh it's definitely like a newer age version of like Bubba Kush that's the fire yeah improved improved version of the Bubba so the only reason why I say that is because most people that really love to grow Bubba for their head end up growing Q36 for their head and being totally happy with that plant and not having to grow Bubba for their head because they get everything they like about Bubba right and and a little bit more from it so that's pretty high price really and just to clarify a lot of people get confused the the eludium is the Q36 it's this it's the Q30 eludium Q36 space modulator it's the the gun the marvin the marvin the martian used to use on the cartoon so that's the full name is you know eludium Q30 36 space modulator there you go there you go and what was it there was a weird breeding trait that I had where something about seed making how it makes seeds yeah it doesn't make seeds I've tried to seed the thing numerous times and the same thing happens I get you know 20 maybe if I'm lucky 30 40 seeds out of each pound 30 percent of them are premature fully like big seeds but just white and hollow and and then the other ones some are mutated and then you sprout what you have left from that you know whatever 10 or 12 seeds you get out of that 15 maybe and you sprout them and then summer are like mutant like super mutant there's like maybe 25 30 percent of them from what I've seen yeah have been like mutant or runty or slow you know and then a small percentage of them though are are really nice I bet I bet so it's been it's a lot it's it's a tough pill to swallow when you try to pollinate a plant and you got to rip apart a pound of weed to get you know 10 or 15 seeds that you can grow and then only a quarter of those are going to be something decent and only a percentage of those are going to be something amazing yeah by the time you were done slicing and dicing how much came out I was thinking to myself so he gets five seeds he likes I did cross it to the silver pearl and I grew those seeds and I did find an awesome selection a really really awesome selection and it kind of made it worth it for me I've posted it on my instagram page it's does it make seeds extremely resinous yeah yeah it does so it's extremely resinous maybe even more so than the q 36 it's just absolutely caked on there I'll get that picture over to you as well yeah yeah um but I I made two selections they're both very nice one is just super unique it kind of has the um I like that that like black licorice like like anis or I don't know how you pronounce it but I like that and stuff and I like it in the q 36 and the so one of the selections I made has it's kind of like a lot of that and less of like the other aspects it's kind of like focused in on to it and it's not like the most ideal play it's not a huge yeilder it's kind of wiry but it's got good flour and it's got that flavor and that smell and that taste that I like so I keep it around I don't think a lot of people understand that too when it comes to reversals um is that uh because there's other things you've done too like with your east coast sour diesel cut reversing it where like it works but it doesn't really give you enough seed that you can like even share it with friends it's almost like you it it gives you 15 or 30 or 40 seeds or something so you can't even pack yeah you can't make packs of it it's like even difficult to share with homies because you get so few and it took so much effort to do um so there's just certain varieties out there that for whatever reason don't don't reverse well or don't take seed don't take pollination well um and it makes it really hard to make hybrids with them you know now speaking of hybrid making let's get into where you're at now where where you're at currently as of the time this podcast is going to air where i'm at in my seed making yeah uh well I am at uh the point where I have already made the rubber city and I did a rigorous selection process trying to narrow down what I feel like were the best plants out of that run yeah and um and I've grown them and cropped them and and just done everything I could to really like make sure they're what I want what I want to use and uh and then I have uh I the one is the 10 the rubber city number 10 and the other one is the rubber city number four so maybe before you go any further just talk for a second about what made the rubber city okay yeah that sounds good and we'll go forward from there yeah the the rubber city was the sour diesel reversed on to the um since you start at the time but the four way yeah now and that's what uh what I created the original rubber city with so that's then you hunted that a bunch so I grew out probably right around 50 seeds I can't remember the exact number I grew out about 50 seeds of it and these are all females that you're all female all females yeah all females so big and they are they it was just absolutely beautiful I couldn't have I couldn't have asked for better results um I ended up cloning about half the run for backups just because everything was looking so good halfway through I usually take my clones off the flowering plants you know a small branch or something like that yeah just so