 Thank you Fred that's that was great I'm gonna what I decided to read tonight, but before I do that I like to dedicate this reading to all the students I've had in the MFA over the last six years So I don't want to thank you and this is for you Just a brief set up. I decided to read Not the new novel I was writing about Germany in 1936, but from now I finished a while ago called resting places It won the 2014 testing prize and it'll be published sometime next year this year It's about a millage woman named Elizabeth who lost her 21 year old son Luke in a car accident During a cross-country car trip another road trip He died in Mexico though. He had told his mother and father that he was heading out to San Francisco I need to set up a little because I'm reading from the middle of the novel chapter 11 Elizabeth has had lots of questions about the facts surrounding her son's death including Inconsistencies in the police report as well as the fact that Luke called her on the night of the accident and said he needed to talk to her About something presumably important. She didn't take the call Because she was with her lover that night, which as you can imagine this compounds the situation adds great deals In addition to her confusion a great deal guilt to the situation She has spent the past year since her son's death Drinking too much pulling away from her husband Zach and obsessing about the accident She has tried to piece together where he went on his trip using credit card receipts and reviewing his phone records and Calling people he contacted and might have talked to in his last few days Based on a chance encounter with a stranger. She met along the highway, and that's the chapter I read a couple of years ago Elizabeth has decided to draw drive country cross country Following the route her son took out to Mexico hoping to understand more about her son's death She's also stopping at various this this cansoes Which is the Spanish word for resting places and those are those roadside memorials that you see everywhere The last few years of her life. She and Luke had not been I had been at odds He had been distant and moody and sullen and as chapter 11 opens She has been on this road trip for a couple of days, and she had left in the middle of the night She she leaves from Connecticut right around this area in fact The previous night to this chapter from the motel room where she stayed Elizabeth had a troubling conversation with her husband Zach about Luke's death Bringing up a new and troubling possibility That has recently occurred to her based on her trip What if the accident wasn't an accident? What if he had meant to end his life? Zach told her such an idea was crazy Why couldn't she just accept that their son's death was simply something that happened without a sinister purpose or darker meaning in Passing he casually mentioned to Elizabeth that their son had seen his ex-girlfriend girlfriend TJ that summer and he had mentioned it to the father and Zach mentions it to his wife As the chapter opens. She is leaving the motel room and getting ready to continue her journey Chapter 11 resting places The storm having spent its fury the morning stretched out with a haggard and introspective demeanor like one waking after the debauched night of revelry Leaves and branches littered the road Debris was thrown over the parking lot and up near the motel office a garbage can lay overturned a tree of brazen crows gorging themselves on its contents as Elizabeth opened her car door. They took off squawking vociferously Stuck to the windshield was a newspaper flyer. She had to peel off like a like the skin of an onion She picked up the highway and continued west her conversation with Zach the previous night returned to her You're grasping at straws. He said perhaps she was perhaps all of this was just a matter of grasping at straws She thought too of what he told her about Luke seeing TJ that summer had her son started dating her again There was that one brief phone call Luke Luke had made to TJ when he was on the trip It was odd that these seemingly inconsequential and desperate facts Surrounding her son appeared to have such significance now such import and nuance They were like the dots. She felt she needed to connect in order to understand the picture surrounding his death Elizabeth warned herself not to do what she was contemplating But lately she hadn't heeded her own warnings lately warnings seemed seemed made for others She felt reckless and irresponsible for only law being whatever would illuminate Luke's end She took her out her cell phone and looked up TJ's number After several rings the young woman's familiar voice came on. Hi. This is this is Tess I'm not here right now, but leave a message and I'll call you back. Ciao Elizabeth was surprised to hear her user first name instead of her initials In fact, she wasn't even sure what the J stood for she had always just been TJ The voice brought back a painful flood of memories of the girl who used to sit in the den with Luke Eating pizza watching TV or studying for a test with her son Her girlish laughter fluttering in the air filling the house with joy She missed TJ missed even more how her son used to act when he was around her happy carefree Vibrant with life Elizabeth hadn't seen the girl in nearly two years She'd run into TJ's mother at the dry cleaners in town a few months before it was an awkward