 Okay, we're back. This is think tech. This is Hawaii the state of clean energy right here right now And today we're going to talk about electric vehicles because we haven't talked enough about electric vehicles Everybody should be talking about electric vehicles and I have proof Melissa Pavichak is the executive director of the Hawaii automobile dealers association. So happy to see her here. Welcome, Melissa Thank you. Aloha. Aloha Michael Cologne Is with the Unupono initiative, which we love very much. It's very important organization used to be with Hawaiian Electric But as I said as you told me for the show four out of five people on Bishop Street have been with Hawaiian Electric Anyway, welcome to the show Michael. Aloha. Thank you. And you are you direct energy at Unupono initiative. It's a great job We all we all want your job Michael I So, you know, why are we are we all our associate dealers? What not? You know why Melissa, you know, you've been a public policy person for about 2,000 years Wait a minute But the Hawaii automobile dealers association did have a longtime executive director named Dave Ralph who was doing it for 2,000 years and He was a strong advocate for the automotive industry and for clean energy in Hawaii And I'm really pleased and proud to be able to work with 67 new auto dealers in Hawaii I just came back from the National Automobile Dealers Association so in Las Vegas, which had 14 football fields worth of new cars. So that was pretty exciting Of the 14 football fields, how many were electric cars? a very large percentage and you probably know that Hawaii has the fourth highest rate of Electric vehicle adoption of any state in the country and as I talked to automotive dealer Association executives like myself from other states and metropolitan areas. I discovered that Hawaii has a lot of good policies in place and a lot of EV adoption as compared to some of my counterparts across the country So I'm really excited to talk about this today And I am too but I want more. I want more cars more electric cars here That's the mission. Is that the mission for you Michael? What what what what connection do you have with electric cars at Lupano? Well Lupano is an impact investment firm focused on improving Hawaii in four key areas renewable energy clean fresh water Local sustainable agriculture and that's sustainable transportation and on the transportation front it covers both multimodal and vehicle miles travel reduction as well as electrification and transportation which we view as Good synergy to reduce carbon emissions and eliminate our dependence on foreign oil as well as improve overall grid stability over time Okay, so the idea is we're going to inquire as to What the situation is it sounds good Melissa and what it can be? And then how are we going to get there that that's that's the way I look at it But first I want to show a clip that you gave us From some kids here in Hawaii. I wanted to show you this clip because the Hawaii automobile dealers Association is Very concerned about the number of qualified automotive Technicians in our state and in thinking about what some of the challenges and barriers are to making electric vehicles attractive to car purchasers in Hawaii of course, it's the ability to get it repaired The vehicle is repaired. So it's maintaining and and repairing EVs is a component of incentivizing and increasing adoption of EVs in Hawaii and Leeward Community College and the other community colleges have partnered with HADA and you're you're seeing the Leeward Community College amazing students here and we're Trying to get the students to work in the dealerships and stay here for these good paying technology oriented computer related jobs and so we've been sending HR professionals into the Leeward Community College to train them and how to be interviewed and match up with good paying jobs and some of the Data that we've seen like nationally Automotive tech start in the average range of like $40,000 a year but a good high-paying automotive tech here in Hawaii Who is trained and certified in EV and other types of vehicles makes well in excess of $100,000 a year and recently? I was told by some dealers. They're paying as much as $180,000 a year So this is really a good opportunity to both build our workforce educate our kids who will hopefully stay here in Hawaii and promote EV adoption Hmm, maybe that's why I have to pay so much when I go down for servicing Nevermind No, I mean, I know we're speaking a little lightly right now and just kind of getting our feet wet and talking about this but a part of the case for why a new car purchaser would want to consider EV is The cost of the vehicle the cost to repair and the cost to operate a vehicle and all of those are really Interesting policy opportunities and the legislature has been doing work in all of those areas And so I know we're going to talk about that a little bit more But in terms of building our workforce that is a key component of ensuring that repairing our vehicles can get done Efficiently and effectively here in Hawaii. Yeah, I agree absolutely and we should have this kind of skill And we should keep up with the technology those kids should know not only how to do Classical cars, but also EVs which are more specialized So add Jay on that note in addition to electric vehicles