 Hello, everybody and welcome back to Esoteric Atlanta. I am like so excited about this, I'm just going to call it a conversation, a little less formal. I am here with Doug Kramer from the dazed but not confused YouTube channel. How are you doing today, Doug? Good, Bryce. Thanks for having me on. I'm so excited. Let me go ahead. Before we even break into it, guys, I know if you're in my private group on Signal, we've already, I've already shared Doug's channel. But if you're not, I'm going to go ahead and share it again. Go ahead and make sure you are subscribed. All of Doug's links will be down in the description box below. I know this is your second channel, Doug, correct? I think it's the third one, Bryce. I lost count. I think it's on my number three, maybe four. I really lost count. It got shut down originally. I started in June 2020 and it got, the first one got shut down in January 2023. And I think there's been two cents then. So, you guys, we really want to, want to help him out. You have a, now you have a backup channel on Rumble and BitShoot too, correct? Yes. I finally got off my lazy ass and did that because of this very recent. Yes. It's, it's very complicated. It adds more work, but I have my backup on Rumble too. So, you guys, I would suggest since Doug struggles with a lot of the same things I do with trying to speak the truth, but being on YouTube, I would go ahead and just make sure you're subscribed to his backup channels too, just in case one day, just like mine, just in case the main channel's gone one day, you can still have, see where we are and have access to, to Doug. And I will see you guys. So Doug is an ex-scientologist and you know, guys know we have Claire Headley on the channel. I love, we love our Claire, but there was something about a Doug's channel that I was like, okay, yes, as my boyfriend said, this guy sees, he gets the bigger picture of what's really going on. And I love your title. Cults, cons, conspiracies and psychopathy because we're going to get, you know, the whole bigger picture, which my viewers are fully well aware of, of what's going on in the world. And one of my favorite series you've done has been raised in a secret society, especially when you did the Summer of Syop, because you actually connected the son, son of Sam Charles Manson, the, a lot of stuff, which we'll eventually get into because it's so fascinating. So all of that is going to be down in the description box below. Happy binging you guys on Doug's channel. So Doug, where do we want to start? Wherever you want to start? Do you want to know how? Let's start at the beginning. Okay. So my dad got into Scientology when I was around between eight and 10. So I say nine years old and the way it happened real quick because it's kind of a long story, but I'll just, I've learned how to hone it down, I think, to five minutes. So my dad was kind of an introvert, his button as they call it in the cult, what was bothering him was he wasn't a very good communicator. He was shut down. I don't think he was a sociopath. Perhaps he was traumatized from being in the military, whatever his background was, because my family kept the, I never really got to know him. I'm still trying to figure that out. But whatever it was that caused him to be so introverted and shut down, that was how he got hooked into Scientology. And the way it happened is he left work one day as my father when I was around nine, and he came back a totally different person. And the way I've described it since is that evil entered the house through my dad. I'm not saying that my dad's evil, but as we talk more about Scientology, I think you'll understand that it's evil. And that's what my dad brought home, metaphorically speaking. So he recounted this story to me and what he said, he was at work, you know, it's around eight or nine a.m. And he's just flipping through the newspaper like he usually does. And at the bottom corner of the newspaper, it said Dianetics, which is a way to hide that it's Scientology. They're one and the same. And it said, Dianetics, learn how to improve your relationship. You know, do you have problem communicating? Another word, something in that ad trigger what we just talked about, his inability to communicate. He goes down to the cult. Long story short, I don't know exactly what happened there, but when he came back, he said to my mom, I need to borrow $10,000. I just, from my brother, because we didn't have a lot of money at the time, I just discovered this new thing, Scientology. And it caused a shock amongst me and my mom and an uproar where they were fighting over several weeks over this. It might have turned into a divorce if my dad wasn't allowed to do it. That's how insistent he was. So what the hell happened there that day? Again, I'll just break it down briefly, but they take you into a room after filling out a 200 question personality test, which asks you very penetrating, odd questions designed to get inside your head and make you vulnerable. Then they take you into a room with the test results, and somehow they have a way of touching upon things where eventually they're going to hit upon that button. So they try to get you to break down. They try to get you to feel vulnerable. So whatever happened in that room with my dad, they found his button, and then once the person is vulnerable, broken down, and they're reaching, as they say, they look right into your eyes like hypnotized robots, like they're trained. It can be quite penetrating, and they say, Scientology can handle that. And then they're very persistent on selling it. Do you want to get started today? It's $50 for your first course. Here's the communication course, which you said you're having problems with. Let's walk to the course room and get you signed up. So he ended up not only beginning that communication course, hence the dead eyes and the hypnosis, which goes in very quickly doing those drills, which we can discuss later, but they also sold them what's called an auditing package. Real briefly, there's two sides in Scientology. There's the training, and then there's the auditing side. Loosely that's being hypnotized under the guise of psychotherapy, and you hold this strange thing called the E-meter, and they basically implant false memories in you while you think you're going spiritually free. It's a long story to explain that, but they sold them a package of that auditing, which is the most expensive, and the whole thing turned out to be $10,000. Like I said, my dad brings it back to the family. My mom and dad argue for a while. What's the Scientology thing? I would often cry as a kid, listening to them argue downstairs, and my mom comes up one day and says, I don't know what the Scientology thing is. Your dad's very insistent on it. I don't know what the hell's happening to him, why he's talking differently or whatever. I don't want to scare you, son, but we might have to get a divorce. Long story short, it finally came to a head, and this is how once one person gets into Scientology and the family, it needs to be spread to the rest. He was being trained by the cult how to speak to my mom, and one of the things that my dad finally said, to get my mom to go down there, rather than get divorced is, look, we're on the verge of divorce. You don't know anything about this. I understand you're worried. Would you please go down and check it out? I mean, before we get divorced, don't you want to know what it is we're getting divorced about? I found this amazing thing. You don't understand what it is. Let me just take you down there, and why don't you just see for yourself, and then you can make up your mind. My mom agreed to do that. They found her ruin, and she took to it. She was a little slower getting into it. I believe she did it to keep the family together, but she did become a fully indoctrinated Scientologist. For about 10 years, they would work on me to manipulate me, because again, they were being trained by the Colt how to do that. I was rebellious. I think a lot of that had to do with, I have quite controlling parents, and then we have the Colt in there. So subconsciously, I was angry, but I didn't know where that was coming from. So I was the black sheep of my family, and my sister was the golden child, the one that was praised. It didn't really have any problems, etc. So because I was rebellious, they felt I needed the most Scientology. So what they would do, and by the way, Bryce, I knew it was evil. Like, I didn't want to have anything to do with it. I didn't need to know anything about it. I just didn't like it. I didn't like what it did to my dad. I didn't want anything to do with it. But what they would do is, they would have me sit down and offload for an hour or two. Maybe I'd have a problem with a girlfriend. I'd have some kind of upset, whatever. And they would just listen as they were trained to intently listen in Scientology. And then at the very end, they'd say, now, Sam, we love you. Don't freak out. But you're going to need some punishment for your action. So would you like to be grounded to your room for a few weeks? Or would you please take a course at Scientology? We'll pay for it. We believe it'll really help you. And we just want to help you get over your issues. So I'd always tell them to go fuck themselves. But after a while, I finally just said, look, I can take it, fuck it. Give me, let's go down and see the Scientology shit. Bryce, it's a long story about what happened in the courses and the auditing or whatever. It took them a long time to kind of break me down. Part of that was I did actually have wins, but they were actually the phenomena of being under hypnosis and being dissociated, which can give you maybe, they reframed that as spirituality. So I did have lots of strange interesting things happening as a kid where I was slowly buying into some of it. But I resisted forever. Long story short, I get out of high school. I'm around 19 or 20. I hit a vulnerable point in my life. I have enough Scientology indoctrination. And I had enough wins, i.e., hypnosis highs, reframed as spiritual highs. And so I got caught for marijuana one day, which was very evil, both in my family and Scientology. That was finally my breaking point. I realized I need to get my ethics in, as they say. I need to stop messing up my brain with weeds. And I'm ready to take to Scientology. That's a really long story short, but that's around 20 years old. From there up until between 33-34, I was, as I say, a 100% dedicated, fully believing in Elrond Hubbard, Kool-Aid drinking cult member. And then I got out in a single day by a series of books being dropped off on my doorstep by a concerned friend for my acting class. So there's the 10 minute version of the whole thing. And it's so fascinating because I've heard your story because you were gaining a lot of success in Hollywood, correct? Like you were in movies. Yeah, I was right on the verge. Yeah. And when this call came crashing down on you, and I've heard you say that this guy from your acting class, like a friend of me almost, right? Yeah. Dropped a bunch of books. Now, had he kind of verrated you about the cult before, or did he just slide in this book with other books? Good question. No, he was a very jealous person. When me and my best friend, who grew up in the cult too, he died at 28, another story for another time, we got into this special school, which is hard to get into, which got us away from the Scientology schools that we were going to, named the Actor Studio. This was run by Martin Landau. This is a really prestigious school out here in LA and New York. So right when we got there, he was on us, you know, like a narcissist or a sociopath. They can hone in on, you know, the people that might shine a little bit. He was like that right when I met him. So that's why I say friend of me. And it doesn't, it doesn't matter. I've thanked him a million times. Sometimes it can be an enemy that wakes you up. Who it doesn't matter. But no, right away. But he was always in our life, like a little snake. And yes, right before he dropped the book off, he, well, a few months before that, he had found out I was a Scientologist. He would not tease me so much as so. How much have you done in Scientology? And I would just try to brush it off because I didn't want to, I didn't trust this guy. I didn't want to talk to him about it. I only opened up that I'm a Scientologist to people that I trust and feel out where they might take to it. But he somehow found out that I was one and I just tried to brush him off. But no, he asked, you know, questions. He wasn't too mean, but he was