meeting They both smiled too much and Mrs. Pearson acted as if Elizabeth was 80 and hard of hearing She spoke too loudly and rest her hand patronizingly on Elizabeth's wrist When Elizabeth asked how TJ was doing the woman said her daughter had gotten a job up in Boston at the Fine Arts Museum Now when it came time to leave a message Elizabeth thought no, this is all wrong. Why disturb the poor kid needlessly bringing up such past sorrow Elizabeth hung up without saying anything That day she drove the length of Tennessee a seemingly endless parallelogram of rolling hills Cattle and horse farms shimmering lakes dotted with homes and massive tourist tourist signs Advertising the likes of Forbidden Caverns Opryland Graceland Gatlinburg the Johnny Cash Museum the Jack Daniels Distillery and Baptist Church after Baptist Church One sign in particular caught her attention set off the highway along the a sloping pasture populated by black Angus cattle It proclaimed simply Inexplicably when you die you will see God Beneath the words appeared what seemed to be a spiky red EKG line Jumping up and down with life until finally flat lighting under God's name presumably indicate indicating death Like the life insurance sign she'd seen the first night on the road This one too seemed a hard-sell technique of the most overbearing kind though She wasn't sure what was being marketed other than simple fear She passed signs for small towns with hoaking sounding names like Crab Orchard Helen's Gap Carthage Junction Horse Corners Bear Hollow She listened to the lulling twang of more country stations while drinking Red Bull to stay awake and munching on trail Mix around to she stopped and filled up the gas and bought a dry as Carbward Sandwich at a convenience store to blunt the bell call of hunger The storm had ushered in its way cooler dryer weather She could smell the change in the air a clean sharp odor like ammonia Sometime later she found herself passing through a broad valley framed by low humpback hills in The distance and immediately on either side of the interstate green pastures plowed over fields and occasional stand of pine woods Twilight was coming on fast some cars in the opposite lane already had their headlights on and she was reminded to turn hers on as well She thought again of what Zach had told her how Luke had seen TJ that summer Maybe the girl had some inkling of where her son's mind was what he was thinking before he died Elizabeth decided not to heed her earlier warning if there was a slightest chance TJ could shed some light on her son She would take it. She didn't want to leave any stone unturned So she called again and got the recording this time though. She left a message. Hi TJ She said she didn't use tasks. That wasn't the girl. She knew It's Mrs. Girlacre Luke's mom. How are you? She paused for a moment then added do you think you could call me when you get a chance Perhaps if she hadn't been on the phone Perhaps if she'd been paying attention more attention to the present instead of poking around in the cluttered debris of the past She'd have seen it a second earlier and had a chance to swerve Out of the way to avoid the unavoidable a sudden streak of brownish gray appeared just ahead and off to her right in the headlights Periphery it had bolted from some woods near the shoulder of the highway and appeared to fly Effortlessly into the tunnel of her headlights It was upon her or rather her sob and the brownish gray object seemed to meet at the intersection of their respective Trajectories as if there had been some intentionality to their separate movements an unstated agreement to be joined at exactly that point in Time and space Elizabeth help felt helpless didn't have the slightest chance to do anything hit the brakes were Tense herself for the impact utter a sound there was a nauseating Swank sound a deep bone breaking clatter as the deer's left flank Collided with the right front of Elizabeth's car She felt the jolt in his shoulder blades then felt herself being thrown forward and her nose slamming into the steering wheel She actually saw stars like in the cartoons little white pieces of light Dancing in front of rise and then the next moment not so much in slow motion as in a series of distinct still frames Still frames the creature was first suspended upside down over the hood of the car antlers pointing earthward then flattened against the windshield with an ear splitting and Finally in the rear view lying crumpled along the shoulder of the road. This all happened so fast Elizabeth hadn't even had time to be frightened Looking through a windshield and now appeared as as if glazed over with a thick sheet of ice She instinctively tried to steer the car toward the shoulder toward a shoulder of the road She couldn't see even then she could tell something was terribly wrong The steering wheel fought her like some sort of headstrong beast Felt as if it wanted to keep the car going straight on down the highway And she had to use all her strength to bend the wheel to her will When she'd finally managed to pull the car to a bumpy stop on the shoulder She sat there for a moment trembling her heart wrapping fiercely in her chest now. She had time to be afraid Damn, she cried at last Recovering her wit she got out and stood her head spinning slightly then went around to the front of the car With the light from her phone She saw that the