 Without further ado, I'd like to introduce Mr. Jim Flannis. Thank you, Dr. Flannis. Okay, let's start at the beginning. Your biography, The Boy from Peoria, is a fascinating read. You must be honored to be the subject of a book. How did this come about? Well, I think I've been talking about it for seven or eight years, and I know I could ever write it. And finally, two great people, Tracy and Owen, came to me after they did Chuck Redstone's book and asked me if I would consider joining a book with them. What were your initial thoughts on that? I was excited. I didn't know how much I wanted to put out there, but I thought if I'm going to put it out, it's going to be exactly what it is. It's true. I've never been ashamed of anything I've done, so I'm kind of happy it's out there. My family's accepted it quite well, so... I attended your book site on December 7th, and many people came out for your autograph, and it was in the middle of a blackout as we were there. There was a power failure, and they had to set up candles. It was very gothic in its feel. How did you feel having so many people there for your autograph and all that interest? I was overwhelmed, I think. To see that many people that came out, first of all, and I think the thing that shocked me the most is when the lights went out, they all stayed. They didn't leave. And they just sat around and talked with the candles, and then Tracy just got a flashlight, and so we sat there and signed books with a flashlight while everybody enjoyed the candles. I was, and a lot of the people I had seen in a long, long time, and there were some people that shocked me that they were there. One of my doctors, some years ago, he had separated from his wife, and she came out and introduced herself, and said, I'm so-and-so's wife, which is through me for a little bit. I don't know how she even knew about the book site, but there were some exciting people there that I was happy to see over the years. Going down memory lane a little bit, what sorts of things did you have to remember for the book, or did you have to do any research of your own to remember things you had done? I had to remember a lot about my family, about my military days, what bars I worked at, people that I knew, entertainers that I knew, people that came to the baton, entertainers that have worked for me. That was a lot that I did. Tracy did a lot of the research when it came to the mafia childs and the police childs, and then a lot of the people around the country that I gave names to, that the interviewed, and of course after the interviewed, they both came back with great questions after that, so there was a lot to go back in. There was a few crying moments to go back to your life and start remembering things. How long did it all take? About four months. Four or five months I think was right, yeah. Please tell us a little bit about growing up in Peoria. You came out at a very young age. I came out, truthfully I came out at around eight years old, is when I first had my encounter with a guy, I didn't know what it was all about, but I guess today they would say that I probably was approached and sexually molested as a child, not knowing what it was, but as it kept happening I sort of enjoyed it, and I always knew that I didn't enjoy toys and I didn't enjoy hanging around with young kids, and when I finally told my mother, or my 14th birthday I think it was, that I was gay, she always looked at me and said, she knew there was something always different, because I was always hanging around with the older guys at the church and watching the basketball games, and of course I turned out the towels at the shower, which was different. And those kind of things, but I had to tell my mother, because I had got caught coming out of the hotel if you weren't cat about four in the morning by the house detective. And of course my mother was the head chef there, and I had every house detective do me, and he said, this is some member of your family work here. I said, yes, my mother, and this is a friend of our family that was just out of the house, and as I walked him back up here, I was, you know, and he said, I hope so, because that's the first thing I'm going to ask your mother tomorrow when she comes to work. So I waited up all the night until my mother got up the next day, and she said, I can understand just only your father now. Because my dad would have never accepted that. Was there a time when you actually did share that with your father? I never did. I moved out of home a few months later, right up to my 14th birthday, led by myself. Of course by then I had a job at stake in Sheik. And then when I turned 17, I went to the Navy, and I was at the Navy. I was probably in six months when my dad had his accent, and they rushed me home. But I didn't get home, and time for his death, so he never knew. Well, you hear biography. You state that the eight kids of Peoria raised you. How so? Well, I think I was so young that one night I was walking down Main Street, and in Peoria, Main Street on Monday night was when all the stores were open. So everybody was downtown, and this carload of guys came by, and they were coming back. A queer, sissy girl. I was petrified. And I didn't know whether I wanted to jump in that car with them, or if somebody from my school would see me. So I did jump in the car, and that's when I found out there were other gay guys. Just like myself. And after that, they just sort of took me under the wing, and that was like my other family. So these were gay people calling you gays? Yeah. Wow. They