trying to get under my skin. And he was definitely trying to, as they say in the cult, make me wrong for being a Scientologist. He knew I was in a cult. I knew I wasn't. And I didn't like talking to him about it. So one day he, this was in January 2008, just to give some reference, he dropped off a stack of books on my doorstep. The very top one was a book called Combating my cult mind control by Steve Hassan. I think right below that was another book he did called Releasing the Bonds. These just happened to be the best cult books for beginners and all this shit. So because I was programmed as a Scientologist, to anybody that tries to talk me out of Scientology, he was already pushing the limit. The fact that he dropped these books off, I was programmed to go down to the cult and do what they call a knowledge report. It's an Orwellian snitching culture. So even if someone's not a Scientologist, you still report them, report them to the cult. So they have a file on this person. So I just happened to be too lazy. I was like, because I was going to do it that night. I'm like, I'll do it tomorrow morning. The books are just sitting there. I'm getting more and more angry. And by the way, Bryce, I called him up and left several messages. Fuck you, dude. I'm not Nicole. I'm going to fucking, you know, I don't know if I told him I was going to report. I kind of threatened. I was really, really angry. So long story short, I said, fuck it, I'm just going to pick up this book. Like I said, the combating cult mind control. I'd say within about 20 minutes, my heart started to sink. And then by the time I got to the end of the book, I mean, I read it in one shot within X amount of hours. I can't describe the emotions that were going on, but there's a lot of explanations, psychological explanations going into hypnosis, something called the bite model, how cults work, lift ins, you know, eight points of mystical manipulation and microtra. I was just learning all this brand new stuff. But what really clicked was if he, the writer was an X mooney, that would be the moon cult, right? Sun, young moon. If he had said Scientology is a cult, but I would have just shut the book because it thought terminating cliches is what they're called. Anybody talks about the Scientology or not? You're just like literally programmed to shut down. It's like, if you have any question about the government, they say conspiracy theory, it's like a word to just shut down the debate. So you go no further, right? So because he didn't mention Scientology, and he was describing the moon cult, it didn't take me long to figure out, holy shit, that's what Elron Hubbard's doing. Holy shit, Hubbard's doing that. Oh my God, Scientology does that too. And by the time I was at the end of the book, I was in a bad state, man. I mean, half happy that am I free from something I didn't even know I was a prisoner of? Scared to death, like how am I going to get my family out? Because I have to do that. Now they're going to turn on me. How do I break them out of this spell that I'm understanding? And just the overwhelming feeling of being lied to my whole life, not being able to understand how Elron Hubbard did the trick. I had to learn a lot of stuff since then to understand what happened to me. And it was a map to sum it up. It was a massive complex post-traumatic stress disorder, nightmares every night. This is dissociated for about a decade. And that's how long it took me to work through all the avenues of trying to extract myself, not just from the cult, but eventually my family who became the people that are supposed to protect you the most. It's not their fault because they were programmed to. Became my enemies and they pushed me to the brink of wanting to suicide myself. I went homeless, the acting career. I couldn't even focus on that. I was about to go through a massive change. And it took about a decade to get through that part. I totally, I hope you guys listen to that. Listen to what he's saying. And we've talked about the bite model before on my channel because it's very, regardless of what your feelings are about the person who wrote the book, the bite model is one of the best. Yes. Most, I mean, I tell people to put on the refrigerator because it's just a helpful to remind you, like, am I being manipulated? Am I being controlled? And you say that, I mean, I grew up Presbyterian and I have a lot of issue with the church. And I see people will say, like with the Bible, if you have questions, they'll say, oh, that's just the devil, the devil's within you. It's the same thing to get you to talk critically thinking. And I know that on this channel, Doug, we have gone through a lot of the missing books of the Bible, which has really helped. And I haven't been in church since I was 17 years old, but it really helped me deconstruct what was left lingering. Just to read the real story of Yeshua, not Jesus, but Yeshua, he didn't, he was not crucified. He basically taught you that it's you, Boo, like this is you against you. It's you just learning and growing as a soul. It's very liberating versus what the Bible is. And, you know, and so it just, it's so wild to me. We talk, you know, the fair gaming of Scientology. And I will say, it's one thing that drives me crazy when I hear people from cults say, well, you know, the church doesn't do this. I'm like, yeah, they do. It's called the Inquisition. It's called all the witch trials. It's called the children that are passed around, you know, that are still, it's called, they have a hard time going to court too, because of the religious exemption, you know. And I know, Doug, you have done, and we'll get into how you started to figure out that this was bigger than just Scientology. But I wanted, I'm going to say this to you on air. I, as everybody watching knows, I work with a lot of other YouTubers who are aware of things as well, and they work with whistleblowers who grow up in these particular, we'll say, controller families, we'll just say. And the five pillars of Satanism. Now, I learned this off-camera. I was chatting with someone off-camera, and she couldn't remember the fifth one. But the five, the four she could remember from a whistleblower was of Satanism, Scientology, Mormonism, the Freemasons, and Christianity. And she couldn't remember what the fifth one was from the whistleblower. But so they're all kind of, I kind of see it as like puppet masters using marionettes. And what's interesting too, and I talked about this with Claire Headley, is that if you, you know, and what you've been able to do, Doug, is impressive because you've been able to kind of sit back even with your own trauma and just see things from a bigger perspective. See the big picture of what's happening through the lenses of what you experienced. And, you know, when you look, Claire had sent me a diet, I didn't want to buy Dianetics, I don't want to give them money, but she has, she sent me a PDF. And we know that darkness cannot create anything. Psychopaths can't create anything. Narcissists can't create anything. Darkness can't create anything. In nature, the dark, it's the light that creates, right? Even in the womb of a woman, inside the womb it's dark. But when a sperm hits an egg, there's a light, right? The darkness can only help show you the light, in that respect. And so what a lot of these psychotic cult leaders, do we see this with Nexium? My friend Kelly Teal, who survived Nexium, they take truth. They take some truth. It's not theirs. Elron Hubbard didn't create anything. This is all stolen from other material. So they take something called the reactive mind, which we talk about in Eastern philosophy. It's the subconscious mind, the virtues of the attachment to the self. And they manipulate it. They invert it. And I've heard you saying, I think this is amazing. Scientology, as well as a lot of other cults, make people almost walking psychopaths. They kind of try to erase the emotional body. Yes. Whereas in the true teachings, in the Vedic texts, you actually dive deeper into that and you become more compassionate and you become a more understanding person because you know how powerful your emotions are. And so, Doug, when did you, at what moment in waking up from Scientology, did you go, Holy shit, this is bigger than Scientology? Like, what was it that made you start looking into everything else and connected to governments and all that kind of stuff? And yeah, the conspiracy, the devils in us now, you know, as we're challenging what the authorities tell us. That's a really good question. And I mean, I don't know everything. I'm always learning. But the only reason I feel like I kind of got the ballpark right is because it was totally organic. I mean, I'm the last thing from a conspiracy theorist. Now, mind you, Hubbard was a conspiracy nutter, but a lot of that had to do with the fact he's running from governments. Plus, he knew a lot about the MK Ultra project and he was looped into the CIA projects and stuff, too. He wasn't dumb. And like you said, he sold everything from everyone and he did have insider knowledge. So, I just wanted to know how the trick was done. I want to know what the hell happened to me. And that book I told you about combating cold mind control was a really good primer because it went over things that I knew nothing about. I mean, hypnotism, I thought, was swinging a watch in front of someone's face. The bite model, behavior, information, thought, and emotional control. I never even knew these concepts. So, I was getting my mind blown and just through a very natural, organic, intuitive process of trying to figure out what happened to me in Scientology, I automatically slowly started to become aware of the television, the propaganda hitting me from politicians. I could see the similarities and then also especially when the subject of narcissists came in that connected a lot more dots. Like I said, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I just wanted to be an actor. I was seeking the truth massively. I thought I was seeking the truth with Scientology. So, my life was also on the line. It wasn't an option just to go back I didn't have a family or anything to go back into and I lost my mind and everything. So, I had to figure this out. And what I thought was, it would take me about two years to put my mind back together again. I was having a career in Hollywood, so I'm like, but I couldn't focus on the auditions. It's all I talked to with my agents, my friends. I'm like, I'm going to full-time figure this out. I'm going to keep going to acting class, but I'm going to pull back professionally a little while. And then when I get my mind and self back together again, I don't know what happened. I'm going to really pursue where I left off in Hollywood. So, naturally, my eyes started to open. And it was a process of not looking for it. I mean, literally the next book, I mean, I would have 10 tabs open on my computer while I'm living out of my car. This became a full-time obsession to feed myself with the basic knowledge that I missed as a normal human growing up in a cult because I was really dumb on one level. And then once I had a basic understanding of what normal people know, you people know, I then had to deal with other areas that a lot of people don't know about, unless they might grow up in a cult and have to learn esoteric knowledge, psychology, whatever you want to call it, but I'd never been introduced to this information in school or anywhere else. So, after I got de-dumbed and got myself up to normal human level by just reading as much as I could about normal subjects, psychology explained a lot about what happened to me in the cult. Like I said, I learned a lot about hypnotism, NLP, all sorts of interesting subjects, plus I was interested in it. Just a very organic process of one rabbit hole would lead to the next. And then I ran into a whole bunch of information that would talk about a global conspiracy. And I accepted that right away because I already was seeing it and I was very open to going, well, because I knew it's so hard to explain to people. This is the question they have the most is how they're looking from the outside and going, how can any of these people believe in Scientology? Like it's so dumb and the leader is obviously a fraud. His teeth are falling out. Like it doesn't make sense, right? But the way I describe Scientology in a sentence, because it's a lot of things, but in a sentence, it's being under a hypnotic spell. He was a master hypnotist. And you remember how we were talking about that communication course earlier that my dad got into? He went