right front fender was stove in their bumper and grill crumpled the headlights smashed and the assembly dangling Like in a nucleated eye her car appeared as if it had tangled with a Mack truck rather than a single frightened deer It was only then that she became aware of a throbbing in her head She reached up and touched the bridge of her nose The nose itself was mostly numb, but when she removed her hand or fingers or cover with something slippery and dark She was bleeding Walking back to the car She glanced up the highway and saw in the headlights of the oncoming traffic traffic The still lifeless form of the deer lying stretched out along the shoulder She thought of heading back and seeing to the poor creature Though viewing its broken and bleeding form up close would probably be the last straw She couldn't bear that so instead she got in her car avoided looking in the rear view mirror God, what would she give for the pint of cutty sark to be waiting for her in the glove compartment right now? She dialed a triple-a number. I just hit a deer. She's exclaimed to the operator shaking First things first the woman said she had a high-pitched twangy accent and the smokers raspy voice. Are you all right, ma'am? Mostly yes is the vehicle drivable. I don't think so. I don't know The operator took Elizabeth's information and where the accident occurred And then she told her she'd had someone out there as soon as she as possible But we're awful busy tonight ma'am on a kind of a storm yesterday I'm out in the middle of nowhere. Elizabeth explained to the woman and it's going to be dark soon Like I said, we'll have somebody out there as soon as we can the woman advised in the meantime You all want to lock your doors and stay in the car and don't talk to strangers Don't talk to strangers Elizabeth thought as she hung up Yet she went ahead and locked the doors and sat way up in the seat to look formidable to any would-be attacker For company. She listened to the radio When Freddy fenders wasted days and wasted nights came on Elizabeth couldn't fail to appreciate the army She'd been waiting there for nearly an hour when the winter cell finally rang Jesus it's about time. She cried ready to give the toke truck guy a piece of her mind Mrs. Girlacker a hesitant female voice replied Immediately she recognized it. Oh TJ. I'm sorry. I thought you were someone else How are you miss girlacker? I'm fine. Elizabeth replied. Well, that's a fine. Actually. I've just been in that car accident Oh, my goodness. Are you okay? Yeah, I just hit a gear. I'm waiting for the tow truck The conversation struck Elizabeth is peculiar here She just killed a deer was stranded along some highway in Tennessee and now if she was talking to her dead son's girlfriend ex-girlfriend Can I do anything TJ asked and call anybody for you? No, I think I'm all set the tow truck should be here any minute. Thanks for getting back to me so quickly your mom says You're living in Boston now. Yes working at the fine arts museum. That sounds exciting. Elizabeth said not really Not unless you consider a leading first grade tour is exciting. She said with a self-deprecating laugh The laugh was so familiar Elizabeth had an image of her sitting on the couch with her son for sandy blonde hair tied in a loose ponytail Her hand touching Luke's flannel shirted arm the first girl her son lived perhaps the only girl Still it's a start in Boston's a great city live in Elizabeth offered It's a lot more excited in Gar's Point another laughed which Elizabeth joined in nervously Laughing caused her nose to ache you go by test now, huh? Yeah, sort of it sounds more professional But you still can call me tests. So how are you? I'm good. The young woman replied busy This was followed by a pause awkward and weighty Which made Elizabeth wonder if you were debating whether or not to tell her something finally TJ blurred out. I'm engaged. Oh Elizabeth exclaimed feeling a shock akin to cutting oneself a chopping vegetables that moment of utter surprise Followed a few seconds later by the stabbing pain It shouldn't have hurt as much as it did but it did Another death as if yet another part of Luke a piece of the future had just been erased She called in how the girl's mother it seemed evasive when TJ had brought had been brought up Had she not wanted to be the one to tell her about engagement Elizabeth managed to recover quickly though. That's wonderful anyone from town. No, I met him in college Greg That's his name. Wow Congratulations, so when's the big day? We haven't set a date yet. We're not in any rush No sense in rushing it to things. The loser said that's great news. I'm so happy for you and she was Happy for that is she'd always loved TJ like a daughter in fact the one she never had But in the next moment Elizabeth found herself wondering just where that had left TJ and Luke Zach had said they'd gotten together several times the summer before their senior year the summer Luke died Had this future husband of hers is Greg Ben picture then had TJ be considering getting back together with Luke And it was only his death that put an end to their renewed relationship and allowed her to begin another one Elizabeth could recall how devastated TJ appeared at the funeral how much Luke's death death seemed to affect her How tragic that would have been if they finally gotten together back together again only to be separated by