were okay. And I'll pop it down. I was except for one of them. Who were the Peoria girls? Oh, the Peoria girls, that was part of them. We used to meet on the courthouse square every Friday starting night on vacation, because we really didn't have any bar at that time to go to. And we had to, if we're going to go to the bar, we had to go late, because the only bars that really were left us in were some of the black bars. Harold's Club, or Richard Pryor at the start, and the Blue Flamingo, they were very, very good to gay people. I mean, they sort of understood what we're going to. So we would meet and get together on the courthouse square, and we would talk and carry on. And of course we all started singing and thinking we were chorus girls. We are the Peoria girls. We were our girls. Sort of do a little kickline there. They have a great time. Who did the US Army Navy rather? Tell us about your Navy experience. My Navy experience was great. I went to Great Lakes. Luckily the company commander liked me, so I made with the company clerk, so I had all the easy part of getting through boot camp. I didn't have to do all that ridgid stuff. And finally, when I got out of boot camp, my push assignment was Little Creek, Virginia, and the amphibious forces. And I was lucky because I went into the operations division, and after about four months, the petty officer that was in charge left, and they couldn't get anybody else in. So they automatically just moved me up to Yeoman 3rd class without taking a test or anything and put me in charge of the office. But it was quite an experience in Little Creek because I didn't understand all this stuff about gays not being in the Navy because every office on that base was controlled by a gang. From the CO to the EXO to everybody. And of course this one lesbian, we all thought was a lesbian. She was the lieutenant commander in charge of dispersing. But we all admired her. She was so beautiful. But we just sort of all got along with her. So we all thought she was a lesbian, but we really didn't know. But none of us did what we did. I mean for God's sake. Of course we always had early job passes and we were in charge of the base. And so the Marines would hold the door on and say, here comes the girls. And we would just walk here. There was just nothing ever about that that went on that made you want to hide it. So finally I ended up working off the base. I worked at North General Hospital. First I worked at DePaul. I did charity work at DePaul in the emergency room just to fulfill time and don't click. And then I finally went to work at North General Hospital in the psychiatric ward. But eventually that night gave me the money I needed to move off base. And so I'd leave the base every day at 2.30 and go to work maybe at 3.30, 4 nights a week. And then we had a very severe woman one night and she kicked me. Because I worked at the psychiatric ward. And I thought that it was from the kid. So the head nurse, excuse me, I went down to the emergency room and they said, you've got to get to the Naval Hospital right away. And I said, what happened? They said, you're a clinics person at home. So of course the Navy Hospital always keeps you much longer because they can't get people there. So they won't get to work forever. So I called my captain up and I said, I think you can be back, I can't take you. So I got back to the base and I went the next night to the bar to see all my friends. They had the bar called Continental on Tassel Street in Norfolk. I walked in and of course the owner, Jack, got on the stage and started screaming my name and everything. And I checked around and there were six guys from my division. And we had a very closed division because we were right in the operation of each and all by ourselves. So there were only 19 of us that stayed on the base and that was in the locker room down there. We had our own awake in the main base. So six out of the 19 knew me. After a while I think I went with 11 of them. So the Navy never was a hindrance to me. I don't know what the problem was. And then my son, I got honorably discharged and I was out for a while and then I went back in and I got sent to trade Hawaii because I wanted to go back there because that's where I was discharged. And I went to a very, very big gay party and somebody turned 42 of us in and they flew us all back to Treasure Island and kept us for week after week. We could finally sign a general discharge and get out or we could just go on. And I said, well, this is going to hurt me. I only have an awful discharge. So I said I might as well sign it after a few weeks. And it was very strange there to be good. The Marines would always make an elected king and queen every week in the gay section because there were so many gays. And I remember I've had an entertainer that was very popular on the East Coast named Sachi and he was there and he turned down to be a female and pristine or two. But the more I looked at San Francisco, I said, I'm just going to sign the paper and get out. And I did that. He came back to Black King in Illinois and worked at St. Teresa's. At that time, what were your thoughts on don't ask, don't tell, that it's ultimate repeal? I thought it was the most ridiculous thing to ever put in because it just seemed like anybody that was out never had a problem. The ones that really closed it or stayed in the closet were the ones that really had the problem. I mean, I just, I couldn't see it because I mean, everybody that I knew, we went on a picnic or whatever that the straits always wanted