under in a few hours. They have drills where you stare at each other for hours on end. They can put you into a trance in day one and unless you get, and they can maintain it for a lifetime. So we're not dumb. It's just that, you know, and Hubbard's not unique when it comes to the controllers. They do know how the subconscious mind works. And if you don't, you're fucked, especially if you're a creative person. Because if once you bite into it, you know, and you open up that right brain, you're liable to just go into and the La La Land very quickly like I did. I mean, once I took to it, I really got fucked. But to answer your question, it was just, I just said, like Scientology, everything turned out to be the opposite. So my starting point was, if I turn everything up on its head, like if everything I'm told to believe, if I just look at it in the opposite way, like in Scientology, that was closer to the truth. In other words, Erwin Hubbard says he's mankind's greatest friend. He turned out to be one of the most psychopathic people ever. He says he's taking you up to the, you know, freedom. You're actually being more and more disassociated and more and more removed from your true self and having his ass implanted into your head. So everything was inverted. So I started to look at the world that way and people that I used to look up to, be it my parents, Hubbard or authority, I started to question them. And as you know, as soon as you do that, you better be prepared to have your life and your perception and everything change. Because it's quite a shock to wake up to people that you just blindly trust in and believe in. And then you have a whole different, at least for me, it happened quickly. There was a whole perception shift, which therefore caused my entire life to change. It was super dramatic, Bryce. I'm sure anybody that's quote, woken up, I know that's an overused phrase, but you know what I mean? You start to see through bullshit and you kind of get freaked out. Anybody that's been through that process, they know what I'm talking about. I'm sure you do too. Yeah, it's a lot of our viewers. And it's like, you know, they say taking the red pill from the Matrix movie, but a lot of people say, no, it's actually taking a black pill. Because once you realize it's in that, that's kind of the hard road to walk when you see how to live your life fully and have to like engage in the game, but also not play the game. And it's, you know, my friend Tamara, who is an astrologist down in Australia, she is very awake. And she was Lionel Richie. She read for a lot of people in Hollywood. Very interesting, incredible lady. I'll introduce you one day. Of course, Australia, we have a lot of Australian viewers. You guys have had it really rough in Australia. No, shit. And that's what's scary too. I think, Doug, you know, leading up to this generation where we are now, even for people, and my heart goes out to people who have been awake for a really long time. Me too. But at this point, there's nowhere to go. Oh, that's what I was going to say. Tamara always laughs and says, you know, we must have been sitting up in the Aethers as souls and been real bored to decide to come to Earth with this. I've thought, I've had many of, I've had that similar thought before when I was asking, why me? What the hell am I doing here? What the hell is all this about? Go to hell now. I don't want to play with this game. Scotty, beam me up, man. This ain't my home. Get me the fuck out of the madhouse. Yeah, get me out of here. This is so, and it's, and it's so hard, and so many people are waking up right now, but they get stuck. You know, I say this a lot, and I hope people can really hear what I'm saying. The controllers of this world are many things, but stupid is not one of them. They're psychopaths. They're very maniacal and very controlled in the way that they plan things. And there are such things as junk conspiracies, and it's the Trojan horse. You know, they'll send in, and I've seen this happen in the, the truth or world. I hate that name, though I hate it. We're seekers. We don't know the full truth. We're just seeking the truth. But I've seen this happen in this world of people who have slightly woken up and they're looking for more, and they get, they get kind of taken by the Trojan horse of the junk conspiracy cul-de-sac, where they spin in circles, distracted, while the real thing's happening over here. I see this, we kind of off-camera talked about, and we can't say the name of it, but the number 17, the cult where, you know, they're waiting for people who probably aren't alive to like- The letter right after P, right? Yeah, right. Yeah, that one. And it's like they're focusing so much on these grandiose fantasies about people being alive, who might be dead. Right. When in reality- The earth is flat, and even if it is, who cares? It's kind of, you know, off-topic. Right. Like, when in reality, we've got real problems on our hands that are right in front of us. You know, and somebody said, I think it was actually my boyfriend who said this, like, you know, sometimes, because we think about hypnotism, like CNN, Fox, these are all hypnotists, you know, they're hypnotizing you. That's what they're doing. It's all part of the same trick. The Project Mockingbird, I always call it Project Mockingbird or something. Project Monarch, where they hide, the media was basically, I would say not even a hijab, but created to hypnotize and propagandize people's minds. Yep, and the same people, the same family, six families who on the media are the same six families who in all the seminary schools. So it's coming through your religion. It's coming through your educational system. I've done a breakdown on the Federal Reserve. When the Federal Reserve was created here in Georgia, off Jackal Island, that's when the public schools were created. And that's when education was forced on people before that. Children were learning Greek, Coptic Egyptian, and they started dumbing us down. You know, we could just go on. And it's like there's, you know, and I think when you start to wake up to your whole world, and I know you had it in, like almost like a head-on collision, like it happened to you in a very traumatic way, but you know, when people start to wake up and they realize that their whole life has been a lie, everything, our food's fake, everything's not real, even though they want to be awake, it's like they subconsciously want to go back to sleep. And so they look, instead of watching the talking head on CNN, they start to follow these Trojan horses to tell them what to eat instead of reading. Exactly. Another leader to look up to rather than look within and actually go the individuation route, which is fucking hard to do. And I'm, Bryce, the only reason I did that, as I told you earlier, my life was on the line. It wasn't a choice. You know, I needed to understand it or I was going to perish. Yeah. Yeah. Because I wouldn't, it's not something I would have volunteered to do. Like it was a great gift. Now I'm fine. I'm on the other side, but I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy. And I feel like I do understand. I would have stayed to sleep. I wasn't asleep most of my life. I just got lucky and got ejected out, but the pressure of going your own way and not falling into a controlled opposition or another side or another leader to look to outside of yourself, that's a hard fucking path, man. It is. It's really hard. And that I will say, too, for like the red flags for people when you're joining any type of spiritual organization or self-help organization or even if it's a karate dojo. Yeah. The true teachings through the missing books of the Bible, through the Vedic texts, all these teachings, the law of one, it all comes down to you. You are your own savior. In fact, the etymology of the word savior means one who saves himself. Nobody can do it. Nobody can ascend if you want to use that word, can evolve, whatever you would enlighten, whatever words you want. No one can do it but you. And I tell people all the time, like, that's your privilege that no one can do it but you. That just shows you that spark of life. I mean, in Genesis, the original I was doing my, you know, I think it's verse one three where it says, when God created the light. And the original word for light, Hebrew meant divine spark. So there's already, you know, we're looking at something outside of us. Oh, God created this, the sun. No, it's a divine spark and that verse, it's saying God created you. He created you. So you are that divine spark and you are the only one. You can use these tools. You can use yoga. You can use all these things to help you find yourself but no teacher can give that to you. You have to find this yourself. And, you know, when we look at the negative path, the negative path versus the positive, the positive path is a social memory complex where everyone is equal and everyone contributes and everyone not like communism, not like. No, I get what you're saying. But the negative side is, is a pecking order. There's a pecking order. That's the, the dark side where we, and we see that, you know, that's like the royal family always freaks me out. Like how is this person more valuable by birth than the person. So ludicrous that example you just used with the royal family tells you everything we need to know about kind of where we're at. Because that should have been gone a long time ago in a growing up society, right? Yeah. It's, I mean, it's, it's crazy. It's like, you know, I understand respecting people who have really done a lot for your country and have really proven themselves and having that respect, not admiration, not like venerating, but respect. But someone who's just born in their position because that's, that's it. That's the pecking order of the bloodline. Like that's, that's all negative. And so we have to be careful when we're not pulling that into. And it's so much easier just to ask somebody for the answers. Yeah, it really is. It's never, and people like Elrond Hubbard, I mean, let's, yeah, you're right. He had gross teeth, but you watched those videos. That man was charismatic. I think he was high. You think so? I mean, oh, he was high. He was on drugs most of the lectures. He was at Crowleyite. That was his main man. And part of that, as you know, was to take massive amount of drugs to access the subconscious. I mean, you could tell him it was tweaking. I mean, I just He was. It's nobody. I watched on Aaron Smith Levin's channel, the guy who, who used to be the, and Jay, I forgot the local life vote. Tommy Gray. I love his Tommy Scoville or whatever. Yes. He did a show where he believed where he was trying to prove that or show his, his observation that Hubbard was a massive drug abuser. And he was kind of talking about it. And Janice Gillam Grady, who I think is adorable. She was a little girl with Hubbard. Yeah. She's like, no, he didn't do drugs. Well, maybe not around you, hun, but the guy. Well, I guess I kept thinking, people who do drugs have a really good way of hiding them. I feel like. Exactly. Especially to Janice, who was young. She was his, the Commodore's messenger is what they call it. So she's literally falling around, but it's not like he's going to be snorting the line on the boat and shit right next to her when she's seven. You know what I mean? Right. Right. I kept saying, no, they can hide stuff like that previously. And if you are six or seven years old, you're not going to do it in front of a kid that age. And also, but if they saw anything, they might not know what it is. They don't even have a concept of what that is anyway. And, you know, it's it's it's interesting because I'm a huge supporter of plant medicine. Like I think, you know, I think microdosing is great. I think ayahuasca has a purpose with with with help, you know, with a person that's monitoring you for your safety. But then you see the reverse of that where they abuse it so much that it almost creates this. And I guess that's what they're trying to do. It creates this because it's almost it's almost subhuman in a sense, you know, in that sense. No, yeah, totally. And then, of course, David Mascabbage is the new. And it's interesting. I've noticed this Doug. And of course, I was never in Scientology. But what I've noticed just in my observations is even though people acknowledge that Hubbard was a psychopath, there's almost like loving memory of Hub of Hubbard in contrast to Mascabbage. And I'm kind of thinking but aren't both of them the problem? They are. But David Mascabbage could be compared to like a brute. He doesn't