 That's probably true now, but I think correct. It was correct. It was blue when I started it for sure I know your house more than you do. Hello everyone and welcome back to you for the minions the weekly show We talk about predecessor over prime and a theory. Oh, I'm your host the mangoes joining me as always is my friend and co-host jelly Hey, darling, I mean, I think mangoes just Put a prime case up for himself to sing his own songs from now on. Oh, no, you still got a sing that song I wrote I'm a fantastic mangoes. I just got a new kitten and I can't wait to play with her and You know be a new kitten owner. So yeah, but with us as well is the Viking Jedi welcome Viking. What's up? Sorry, God Let me do this one more time Our friend and co-host Viking Yeah, there you go Okay, I like that. I like the singing part that that's pretty fun. No, I'm doing super good It's it feels weird doing it tonight than instead of yesterday But you know, we're here, you know, somebody had to go out of town, you know and go do other stuff and not be here Yeah, you Yeah, both of you motherfucker. Oh You also canceled yesterday, so don't even be thrown a shade of jelly. Yeah, but he canceled first got him And I said by the way, yeah, I'm not gonna be there either. No, but we knew you were going out of town You sent it first and then I sent it afterwards, so I'm the only dependable and let's move on to predecessor, so Oh So predecessor What we're waiting for right now there hasn't been a lot of news out of what wait for is Revenant Revenant is supposedly going to be added this week. A lot of people are thinking Wednesday. This is just speculation. They haven't Did they say it was going to be this week or didn't know this is this week is just a month from the last patch Yeah, okay. I believe countless came out on the 18th of December So the 18th of January is Wednesday, so people are assuming that'll be the same I like taboo's idea. You should have just RPed as both me I can do it. I can do it. I think you could actually I think we have enough mannerisms that you could bounce it off of But the key is getting your own mannerisms, right? Because are you observing enough of yourself? That would be the key I don't know if I could really do either of you because the thought of sucking a dick just weirds me out man This would just always be Things and doesn't know names so That's his mannerism is he just needs to randomly yell and forget the names of things. All right, so let's talk about Revenant here Excited so a lot of people are excited for Revenant. I'm personally pretty excited for him Do you think he's gonna change predecessor up a whole hell of a lot though or is he's gonna be I think that'll be dependent on his Yeah, that's what I'm what that's that's what I was thinking jelly honestly I hope his E is a completely different ability his E even Paragon in overprime has just felt like one of those abilities that I Just don't care about it's a pain in the ass And like it interrupt interrupts the rest of his kit Yeah, I throw my E and then I basic attack, but it's a lock-on ability So why not just make it a basic attack modifier if that's what it's gonna be Right because then I still have to land my basics within the time that it's on there So it's not gonna make any difference. It's just this added randomness of like Well, we didn't want to make it just a basic attack modifier But so we're gonna make it apply on an enemy and then it's a basic attack Right like this is it's the same thing with extra steps So I would love to see his E be changed to something else. I want to see him more skill shot vote Yes Yes, 100% and his passive is probably gonna be his Crit or some equivalent there of of his right click and that's gonna be intermix with his passive But yeah, his E is the biggest thing I want to see changed. There's nothing like his Q There's nothing like obliterate in predecessor right now. So that'll be a great ability to have in there His ultimate taking you to the shadow realm that has to be in there I think that's the only ability that has to be His foreshot foreshot mechanic though that those are the two things that make revenant revenant I'm okay without the four shots, but I think his ultimate has to be there. I Would okay now that I hate the foreshot by the way, I'm not saying that I'm like you know All your evident means he hates foreshot get out. Yeah that common Viking take there. No, I don't I don't hate it I just I'm okay if they innovate it and do something different to make it feel different and more modern Because I think we could have made some of those same arguments for some of the other changes that they made like you know with some of the Decker stuff, but like them moving her ultimate off of you to a basic ability and Making a whole new ultimate to me. I think that that can be Why are you laughing so hard? Can you imagine if they took shadow realm and put it on a basic ability? 10 seconds you're like Just canceling everything out. I thought you're laughing at J-tab saying that my mom takes more than four shots Thanks J-tab appreciate you dude Anyway, I could I could see them Doing something else with the kit and nose regards. Um, I do agree that he is probably the most boring of the abilities It kind of only makes sense in overprime in a sense that it kind of gives you some tank busting because it does percentage health damage But you don't really I don't think you feel it enough or to be a fun clickable ability So I do hope that predecessor does something to make them Feel more exciting But even if they keep the kit just as is right as we know it and fairly similar Maybe some numbers and do something with his passive that they like to do. I think he's going to shake up the meta Dramatically not only because I think he can theoretically you played in off lane because his ultimate gives him some sense of safety In gank situations, you know 2v1 type situations I think just the way that his whole kit plays in the duo lane as well is really going to Force teams to have to think about the game in a whole different way like, you know an ulting junglers You know if you do come in for a gank, okay Well, you're four levels below me. You need those other two guys I can take you into the shadow realm and get all of you. It's everything that we know about Revenant So I think he's going to ultimately change the way that people play the game Just the idea of him being in the game and possibly picked is going to make people like hesitate I think of what champions they might lock in Because of the threat of him. I can't wait for all the toxicity to show up on Revenant He on his release purely because he's gonna ult somebody a hundred to zero them and then they're gonna type Why didn't you help me bro? He wanted me to do like I Still there and waited for your little shadow to come back. I've never did Think what's what's more likely is he's gonna he's gonna ult somebody that's already dead the rights Miss the kill and then you're gonna be pissed off that he took your ah Yeah, I mean, that's what happens in overprime. That's what happened in Paragon over and over again That's a that's a Revenant hallmark right there Big truce Make a obliterate prioritize heroes over minions. I like that actually I Do I like that like as a Revenant player I would love that because then it just makes obliterate what much easier to land But I think part of the skill expression of obliterate is the fact that it just Randomly selects targets if for however many targets are there compared to how many bullets there are Right, so it makes you prioritize using obliterate when there's fewer targets around so then all of those shots land directly on the person you're trying to kill and It also creates a go button for Revenant if you're both standing in your minion waves and he's got a obliterate ready to go He wants to clear those minions out and obliterate and clear those minions out and obliterate So then he's got a clear-cut engage mechanic But the enemy also has a clear-cut Disengage mechanic if they know I've only got one minion left and he hasn't used obliterate in a while This is my moment. I need to back out for a few seconds and wait Otherwise, I'm just gonna take full obliterate damage like to me the skill expression of the ability is Worth the lack of prioritization of heroes I'd rather see higher damage and more skill expression rather than less skill expression and lower damage Because if you make it prioritize heroes, it's gonna have to be lower damage overall Otherwise, it's just too strong I think I would be more in line with like prioritizing if like you've landed something else like so let's say They keep it the EU or some kind of version of E that you throw E then if you Q that it will prioritize But and you know, maybe you can adjust the number still obviously for the same reason that jelly described But I don't think I would like it just Passively that it does it prioritizes champions. I think that that it does remove some of the skill expression I think it also remove some of the outplay ability when rev basically In my opinion is one of the most like I pick when I want to do stuff to you You don't always get to pick when you get to do stuff to me, especially post six And so I think that that's Yeah, you need to have like when you have these like, you know Crazy scaling and crazy like skill expressive You also have to have on the opposite side the ability to outplay them or you know Be able to use their kit against them to an extent And so I think having the obliterate go to random targets Especially in team fights and stuff like that to you like, you know There's nothing worse than being in a team fight and there's minions around and you hit obliterate And it doesn't go to any of the guys here, but yeah, but you know, hey Don't take a team fight and what the minion waves around I guess, you know, be better I don't I mean that that was always the way with Revenant. Yeah It was wait until you can have somebody isolated And I kind I kind of wonder if that's going to have an effect on the way that predecessors played right now because right now Everything in a team fight Is sort of aoe based and you want to be spread out somewhat You don't want to be close to anybody Because like chimera's ultimate is is uh is um aoe Gideon's ultimate is very strong. The phase ultimate is super strong There's a lot of aoe stuff that makes you want to separate But if his q is really strong and as a support you're going to stick close to your ADC so you can split that q damage a little bit Um, I don't know if it'll have that much of an effect on how on how the game is played, but it might Depends on how strong his q is Yeah, I would love I'd be perfectly okay if you make his e a skill shot And then if his e lands on a hero or whoever his e lands on obliterate prioritizes that target I think that is a good way to make his e more interesting one that it's a skill shot and not just a lock-on automatic And it also is a follow-up ability. Uh, I use this example from ethereal But noxus noxus is root and then her r which is her lightbound portal Right sends the little light shards out at people If you land your root first the lightbound shards are guaranteed to hit targets Or hit multiple targets whereas if you don't land the root it only hits one target Like it's that follow-up comboing of abilities. I think is a cool idea It could make his e more interesting by association of his q I agree. I mean, and I think uh, it's big doinks in hand What if bolts mark enemies that he wants to obliterate to or to shoot like as part of their passive that they might come I think that's fine. Like if you land like I don't know all marks an enemy for three seconds. And then yeah, something like that. I think would be cool Yeah, I think that there's ways to do it to where it's not going to be as oppressive But still have that skill expression. Um, but Yeah, I'll be really really excited if they go Completely off the rails and do