 Older person Sorensen is present. Older person Decker is present. Older person's Donahue, Ackley and Feldy are online as well. First order of business is a All right. First order of business is approval of the minutes from our last meeting in December 30th. Is there such motion to approve the minutes? Motion to approve. Second. All right. All second. Any discussion on the minutes? Seeing none. All those in favor approving the minutes please say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. Those minutes are approved. First item on the agenda 3.1 discussion of possible action regarding the request of alcohol beverage operating license application number 3461 for the Harbor Center Marina City Attorney. Do you want to start this one? I see Mr. Bauer is here so if you have any questions for him you can ask them. Technically this licensee is now just became in violation of the continuation of business ordinance but they applied for this before that happened so we're good. You are under our ordinance able to prohibit cause shown grant a one-time extension of the license so that they're not in violation of that continuation business ordinance. Just to give you a little bit of background. Typically you've done that for 30, 60, 90 days that's been kind of typical. It could be longer the most that you would be able to do here is about five and a half months basically until the end of the licensing period on June 30th. And what I would suggest is that you may want to ask Mr. Bauer on behalf of the licensee sort of when they will definitely be operating. You probably don't want to grant a period of time and then have it turn out that they're not going to be open by that time so you want to find out about that and then determine whether you think that's reasonable and if it is you can grant it and if not you can have that discussion as well. A couple things that are that can be taken into account. One thing that we often talk about in these situations is whether there are other people waiting for this or any other license. There is actually one available license out there it just became available. So even if this one were to be postponed there is one other one out there available to be applied for it. And we don't know at this point whether there's a lot of people clamoring for that because it just just happened. There is a list of the clerk's office but as you know from previous times a lot of times just because somebody's on the list doesn't mean they're actually actively trying to get get the license now that it usually means that they're interested in finding out so that if whatever they've got in the works is close enough they can deal with it. So that is a relevant factor and is a little bit different than perhaps the last time we dealt with a couple of these that we have a little more flexibility right now than we have to do but then we haven't asked. I'll kind of leave it there. You can ask Mr. Bauer any questions or if you have any questions for me I can answer them or for Julie as well. Okay. Matt do you have anything you want to add? Sure yeah we only got approval from the committee mid-July. We just started the renovation series then it took us a little longer so we're looking to extend it to about mid-March to early April. April 1st is what we requested. This puts the opening day a little bit more in line with our opening of our voting season which will guarantee the more put traffic down here and better traffic in presence. Awesome. Mary Lynn I see you have a question. I guess and I would ask for Chuck's guidance on this. It seems to me that if we it would be sensible for us to extend this to the maximum time I sincerely doubt that well certainly bars are opening and people are in them but just to extend maximum flexibility on this particular site it would be my intention to move to extend it to the end of the licensing period unless you think that there is some reason not to do that. Attorney Adams? Yeah it's really up to you. If you're extended to June 30 that's entirely fine. If that's what you believe is the best there's no reason there's no legal reason not to do that. So committee members it's going to be my intention to move that and I just think you know this is a really hard time to be opening a business and I think this just offers maximum flexibility and really I'm at this point does not cause harm so I'm going to move to extend this license to June 30th 2021. There's been a motion all second. There's been a motion by Mary Lynn second by Dean. Dean you had a question? I just not a really a question I just I concur completely I think at this time with the the times the way we are in I think it's prudent to go through the maximum just to give them the most flexibility I mean if they can open earlier fine then they can but this way it gives them the full amount of time. Any other questions from anybody? Matt you good with that? Yes I appreciate it thank you. Awesome all right any further discussion seeing none all those in favor? Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye that's been approved thanks Matt. All right moving along yeah 3.2 RO number 86 2021 submitting various license applications for the period ending December 30th 2020 June 30th 2022 taxicab license application number 3387 city attorney okay this yes we're here for a hearing uh I can't see who's in the council chambers is Cheyenne live present? There's some outside is is does Cheyenne? Is it Cheyenne? I don't know who's out there. If she's not here no okay so we'll we'll proceed without her but that does make the hearing somewhat more simple you can just simply base it on the information that's adduced here I assume that Lieutenant Stelter is in the in the council chambers so perhaps Lieutenant Stelter if you could go to a mic and I'll just ask you a few basic questions either way his mic is not on but yeah it's on Ron okay it looks like it wasn't okay um so uh Lieutenant Stelter um you're familiar with the applicant on non taxicab driver's license 3387 Cheyenne lip yes and this is a new taxicab driver's license application not a renewal correct correct and the recommendation of the police department and really of staff was to deny this license is that correct that is correct now uh there were um it's fair to say that there there are really two bases uh for denying the license uh record her record of violations related to the license activity and her record as an habitual law offender is that correct that is correct so we're going to talk first of all about her record of violations related to the license activity um and and there's really two types of those uh uh of violations as well correct those specific to driving and those related to drug trafficking concerns is that correct yes and why why would concerns about drug trafficking um be a concern for a taxicab driver's license applicant um with my experience as a investigator with the street crimes units supervising street crimes units and as an investigator and supervisor with the Sheboyin county drug unit otherwise known as the multi-jurisdictional enforcement group um we have targeted um known drug dealers that we're using taxi services to transport drugs while they conduct their daily work um we've also received credible intelligence um that drug dealers use the taxicabs to move their product and so specific to drug trafficking concerns um uh Ms. Lipp has uh six uh different misdemeanor felony uh convictions that relate to those concerns is that correct that's correct so there's a 2015 misdemeanor possession of drug paraphernalia from 2015 cm 71 is that correct yes and then there is a uh 2016 felony possession with intent to deliver uh from 2016 CF 21 that also came with a misdemeanor conviction for possession of drug paraphernalia correct yes there is also a 2016 uh conviction in 2016 CF 69 for misdemeanor possession of illegally obtained prescriptions as a party to the crime is that correct that is correct and then in 2019 there were two convictions uh are actually three uh so i counted wrong um that all came out of case 2019 CF 391 a misdemeanor possession of drug paraphernalia in two counts of conviction for possession of cocaine is that correct that is correct and in addition uh she does remain on uh probation on on one of those um convictions of misdemeanor possession of cocaine is that correct yes specific to driving there are an additional five convictions uh of concerned is that is that fair to say yes in order of age so starting with the oldest first uh in 2011 uh she was convicted of an operating well intoxicated and open intoxicated motor vehicle absolute sobriety and driving without a license is that correct yes in 2015 in case number 2015 cm 44 she was convicted of uh owi or operating well intoxicated related misdemeanor operating after revocation is that correct yes in 2017 uh in uh 2017 tr 2686 she was convicted of speeding is that correct correct uh in case 2017 cp 140 also in 2017 she was convicted of driving without a license correct correct and and a municipal court case from 2019 she was convicted of improper stop at a sign is that correct that is correct additionally there are five other uh criminal charges uh that showed her to be a habitual law violator is that correct yes and in this case you chose only to consider um criminal charges and not consider violations that are non-criminal for this particular um uh concern is that correct that is correct and these convictions are uh three convictions for misdemeanor bail jumping out of a single case in 2015 a 2016 felony bail jumping uh a 2020 misdemeanor bail jumping as a repeater a 2020 misdemeanor disorderly conduct with the use of dangerous weapon and a 2020 misdemeanor battery is that correct it is correct and so given all of those concerns you are recommending that the license be uh the license application be denied is that correct yes no other questions i'll leave into the committee to make whatever motion they feel appropriate all right based on that information is there a motion to deny make motion to deny second motion by dean second by mary lin any further discussion on this item seeing none all those in favor of denying the application based on the evidence please state aye aye aye anyone opposed chair votes aye all right moving along 4.1 hearing on do we got to approve the remaining licenses on that are we good at that we'll do that at the end just because nobody else is waiting on that and we might as well get mr shelton's matter going okay 4.1 hearing on the appeal of chad shelton's finding dogs to be dangerous vicious animals pursuant to section 18-47 i-2 of the shabuigan municipal code city attorney do you want to start this off or bill adams or i'll just start it out with as sort of an explanation of what's happening uh so in this case first of all uh as as is our practice on um these dangerous dog and vicious dog matters i am not representing the police department i'm representing you as the committee or as the council uh and the police department has chosen to represent itself in presenting this matter for you my understanding is mr shelton is also present in the council chambers and he is representing himself with