 Thank you everyone for coming we're going to get started straight away just to make sure that we can keep on schedule. Of course today we have the Q&A panel with the Drupal Association founding director, chair and CEO. We are very very lucky to have them at Drupal South Sydney. Join me very quickly in just a round of applause to say thanks for coming along. So joining us today first of all is a man who should need no introduction but just in case our first panelist is Dries Bertert. He is of course the creator of the Drupal Project first released all the way back in 2001 and in addition to serving as the founding director of the Drupal Association Dries also serves as the chief technology and strategy officer and co-founder of Acquia. He has been a member of Drupal.org for 22 years and 11 months and he initially I've found this out in my research and please fact-check me as I go. Initially the plan was to call the project Dorp which is Dutch foot village. Yeah sort of. Yeah it's like do you want me to talk about it? Yeah. Alright so my original website was an intranet and when I finished college I moved out of my dorm and I wanted to move our intranet to the public domain or to the public internet I should say and so I needed a domain name because as an intranet you didn't need a domain name and so I wanted to register dorp.org which is Dutch for small village or community but I made a typo I switched the O in the R and ended up registering drop.org and I'm like wow I'm rich because it's like a four-letter domain name and English words and it was still available so I ended up with drop.org instead of dorp.org and that led to Drupal and so on and on and on. So you can use that if things don't work out with this Drupal thing. You've got a room full of people here who are ready to be. I still have the domain name yeah. We can all be Dorp users and developers and this can easily become Dorp South I better go and register that. So a quick opening question for Dries. When Drupal sends a web page if for those of you who don't know it includes a bit of metadata which sets the expiry date for the content to Dries's birthday November 19 1978. Now we heard a bit this morning about the reasons why Drupal was created and how you got started but I'd just like to challenge you quickly did you secretly create the Drupal project push it to global popularity powering 14% of the top 10,000 websites worldwide and then went on to create the Drupal Association with 1.4 million members. Simply so no one would forget your birthday. Almost. I was actually an experiment in subliminal messaging to see if I would get any birthday cards as it worked but it's kind of a crazy idea because if you think about all the Drupal sites in the world and then you know basically every second Drupals around the world must be serving I don't even know thousands and thousands of pages every second and so my birthday is sent around the world all the time you know yeah and yeah no birthday cards sorry okay and by the way I didn't put my own birthday in oh it isn't yeah no I didn't like so another contributor actually added my birthday just see you know just wanted to make that clear on the record okay all right well speaking of on the record we're gonna go to our next panelist now which is of course not other than Tim Doyle Drupal Association CEO. Tim has an extensive career in non-profit and government having previously shepherded a public sector technology startup in the US into an impactful non-profit with over 85 million dollars in annual revenues. Tim is now working on executing the Association's strategic three-year plan and we'll certainly hear more about that on this panel. My opening question for Tim and just a reminder that this is on the record and being recorded you've now you've been you've been doing a little bit of travel that's brought you to Australia finally but you've been in Singapore you've been in India you've come all the way from the US. Why is the Australian and New Zealand Drupal community your favorite? So this is on the record and being and being recorded? Yes. It is the Australian New Zealand community is definitely one of my most favorite communities among many. You know I think in brief I'll say I when I first heard about when I first came to Drupal and heard about Drupal South and it's I think it's the longest-running Drupal event in this area. Consistently people talk about Drupal South being a great event and then when my new chair of the Drupal Association was from Australia I thought it would be very advantageous for me to be here and and to kiss up to I mean to explain what we're doing. Well thank you very much for coming we're very happy to have you here and of course the final panelist is none other than our own Owen Lansbury. Owen is the current chair of the Drupal Association and chair at previous next. Thank you for sponsoring Drupal South. Owen is part of the team that helped found Drupal South as an organization or Dorp South as we should be referring to it and we're immensely grateful for the work that that Owen and others put into making this this possible. Owen is also the vice president of communications at the Mountain Safety Collective a non-profit that produces back country condition reports and avalanche forecasting a role he credits as helping him prepare for the life and death decisions that he makes of the chair of the Drupal Association every day. Owen achieved notoriety internationally when he and his tour guide were very nearly eaten alive by a snow leopard while skiing in India. Okay on the way to Drupal Konmumbai. Thankfully when the snow leopard saw Owen it ran off into the woods. So