 A couple things to chat about here, a couple questions that we're supposed to be considering over the next half an hour. Yeah, about a half an hour. I'm Alyssa Schoen, by the way, and I ask you to facilitate this conversation. It's nice to be here with you all. I know many of you, but yeah. Yeah, do you want to introduce yourself? I'm Alyssa Schoen. Where's this wastewater? Grab some cherries. Right, that's where we should go. You're in deep wastewater now. Yeah, I'm over. Grab a chair. We thought it was a smaller group, so we were just, you know, circling up here. So just smash in and pop the door. That's why. It's hot in here. It's hot outside, but not as hot as we're in here. Do you want to sign another table over? It's totally up to you. I don't know, man. Sure. Yeah, one thing I do want to do is try to remember where they are starting. Okay, so while we're organizing the room, I'm just going to help get us started here. We have a couple questions. This group want to give to the commission saying these are the things we need to be looking into for wastewater. Can you clarify when you say the commission for the community, what is this about? Yeah, all I know is what this says here. It's that there's going to be a Montpelier Commission for Recovery and Resilience that they're going to take, you know, that you can apply to be on by September 14th. And there's going to be some initial committee members. And if everyone doesn't have this, it looks like there's going to be a group of like three to five to start. So a representative of Montpelier Alive, the Montpelier Foundation, and the City of Montpelier. And then this group will start to build out a commission looking at these top five things that we just prioritized and then bringing in other topics. We're thinking about advising this body. What questions do we have for them? Or what advice do we have for them as they form? And if you could please state your name before. And we're taking some notes over here. Sure. I'm Elvira, the IFA. And I based on some of the previous forum conversations, the advice I would have is to provide information in layman's terms to the public about steps that have been taken about the condition of the wastewater treatment facility of the general system in town. Based on comments that I heard, I think there's a lot of mis-dis or un-information where people feel that certain actions have not been taken, whereas in fact they've made the process. And so I think just providing a status report of the current situation, but also highlighting efforts that are currently underway or projected into the future. And that maybe on the horizon next year, two years from now, five years from now, would be very helpful. That's not for the commission, but I think it's very important for public understanding of this key framework. So what's the state of the state as it pertains to the status of the wastewater treatment facility and flooding and resilience? Great. That will help set the baseline. What else? I encourage you from the city and you can help absorb this information as well as these notes. Yeah. I just have a basic question. My understanding from talking to one of the wastewater technicians was that the plant didn't flood and it operated as intended. They still were releasing untreated water and untreated sewage into the river because they didn't have a capacity to treat it. I just have a basic question. What's the fight to solve for education about how it works and issues in and as taxpayers would just spend a ton of money? Yeah. Yeah. And you can certainly speak to this in a way I think about the problem as defined by the conversation and previous ones. That we want to protect the wastewater treatment facility from being inundated with water to the point that it can no longer function for our city during flooding. Would you say that that is... Yeah. So we didn't flood, but it was really close. Really close. So we had a bigger impact. So is it just volume of water or is it the threat of all that soap and everything else coming into the added serious problem? Yeah. Yeah. So we had a lot of impacts from soap. So we went through the collection system in case we cleaned up all the plants and ended up on the plant. So all of the tanks so all the pumps were seizing up because they didn't pump because there was so much soap at the plant. How long did it take you to clean all that stuff? So we're doing one tank at a time. So you really didn't escape? There wasn't catastrophic damage, right? So none of the major... So what would be a catastrophic... So in a previous flood, the water actually was... I'm going to repeat the one before that. Same here. Water came up through the pipe from the river and there was a manhole cover that wasn't secured. The whole plant flooded and the electrical and all they put in the sandwich and the pipe was done. So to clarify, you were talking about the effect of the additional water flowing through the treatment system. Right. But the catastrophic event could be water that's not being processed through the system but is reaching the situation. And so I think there was discussion about raising the perimeter or some other methods to prevent that. So did you need me to put my tikes around that? Well, that's what we're talking about. I mean, that's what we're talking about. That's one idea. Other ideas that I've heard have been to turn to dog river fields there and forest that area and create like flood plain. Just not use it. Not mow it and just let it grow up so it can absorb more water. Perhaps, for instance, trees there. What are other ideas? In terms of you either have to do a natural or an engineering solution but we've got to get the water away or maybe we do upstream solutions around the dog river to allow upstreams more biodes or things for the water. Just one more terrifying thing. So during the heavy rainfall, the