regard to these animals mr shelton has appealed the finding of the chief of police that his dogs cronus and odysseus are vicious and or dangerous if i recall correctly cronus is the one that was declared vicious and odysseus was declared dangerous and i'm certain that as part of the uh the case there will be some testimony regarding that but that's just sort of the basic beginning of this um this this uh is an appeal uh of the chief's determination and so the chief's determination is considered an initial determination the spd um and i believe lieutenant adams will be handling uh this matter on behalf of the chief as the chief's designate they'll present that initial determination and the reasoning for it uh by a testimony uh and then after that it will be mr shelton's turn to present his case as to uh why he's appealing it and why he believes uh you as a committee should overturn uh that finding the parties will be able to uh present any evidence typically what we do is we'll have a opening statement from uh from the police department followed by an opening statement by uh mr shelton and then we'll proceed with uh the police department's case followed by mr shelton's case followed by some closing statements by the parties if if they wish um in this case though mr shelton uh is appealing and so he does hold the burden of proof normally that would mean that he would present his evidence first but um because we do need to have a presentation of you know what what the uh charges that led to the um hearing are we will have the police department go first uh in this particular case and mr shelton will have the opportunity to uh respond rules of evidence aren't in effect so you know things that we deal with in court like you know who's who's cross examining and all those things and what can come in at what time they don't apply here so there's no disadvantage to one or the other by doing it that way uh committee should consider only uh relevant evidence in deciding whether the dog the respective dogs are either vicious uh as defined in the ordinance or or dangerous i can present to you uh what the law is if you would like me to do that ahead of i mean i'm seeing some nods so uh vicious dogs are considered vicious if they do any of the following first cause a serious injury to or kill a person or domestic animal second cause an injury by biting a person in the face or neck third attack a person in such manner as to require defensive action to prevent bodily injury or property damage when the person is conducting themselves peacefully and lawfully on property other than that of the owner of the attacking dog fourth uh if the dog attacked a person in such a manner as to result in property damage or an injury to the person when that person is uh conducting themselves peacefully and lawfully on property other than that of the owner of the attacking dog fifth attack without provocation another animal or foul on property other than that of the owner attacking dog it can also be considered vicious if the dog is owned harbored or trained primarily uh or in part for the purpose of fighting if it has been previously found to be vicious in a trial on the charge violating or vicious dog ordinance or if it has been declared to be vicious in another municipality county or state i don't think either of those three is in in uh is at issue today have to dangerous dogs uh which is a lower uh standard uh here a dog is considered dangerous there there are if it did any of the following seven things first it caused injury to a person or domestic animal less to fear than a serious injury second chased or attacked any human or domestic animal without provocation third demonstrated an approach or an apparent attitude of attack towards any human or animal in a menacing fashion without provocation fourth demonstrated a trait or characteristic for a generally known reputation for being dangerous fifth demonstrated a known propensity tendency or disposition to attack or cause injury to or otherwise threaten the safety of humans or other domestic pets or animals without provocation sixth demonstrated any other behavior which consists of which constitutes a threat of bodily harm to a person when that person is conducting him or herself peacefully and lawfully uh in seventh if it has run at large three or more times in any 12 month period it can also be considered dangerous if it's been declared dangerous by a court in a trial or if it's declared dangerous in another municipality county or state again i don't think either of those that issue here a couple things that you should also know about dangerous dogs there are even if it meets uh those initial seven uh one one of those seven things that we need to meet a dog cannot be considered dangerous despite those things solely because of its breed solely because it's attacked or minister person or animal in order to defend its owner or caretaker or another person or animal it's young or it's food from a trespasser or an attack or solely because it attacked or minister person or animal in order to defend itself against a person or animal or a trespasser that has provoked tormented or abused it uh there is also a provision uh that won't really be in i don't think it's going to be at issue here um dangerous a dog that's been declared to be dangerous that it's it's for a three-year period and it would have to be re-op so after three years if it doesn't do anything uh that evinces that it's uh dangerous that that is done in three years there also can be it can be done after six months if the owner can prove that dog and its