something super random that we're not expecting I I think I'll be stoked about that I mean, I'm stoked for him to come in the game even if he is just as is But if they come up with some really cool Unique ways of of having him still keep his identity, right and and make him still feel like Revenant But bring him into 2023 and make him completely unique and feel almost like a fully realized, uh, You know their own ip almost I think that would be a lot more interesting and would keep people more interested because you're not going to just have like the Old heads Come into paragon that are coming from paragon and understand Revenant's kit and understand the nuances of him And be able to just immediately shit on new players who are wanting to explore, you know carry Having them have to somewhat learn a little bit of the kit in a new way would be super super fun and interesting And I think it would make the champion more interesting and a way more fun launch In my opinion if they could come up with a way to explain why his revolver Is a revolver but has four barrels, but only shoots four shots Why do you need four barrels if you have a revolving cylinder and it only shoots four shots man goose gosh It's no the barrels don't I don't get it um, I think If I had to tin foil hat theory this as I do very often I doubt the kit has changed very much One because I think Revenant fans would be upset If the kit changed too far and two because I think they would have shown us more of the kits Before his release if it was drastically different Like they did with decker. Yeah I doubt they suddenly like they launch him and say by the way his entire kit's different and like Surprise everybody with that. Maybe they do. I mean, I would say I'm hopeful that they do But I doubt it based on previous iterations of what how they've done releases And just I think the community in general could go 50 50 on that and it's just because you don't have to take Um, rather than releasing it early letting them simmer down and then he comes out Yeah, I don't know I was expecting to see a lot more about him By now We did they did they did like to make a post and stuff. It's not like they're Resting on their laurels and not doing anything but just I expected to see a little bit more. I'm not I'm not bitching about it Also, we say this all now knowing that they're going to post it literally two hours. Yeah, I know right right Yeah, it'll come out in the morning or something like that. Yeah, uh, they're watching this going great idea Yeah, I'm glad we didn't do this last night because the overprime in the middle of the night released that Roadmap videos so fucking though what they went over. Yeah, yeah kind of very much. Yeah So are you guys uh equally for me like I feel like he could be an off-laner Do you think that that still fits the the pred idea because so far None of that carries really feel like they could go off-lane Conceptually, yes in pred's off-lane. Hell no. Oh interesting It rocks would fucking tear his ass apart every single time. Yeah, even post or post six. You think he's just hard Yeah, they he he They are not trapped in there with that exactly You're trapped in here with me Yeah, rev it doesn't want to all to grucks Is that because of uh, how you guys feel like because there's no real items for a carry to be able to stand In a 1v1 against the he doesn't have an escape That yep, that just just appear escape thing is what did they have gap clubs and ccs? Okay In the game you don't think his damage can out Like, you know what I mean with the poke and no, it won't be enough Especially not with foreshot passive If he has the foreshot mechanic he's so he loses out early game on so much dps having to reload That they literally just wait for him to reload and go off Prating with him and they he loses that trade every single time with no escape They can engage after he reloads off the fourth minion or fourth shot and then He's just screwed if bruisers are just stronger than adc's early game as they should be and He would just never get a chance to farm because of severog crunch grucks steel any common solo laner in in in predecessor would just To rev it up and spit him out even there's an amount that severog is the already the example for that granted He's not ranged But severog is a such a scaling hero and has such a weak early game That he gets so bullied by grucks and crunch in the off lane that he struggles to get to that point in the late game He can write a good severog still will with the stacking mechanic But he already struggles and that's someone with that does have an escape Whereas revenant doesn't even have that. Yes. He has the range But the dashes and the pull from grucks and crunch will close that range instantaneously. Yeah Hmm. Yeah, I don't think he's going to shake the game up in that way I think he'll just shake the game up as far as adc's go. Uh, he's he's a far more interesting adc I think then then most of them drongo is actually pretty interesting himself But uh, as a soul reaper often says adc's are just fucking general in my It's all about just basic attacking the end And I don't remember this so you guys will have to tell me but in uh, paragon days, right? We know op has uh, his right click resets his four shots. Was that the same in paragon? No, it wasn't it wasn't a right click or whatever. It was nothing. Yeah. Yeah, his right click reloaded it His cue did not Okay, okay. That's what I thought you were talking about your sound stuff just came off the wall jelly It did You got fucking ghosts It's the cat Yeah Anyway, um You guys got anything more for pred or do you guys want to be able to uh overrun? Uh, I think that's all for pred. I'm curious to see what they do with revenant. I don't think it'll change very much But pretty much just our revenant waiting room right now Yeah, I mean they didn't even release like that. They're gonna have a skin for them on release or anything like that It's a bit boring Um, I mean that's probably I think one of the things and I don't really want to shit on them too much But I do it does bother me that they're coming out Well, we lost jelly Uh, it doesn't bother me that we that they're coming out with champions now I think twice without skins attached to them like something to get you more hyped about Something that you want to spend in the shop because they don't have a shop, right? But like it's just I don't know. It's it's a bit disappointing That those things aren't part of a game when because you want to have that included hype. I think but maybe weird Oh, I think I think we'll be fine with it anyway You think that the true diehards won't care, right? Yeah. Yeah Uh, pred fans are pred fans and they're always gonna be fans no matter what happens It doesn't really matter if he doesn't have a skin or anything They'll just um, they'll excuse omeda for not having features while blaming overprime for Having bugs whereas the overprime fans will excuse all the bugs at overprime But you know give omeda hell for not having features in their game Uh, same old shit will always happen Yeah, 100% anyway speaking of overprime. Let's uh, let's move on to the OP segment here So for overprime, they released a video in conjunction with the information that we kind of already got from them as far as their roadmap and everything The video was a bit more detailed though. It showed us the skins a little bit better Adele looks fucking fine as fuck and um Yeah, these skins look fucking god damned amazing. Um, they really do And then they they kind of went into detail a little a little bit more as to how they're Getting their data and analyzing it to make the changes that they need to be making Um, they used a weird word for it, but it was basically big data Yeah, big big data. That was the other thing that was able off. Yeah, but but then like Was it churning or something like that for the turnover? They used some kind of weird word for that player churn or something like that player churn. Yeah The turnover but uh, yeah, they were talking about you know Yeah, most of the people that that let that tried the game and left Did so within the very first match so they're trying to find ways around that which um I think I said that in a video a long time ago Was that they need a versus a i mode to ease new players into the game before they start Going up against uh old paragon players that know what the fuck they're doing when they I think that'll be very helpful. Yeah, or people just been played in the tests, right and had those those to back them up like, you know It I I agree. I mean, it's good to see them acknowledge it You know, obviously, uh, and I do agree that like they like went into a little bit more details They had like bullet points kind of going in a little bit more about what each one was and I mean, I think I got most hyped about uh, the skins. I think they looked just so good. Um, but uh, you know, obviously They talked about consoles, uh, which I think is is something that is obviously always brought up and is always, you know, being asked about So they know that it's a main focus both these studios want to get on the console as soon as they can But they kind of like and I don't know how you guys took it But they mentioned consoles as one of their main system updates But then they also mentioned it again as a part of the release Like going into full release. So I'm like, okay, so wait, are they are they committing to Just waiting till full release whatever that is and whatever time frame that is to get to console Which makes sense, by the way, I've always preached that that it's so freaking hard to get on the console If you're in beta or in early access because those stores don't want your games on there They they even like AAA studios that do the game previews and do all that stuff They struggle to get on to these stores. They want fully released games on the stores and um, So I it was interesting. Yeah, see we got I think we just got it online where it says official launch console is on there So it was a little bit of like a weird thing because then I think they mentioned that they want to get all the major things On systems updated too before going to full. So it's a little convoluted I was I was really confused on that part and I don't know if it was translation Or they just didn't realize that they had brought it up in three different areas of their video But I know the console kids are probably going to be all over twitter and probably in the comments and all over Discords and all over reddit talking about console when and all that stuff We don't know Yeah, that's what that's the point I was going to bring up It was very confusing the console news because they kind of bounced around with it because yeah They said there's like their major like the first main thing that they want to do but it was also You know full release and then Xboxes confirm now that was kind of a bit of a like we we knew that ranger said that they wanted to put it on xbox It's confirmed now. So it's going to be playstation xbox and steam deck I thought that was funny that they included the steam deck in there But I mean that's good. I guess I don't know too many people who own a steam deck, but No generations, by the way the console thing was More of a or the console on release thing was more of a by release You will have console than it was a we will release console on or we will have console on full release Um because of that previous one that we've already talked about of like console being their first main update To me waiting to have that until full release along with all of those other systems is a lot to drop it once and get me back on um but I I would to me again, I took that as We are working on console and it will be released prior to full release Life art official that brings up another good point I was I was like kind of looking through to see if I could find this Because they always put little fucking secrets at easter eggs and all their goddamn videos I was