problems you were having was literally from the rain itself being so much that you had more water than you could do it. So the plants designed for 4 million gallons a day. And we were having about 10 million gallons a day in a cubit facility. Because, yeah, rain was getting in the mammals because they're free for underwater. So there's massive amount of flood coming through the plants. So what we did, we were partially treated but we had to pull like a disinfection system out of the channels so they didn't get damaged very easily. So there's these lights you'd be disinfecting up. We pull them because they're up here. You can wash away as there's so much water running through the mouth. The speed of the water is just to the point where it's going to go down. So that's why we had a boil notice? So that's the water potable water system, the drinking water system. It's separate from the wastewater system. So in this case, wastewater is being disinfected to the river. Yeah. Right. Let's just start with the Moosey River as opposed to the water system starts up in Berlin through a different set of things. Okay. So that, we had to go through a boil situation because Berlin is a problem with it. There wasn't actually any known issue with the water system. The state recommended that we issue a cautionary water warning. Just in case there's contamination we didn't know about. Like seeping into the pipes. Yeah. Yeah. That would be possible if they're going to work great. What other thoughts or questions or, you know, areas do you think that this commission should be leading to us? I'm Meredith. A number of years ago, I went on a tour of the wastewater treatment plant that was extremely educational. And I would suggest that that be promoted as just an educational and an awareness to our, the taxpayers of Moosey River because that really helped me realize what was going into the system. And one thing that was stressed during that tour was the disposable, supposedly disposable wipes that were clogging up our pipes and our equipment and that if they just stopped using that that would actually save taxpayer money. And I just thought that was something that everybody should know about. So what you were saying about just education is letting us know what the status is is so important, especially as a taxpayer. You know, I approve, I voted for the upgrades because I could see that it was really necessary apparently there's more upgrades that were needed. I don't know if we have money for it yet, but yeah, it's so important to protect that infrastructure. You know, we don't know all the ins and outs, but I mean it's important to protect it. And I think the dog river idea of having like a settling area, a floodplain area, I mean it makes total sense. If you just look down from the highway of the plant and you see this field that's being used as grass and dog poop, a lot of dog poop out there. I mean it's really important to have that ground up and lots of plants, lots of trees, willows, whatever that could really help. And the tree board would help in planting those trees. That's great. One other idea could also be to look at, I'm sure we're not the first community that's had to deal with this, but to look at other ways wastewater facilities have been protected in other parts of the state or in other states. Like I don't know, do they have like a floodgate that they put down in front of certain areas? Are there like, you know, retent like, what's the stormwater look like in the area? You know, I just would look at other models that come up. Well I mean it's just a continuation of, I think we were asked to suggest what the commission should do. Yeah. But I think that part of that is promoting the engagement of the community in the system. The engagement, I understand. In the institution. Because for example, like the separation of stormwater, like I understand that's in process. It's a very slow process of separating stormwater into water. Yeah. It's on its way. It's land. It's going. But it can't all be accomplished in one day. Yeah. But it has a very significant correlation to like the flow of water and other tools that can be used in the emergency situation. Right. So I think, you know, tours of the plan, like elementary school education. Sort of some buy into this infrastructure so that people understand what it is when we're talking about it. And that there would be community support around the decision process to protect the systems in general. So that's not really, well, I mean, it's really like bringing the public into the process. Which is challenging when the city already provides like extensive notes, notifications. There are websites. There are updates. There's tons of information there that have enticing people to use it. It's not really hot topic, you know, yourself. This is probably the hottest it's ever been. It's in this very moment. But, you know, it's really important. Like if that had been inundated with water, it would have been terrible if it had such a big problem. How close are we to separating the two systems? Like 20 years or something. Seems like it's been happening. It's been working on for the last 30 years. Yeah. We're doing like one five at a time. Right. There are two major, well, we're doing states here right now. It's a separation project, so I'm sorry. And these states are eating the time. Those are the kind of the last two big ones other than Cliffs Street. Which is really difficult. But that'll make a real big difference to everybody. Yeah. That's a massive amount of water. Yeah. So will that water go into the Manuski Directly then? Well, yeah. Well, there is pre-treatment requirements now in some water. So at least some level of treatment. It's not on vortex separators. It's like a silk separator. It can take out some of the solids before it goes through. But it won't be treated to the level