that they aren't constantly growing they're just re-vegging in a stasis mode for a while until everything's finished yeah um when you keep a lot of moms you kind of have to right you have to figure out these little tactics to oh yeah have things outgrow each other and keep things in a stasis while being healthy at the same time yeah right so I um so I I definitely selected about half of them and then I did another run immediately after the seed run was done just to double check because uh some people may not notice this but uh seed plants seed plants versus clone plants of the same exact copy of the genetic is can drastically differ oh yeah yeah um I mean maybe not drastically but they can differ yeah they're good amount you know like uh seed plants usually tend to be more vigorous and yield more and you know do you guys agree with that oh yeah and her me too right right right they got yeah uh so I grew out a bunch of those I made selections the half of them and then I did about uh probably four maybe five rounds over the course of like a year and a half of narrowing it down I would just grow you know each grow I would narrow it down from like you know half of them to 20 to 15 to 10 and like once I got to like I remember getting to like eight of them that I had to choose between it was just like they were all so good that they all would have been good you know I had to like nitpick like this one this one structure is a little bit floppier than this one but they're all still fire you know yeah super good so I just kind of splitting hairs there you go yeah I was splitting hairs so but eventually I had I had narrowed it down after several different runs to the rubber city number 10 and the rubber city number four go figure I would find two of my best selections in the first 10 seeds huh yeah right right out of the first I popped 15 and the number 20 was banging so everybody knows he resisted the urge to name it rubber city 189 he didn't play uh his his effort to make it seem like that you know so uh props on that one yeah I mean it is what it is I mean I'm not concerned with the numbers you know I post pictures people know what I do people know what I run like and we actually I remember when you were doing those selections and like the first round you're like oh my god guys I don't even know how I'm going to cut through these let alone pick one or two you know yeah I remember I mean the other part of it that was funny too was he would pick would call me and be like so I smoked two or three examples and I'm now ruined and I don't think I can judge anymore for a while because I'm already so baked I kind of have to chill out before I can try anymore yeah you know because that's what happens too like testing a large number of things sometimes it's like you can only test two or three a day you know because you wake up and you try a few and then all of a sudden your days changed yeah yeah it's hard to keep a fresh palate and a fresh head you know it's a slow process to do it the right way you got to do it over the course of days weeks you know months if you got enough stuff I guess right so I'll say one thing and then I'll shut up and let Pip talk but one of the things I think that's cool that not very many people out here in breeding do anymore but we have some friends that do is that they make a hybrid like rubber city and then they hunt the hybrid and then they select favorites from that and then they do further work right a lot of breeding today is sort of one step one off one and done you make it you release it it's there till it's gone and you know what we're about to talk about right now is Pip you know he made his some of his favorite selections and then he he you know he used those to make more things so let's start off with rubber band the rubber band yeah okay rubber band is the rubber city number 10 so all this stuff on the on the rubber city drop is my rubber city 10 selection that I reversed so that would be the rubber city 10 cross to triangle kush okay so I did that I named it rubber band as it's supposed to be said all is one word kind of like headband rubber band headband it's kind of my take on it you know sour diesel og kush the rubber city 10 is a is definitely more of a sour diesel leaning looking type of plant even though I consider it multiple times better than sour diesel I'll smoke it over sour diesel any day of the week yeah oh yeah yep so that's that's what the that's what the rubber band is I did a I did a couple other ones I did the through the chem D in there everybody loves the chem D and it's already got those those funky dirty like you know yeah really really gassy and skunky type of like smells to it so I figured that would be a good one to throw against it and and just produce some nice yielders and that's called dirty rubber and that's going to be your that's going to be the dirty rubber yep I like that name great name yep yeah and um you have the the star dog you use the Corey Haim cut for rubber I did yeah like I said in the description it the I've always liked the star dog that star dog cut it's a high yielder I pulled off some nice runs with it before it makes big flowers super gassy you know JJ did some good