owner have completed the canine good citizen program sponsored by the american kennel club and provided evidence of that police department so that's that's kind of a lie i know there's a lot there and um again you know there there'll be some opportunity after the the police department and mr. sheldon have made their cases uh for questions uh either um you know of me at you know representing you or perhaps of the parties as well uh if need be uh at this point i think we're ready to proceed unless any of the members of the committee have questions about procedure before we begin any initial questions for city attorney adams all right we'll head over to the pd for their opening statements turn that on for now it is i don't have to do anything it's on yep all right bear with me i think i have to share my screen hey mike can you come here and help me a second it's not sharing it the way i expected right but i i thought it would fill the in a alt tab doesn't seem to work when i'm in this mode there you go and everything okay did it go to the this method is a little new to me i appreciate the time of the committee i want to just give a little quick context to today's hearing chronus was first declared dangerous on march 4th 2019 is there anything i need to do about that echo he was then declared vicious on march 20th 2020 mr. sheldon appealed that vicious declaration and this committee listened to testimony last april 29 at that hearing mr sheldon testified that the most serious dog bite under consideration was actually caused by a different dog persephony as a result chief domagalski moved to rescind the vicious dog declaration on chronus and revert him back to the dangerous dog designation and this information was communicated clearly to mr. sheldon by chief domagalski as well as attorney adams at that hearing i would add that the difficulty in identifying the correct responsible dog in that case was a direct result of mr. sheldon's complete failure to cooperate with the investigation chronus was again declared vicious on november 3 2020 and odysseus was declared dangerous that same day november 3 2020 like if you want to give the first four exhibits i have the vicious dog declaration for chronus the dangerous dog declaration for odysseus the return of unclaimed certified mail and mr. sheldon's letter appealing the dangerous and vicious dog declarations just so you can see them so this is the declaration for chronus for odysseus now we're required to serve that by certified mail which went out november 4 mr. sheldon refused to accept that mail refused to go to the post office to pick it up we attempted personal service at his door which is also acceptable on multiple occasions and he refused to answer the door finally officer hubricks posted the notice to mr. sheldon's door on november 27th and we were able to confirm by phone that mr. sheldon had in fact received it on december 8th we received his request for appeal on december 24th so i i believe being very generous he did just meet the 30-day requirement so we then sent him notice of this hearing and he is here today now the justification for declaring chronus as a vicious dog is this july 28 2015 chronus bit edward fighter causing serious injury december 2nd 2018 chronus bit joseph winkler causing serious injury december 15th 2018 chronus again bit joseph winkler requiring him to take defensive action to prevent bodily injury the bite did cause property damage to his jacket march 2nd 2019 chronus bit elissa urada causing injury and requiring her to take defensive action to prevent further bodily injury september 30 2020 chronus chased lidarius wimberley down the street in an aggressive manner without provocation demonstrating an apparent attitude of attack the justification for declaring odysseus as dangerous as this september 9 2020 odysseus chased lidarius wimberley down the street in an aggressive manner without provocation demonstrating an apparent attitude of attack july 30 2020 mr. sheldon threatened to sick his dogs which included chronus and ediceus on two people attempting to leave the upper apartment of his residents they could hear the dogs barking and believed they had a disposition to attack you will hear testimony from mr. sheldon's neighbors of additional aggressive acts by his dogs that were not reported to the police in addition to all of this chronus has been declared dangerous for nearly two years but mr. sheldon has still not complied with the requirements of the dangerous dog ordinance for these reasons i would ask that you uphold the police department's decision to declare chronus as vicious and odysseus as dangerous that's it for my opening statement this is all a complete waste of everyone's time and taxpayer dollars chief domigalski is not a trained animal expert in any capacity he does not have training in dog behavioralism dog training nor dog rehabilitation it's funny that one of the requirements for being able to have your dog not deemed dangerous is to have them complete the canine good citizenship test because i am one of the few people in shabuigan county authorized by the american kennel club to put a dog through the canine good citizenship test and certify them as cgc compliant i have given out several cgc certifications to dogs that i have trained through the akc and i only didn't do it for my own dogs which are obviously cgc compliant because i felt like that was a bit conceited to just go ahead and issue my dogs certifications but that was well within my purview to do my dogs have been trained to the standards of cgc i have brought them here