 Aloha, I am your host, Winston Welch, and delighted you are joining us again today for this special session of Out and About, the show where we explore a variety of topics, organizations, and events with the people who feel them in our city, state, country, and world. As a disclaimer, any views or opinions expressed by me are strictly my own and not connected with any organization. That said, joining me today in the studio, I am delighted to have Dr. Brian Vagnall, President of the Greater Waikiki Branch of the Outdoor Circle, and a special guest, Ralph Q., from quieter Oahu, to talk about issues of noise and its impact on health, well-being, and livability in Honolulu, and elsewhere for that matter, and what we might do to help reduce the causes and enforce laws already in place. So with that said, gentlemen, welcome to the show, and thanks for being my guest today. Thank you. Thanks for the invitation. Well, this is an issue. I do sit on a neighborhood board, and I've gone to others, and I watch Ollelo and various media that talk about noise a lot, and I also am a resident of Oahu, and sometimes the noise is absolutely deafening and insane. So tell us, if you would, what is quieter Oahu, and how did it start, and why did it start? Well, probably about nine or ten years ago, I had the occasion to read an article posted in Kokua Line in the Star Advertiser, and the title of the article was, HPD's War on Noise is Alive and Well. And they provided statistics that showed that HPD, over a five-year period, had issued a total of 4,048 citations. Now while we might look at that and go, that's a lot of tickets that are being issued, if you put it into perspective, first, it was a five-year period, so that's roughly 800 a year. Second, there are approximately 2,000 sworn officers on the Honolulu Police Department Force, so if you divide that 800 by 2,000 sworn officers, that's roughly four-tenths of a ticket per officer issued. And then if you run it out to the average 20-year career of a police officer, that means that each police officer is issuing only eight noise citations in a 20-year career. And just walking outside in the neighborhood and listening to the boom cars and listening to the illegal exhaust and listening to the loud motorcycle mufflers, I said, this just isn't right. And so I began to do some exploration on the causes of noise, more about the culture of noise. And what I found was there is very little information that applies locally to who do you call for certain noise problems, who has jurisdiction over that noise issue versus another noise issue. And I found that there was a niche for a website that simply provided information and served to educate the public. So while we're talking about that right now, that website is www.QuieterOahu.com. Yes. Or is it .org? It's a .com. So for those who might be spelling challenge, it's Q-U-I-E-T-E-R-O-A-H-U.com. So you'll be able to find a great wealth of information there that then you started this about 15 years ago? About 10 years ago. About 10 years ago. So you're constantly added and updated and learned a lot about noise, obviously, over this period of time. So you were just looking at it from a mathematical perspective and saying enforcement isn't jiving with the vast amount of noise you were just casually observing by walking in front of your house. Exactly. And so it got to the point where it bothered you so much. You started a website, which is, as I have said many times on this show, when someone says they should do something about that or why don't they do something about that, they is you. And in this case, we've got the example right here of someone who said enough already, I'm going to take matters and do something about it and become a resource for the community. I apologize for that, sir. And people might say, OK, well, Ralph, it's not high on the priority. We might be attacked by Martians tomorrow or the police have to pull over drunks or stop domestic violence or whatever. Why is noise an important issue that actually needs to be brought up for any reasons? I'm guessing that health is probably among them that we're not even aware of the health risk associated with noise beyond just irritation. Well that's true. And I like to draw the parallel to the early 50s and to the 60s and really even into the early 70s. We didn't really think too much about smoking. And yet now we know what a great health hazard and health risk that smoking is. And more specifically, in the 70s, we weren't too concerned with the secondhand smoke of smokers because we're not the ones that are smoking. There's just a little smoke around us. So now we know that even secondhand smoke is a danger to public health. And we've taken action accordingly. Well I think we're in that same position for noise. No one really associates noise with being a health hazard or a health risk. But in 1999, the World Health Organization of the United Nations published a report entitled Guidelines for Community Noise. And in that report they made the very specific statement discussing the or statements discussing the adverse effects of noise on residential, social, work and learning environments and the negative impact on each of those. And they specifically cited health risk associated with noisy environments ranging from mental health issues to cardiovascular issues to stress issues, all of which are disruptive, all of which are negative but overall the effect on the quality of life of people who are exposed to noise on a continuing basis. And that's an important point and I think Dr. Ragnall, your branch of the Greater Waikiki Outdoor Circle is one of its focuses is livability and livability is certainly impacted by noise. Now you live in a high rise building so you're not at street level getting noise from the buses but are you in fact impacted by noise where you live? Yes, well I live in Waikiki and I live on the 30th floor and these loud vehicles, you don't hear the other vehicles. Cars have got a lot quieter in recent years. You don't hear them so much. But these, the emergency vehicles particularly but also these altered motorcycles and cars, they travel up and come right through the windows at all times of night. So noise is an interesting thing if you know the physics of it, it doubles with the closer you go. So it's a logarithmic scale so loud noises really do annoy and when you get down below another level it's quite livable and so that's it, there's a threshold I think of noise that becomes a health issue and you notice it and you wake