opening question for Owen. How has your proven dominance over Wildcats helped you to become a better leader in the Drupal Association? Meow. Thank you that will take that will take that as the whole answer. So quickly very very quickly I'll introduce myself for those of you I don't know. I'm the managing director and co-founder of an enterprise Drupal host called Einstein. I am the treasurer at Drupal South and chair of the newly formed Drupal Asia Steering Committee. I don't have to answer any of these silly profile questions so we will move right along. Really quickly what is the Drupal Association? I'll put this in my own words really quickly but guys please jump in if I get anything wrong. It is the non-profit working to advance Drupal. Dries spoke a lot about this in his keynote this morning. It oversees Drupal Konmumbai, the certified partner program. A lot of the technical infrastructure that powers Drupal, Drupal.org, GitLab and so on. There are 15 permanent association staff and is it 13 board members? Yep. And if you want to know more about the association go to Drupal.org slash association. There is a bit of a format for this. In advance of the session I reached out to parts of the community in the Australia NZ channel on Drupal Slack. If you are not in the Drupal Slack and you're not in that channel please join the 663 members making it the 42nd most populist channel in Drupal Slack and I believe the most populist region focused channel. So get on board help us get to 700 and we can show those people over in hashtag testing whose boss. If you have any question you'd like the panel to answer you can scan that QR code, there's a Slido link or you can drop into the Slack and post it in there. We're not going to be able to get to every question but we will do our very best to try. So let's jump straight into the first question and please feel free to whoever wants to answer just jump in and answer. Is there any update on the association's plans to provide dedicated funding to Drupal core development that was presented by Owen in his session in Brisbane in 2022? To be clear it was not a plan it was a concept that's now being socialized and Tim do you want to talk about that? Sure. We're a couple things we're doing to and I take a little bit bigger view on this question which is not just direct funding but how do we prompt innovation? So we're making changes to our Drupal certified partner program to make that about contributions to focus on companies that are contributing and then at the same time to raise revenue to stabilize the association's revenue and allow us to invest monies in innovation. Exactly where we've been doing some some tests of where investments in innovation would work well and and ideas like Pitchburg was one of those. The health dashboard that Trice mentioned earlier is one of those. Where we make those strategic investments will be determined by the board going forward based on where we think we can have the biggest impact. That's about as far as we've gone in our thinking in terms of the association's plans for funding contribution. I would just add that historically there's been nervousness or we've been skittish for the Drupal association to get involved with these things but I really do believe that we need to give the Drupal association a license to help innovate. It doesn't mean all the innovation is going to come from the Drupal association but they can certainly help fund more contributors and maybe even core committers and I think that would be a very healthy thing to do. And I'll just add one final thing so I did do a talk at FOSSTEM in February that goes into a lot of detail about these types of things and a point that I made is that contribution has never been free and it has been funded by organizations whether it's aqua or previous next or Salsa who've really done a great job in the the past couple of years to kind of embed that into their own culture but that's been funded by those companies and everyone else is benefiting from from that internal funding. What we're trying to do with the DCP in particular is to raise the awareness of how you can create that model within your organization if open source is at the core of your business and the simplest way to think about it is that if you rely on open source then by contributing into those projects you are going to elevate the actual business side of what you're doing it's not a cost so that's just something I wanted to pan on. Okay great thank you. All right the next question it's been three years since Slack gave the Drupal community three months of enterprise subscription for free we have a trove of information and discussions accessible in our search history. Does the DA have a contingency plan if Slack withdrew this offer and we were suddenly locked out of our search history? Right so and I used Slack for the first time when I came to the Drupal Association a year and a half ago so I'm still learning about Slack. My understanding in looking at why we use Slack I think community members set up the initial Slack channels initially and the sense I got is two things one is that and I think a posture of the Drupal Association is to let people vote with their feet and then support where they go with that right so we don't have and this my sense of the community is that the community in general has a very pragmatic view about what's the best way to advance Drupal and what tools do we need to kind of help facilitate the community's interactions. Slack seems to be working right now I know there are other alternatives out there where we've had no plans yet to have kind of like dogmatically pursue opens