to be with us. So I mean, and they were all of our, just like the guys that on TV did. When you're together in a unit, you've got to worry about the guy behind your back. You're not worried about the gay, the black, the white, they're straight. So I thought it was, I thought it was repeal. It should have never been there in the beginning. But they should have been discharging all those people. Changing gears a little bit, what drew you to female impersonation? I think I was nine years old when my mother would go to work and he would sit in the house. I would pull the bedspread off and wrap it around me like it was eating down. And I always wanted to be an entertainer but I just didn't know how I was going to do that. And then after a while, we started dressing up in drag and peoria, comic drag. You know, after a while, I remember one of my sisters saying, Mom, she said, you know, we only knew two holidays, we were so bored because Jim used to come home with all presents. And Halloween, he'd always come home dressed like a woman. So that's how I got in. After I left the hospital and saved trees, I really thought I wanted to go more and stay with the church and maybe be a brother. But after a while, I knew I couldn't do that. And I worked the intensive care, you know, for so long I'd seen so much death. And I think I was with Nectico's father, the 99th in St. Tree's Hospital. And the next day, I said, that's it, I'm going to Chicago. So I came to Chicago and fell in love that night. They were opening a bar here, cut the enix. Somebody said they're looking for help. So I said, well, let me go down and apply. The guy said, are you a great bartender? I said, yeah, I don't know how to do bar. I know how to do both drinks. So I gave him a chance. And so he said, when can you start? And I said, maybe a week or two weeks later, I can be back in for more training. So I got to work at the enix. Of course, I'd say around five days, I think. And somebody asked for a screwdriver. So I went out to the bar and got the screwdriver. Skip Arnold was the entertainer at that time. And, of course, Skip heard it with the John Kendrick trio at that time. And, of course, Skip, the biggest thing I've done, Skip Alexander came running back. I thought it was going to get fired, but I talked with some of them. And then they moved me down to the Chesterville that we had to do Turnabout nights, where the bartenders would do the drag. And I did, you know, I kind of like, I did my best at it. I was never a Mimi Marks or Wyatt Douglas. But I had fun with it. I was more of a comedian than anything else. And it was late for me to be, just like when I was a bartender, that was my stage. And it was a form of entertaining. Fells about Felicia. That was her. She got her start back in Peoria, in 13, as Spanish guys. Obviously made him happy. So he gave me that name, but I sort of dropped it for a long, long time. And the owner of the Convento Bar in Norfolk, he could never say Felicia, so he'd obviously say Flossy. But when I finally got back to Felicia, it was at the Old Sands that when I would throw out my baton and go down the bar, and I'd made money throw out my baton, and then when we opened the first baton, you couldn't use your name because people hated it. You used your own name. So we decided on the baton. That's how it came about. And Felicia started skating back and forth across Park Street to get business down there, making people aware that we were there. And I would stop the traffic, so I started two or three blocks while I'm twirling in the middle of the street. But that's how it all started up. So is that where you got the name for the twirling tradition? Well, I was a drum major in high school, and a treeland junior high and peyote manual and in the Navy. And I used to hate it when we would march in peyote. Because everybody was like, oh, look, there's a boy twirling. A boy in slacks. I never got to wear the little dresses like that. So it was different. That's where that came from. I wasn't good at it for a long time. I think I went to 140-some contest before I ever placed third place. I was so excited when I got to third place. Well, I read that you attended the first Chicago 8 Pride march. Please tell us a bit about that. Well, that was different way back then, because they argued about they didn't want any leather and they didn't want any drag. It was just a small group of people. And I didn't know how I fit in because I was in leather and I was in drag. So we argued about it for a little while, but then eventually they all just let it go, and I just came out drag and participated. There was a few cars, a few marches, nothing big. Was it a big turnout? Not like it is now, but, you know, like any place that starts as small and gradually goes. So let's go back a step and revisit how the baton began. You mentioned bringing people in by twirling in the street and blocking the traffic, but what was the impetus for opening up that establishment? Well, the impetus, I worked at Sam's and I asked the owners for a pay raise because we only would give $65, and we were working like 58 hours. And, of course, they didn't trust anybody at the time. They had a straight guy behind each cash register, although they were very, very good to be... I mean, she started crying out with one of them, so... That made it feel a lot easier, but then when I asked for everybody to get it to raise, the one brother-in-law got mad, and so I started looking for a place, and I see this place in the park, and I went to the landlord and talked to him. I