work with really good work with that line I enjoy that plant it's a great cropper and it's still got gas and and it shares a lot of similar traits with my rubber city tennis you know they're not the same plant by any means but they both are very vigorous growing big they're that commercial style growth structure and stretch and bud that you want you know like the coal is and so I just I figured you know they'd be fun to cross them together and and and see what kind of craziness comes out of those things you know yeah and I see you have some rubber city backcross one and rubber city backcross two let's talk about this yeah two different versions of the back crosses I I crossed the sour back or the rubber city 10 to the sour and I also crossed it to the four way so you kind of have a choice you can kind of pick something that you're going to want to look want to see a little bit more four way or you're going to see want something that you're going to see a little bit more sour you know yeah the gold coast hash plant all right gold coast hash plant let's go yeah so the gold coast hash plant is my rubber city 10 selection cross to death coast sister so some of you people are familiar with my death coast it makes a lot of really good extracts especially solvent lists it's popular it's popular it's really it's it's really loudest should I've ever had and there's it it produces bunches of it so I run it over my t-shirt screens and save jars of it and send it to friends for a wow factor yeah and so that their wives can scream at them and why the house smells like a skunk yep yep it's for real it's just for real uh so uh yeah but anyway the the death coast was out of the the the bc one generation I did I crossed sour diesel and dust star and made a selection and that was the popular one at the time but a lot of people don't know that I made a secondary selection as well yeah which was definitely a more sour type of looking plant and you know I enjoyed it was a little bit different than death coast and I've been smoking it for a long time and uh eventually I started um I was making death coast hash and I said oh I'll make hash with the the death coast sister too this time and see how it does because every time I break it up you know something's hashy when you break it up for a joint and you see you can just see it all fall onto the table you know you move the pile of weed a little bit and there's there's a line of hash left you know after you break down yeah just dump so um and I've always liked the plant so anyway it just you know I broke that thing up and it was it was dumping big time big big time and I was just I just the smoke was phenomenal I was like I gotta do something with this thing this is this is too good so I cross it to my River City 10 and uh when it was seeded up um breaking it up when it was even because seeded plants are you know notoriously thought to not produce as much resin right um you there yeah yeah okay yeah seeded plants are thought to not really produce as much resin right well this thing dumped just as good if not better seeded yeah as it does unseeded and it just I I've got the pictures on my IG you can see the gloves it's just after every couple ounces two three ounces breaking it up with your hands the gloves are just so caked that they're falling apart and ripping like you have to switch your gloves and it's pretty wild it's pretty wild stuff and is that what is the deathcoaster is that what we would call like internally the sd uh bx7 yes yes that's what yeah in our group that was like the first the first name on the label the sour diesel bx number seven plant yeah yeah not not bx7 but yeah number seven yeah yes yes yeah um so I've had that one for a while it's you know pride in my pride enjoys um I only I the flower is nice a lot of people request the flower I personally prefer to smoke the hash over the flower same with the deathcoast um there I like the flower just the flower is good but I love I love my hash and when I got a plant that dumps like this you know that's when yeah that's what I'm using it for and that's kind of what I created it for is for uh to to be like a hash plant you know I'm I'm shocked at this I don't know why I mean because you're you're this is one of the cuts you are real open with about sharing yeah I don't know why that this didn't hit the like boom past the hype market and just shoot to the top because of how much it dumps like uh for resin production extracts how loud it is like some people will smell this as as straight up skunk I think some people like I smell more burnt rubber with that back end but to a lot of people this is going to be one of the skunkiest things they've ever smelled strangely I think the skunk comes out stronger in the hash definitely yeah yeah that's for sure you know and I think that happens with a number of amplified yeah uh the skunkiness is amplified and hashish yeah it really it really is it's uh I love my hash man yeah make good hash too what else we got let's see uh talk about the premium rubber yes premium rubber is one of my pride and joy creations uh that is both of my rubber sitting selections crossed together um you still there yeah okay so the four and