his sudden death And now TJ her one-time future daughter-in-law the potential mother of her grandchildren was going to marry someone else Elizabeth had all she could do not to start bawling She's cleansed her jaw. Don't she said to herself. Don't put that on TJ. It wasn't her fault. God What was she thinking contacting the girl? Elizabeth contact that contemplated making up some excuse for not wanting to talk for wanting to talk perhaps saying she was Simply interested in finding out what TJ was doing after all the girl had been such a large part of her son's life Not to mention hers and Zach's for so many years, but then again, Elizabeth had to admit she was curious If TJ and Luke had started to date again Why hadn't he spoke to his mother and if something had started up again between the two perhaps? It was somehow related to what he had wanted to tell Elizabeth that night More dots to be connected more pieces of the puzzle The reason I called that I wanted to ask you something about Luke. I'll leave this said sure miss girl Ecker The night he died he called me. He left a message on my phone saying it's something important He wanted to tell talk about but unfortunately. We never got the chance. Oh That's terrible. Yes, it has been not knowing what he wanted. That's why I called you I thought you might have some clue Outside in the highway the traffic roared by Elizabeth's car shuddering in the wake of every vehicle that passed the noise Making it sometimes difficult to hear TJ's soft voice Me TJ said I mean you and Luke were so close. Well, we were but not for a while Hadn't the two of you started seeing each other again. What? My husband said Luke told him that the two of you had gone out a few times that summer We didn't really go out miss the girl Ecker. We saw each other a few times hung out a little together as friends So you two weren't back together me and Luke. She replied with a fluttery little laugh that struck Elizabeth as condescending. No Elizabeth touched her nose and felt blood on her fingers cool and slippery to the touch May I ask you a personal question? Sure. I guess I'll teach you said but her tone was tended You and Luke always seemed so good together Elizabeth said I even thought you guys get married someday Me too miss girl Ecker then what happened? TJ was silent for a moment yet over the noise of the highway Elizabeth thought she caught a faint sniffling sound coming from the other end of the phone I'm sorry TJ Elizabeth offered. I probably shouldn't brought it up. No, it's it's all right It's just that I get so sad whenever I think about Luke I really liked him then like an unwelcome confession for what she felt guilty. She added loved him actually and he really loved you TJ not really What do you mean not really he loved me as a friend TJ said as a friend my god Luke was head over heels about you No, Mrs. Girl Ecker. It was the other way around. I was the one crazy about your son always was ever since like sixth grade Right then Elizabeth heard the intrusive beeping of another phone call. Could you hold for a minute TJ? That's probably a tow truck. Of course. Hello Elizabeth said to the other crawler ma'am our truck is running a little late the same woman's voice drawled It's been an hour already. He'll be there just as soon as he can Elizabeth click back to TJ. Sorry about that I'm a little confused TJ if you were so crazy about my son. Why did you break up with him me? She said her voice incredulous Luke was the one who didn't want to go out anymore But I was under the impression you didn't want to go out with him that you wanted to date other people Who told you that? Luke that's not true. Mrs. Girl Ecker. He was the one who broke it off with me. God. I cried for weeks Elizabeth sat there for a moment trying to digest the information She felt the dull throbbing emanating from where she'd hit her nose Radiating radiating back into her skull. It seemed to pulsate there like another heartbeat Why would Luke have lied to her? Why didn't you want her to know that he was the one who initiated the breakup? It didn't make sense She thought of simply dropping the whole thing saying goodbye to TJ Wishing her luck in it her new life and letting the past sink down into oblivion Instead though, Elizabeth asked why would he lie to me like that TJ? I don't know Mrs. Girl Ecker Girl Ecker, but it's so odd. Yes, it is. So you're saying Luke ended it? That's right Elizabeth's phone rang again, but this time she decided not to get it. Why do you think he did that TJ? I really don't know Mrs. Girl Ecker, but it doesn't really matter now. Does it? Elizabeth knew she was right. It was what Zach had been telling her all along What good would knowing any of this be now? They were kids. They'd split up What was the big deal? Who broke broke up with whom? Elizabeth shivered feeling suddenly cold. It was completely dark out now and sitting there on the side of the highway She felt helpless and vulnerable felt like that time they temporary temporarily lost week in Wales during their vacation As if as if at the mercy of unknown and hostile forces Stopped she warned herself before it's too late But something in her a need both perverse and yet inexorable compelled her forward It matters to me TJ. I Don't think he was interested. She said pausing and having a relationship anymore. You mean with you with anyone really? I felt Luke pulling