kind of looking see if I could find anything, but I'm not as smart as some of the people that have been fun to some of the um I definitely need to take a A few more closer looks at that video if I could see any kind of little weird There's the churned players. They're churning out players like butter Yeah churned players that's a new one with that that clever like q1 2021 q2 and then like did the steam logo with Yeah, they have constantly been doing like that for I love it a while now, but yeah, um Yeah, so the the hero release schedule seems to be pretty locked in um I I'm hoping we get wukong this week and um Just to see how he plays out Okay, I want wukong this week and we talked about this earlier right and I I agree mangosphere assessment was That if they do a patch on the 21st, which is when the snow map is going away That theoretically wukong is going to drop at the same time. Yeah, I just want a patch to get rid of the snow map at this point I made the point to you guys earlier. We've had the snow map longer than we've had the normal map in the game It's true. That's even if even if I include I did the math earlier even if I include the 11 day test prior to release We had the snow map for longer than we've had the regular map Like, okay, okay guys. Come on. Jesus like Please I I think it was great. I loved the snow map for like two weeks I'm ready to get rid of it now So we're saying the ranger confirmed that uh the patch was I was going to say the same thing. I think I saw I was going to say I think I saw one of the guys talk about that it was going to be confirmed that it was confirmed this week So soul reaper coming in clutch and bringing that up. But yeah I would be I think it would be uh, it would be devastating Uh, if not only did we not get that but then like they like oh, we had some issues snow map has to stay for until another patch or something I think people might riot and it's so unfortunate too because like I think the idea the snow map was so cool It just lasted too long Like it was fine It was like I think I would have been happy before to last like the week before Christmas or the holiday season and then the week after so like a two week time Snow map is there. We enjoy it. I still agreed with everybody who said that it should never have been in comp And it should have only been in quick play But you know, but at this point I've gotten so used to the map Uh, that I don't even shift to go well. I think it'll be weird And okay, I also wouldn't care if it was in the game for this long if I could turn it off Yeah, I could be like, you know what I've had enough of the snow map and gone like That'd be fine too. It's just so boring and same samey I like the sound still I think the sound is probably something I still occasionally like oh, it sounds so cool And I'm running around that it's like crunching like you're actually on snow and that's immersive and it's fun But I think where I hate it the most is in laning phase Like I know they did an update to be able to make the visuals a little bit better to be able to recognize When things are going on but sometimes in teamfights It's it's too chaotic and the snow 100 gets in the way of some of the stuff that's happening, especially teammates like if someone on your team does like some kind of aoe ability or a healing or something like that It gets lost as it is in teamfights Now you're having this extra clutter with the the snow it just Yeah, and some champions full on just like disappear They just blend in so well. It's kind of stupid. Raith has that fucking arctic camo one Yeah, this is true, but now it'll be it'll be an exciting patch I can't wait to see what wukong's gonna be like. I can't wait to main him And really just you know decimate in the off lane with him Yeah, jelly. What do you have to say about uh, no eggy comes out then I'm gonna main eggy, you know I'm not gonna I'm not gonna main Oh, fuck that. We all know that viking's not actually gonna decimate anyone in the off lane. So it's fine. I'm not worried I'll have you know. I am the highest ranked person in this call right now. Okay. I hit gold three So suck it All right, then I'll play against the diamond mid later the uh Absolutely creep absolutely crushed him Um I really don't think that that's been viking guaranteed the ranks matter a whole hell of a lot. Um I mean they may have been learning the role, but anyway Yeah, uh, so yeah, not a lot of new data here, but pretty cool shit nonetheless I know oh api stuff. I was excited about them mentioning more uh, api and what they are going to release about api I thought that and then obviously they have plans for more api, but I think the one that they've mentioned the first is the Post battle information for api I don't know what people will do with that other than maybe having just being able to track yourself on a third party website Rather than just in client. Um, but I thought that was kind of cool And I'm sure people will be able to pool all that data to be able to Form some kind of stuff with it, but I don't really know what yet. I'm not that smart But I do think it's kind of cool find out who in over prime has the highest kda and shit like that Yeah, stuff like that. I'm sure actually they probably will but it'll I mean at least it's nice because I know that's something that We've talked about and I know a lot of the the community is asking for more api engagement to that way they can start You know, especially if they start going down the path that we're all really excited about which is making builds And being able to save your builds and put them into the game and do all that stuff because it's huge You know being able to do all that stuff So if you have access to the api to be able to do item builders and all that stuff I think it'll be really fun. It'll make those guys who put those content creation videos together um I think a lot easier to access and uh, it only helps the game in my opinion I don't think it makes it worse other than maybe cookie cutter builds Starting to float around too much like ad carries or still doing crit builds and not looking at who they're laning against or playing against and Yeah anyway That's so annoying. I mean that's already people just using the recommended. You know what I mean? um Yeah, a lot a lot of cool stuff It seemed it seemed to me too that that they were alluding to a little more skill based matchmaking That would just win rate based matchmaking. Mm-hmm Be good They were talking to get once again about how they're going to defeat hacks third party software Coming down really hard on that which is good but um, yeah again Not a lot of new information here, but uh, a bit of clarification Some instances they still like that spare skin. They're like high ranked And tell you what a competitive like what is high ranked Gold isn't bad is a diamond is a master. What the hell is it? You know wonder if they're they have a percentage in mind that they're going to say top 10 of players for instance, maybe and they're waiting for that rank to settle So they can then just say like okay. Yeah, we want top 10 percent and that's actually just a little above Plat 2 So we're going to just do it all of platinum right and that they're waiting to get find out what that percentage is so they can Push that to the right place to still make it worthwhile And the fact that they don't have a 3d modeled sparrow skin It's just all it's all been concept art. That makes me think that they haven't even Are working well the price are working on out, but It's going to be a thing that's going to come out in the You're going to have some time to rank up if you're looking to rank. Oh, yeah What i'm hoping it is not is what their current leaderboard is which is like a top 500 in your region gets the skin or something along those lines um, because I think that that's that would be Unfortunate for people because the guys at the top are always going to be pushing other people out You know what I mean like so every time those guys are climbing up and pushing more people down and then it's going to make that number Harder and harder to obtain as they you know what I mean So I'm hoping that they come out with just a rank straightforward like hey You hit plat and above or whatever it's going to be. I mean now that I'm gold. I'm hoping it's gold But if it's higher up than that, uh, you know, then that would be to mean more ideal than just saying like the top 500 players Get it. Um, it was cool that they got icons before I think the guys who hit the top 100 for example were like hey, you deserve an icon Show that off to your friends and stuff like that But like I wish those icons showed up by the way still somehow in game Like I wish it was an emote that people could throw up or something like that showing like hey, dude I was top 100. Um, but anyway, that's that's a whole another thing to go down But that's what I'm I'm hoping it's not a leaderboard Position that you have to obtain because I think that that's really really difficult for people to set as like a goal milestone Um, but I could see them doing that for ease like you should be like, okay, if you hit top 500 You get a skin I don't know. Well, I guess we'll probably find out as we come closer to the end of the season Yeah, right And I think they're doing the same thing that pred is doing q1 is their End of season and then they're doing a reset. I think that was the the guests based off of everything that people have seen But we don't know for Right 100 do not know for sure, but yeah, um, I don't know I'm ready to move on to Oh You guys ready to move on to etharol? Let's do it move to etharol. All right. Let me uh I've I've heard that uh, I've heard that ethanol has been putting out a shit ton of tick talks Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you about jelly. What's up? What's up with uh There you'll shit now tick talk talks in shorts like every day Hooping them out pooping them out Looping them out. What all of that? Is there any reason for it? I mean they're leading up to something Is it leading up to something? It's not like shorts and tick talks everybody. Okay. I'm gonna stop posting them. It's man goose's fault The main goose doesn't like any information to go out to the community. He hates communities Including his own so all of you come to my channel and it's fine We'll figure it out big true so, um Other than that, we've got this uh updated map Which you gave me the uh the gif for which we're looking at right now So you can rotate through just to maximize whichever lane you're in and um Take that gif down out because Get a little wonky there. Let's I think it's a picture I think it's freezing up the stream. Maybe it's just me though Um, yeah, if you just put up the picture that's I can explain the concept now that people have seen the functionality of it Oh wow or I saved it something weird Didn't even save the picture. Yep. I can't pull it right now because I would have to get at the discord to pull it up uh-oh Well, you can see it on on socials guys you can see it on socials goodness gracious Just pause the gif at some point and then This will go up on all the social medias tomorrow morning Um But it's the mini map has changed so in our previous test The mini map was just a single lane That's the lane you could see and you could rotate between fire void and ice But it was only ever the one lane that you could see so if you wanted to do that it was inconvenient at best To switch lanes because then you're giving up being able to see your own lane the lane you're in and anything like that um The benefit of this one is now you have all three lanes on there And it then enlarges the lane you're looking at or the one you're you're either on or the one you decide you're trying to look at This lets you Get a bigger picture of what's going on right at a glance you can see towers minions all that objectives all that kind of stuff Right, but then you also can get a bigger view of your lane another lane to get a