everything open source no matter what and I think we kind of want to get a sense of where the if the community is going somewhere if if they were to pull back of the free offering that would be very expensive and we would have to look for alternatives and I guess it's eight dollars a user you know if they charge us there's no way a month there's no way obviously the Drupal Association could fund that for the height of our community so we would then have to make plans for what to do but we don't currently have any plans to to move off Slack or or look for alternatives. Okay thank you. What is the plan sorry sorry what is the plan for the Drupal project to remain competitive? Well I kind of touched upon that a little bit in my presentation but it's like basically at the highest level it's accelerating innovation as I mentioned like I think everything starts with Drupal being a great product that people actually want to use because people don't really join because of the community I mean some people do but most people join because they have a problem to solve and Drupal is the best tool to solve it and so that's why we need to drive innovation and secondly it's driving marketing you know as I talked about like we need to tell the world about all the great things that Drupal does and so at a high level that is the plan as I mentioned now in the day-to-day tactics there is you know a hundred different things that we need to do to actually live up to that plan from improving our fundraising capabilities so we can spend more money on marketing and spend money on innovation to improving our tools to like there's so many things that are now part of the plan I think for me what's exciting is that we've spent a lot of time working on a plan with the Drupal Association we we said goals and metrics you can go look at the metrics and we're tracking the metrics and we're driving various actions for each of the strategic goals and anyway Tim is on a great job putting that all together and you know driving the team to focus on that thank you and when I saw this question what what's front of mind to me is the marketing the product marketing strategy and work that the Drupal Association will be doing so we hired a firm developed a product marketing strategy for Drupal as if we were marketing the product and that will guide our tactical decision so we're bringing on a marketing person I personally where I sit right now I see this marketing is the as a top issue for Drupal's competitiveness in the world we have a lot of strengths the community is strong so we saw the numbers innovation first to AI all that so just where I sit I'm less worried about Drupal's competitors from the product feature side if you will and it's more the marketing side and you'll see out of this strategy the Drupal Association we don't sell services but we'll be marketing the product in conjunction with our partners well just gonna add one quick thing and like sometimes these questions there is sort of a tone I guess in them that suggests that maybe Drupal isn't competitive and there's definitely some data points where you know like maybe stack overflow surveys where the sentiment is a little bit lower but I will say like Drupal is very very competitive today you know so it's like I don't want it to be implied that we're no longer competitive I don't know if it was but like Drupal is winning in a lot of different markets for a lot of different reasons you know so just wanted to to bring that up that was similar to what I was gonna talk about so for anyone that went through the Drupal 7 to Drupal 8 migration period that was a really hard choice that Dries made at that time to secure the future of Drupal as a relevant stable product and a couple of years ago there was this talk of all Drupal's market shares slipping I reached out to Kim Pepper whose opinion I sometimes pay attention to and said go and look at the alternatives if we needed to pivot away from Drupal what are the alternatives and he came back and I definitely respect this opinion that bar none Drupal is by far the best product that we can sustain our business with if there's still a market for it and so what Dries talked about in his keynote today is that that rock solid foundation is there and now we have the ability to then innovate rapidly on top of it and the talk that Morgan gave just before this one he's got the most cutting edge AI image recognition platform running on top of Drupal 10 and that's exactly what we're talking about here is we've got the foundation there with a bit of a nudge in terms of marketing to compete with the likes of Adobe who have their own kill Drupal team that we need to compete against then we've got another decade or two ahead of us that's really exciting I think it's probably fair to point out the question is remain competitive so it's definitely it's it's asked with positivity in mind I think all right we've only got 10 minutes left if we can we've we've got more than 10 minutes an hour and a half we did it all right or got lunch next don't we no one's having we're bringing in lunch if you could change one thing about the Drupal Association what would it be assume assume that you can snap your fingers and it's done and there's no definitely a question for two a double microphone one okay so if I could change two things about the Drupal Association this is a negotiation tactic you always go one up so first is you know I came on board my understanding the Association was coming out of COVID with very stable financial position which was good and positive but the financial position of the Association is not sufficient to fulfill the goals and ideas that