away for a long while. Was it somebody else? Elizabeth said another girl I don't think so. He didn't seem to be interested in women anymore. Not in that way In what way Elizabeth said feeling a hot pressure building in her throat Sexually TJ said what are you saying TJ? He didn't seem to be interested in me in that way Are you saying that my son was gay? I'm not sure What do you mean? You're not sure Elizabeth cried anger and bewilderment leeching into her voice Elizabeth thought she heard a voice whisper in the background of the foam a young man's voice Who is that was that her fiance the Greg who had replaced her Luke? He seemed confused mr. Gerlacker confused you mean about his sexual orientation About a lot of things, but you dated him for the years of it. They said do you think he was gay? I Don't know Really in that last year, so I felt there was something different about Luke something that had become between us Elizabeth recalled but Luke had Luke's one-time best friend grift had told her about Luke changing being in his own little world How do you mean different TJ? I don't know how to explain it I think he was struggling with something he talked about going away for a while away Maybe joining the Peace Corps after graduation or teaching out on an Indian reservation Peace Corps Indian reservation all this came as a surprise Who is it as if Luke was a complete stranger to her someone who had never she had never really known? She sucked in a mouthful of air and felt suddenly sick to her stomach enough. She told herself She didn't need to hear anymore. She didn't need for this to go on She could pretend that this conversation never even took place and yet once started It seems she couldn't stop as if her own curiosity had an irresistible momentum that carried her onward even against her will I'm his mother Elizabeth said defensively. How come he never said any of this to me I don't know he just said it just seems so odd that he would lie to me that are you saying Luke was a liar I didn't say that mr. Lacker. Then what are you saying? He felt he couldn't talk to you what he thought you wouldn't understand Her comments felt like a slap in the face. In fact, Elizabeth felt her cheeks turned hot with embarrassment. Really? He said that yes in a supercilious tone Elizabeth said frankly I find all of this very hard to believe hurt and angered by what TJ had said Elizabeth wanted to lash out the lawyer in her seemed to take over she hardened herself slipped into a ruthless cross examination mode Are you going to deny the two of you were intimate? She challenged Mrs. Gerlacker, please were you I'd rather not talk about if you don't mind well I do mind if you're going to accuse my son of being gay at least you could provide evidence Elizabeth said as if this were a child and she were cross examining a hostile witness. I didn't say he was gay I just said he can he seemed confused about things and I'm supposed to just take you at your word and my son not here to defend himself Mrs. Gerlacker. I loved I loved Luke The simple invocation of her son's name and the profession of her love for him stopped Elizabeth dead in her tracks She realized suddenly she'd overstepped any sort of decency TJ was right whatever her and Luke's relationship was or wasn't it certainly was none of her business She took a breath I'm so sorry TJ. Please forgive me. It's okay. No, it's not okay. You were always a wonderful friend to Luke and to my Husband and me. I had no right to say those things Don't worry about that. I just wish things had turned out differently. They were silent for a moment Can I ask you one more question? Sure when you met him that summer? Do you think whatever he was going through was troubling him then? Yes, I think that's why he wanted to get away really Yes, he talked about driving cross-country to clear his head After a while, they said they're to buys and hung up Elizabeth sat there feeling numb to more than anything a kind of shell shock as if she tried to as she tried to Process all the TJ had said to her that Luke was the one to break off the relationship That he was confused that he wasn't interested in women that the trip had been means to clear his head That he was as TJ put it Struggling with something Elizabeth also felt embarrassed for how she think how cool she been to TJ She had no right to say those things to the poor kid yet would trouble the Lizbeth most perhaps was the fact that Luke felt He couldn't talk to her couldn't tell her any of this of course if he had been gay She'd have still loved him. She'd have loved him that no matter what that wasn't the issue But if he were gay and that was still a big if to Liz's mind, why hadn't she known? How could he be so utterly incomplete how could she be so utterly and completely in the dark about her son's sexual orientation? Wouldn't she? Shouldn't she have seen clues strewn along the way? How could a mother have missed such an enormous part of her son's life? And how could Luke have managed to keep something that huge a secret from her and Zach all those years under the same roof? If it were true What sort of mother had she been that he didn't trust her enough to be able to place in her care something so essential So crucial to what who he was at the same time Who would have explained certain things the distance she felt in her son that inward turning she had sensed in Luke? God she thought