 Live from Boston, Massachusetts, extracting the signal from the noise, it's theCUBE, covering Red Hat Summit 2015. Brought to you by Red Hat. Now your hosts, Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. We're back in Boston, welcome to Red Hat Summit everybody. This is theCUBE, Silicon Angle, Wikibon's live production of Red Hat Summit. theCUBE goes out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. This is our 39th event so far this year. Ashesh Badani is here as the general manager of Cloud at Red Hat. Ashesh, good to see you again, welcome back to theCUBE. Great to see you guys again, love to be on theCUBE. So thank you, great event, you know, a lot of energy, a lot of action and expanding your business in a good time to do that. So talk about what you're doing in Cloud. What is Cloud to Red Hat? Let's start there. All right, great question. So this has been a big week for us. We launched OpenShift Enterprise 3 this week. We've been working on it for 12, 18 months now. And really it's been a culmination of a great industry move towards standardization around containers and specifically the Docker specification or standardization around Docker, as well as adopting container orchestration management. We've been partnering pretty heavily with Google and many other community and getting into general availability, Kubernetes as part of OpenShift Enterprise 3 and of course building an entire developer workflow, automation around that whole effort. So this has been a big week for us. We also announced an expansion of the OpenShift Commons, which is our open source community around users, contributors, partners, customers. It's gone over 100 strong now, a lot of collaboration across the entire group. We also had customers. I think we had Amadeo's on theCUBE yesterday talking about the Amadeo's Cloud services. So overall, big huge week from a cloud perspective, from OpenShift. So when you guys announced something like OpenShift E3, what are you actually announcing? So you've done work in the community and it's now baked and you're certifying it and supporting it and it's part of the subscription. Is that correct? Yeah, it's a great quick question. So we do a lot of work upstream, maybe what we call upstream in the community. I'll use the Linux analogy because I think that works best here, right? So we have very enterprise Linux, which is used, tried, tested around the world, right? Large corporations, financial institutions, governments everywhere around the world use that. That's enterprise class stable distribution from Red Hat. Upstream from Red Hat and Press Linux comes Fedora, open source community, right? And there are many distributions like that, right? So there's Fedora, there's Scientific Linux, there's Ubuntu, Debian, what have you. And then upstream from that is, if you will, where all the contribution happened, right? So people always talk about how organic, how much growth is there in the upstream community, right? So they talk about the hundreds, thousands of projects that upstream from that, right? GFC, SystemD, what have you. Meaning it's not just Red Hat. Exactly, it's not just Red Hat, it's, you know, I mean, the classic proverbial, the guy in the basement and the garage, right? Sort of contributing, but also Intel and IBM and many other companies contributing, right? So let's use that analogy, bring that forward to the OpenShift model, right? Which is a question that I know Stu will ask me, so I'm just going to answer it before he asks me that question. We have OpenShift Enterprise, right? Which is our enterprise, you know, private pass, right? You can run it on Red Enterprise Linux. You can run it on bare metal in a virtualized environment, whether it's from ours or VMware or Microsoft. You can run it directly on OpenStack, right? Of course, in the area of increasing interest for, you know, a lot of the viewers of Cube, presumably, as well as on certified third-party clouds, right? Amazon, Google, and so on. I hit another question, it's going to ask me. And so that's where you can run OpenShift Enterprise. We also have a public cloud model, right? You can run OpenShift Online directly in the public cloud. We actually run it off of Amazon, AWS, EC2, right? Obviously, that's transparent to the customer. And then we just also announced a preview release of OpenShift V3 dedicated, which is, you know, for customers who want to say, look, I'm really interested in the public cloud model, but you know, I'd like some more control over it, right? So they can run OpenShift Enterprise V3 that's managed by the team that runs OpenShift Online Ops, right? Which is, you know, over two and a half million apps that have been deployed on that platform since the start. So, I'm staying with the Renewable Enterprise Linnoklin analogy. Upstream from that is OpenShift Origin, right? That's the open source community where all the contributions happen, right? And we kind of take, you know, if you will, distribution of that that we support. Upstream from that, right? You know, staying with that analogy, right? Is a series of communities, right? One of them was Docker, right? We contribute heavily as a company within the OpenShift team and Red Hat into the Docker community, right? Other than Docker Inc. itself, the number one contributor to Docker is Red Hat. We contribute now aggressively to Kubernetes. Other than Google, you know, who we start the project with, the top contributor to the Kubernetes community is Red Hat, right? And the OpenShift team. There's Jboss, right? There's obviously, you know, Fedora that we pull down from. ActiveMQ, a series of communities that we pull down from, right? So, when you think about the OpenShift model, right? The right question to ask is, is it like the Linux community? Actually, it's becoming increasingly just like the Linux. So, what I just heard in terms of how you define cloud, you define cloud however, the customer or the consumer defines cloud, whether