talked to Chuck Winslow, who advised me in many ways of what to do. He's probably the one we all have to go back to and think or none of us would bring probably where we are today. In Chicago, but I haven't been to Chuck. And, of course, it was Al Freedman's father, Julius Freedman, who gave us the first spot. And my former boss has tried to get him to take it away and not let me have the lease. It was a hard time, you know, and we got it going, and then we had to deal with the police. We had to deal with the mob just about everything you could deal with. We had to deal with to get it going, and nobody would come down there because it was a very dangerous area at that time. I mean, it was Skid Row. Indian bars, vinyl bars, Queen's Paradise where everybody got drunk, and the old strippers who get on the strip on Friday night for a bottle of wine, March, probably, remembers that. But those times were hard, and it was dramatic. But I thought the only week I asked Lady Baronessa and Jody Lee and Samantha George, I said, why don't we throw a show together? So we got out of about 16 beer cases and put a little curtain around the bottom, and got a little spotlight and did a show on a Friday night. So people came. So the next week we did it again and a few more people came, and then eventually we did Saturday night, and then we made a big, huge-type stage that was different, but it was a stage, and then that's how the baton kept going. Tell me about the 1973 shooting. 1973 shooting was a woman that had... Actually, we all thought it was a woman that came in the back, and a lot of the lesbians who played ball for me were there because it was a movie night after the game at Lakeshore Park, and this lady came in, and later we found out she had so much bullets and everything on her, but she went out shooting and she shot the bartender in the back. Luckily, John, he missed everything that went on with them, and they chased her over to 505, north of the South, and she kept shooting at the police. Still at that time, no one knew it was a woman, and they eventually killed her, and then we found out that was the anniversary night that her husband had left her, and I guess he had came to the baton when he met somebody. That's what the story they told us. You've been arrested numerous times. How many, for what reasons? I think all together was about 15 or 16 times that you either were keeper of a disorderly house or you were an inmate or you were soliciting for prostitution or you were the prostitute. Every one of the charges were dismissed in SOL. The only one that held up for a long time was the one for the Chesterfield, and that's when they tried to tenant on me the owners of the bar, and somebody said, you're going to get a good lawyer because they're going to pin this on you, and they used it to open the bar back up, and so that's when I reached out to Ronald Kleepack, and it took us about 12 more judges and 25 or four times in court, but we finally got out of it. She even called the one judge, Judge White that time, told him he was prejudiced and he was corrupt and everything, and that was after he had found out that I had been coming to court all this time without a bond, and that's when he slapped into the bond before he turned my bond money back to me. So it hadn't been for her, I thought it would have been gone a long time before, but all the time they would take us, it was always if they raided a bar, if they would hit Clark Division early, then they would clock, I mean, Clark Division, then they would do Clark to diversity later, and if they'd seen they'd let you out of one place to be sure to grab you at another place. And number one, I did the Chesterfield, they came in, and Robbie Landers had come down to get a pack of cigarettes, and she was in red pajamas because we all had apartments upstairs, and they were in there, and they said, grab him, he was here last night, and they yanked him in, and of course they had, I think 37 of us went that night, just 11 didn't stay, and they always let you out at noon the next day just so they can embarrass you if you were in drag or whatever, and they let you out of people around, and then you always learn to get $25 or $50 in your pocket or bell money in if you smoke, you always send a pack of cigarettes. A method to your madness. A method to your madness. Well, I believe we have among us a couple of the baton performers, would you like to briefly introduce them, Nathan? Acting as our hostess, if you would, come on down for a second. Thank you very much. They're both entertainers of the baton, they've both been with me a long time, and both former Miss Continentals. Please introduce. This is BG Marks, and Mimi just came back from Thailand where she entertains for a month over there every year after winning the big pageant in Thailand. Well, coming back to the cold must be awful. But I have to go out tonight and they considered to do this, so... That was absolutely wonderful. Thank you. In the course of your journey, you've appeared on Donny. Tell us about that. Donny, at my viewpoint, was probably the best interviewer and the best person to ever go on his show. He was very considerate to us, he was always kind to us, he was always kind to us, he was always kind to us. He really got into you, not just that you're a female impersonator, but he wanted to know all about you. And he was just great all the way around. I remember one time we were in the green room when he was here at NBC in Chicago, and he said, you know, I'm going to come in the green room in a minute