the board has and and what they want us to take on so if I could snap my fingers and do one thing magically it would be to improve the financial strength of the organization in terms of revenues coming in our ability to spend money back on the community initiatives so I want that's not a finger that will happen and we're on we're on track for doing that and that's that's something I will do if I one magical thing if I could do is I would raise the profile of the Drupal Association outside of the community that it begins to be seen as a as an association by outsiders representing Drupal the product and community so people outside the community can see us as a source of objective information and so forth so that you know is would be beneficial I think to the community if we could raise the profile of Drupal Association as a arbiter of good information outside the community great okay thank you we'll do one more of the prepared questions and then we'll go to the Slido questions so what is being done to increase Drupal's presence in markets outside of the US and Europe can we talk about the secret that's up to you I did not plant this question by the way but you could talk about the secret if you want to so I'll start and have one and others weigh in trees weigh in so I'm here so when I first got on board the first six months I spent talking to a lot of CEOs of our partners and the one thing I heard consistently was that the Drupal Association is seen as to us centric so it's very obvious to me that I needed to make sure that we were truly being a global association representing a global technology so there's a number of things we've done or are doing nothing's completed yet we hired I'm beginning to hire folks outside of the US we're fully distributed workforce and I have three employees are outside of the US I think that's helpful when we had the opportunity to do a major marketing strategy or I mean initiative the web summit that trees talked about we went to the event in Europe to to for our first marketing strategy and then lastly I think part of my trip over here was through Indian Singapore to meet with those with those communities in order to start to build the relationships and that's really what we need to focus on is and I have a staff dedicated to begin interacting with local associations to understand what they need and to begin to build the relationship between the DA and the folks on the ground in Drupal communities outside so I do think we're doing a number of things you'll start hopefully start seeing that I'll add to that I won't talk about the secret I want to keep the suspense okay but it's the classic Monty Python thing what did the Romans ever do for me and I think my perspective of the DA early on as being a small agency in Australia was well what what value do they bring to us in Australia and I think we were able to early on recognize that without Drupal thriving as a project we have no business so we've got an opportunity to play a role in ensuring that Drupal thrives and and succeeds and that is open to anyone and you'll get the classic question Tim probably gets it all the time what are you doing about this and my response to that is well what are you doing okay we're a duocracy here if you are concerned about something in terms of being a really core issue for you then put the time in to help address that issue and there's many avenues you use open for you to do that so that that's really important to just keep in mind is that while we're tucked away at the bottom of the world here we can still play a very active role and how these guys got some Aussie on the Drupal Association Board helping kind of realize what the future of Drupal is going to look like that's open to everyone yeah okay great there's a question from the room here how might we raise awareness and motivation for new developers to contribute to Drupal sure I mean I think one mean obviously collaborating with schools and universities would be one Eric wanted big thing to do and I've actually talked to quite a few of them and their big struggle is really I would say two fold one is good documentation and like so they can actually use to create curriculum and the second piece interestingly enough is it's too difficult to get started with Drupal and so one of the core committers actually is a part-time teacher and he believed or not teaches a react at a university and he would love to teach Drupal at the university but his name is Ben Ben Mullins and he's like it would take me too many classes just to get up and running with Drupal you know and so by the time the semester is over we wouldn't have been able to cover enough material and so a lot of the initiatives that we're working on like project browser and simplifying the onboarding experience and recipes they're all great things because I think if you're a school like you need to be able to get to teaching valuable things quickly like within the first couple hours of class you know like versus like you know not actually getting to that part and so so that's one thing that we're doing and the second thing I would say is like we have to go to where the up-and-coming developers the young professionals are you know like they're not gonna come to us necessarily but we have to go to where they are and Web Summit is a great example of that you know they're all going to these conferences or they're all reading certain websites like I don't know smashing magazine or whatever it is that they do and we need to make sure that we have a presence where they are so it's up to us it's up to all of us like in the spirit of what Owen just said like how might we go to where