more a more Uh enlarged view for lack of a better way to put it Of what's going on in that lane so you can get a better understanding of maybe what rotations to make where to go Who's where etc etc um You might need to do another tldr of that exact explanation because I think it was Messing out for people line hearts. It's fixed. It does look better on my screen But I just see here. I don't want people to miss it So if you want to just do kind of a shortened version of it if in case people did Uh mini map grow mini map shrink A blood under So yeah This is again, so you have the ability to see more of more things at once on your mini map Yeah, and then there are other changes that are coming as well That'll help you gain more information like that a little easier as well sick More information is always key. I think yeah I'm still wondering jelly though. Is this leading up to something? Are you going to give us an answer everything leading up to something? Oh now we're getting philosophical play test win Play test win is I think I think that while we're getting all these shorts Huh, I don't say it's leading like there's a definitive like at the end of 20 shorts There's going to be a big announcement Yeah Right, but the the shorts are more intentional a Broadening of horizons for a theory, right? YouTube shorts and tiktok are the next giant social media medium I say the next they already are They're only increasing in the potential that they have So we wanted to make sure and take advantage of that potential while it's available And kind of get into that rhythm and cadence of releasing information on those platforms In addition to social media and discord posts and all that kind of stuff Leading up to the lead up of the play test. Yes It's a roadmap to the roadmap, right? Yeah uh Yeah, but play test win. That's the real yeah, trust me. I wish I could tell you I mean, I know It's fucking But yeah, no, it's like I said, it's more of a broadening of horizons than it's a leading up to something, right? It's like some of the information on there is information the community's known about for a while Right, the updated map community is known about right. It's Things that we're trying to kind of like I said get it out there get the word out there of ethereal one video that did Weirdly well that none of us expected internally was the lore video Actually kind of popped off. Oh really was this weird Everyone internally was like, yeah, it's a lore video. Okay. We'll put it out people like lore viking asked for lore a couple weeks ago Fine, whatever Right, and it popped off and was like the number one viewed video in the time frame. Oh nice. What's like Oh man, it may that that that makes my heart happy I'm a big I'm a lord guy because these are sick These are the splashdarts we have that man goose has been storing for five million years. Yeah Okay, I don't think I've seen some of these though. I would I'm so curious which of these man goose actually has What are you talking about? Well, I don't know. There's angel in the block for all of you that are in the discord. That's what we call them angel with a Glock Okay Arma brought up a good point. Uh become a tester and then you can play test Hey, there you go a current opening for for testers and uh, if so, how would they uh be able to apply So testing is na only so I'll get that out off the off the top. I'll look at frost. Um Testing is na only so unfortunately our eu friends or asian friends We we can't have you guys in testing at the moment. It's a legal issue, right? We have everybody sign nda's when they get into testing So from that perspective, we're we're us based so we need us based testers for legal implications But there is a place on the website. What I'll do is I'll post a link Here that you guys can go grab that we can you can fill out and then there's a rotating positions of testers and all that kind of stuff nice and uh As somebody who used to be a tester you guys looking for any, um Like specific skill sets or are you just looking for people who can be there be on time stick around for a little while? Give meaningful feedback Don't have to have previous testing experience or the opposite of that You're looking for some high-quality testers that have been in this before or make sure the two some along those lines I mean, I won't speak exactly to that because I I mean armors in the chat arm is our testing lead So I'll let him kind of more specifically answer that but short answer is yes Yeah, there is there is no, uh, right or wrong answer Right if you think you can bring something to testing whether that be skill information I feel like that's a valuable trait to Have and to bring into something like ethereal which is going to need So much of that kind of stuff. I mean, I did okay. I was just a body more times than not So I think if I can make it than anyone else can the fucking sacrificial lamb tofumo is what you are when you're I can talk a little bit about this without breaking india, but like my first game in as as a brand new tester I was like, I don't know very much at all. I got just Pooped on like it was so bad. I hard lost like it was not even close Um, but it was fun. Uh, but yeah, I think you kind of expect that from any kind of a new game, you know Yeah, it was tough The testers they're good. They know what there's the link by the way. I just posted the link To the website for people to apply to be an internal tester right on Thank you for that or we're going to be hitting that up All right, uh, so you guys I also anyone watching this Later on I will post that in the comments as well so you can go there These images I've been running through um I'm a scrambled for after I didn't have that map image Those are all those are all myths that are going to be either already in or will be in ethereal So you saw somebody that That the major pp hard there, uh, there you go They're going to be in there. There's there's a lot of really great designs I I love the style that ethereal is gone with and I love the style of the map. I love The only thing I don't love about ethereal is um, how complicated it can be very first start I think that's going to be you got the main hurdle that you guys are going at Yep, absolutely, but we have ideas for that man goose I have ways to fix it Yeah, so if you aren't following our youtube subscribe to our youtube or On to our tiktok make sure you go follow those and then as you see posts give them a like give them a comment Even if it's just good posts That that's that's an algorithmic win Uh messed up perfect tells me to stop posting as well gene man goose and messed up perfect I get told to stop posting that they don't like community outreach. They don't like I Do messed up perfect even did it in a comment. He told me stop posting these jelly. My name All right, well, let's move on from ethereal Let's uh, move into some of the questions viking introduced. Um, the by the way My discord is now the ftm discord out. It's not my discord anymore It belongs to all three of us and uh viking has been making a few changes And he made a a specific section to uh ask questions for ft I wanted to get dig into some of those questions tonight Really really good one. I'll start off with um strife 88 Do you think there will be a quality performance mode choice when it comes to console like most games Will the game be optimized purely around performance? Also console win So I don't know much about console games. I haven't owned a console and for fucking ever so From my understanding it's usually what 68 they shoot for 60 fps or is it 30 for for new generation? Yeah, that's the the goal previous generations were capped at 30 Some games were able to go to 60 but for the most part they were capped at 30 But the quality performance mode thing that they're mentioning is a modern console thing That you'll see games god of war ragnarok. I know had it but even a whole bunch of others You can determine I I'm willing to run at 30 frames but have higher quality Or I'm wanting willing to have lower quality to run at 60 frames And so I imagine both of these games will probably being predecessor and overprime That have talked about console already will probably have some kind of quality to performance mode because Gamers want higher frame rates because you can do things react better on higher frame rates But they also like some people like quality over frame rates. So it's just going to be one of those choices players have to make And I am in that same line. I think if forced to choose If they can't make it a toggle It'll probably be optimized round performance. It would be dumb of them not to because it you know It just random frame drops Right, so I would say that they're going to preface or probably try to optimize round performance and then have You know the other options available if they can but again like jelly said that will be on new consoles We don't have any idea whether these are going to come to you know, the the ps4 or you know, the 360 or whatever. So um Oh, we do know that over prime will go to ps4 Well, we know they got the the package for but we know that they're for sure going to just come into it Or why would they get a ps4 dev kit if they're not going to dev for the ps those things cost like two grand I don't know I mean, I assume that's part of the the the console um coding The whole part of you know developing for console is optimizing for console. I assume that they'll all be Optimized for one over the count. That's for both prime and uh, therial jelly could probably tell us exactly Uh, but yeah, I I also I want to clarify They're right 60 frames at 4k for the new gen console seems to be the the threshold a lot of them are shooting for Lower resolutions. You can get higher than that for sure And whether they support that frame rate will be up to the each individual game Correct. Yeah, because some will yeah because some will support higher your tv might not support it, but the game supports it so tvd But again, they'll probably optimize around performance at a base level and then And then I have other options based off of those things especially for the new consoles Um, let's move on to the next question from i'm stranger. What are pred and over primes top three strengths and top three? Um, super good question. Let's let's go We'll each name one that of all three of us name in three. Let's let's each name one. Okay Uh, I like but anybody like to go first With a strength for a pred and a strength for over I can go first if you want me to you if you already have a month on top of your head Yeah, I want to go for it. I mean, I think the strength for pred is obviously optimization. Um, it's I mean even aside from you know, you got smooth graphics smooth gameplay blah blah blah the optimization in pred is fucking fantastic. Um, never tried to stream The games streaming pred assessor is so much easier than streaming over prime You're gonna run into all kinds of weird pickups with over prime You've got to fuck with your settings and stuff pred assessor is just plug and play and go because it's just so well optimized So I think um I think that's one of the top strengths for pred assessor. Uh, one of the top strengths for over prime Is just a variety. Um, you got so many choices for All kinds of stuff. Uh, you I mean is it not just the features that they that they've included in early access But just the the amount of heroes that they have the amount of heroes want to have um And even variety within each hero Like being able to figure it like I've talked about this so many times already, but I'm going to talk about it again like grucks You can just go in with grucks and play grucks. So like he's just normal old grucks and fashion grab and And dash and double chopping all that shit or you can get all crazy with it Do some jumping 360 spins and slam down when people with your smash and grab out of a leap and then You can Jump off certain areas and then and dash into other areas Like there's a lot of variety