up and you don't sleep and you get grumpy and children wake up and all that kind of thing. Have you woken up from actual street noise? Yes, yes, yes many times and so I'm on both Alawai Boulevard and Kala Kawa Avenue and Makali, there couldn't be three more noisier streets and it's noticeable that it's the violators that you hear, you don't hear the normal cars and the normal buses. So the vast majority of people are law abiding and non-sociopathic shall I say, but let's go to ambulances, surely we have to make an exception for ambulances and police vehicles to blast that siren which could cause a heart attack honestly, sometimes I hear it so loud but you'll have people that will say this is a safety concern, it's non-negotiable, we have to make it super loud so that everybody can get out of the way and I've noticed a new multi-tiered noise level now which is a woo woo woo woo and a very high one and a medium one and everything in between. How do you respond to something that says we have to have this for public safety? Well you're absolutely correct, we do and as our culture and our society continues to mature and evolve, there are certain aspects and particularly on Oahu and within Hawaii where we live in such congested areas, it's necessary to provide the safety features on emergency vehicles for the most part, simply for public safety, but that being said I think there are other times, 3 a.m. in the morning, that it probably isn't necessary for a fire truck or an emergency vehicle an ambulance to go screaming down Alawai Boulevard blaring full on the sirens that it's equipped with. Now the only caveat I will add to that is that in many instances municipalities have to do that regardless of the time or day simply because of their exposure to liability should the unlikely event occur that there's an injury as a result of them speeding to perform their emergency service and the first thing that would be called out in court is did you have a warning siren in place? A super loud warning siren in place. And the more they are sued the louder the sirens become. I believe there's been a couple of lawsuits because I've noticed a significant increase in the volume and complexity of the noise but now Brian where you're living what would you say is the breakdown of cars that are equipped with these things and motorcycles versus emergency vehicles? The loudest one by far are the fire trucks when they not only have their sirens but they have their horns and that is really really loud and that travels a long way and comes through windows. The sirens next and then the motorcycles and the cars but there's a new it's got much worse than the last couple of years and so there's now a lot of cars you see that have been equipped like they don't have a muffler at all and they make such a loud noise that particularly down in Waikiki which is very urban now we're hearing these it's like you're at a racetrack it's that loud and I can see them from my balcony and you can hear them miles away they go across the Makali bridge they go on Capulani or up there and you can hear them a very long way and that's an indication that that is a very loud noise probably loud enough to damage your hearing if you were close enough. Well and let's take a look at that because we had the first one as you mentioned the guidelines which are 20 years old now by the World Health Organization on our slide number one hearing impairment so you could lose hearing because of this interference with spoken communication how many times have you had to cover your ears when you're just on the street and can't and can't talk anymore sleep disturbances as you remember cardio vascular okay so can give you can give you a heart attack maybe if it's too loud or scary just anecdotally one of the things that has happened since that report was published there have been recorded instances of people who have suffered from collapsed lungs from being in proximity to exceptionally loud noise so in addition to the cardiovascular issues which literally means if you have a weak heart or if you have a heart condition that is maybe assisted mechanically and you're exposed to extremely loud noises that could cause a heart attack. Wow that's shocking but not completely surprising and I believe two of the five most recently recorded cases of collapsed lungs occurred in either bar settings where there were amplified speakers blaring and rock concerts and in those environments noise can go as high as 120 to 140 dB which may sound like Greek but that just translates to it's really loud. Okay you talk about that DB and what is a DB? DB is a decibel it's the unit of measurement for sound in terms of how loud sound is and also there's a power component but for our purposes we just consider the loudness component but if you go and tell someone the temperature today although certainly not in Hawaii is zero degrees centigrade they may look at you like you just landed from another planet but that's just another unit of measurement for saying it's the freezing point or 32 degrees Fahrenheit. Okay so there are systems of measurement that we are familiar with other systems of measurement that we are not familiar with decibel is one of those systems of measures that can be very very technical as a logarithmic scale there's some very complex formulas used to derive sound its power its effect but we try on our website to present a listing of common sounds and their associated DB level so just as you can understand zero degrees centigrade is 32 degrees Fahrenheit you see 80 dB and you say that's common street noise or zero dB that's the threshold of hearing or 30 dB that's a very very quiet office 50 dB is a regular office noise so right now we're about 50 dB just probably closer to 40 in this in this in this room which is very sound control but our conversation probably peaks out of about 60 dB I could break out my noise meter but I start screaming or start screaming well when we come back we're gonna look at some some of those breakdowns of decibels and what is what is there we're gonna talk about how we deal with who to call for unwanted noise and what types of ordinances and statues there are and what our our viewers might be able to take action on to make this and then what what some of your goals are for quieter Oahu and how people might be able to get involved with your organization yes sir one thing we have mentioned is occupational noise that's been regulated for many decades so people who are working in noisy environments that's well understood the