and the repair and maintenance of those We're also ushering in a whole new era of infrastructure as well on the charging side And we can get further into the needs looking down the road But there's also a need for charging Infrastructure support installation repair and ongoing maintenance as well. So at the same time as training for Vehicle techs, which is crucial. We also need to be Wrapping up our just broader technical expertise and workforce development skill development for this Infrastructure as well because it's high power. So if you have to have a certain kind of Safety training for electricity plus its computers And so that combination really requires a unique skill set in addition to the vehicles which are also more complicated So, yeah, we a loophole. We definitely support workforce and skill training To really help us show this in as it will be a growing need going forward You're bringing up such a good and important issue not just as a workforce issue though infrastructure is a huge focus of what we advocate for at our state legislature because Selling a vehicle to a homeowner And if they reside in a multifamily dwelling or an apartment if they don't have access to charging stations It is very challenging. And so even if they have a single-family home Ensuring that they can charge their vehicle whether it's at home or at work and Making sure that we're having strategies to expand the vehicle charging stations is really important and one of the ways that we have asked legislators to consider and they are Considering different strategies is to have government need by example. So very often we see bills or requirements that say The commercial property owners or private residences should have charging stations But we have the only unified school district in the whole country. And if we had charging stations and you know Solar PV at all the schools, which I know a lot of schools do but this would be Another way for government to lead by example and there are Definitely policies in place, especially with the state department of transportation and other governmental agencies to implement Clean energy strategies. So I'm I'm excited and encouraged by that. Well, you know You know, I I foresee a time and I have foreseen this for a long time When gas stations, you know the traditional sense are they will have charging stations Every single one of them has a charging station may be multiple charging station and then one day, you know The gas station like disappears. This is like the Karl Marxian state The state disappears and we have gas stations which only have charging stations on Um, do you foresee that Michael? Do you foresee a time when charging stations are ubiquitous? Because right now, although I would say it's hard to feel range anxiety Because there are enough, you know to allay that concern fact is we all feel much better if every gas station You know add or turned into a charging. What do you think? So I I think when we talk about range anxiety, it is important to remember that um It may not you may not feel it the same here on Oahu But places like the big island or Maui where the driving distances are longer. They Still do experience range anxiety and it's kind of indicative of a lack of charging infrastructure And going forward there will be more charging opportunities in place around the state And it's a different paradigm because as Melissa mentioned, there's also A vast majority of people can just plug in when they go home So they change their routine, but there still needs to be well, you know a backbone of EV charging in the public sphere That is available and accessible for people to leverage if they decide Hey, I want to be spontaneous and go somewhere else and I didn't remember to charge Or I've been driving a ton and I need to need to charge up before I go home We need to have those places Those opportunities in place so that people can Live their lives as kind of freely as they do now under uh, where gas stations are very ubiquitous And then on top of it when Melissa mentioned, um, the state leading by example, I completely agree And there are fantastic opportunities to kind of leverage those school buses at you know with solar on the roof set the schools With batteries as resilience hubs as well So when if a disaster happens or when a hurricane comes the first thing that people do is they gas up their cars Well now you have batteries and you have a need to charge And there needs to be the infrastructure in place to support that resiliency as we kind of shift Into a different kind of way of fueling our vehicle. So it's a It is a fundamental shift in the way people think and behave But I do see it happening over time and and The other thing that Melissa brought up in the beginning about hawaii being one of the top Vehicle adoption states in the country. It's true. And it's been that case. We used to be number two always behind california And we did it with relatively fewer incentives than any other state We have we're not a zev mandate state meaning we're not part of the You know collective of states that have aggressively mandated towards electric vehicles We did it with very little purchase incentives for vehicles. We had one very early on when we first The early days of the ebbs. We don't have that anymore Um, and it went away very quickly And