the ten yeah the four and the ten uh crossed together and those are my two favorite plants that's all I smoke really uh I you know I smoke silver pearl I smoke I throw mix other stuff in but my daily smoke for the past four years has been pretty much the river city ten or the river city four the river city number ten is more of a high like higher yielder than the four like as far as like bigger buds I shouldn't say I mean slightly higher higher yielder but it's bigger buds it's more along the sour side of the spectrum but it's still got all the gas and skunk and onion and rubber it's got all that stuff in it but um and it's like the high yielder so it's kind of like the all-star so I look at that is like that my commercial the commercial all-star and then I have the number four which is like my head stash all-star even though I smoke on both the same but the my head stash one is a little bit less sour diesel more like uh it's got the sour diesel it's got all the the gasiness all the skunkiness all the everything but it's got a lot of uh aromas and potency from the four-way cut so it's it's got it's very very hashy like it burns um it when you take a hit off a bowl and you set the bowl down that bowl just keeps burning a little trail of smoke off of it like when you're smoking hash out of a bowl right yeah uh but with just the weed it like that's you know and it tastes like hash and it is just one of the most potent plants I put it right there next to the Death Star you know it's it's it's just uh you know it might surpass it I I really it's so I don't know man it's my favorite plant that that I've ever made and I've ever selected and I'll probably have it with me till I go to my grave yeah yeah if I can kill it I'm still partial to the pearl but this stuff for people looking for like those volatile sulfur compounds right this is uh just a special plant such a special plant but don't forget about his pearl less ones than he's got because those are pretty phenomenal too so I have no doubt uh people are going to find some extremely nice plants in all not all of this of course but especially the premium rubber uh with that four being crossed in there um you know the sky's the limit I mean there could be some some serious unicorns pulled out of that thing I think uh and um so that's kind of one that I that I really I really take a lot of pride in I like that one and then I have the the last one would be the good year which is the rubber city number 10 s ones as well uh crossed to cross to itself and um and those will be those will be extremely high yielding they will be more along the lines of sour but a lot of them are more uh the rubber city 10 is more it's more dense than a sour but it's not like dense like indica dense it's just yeah not as loose as like sour is and um and it's easier to grow sour is a finicky plant definitely I mean you can grow it and get it to come out okay but to get it to come out 110 percent like you really got it you know you gotta it's really easy it's really easy to make boofy sour to oh yeah oh yeah I've seen a lot of bad sour that that was actually sour but just bad it's easy to screw it up I'm guilty I've done it before you know I definitely have myself um but it's just sour is just such a tough plant and that's kind of one of the reasons I wanted to do this is just because it's these plants are I feel like better than sour and and they are easier to grow than sour they're not as finicky and sensitive and all that kind of stuff and I feel like you know people say clones lose vigor over the years and stuff like that I didn't have sour diesel in the 90s so I don't know what it was like back then but uh today it's still a nice plant and vigorous and it makes a good yield but it's gotten nothing on the on the river city 10 like it's just this the rivers like we were talking about how a luteum is like the new boba like this the river city number 10 is basically like how I look at it it's the new upgraded version of sour diesel I know the guys in our group are running it like that too oh yeah they're using it and working it into lions is their new sour of bitter and crybaby and those guys yeah one thing maybe that I thought we we could mention real quick before we run out of time here is that the when Pip was just talking about uh you know some of these hybrids he actually did something that I think is really cool and it's kind of it's actually super rare which is most times when people make feminized hybrids they're either out crossing it to a totally different line or they are s1ing it and one of the rarest things is to uh make feminized seed from two different examples from the same line yeah right so making something like the rc10 by the rc4 is actually something that's super rare it's actually a feminized rubber city line right yeah it's for it's further work and it's one of the rarest things that you'll see on the market because almost all feminized reversals like I said are either s1s or out crosses to something different it not line work there's very little feminized line work in a way so I don't know exactly know what you'd call rc10 by rc4 like how you do exactly f1r you know that's what we call it what f1r f1 