she'd been such a fool for going on this trip for opening up this terrible can of worms. Thank you This novel I'll be try to be brief this novel start out a number of years ago by stopping at those memorials those discontos those roadside memorials I stopped at Dozens and then later hundreds and we get out and go up to and and look at what those things said How many people have done that stopped you should do it sometime Some are just very simple stones Some have whole histories and stories and part of the stories for going cross-country and looking at these things and as I did that I started to understand the grief of a mother or of anybody a father a son You know anybody there was one the very first one. I stopped that was in New Hampshire And I was in a back row and I pulled off and I had seen it a bunch of times. I finally stopped and There was all this you know debris a flotsam Presence gifts Tokens of a person's love and there was something from a son to a father and a mother to the son and it was a young man in his 30s, there was a picture laminate on his post and I started to feel as what grief was there in this context I Don't know I don't have a good answer for that. I wanted some distance for me and And and I you know I what I tell writers sometimes you don't take the easy choice you take one that's going to be more interesting chapter 11 Well There there's a making number of changes in chapters 1 through 10 And the construction is not quite done yet The movers are still coming there are a couple chapters I could have read but I thought I thought there's a there's a chapter I think it's chapter 2 now And I have read that chapter some of the faculty here have been here for a couple of years heard me tell that where she stops Early on the novel where she stops and sees a man at the side of the road and it's pouring rain And she's not quite sure what he's doing and she stops Before she's has even an inkling that she's going to go on this trip to where he died And she sees his man and she gets out of the car and he's in pouring rain And she gets on before she gets right up to him She sees he's kneeling and praying the rain to one of these roadside morals I've read that chapter, and I just didn't want to read that chapter again That would have been an easier chapter because there's a lot less that happens before that be a lot less Explanation, but I've read that before and I wanted to test this one out So this is a this is a revised chapter that is been in the works for a while It's been there for a long time the book is finished. I'm just making some revisions. Yeah road trip Well It is it here it's it's after the first hundred pages is are about her home in this Connecticut town She's a she does a lot of pro bono work with a a an island off the coast of Connecticut And she does pro bono work for somebody she works with women and and then she meets this man she's Established how distant she is with her husband and and then the background and she meets this man again And she's got problems at work. She has problems with her husband And after me having two meetings with man She met along the roadside she decides to go cross country and and she's going to go to the spot Where he died in New Mexico and I can talk about research. I did that I drove cross country I followed the route that she would it be take would be taking it took hundreds of pictures and went out this little desert town in northern Mexico and That's where her son died And there was a reference earlier the prologue I Was thinking about cutting it but the the editors really liked it five-page prologue where Luke is a five-year-old boy and they go on a trip from England to to From Wales to Ireland on that midnight ferry you've ever been over there and when they get out they misplace him He gets lost for a few minutes and it's the most petrifying moment for ten minutes They've lost him and they think and she already jumps ahead as any parent would he's gone He's missing I'll never get him again, and then you find him and that is the kind of a threat That's gonna have 21 or 20 15 years later, and this time he doesn't come back. He's he's been killed About page 100 and the and it's the next 250 so about 30% of of establishing things at home, and then the road trip Yeah Right My agent and my editors it would very much like me to write one kind of thing and I follow my interests, and I have three historical novels and and I'm working on a historic that this German novel set in 36 and about 60% I was almost gonna read from that But I just not finished it And yeah, the other three or four are contemporary my show Sorry, I'd like to go back before I follow whatever fine. I find interesting this story somewhere along the line I saw these these Burrwoodside memorials they this these discounts house, and I said I got to stop some time and Finally in New Hampshire was the first time and then if you go back to the second one was at exit 80 or 81 Right outside of New London if you're going east Okay, and you look off. There's this kind of clover leaf exit Okay, and so in the middle of the clover leaf on the right hand exit around 80 81 There's this kind of stand of trees and there are two little crosses and one time I had seen it coming up to Enders and sometime later I I drove out here throw off clover leaf stop climbed a 10-foot chain link fence went down and went up there sat there