and bring somebody in, and don't get shot. But just let them be mad at all. And I said, okay. And he wanted to... And I thought Jerry Barwell was going to fall over. He looked at us and took a look at us, and all of a sudden he out the door, he went, you know, he wouldn't stay in the green room, but at least he got to see us and read us. But Donny, you really was great. You really got into the personal stories of everybody and talked more about you and your family, what made you what you are, but he didn't just want to know, are you a man or are you a woman, that type of thing like Marry Boba used to do, put him on the audience guest, he wanted to get more into what it was. And he was just great. So was your appearance on Donny more about female impersonationism or was there any kind of controversy that he had speaking with religious people or something? No, there was never any controversy. There were not people in the audience that were religious or whatever, but he talked about female impersonationism and talked about our personal lives, and of course the baton got one of the biggest boosts for Phil because Irv Cupps to call me up one night and said that he was going to bring Phil and Marlowe in. And he did bring them in, and after that Phil asked us to go on his show, and I think we went on his show six times if I remember. For him, people were talking, picked us up, and we had, I think, five or six, seven cities on people talking. Right after that, that's when I met Oprah when people were talking and 82 when she was involved in Baltimore. Well, please tell us a little bit about the trials regarding the payoffs. The pleas for the other ones. Both. The pleas for the trials, I didn't have too much really to do with that because I went to down there, and of course I wouldn't testify, and the attorney was getting very, very upset of me, Dan Webb, who was the attorney at that time because I wouldn't talk, and then they said they were going to lock me up and they did lock me up for about 24 hours, I think it was. And then they brought me back in front of an older black judge, named Judge Alston, and he said, are you ready to talk, young man? And I used to say, well, Judge, I really have a problem. And he said, what's your problem? And I said, I don't know any of these officers at Jim Flet. They don't know me as Jim Flet. I don't know them as Jim Flet. And Ed Bogov still want to tell me to do this, so he just said, tell the judge that you own a bar for female impersonators. And I said, sir, I live as a woman. I cut my hair out of respect for you and I came down here today to testify. So I don't know any of these people as Jim Flet. The judge got so rattled, he started giving recess, recess, recess. We went in his back room and we went through the whole thing again. I think I contributed to his heart attack. I'm not sure. But afterwards, he looked at me and he said, young man, I don't think we need your testimony. So he let me go. The cocktails were a little bit different because I had never paid off the mom. They kept coming to the door asking me to do so. And of course, I would refuse to do so. And I said, I went through all this in 1971. I really wasn't going to get myself involved in all this stuff again. Doug Roller was the attorney general by this time. I remember they came one night on a Sunday night. Of course, I was gone. And there was a lady that worked at the Oak Tree. And she was the night hostess. And she called Richie. Richie was my doorman. Older doorman. She said to me, Richie, where's Felicia? And he said, I don't know. Why? She said, well, get a hold of him and tell him not to go home tonight. And to call me right away. So I did call her right away. And she said, I think you better do something drastic tonight. So what's going on? She said, well, they just put a head on you. Wow. So I stayed up all night. I mean, I was trembling. I didn't know what to do. And the next day, there was a drugstore on Oak Street, on Rush Street, right underneath the rush up, was where the head man was sitting. His name was Joe. So I went over and I called him out to his car. I said, I don't want to talk to you in there because I don't know what's bug and what isn't. But after one hour, I'm going through it. So we got in the car. And I said, you know, I perjured myself in 1971 for you guys. I lied. I lied. I can't do that again. But I want to tell you, I have not told anybody anything. And he said, well, I'll get it all solved and bring it back in when you tell all the bar owners over there to be careful because somebody's going to get hurt if they keep talking. And so I called four or five of them together. And I said, I don't know if any of you guys are talking to the feds or what or not, but somebody's going to get hurt. And so, and then I found out at that time that they had put Bob Hugo under the witness protection plan for the glory at home. And so, she was taped going in because they played some of the tapes for me. And then they played some tapes for people calling my house and saying, this is Joe and so forth and so forth. And I said, I can tell who it was. I don't know the band's voice on the phone. It could be you doing that. I said, I don't know what you're talking about. I've not paid off. I'm not going to pay out and so forth. So they went and took the dancers and said, you're not going to do to me what you did the last time you was here. And I said, what did I do? And he said, you know, Dan, what would you do? And I said, then I was young and stupid. Now I'm proud and gay. So he kept me there and