it is upon. No. You won't get the gasoline and all the toxins that are on the roads. It's much less. Much less. Much less. Much less. That's sad. So one other thing we're supposed to be considering in this conversation are just what resources do we think will be needed as the commission considers these issues? Maybe this is an answer to that. But I think somewhere in this area that talks about this assessment, I would think that we need a good place to start. Yeah. We're going to say the state and the risk assessment. Yeah. We've got that right. Doesn't it have any major resources? Yeah. Do we have a risk assessment around flooding in the wastewater plant already? Yeah. So when we get the last upgrade, we have to work through with the clean permitting process. And basically all the equipment that is replaced is evaluated for being able to elevate it and flood through it. There is a flood with the submarine door on one of the access to the water and access orders. Well, the formal flood risk assessment has been done, but the project included a lot of flood risk requirements. So one thing we need to look at that as a resource in doing any type of risk assessment. Yes. Yeah. So we're not redoing any of the work. What about like that settling pond that's out in the parking lot by the insurance company? There's like these ponds and up ponds. There's areas, low areas where the water goes into, and then it gets absorbed slowly. What about looking at that kind of thing all over the city, trying to build more of those things for the storm water runoff? Selling ponds or storm water. Or whatever they're called. They're like little gardens, white gardens. Like one by the SBCU, there's a really nice one right there, but building more of those around the city. Yeah, I think that's a question of like, can we remove some out of concrete, which is really the worst. It's the worst. And then replace it with some more green spaces. Or green pavement that has holes in it, so it goes down into the soil. It's just allowing more of the water to get into the ground. Yeah. And not just run all over the place. Yeah. That's great. Pretty good point. Yeah. There's also hazard mitigation grant programs. So the city is kind of doing a scoping study right now to elevate the water road through HMGP to see if it's an optimal project. So that has basically access to the living area. It's a wall of the best of land. And the last two big floods was like the most important. Oh, really? So one of the things the city's looking at already is just, is there a way to elevate that? How does that impact the floodway? Yeah, expand or elevate. Yeah. Really raising the elevation. Okay. It does create a whole thing. So you're looking down on the highway at that point? Yeah. So that's one thing that's already in the works. Yeah. And that's the resources that your program deals with. And I guess one question I just have there is, if we are raising up that road and having that wall act of loving, does it then cause worse flooding for downtown or just somewhere else? I don't know. Downstream. Yeah. I guess that would be the question. Because the dog river flows, no, it flows the other direction. Is that? No, they come together at this point. Yeah, they come. Right. Right. So then it's coming right there. Yeah. Right there. I'd say that with just kind of the lay of land there and where the ledge starts and stops, if the road active as a levy to protect, it would protect also our public works facility with all our trucks and vehicles in our future. Also critical access. But it's really a fairly small piece of kind of a horseshoe shaped piece of real estate. So we wouldn't be taking away that much floodplain by creating that levy. And I for one, and really, and my interest I work in the city in different capacity, sustainability and facilities, coordinated direct and public works. But I'm in support of, in addition to allowing the floodplain to do its job, also having an engineering solution that and an engineering solution to me provides a benefit of being built to a fixed elevation where both of these two events that almost over top. And then we did the plant where my understanding is almost exactly the elevation of an under year flood. Right? No. So we know the elevation that we're at right now and to plan ahead, if we go a couple feet higher or three feet higher or whatever, we've got a fixed elevation. Expanding the floodplain, it's hard to quantify what effect that's going to have on how the flood waters interact with our treatment plan. Well, someone can do it. And that would be a question for a river engineer or wetlands person or somebody like that. So mitigate bad stream impacts by removing the volume of soil that's on set and then it's blocked from all over the floor. Right, right. You can actually create the same volume that you're displacing the river. Uh huh. Yeah. So what are the trade-offs there to get the water and somewhere else, if not that spot? But I think one thing are we have money as a state and the feds for buyouts too. So are there also properties that were flooded that we should be buying out upstream to mitigate impacts downstream? From the dock? Yeah, from the dock. Yeah. I mean, I would say the same thing is true for any of the rivers, honestly, because all three are challenges for us. But I just said at the time when we got to the thoughts. Well, it's interesting because, you know, it's already been taken or is in process nearly every point, you know, the city should act now to improve the benefits they're evaluating the possibility to raise the road, which also touches on funding agencies, right, accessing the funds that could potentially afford that activity. Risk assessment I mentioned in the last round of upgrades, there was an aspect of risk assessment. There is a capital improvement plan. The facility itself seems not to be lacking