so with our relatively low amount of incentives We've achieved that significant adoption and I think it has a lot to do with with The eco consciousness of the state, but also How it makes sense for the average driver To be more efficient and leverage electricity for their fueling. So I just wanted to say that I I definitely think hawaii is Going to continue to be on the forefront of I want to I like to be follow me get to that. I'd like to I'd like to just follow at one point And that is uh, you know, I keep hearing about the reason is people with hybrids are oh, they're so happy Because they don't have to get a lot of gas and they don't have to charge up either The one feeds the other and so maybe the need for charging stations in the future will change Because of hybrids on the other hand, I don't know of a lot of people You know who are getting hybrids these days the ones I know who have them love them Because of that exchange between, you know, the battery and the and the gasoline But wouldn't that be helpful in terms of dealing with the the charging station issue michael? so When you have a hybrid you essentially have your You know quick charger on board your vehicle in the form of the gasoline engine And so it creates that secondary buffer, which you don't have to worry about Um plug electricity range because you can always rely on your gasoline so It is a bridge to the future At the end of the day from an efficiency standpoint electric vehicles still are vastly more efficient when it comes to a miles per gallon equivalent And then the one final thing and I think it's important with mentioning or remembering is that We have a renewable portfolio standard in place meaning that we are eventually going to achieve 100 clean electricity With you power your vehicle Over time the power supplying that vehicle will be cleaner and cleaner and cleaner as we get closer to the rps Whereas if you have a gasoline vehicle, you will always be emitting and contributing to You know carbon emissions at some level regardless of whether it's a hybrid or Or not so that's just one of those things that you know over time. Hopefully we'll be able to make our Our collective emissions, whether it's at the central station electricity plant or at the tailpipe, you know It's it's cleaner and cleaner over time as a result of our electrification Listen, you wanted the same something that you said earlier And it was this vision about not having gas stations anymore And I just wanted to say and you kind of said it already You know It's hard to have a vision for what will be Without unintentionally having some consequences that might not be so good. And so I think hybrids do play a role and We are now seeing challenges with electric battery recycling and the state legislature is considering a bill To have an additional study about how do we ensure that the electric batteries electric vehicle batteries and other Equipment is appropriately dealt with and it's not these challenges with shipping them off the island or Can we do some recycling here in Hawaii? So I get uncomfortable when we have a vision without And locking in into a particular solution and I get very comfortable with Promoting and incentivizing educating and and explaining the benefits But where I get a little struggle is when we are pre selecting some of the solutions or driving a policy that might cause other Worst problems or significant challenges So for the hawaii automobile dealers association, we've been Observing and commenting that the timing might be going a bit fast on things like our state's road usage charge So as a policy we're saying we're going to see more people using electric vehicles They aren't going to be paying gas taxes to maintain the roads Instead we're going to charge them a road usage charge At the same time we want to increase promote and incentivize use of electric vehicles And like michael said, we haven't had to spend a lot of money to do that But that's not less than the benefits not right now not while we're trying to ramp up So I think we're really just struggling with some of the timing and the implementation of those policies Yes, I would like to talk about the incentivization and how that works and your point is very well taken About doing, you know road charges When you don't don't sell as much gasoline and you can't tax that But but question, you know All this raises in my mind a diversification of the electric vehicle portfolio And one possibility which you know, there are organizations like hnei working on hydrogen And then there are hydrogen buses being deployed right now in the big island So query where does hydrogen fit in all of this because it's not the same as a pure ev is it? Right well, we see some bills in this legislature right now to promote Leaps of government vehicles to be hydrogen and we definitely have some automobile dealers further exploring hydrogen vehicles And I just want to ensure that hawaii has its options open and we don't Pre-determine some results that might leave us on the short end of the stick What's better? You're asking me to choose among my children and I cannot answer the question But I think there's you know better answer really good answer. Well, it's that yes Go ahead I just think you know, there's comparisons right on costs of the vehicle maintenance, etc And