I was there five days and we were in front of Smartichill and I was in the jury in that booth where they keep you and all of a sudden the defense force came up. Well, I know him very well. I mean, Pat Gillett, his wife worked on campaigns together but Doug Reiler kept running in there and he said, you're not supposed to talk to him. He's the defense attorney. I said, how did I know that? I thought he was in here to testify too. I said, I'm here as your guest. And so I finally got where to the judge. That was my fifth day down there and I let the judge go. I went through the playoffs and luckily we did win that plan but he would keep me informed on the score and he told me that he told the federal attorney they had to use me that day or they had to let me go. So they bobbed me out in front of all these people and you could tell he was trying to let them know I was gay but he wouldn't say anything to it. So I said, you know, if you want to, you can tell all these people I'm gay and I own a female first stage choir to come to see the show. So from then on he went through all of these questions. I thought it was only five or six questions but after reading the Tracy it was tons of questions. When I made it through it and I was released that day and a very good friend of mine who is a bookie was at Cup Park that day and I got up there and he walked by and he would say hello to me. He said, you can't speak into me. So later I went up to the stating cup and he was up there and I said, what the hell happened? You didn't say hello or nothing. He said, what happened in court? I said, I got out of there. I didn't have to do anything. I got out pretty clean. I said, well, there were two hitmen sitting right behind me. So that was enough to say I never want to be involved in that again. So I'd have it and then I won't be. Well, I have a question. I knew I could not overlook. How did they begin? Before I knew that I wasn't letting my notebook if you ever have to go through any of that it was the most terrifying thing you could ever go through. The continental pageant system started because there were other pageants for female first-aiders that were very discriminatory. You couldn't have any body improvements. You could not live as a woman. You couldn't have any silicone any hormones any anything. You couldn't have facial improvements or anything. So after a couple of years I thought, well, I'm going to enter this just to see if what they said is all true. Because I had a couple of people with me that were entering the Badger 2. And I did enter one one year and she won it and the next year I entered another one. So this year I was going down with Leslie Grachanet and I entered the other one and they told us we had to be there at nine o'clock in the morning and we got there at nine o'clock and we had to fly overnight because we worked till three and talking to this one little entertainer she took three buses to give their to be on time so we got there there were about 80 people missing. So they said, well, we're going to give them until one o'clock this week I'm here today and I thought, well, that sounds kind of funny. You had to be here at nine but now it's that time since we come here and there were still a lot of them not there and so the owner of the Badger said well, we're going to give them until seven o'clock tonight for registration and I put my hand up do you have a problem? I said yes, I do have a problem. I said all of us had to come here a lot of us worked all night this person took three buses the rule was you had to be here at nine o'clock and then it was one o'clock and I think we should just fold all those people out of the Badger well, it was a little bit hesitant but they eventually did and the last time to go out that day it was not chocolate and she won the Badger that year but after the Badger started I was standing up in front of the door with John Austin who was the manager this week Dina Jacobs and a couple other and there was one of the judges there and she was just ridiculing this little person in Indiana terribly I mean just she didn't know what this is she didn't know what that is the category meant sportswear and so I looked at her I said you don't miss your judge and I don't think you were right stand out here and ridiculing the contestant first of all I didn't know what sportswear was either sportswear I thought was sporty I didn't know it was furs a hot and a suit like you going to the races I thought it was something to do with sports I think you're wrong well first of all you should open your mouth or I could disqualify you I said no you don't have to disqualify me because first of all you shouldn't even be a judge because you were so drunk a week ago at Knoxville you set your fur on fire and you're drinking now so I said you're not going to disqualify me because I said it don't mean nothing to me I disqualify myself and so the person that on the pageant started to stand up and I said don't say anything because I've been waiting to punch you for three days so I left I went back to my hotel and the lady bareness had come back and she said Jimmy you've got to apologize so I said apologize well you're the top 12 you've got to apologize so we went to get our stuff and she said you can't take your stuff out of here so the pageant's over and I said you and who else is going to stop me and stop Leslie from taking our stuff out of here because the one judge told Leslie you know we paid for hometown girls before we do out of town girls so Leslie was ready to go too so we left and I had a