in its capacity. Is that correct? I mean, this is about protecting its ability but it's operating according to and contingency plans should the facility fail during the future. Yeah, what is that plan? And it sounds like you talked about, you know, you enacted some of these plans already, removing some of the treatment apparatus to prevent loss, shifting water, releasing some untreated water to a different facility, but also, you know, got a submarine. So that's part of it. Yeah. So in a way, I almost wonder, like, how can we be helpful in so much is underpaid. It's raising water for you. Well, and I should pass this around because this is a, if you want to if you want to continue this conversation as a commission is pulled together if you would like to either be notified or, you know, pulled in to the conversation and you should sign up here just on wastewater. There'll be other opportunities too, but this sign up sheet would be given to the commission. So good for you to pass it around or sign up if you want to continue being paid. I think it should be noted that the plan provides a regional resource. So I think it's about a third of every septic system in the state as well as in Exxon and New Hampshire and those dates all go from Monday to the time when people are not on the municipal system we thought to think of most of all, essentially, parts of North America, all of them are not there. Is that an income stream for us? It is an income stream. But it's also regional service. There's not a lot of clients that are set up. It's also wind river ways. So wind river is one of the contractors that does the work. So they bring waste to us. So if the plan went down, there would be an impact on the system on the later part for most of all. Maybe the only thing we can bring that's really actionable and vital is that public engagement and education come through. Well, and strategies around protecting it from the water getting to it. Yeah. Which I think we have a bunch that we've listed. Like, you know, levees, additional green spaces, buyouts, flood doors or gates. If you have a dike, the road dike around here, the only place that your water is going to come from is just really directly on it or some of those storm water systems that have been disconnected here. We did have water in the facility on a street drainage flood. Back up? Yeah. It couldn't get to the river so it started running into the pool. Well, that's simply something to add to the list then. Look at that drainage system. I make sure there's like an alternate route or like there's some where else, if that happens then it's not coming right. Like is there a detour for it somewhere? It's probably hard to quantify, but also building floor grains after the water level rises above those floor grains that may or may not be connected to the sea. Looking very right to that. Allowing storm water into the... Yeah, throughout the city. We've done new green studies. There's a collection system that's made out of play pipes. Primarily. I'm going to go in the estates. When the water comes up, it gets into the sewage system. And those are big research issues that we don't really know about. Six or something. Yeah. What about on-site store? Like so if you have the levy and you deal with this like backup issue that we were just talking about, you know what I mean? It's this horseshoe shaped property. It's just there. Does it also need to have, I guess on-site storm water for anything that's just coming straight down onto it to be managed? Like we get nine inches in eight hours of rain or something. Do you need on-site storm water that you don't have currently? It's all the storm systems and then the plant facility runs through the plant. In case it's just something that's required. Okay. Okay. You know, is the wastewater treatment plant protected other communities? Like, you know, I don't know what Waterbury did during their big hurricanes. I mean, they were out for a long time in the past. I mean, there must be other solutions and other communities in Vermont that can be successful. And they looked into any of these other communities and how they dealt with this. I mean, it can't be the only level it's at. I don't know. I have not reached out to the communities in order to rebuild more things. But yeah, that's a good idea. So going on sort of a list-to-set, if you had a whole bunch of rain the nine inches and eight hours, if you had a sort of big stormwater drain, right, somewhere in the low part of the place to go to the river, would you get rid of some of the excess water that's theoretically not bad? I mean, except for the clothes on the wheel but it's right on there. It just goes out of the plan. Yeah, potentially. I mean, we would have to have it like at some sort of valve where you flipped it from one to the plan because that's a regular requirement to have any spills contained in the treated so you'd have to, during a flood event, you know, change the valve over the river for water to your connection. But it's certainly possible. In terms of size and scale, again, off-the-top communities have a similar scope and scale of recent virtue in the city. I can't believe that. In various cities, the closest known to Northview, St. John's Bay, I think, did get an extra bed of blood and, of course, it's water very attractive to them. I'm not sure. Waterberries worked for 10 years since Irene to do something with culverts and so forth. I read in the paper that it didn't, it had some impact this past, but not like Irene did. They did stuff for 10 years, took them 10 years to get things that are a little bit better for them, I think. I've been to Waterberry recently and it looks so much better than I'm not sure. And remember, Irene was really bad in Waterberry. It was terrible. Well, thank you for taking the time to have this conversation. We're going back to the big group.