they are and I don't know where they are in Australia necessarily but I bet you they're in certain communities in certain places you know and yeah we have to get out of our bubble so to speak and go meet them and talk about Drupal because when we do and we set is a web summit they're really intrigued and interested because Drupal can be an incredible career choice for them they just don't know you know and they we just need to tell that story so there's a lot of other things we can do but these are two things that come to mind so what one thing that you'll see me post about in our local Slack channel occasionally is hey there's this great conference coming up that's not a Drupal conference that's a great place to tell Drupal stories at and definitely take advantage of that if you're in a position to do so again look for the opportunities where you can kind of step up and and play a role I think the other thing that I've seen kind of traveling around the world is that there is new energy around Drupal particularly in Europe there's a lot of younger developers coming to Drupal con in Europe in recent years and that just brings its own energy and it's the employers of those younger people who are bringing them to the conferences so again if you're an agency leader and you're looking at who's going to come to a conference bring you younger people okay it's not just about the leadership that should be at these conferences it should be from the most junior developer up I also think it's about like going back to our roots a little bit as well like I see a lot of young people maybe like getting started with like a contentful or something you know but like then I have to remind them like you know what that's like a proprietary SaaS vendor and here's the five things that are not great about proprietary SaaS software you know like as much as they fall in love with maybe the ease of use of these tools like I feel like we've forgotten some of these original open source values of why it's great to be in control of the software and to you know host it yourself so you can make changes to it and all of these things a lot of it is like basic blocking and tackling to explain what we do and I will say like we have a great story like we have a story that can convince many young people like you know these people get recruited also by the adobes and the optimizers of the worlds and I can tell you like most of them would rather be part of Drupal like you know it's to to get sucked into like a commercial proprietary ecosystem it's not appealing to everyone so I think we have a chance to convince them to join the Drupal project and I think telling the career stories telling the opportunities talking about the innovation and why it's a great bet to bet the next few years of your life on or the next 10 years of your life I think it's up to us to do and it's probably something that as we think about marketing it's we should be part of the marketing efforts that we have great I was just gonna add that piece that resonates with the younger generation working on something that's larger than yourself like consistently the surveys are coming back saying they don't want to just graduate and get into be a cog in the machine they want to work on something larger than themselves part of the reason why there's so much job hopping among Gen Z I think that's what Drupal offers and so that message is really important when you talk to young people okay do we have time for one more okay we have time good Tim this might be one for you the certified Drupal program supports a Drupal what are the ways the DA is supporting certified partners to succeed and I might add just really quickly that for those agencies and development houses that are in the room that aren't in the DCP what are some of the benefits for them to join sure thank you for that question we're so we have a Drupal certified partner program it started a couple years ago before I got here and we are making enhancements to it to make it focused on and supportive of companies that are contributing backcode so a couple things we're doing the change by the two biggest things which will also be a benefit first we are making the program about contribution of code or contributions of the community not about financial contribution it's about contributing code and creating in your company that culture of contribution that culture of community involvement that Owen talked about that will build your brand not only within the community but potentially outside the community second thing we're doing on Drupal.org we and this is part of our marketing efforts or tie into it we have a marketplace and the idea in the marketplace is those companies that are contributors can get if they're at certain levels they get a badge and then dependent on their contributions they will be ranked and that is a page that was designed to have folks who are interested maybe outside the community looking to go to that page and see who are the agencies right now we have 2200 companies on there of those 591 have contributed any code in the last year or so and of those we only have 84 partners so the goal of the enhanced DCP program is to get more to add to the 84 number a lot of companies here are DCPs how do we get those companies that aren't to to focus on the contribution requirements to become a DCP the benefits will be so we're going to make the marketplace which will probably name only open to Drupal certified partners after April 1st and the idea is to really highlight so that those 84 companies aren't lost in the 2200 that's one then most of our benefits that we are being consolidated under this program so we