couple of friends there Pharrell I've got a Kevin and Ike's down now Pharrell is the last evening and I had three brutes and for about two years I kept saying why don't you start a pageant for everybody because that way you know nobody can be discriminated if they have body parts or they have themselves or they have silicone so a couple of years ago I finally said okay I'll do that I'll start it so we put it all together we went to Park West and I think I don't need a buyer because he didn't charge me on rent because we certainly didn't fill the place up and we had 13 contestants and Chilly won and I think Dita Jacobs was first runner up and then Drayna Cole was second runner up and from then it just sort of more people started talking about it and the next year we had a few more people in the next quarter and now we're not the largest pageant but I think as most people say we're the elite pageant we're the one that they really want to win and Autumn will go to other pageants when that first people are coming they'll come and realize they're not up to potential so they will go to another one and then come back a couple years later and some have been in a seven or eight or nine years before they find anyone but they don't give up and now we have Miss Continental Elite which entertainers who are 40 and Miss Continental Plus ladies over 225 we probably have something like 60 pages wow so we stay on the road quite a bit Easter is at the Park West Sunday and Monday is the preliminary for Elite and Plus and then the Plus finals it's on Monday the Elite is on Tuesday and then the Men on Saturday Friday and Saturday and then the people on First Air on Sunday and Monday and it sells out pretty rapidly I read in the book that stars have visited the baton I remember seeing Madonna, Sammy Davis Jr. Joan Crawford as well Joan Crawford used to come in in the 70s and Richie, my doorman went back during the war and Joan could never get people to wait tables for or clean their house during the war there was nobody around and at that time Richie was a top Hollywood model you'd never know that years later but he knew and he knew everybody and he would get a lot of gay kids to go up and do Joan's parties so that whenever Joan would come to town and I or she would have dinner and she loved to go to the Drake and the Cactura so that's usually where we ended up with Joan Crawford and then later when the book was written I said Richie how much of that book is actually true he said 95% of that book is true because he said the studio that everybody could buy when they made a move actress she could do anything she wanted so which stars made the biggest impression which she did Lauren Buchal because of her mystique Rock Hudson because he was so down to earth with one of us I think Madonna was when she came in she was so down to earth and didn't try to be anything she wasn't I wasn't so happy with some of the people with her but I think if we had to go back and talk about not only stars and movie stars and whatever I think we had to bring up Janet Jackson because I think she has been the greatest art club Janet comes in she doesn't just run in or run out she's been known to be there three or four hours with us and even the last time she was here she invited everybody to the Chicago Theater and bought all the girls and staged with her to do a number how wonderful and that's just the way she was just a great, great person so I think those are the ones for different reasons that made such a impact What's been your greatest challenge? My biggest challenge I think my biggest challenge is to be back down to 190 I've been on every diet in the world but I think that's been my biggest challenge I didn't have a challenge with my family because they all are just so early in the age I've always been blessed to have a lot of good friends the Navy was ever a challenge my business was always a challenge am I doing the right thing and how do I keep it going and how do I keep people with me and so forth is that and lately I think one of my biggest challenges lately is like I said to Marge earlier a way to get more of us out on a Sunday or something to see everybody talking and having a good time because I go to a wake and I see everybody I haven't seen in 25 years and I'm just tired of seeing them What's the biggest misconception about you? I'm pushy I'm outgoing all the time people are afraid to talk to me they think I can't be talked to those are about the most of the people even in Connellill they say well I can't talk to you I'll be in a pageant some little town and some little person will come running up and they'll ask whoever I'm with they say do you think he'll sign an autograph with me? they're afraid to approach me on their own but you know it's kind of nice I see what a lot of big stars go through because to some of those young gay lesbians that don't get to go into big cities and we come to their cities they read about it, they hear about us we're kind of role models to them they aren't afraid to approach you In conclusion I'd like to take a second to acknowledge Tracy and Owen Keyin who are here in the audience you brought a couple copies that are here we have about nine copies if anybody wants to buy one and Tracy bought color ones with her if anybody needs them and I'm sure they wouldn't mind an autograph I don't have a lot with me I've shipped somebody to Florida for the big signing down there February 19th Well at this point I would like to thank you very much for being part of this chat I hope you enjoyed it I hope you all did