these are the same comparisons we do with combustion engine vehicles and that over time the optimal solution is to make things in the best interest of the consumer and that hopefully will be Set up in such a way that it is also in the best interest of the state the world the planet, etc And I think I just see a lot of promise and I'm really encouraged by the way in which New vehicle purchases are unfolding and I hope that we will see A continued increase in ev purchases I did recently receive a report on new auto sales for the last quarter The end of last year and the impact of the maui wildfires on new car purchases in hawaii has dampened somewhat the the increase in new car sales following Covid and you know, there had been a little bit of pent up demand there that we were catching up on last year And I think we saw a softening of that quite at the end of the year But uh expected new growth in 2024. So we're excited Well, you know There was a time when people wondered whether hawaii was keeping up on evs And and even now I think some people wonder although the the numbers on a national comparison sound good Fact is that what are we at 15,000 not quite 20,000? Uh evs in the state 30,000 30,000. Yeah, which is still Not that much. I mean in total when you compare it's about three percent Of the total registered vehicles uh, but but there's actually a better story to be told and I you know, molest You know, if I'm a little bit off, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I do think It's the sales year over year sales growth of ev Which is a real Good story to tell and it's You know, um when you compare 2023 To 2022 um a wall and kawaii were around 25 percent increase in ev sales year on year And then mommy the bigger one were much bigger was uh around 40 percent growth So I mean it's pretty significant when you look at it. It's still a small amount total But it's growing and that's that's kind of where you're seeing the action happen And you have to look at how long people are holding their vehicles So yes, we can have a high rate on the new car purchases But it's still you know, it's tough if people aren't going to be Turning over a new car for a long time. So are you saying that electric vehicles don't have to be turned over as frequently? No, I'm not saying that I don't actually know what the data is on that I'm just saying that if we have you know, will you mention classic cars? We can have cars out there for a really long time. That's not no matter how many new cars we buy It's still if you still got your Jay you said you were mentioning the 2000 year old man I don't know how old your vehicle is in your car, but I bet it's you know more than a year What a true fact Well, you know, you know what people say and I would be interested in how you feel about this is that Um, the batteries don't last all that long, you know, big battery expensive battery $5,000 battery And in some part along the way the battery is going to go and it's going to go maybe Within a shorter time than the useful life of an ordinary, you know, a classic gasoline car What about that? Is the technology changing are we going to have batteries with logger? You're not in your head Michael. I like that We're going to have batteries with logger useful lives Or do I have to worry about plunking down $5,000 after five years? So I don't think the batteries are that volatile that they would be useful not useful after five years The chemistry has changed and I like to kind of use the analogy of Battery the state of battery technology is kind of what computers and processors were in the 80s We're still in that early phase of trying to you know, improve efficiencies and there's a lot more to go I mean if you I kind of geek out on battery stuff and watch the news on different chemistries And you're seeing all kinds of new technologies being tested and tried that are way more Efficient and those chemistries will be come to market and they will improve those efficiencies not only in terms of the capacity but the life of the battery and the ability and the use of Materials and in the building so I think there's there's a lot to be done and then as far as the waste stream We definitely acknowledge that so that is a concern It's interesting though because when you think about the waste stream from fossil fuel, right? It's it's You can't see it, but it's in the air. It's accumulating. We know it's causing problems When you have a battery, it's a tangible thing. You can see it in front of you, but that's that being said um The co-founder of tesla One of the co-founders went off and started his own battery recycling company and There's a lot of opportunity there with those batteries because they can essentially take take them apart And pull apart the different materials and repackage it again for new batteries And so there will be a secondary market Whether that happens on Hawaii is a whole conversation. We definitely support You know looking at that So we can minimize impact on Hawaii and also maybe create opportunities for future You know jobs or industry as well related to batteries, but It's it's a chain. We're at an inflection point in time with with transportation It's really interesting to see and exciting to be part of Jay, it seems like you're gonna need some technical experts to come on and talk to you