have the quote brilliance. Whatever you want to call it, the cleverness, the charisma, he was he's different than Hubbard. Hubbard was aloof, super psychopathic, but somehow he just had a he created it. And David Mascabbage, you know, Hubbard was a very vindictive man, but he had intelligence tactics of going against people. And even though David might use the same tech because that's what he was trained in, he would just beat the shit out of someone as opposed to using logic or the cleverness that Hubbard had. They're really two different people. This is why a lot of they're called indie Scientologists where they break away from the cult. They maybe grew up in the 60s and shit when Scientology was fun and stuff. And they don't see the whole con because what they remember is again, the aloofness of Hubbard, the charisma, whatever you want to call it. Those were the good days of Scientology and then David Mascabbage came in and he did make things more O'wellian. He's much more of a brute. He removed a lot of the technology which you're never supposed to do. He's changed it. So you could see why people have been in forever and are super brainwashed that they would recognize David Mascabbage is the problem. But sometimes for a lifetime, they can still carry their admiration for Hubbard and the tech. It's crazy. It's it isn't it. I mean, that's what's interesting to me is psychology behind that as well. It is interesting. Yeah. Just how people and I know like when somebody passes away, we've been trained never to speak ill of the dead, you know, we want to and I think as an empathic people, we want to always give people with the benefit of the doubt. Yeah. But it's almost like I listen to some of these and I'm like, that's so interesting. So when once in it's just saying he was psychopath and next and it's the way you speak, it's almost like you're reflecting on your grandpa. Yeah. Oh, it's interesting. But what you said, that's that's key. It sounds like Hubbard was able to outsmart people with his wit. Whereas Miss Cabbage just beats the shit out of him. You got it. So there was a higher intelligence probably with Hubbard. Whatever you want to call it, David was the brute. Yeah, lacking the intelligence, cleverness, manipulative, if it is. I mean, they're both psychopath, I would say, but yeah, there was something very, very different about Hubbard and Miss Cabbage is just well, he applied one of Hubbard's policies to get to the top where power isn't something you ask for, it's assumed. So he was the most brutish, was able to cleverly, in his own way, rise up the ranks and knew what he wanted to do to take over Scientology. He had to push people out of the way. And he had a whole program, which he did think out on how to do that, which is quite clever. But he's a very abusive, physically abusive man. And not that Hubbard wasn't, he was just much more. I mean, I don't have any, any of those feelings for him, Bryce, you know, I stopped liking Hubbard. I literally was like, thought he was the greatest man on earth one day, and for most of my life. And then the next day, I didn't like him at all. In fact, I said, I wanted to find out where he was buried. He died in 86, dig up his body and beat the shit out of him. Because a man I never knew, took my family, my mind, and it left me with this incredible conundrum where I didn't like him at all. But a lot of these people, like the, you know, Janice and stuff, and who could blame him? I mean, you know, the Hubbard was like their father figure, probably. I mean, they, the entrenched memories they must have of this man, I never met Hubbard. So I could understand. Yeah. But still, what I don't understand is, you know how you said, it's fascinating. Yeah, I never, I don't like Hubbard, but it's interesting to study psychopaths. I do like to understand to get as close as I can to what they're thinking. And that's why I consider Scientology a little bit of a gift now that I'm out of it. Because it took me as close to evil as I can get, which is something you need to know about in this world, without becoming that and then getting out. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I totally get that. I totally. Well, it's interesting too because, you know, we talk about narcissism. I know we kind of spoke a little bit about this off camera, but I think too, as human beings, we're only living through the reality of our own perception. And so if you are somebody who is a naturally empathic person, meaning you don't have to think when it comes to feeling for other people and having guilt and understanding love for a human and how to have that. A narcissist or a psychopath does not see anybody that way the same way you process it. They play with you. They play on those things in order to use you in the way they want to use you. So it's easy to see how the projection of Hubbard for these people that were on the free winds was that what the boat was called? Mm-hmm. You got it. With him especially. Well, that's whatever. They were named different names, but free winds is one of that they had the doubt want to get off and a tangent on the whole boat because that would take 20 minutes to explain it. They were on a boat sailing out of the world. Right. Running away from the government in the 60s when they formed the Sea Org to get away from the governments that were assessing them and stuff. They basically formed their own government. Exactly. Yeah. And when you're that young, especially, you know, there is a dynamic relationship. You know, it's the father-daughter relationship is really important. The mother-son relationship is really important. There's a lot of psychology behind that. Mm-hmm. It's over these young girls who are placed in Hubbard's care. And I don't believe that Hubbard was doing. He wasn't a pedophile, was he? I don't think, you know, there's no evidence as far as I know, but, you know, you have to think about that when you see, especially when there's a picture where they're all in there, you know, they look kind of like strippers or whatever. You know, they got the high boots on whatever you call them. They're really young and new bile. And then Hubbard's, there's this picture of him and it's an old man looking down. I mean, I don't think he was a pedophile. I know he was bisexual, you know, he slept apparently with Errol Flynn and his and his buddies just as much as he would sleep with his wife. Well, interesting. I wouldn't put it past him, though, you know, Bryce, so much of stuff has been coming out with the Danny Masterson revelations. This was a crowd that I ran with where I was not privy to any of this, even though it was right in front of my face. There's so much coming out more about pedophilia specifically in Scientology. In fact, I just interviewed a guy that was auditing a guy who was the head of a pedophile ring. So I didn't think any of that pedophile stuff was going on in the cult, but more is coming out. So if Hubbard turns out to be a pedophile, it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be shocking. I'm surprised that there isn't evidence, but as far as we know, no, I have to say that. Yeah, as I said, it's all, it's all weird. Yeah, it is very strange and as as a, you know, if it were a woman, I would not think it as strange because the women naturally just already have kind of a motherly instinct. I mean, I'm 40. I don't have to spend, but I'm very protective over my nephew and niece is like, I get that. And I, but for a man, you know, I don't know. There's something kind of weird about that, but there's never seems to be any type of evidence to to indicate that that was going on. And I don't think so. But for those little girls to be, and when you're a child, I mean your brain from up to the age of eight is the most malleable at that point. So to be that young, and I don't know, like I said, I have a nephew and two nieces. I don't know how these parents just handed their children over and put them on a boat in the middle of the ocean without that. I would not, if my sister did that with my nephew and nieces, I would probably go to court and fight for guardianship at that point because that's freaking what? You know, like it's just the whole situation. And so the workings of them, it's just, it's so just complex. And I don't know if it was on your channel or another channel where someone was saying that cult leaders are always narcissists. Yeah, that was HG2 that said that night. I agree with them. I even asked them could a cult leader be a normal or an empathic person? And he said, no, it'd be impossible. Impossible. And you think about it this way, like I think about this a lot as just driving. Like this is, this is the shit I think about. Like, do I want to have control over it? I don't even want to own. I mean, I guess I owe my own business with esoterically. You don't want to control people and everything around you, right? I don't want to do that. Like I just do not. I have a hard enough time controlling my dog on a leash. Yes. I just don't even, I, that stresses me out. Like I don't want it because I feel like if you even for people who own businesses to have employees to make sure their employees are okay to make sure that they're being paid enough to make sure they're, you know, that's so, so, and I don't want that power. Like that's, I'm not interested. And so when I was like, that's because, and that's because narcissists don't have a sense of self. And so they have to feed off of, you know, an empathetic person will naturally have a self to rest into. They have to get their persona from they have to feed off of someone who actually has a soul. Right. And so that's, I guess, why they, and just the control, like just to tell someone, like, you can't talk to your family because your family doesn't like me. Never tell someone. Like that just doesn't even like enter my mind. And that's, that's what's so sad. I mean, that disconnection is heavy in Scientology, isn't it? Yeah, that's one of the, well, first of all, that's a huge red flag without going any further, breaking down the bite model or anything. If when you leave an organization, this might be the difference between a religion and a destructive cult, they let you go. They don't have private investigators following you and they don't bring your family into an interrogation room and you saying, if you don't continue on and you decide to leave, we're going to take your fucking family away from you. That's the destructive cult and they're one of the most ruthless when it comes to the consequences of both being in and especially when you get out. It's very hard to get out. A lot of people have died, either mentally breaking down or physically being harassed at the point of exhaustion or suiciding themselves. And I would suggest that they even have several murders made to look like suicides. They have a, they're very, they're not like the mafia. That's not exactly correct, but they're kind of a terrorist organization. They terrorize people per the policies. It's funny you said that when you said mafia in my head, I thought I actually would probably trust the mafia more. That's a great point. So what, because they have some, some morals and, you know, family loyalty, right? Exactly. So they're kind of like the opposite in a certain way. I don't think the mafia just goes around. No, you're right. I'm sorry to give a bad name to the mafia. You're absolutely right about what you said. I think the Campino family, I don't know. I think they do their crimes because they're warranted, not just not because somebody said they didn't like them. That's a good point, man. It's not, so let's lose terrorist organization as a, I don't want to insult the mafia. My bad. That's pretty, that's pretty sad though if you're, if somebody is sitting there, like if you're a high-ranking Scientology and you heard somebody go, I think I trust the Campino family more than you. That's, that's a, that's pretty, that's pretty sad. But you know, but it's, and it's that, that could, you know, I think about this a lot with like the CU organization, which you guys, and you were never part of the CU organization, correct? Correct. And I keep thinking about these poor humans, you know, just listening to everybody that I've listened to who's been a part of it, they really isolate those, those people. Yeah. They make them work non-stop, they take away all their personal belongings, they don't pay them anything. So if you're 40, 50 years old and you want to leave, you have no money, you have no driver's license, you have no checking account, where if your family's in Scientology, you have