to pictures and You know it was it was a moment of trying to understand What what a parent would go through and then I did that over and over and over again I gave a lecture about a year and a half ago about the empathetic imagination Okay, there's lots of things is right. We don't know and hopefully we will never know But as right as we we can't be in all places and experience all things But we can try to use our imagination empathetic Imagine that you see your condescending but you're trying to understand how a parent would lose a child or a father We heard somebody read a story about a father a sick father today Shannon You know and so we try to understand With You know I talked in my in the workshop today about using dialogue right and And this is the kind of the hot white center of fiction You know for me anyway Where you're putting two characters in a moment of great intensity on the stage and letting them have at it with each other And there's about up in those point There's about three or four really I think white hot moments where there's stuff that's happening One is with the man along this highway one is with her husband another is another one with that man along the highway And then this is there's a couple before that but this is really important It goes on for several many pages and I had to rewrite a lot of times because the facts of what I was doing changed Okay, and this Yeah, and this may actually be a red heron What have a lot yeah, that's a really good point You know most of my novels have a major driving force Okay, a strong plot. I do like that. I love characterization. I love great characters. I love interesting conflicts I love wonderful prose, but I also like a strong plot I like I like to be carried along on that kind of wave and And I don't like the plot to overwhelm character I like the plot to be strong enough But I like the characters in the situation the pros to be strong so that you can stop every once in a while and read passages more slowly and I guess I learned you know I Learned to trust that you don't I feel comfortable when I have a driving plot and Except that I had this kind of skeleton of a road trip. It was a much more of a Eulogy, you know where she's doing a lot of thinking on this trip before she goes in and later And at some point it's almost too much thinking, you know, I had to get her doing some things too You know, she can't just sit there being thinking, you know, she's got to do something, you know And the business about the deer where she's on the phone Thinking about something or try thinking about what what she whether she should be asking her son's girlfriend It was not even his girlfriend anymore about their past and whether having sex and you know Well, she wouldn't didn't plan on it She just sort of wanted what was he feeling and you know, I love them and we you know And she wanted the simple answer and she didn't get a simple answer and the business about the deer I was up in New Hampshire It was right when the stock market was collapsing And I'm on the phone talking to my stockbroker and he's telling me how he's just relax relax relax I'm losing all my money And and I'm trying to concentrate. I'm going through these woods and wouldn't you know a goddamn deer has to come running out Right then. Okay. Well, I'm losing money. I hit him. He flies over the hood just like this I see him out of the quarter mile. I go flying back and lying there. I get out. I go back By the time I go back I hang up with my my accountant. He's still trying to say relax relax I just said I had a deer too and it's your fault and I go back and the deer got up and ran it to the woods I come back to my car and it's $5,000 damage But that was a real thing I Guess I learned not to trust your accountant and watch out for deer Other questions Yeah, I Mentioned this in my class the importance and I think Peter mentioned it today about the importance of models I always talk about I have three or four models I was reading a book called out of Kittridge. I had read it before I went back and reread it And I read it almost the way we'd read a prayer every morning To get me into a woman's head and to get me into any head in a deep complex kind of way And not a simple way and I and I would read that over and over again That didn't give me much in terms of structure because there's structures all over the place I have a clearer structure to this book But that was one of them Anything else? How about one There is something about writing did you find a commonality in these best consoles where they mostly younger people? Yeah at one point she says Either right before this chapter right after I forget she said either as she drove south They were much more reckless drivers or much more religious because they were everywhere and they were and Starting in Virginia and certainly through Tennessee and through many through Arkansas tons through Texas in New Mexico I think the Catholic influence is is pronounced and I think it's one aspect of it But you'd see hundreds and after a while I was going with a buddy of mine Across country and we'd stop and we'd stop and we'd stop and then we stopped stopping at every one We look at ones. They're pretty interesting. I'll just give you a couple. There was one in in New Mexico right outside of Roswell and there was this cross and It was on a Bob next to a Bargore fence. There was a guitar couple