it's on-premises, off, in Amazon, in between, however they want to consume. So, you know, it's a great question. We like to think about cloud from a hybrid cloud perspective, right? I think increasingly, you know, those distinctions will stop mattering, right? If at a certain point in time, and it seems to be happening, a customer says, you know, I've got a piece of software. Right now, we're super excited about deploying containers. When you think about it, you know, when you, what's a container? It's, you know, a packaging format and API. We're excited about that today, but let's look forward a year from now. Are you really excited by how the car is built? You know, that's kind of interesting, but then you're like, well, what's the car sort of look like, right? And, you know, what can I kind of do with that car? And so I think that's the world we'll go to, right? So people assume, I've got some code. Someone figure out how to containerize it. Someone help me figure out where to run it. And that somebody is what Red Hat's looking to do, especially, you know, in this case, specifically OpenShift. So, Chess Dev is obviously the killer use case. It's the tip of the spear for this hybrid cloud scenario that you're putting forth. Do you think so? Where are we with regard to that, you know, that hybrid of being able to take, you know, an app that I develop here and then run it anywhere I want? And will it go beyond Test Dev, that idea of being able to run an application, push a button and run it on another cloud and bring it back, will they actually do that? So, you know, that's a question that's often asked, right? And, you know, my answer that always is, you know, people aren't going to pay billions of dollars just for DevTest, right? And we're already seeing, for example, Amazon's great example of that, right? You know, people are actually starting to run their businesses off of Amazon. We see that with our own customers, right? So, we've been on a journey now for over three years with several customers like FICO, with Cisco, CA, right? All of whom actually are presenting this week. They've all got innovation award-winning, our winners. And they've started with us with DevTest and now they're all in production, right? You know, Cisco's a great example. You'll see, I think, a presentation from the tomorrow. And they're now showing, I think they've got over a thousand apps in production with us, right? If you looked at the presentation from last year, that number was half that. All right, so, Ashish, I do have to ask the question. When I talk to kind of my peers in the community and we talk about where the past discussion today, in many ways, Cloud Foundry with the foundation has gained a lot of momentum as, you know, an open source past solution. And you've got very visible, you know, IBM, HP and Pivotal, all with their solutions built on that. So, can you help us understand really, you know, OpenShift, you know, why is an analytics foundation? How's the community built? You know, is there a customer advisory board? You know, how do we rationalize and how do we, you know, I'm not doubting Red Hat's, you know, open source methodology and ethos, but, you know, you know, how many passes do we need and how does OpenShift line up? So, people ask the question all the time and I say to them, right, why is foundation the answer to every problem? Right, it's almost like, you know, I don't care what the question is, let me give you a foundation as the answer. Eh, maybe not so much. I'll go back to the earlier answer that I gave you, right? People don't ask how many contributors there are to Fedora or to Ubuntu or to Debian, right? They ask, well, how many contributors are there to the upstream community that they pulled from? And there's a lot of movement and change that happens, right? There's a lot of evolution that happens, right? The OpenShift model has changed to one that matches that, right? The question, in my mind, the question isn't to ask, you know, is there a foundation around OpenShift? Why is that important? The question is where's OpenShift drawing from, you know, where are the contributions coming from? And they're coming from companies like Docker, Kubernetes, you've got active OpenShift engineers working in every one of those upstream communities. And customers love that, right? We've seen Amadeus come on and talk about what they're doing, right? And they actually announced the GA of the Amadeus Cloud Services yesterday, which is built on OpenShift v3. A big reason for that is they love the work that we're doing with Docker and Kubernetes. In fact, they're contributing with the upstream, both to Origin as well as to upstream communities. And we encourage that, right? So, we've seen, you know, I think this week we've got Barclays here, we've got Target here, we've got Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, my alma mater also here, all talking about their use of OpenShift, right? So, I think what we're seeing is customers responding to the choices we're making and we're ahead of the industry with regard to those choices and we aggressively want to stay there. Yeah, I was actually, I was talking to one of the journalists here, ran a panel of customers. The customers were real happy with Red Hat, but I tell you, they weren't really ready for OpenShift. So, I guess two parts to the question is, one, you know, where are we with kind of, you know, customer readiness adoption? Does it really solve a real burning issue? And I guess then we can get into some kind of, you know, specific use case discussion. Yeah, fair enough. So, you know, my response to that is if you go and talk to customers, are you ready for MeSauce, right? Every customer is going to say yes to you. They shouldn't, right? You know, Paul used Kormir who runs you know, using an analogy yesterday saying, we've got to be careful with regard to what we give, you know, which customer and what stage, right? They have to be