no, no, no place to go to, for that support. That's why I guess the Aftermath Foundation is awesome because I'll put the links down in the description box below. So if we do have any people watching that need help, I volunteered with Claire from the Atlanta org, which I don't even think is that big, but if in fucking Atlanta needs a ride or anything, I will come and get you. Awesome. You never know. I would, absolutely. I would come, I know where it is. I'll come pick you up. And you know, that's, yeah, it's fine. You know, so, so you know, it's just, it's, so a healthy organization is not going to put those boundaries on you. No. They're not, you know, they're not going to tell you who, I mean, as a, as a teacher outside of this with the, with yoga, I know a lot of yoga people end up hanging out with each other because you have a commonality, but I always encourage people like, don't, don't not hang out with your non-yoga friends too. Like, don't keep, make sure you keep those, that's important that you keep the, you know, and it's, it's, and I think too, when you find a spiritual practice or what you think is a spiritual practice that is giving you that false perception of hope, it's easier to fall into prey of a predator. And, you know, it's, it's, it's so, I, for the people who say, oh, that will never happen to me. Yeah, it can happen to you. Absolutely. Can I even, can I even take that one step further, right? Because that's what I've heard the most, what you just said. I would never say this could never happen to me because of what I learned. I think that people say that it's already happened to them because someone, it's kind of arrogant to think you're going to grow up in this world, especially the way that it is today. Mind you, the controllers, whoever people think they are, they exist, and they were here well before we came here. So we come in here with our dicks in our hands. We're all subject to programming of some degree or another, even if you grow up on a field in the middle of nowhere. So it always makes me cackle when people watch my story or other cult survivors or people coming out of an abusive relationship or people that think you have to be dumb to be brainwashed and hypnotized. I can't be hypnotized, I can't be brainwashed. We, I think we all are. And it's impossible not to, because you mentioned earlier how we're hit from every angle. So the real wisdom, as Socrates says, right, is knowing that you know nothing. And then from there, you can get somewhere. So if you're, and by the way, the cults know this, the ones that are the most easiest to capture, like me, know that that couldn't happen to them. Those are the easiest people to get because they don't have the defense mechanisms up. I mean, that's that's a scientific fact, by the way, from people who've studied cults. I mean, I can't tell you, you know, the authors off the top of my head, but that's not me pulling it out of my ass. The ones that are most susceptible are the ones that know it can't happen to them. And those that think that it can, are less likely and more able to see the red flags. Yeah. And I think that's why your story and everybody's story and any cult survivor story is so important, not just for the bigger picture of the world, but so that you, people learn how to, because when you were a little kid, you had a gut reaction to this. And that was the truth of it. And we see, and that's what I, I get so upset. You know, when you see children, children, have you ever seen the documentary, Doug Carmageddon? No. I can send it to you after we get off of this. I actually just did a discussion with it, with my friend Kelly from Who Survived Nexium. And I was talking with her on the phone and we started talking. It's based off of Bhagavan Das, who is, he was a contemporary of Ram Das. I love Ram Das, but Bhagavan Das is a very talented Kirtan singer. He's a very talented musician, but he is 100% a narcissist, and he is very manipulative with the people who follow him. And so Carmageddon is kind of about one of his students. I hate to say come to Jesus moment, but for lack of a better word, come to Jesus moment and realizing that this guy is not a guru. And it's great. Like it's fantastic. Is it on YouTube, Bryce? Is it on like Prime? Is it on Amazon? It's on YouTube now. It was made in 2011. Every couple of years or so, I'll go back and rewatch it just to really. I really want to see that today. Actually, if you don't mind linking it because I love watching stuff like this. I mean, I'll text it to you. I would love to watch it. Are you knowledge to anything? Yeah, because it's fantastic. And because that's the world that I'm in. I'm not in the Kirtan world. I don't actually like Kirtan, but I'm in the yoga world and I've spent a lot of time in India. And I'm very fortunate, as I told my friend Kelly, I've been in abusive relationships. Absolutely. I've been in that cult of one before, but I've been very fortunate with my teachers because I've never had a teacher that showed any type of control. It was very, very hands-off to even in India, very hands-off teachers. Teachers, we have to find our own apartments. We have to find everything. We just, it's a school. You just go to school and that's it. He doesn't give you like you go and you try to have a meeting with the palm group one-on-one to ask some questions about your life. But he really doesn't give you any answers. He just basically talks and metaphors because you got to go figure it out for yourself. And if you're there too long, like if he feels like you've been in the school too long or in India for too long, he goes, you go home now. Like he'll send you home, you know? So I've been very fortunate that I've had really good teachers that have really given me the opportunity to have a fair shot at this text without being controlled. But I will watch Carmen get in every couple of years since it came out in 2011 just to remind myself of how manipulative and how the main person, Jeff Brown, who did this documentary, you can tell he's a brilliant guy and how Bhagavan Das plays on his intelligence and gets him like spinning in his head overthinking things and trying to justify Bhagavan Das's behavior. You know? I have seen this thing. That's not even familiar. I really want to see this price. I'll send it to you. And it might be cool, like if you have seen it watching it again after you have even more to see. You know, and I'm a huge, I love Ram Das who's another contemporary but Ram Das is very hands-off as well. And in the documentary, he goes and actually talks to Ram Das and he's trying to like justify things with Ram Das and Ram Das is kind of like, you know, he's like, you know, he's, this guy is like in his 70s. He's sleeping with all these young girls, blah, blah, blah. Does it really matter though if his teachings are good and Ram Das goes, it all matters. It all matters. It absolutely matters, you know? And the teacher's job or the, you know, Scientology leader's job or the self-help person's job is not to push over the apple cart. It's not to create more karma for you. That's not the role of the teacher. Unless the teacher's a psychopath, especially if they're a conscious psychopath, that's exactly what their goal is without letting the adherents know that. Well, in Bhagavan Das, he uses that phrase, my, I'm here to push over the apple cart and he makes people think that that's in one scene, which I, after re-watching it again after understanding how big, you know, before all this, I knew pedophilia was a problem. I didn't realize it was as big of a problem as it actually is. Is it a problem in that? Well, the guy, there's a scene where there's a girl who like just turned 18 and Bhagavan Das is probably in his 70s at this point and he invites the girl to go on tour with him. Well, she's like 18 years old, right? She's young, dumb and naive. She thinks she's literally going to go on tour with Bhagavan Das. She's not looking at him in a sexual way. Well, then she finds out that the payment for her to go on tour with him is for her to sleep with him. And she turns him down. And then she goes and tells her parents, her father sends Bhagavan Das a skating email, rightly so. That's her dad. That's for sure. Bhagavan Das turns it on the father and says, Oh, I've triggered you. This is your anger issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The father ends up apologizing to Bhagavan Das. Wow. Wow. He is manipulative. Yes. And I'm watching this again and I'm thinking, if we now, I know you met my boyfriend off camera, if we did have a child, I know if it was a daughter, he would never allow that to happen. Like I know that he is, and that's part of spiritual. And that's the one thing that a lot of gurus, fake gurus will do is they'll manipulate spirituality that if you want to be a loving person, you have to accept everyone and just forgive them. Right. Let your boundaries down. There are no predators. Exactly. Except everyone. That was a big part of Scientology, by the way, what you just said. But boundaries are really important and I know spirituality. I'm still trying to learn to put them up and they will remove so much growing up. I'm still learning how, I mean, I still have to, you know, I still get manipulated. And I'm not perfect everywhere, but I learn a little bit faster each time. But those boundaries, man, especially being kind of more empathic person, I realized since I got out of the cult, you project and you think everybody's coming at you the same way you are. So you just don't fucking see anything until you're weeks deep into a relationship. But then you find out they had some hidden agenda or something. I, oh, fuck, I didn't see that again. It's like an ever-going process. Yeah. Well, and that's taken me a long time to really learn that in my personal life, too, because I'll give, give, give, give, give. And even my friends, like you've got to stop, you've got to take care, you've got to cut it off. And it's interesting, Patanjalene who wrote the Yoga Sutras and a lot of the Ayurvedic books 5,000 years ago, the number one rule of yoga is a hemsa, which means non-violence. And people will often point out, he didn't say peace. He said non-violence. So you have to stand to ground. Part of it, if you look at like Gandhi, I know people have weird ideas about Gandhi, but for lack of a better example, you know, when he was standing up against the British, he wasn't violently, he was just standing his ground. And, you know, if someone breaks into your home and is threatening your family, part of a hemsa, even though this might seem violent, is to defend them, is to set that boundary up. Yeah, it's a boundary to defend yourself and your life. Yes. And that is what I will say is another red flag for a healthy organization and a non-healthy organization. If the leader is not imposing boundaries, or recognizing boundaries, then I would see that as a red flag at this point. Like my teacher puts up, like, we don't go to my teacher's house, we don't go- You don't show up at the volleyball court at 2 a.m. To meet some short fat guy named Keith Reneary. That's another red flag. If anybody asks you to go to a volleyball court at 2 a.m., just pass. And it looks like a troll. I mean, I had lots of my friend Kelly, and I might have said this off camera. So I'll say it on camera, and I apologize if this offends anyone, but I was like, that man is so disgusting. He had to create a cult in order to get laid. Like- I know, but how did volleyball fit into that, too? I mean, he's not only uncharismatic. I mean, I don't want to speak, though, because I bet you in the cult, they probably did think he was charismatic and stuff. Just like a lot of people go, how could you follow Hubbard? But even volleyball, the weight, the headband, the whole thing about him. Again, outsiders would go, I'd never fall for that. But he also was a master hypnotist, and he stole a ton from Scientology. He uses a lot of- Did you ever see that scene? There's a clip of it on YouTube, and it was either in Sadoost or the other documentary, The Val. But there's a scene where Alice and Matt comes in to the volleyball court, and just the way he walks over kind of breaks her down, gives her a kiss, and she's almost crying. She begs for an E.M., and you could just watch her go under and be manipulated, where Keith almost does nothing but look in her eyes like a snake, and you could just watch her go under in about 10 minutes. Do you know what scene I'm talking about? It's quite amazing. Yeah, I remember, because Alice and Matt is just a little bit older than me. So I remember watching