about some of those things And i'm glad that we could talk about some of the bigger policy issues But you know, especially because you invited both michael and myself to chat with you today I'm really excited about um hot as partnership with ulupono and our support for each other's programs and we've been exploring Uh doing an ev auto showcase together highlighting ev vehicles to the community educating people together Participating in energy conferences together and i'm just excited about that going forward Well, you know, it reminds me of something called better place I don't know if you remember that that that company you could do because I was associated with a final electric and and so One remarkable thing two remarkable things better one is you would be able to charge your battery from your rooftop solar Um, and then you wouldn't have to buy additional energy from the utility that that was an interesting I said though the other is that it it could create a kind of you know huge extended grid So that if you had excess energy in your car, you could feed it back into the grid Uh, which is a better place was talking about that. Unfortunately, they're no longer in business Um, but they had some very really visionary ideas and uh, you know, I hope when you do this the I'm really looking forward to seeing how it how it unfolds. Yes. There are two sides There's the technical side. There's the policy side, you know, and and there's the what I say the utility and community side of it Well connected and uh, you know, each side touches All the other sides, but melissa don't don't sell yourself short. You're in public policy And you know what goes on in the square building and um, so you know what goes on, you know, every session You know, what's goes on about transportation and about energy and and about electric vehicles first of all Hata Hata is composed of Dealers right by definition And those dealer dealer day at the capital we're going to be Meeting with legislators and policy makers coming up in march And our state director of transportation committed to join us there and we're going to be talking more I hope that michael will join us up there and jay if we could see you at the capital that'd be amazing, too I want to follow up on that for sure So, you know down there with all those people talking about, you know, they used to say that as general motive goes So goes the nation that didn't transmute it First day was saying as energy goes so goes the economy But now I would say we will refine view of that is as electric cars go So goes transportation and thus so goes the economy. So this is a really central issue for the ledge Um, and you know, we could we could waste money. We could waste our environment. We can also do the right thing So my question to you mother. Oh, this is such a I've been waiting to ask you this question We had uh as michael mentioned We had incentives. We had a tax credit here on top of the federal tax credit and the one day As if in a puff of smoke No tax credit not state no state tax credit and it's gone. It's like it's gone like the super ferry It's gone and the question I ask you is why is it gone? Wouldn't it have been good to keep it and and depending on your answer? Shouldn't we have it again? You know, I Attended a five-hour briefing on the gap in the state budget and I'm sure the legislators will have a lot to say about that But I look forward to working with you and talking with you about it in the future as well as with michael and the automobile dealers So I'm not sure I have the answer today Okay, all right, but all they say is uh, yes, I'm interested in following up on it I would like to see it come back. I would like to see why the um, you know Unqualified number one in the country and the world per capita to have more electric vehicles We are a model and we should be way out there with lots and lots of electric vehicles I can tell you there's a lot of people. I know that are waiting for this credit. That's not a matter of money It's a matter of the state government gives a nod when the state government gives a tax credit It's more than the tax credit. It's saying we believe in this We want this we want you to be Partner with us about electric vehicles and when it when it got pulled, you know The message was other than that. So, um, you know, I feel the incentives ought to be replete everywhere Hey, and I also feel and let me ask you about this student whatever incentives or benefits People get with an electric vehicle shouldn't that apply? Uh, two hydrogen vehicles also, you know, like free parking at the airport They still have that or a certain number of stalls in a given parking lot the commercial property If they still have that, uh, what kind of an other incentives aside from tax credits Are we interested in and are they going to apply do they apply it across the board? Yeah, I think there's a lot there in all of the different buckets we talked about today Including like we said maintenance and repair ease of operation You identified a few like parking. I think uh, mandating Bases causes some challenges. Um, which base is wearing who's to pay for them? But overall we'd like to see, uh, government support the implementation of, um, clean energy vehicles. Sure. Yeah, that sounds amazing The high priority, you know, it's one of those