reversal just f2 yeah I mean it's the second generation of rubber city yeah I mean it's a it's a reversal it's in the same line so it's it's in crossing it in a sense too it's just it's a pure rubber city line isn't it f1 it's not it's not an f1 it would be an f2r because it is a totally different clone yeah f2r yeah you're right but I just wanted to point out that in in in feminized seed it's that that line is one of the rarest things which it's line work but made feminized style it's not an out cross and it's not an s1 it's not inbred it's you know it's two full sisters crossed to each other which doesn't happen that often yeah I've seen it happen quite a bit lately I think people are finally starting to catch on to stuff like that um and if if my theory is correct about uh the super skunk trait the afghan tea trait being a a a was it double recessive then every time you cross to the afghan tea types together you're reinforcing that trait and you're getting those volatiles sulfur compounds like just stack it and stack in that's what I think's going on and like this is that ultimate example of that I mean if you want some of its parents or some of its some of its rarest stuff that could be in the line to pop up that would probably be the line to look through yeah oh yeah that I mean like I said man there is going to be I mean I haven't done a ton of that line yet I've just done small populations but the uh you know eventually I would like to throw down a couple hundred seeds of of premium rubber and the good year and even some of the the the bc work you know yeah um and just really go through them like the right way unfortunately like I in my position you know up until this point I've only been able to test like 50 plants around 50 plants of each line that I make yeah and you know that's done me pretty good that's given me some really nice selections oh yeah surprisingly uh you know I really didn't think it would at first when I first started all this I didn't think it was going to be that easy I figured I'd have to look through a thousand seeds to to find that one you know and sometimes you do I feel like you know you probably do if you're popping haze maybe right so I had to troll Tom I mean sometimes you get lucky and you find it in five sometimes you find it in 50 sometimes it takes multiple rounds because you didn't find exactly what you were hunting for so it just is you know it's it's a law of it's a roll the dice and a law of averages yeah 50 has been good for me like I said I have found some amazing seeds and are amazing plants and and 50 seed populations um you know uh you know you do 50 seeds of premium rubber or the good year or something like that and I mean we're talking you're going to be seeing everything those lines have to offer that's I mean you're going to find you're going to find some really really really nice stuff you don't need to pop 100 seeds you don't even really need to pop 50 you know like you just you know get a few packs and that's another thing I'd suggest if anybody's interested in like figure out what line you want and um and buy multiple packs yeah am I here that's a mistake I made early on in my in breeding is uh I would go to Amsterdam and I would buy like 20 different things instead of buying a bunch of packs of a few different things yeah and having more to look through because I got excited um so sometimes having more seeds of one line is better than having you know one pack of eight different things also from a breeders perspective when I get orders in and since I'm the one filling orders and I think you know Pip's going to be too when we see someone old order multiple packs of one line um like 99% of the time I'm going to hook them up with like multiple packs of other lines too because I know they're doing serious stuff I know they're being serious about what they're doing so I'm more likely to do stuff like they can put in free stuff and you know surprisingly it's it's kind of rare not very many people do that would you agree it is that rare yeah no it is that rare huh yeah it's definitely that rare and that's why when I see it I'm like yes I'm going to hook this dude up they're serious yeah people know what they're doing people that are on a mission they know the string they want they know they want to find the one so they drop the money on it they make the investment and you know it doesn't matter what it costs as long as you get the plant that plant you can make the skies the limit whatever however much money you want because you have that plant for the rest of your life you know it doesn't matter if that seed costs $20 or $30 or $40 whatever you know hell that plant will pay itself back when you grow it from seed um and then you have it forever so it's always nice to find that special one so anyway if you if you're gonna if you're looking at the menu you know just uh just pick the line or two or whatever that you're interested in and uh and get a few packs of it you know two packs you're gonna you're gonna be happy with all the plants obviously but it's a lottery it's a numbers game when you grow seeds as everybody knows um like I said I got lucky with my number 10 and number four they were in the