will do an RFP letter if you're applying for a government you know you're bidding Drupal we'll say yep here's a certified partner program this company's a certified partner discounts on Drupal cons for your staff discounts on sponsorships of Drupal con currently your rank we just announced this in January if you sponsor a local camp financially that sponsorship can translate into credit on the marketplace so you can move up the marketplace we have other initiatives like the beyond the build which is once a month we'll go to a certified partner and do a video case study of one of their projects that they like to highlight and then we'll promote that we'll also promote on social media so we're trying to consolidate the benefits under the Drupal certified partner program so it has a meaningful impact in your company's image within the community but also outside the community I'll add to that from a kind of agency owner perspective and as a matter of looking at how you can turn your company into a better open source company and what the business ramifications that creates for you so your staff become global experts in the software they're mentored by other global experts they're working at the cutting-edge of anything that's new that's happening in the in the platform and you're able to walk into any client in the country and to demonstrate that expertise and win projects off the back of that expertise tangentially your staff are more engaged they're working on things that are much bigger than themselves like Tim said and your ability to retain those staff longer term is massively bigger than what it would otherwise be so standard tenure at say a Google or an Apple is like 18 months many Drupal companies have ten years of seven to ten years and so the business benefits of getting involved at that level far out way the oh you're asking me me to pay $5,000 more a year to join this program what are you gonna do for me Tim so it needs to be just seen through that lens yep how are we using AI in Drupal besides content editing are there any plans to expand its usage what's a good question so I mean are there formal plans no but I think the next step for example would be so today AI is used show it's a lot for content creation capabilities like in many different shapes auto tagging translations generating of content these kinds of things but I do firmly believe that in the future AI will be used for more advanced tasks like as an example today when you want to create a page maybe in Drupal you have to create the page you have to maybe create a layout to sign the layout to the page then you have to create some blocks then you have to move the blocks into the layout maybe one of the blocks is a forum so guess what now you need to learn how to create forms in Drupal click that together and so by the time you've created like a simple landing page let's say you've done a hundred something clicks and oh by the way you have to learn a lot of different things there's a lot of mental concepts or mental models that you have to learn and it's actually not that easy as much as we try to make it easy with layout builder and tools like that and it's it's pretty obvious I think that in the future you're gonna be able to prompt those things where you just type create me a two-column page in the right column put a form with a name and email field and a submit button and by the way make the submit button blue so now you've avoided maybe somebody having to go mess around with the assassin twig which I mean that's a whole other world for people to learn right and then you hit enter or whatever and it will put it together and maybe it's not perfect but then you can iterate just like you might iterate today on content or you may just kind of click it to the finish line you know but then instead of a hundred two hundred clicks it's maybe ten I think that's where the world will go I don't think it will happen overnight because I mean as much as we like to talk about open AI integration and it is great it was frankly relatively easy and I don't want to diminish the work but a lot of organizations were able to integrate open AI in their applications and that and that's great but they provided great APIs that made it relatively easy especially relative to the picture that I just painted I think that is an order of magnitude more complex but also potentially way more disruptive and I think we need to find a way to experiment with those things and to play around with those things and I mean open AI was only released a year ago something to remember and it's only I think in recent months that open source LLMs have become powerful enough that we might be able to start experimenting with these with these ideas and so we don't have a formal plan but I think the development is happening so recently that was hard to make plans because you know the availability of open source tools that we can use to build this wasn't there but now the tools are starting to be there like some of the latest LLMs large language models are actually on par with GPT-4 in terms of power and I would invite everybody actually in the community or those that are interested in the topic to start maybe doing some experiments and see what can be done maybe don't start with this complex example that I gave but maybe there's simpler things that we can do that allow us to kind of grow into this I think that would be incredibly inspiring to young people and I think it could be potentially very innovative and I think now that we have open source LLMs we can also do it in a way that might make a lot more people feel comfortable with the sort of legal or ethical implications of