things where government sometimes forget forgets, you know, what is when his priorities were and years go by and And other things come up and the priorities, you know, the political Wins change and so forth. Um, but this is something that we should always always have So michael, you know, what what should we do? What should we do as people who are interested in the future of the state? Um, you know, with there's a certain level of resistance, you know talk to people Don't you think you should get electric car and they say no, no, no, it's it's not time yet You know when when everything is in place to force me then I will but for now I'm I'm an old-fashioned gas man No, I mean what what what should people be thinking? What can we do to get them thinking? You know in a more progressive way Well, you know, I think um moving forward Well, the point I would support, you know, increase incentives Um more infrastructure more charging deeper integration with the grid so that uh, it's a grid resource It's a it's a benefit to the grid as opposed to a potential risk to the grid And uh addressing fleets converting fleets and other kind of super users that You know drive a lot high intensity Use of gasoline vehicles we can target those folks for conversion and really make a dent in emissions And then, you know standardizing it won't happen locally, but the national standardization of the charging standard There's multiple charging standards different technologies that'll make Investments more efficient over time because you have one standard to build to as opposed to multiples um, but really, you know Encouraging the adoption Leading people to make those decisions um, we believe is crucial to changing, you know people's minds The vehicles are great. They I think they sell themselves. They're a fun to drive and you know, um I've I've owned one now for many years and um, you know Have reaped the benefits of being able to uh reduce by Maintenance and ongoing costs of ownership And I think it's those benefits sell themselves But the charging and the infrastructure lay the pathways so that it's more deeply integrated for people Uh going forward for our community is is kind of what's needed. Um Going forward, you know, you make me think of uh, martin luther king and I have a dream And I want to tell you my dream for electric vehicles My dream is that all the vehicles are electric And if it's mandated that would be fine that would get us over the hump But the other part of it is very interesting is whether, you know, the buses that trucks You know, non Personal automobiles are also electrified Um, that's part of my dream too. Is that part of your dream, michael? um, so And I don't want to get into like a technology debate because I think hydrogen does have a potential Um, really it's about uh decarbonizing right decarbonizing transportation and and That's where lupona stands is the tie between renewable energy And reducing emissions and making it cleaner and then reducing our impact Um, so yes, uh electrification has a large role to play in that Another way to be more efficient is um, you know, overall reduction in vehicle miles travel Reduction is energy efficiency for transportation And you know, so people can make those conversions or do different things Um, and still participate in society You know, those are the things that we we support and that's a vision for the future too um, but You know, again when you look at it, whether it's an economic look or or from a, you know, environment standpoint We are spending money out of the state out of the country Uh for for fuel and we can reinvest that locally and keep that money here And there's a lot that can flourish as a result. So so, you know, love to see that kind of play out over time Yeah, and it gets more important as a geo Geopolitical events take place that may affect the availability and the cost and the delivery of fuel She was so I have a big question for you Melissa. I saved it till the end Of course he is But I wanted to say, you know, when you said I'm fine with mandating it I say, uh, I think as an organization how to really struggles The EPA has certain mandates for EVs on a national level We're very concerned that they're not really going to be able to be met And what are the consequences and costs going to be when you mandate things before The the market would would get you there. But let's hear your question, Jay Okay, uh automobile dealers. It's a tremendous industry very important of Hawaii Um, we we know who they are. They represent the big car car manufacturers and so forth But they're they're in a dynamic condition You can buy a car including a new bar or used bar on the web And it'll be delivered to your house By passing the dealers And you know, the dealers that would have to change their infrastructure Change their way of repairing like those kids in the clip When you know, we have more automobiles and electric vehicles And so there must be attention if you will In the automobile dealers community about whether they require make the investment in that infrastructure Whether they want to change their marketing Change their maintenance change their Their skill their skill set in dealing with electric cars. Tell me about that. Is there tension? Yeah, I really don't think there is such a difference of opinion I think