ready. They have to be sophisticated enough. They have to have the skills and they have to have willingness. They have to have the use cases for them, right? So, I'm not going to come and say, every customer moved to OpenShift or all Red Hat technologies tomorrow, right? You start where you are ready, right? And we feel like the solution that we've got with OpenShift is about, you know, start at the right point. So, OpenShift Online, do you not want to take software and run it yourself? Great. Come to OpenShift Online. You don't need to run any software. We run it entirely on the public cloud. All you need to do, and by the way, thousands of users are signing up for this, right? So, two and a half million applications since we started OpenShift Online in the public cloud, users doubling year on year, applications doubling year on year, right? Someone might say, you know what? I'd like to try the model that I want to get around the public cloud, but I'm not sure yet. Try OpenShift Dedicated, right? Which is, if you will, in between spot, between a full public and private. Someone else like, you know, some of the companies I mentioned, right? CACS, Cisco, FICO, Barclays will say, well, I'm ready to take this on ourselves, running our own data center or our own cloud. Great, try OpenShift Enterprise. So, I feel like we've given, or we're starting to give, you know, customers a variety of different choices with regard to their starting points. Yeah. So, one of the other challenges we have is, you know, creating new applications is tough. Right. You know, there's not a killer app there. It's usually you need to understand their business. You have to help them work through, you know. Can you speak to, you know, where we are, have you gotten kind of that process down a little bit faster? You know, how do we, it's not going to be standardized, but, you know, a kind of maturity of that whole development. And, so I'm a big believer, and we talk about this all the time with regard to OpenShift, that every company in the world today is a software company. Some realize it, some understand it, you know, others are in the process of doing that. There's been a big survey put out by, I think, PWC, right, Support Price Warehouse. Cooper's did a big CUS survey. But if I'll use a U.S. sports analogy, right, there's a notion of offense or defense. Many companies want to expand outside their existing industry, right, because they realize that it's grown outside, right. So I think Jim Whitellors talked about this yesterday in his keynote, or a couple of days ago, about, you know, the Fords and the GMs of the world realizing, you know, we need to be very, very expert in skilled at software. And there are many companies that need to play a defense, right, you know, if you're in the transportation business, right, the proverbial example is, you know, you know, you need to be ready for an Uber to show up. And so on, right, if you're in the hotel business, right, you need to be ready for someone like an Airbnb to show up in your world. And so if every company needs to be at the cusp of understanding how to use software, every company needs to be thinking about innovation, right. That's the sweet spot that we aim at with OpenShift, right. How can we unleash the power of various companies, but also their ecosystems to work on, to build applications, develop them. FICO is a great example of that, right. You know, everyone knows what FICO is, right. You know, you need a FICO score, at least in the United States, right, to get a loan, to get a mortgage, what have you. But FICO also realized we've got to be ready for someone to come and disrupt us, right. Tony McGiven, CIO of FICO is here, talking about, hey, we need to reach out to small and medium-sized businesses. We need to run it on the cloud. They built that on OpenShift. Okay, so you go into, you're talking to a CEO of an organization that's worried about getting disrupted, defense, and also wants to go on offense. And, you know, Acme, Inc., whatever. He says, I would like your help. I need a platform, right. I need an API. I don't really know what these things are, right. But I'm told I need them by my team. How can you help? Yeah, so first I would say thank you for giving me that opportunity to come and chat with you, because we think we have the perfect solution for you, right. Pretty much every CIO we speak to, and you know, there were about 100 of them that we spoke to just a couple of days ago at the executive exchange at Red Hat Summit. They tell us two things, right. First is, I need to reduce cost, right. You know, everyone talks about the 80-20 rule, right. I'm spending way too much money maintaining my existing applications, not enough innovating, right. Agreed, every company, software company, you need to be innovating more. Then the other part is, how do I become more agile, right. You know, every CIO is not talking about DevOps, right. Well, I'm not a Google, I'm not a Twitter, I'm not a Facebook. How can I be like them without necessarily going off to Carnegie Mellon and hiring those PhDs, right, like Facebook apparently seems to be doing when they're in the sophomore year. So, our advice to them is to say, you know, from a Red Hat perspective, from an OpenShift perspective, we want to build on all the skill that you have. Do you have a bunch of guys who can run Linux? Well, actually you do, right. Pretty much, seemingly, every company is running Linux in the enterprise today. They might be running Windows, right, but they're also running Linux. If you're doing that, right, how can we leverage those skills and take you forward, right. Linux is powering the cloud, and we need to give you technology to take advantage of those skills and help you move up the curve. The OpenShift solution to them is to say, you know, think about how you can empower additional developers who are entering a workforce, right, the millennials, right. They don't want to be tied down by