using these tools so I think just actually in the last few weeks or months we've gotten to this point where we can start having meaningful conversations about what we might do. We've got we've got just under five minutes I want to go back to the prepared questions and do a lightning round max one sentence each how do you envision how do you envisage this community and project in 10 years time? You can do a little bit more than one sentence. In 10 years time in 10 years time the majority of companies and people in Drupal are under 40 years of age. Good answer. I'll build on that. I would love to get to a point where we have a lot of new leadership into the Drupal project where we can say something like I don't know half of the people that are in leadership roles whatever it is technical or DA or anything have joined in the last you know five years and are much younger and more diverse than the people up here on stage. That's fair. Was Pitchburg considered to be successful? Are there plans to do this again? Maybe annually. How do we ensure winning Pitchburg projects continue their momentum after funds run out? One sentence. One sentence. For a three or four question sentence. A run-on sentence. Yes Pitchburg was successful. At DrupalCon Portland in May we will be doing a wrap-up of all those projects and teaser alert they should they will be completed by then. The main goal of Pitchburg was to kind of bring attention to kind of an innovative way to try to get funding for projects that kind of came from the grassroots and see if that was a mechanism for innovation. I think it is the I'm not sure we'll do exact Pitchburg format but we are looking at a format that is less about an event and so forth and more kind of like a crowdfunding type of campaign possibly as a mechanism for doing Pitchburg like initiatives in the future. I'm going to go off topic but it's related and just highlight the fact that as Dries talked about we think at a minimum there's about three billion US dollars worth of project budget flowing through the Drupal ecosystem annually and if we could harness 1% of that that's a 30 million dollar annual budget to direct towards innovative projects and if you look at other mature open source communities like the Linux Foundation that's no brainer for them they spend a hundred and sixty million dollars every year on strategic projects in open source software and and that's the end goal that we're working towards. Pitchburg is like the little dip your toe in the water to see whether it's possible and we've proved that has been possible and now it's a case of how do we scale it up to a point where we're just firing on all cylinders. Okay that's what I'm excited about. All right good answer. All right last question what's something you wish the Drupal community would do but isn't? What's something you wish the Drupal community would do but isn't? Sorry I didn't think about this beforehand. Yeah I think again it's a bit of a tangential answer but we all bring our own idea of what Drupal is to Drupal and I think the interesting thing about having been involved in the board and kind of project strategy is that at a leadership level and a coordination level we're listening to all of those voices about what everyone thinks Drupal should be and trying to congeal that into a clear direction and I think we're in a really good place with that now from a technical perspective from a vision perspective and it does give us that kind of foundation for the community to to band around and that's what I'm really looking forward to see unfold in the future years but I think getting back to your original question is what I personally think of Drupal is kind of neither here nor there I've got a bit of a say but ultimately it's this kind of collective idea that we have together and we express that through our shared values and if you're coming into the community then you're adopting those values all saying that you agree with them that that's really key okay I'll add and it's not something that Drupal community is not doing that would be unfair but it's a theme that you've heard marketing outside you know getting involved in marketing Drupal outside the community so whether it's going to go into events joining DA sponsored activities but really seeing that for Drupal to survive to push to push markets to to you know basically combat against some of the organizations that are trying to push Drupal aside we need to be getting outside the outside the community and outside the developer community so we need to go to marketers we need to go to C-suite decision-makers understand what messages resonate with them and then be at the events that they're at with that message I will jump on to on top of that and just say tomorrow afternoon there's a panel with the Drupal South Steering Committee and after that at three o'clock there's a birds of a feather session with the with the committee as well where we'll be talking about one of the initiatives that we've got which is a Drupal booth at non-Drupal events here in Australia and in New Zealand and the the concept effectively is is to do that to reach out to our sponsors and help them get them to help us staff that boot so that we can be at things like tech in Gov and edu-tech and other non-Drupal conferences with an opportunity to present Drupal as a solution to those decision-makers that go to those events so if you're interested in that and taking part in that please come along to those two sessions tomorrow afternoon we are out of time I've got the official you're done please join me in thanking all of our panelists for coming up here today and sharing their thoughts