health effects of noise particularly in damaging your hearing but other effects to there are many many many laws and statutes and then generally adhere to under the occupational safety and OSHA and so when you talk about occupational noise that is well done you see these guys around with things wearing things in there is they protecting their ears so maybe we will we can reference those and they're probably a reference it is on the website but on the slide we'll be using to show some of the DB levels to common noises we also have a couple data points where it relates to the OSHA standard okay or the occupational health safety and health administration standard perfect segue into what we were just talking about dr. Bagnell and we will be back in a moment with very important issue very important guests who are out and care about our world so I am delighted to have dr. Brian Bagnell and Ralph Q from quieter oahu.com so during our break you can go to quieter oahu.com and find out a lot more information and follow us as we continue this conversation on the think tech live streaming network series we'll be back in a minute hi I'm Rusty Kamori host of beyond the lines on think tech Hawaii my show is based on my book also titled beyond the lines and it's about creating a superior culture of excellence leadership and finding greatness I interview guests who are successful in business sports and life which is sure to inspire you in finding your greatness join me every Monday as we go beyond the lines at 11 a.m. Aloha Aloha I'm Wendy Lowe and I'm coming to you every other Tuesday at 2 o'clock live from think tech Hawaii and on our show we talk about taking your health back and what does that mean it means mind body and soul anything you can do that makes your body healthier and happier is what we're going to be talking about whether it's spiritual health mental health fascia health beautiful smile health whatever it means let's take healthy back Aloha okay we are back we're talking about noise in Honolulu it's causes its effects and what we can do about it we're here with Ralph Q. from quieter oh oh calm and Dr. Brian Bagnall president of the Greater Waikiki Outdoor Circle so thank you again gentlemen for being on the show and and raising this issue and making this fabulous website quieter oh oh calm and we were looking at some of the who WHO documented effects for 20 years hearing impairments and interference with communication sleep problems cardiovascular disturbances you added collapsed lungs disturbances in mental health of course because we all go crazy and mad when that happens negative social behavior and annoyance reactions I'm sure people just want to punch someone sometimes when they're on that scooter and task performance so as we go down and we look at these things some of these decibels that we might look at here and if you could explain to this so you said before the break that we're talking about now 60 decibels probably around 60 60 BB okay and we have a slide on that one that which shows where we're at this is a good one to move into first okay sure we have a lot of people who use our contact form on the website to let us know what they're experiencing in the neighborhoods and this is a collage of what represents the sounds sources of noise that we hear the most in the top left and top right you see motorcycles of the second row left and right you see these incredibly large speakers that are fitted into what are colloquially called boom cars okay and in the center you see a gas blower landscaping equipment we hear on the floor is down at the bottom you see the exhaust that have become so pervasive on the the small import vehicles and then you even see a rooster there because we hear a lot about animal noise yes and amongst those the question is you know who do I call how do I report is there a law that covers this because when I first began the website what we would hear most is we need more laws to cover noise so that we can get these these offenders off the street and we come out immediately well we really don't need more laws we have plenty of laws on the books that cover almost any kind of source of noise that we experience day-to-day while we don't have unfortunately is the requisite enforcement of those laws which I think people are surprised that there's any laws on this because I remember that the chickens came up on our neighborhood board and this was a source of endless discussion and who was in charge of the chickens and capturing the chickens of course sorry to say the chickens are coming back but to roost but I've always wondered how does how do these specific aftermarket noise making appliances installed on mopeds or other vehicles how do they pass a safety check you cannot have too dark of windows to pass your safety check how is it and you mentioned police enforcement and so it's probably a lower priority but if they were stopped for speeding or whatever would they not automatically be given a citation as well for one of these aftermarket vehicle you would think I don't know if you can call up the slide that has the noise laws the noise laws okay yeah we can cut some lots of laws on the different things that we have there you go okay just very quickly where you see on the left hand column roh that's revised ordinances of Honolulu okay further down HRS Hawaii revised statutes okay so these are just a sampling of the laws that are on the books today the first one for example is entitled prohibited noise it would have effect on the boom cars on the loud auto stereos and this is perhaps one of the simplest ordinances to understand because it simply says if a police officer can stand 30 feet from the source of the noise in other words your car and hear noise then it is too loud and a citation can be issued and I believe after the third citation the fines go as high as a thousand dollars and confiscation of the equipment but you will never have an HPD officer enforce that ordinance you can call as many people have the officer will respond they will hear the noise and they may even say to you yeah that's really loud but they won't issue a citation and when you ask them why they respond because I have officers discretion on when I do and do not issue a citation which is probably true for a lot of things like speeding how about if my neighbors are having a party or maybe they like to sit out in their driveway with their boombox on sitting in the car and just there I don't know just sitting out in the car and I call the cops same same scenario the same