variety with it with each hero to be had so I think that's kind of cool Uh, with that I actually it was so I was sure I was recording, but I wasn't I had a enemy grucks come through The small portal with his smash and grab action already going through So he came through the portal and pulled people as he came into the prime pit. It's amazing surprise the shit out of everybody and we were like So freaking cool. Uh, I don't know if it's like it was and it's intended I haven't tried to replicate it personally, uh, but I saw it happen Unless I was high or something. It was really really cool I'm pretty sure you could do it because I think you could do a lot of your abilities going through the portals as it is So wouldn't I know shabby could throw her wolves through the portal Will follow people straight through the kiln right, uh lari Yeah, uh right click also works if you right click before and before you land they travel through the portal Yep, you don't go across because you don't get high enough and you don't disappear, but you'll face plant into the prime spirit pit because Because the game just drags you behind So if you want to get to prime spirit really quickly that's a way to do it. Um, that's hilarious But I think those are great points being used. I guess I will go next In a positive for predecessor and over prime for predecessor I would say smoothness of gameplay And I don't mean that in an optimization way. I mean that in like I guess I should say consistency in gameplay When you do something in predecessor, it behaves the same way 99 of the time Right that you're doing something you press a button You expect that button to behave a certain way and it does behave that certain way Like yeah, 99 of the time there's an overprime that doesn't quite It yeah, I would say not bear like 60 of the time the button presses the work the way yeah Depends on the ability, right? There's consistency levels within each ability, right? But that's a I think that's a big win for predecessor uh for overprime There I mean there are a lot of good things about overprime, right? I think the One of the big benefits of overprime is That it feels like you can come back into the game more in overprime Oh, yeah, then comparatively to predecessor like the learning curve of it. No, I mean Yeah, coming from behind, but yeah In the game you have a lot of potential to come back into the game Sure, whether that be with and there's an amount that this is not the healthy way to come back into the game, right? But you can come back into the game You have you can steal a prime You can get a mini prime and use it to help push down a tower to open up the game You can have control over prime spirits. You can just be better at team fighting Right, like there are a lot of opportunities for you to re-enter the game and do something with your Game even from behind comparatively to the other game That kind of feeds into what I was talking about a variety as well Because like if you're in the mid lane and you're just hard countered Well, whatever lane you're in if you're hard countered by the opposition Like if you're trying to play fucking counters into phase It just does not work if the phase has two brain cells rubbing together so But the the option is there to just rotate to just rotate and try and get your xp and gold through kills Like a lot of people can get pissed off about that about over prime, but the option is there And you can't come back into the game that can't come back in the game that way But yeah, if you're playing counters, don't fucking push anywhere near even mid Like like farm under your tower and then rotate to get kills elsewhere because you are not going to fucking do And well and to be honest like you sacrificing a wave or two is like it's costing you Minimal gold and in over prime right and in most other games you're sacrificing You know minions is like super taboo. You do not do that Don't you know like the roam is probably not going to pay off enough times for it to You know be worth losing all those minions and over prime you're probably okay Like you it's not going to be the end of the world if you're roaming So yeah, if you're playing those like Burst or assassins or if you're hard countered don't stay in your lane, dude Go find somewhere else the rotations are fast in this game and easy And you can make something happen and get one of your teammates ahead and get yourself ahead through that Junglers too. That's the same thing like you don't have to just you know Always be in duo lane like get them ahead. Sure. I get it But like show up in the other lanes Even your presence is showing up and forcing somebody to back up a little bit gives that breathing Anyway, I'm gonna go down too much, but that's yeah any It's a very I'm very passionate about it Is it my turn? Did we do both for you jail? Okay. Um, so I'll start with uh with pred. I think actually My favorite thing about pred is the uh passives I I think that the passives make for interesting, uh balance and interesting game choice. Um I think that there's lots of opportunity for them to kind of continue over time tweaking those passives And really make them feel unique and and they don't have to stay static Which I think is really fun. The passives can take on a bigger picture have a smaller picture I like that some champions it feels like everything is about their passive and then other champions It's like the passive just kind of plays a small role in the overall of their kit Um, and and I I think that's that's a lot of fun It gives a lot to me it gives opportunity for innovation in in different ways other than button presses Um, so I think that's probably one of my favorite because the other two that you guys mentioned are obviously really strong cases for them um in over prime I think for me it's the the thing that keeps me coming back is that I have more fun consistently In over prime like I don't I don't think I mean there's definitely games where I'm tilted off my you know I I just have to quit I believe but I feel like there's Especially going from like ranked to quick play there's been so many times are like me and mangu's for example We were doing duo queue and we were just like not having a great time and ranked and we're like Do you want to just go to quick play and fuck around? Yeah Like and and having that like mind shift and mind change to kind of like take myself I still want to play the game. I just don't want to be sweaty anymore. I want to play the game I want to try a new champions. I want to try new builds like you played reaper for the first time Like or not reaper on my revenant. I saw reaper in Uh, anyway, you played revenant for the first time and I was like I immediately thought you were talking about pred revenant And I was like wait he got released. I didn't wasn't paying attention. I was like all tripped out Uh, I think that's really exciting right like that's what's cool about I think over prime is like going into quick play matches kind of trying new roles trying new champions Like I've I've never would have thought to try calari in a million years I played the shit out of calari now like I played her a lot of time I'm starting to feel like I can actually You know carry games on her a little bit more not like you know jelly knees levels But um, I feel confident that if I get put in jungle I can pick up a jungler and and do the the role well and um I would not feel that same confidence in predecessor like I do not think I could jump into pred's jungle or any other lane as easily because the the Requirements for understanding the champions and the matchups and stuff that is higher and and predecessor to an extent So I think that's those are my two positives Now let's do negatives. Um, I think for predecessor and this is just for me personally I think the solo queue experience and predecessor is fucking Uh, when you're solo queue like it it's Predecessor is extremely Yeah, it's fault fault. But yeah, it's uh, it's extremely team dependent. Um You can win the hell out of your lane, but if off lane loses their lane You can still just get fucking instant deleted by the crunch that won that Punch the one that lane Tried to take objectives like the whole team has to be on board if you're not in comms in discord or something The whole team's not going to be on board. It's it's the solo queue experience and predecessor is I think a little harder than over primes because um oddly enough without having ranked every game and predecessor feels a little more Important I guess like you feel like you're letting your down a little bit more. I think um I don't know that it's just it's just very very rough and Trying to come back in in predecessor after you're down a little bit is very difficult For over prime. I'm kind of calling it dovetail off of what jelly said about the good thing about Predecessor being consistency over primes weakness is inconsistency Um a great example of that is counters counters and predecessor if you shadow slip to somebody Bam, you're on them you hit them at the same angle every time it it works Over prime you shadow slip to somebody from like a ledge or something you might bounce off their head So when you throw your e you're throwing it off into the fucking space Or like you shadow slip You never know where the fuck you're going to go when you shadow slip with counters It's like what the fuck and there's just a lot of inconsistent abilities play aurora sometime if you want some inconsistency Sometimes you can you can whore frost midair and catch somebody Sometimes you can't uh her Sometimes her ice wall will go exactly where you want it to sometimes it just goes along the ground That's like I was definitely aiming up. Why the fuck that I just go across the ground like um Yeah, there's a lot of inconsistency and over prime that really needs to be looked at Steel shield I was just gonna say the same thing We did that test on steel and the amount of things that like it would block But then sometimes it wouldn't block it if you did it this way And then if you did it that way it would block it or like if you're taking damage But then you could throw it down midway and then you'd stop taking it. It was very weird I mean made steel look way overpowered with gel one ability It blocked everything except wraith like wraith was the only thing that Twin Blast grenades. Yeah twin blast grenades grounded pound from rampage. That was weird. Uh, Yeah, there was a lot of a lot of weird inconsistencies with uh with it And I think with the inconsistencies and and it's not going to be mine But I just want to kind of uh Jump on it is like also the prioritization of cc is also a little wonky sometimes Like it's it's not really clearly defined and I know a lot of games kind of struggle with that But I do think in pred it feels more consistent that like this ability overrides this ability Like the rock paper scissors kind of is a little bit more Obvious whereas like paper scissors silence silence Yeah, that's true. It's it's shotgun or something like that. It's Spock Yeah, I don't know it's weird, but uh, but overprime like it's like, you know, it's depending on like, okay I did my grucks pole and I hit the button But it didn't do finish the animation and somebody else stunned me first So not only did I lose the click which in uh in predecessor you get it back If you get interrupted when you press a button, you still have the ability to press it again afterwards, right? So I mean I've had so many my like ultimates or various things interrupted by some cc that I didn't even know was coming my way And now all of my major like my abilities are that I use to stay alive or use to do whatever are On cooldown now for however long and I just lose that teamfight. I'm kind of effed It's one of the reasons countless is the weakest fucking hero in overprime calari ultimate whether it stuns or doesn't stun. Oh my god I've now experienced it quite a few times like you do the right click Into the e combo and you