what you have today, right. They want to play with node, build the next, you know, Ruby, you know, or Ruby, build the next mobile app, the next web app, right. And how can we give you the tool, the same platform to innovate with that, right. Parkway is actually using that model pretty aggressively to build new applications out, but also move the existing applications over, right. You know, they have applications on WebLogical WebSphere. They want to move that over to a more modern and a low-cost platform. OpenShift can help you do that. All right, so, Ashesh, I want to dig in a little bit on, you know, some of the cloud guys. We look at, you know, Azure kind of started out as a Paz, Amazon blurs the line between infrastructure services Paz, Oracle made a Paz announcement this week. You know, how does Red Hat, you know, the co-opetition's always tough, but, you know, what do you see what they're doing? You know, what are they doing right? What, you know, where does Red Hat play in this space? And any comments on, like, the Oracle announcement would be great. So I'll make a controversial statement, though, right. WebLogical WebSphere going right after them is what I just heard. WebLogical WebSphere is yesterday's news, right. We shouldn't be talking about them anymore. But I'll make a controversial statement by saying, you know, I think we're in the post-Paz era now, right. I don't think we need to keep talking about Paz because I feel like, you know, Paz, IES, those conversations are distracting, right. So if we look forward, right, 12, 18, 24, 36 months, you know, what we increasingly think about is, you know, there are groups of people who want to develop applications. And then it's the job of the infrastructure to figure out where those applications run based on the constraints given to them, right. You know, it could be cost, it could be flexibility, it could be, you know, geographical constraints, right. You know, I'm in the European Union, I need to make sure that the application that they, you know, run and live within that area. That is the vision, that is the world that we're trying to move to, right. The OpenShift perspective is to say, you know, we are going to give you as many tools and flexibility to build those applications, right. You know, go out, you know, build the next Snapchat, if you will. And then run it on a platform and let OpenShift take care of where it runs. So I'll give you another example of a partnership we announced this week. Working now more and more closely with companies like Mesosphere, right. Mesosphere is talking about how can we plug in the Mesos framework into different technologies that are out there, right. From an OpenShift perspective, of course, you know, we're contributing aggressively upstream to Kubernetes, but we also watch emerging companies that come up. When we have conversation companies like Amadeus, right, one of the biggest values we provide to them is, look, we will invest and stay ahead. Not too far ahead, right, cause that's the risk, right. I mean, you know, everyone knows the story of next, right. I mean, great vision, right. But, you know, too far ahead and that, you know, Steve Jobs have come back to Apple, right. To solve the problem that you're going to solve the next. But so not too far ahead of where things stand, but enough so that, for example, if people want to plug in Mesos into OpenShift, we can help them do that, right. They want to take advantage of the cluster and scheduling, right, that takes that part of that community. We can help them do that with OpenShift. So you see Paz as sort of, you know, the old school. Gartner calls it bimodal, IDC has platform two, platform three. So you see Paz as sort of the old school. You don't want to over rotate to what IDC calls platform three. You're the bridge, is that right? And the next gen? I want people to use whatever term helps them understand what they're doing. If it's Paz, fantastic, works for them. If, you know, bimodal IDC works for them, that's great. Third platform works for them, that's great. You're increasing the conversation we have with customers. And I've been meeting with them in North America, in Europe, in Asia. The conversations really aren't about definitions anymore. They're about, look, you know, here are the problems you're going to solve, right. Can you help me, for example, with running, you know, stateful and stateless applications, right. People talk about 12 factor apps. We've talked to a CI who has said, you know, look, I have a few thousand apps and about five of them can be run in this new cloud-native world. What the heck am I supposed to do with the other 4,995 of them, right. And so our answer to that is, you know, use a platform that can support you on both, right. You don't want to throw that stuff away, right. So I think in the conversation that we're having increasingly, right, we're talking about, you know, can we give them persistent shared storage? Do you want to run DBADS, database and service on the same platform? We can help you with that. Do you want to take advantage of software-defined networking and plug in with an existing Cisco or Nuage, right. You know, more partners of ours that helps solve that problem. Yes, we can help you with that, right. You can plug in those technologies into what we're doing. Great. Well, of course, we're out of time so we got to leave it there. So thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. Really great to see you and sharing your insight with our community. Thank you very much. You know, big week for us, obviously, right. So to all the viewers out there, right, you know, go check out OpenShift Enterprise, right. We've launched version three of that this week and we'd love to get more feedback and participation. Awesome. All right, keep it right there, everybody. Stu and I will be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE. We're live in Boston from Red Hat Summit. We'll be right back.