today so that everybody can both see for their own eyes and if you're willing come up and meet my dogs and see that they are not dangerous i have several officers who have entered my home and interacted with my dogs including officer inger who although the police department would never allow him to testify on my behalf has many times interacted with me and my dogs and confirmed that they are not dangerous or vicious in any way i also have video of officer hubricks who is here interacting with both of my dogs at once off leash no muzzles no protective training devices whatsoever freely interacting with them in my hallway in full uniform and and nothing about his demeanor showed that he was scared i asked him several times if he felt threatened his response was no not with you here i'm sorry but a dangerous or vicious dog would need to be physically controlled in order to keep them safe even with the owner there they're not just going to all of a sudden not be dangerous because the owner is there they will be dangerous or vicious at all times if they are dangerous or vicious the police department sadly lacks training when it comes to canines and unfortunately that leads to a lot of bad decisions on their part i wish i wish that they had the kind of expert expert training that they need to be able to make these determinations i wish that they had a canine expert on their staff to be able to come and evaluate dogs and make these determinations so that we didn't have to waste all of your time today and taxpayer dollars trying to figure out whether a puppy who's too dumb to know how to bite and a dog who's too well trained to ever bite anyone is dangerous or vicious that's all right thank you all right now we'll go to the presentation uh component mr sheldon if you'd like to stay at the podium i have some questions for you first please we should or shouldn't we should okay so swear i'm in right now all right mr sheldon i'm swearing you in as a witness can you please raise your right hand or repeat after me do you swear to tell the whole truth the truth the whole truth so help you god i swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me god thank you we'll get it mr sheldon i understand you're the property manager of 1026 swift avenue is that correct yes sir do you own the property uh it's a rent to own arrangement with uh the property owner okay you don't currently i don't currently have the title no okay my understanding is you live in the lower and tenants generally live in the upper correct okay how many dogs do you own three three okay um i have items six through nine that i would like to present their photos of your dogs from from last year so correct me if these are not correct what is the name of is this one of your dogs yes sir what's this dog's name irani irani do you still own irani i do okay and number seven that is ria ria do you own ria still i do not you do not okay and this dog cronies that's cronies who's right behind you there that is cronies who is right here and finally odysseus odysseus okay so ria is no longer owned the other three and there's no other dogs correct are the three dogs that you have are they currently licensed they are not okay cronies was declared dangerous march 4th 2019 is he registered with the police department as a dangerous dog he is not okay what i'd like to do now i understand as the property manager you have some rules for your tenants that are supposed to follow with respect to your dogs yes sir and we actually heard this i can get there at the meeting last year and i'm just going to play a short excerpt from that okay how do i turn it back on i'll need i'll need volume for a couple of things here i need like full-time it support you know this mic okay okay okay yeah you can otherwise it's right here so if i just toggle that on yep just do it when you're done okay well we can hear it just open it from the slideshow again like all 91 uh someone was on the phone on 911 that has a pretty severe injury and so you would identify that what's been marked as item 11 as Deborah Barry's leg yes yes yeah and you would say that that's a serious injury but serious injury and so you would identify that what's been marked as as item 11 as Deborah Barry's leg yes yeah and you would say that that's a serious injury serious enough can can you describe to me um essentially um the exit of how people who are the tenants in the upper would get out of your residence they come down the stairs and through the back hall and so there's a common hallway there it's a common hallway do you have any rules for them about when they can exit their residence and when they can't yes yeah tell me about that we have made it very clear to them that if they see the back door open that we likely have the dogs out and that they just need to holler and let us know that they need to get through and we bring the dogs in so if somebody walks out of that back door on the second level can can they see from there whether the dogs are are in or out yes so if the dogs are at the bottom of the stairway there they they can see clearly that the dogs are there they would know yes at all times yes in fact they've lived there for over a year and this is the only incident that happened because they did not follow the instructions there we go mr. Sheldon are those rules still in place uh no they're not no okay is there any reason you changed to those rules yes because i built a fence okay but this these were rules for the interaction of people inside the house were they not no okay they were they rules so that they could exit the house in