think okay. I should be easily able. I'm literally right here. They're rooting. They can't move I'm looking right at them. Yeah, that's the button doesn't stun. Yeah, somehow they still end up getting away Um and also like some of the buffering that they do is also a little weird like did okay So the guy hit his uh blink at the same time that I eat But I stayed back, you know, I'm using calari as an example. I stayed back there where he was I've got the root thing there, but he's over there now rooted, but not like I can't do anything to him It's it is buggy. It is a little weird and it's absolutely a big It is a wonka doodle for sure jelly weaknesses Uh, I'm gonna give the same weakness for both of them and I mean this in a much more broader sense than it than it's typically used I think both of their balance sucks And for various reasons and I mean balance not just in hero balance I mean map balance objective balance tower balance hero balance the whole nine yards I think both of them really struggle in a lot of way item balance That was gonna be mine until you stole it So balance is a good one because I was gonna say item balance as my negative But now I don't have to think of another one, but that's it's true Um, but yeah that that both of them have I mean predecessor the big the big balanced nightmare right now is fang tooth If your team has fang tooth you win the game 99 of the time I had a game the other day we got to eight fang tooth And it was just like and the other team had zero and it was just like well at this point We're just not ending the game. We have eight fang tooth Like there's literally no way no way we lose this Because we just have that objective control And I'm not saying when you get to the extremes that you shouldn't Have the ability to just take over the game But when you get three of them you take over the game instantaneously like it's just one of those things Um for predecessor it's for uh over prime. It's both mini prime and large prime If you if your team controls those two things regardless of what state your game was in beforehand you win Because it does so much to the big prime does so much to destroy the map for the enemy team You can get in hibs. You can knock the core down to 1 percent You can do a lot of damage to the enemy's structures And mini prime is just one of those oppressive the amount of damage it does when you drop it the fact that it pushes back heroes If you it's basically usable in every scenario not just Taking down towers. Mm-hmm Even now people are talking about dropping it on the prime spirit to do or a burst of damage on prime spirit It runs into the duo lane. So now you're on prime spirit doing that while they have to go defend their duo lane Like it just does far far too much Especially in comparison to prime spirit prime spirit strong But if I have to choose between taking the primes or the prime spirits I'm going to give up prime spirit every single time and just go take the primes And so objectives to objectives meh Uh the itemization on both of them is meh the balance of those items as well like being in his countess video Fanatics dessert counters countess Ta-da, like you just and that's a core item you build and basically every carry build. Yep, or every amount to Dps character physical powered character build Fanatics dessert every single time and congratulations countess doesn't exist Like that that's a bad thing pendant of confinement If you're against a wraith if you're against these kind of poke mages pendant of confinement will basically negate all of that damage Right like you are ruining heroes because of your itemization and predecessor has similar items Not similar items to those two that I just mentioned but similar problems with their items Makes it balanced just as a whole for both of these games is just all over the place I like the idea of uh The top three strengths the top three weaknesses that apply to both games That gives me some ideas for videos because I think I think both games too have dead spit have um a lot of dead spots in their gameplay Yep It just it occurs in different times of both games, but there's definitely A lot of some some dead space in there where you got fucking shit all to do um Jedi you're uh Your weaknesses for both games Um, okay. Well jelly kind of stole my thunder a little bit, but I'm gonna kind of I guess just piggyback off of it I think um for me with overprime It's the post 20 minutes Just sucks balls It is so I don't know what it maybe it's better in like super high end, uh, you know ranked games But I don't know we'd have to talk to some of those guys and see what they but in most of my games After 20 minutes if you have like a pretty well like you know good even game that Post 20 minutes sucks so much. There's so much just like well I can't run forward because and catch that mini wave because They're gonna they're just gonna collapse on me And I we can't keep enough vision up far enough up to be able to protect ourselves so we can go out there They're doing the same thing It'll it's something I've had games where we're just staring at each other in mid lane At the opposite ends waiting for minions to push up far enough that we can go out and farm them And then and then of course you always have it in your game Where your guy will dip into the jungle to go for one jungle camp and then everybody from the enemy team Is there and kills him and now it's a 4v5 and you're you're just like, why were you in the jungle, bro? Like, you know, it just is so boring after 20 minutes And it's exactly what jelly was talking about the balance around those neutrals is so high Where you end up having to coin flip sometimes it's like, okay, so what does our team need more? Do we need to just like do we go into the throw pit that is prime and try and hope that we can 50 50 smite? Is it the first one? Or maybe we give that one away and keep stacking up spirits so that way we can get the minions pushing and And stay keep them on that way so we can get more gold and there's so many things that kind of start to play And when you're in a solo duo environment, it's really hard to get everybody on the same page to to because there's no real Like you do this to do this to do this like, you know, you end the game by following these steps And because it's all up in there go into the throw pit and hope your team wins Yeah, bring more smites and hope that your ping is good enough to win the 50 50 Like it's it's it sucks. Like I had a jungle game and mingus. I think was with me in this one I'm on 100 ping, you know, and I'm going we're going into a 50 50 jungle smite. Like it's like I'm gonna be at the disadvantage I'm on 104 ping that guy could be on like 30 ping like who's gonna win that smite battle And it sucks that it comes down to that kind of like, you know inconsistencies Um, so that's a good story for mentions in the chat high end is pretty good Sieging feels all right in my opinion when everyone knows what to do It shouldn't take everyone To siege something Right, it should take you knowing how to siege and being able to do so and a lot of that comes back down to minions All right, their their minions do not push lanes like you have to set them up Extraordinarily perfect for it to push a lane and actually be anything meaningful And then even then it can path weird it can path weird and fucking all up. Anyway, it's That's another one. Minions are garbage. Wukong's release Is that is wukong's identity is a split pusher through a split pusher duelist through and through We'll see if you can't split push in over prime Right, you can't build up massive waves. You can't do this wave management Then a lot of wukong's like strengths and ability and and play style is just kind of removed from the game And that will mute down mute wukong and maybe balance wukong a little bit But I don't think that's a good thing that that's the thing that's balancing wukong is he can't split push as effectively Yeah, what's your negative for a pred So this one i'm going to hark it in back a little bit to something I said you guys uh in our ftm discord where we just talk about stuff And it's the spectrum that I feel with predecessor I feel like I went and this is again guys if it's not an attack on people who enjoy the game like i'm not trying to yuck anyone else's young this is my my Current feelings and i'm sure some people will share it But if you don't this isn't an attack on you you might really love it But I feel like predecessor for me if I have like a bar graph with a line on it It's the two extremes are it's extremely tilting and then on the high end of where it's supposed to be good for me It's like meh at best like it's like okay I was good and and so much of how good it is is dependent on who i'm playing with And to me I can have fun with my friends in any game You know what I mean? It doesn't make the game good because i'm having fun with my friends Like I can do that in other games and still just to have as much equal fun So that has like a very small percentage increase on that so for me it goes again extremely tilting I don't want to touch this game. I like I've I rage quit it out of one of the games because it was just one of the most frustrating things And we were five stacked and and having fun with friends But I just it was so frustrating and then on the high end it's like Okay, like I don't ever feel like even when i'm popping off like i'm having like probably one of the best grucks games I've ever had i'm still not like as hyped up even if i'm having a mediocre game on grucks and overprime um So I think it's just a personal thing and maybe other people will disagree or agree but I just That spectrum is that where I think it's it's just not as much fun um It doesn't have as much because overprime has a very similar graph It has tilting moments where i'm tilted out of my mind And I don't want to touch it for a few days after I've had those tilting moments But then on the other hand it's also got extremely like hyped like crazy moments Where I do something that I'm not like you know would never think I could pull off and I pull it off anyway And it was like you know or that come back win where we just fought tooth and nail and made something crazy happen or whatever Like those moments feel so satisfying and overprime and so by contrast in predecessor I feel like it's it's off and um, yeah, I don't know if anybody else shares that same experience But that's my negative. I think other than some of the ones you guys mentioned because I agree with yours Right on uh, let's move on to the next question then Uh, mr. Ghost asks I know you guys have touched on it a little bit and maybe I missed it But what are your thoughts on communication levels from both teams? And where would you like them? I personally think that both teams um Like the industry industry standard for Uh indie developed like early access games. I think both teams are doing great I think predecessors doing really well with it. I think solely though goes above and beyond what I would expect from any Company, whether they're AAA or indie um But I think predecessors are just fine. Like they're they're they're good. They we get the information A lot of the a lot of their stuff is just kind of videos or gameplay or whatever But I think overprime goes like I think this um Video this recent video they released just nails it on the head with how much communication they give like they broke everything down Like why they're doing this? How they're doing this how far along they are in the process of figuring out how to do shit And then you got ranger just always in discord. Um, I think pred's communication Back in the day was fucking classic and I really missed that like um back in the day back in pred's discord You you smokey was in there all the time you I mean, I'm sure he's in there now but like Not like it was back back when like he is smoky and fringe and and like I'd be playing like hearthstone with smoky and shit like there was a