guitars There was like a field hockey stick and it was this picture of this beautiful Hispanic girl You know sort of laminated and nailed to the fence post and all these flowers and all this stuff and you know a little Madonna's and and Piatah is in fact, there's one scene where there's a in another scene There's a small little Piatah in one of these things and she talks about a mother holding her dead son in her arms And she said why didn't I hold my son in the morgue when I saw him and she feels great Regret for not doing that. So in this one. It was really funny I saw all this stuff and I got on when we stopped Online and I Google and it came up and this young woman was like 19 or 20 and she was killed But she was the one who killed five other people and They didn't have a discount. So only she had discounts. So those are this great irony and then there was this other one I'll just say one more There is to process and I talked I talked about the research These were things found and said here Michael take them use them in your book. I saw two two Crosses one bigger one smaller and there was a name of one with a last name and a birth date and a death date And then the little one had a death date and a being a man and two men were standing there I'm going. Hmm. What's that? What's that? And suddenly a light went off and I said, oh my god And I said I got to use this I took pictures of it I have a picture I could share all these pictures and he wants to see this stuff There was one story after another in fact She the man she sees along the highways his name is George Ducette and he says to her, you know, you should do this I stopped at a lot of these not just my wife's because they're all this these stories You should do it when I stop at another discount. So I feel connected to my dead wife who was killed here six years ago And so I do this and I go and I stop and I'll sometimes let a candle at somebody else's Roadside Memorial Okay, and I'm not a religious guy, but this was very touching and to see that there was a fetus died at this point and somebody named the fetus and somebody put the things in after this and Then by the way right up one lesson right outside of New Haven there was there was a young girl killed and I modified it and I changed it and I thought and there was one cross that I found that had a Concrete base with a with a with metal coming up and it was fancy and I thought Imagine the father the mother down his workshop Putting this thing together painting the name on Fixing it, you know getting it just perfect bringing it out to digging the hole putting it in having some kind of Memorial service right there along the side of the highway and she talks about this at one point She's there by herself and she starts to build this momentum that I gotta go and I have to see and she's gotta do So she goes down. There's a couple other surprises when she gets down there You know, it's not a mystery novel, but it's the mystery of the heart and of people in the world I don't know I Don't I know I I hope it's not too Obviously religious, but it isn't Yeah, I mean I will give the editor many of these crosses, okay These pictures as crosses that I took because they're just you know, some are just you know heartbreaking and wonderful run wonderfully Evocative, you know I mean, there were a couple that were just sort of you know stones piled on top of stones There was one I saw in Virginia It was right after an overpass and Somebody literally took a couple of branches that they got out of the woods and took a scarf Wrapped it around this way in this way Tried to dig a hole and then and they really there was no hole They just put stones around and it was like this and they'd been there forever. It seemed you know others are really fancy You know others are incredibly fancy But I mean I would just sort of you know challenge you to just stop at one or two and you'll see these stories You know some are kind of plain, but others tell whole stories, you know, who puts stuff goodbye daddy, you know, blah blah blah And it's you know, it's it's it could be modeling of course, you know Like Grey's Elegy, but it I hope I hope my book is not modern, but there's a great deal of genuine pathos there You'll see a collection of stuffed animals, and well, it's I live in a neighborhood. It's mostly and they have the tall glass candles that have Images on them and You don't get a story, but it's it's like it's like the same thing But I don't know how did you just invent the story around the cross? Well, well, if you look I saw many that they tell story another example in Kansas There were four crosses all together and there were two bigger ones and two smaller ones I could show the pictures and that one bigger one one smaller one had the same name one bigger one smaller one had the same name There were two brothers and two brothers So four kids were killed at this one spot here and I looked it up and I looked up the the accident You know just you get a search. I had the names. I did search and yes, they were they got hit by truck Yeah, sometimes sometimes you'll just see teddy bears or some kind of small thing You know most that I've seen that I stopped that had a cross at some kind of cross sophisticated or rudimentary, but some kind of cross One more question What did I tie it's called resting places? which is the Spanish for it's the English for discounts