order to cross through the yard and not have to feel frightened because they have made it clear that they are scared of dogs in general and i have done things to accommodate them so that they don't have to interact with the dogs okay the context of that conversation was the injury to devra berry yes and who was injured where in the hallway uh yeah on the stairwell correct i wouldn't know i was in bed with cronus at the time as i have told you guys many times is this the incident where you grabbed a towel and assisted her you applied pressure to the wound yes sir okay where was she when you did that she was sitting on the stairs okay all right so these rules would not have helped her anyway what do you mean well you said of course they would have the interaction was described to me as she came bombing down the stairs drunk at some time in the morning opened the door at the same time that my wife was coming through with persephone and instead of shutting the door turned around screaming and got bit okay and it was a result of not following the rules you believe it was a result of not checking to see if the door was open before just coming out into the hall okay did did those rules apply to all of your dogs or did you did it only apply to certain dogs that perhaps were more dangerous as i have informed the police department on many occasions my profession before i came down with stage four metastatic colon cancer was as a dog trainer specifically dog evaluation and rehabilitation of aggressive dogs i have had many aggressive dogs in my home throughout the years in order to try and help the citizens of sheboygan county by rehabilitating the dogs that have otherwise shown aggression bitten etc i have done dozens of rehabilitations here in sheboygan county i have kept more people safe than i can imagine so my question is i had an aggressive dog in my home at that time persephone as i have informed you guys many times persephone was a tough nut to crack and i was trying my hardest to save that dog's life and in order to try and keep her and other people from interacting i had rules in order to make sure that nobody got hurt so my question is did those rules apply to only when persephone was outside or to all the dogs in order to not make people who don't own my dogs try to know which dogs are which it just applied to any of the dogs so that they didn't have to sit there and try and identify my dogs but no the rules were to keep people safe from the dog who was aggressive and where the are the tenants supposed to check before they exit their apartment the apartment door or which door are they supposed to check at the bottom of the stairs if they open the door and see that the door is open all they have to do is say hey we're trying to get through and then we would have taken the dogs in instead of opening the door and seeing that the door was open she just came bombing out okay i can see if i can play another video here so you might want to mute me is that your upper apartment yes sir so you can see when you exit the upper apartment you go down a few stairs you make a 90 degree turn go down further then there's another door that opens into a common foyer area is that the door they're supposed to check at the bottom of the stairs there when you open the door you can see whether or not the back door is open okay and what we're looking at right now is the door to your apartment correct yes okay this video is from that very day when the officers were trying to ascertain the identity of which dog was involved in this bite and so i'm just going to play the remainder of this you can turn this off i'm sorry is there a purpose to showing me half naked we'll do that and you can go to court so the reason i showed that video the officers were investigating a very serious dog bite and required that we know which dog bit Deborah Berry so that we could get the proper quarantine done and this is indicative of the type of cooperation we frequently get when we're investigating incidents with mr. Shelton's dogs in the video he did not answer her questions and say that i was asleep and did not know what happened what further cooperation do you want from someone who doesn't have any information i told her exactly what i knew i was asleep in my bed with cronies by the time i woke up all of the dogs were inside the house that is all i knew okay mr. Shelton nothing more you can speak later when you give your presentation i'll ask a question then you can answer otherwise just wait for your statement at the end if you're going to try and paint me in an uncooperative light then we're going to tell the truth about how i told her everything that i knew so you heard i'll let the video speak for itself what he told her implying that uh none of his dogs were likely involved it wasn't until the hearing here that he claimed that Persephone was involved and that is why we reversed the vicious dog declaration at that time in addition to that mr. Shelton was issued two citations for refusing to comply with a quarantine order and he in fact was found guilty of those these would be items 12 and 13 mr. Shelton you can sit down the next witness i'd like to call is lisa and marik from the shiboy and county humane society please raise your right hand and then please state your name lisa marik all right do you sort of tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god i do all right thank you thank you for coming today i appreciate it you're welcome can you tell us what your role is at the humane society sure i'm the operations manager okay in that capacity are you familiar