lot It was it was a it was a much tighter close-knit um developer community relationship Uh when pred first started out that they are right now and I think that's understandable and acceptable But I just I missed that I think first so I'm going to put this into an analogy and It's not a perfect one But I think it captures the most of the idea that pred says their communication for both games pred assessor's communication is triple a amounts of communication at an indie student slightly above indie studio quality Whereas over prime is triple a quality at an indie studio level of communication or a frequency of communication Right where we get slightly more out of them. And when we do it's always like above above top of the line Like I'm always amazed at the production quality that goes into over prime stuff when they release it Right and but we have slightly less communication from pred assessor um, but that is they're they're Doing that triple a that only talk when they need to find a thing Right, but they do put out quality that is above just generic indie studio quality as well It's just not quite in the in the eyes of comparison of pred assessor to over prime There's looks awful in comparison with the production quality that comes out of over prime Not that there's is awful, but just when you look at them side by side, you're like, well, this is prettier and shinier Jedi any thoughts um, I mean, so I think that When we talk about this, we have talked about this a lot in in the past I think for me it's like, you know, we get to a point where we're really greedy You know, especially those of us who are like really invested in both studios and invested in this uh in this space um I I want more right. I always want more. I want more dates Like I want more hard commitments to doing things like, you know, I I get so annoyed and I know and it's probably cringy of me to do so But i'm probably not alone I get so annoyed when I don't get anything like Definitive like you know like as much as I give the console when guys shit I I would be if I was like a hardcore console guy, I would be pissed that like it's just Never given any like definitive like you will be able to play this game At this time like or or even if it was like more like like broader but narrowed it like, you know You know, we're aiming for summer like if everything goes well We want you guys to be able to play this game sometime in the summer. Okay Thank you. That's something like not knowing anything at all and having these kind of like just Up in the air dates drives me Nuts and I know it drives the community nuts if depending on whatever they're they're passionate about um, I also wish that the the communication levels Uh, we're more defined in trying to create a community space That's more inclusive. Um, I Would love it if I saw some more of these devs coming in and bashing people in the face who are You know being extremely negative or talking shit or trying to throw other players under the bus or Using racial slurs like they get banned in discord or stuff like that Like, you know, if they're really really bad But like those aren't those those aren't coming from like the devs saying like hey We don't stand by this stuff. OP has done it a little bit with you know, their Band channel of what they've banned, but it's almost always about third-party stuff And you don't really get a really clear idea of where what they were banned for overall because they kind of just lump it all together Um, so I think I would like to see more of that because one of the worst things that I feel like could keep coming up Is the toxicity of these communities? I you know, like we talked about this last FTM, but when I did that dive into, you know, the pred reddit It was terrible. It made me hate pred fans and I don't think all pred fans are those guys, right? Obviously, that's not true. Like they're just a vocal minority, but it made me like really annoyed I was just very frustrated. I was like guys. Why are you acting like fucking children? Like and I know over prime guys have done the same thing. Like I'm not Excuseing them, but this was just the most recent thing at the top of my head. I just hate it. Like dude, just Calm down, dude. Stop being children about this of and I wish that it wasn't just us as talking heads kind of throwing that out there in our communities because I think the FTM slash mangoose community has been great Like over the last few months, like we've had way less of those like really aggressive People coming into the comments and and shitting on one over the other Like, you know, you still see it every once in a while. Somebody comes in and says something but for the most part The FTM and mangoose community has Chilled out and it's just like, hey, you know, I enjoy this game for this and I, you know, enjoy this game for that You should play what makes you happy. I'm gonna play what makes me happy I don't you know, it is what it is and that's how I think it should be in both of these studios I think need to come out and do more in that regard. So Um, that that's how I feel when it comes to some of the the communication stuff You know that ends also if you're in the paragon subreddit Stop attacking the other community. Stop being like, this is the paragon subreddit. Not the over prime subreddit go there This is the over paragon subreddit. Not the predecessor subreddit. Just stop It's for a game that doesn't exist. It's neither of their subreddits It doesn't matter if someone wants to post over prime stuff in there Let them if someone wants to post predecessor stuff in there, let them be nice to each other No, you gotta be a pedantic asshole if you're going to be on reddit. God, it's wild Every time I go on the paragon subreddit, the comments are always like, this isn't the over prime subreddit. I'm like, stop I don't care Like someone's asking a question about over prime answer their question If someone's asking about something about predecessor answer their question Don't be this jerk that offers nothing to it Let's move on now to the question from boo Bloodthirsty support there is uh games have been out for a month, but seem like they're already dead Why? I I do think that they have lost a lot of players that doesn't either one feels dead to me I can get a match in either one within minutes, which I take a dead game as one that no matter when you never get a match, but uh, we played fault for two years So we're this is an improvement No, but I honestly I think I think there's a Bigger reasoning to this and it's the faults of both companies and also I would say not their faults at the same time They both released in the busiest time of year on the planet Yeah, true Like plain and simple like Companies take weeks off at a time and I don't know what these guys took off in terms of time frame, right? Companies do take weeks off at a time In people have families coming into town people travel people do Everything under the sun over the last month of the year and these are the time that both of these games released I think that certainly does not help either of them in any way shape or form I think predecessor has done more to To mitigate that but Both of them They released at the worst possible time for anything to release On top of all the other things in the world that are releasing at the same time like it's just wild I kind of agree. I think it's a little too early to say dead You know what I mean, like it's And I think that's something too we talked about this last week I think as well like, you know, they have only really been out for like a month and a half at this point Like that's really not that long You know, like there's there's a and they're both, you know And I know we hate this term, but they are in early access, right? So like that gives to me gives a little bit of a buffer of that they have Um, you know an expectation of time to kind of work on things and improve And I think to be fair both studios to be fair to be fair Yeah Both studios will have returning players on major content updates Like we will probably get huge numbers when wukong comes out We're gonna get huge numbers when revenue comes out and it's getting keep happening as more of these, you know Champions are released in both studios. Uh, I mean I don't think like I said, I think dead is too strong of a word I do think there was a major lull and you can absolutely, you know Attest that to a bunch of things you can say because of the holidays You can say that people just weren't having as much fun as they hoped they would Not their favorite champion wasn't in the game that they wanted to play Life happened. There's just so many reasons for the fluctuation Not to mention the two different, you know time zones at which both Of these devs operate in and you know the way things kind of fluctuate from that I don't think they're dead I think that they both are struggling to keep engagement in some capacities and they both have plans to fix that I think the new player experience is probably the biggest one I think the studios that do the best job of iterating on that and improving it will see more Longevity and probably consistency as far as player base and retention in that but time will tell I think it's too early to say dead Concerning maybe but not overly concerning. Anyway, like I wouldn't be overly concerned if I'm these guys I wouldn't be like knee-jerk reaction to two different things Um, let's move on to the final question Which I think is quite interesting and I actually speaks to a lot of what ethereal has been doing This is from my troll face. Uh, does the dissonance between visual and kit design Make an important part in new player onboarding and would it be better to fix that dissonance? The example he gave is bellica. Uh, if you look at bellica If if you knew nothing about paragon, you would probably assume that she was an adc She's got the submachine gun and shit. She just looks like an adc But she's a mage so but you do see a lot of new players trying to build her as Like um, a basic attack damage hero and ad carry. Um, another prime example. I think of this, um This happened in paragon with aurora. People saw frost girl. They immediately thought frost mage They thought aurora was a mage aurora was never a mage. She's a magical damage bruiser kind of like quang is Um, you know, I still see that come up in over prime So I think this is a really interesting question Should they apply that because jelly you could speak for ethereal you guys have applied that A lot if like you've often said if it's in their kit, they're going to use it And I think there's a very clear delineation You know what you're picking whenever you pick it, you know ron's going to be a bruiser Yeah, you know talos is going to be a bruiser You have an understanding of what to expect you look at leah's fucking wings and you're like that That bitch is going to fly she's going to fly she she she flies Malaya looks like an assassin marina looks like a support like everything in ethereal I think looks I mean it's subjective of course, but I think everything in ethereal looks like it is what it is As opposed to the paragon hero design A lot of them don't look like the role that they actually I don't so my answer to this question would be kind of yes and no I don't think it necessarily helps with new player onboarding to have characters that Look the part for lack of a better way to put it, but I do think it helps with new player intuition And maybe there's an aspect that that can cross over into onboarding or more so player new player retention Right, if it's easier to intuitively understand what my character is going to do Then I may like them better like them faster get better with them faster and thus play the game longer um But it's I definitely think looks he uses another example of severog severog's hammer is massive giant sledgehammer looking thing And severog's the majority of his abilities are magic based abilities that do nothing with this hammer His