first 10 seeds of uh of a larger progeny you know yeah it's just the roll the dice sometimes uh but um but you're gonna be happy I mean you're gonna be happy with anything you get that's crossed to the River City 10 they're all gonna be really nice plants of course there's always some better than others um but like I said it's just a numbers game grab you know two three packs uh that should that should be enough for most people if you're like extremely serious you know um and you really just want to guarantee you're gonna find like just you know one two or three or more awesome like insane blow your mind stuff then uh you know make the investment and get you get you at least like yeah 30 seeds 40 something like that if you can afford it but it's not for everybody um what now that's my advice if they want to get any of these how do they get a hold of you um they I will be uh doing the release this Tuesday at uh what time did I say it was let me check my notes here real quick uh yeah Tuesday January 31st 6 p.m pacific and 9 p.m eastern time all right Tuesday January 31st yep okay I put the wrong date on the back bumper but thankfully we're covering it up so he can't see it I was like okay yep good job stoner and they will be able to get those um you can go to the link in my bio on on either on my souvenir seatco page or my pips weed page and there's a link there to take you to a url where you can view the menu and everything and read all the instructions and then once you made your uh your choice then you'll just email um I believe it was I just made the email souvenir seatco no actually not souvenir seatco if you have any questions for me but the people running the the sale and everything is not me so oh that's only order related questions on there and that email or yeah that that email will be the rubber city drop at proton mail dot com so rubber city drop at proton mail dot com once you're uh once you've looked at the menu and you have your order ready then all the instructions are out that url and you can get a hold of us and uh and we'll get you set up nice and good all right that's awesome so yeah you also have your instagram your instagram page where you can find all these pictures of all these amazing plants uh what's your instagram uh my instagram personal instagram is uh pips weed all one word and then my other seed company instagram is souvenir seatco okay and yeah um thanks for coming on and talking about all these old strains and and what you got going on now we'll have to have you come back on sometime soon you know look forward to it to to talk about some of the shenanigans we've all gotten up too this went so fast so I figured you know there's so much more we could talk about I just want to say one more thing um I'll tell all my supporters out there and everybody who's supported me through this venture and everything I really do appreciate it I put a lot of care and passion and love into what I do and it brings me a lot of joy to see other people be happy from you know growing my work and uh and and my strains and to hear all the stories and um it just it just brings me a lot of joy so I love doing what I'm gonna do what I do uh I'm gonna be taking a break for a while I don't have any plans in the near future but I will be back at some point I promise and uh you know I love you guys thanks for all the support yeah man thanks for coming on and uh letting everybody hear from you it's uh it's an honor yeah thanks for having me on the show Matt one of the things I'll say to that is that in addition to the history part that Matt and I did uh one of the one of the main reasons why we did this podcast was to give people a chance to listen to how like weed nerds like like to chit chat about various different things and so Pip is a is a very good friend who we've been chatting for a long time in private years and years chatting about different stuff and so it's it's cool to bring personal friends on who have get a chance to talk about their passion their work what they're interested in and I think that like the way he breeds is pretty neat because he doesn't really do any hype stuff too much he kind of like if you listen to this podcast he kind of like collected strains over the years and he picked favorites and then he decided what happens if I mix these favorites and that is sort of like the basis for what he's been doing so it's a very personal approach in my opinion um he bred things he liked which is something I always tell people to do pick things you like and try to find things you like you know and don't care about what the rest of the world thinks find things that you think are interesting and I think that this list uh definitely represents that in a big way and I think that's a big positive and it doesn't matter if your family gets upset that you hang out at rest stops and with that this will be the end of the show thanks it was like it was like I was connected with everything around me all of a sudden I just started questioning everything I'd ever been told you know by the time by the time I got high that very first time when it started to hit me and I'm like well that's got got got dude her skirt from up north or cut upon it