Smallville as a teenager, and so she was the recognizable one to me. And I remember thinking like, oh my God, she was on a show when I was a teenager, and she's the powerful one because she has, and the way that he was able to almost crush her in that situation. Did she marry a woman from Canada just to get her a green card, but she's straight? That would offend me. Like, if somebody asked me to marry a woman... He did a lot of things that he asked him to do, because I would say that she's probably an empathic person with a trauma background, just guessing. He like a shark could sniff out that she's a prime target, and the more empathy and the more you care, I think the longer you can stay in the trap because you're going to think it's your fault, and you can see him play her. So, you know, she did some of the most evil things to the other adherents, but then the subject of brainwashing comes up where, you know, maybe she was a really good person that just got super manipulated because of her good qualities, and Keith sniffed that out and used her to do evil things under the guise of helping. It's just, she's such a case study, because, you know, how could someone so uncharismatic and ugly where you have Allison Mack, she's famous, she has everything going for her? What would she need from him? You know, we know what he would need from her, and yet, you can see that the snake catch the predator. Yeah, you know, it's interesting as you're saying this, Doug, I've done a few episodes with Sean Stone, Oliver Stone's son, and he's very aware and awake. Yeah, I would love to talk to him. I can contact you together if you want. That would be great if there's any way I would really like to talk to him. Absolutely, I can message you guys together. But he did a series, and I'm going to paraphrase how he narrated it, but he took it back to movie making, and he said that the director is in charge of how you perceive what's happening. The way the director moves the camera, the way the director decides to focus on one person, and so the director is manipulating the audience's reaction. And the editor too? Yeah, everybody. And when you think about this from a cult perspective, our global perspective, how that consciousness, that collective consciousness is being pulled in one direction to perceive reality as the leader is wanting you to perceive reality, which the leader knows is not the truth, but for their gains. And I am hoping you'll come back because I really want to give you- I'd love to anytime, Bryce. Like the puppet mastery of the son of Sam. I mean, I literally like after I, and I was telling Doug, I don't know if I said on camera, off camera, but it takes a lot to shock my boyfriend because he's been awake for forever, and he had never heard of the process church before, before he started listening to your stuff. And he was like, holy shit, I've never even heard of this before. Like, this is wild. And so the fact that you were able to kind of link things together, and that's what I say to, when I think about education today, they're teaching, and we see it in the general public too, they're teaching people regurgitation, not critical thinking. Not even slightly. No, they're teaching people how to repeat what they've been told versus sit back and connect the dots themselves through critical analysis. Right? So I know there's a lot of people in the Scientology world that say, oh, they weren't Scientologists, they weren't connected. But what you've done, Doug, is you've pulled it back and said, yes, they were. And not only that, if you think about it, that would be the way things work, you know, what like attracts like, or you know, perhaps, you know, if people don't like the idea of a global conspiracy, just think about a lot of people have money, would want to pass that on and protect it amongst themselves, you know. I think a lot of this is done unconsciously too, by the way, I don't think people are planning it out, but you know, like attracts like, and it's, you know, there's so many offshoots, not just the process church, that's an offshoot of Scientology. Keith Reneri, as we talked about from the Nexium cult, stole so much of Scientology. It's almost like the ultimate blueprint. Est was formed by a former Scientologist who stole Hubbard's shit, and then that became Landmark Forum. Yep. So there's, and also as you know, Bryce, like Narcissists or sociopaths, whatever, it's almost like they went to school and read the same playbook because it never varies. So they're not learning it, they're not going to school, they're not in unnecessarily some conscious conspiracy. They just are what they are, and then they perceive a certain way, right? So I don't know where I'm going with this, but it doesn't even have to be a conspiracy theorist. I hate that word, because it makes it sound like you're a nutter. You're just asking questions beyond the official narrative, because it doesn't add up, right? Yeah. But it's not that it's just connecting dots. And if you had a, you know, that would obviously be for any co-leader, government official, or controller, that's the last thing you want to have happen, because if you do teach people that, you can't fucking control them anymore. So connecting dots is how our brains would work anyways, seeing that everything's connected to everything else. So if you have an offshoot like the process, you know, a lot of people take that too far who it all means a secret shit. It's just like it tracks like the playbook is the same, and it's pretty easy to see once you pull out of the actual cults themselves. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And it's wild. You said that about like, that is when I was in a lot of narcissistically abusive relationship. That's why I ended up in trauma therapy. And it goes back to my, I was in a narcissistic system myself. And it goes back to actually, you know, you look at people like Alison Mack, yourself, probably me. A lot of people who get caught up either in a cult or religion or whatever. That's highly abusive and highly controlling. And I hate to say this because I learned this from another cult leader which is Tilda Slott, but she was right about this. She was right about this one thing. She said, when we are little, we are children. We are, I'm paraphrasing how she said this. We are attuned to our guardians. Our parents, whoever is responsible because they keep us alive. We know instinctively as an animal, as a human, as nature that we cannot survive by ourselves. Like puppies follow their mom. If our parents, if our, one of our guardians is dysregulated. So let's say, and it doesn't necessarily mean that your parents a narcissist or a borderline or any, there might just be like alcoholism or arguing, arguing between the parents. If there's any form of dysregulation, the empathic child versus the kind of just a normal child will pick up on that dysregulation and they will try to then form the dysregulation because they're trying to keep their home and their, their space secure and safe because that person is responsible for providing them with the safety. Now, this is all done on a subconscious level. So what happens as adults, as people who dealt with a dysregulated adult was constantly fawning, constantly like nervous and anxiety, like trying to keep everything calm, which a six-year-old, seven-year-old can't do that within it, but that's the natural instinct to try to keep them calm whether that's to get love, whatever that is, is as an adult, we still do that. So we are hyper attuned, we walk into a room and whereas a normal person would sense a dysregulated person and be like, oh, fuck them, they're weird energy out of one, but the empath is going to go to that because that's what they know to do, to instinctively try to fond them, try to keep them calm because that's how they were trained as a child. Even though as an adult, you can walk away. It's all subconscious. And when she, when I saw that clip, I was like, damn it, she's right. She's absolutely right about that. That is for sure what happens. And I think that these dysregulated adults, these narcissists, can spot that in an empath that they're willing to try to make you happy, to give up themselves, to be consciously aware of it. So that's what they're doing. They spot that. I will say, HGTutor did say something on your channel that I was like, holy shit, he's right. And I'm paraphrasing how he said this, so sorry, HGTutor, if I say this wrong. He'll come after you if you don't get it right, so be careful. He said that I was like, ding, ding, ding. I ran out, like, told my boyfriend, I was like, oh my God, this guy just like, I just had a lifeboat moment. He said something along the lines of children that grow up with empathic parents, they're going to be fine as adults. So really it doesn't matter if they're rich, poor, as long as the parents are empathic and are making that child feel safe and secure, then they're going to go on. But kids who don't grow up with empathic parents are the ones that have problems. And I was like, that explains why so many people I know who grew up in super wealthy families now in their 40s are some of the most fucked up people I know. But then there are people I know who grew up borderline poverty and they're the most healthy people I know because it didn't matter really as a child what your parents had. It was the safety they made you feel. Yeah, and the love and the caring. Yeah, this kid who grew up in a mansion, even though he had everything he needed, didn't ever feel safe as a child. But the child who grew up with nothing felt very safe and therefore became a very healthy adult empathic healthy adult. And I know I probably, I didn't say it exactly how he says it, but I was like, oh my God, it's just something just finally registered in me that it really just comes down to love and genuine love and being with kids and when we don't have that as children that sets us up for danger in the future. But then we can take it, we can start to do, listen to these interviews and go to therapy and read these books and really start to figure out, that's what I'm hoping my audience will do, especially for people right now who are in the process of waking up so that you don't fall prey to another con, right? That's challenging because you know, I'm sure you know in your husband that our boyfriend or husband, Bryce. Boyfriend. When is he, soon to be, soon to become my father. I don't know, we'll probably just be, I think we'll be common law every little girl's dream. And you guys love each other, who cares? Yeah. Marriage is just another contract where you got to get in some bite, now the government gets in between you and shit and it's like, leave us alone, man. I mean, don't get me wrong. I say to him, I'm like, I kind of want to dress. You want to do the ritual. I want to do the ritual, but I think we'll probably fall. Yeah, but no, I think we'll probably, it's, I know, listen, he's not going, he's basically my husband, basically, we share everything. So that's awesome. Yeah, but yeah, it's, you do fall prey. Like a lot of times people go from one cult to another cult, don't they? Yeah, because, you know, you said your husband woke up after 9-11, 2001, so he's been seeing this for a while. I'm sure he'd tell you, and you know too, and anybody listening, the rabbit hole goes deep, man, just when you think he got it, you got to keep going and going and going because, you know, both sides of the debate are controlled. Like if you're a controller on the level that they're playing at, they would obviously be smart enough. And like you said, the psychopathic mind somehow seems to have a plan, like a computer program. They can do long-term planning, whereas empathic or normal people, you just want to live your life, be left alone. You're not thinking about, like everyone, Hubbard woke up every day, so how can I control the world and my flock a little bit more each day, right? This is what Bill Gates and these people, I don't fuck, I don't know if I get hit by YouTube, but this is what the- I'll go back, if you need to say it, I'll go back and believe words. So don't worry about it. I'll just keep that out. Like psychopathic people, a lot of them are on the world stage. I don't know, man, they fucking, I completely forgot where we were going with this, Bryce. Like, oh, just about how they would be privy enough to know that the way to lead the opposition is to control it, right? So if you don't think like they do, in other words, this is why I like having HG on. This is why I got a gift out of getting so close to evil, like we said earlier, Hubbard, and