ultimate is the only and basic attack are the only abilities that do something with the main thing you see in his If I go in there and I'm like dude, I can't wait to just like sledgehammer people Right, and then he reaches out with his other hand and just steals their soul Right, it's like well, that's cool, but that's not what I expected. That's not it's shadow magic Right, you show somebody a picture You show somebody a picture of charizard from pokemon Right, and you go that thing he's gonna have a flamethrower. He's he's gonna fire based right very intuitive very straightforward You you look at severog you go he's got a hammer. Oh, but he uses magic like what what like it just It's that slight disconnect that maybe is turning away new players or just turning away players from playing other characters in general And they think uh, I'm physical damaged character But I'm actually magic or I'm a magic damage character, but I'm actually I look physical like it's It's this weird disconnect in players minds I I could definitely see that being a factor And I would say they should change it right like I mean that's like you said mangoose That's part of a theory of design, but I think it should change going forward I don't think they should reiterate past heroes or past releases With this because then it's just going to throw everything to the wind and it's just going to be more complicated That it leads to what I was going to add on is I think that it's like the curse a little bit of Paragon assets, right like the some of this is just Because that's how it was right like you just can't really innovate some of those characters enough To really add in that you know that to to remove that disconnect Um, because I know for me bellica I thought for sure she was a carry when I first played paragon back in the I played I picked her as a carry. I like Obvious Very wrong, right like it was but I was a new player and and I you know I eventually learned and you know, and I do expect that players should learn and You know and grow from it But I will say and and we haven't quite seen it yet from pred, but at least over prime has shown us with zina She I think matches her aesthetic like I Her sword and her abilities all kind of go together her right click feels like it doesn't feel Disconnected, um, and I think some of the changes that they made for some of the other champions have added a little bit of that Um, and and I think it's more present in in some champions versus others But like you expect twin blast right to be a dual wielding, you know, pistol guy all of his abilities feel I mean other than his grenades, maybe which are weird because they just always seem to just come out of his hands somehow They do come out of his hands because he has mechanical hands Right, but it just looks weird. It doesn't you don't see the mechanic part open up and a grenade pops out, right? Like you just yeah, you do if you if you should slow it down Do you? No, I haven't did you know that remnants obliterate. Where does that come from? Uh Wait, I don't know he pulls down his scarf and spits it out of his mouth What crazy, right? I did not know that you get the Okay, well whatever because I go into the real engine and dick around with the assets all the time Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Either way I just think that that the curse of paragon is kind of going to be I think present in these unless they do like A full rework of of the champions, which this is something that we've talked about a little bit I think they should not now Wait a little bit But I think if these both these studios last the test of time like I'm talking about like a year maybe year and a half from now Two years from now They should go back like league of legends has done and I think smite's done it before too And reinvent some of these old characters give them a new facelift Like make them feel more relevant in the game that you've now designed around original ip's um But yeah, so I there the dissonance is is tough. I think for new players more than anything But for returning players For the most part, I think they're gonna work through it just fine But time to tell on pred's, you know, ip on whether or not we'll feel like she We're getting huntress first, right? Yeah So whether or not she feels like she matches her kit based off what we've seen I think she will I think it'll be pretty obvious what she looks like an adc And I think she is an adc so I think ranged characters have it a little easier Right bellica being the the exception to that Ranged characters should feel ranged right as long as they shoot things as long as they do something like that Right, you can kind of cover up a lot of that But when melee characters are using magic, that's when it starts to feel maybe So weird of what their identity feels like at a glance. Yeah I like uh fleet they said uh, she she does three round bursts, but it only hits once. Yeah, that's true Yeah I think uh to Talk about original ip. I think yeah, I think huntress just looks like an adc and she's going to be an adc I think they did a good job there Adele has a shield that just screams tank and we know that Adele is going to be a pretty much a true engaged tank um Makko I don't know if he really screams support to me, but What the fuck does he scream and I think the common thing with supports is little and cute Yeah, right. So you see like mako being a little and cute creature. You're fine Right, like you go like if you look at other mobas there There's a lot of little cute supports compared to little cute like Downright beasts that are just smashing down other people, right? Like is that's kind of the Small and weak support kind of thing fits together. I mean, I disagree, but I see what you're saying Oh, uh, mulla brings up a good point samples that you can give me it is harder with futuristic design Because like what does a mage look like in that or nothing 100% But I think there's ways that you can do that bellica's rifle, right? Make her smg look like it uses some kind of magical energy Right, and then you had tied into her a little bit better, right? There are plenty of ways that even subtly you can make that more cohesive feeling rather than just I use an smg and then I suddenly bash my fist into the ground and a wave of earthquake it comes out from it Like right that doesn't do physical damage. It does magic damage to you Even if you're being launched up with rocks. It's it's weird. I also think these games Need to have more splash arts I think the splash arts do a lot of work In explaining what a character can do at a glance before someone plays them Right videos of these games have just pure either portrait shots or maybe a A profile shot of these characters And I don't think that does enough To explain what's going on whereas like if you like bellica I'll we'll use bellica again as to the instance if I looked at bellica splash Right and I see a drone in the background I go oh she has a drone of some kind that she can put out on the ground that saps mana or explodes or whatever it's going to do Right, I know then have some kind of cognitive recognition Of there's something more to her than just her smg Right, whereas if I just look at her model, she just has an smg and that doesn't tell me anything about her abilities Big trip Yeah, I'm in a pistol that does more damage because you're missing mana a little There's I think there's like some things you just can't Fully innovate or make extremely obvious, but bellica is probably the biggest one like that seems super kind of like What is your identity like who are you and what are you and why do you do the things you do? It doesn't it doesn't always make sense or add up. I think bellica and aurora. Yeah, it's a little weird um I think op's aurora does a little bit better of a job like with some of it But not it's still not super great It's still lacking. I think sprint mode helps because she spawns her sword out of nothing Mm-hmm that She's like she's trying to do a sith choke the whole time. She's running. She's like Ready to just yeah um Let's start let's start wrapping things up. That was all the questions that we had um I did the light bulb moment. I had earlier when we were talking about over prime portals I was thinking about yin because yin could always lash to her Her friends. What if she lashes the somebody as they're going through the portal with yin? Also go flash into prime spirit pit But still you're getting two people through the portal. Mm-hmm. Yeah effective two friendlies So there is benefit especially with yin being able to go to allies Because great so she goes to prime spirit or mini prime pit And there's another portal right there that she can then take on the other side Oh, shit All right. Well, uh, let's start wrapping things up. I think it was a that was a really fun episode um Yeah, uh, we're not we're not going to do them on mondays from now on we haven't changed nights It's always going to be sundays, but uh I just this time we had to we had to put on it today, but I think Uh jedi any final comments before we uh head out and where could find you what are you doing? Um, I've kind of taken another little hiatus from from streaming Mostly just because I feel like every time I was streaming these games I was just raging and grumpy and I don't want to put out that kind of content And and some of that's on me like I've been taking the grind to rank a little too serious I think and getting really grumpy that I can't play on west coast because The servers are using the word dead. I think they are fairly dead west coast feels dead as as f Um, but no, I I just want to give a huge shout out to the people who quickly got in and because I made those The changes in the ftm put out a small little announcement and we got like A huge engagement right bigger than I expected engagement. I should say off of the question So, uh, thank you guys those of you who put in the questions You know, it really means a lot to us to get that But yeah now everybody if you want to go to the discord should be linked below And if you have questions for us and you want us to read them out like we did on here Give you a little shout out. Um, please do so. Obviously the intention is not to create a discussion in that channel necessarily It's more just so we can see the questions you guys think are are important Do keep it Obviously appropriate because we're not going to just you know, read whatever question blindly. So don't be dumb. Um But uh, there we go I guess jelly was done. Click something. He must have clicked something on accident. It just left us. Yeah Fuck this shit. I'm out Yeah, so that's that's all I got. I think I'm really stoked. I did hit gold this last week. Um, so kudos to me Let's go. Um, but uh, no, that's that's all I got. You can still follow me on twitter It's still an active website. So if you want to do that, uh, but yeah, that's all jellanese Not much, you know, just uh, follow me on youtube and twitch and yeah What are you making? Uh got a grucks video from predacessor coming out tomorrow. I haven't done I haven't been playing uh pred a lot, but uh I need to get into pred a bit more and get some more content out for pred. So I'm Trying to do that. Uh Again the ftm discord. It's no longer my discord is now the ftm discord. I even changed the uh icon today so profile pic whatever the fuck you call it and um But put that question in the in the in the discord bloodhunter. Um, but I appreciate everybody coming out tonight. Uh, Like I said, really fun episode. I need to get back into doing the timestamps I don't know why I stopped on that but I need to get back into it But if you're still watching this on on the stream if you're still hanging in there with us It's a man geese in the chat. It would be much appreciated if you're watching this in the video format I appreciate you that as well But um, I think that's gonna wrap it up for this week. This is the four of the minions crew signing off you guys