scenario for parties in particular that can get really loud really quickly and if you call the officer in most cases they will go over and say turn this down a little bit turn it back yeah but there are two conditions one if they're just having a party and being loud and the other is if they're having a party and but beforehand they went to the Department of Health and requested a noise waiver they can specifically say to the Department of Health on this day between these hours we're going to be having this type of celebration and the Department of Health will issue a waiver for you to have that noise for that period of time so when you call the officer and have them investigate it's always good to say and if they are loud in your opinion would you check and verify that they have a noise waiver in place okay I guess the masses don't know that and so you mentioned the Department of Health so actually because this is a obviously a health issue from all of the ill effects from the World Health Organization is this something where we should be pursuing you know you said we don't need more more laws in this but it's a health matter so is it is it appropriate that we would put this under health under health laws rather than under public safety laws yes and no there are several agencies that have jurisdiction over different types of noise for example if it's within your neighborhood if it's a residential issue like loud noise if it's a mobile issue such as mufflers on cars automobiles trucks or stereos and automobiles and trucks HPD has jurisdiction so generally speaking if I'm suffering from ill effects of noise even to the point where someone's just revving an engine in the driveway just just to do it should I call the police as a general complaint you call the police as a general rule if on the other hand it's construction noise or fixed noise we had a contact she'd come in just the other day about a very very loud I think it was an air conditioning system or a scrubber on top of a building okay fixed noise construction noise if you call HPD there's nothing they can do because Department of Health has jurisdiction over that type of noise okay so if you want to report an animal that's causing noise whether it's barking or crowing roosters I believe it's still it was on the process of being changed but at the last I read it was a little SPCA has jurisdiction over that noise or the Humane Society or the Humane Society okay exactly well and finally just to round out but if it's a fixed location that serves alcohol yes then it's under the purview of the liquor commission okay so so all of these things are probably broken down on your website we do and you can and you have telephone numbers there and who to call about telephone numbers and emails okay and Brian what are some noise control enforcement options that you might suggest I think the situation is so out of control now it's a bit like the fireworks people are saying it's illegal and you can't and you have the police selling the licenses I think the noise thing has got so out of control I think we need an entirely new look at it I'd like to see some kind of commission I'd like to see maybe a lawsuit brought against the city for failure to you know stop the noise pollution or adequately control it so I think we need some new thinking maybe our neighborhood boards are getting together I would like to see in Europe they've got these automatic noise recorders that they put at intersections and they are recording the actual noise level rather than people having to report it I think there's we need new thinking it's so out of control and people are so upset about it it's the number one issue in neighborhood boards and the police are issuing thousands of citations for jaywalking and 130 bucks a pop plainclothes policemen against people but the cars thing they don't want to do it it's too complicated the number one complaint that we receive on our website is the out of control motorcycle noise from the illegally modified exhaust followed by the automobile and truck illegally modified exhaust followed by the horrifically loud super amplified speakers and stereos and automobiles is that is that breakdown on your website available to us those types of statistics well we have a noise blog so anyone can go and see what your neighbors are talking about and what they're complaining about in terms of the noise they are experiencing and our comments and our recommendations and they can and they can go on your website quieteroahu.com for a lot more information than we've been able to cover today. We also ask folks when you submit a contact form you're given the option to opt in to our mailing list so that we can provide info on noise and related issues but more importantly we hope that as we approach 500 400 300 people on our email distribution which represents you consider the average household of two or three people that could be up to 1500 people that that distribution reaches then we're going to start email campaigns to the legislature to the city to the city council and let them know that we've had it with the noise and we are a block of people that know that there are laws in place that are not being enforced and we expect the legislature and the city council and the office of the mayor and if necessary the police commission to insist on enforcement of existing laws. And there you have it I unfortunately we are out of time but that is a perfect summation of where we're at now I think also a basic problem here lack of aloha so folks if you've got a noise making machine and you love to make noise find an appropriate place where it's quiet or maybe you could just do it with some headphones and on a keyboard or something and just pretend that it's that it's you're infecting everybody else but it is a real problem so if you're doing it cut it out and show some aloha to your neighbors we've had a very short terrific discussion with Ralph and Dr. Bagnall. Quieter Oahu.com is the website to go to for more information I would love to have you back for a further discussion on this and maybe some updates as time goes by but for now we have to say aloha and thank you very much and thank you I am Winston Welch this is out and about on ThinkTech Live streaming network series here in Pioneer Plaza we want to give a great shout out to Ray Sangaling our floor manager and also to Robert McLean our broadcast engineer and Jay Fidel who puts it all together so I will see you here every other Monday for more of ThinkTech out and about aloha everyone