getting as close to inside of his mind and his way of thinking. And people like him because I can't without becoming them, because then you can start to wrap your mind around the impossible. I mean, most people go, they can't be doing that because, you know, you would never do that, but they do and they are and they will. So once you can get inside the head like that, you can understand that both sides, the opposition is most likely going to be controlled. This is why it's like for the election, do you want psychopath A or B? Nothing fundamental changes. In my opinion, it's all a ruse. But if you don't get streetwise and go down enough rabbit holes, you could get stuck at, you know, Christian patriots might see through the conspiracy, but then Jesus saves or maybe you're in the queue thing and Trump saves. In other words, it's like you said earlier, I think the end of the rabbit hole is when you finally realize that you have to save yourself. There are no saviors. And if you meet, you know, if you go with your intuition and you meet halfway, unseen forces will come to your aid, but it doesn't mean you have to join a cult. There's help out there, but you have to do it yourself. I think that's what makes us all vulnerable, especially the people that say I've never joined a cult. But then you'll see them place their faith in a false political leader or someone that's going to save them so they don't have to take the longer, harder path of self introspection and basically responsibility. I think what it comes down to is responsibility because you can't be controlled and these controllers can't do anything. If we were in our own power, it's a relationship just like what the narcissist HG would tell you. If you're in your own power, sort of speak, you can't be controlled. So it's an agreement where I will agree to stay blind to my subconscious blind spots so I can take the path of least resistance and sort of pretend to myself that somebody else is going to do the work for me that I need to do. Someone else is going to save me. And I'm only speaking from experience. I don't feel better than anybody. I went through this experience. I was as co-dependent as you can be on my mom and my cult leader. And when I woke up in my 30s, I felt like a child starting over. But that's when I realized we're all dependent on something. We want to be loved. It's hard to take personal responsibility and not blame the governments or your mom or your cult leader or your friend but to pull those projections into you and try to make sense of why the hell I gave my power away. You know, mind you, I was manipulated as a kid. There's that. But there was a certain amount of agreement where I had to subconsciously or maybe even consciously bullshit myself to allow me to keep going along with this because the other alternative is I'd have to make a drastic life change and I'd actually actually have to grow up. I'd have to get out of childhood and actually become responsible. And to me, much of the human race actually doesn't grow up because of the stuff that we're talking about. So we look outside of ourselves for someone else to save us. And so you can't really blame anybody at the end of the day because it doesn't have to be that way. You don't have to do that. You know, People ask me all like, I like what are we, you know, if I talk about this a lot. I love you said this, the controlled opposition. I mean, they always, they always both fund both sides of the war. You don't take 99% of the people on YouTube claiming to be truthers or actually controlled opposition. If you haven't figured that out by now, they're leading you and distracting you. Telling you it's okay. The white hats are in control. Don't worry. Just sit back relax. So I'm like, the Trojan horse is coming in with the new world order guys. Like, you know, and they're like, well, how do we, you know, but my thing, I keep telling people everything I've learned if we want to get rid of this level of malevolent nefarious shit, we have to heal ourselves. Exactly. Because like attracts like, as you said, and they know this, the more hopeless we feel, the more we sink down into those lower. We're going to look to them. Yes. And the more we release that, the more we can't, we can't play in the same game anymore because we're too, we're not a track. We're not like does not attract like in this time. And like the, the law of one says, like there are density, which is the density we're in. You know, every density gives the soul a chance to refine itself. And this is the density of polarity of good and bad God. What do you want to call it? You know, and that creates the friction. And the friction is what's needed for you to understand who you are. It's like, I tell my students it's like a match. A match has everything it needs on it to light, but it cannot light itself unless it's scratched up against the book. Yeah. Good analogy. And so you've got to use these and it's hard to do. And I don't have all the answers. Like I'm still, you know, I feel like the day we figure it all out is when we like peace out. You know, it's like, Yeah. And if anybody says they have all the answers, I've run from them because that's usually a cult guru leader. Exactly. Exactly. I have it all figured out, said Hubbard. You just have to watch, walk the exact path and you don't have to think too much and it's all laid out, son. Man, that's a, that's a real huge, right? Pie too. That's hard to give up though because it, there isn't attraction to having somebody else to believe in and do it for you. I mean, Yeah. It's definitely. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I will say if anybody, one thing I've learned too that I've noticed, if you go into a school or yoga school or dojo or the self-help center and the leader has a name for himself, like Vanguard or what was Hubbard's, the commander. What they, like a, a Commodore, the Commodore, a nickname. That's a huge red flag. Good point. The Indian culture, if someone calls themselves a guru, they're not a guru. All right. They, that they don't, the teacher doesn't put that name on themselves. The students put that name on the teacher and they don't call themselves that. The minute someone starts calling themselves that, run. Yeah. Run away. Run far away because they're not, you know, you are, you are your own guru. You were guru means, darkness to light. You were the one that turns your darkness into light. You lean into the shadow side of yourself. You lean into that darkness yourself to heal it. And when I figure out how to totally do that, I'll already be in that. Then you can form your own cult and teach other people. You can form your own cult. So. And you can say, I actually do have all the answers. Here it is. I actually figured it out, guys. No. And that's, that's some, and I hope the people, you know, one thing I get to with a lot of people, we talk about one last thing because I know we've been going over an hour now. You know, I see all these people, oh, but the Bible, revelations is happening. Prophecy is happening. I'm like, yeah, because the people creating the issues also wrote the Bible. The one who wrote the script knows how to play the script. Read the missing books of the Bible. You're going to have a lot of clarity there. Oh, but the devil wrote the, who told you? Who told you that? What? Constantine of the Council of Nicety in the fourth century, he boiled his wife alive for shits and giggles. This guy was a psychopath. I wouldn't listen to what he's saying. Like this is the research people have to do is to like really understand where they've been fooled. But at the end of the day, you know, planet Earth, according to the law of one, to take it, you know, with a grain of salt or what you will, planet Earth is one of the hardest third-density planets because we take our evil to an extreme that other third-density planets don't take it to. But because we have so much evil, we also, that also means we have that much goodness on the earth as well. Yeah. So anyway, any parting words for today, Doug? I'm, I can't wait for you to come back. I really can't wait to get to the center. Thanks for having me on, Bryce. Anytime. I feel like we just scratched the surface. Yeah. Oh, for sure. No, that was really cool what you had to say. You know, when I was going through like the flashbacks for many, many years when I was coming out the cold, I would have dreams like that where, you know, because when you wake up, just using Scientology as an example, I mean, I thought this was the greatest good and the scale of evil. I'm still unpacking it, you know, like 18 years later. It's really, really deep. So I've had recurring nightmares and my dreams, you know, I could use to that was kind of my subconscious speaking sometimes too. So it was like healing while I was having these really intense dreams. And I would often think about like that, like almost as if I was looking from the outside, not from the Pleiadians or anything. I'm just talking about a metaphor where I felt so dissociated where I was outside looking in at this world. I'm like, would there, if I didn't experience it, I would never believe it if somebody told me that such a place like this actually was real and could be this way and existed just to give you an idea of how kind of outside and I was looking at it. It's just funny what you said because I don't know how it could get any more challenging unless we were in hell itself. But surely, surely there's life and there's life and all sorts of other stuff out there. This has to be one of the shittiest places. Yeah. I mean, I've said that to my friends too, Bryce, that you know, we're still voting and shit or whatever. And it's like, or following Q and it's like, you're so pessimistic and all that. I'm like, no, I'm actually happy for the first time. I'm like out of the, you know, I can actually think for myself. So I'm not pessimistic. I'm just like, you know, that's reality. Like if you bury your head in the sand and don't look at evil, especially with the times we're living in now, we're missing the opportunity for the, for like the great gift. So it's not pessimistic to wake up to the scale of the evil in this world. It's the way out. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, I feel sorry for the people who are really caught up into that group because it's just handing your power over again to something that they think is going to happen. And it's like, you know, I know the whole thing about Kennedy and it's like, if John F. Kennedy Jr. is alive, if he, let's say, if he did fake his death and Jim Morrison. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how does that affect your life? How does it affect you personally? It doesn't. You're just wanting him to come in on a white horse or I say, come in on a spaceship and save you. No, it doesn't. The only people that would affect would be his immediate family, right? Not, not you. So, so it gives you something to believe in rather than have to do again the hard work of saying, holy shit, there's no saviors. I have to actually do this myself. That's where you go into terror zone. Exactly. But that's also the way out, I think, man. Absolutely. If my experience is anything to go by, because like I said, Bryce, I was never a conspiracy theorist. I didn't wake myself up. I got lucky. I mean, every day, there isn't a moment that goes by that I don't, no matter what happens in my life, I never have to go do a Scientology course. I got this man's brain at, you know, shit out of my head. Like, it's great not to be a Scientologist. Such was the devastation of the experience. So, yeah. It's, it's, once you can reflect back on it and be in that place of like, finally, well, something, even though it was hard, that's when, you know, you've done a lot of healing when you really like, worked on yourself. And, and one of my, actually, it might be a John Lennon, Lennon quote, but it's one of my favorite quotes. It's a, it's a, um, a religious person is a person who has never seen hell. A spiritual person is a person who's been to hell and back again. And that's necessary to actually go into that, in order to know yourself. And why, you know, I'm sitting here thinking, why believe in something outside of yourself when they, the, the gift is that, take that and believe in yourself, you know, in the power of, of your divine spark, in your soul. And, and I say this to people all the time, the controllers have done so much to try to control us, hypnotize us, use us. Doesn't that tell you, if you sit back and look at that, doesn't that tell you how powerful you actually