dealers absolutely play a pivotal and vital role in the state's energy future They are the link between the manufacturer and the customer And this idea that people can just purchase the vehicle directly. I don't think that is The way that we see Automobile purchases going in the future. I think that dealers are reorienting themselves to electric vehicle sales as well as filling the market needs of the consumer today So I think dealers remain a vital and important part of this industry and the sector And I'm excited about working with the automobile dealers to make sure that Hawaii is served now and in the future Yeah, tell me that was a good question though. It's a great question. I love it Give me a chance to tell you what I'm really thinking Well, how do you see how do you see the industry changing going forward? I mean the technology is changing You know consumer tastes are changing and the world is changing Good educated dealers and who are responsive to consumer needs who are able to provide the best choices for Hawaii consumers So regardless of what the products and services are Dethers play an important role in ensuring the automotive future of of hawaii residents I agree because it's still a complicated piece of machinery And you still don't have to talk to somebody about making sure it runs That's very important Okay, uh, we're gonna do we're gonna do final summary Words of wisdom now michael You are first what message you want to leave with our viewership. What do you want? What do you want to take away from this discussion ready go? um We are still in the early phases of a transition of our the way we move around And we need to keep the pedal to the metal keep working on this transition both in policy but also in finance and infrastructure and markets and really thinking through how to how to bring This transition this change about in a meaningful way that is inclusive of everybody Along the way and and doesn't do it in a way that people are reluctant but actually excited to do so And you know, I think the opportunity to do so is there as it's a it's a matter of how we go about it But there's a tremendous Tremendous shift of foot and and I'm excited for it Yeah, and it's important. It's central, isn't it? So we titled this show what's down the road for electric vehicles. What's down the road for your Your partnership your Your your Your arrangement where you're kind of plated with uh with hana Um, well, we you know, we've worked with hana in the past and policy and also um in the electric vehicle front We are excited that melissa's on board and look forward to working with hana in the future um You know, obviously hana has multiple different uh priorities and different things in our little slice of it is electric vehicles And so there are opportunities to partner and share an education and outreach and help uh, you know reach out to the community and educate them about options for vehicles and mobility And charging and how that all comes together because it is slightly different than what you know People are used to when they buy a gasoline car. And so there is an element there of just uh Deeper engagement and a lot more kind of conversations that that need to happen. So Looking for opportunities to partner with with hana and melissa going forward and excited for for that opportunity Yeah, okay, and for me by the way, I was making notes While those kids were turning the wrenches and I may apply for one of those jobs you would talk never mind um melissa Your final words talk about some policies today, but it all comes back to people Michael reminded me that his wife and I went to law school together. You are my neighbor jay You know, it could not be more of a small island no matter what island you live on and that's really the role I think that dealers Recognize and identify with is working with our community. And so that's how we're going to solve our energy needs You know for today in the future. So thanks for having us and just just a word before we go is that Talk about policy. What policies do you and do you uh adopt support? What what's what's your priorities for policy? Because you know, it's it's melissa pavlichek But actually your middle name is p for policy so Why don't you tell us what policies are important in the priorities as far as hana is concerned You know, this is the second year of the legislative biennium and we're really looking forward to um supporting I like I said some workforce development initiatives and ensuring that our hawaii kids stay here and have good paying jobs We're monitoring some of the developments on the road usage charge and want to be a key policy partner with the state department of transportation in implementing that So we're not actively seeking any bills currently to um work harder on bringing electric vehicles to hawaii But that is definitely something that we're looking at for the future and building our relationships with policy leaders So we can have those conversations going forward I certainly want to circle back with you guys, you know, this is a live Important priority for hawaii and it will determine in substantial part the future of our state and our society Thank you so much michael cullo and melissa policy avlichek Thank you all roads lead back to think tech all roads lead back to hana Thanks very much you guys