are? That's one of the things that Alan Harbor would often say to, and this is why he used a lot. Well, he used a lot of, as you know, a lot of truth. There was a lot of narcissism in there. There was a lot of ideas that I agree with anyways. I always felt like there was something more than the five senses. I wasn't just my body, my brain and personality. I felt that as a kid, when I was out of Scientology, when I was in it, and then when I escaped. So a lot of these cults use, I would say, truths to bring it in. Yeah, to hook you. Well, you have to, because if it's just all bullshit, how is it going to work? And they can't create anything. So he was basic, because narcissists have to kind of tell you who they are. And so he's basically telling you, you're a powerful being. He was constantly telling us that. And I'm going to take from you, because you're powerful. Well, he didn't quite do that though. It's a clever manipulation where that was a truth. He would always say that, because he was a conspiratorialist too. But a lot of that was him running from his own shit that he was doing. And the conspiracy in Scientology is not accurate. It has to do with an alien named Zeno. It's just not on point. But the point is, is like, he would tell us that Scientology offers a spiritual power and look at how powerful you must be, because look at everything society has done to try to take away your power. He would point out certain controllers and stuff to 12 families and all that. So he hits on things where it might resonate with you, but then he's doing the same thing to you. So a lot of these new things will bring you into what might be actual truths, but then that's the hook to invert everything. That's one of the best traps, because Scientology, you know why the Janus Tillham grates and all that? I got to still hold on to it and can't maybe let it go or maybe never. Bryce, it is so powerful to feel like you are totally thinking for yourself. Hubbard's not telling us anything. He even says all the right words. He says, Think for yourself. Don't believe anything I write. Are you here or that I wrote? Unless you yourself, check it out for yourself. He's saying all the right things, but at the same time, there's exact policy you have to follow. There's a contradiction. There's incredible rules and regulations to not do that, but you can't fucking see it. So if you tell Scientologists they're brainwashing out thinking for themselves, they'll point out to the policies where it says, here's who the controllers are. Hubbard says right here in the paragraph, always think for yourself. Don't just listen to me. So he says the right things, but the mind control, the hypnotism, and a million other elements to trap your mind. Unless you know about that stuff, it's a very, very clever, seductive trap. There are many things, but stupid is not one of them. And as you're saying that, I'm like, that's Q today. That's what Q does. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, exactly. Don't believe me. That's true. You should never take any. I tell my viewers all the time, don't take my word for it. Do your own research. But saying that Hubbard is incensoring and telling you can't look at things that contradict what he says. So it's the subtlety there, the subtle. It's subtle. Like Q would give you 90% truth. They'll open up you to a conspiracy and they'll lead you in the cul-de-sac and that brings us back to... You got to think like the controllers think they're going to have both sides controlled and they're going to know, especially by pulling the... I don't even know, P-A-N-D-E-M-I-C. Especially since pulling that off. Don't you think that they're going to know that X amount of people are going to wake up and are waking up? So obviously they're going to have the opposition control. This is what they do. It's like a playbook that we're talking about. Yeah. So know that if something feels close, you still got to do it all yourself and not get locked into a group because Q took a lot of people that were questioning the official narrative rightfully so. And then it was created to not only lead them down a cul-de-sac, but to make the people that can see through all of it look like nutters because they compare those people to the idiots. Right. You know, you just got to start thinking like Hubbard and these freaks. At least that's what helped me get out of this. It's a war. It's the art of war. Like sunsues. And they're new. And if you look at this astrologically, we are coming to a time, if people believe in astrology, where we're coming to a new timeline of understanding. The controllers know that too. Yeah. And they are into this stuff. The astrology, they call it, and they try to, you know, plan events according to dates and symbols and all this shit. That's why in World War II, Hitler partnered with the Pope at the time and created what they called the Hesse Act, which started the propaganda that all these occult tools were of the devil. So the common man wouldn't know how to read them anymore so that they have that control. So that they can say, oh, this is forecasted to come. So we know it's coming. So now we have to divert attention so that we don't lose control. So that we use these tools and then they debunk them as not true and conspiracy nutters, which keeps the public going. Well, anybody that figures it out, they say, well, that's also in movies and shit everywhere. So, oh, you watched a movie, this or that. But the controllers, the real ones, not the puppets that we see, they're absolutely occultists and in all this reading the signs and know when mind control masters, you know, they study all this. They study the psychology of us. They hear it. They know how the soul works. They know how to play it. They are super smart. And that's why I want to shake people because it and I tell people, and you know, we're like, oh, no, well, what you're watching is a movie. Get your popcorn. I'm like, yes, you're watching your worlds while the New World Order just Yeah. And who would tell you that? The fucking the controllers creating that controlled opposition. Yeah. I would agree with them about quite a bit of the conspiracy information, which is the bait in the cheese, just like we were talking about that Hubbard uses and any good manipulator uses to bring you in with some, you know, maybe even 90% truth. But it's a 10% bullshit. And they yeah, it's so sad too because a lot of these people legitimately are seeing through the bullshit media, but they haven't sussed, as they say in the matrix, how deep the rabbit hole actually goes. In other words, start thinking like the controllers and I think you can start to suss them. Yeah. And if they replace, all they've done is replace like CNN or Fox with Telegram and YouTube. Yeah. Yeah. And that's not, you know, and I tell people my channel time, if you got to turn me off and go to research, turn me off and go to research, like you need to empower yourself. But yeah, it, you know, and I try to, I quote Aristotle a lot when I say it's a sign of an intelligent mind when you can entertain an idea without accepting it. But that's the thing is like, can you sit back and observe something that's just interesting for a while? I mean, when first started dropping, I remember my boyfriend was like, this is interesting. And he was like, let's just see how this plays out. Yeah, exactly. And I liked how he said, but let's just see how this plays out. Let's not get attached to it. Let's not, let's just watch it for a moment. Let's observe it and just see what happens. And, you know, I just, in that group, that the woke, the super left do as well. They practice censorship. They practice cancel culture. I was observing a group on telegram doing this. And, you know, there's that whole theory that Melania is also really Diana too. And that the real Melania is a Romanoff from Anastasia and all this this hoopla. And somebody had gone in and said, okay, well, let me look into this. A Russian girl had gone in and done some deep research, went to the archives, and she came back on this telegram channel. She's like, I don't believe this is accurate because this is what I found. And she got blocked from that group. Yeah, they don't want to hear it. And I want to hear it. And so it's, and I want to shake people be like, don't you see that you are behaving the same way that the people you claim to hate or dislike are behaving? You're painting people black and white, all of Hollywood's black. No, it's not. There are some really good people in Hollywood that are stuck in this crappy cult or that are just trying to make art. They just want to, you can't tar everyone with the same feather. We need, that's why the court of law has a proof, not hearsay. Right, you have to, you know, it's just, I just really hope people can kind of just take your independence. It is hard. You know, I will say when I was in church as a kid, they had this poster that I've always remembered. And I think it's true. One thing I learned from church that I think is true. What is popular is not always right. And what is right is not always popular. I'll do you one better. The multitude is always wrong. Well, isn't it? Who said, like, if you are agreeing with the masses, it's time to reflect on your beliefs. Was that like Bill Hicks or was it? It might have been Mark Twain or it was somebody who said, if you were, he also says it's easier to fool someone than convince them they've been fooled, which is true. You know, these trite little phrases that I grew up hearing while I was in the cult, live my life meant nothing. But when I got out, I was like, fuck, I understand exactly what these made me finally. Holy shit, they're true. These basic simple. Yeah. Even if you're in the cue cult, you think you're the counterculture and blah, blah, blah. In the know. In the know, look around. If you're agreeing with everybody in this organization, reflect on your own beliefs for a minute. Right? Right. You know. So anyway, Doug, I don't get close to two hours now. So I'll thank you so much, Brian. So it's a great conversation, and I got caught up in it. I know, I'm so happy we're going to be collaborating more. And I want to recognize, I'm going to put the links to Doug's channel in the description box below. I also really quickly, because we, Doug and I, both deal with censorship and all sorts of, we're really running up hill and water, trying to put this stuff out. And you said this on one of your shows, and I was like, yes, Doug, because I have said this on one of my shows as well. I don't want to solely be on Rumble or these alter. I love them. Grateful for these alternative platforms. But the main war is happening on YouTube. And so we need these voices, even if we're shadow bands. So guys, please make sure to share Doug's channel to share this video, to get his work out there with your friends and family. If you want to support Doug off of, since we don't, you know, it's hard for us. You do have this, it's almost like a Patreon, but it's not, what is it, Kofi? What's this company called, Doug? It's Kofi, where I don't have to monetize a channel. I don't have it monetized. I'm not demonetized, but I just don't want to hit monetize people with ads. Practice what you preach, right? And a bunch of other reasons. But yeah, it's just a place where people can throw some money if they want to, but I don't really give a shit. Well, I joined it because I know how much to do this, to do this work. And I know how many hours it takes. And I know your dedication to you guys. If you are wanting to join and help support Doug, I'm also going to put this link down in the description box as well. So you can help support his work and help the healing really take off and support him in that way. So, and guys, any questions you have for Doug, please put this down in the description box below. I am going to put this up on YouTube. I'm going to go through and edit. I'm going to add pictures and I'm going to bleep some words that I've said. You've said just to keep it just, but it'll also be up on Rumble. I put everything up on Rumble too. So please go and ask any questions. If there's something in this interview that struck you and you have a question asked, then I can ask. We can talk about it next time. And I really, I'm so excited to get into your, your conversation about the summer of PsyOps. And whatever you want to talk about, man, that stuff is fascinating. So anyway, guys, well, thank you again, Doug. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I, you guys, we will both, both be seeing you all very soon. Have a wonderful day everybody. Bye.