with a black cane corso dog named cronos belonging to chad shelton which is actually right behind you i am okay um how now the humane society housed him for a period of time last year correct correct can you tell us when it was april 16th through may 6th of 2020 now i understand that you you personally own some large mastiffs or large dogs i do english mastiffs okay i'm not an expert but you're you're not intimidated by large dogs right okay that being said did cronos present any challenges to you or your staff while you're housing him he did he was very aggressive in the kennel uh my staff was not able to bring him in and out he was growling bearing teeth and um we had to make special accommodations to be able to bring him in and out so he could get outside okay like what were some of the safety measures you had to uh i had about three to four staff uh they would be behind gates uh because we weren't able to leash him we had to set up different barriers throughout our hallways to be able to guide him outside into a gated kennel okay was he allowed to be with any other dogs no and why is that we were just holding him so it was he was in our property so we weren't going to put him with any other dogs did you have concerns of the safety of other dogs should he be with them he was generally outside by himself when we would do our little um path through the shelter so he was by himself in an outdoor run okay in your opinion does cronos present a danger to the neighborhood where he lives i wouldn't trust him uh in the shelter capacity uh he would not be an adoption candidate he would not be an adoption candidate correct and why is that unpredictable and in a dangerous way is that what that means yes okay a liability for us if we would adopt him out is it safe to say that your job um has you working with dogs any professional capacity yes okay those are all the questions i have for you um i'm not sure if chuck can give guidance i'd like some of my witnesses to be able to leave if they're done so i don't know if chad needs to be able to ask her questions rather than wait for the end since he'll present his testimony later we'll give him the opportunity to do that but he should be able to cross examine your witness now would you like to ask her any questions should should mr. shelton ask them from where i'm standing i don't know if there are other other microphones that he otherwise you can just come right here that's fine you'll have to forgive me your name was lisa what maric mars maric maric okay and uh lisa as i am unfamiliar with you i'm just gonna ask you some questions i don't mean to offend you in any way i'm just trying to ascertain what your expertise is what formal training do you have in dog behavioralism or training i do not zero years of training in either evaluating a dog for behavioral issues or in training a dog that has behavioral issues right i have 1015 years of working in shelter okay and working with different training groups that have come in i want to be clear that i applaud you for working with dogs and everything that you're done that you've done and i have no disagreement with the fact that experience can be a powerful teacher however without the formal professional education on dog behavioralism you would agree that you are not an expert in dog behavioralism yes correct okay so that being said your opinion that you would not trust cronus is effectively an amateur opinion they were at my observations they're your observations as an amateur whereas although i applaud you for your years of experience in the shelter i have 15 years of training and experience as a dog evaluator and as a dog trainer so i happen to know something about dogs when they're put into kennels after being ripped away from their owners perhaps in your years of working at the kennel you have also experienced dogs who are nervous dogs who are scared and therefore dogs who exhibit behaviors that you might read as aggressive in the untrained eye but are actually the dog telling you that they are terrified that they don't know what's going on would you agree that it is possible that cronus was scared absolutely absolutely not all dogs react that way though either when they're scared not all dogs react that way every dog is a different case i know because i have evaluated and rehabilitated dozens of dogs and i am happy to let the owners know that most of the time what you think is aggression is simply behavioral issues that can be easily corrected and i would say that for someone who is not trained in how to properly rehabilitate a dog that it is very easy to confuse behaviors as aggression when it is merely an easily correctable matter of the situation i.e being scared in the kennel and needing to be comforted or you know other behavioral issues such as maybe they're a bit dominant you know in any case these can be read as aggression when in fact they're not now i will ask you one other thing mrs. merrick or mrs. merrick i don't mean to offend uh were you or were you not offered the ability to have myself and my wife come and help with cronus yes and i you were and what was your response to that offer for help while you were screaming at me over the phone no i was not trying to have a conversation with you i was not screaming at you until after your response one at a time please no answer i said melissa was more than welcome to come onto our property right your hostility was not welcome i did not display any hostility or raise my voice at all please let her finish until after you told me that only melissa would be welcome on please let her finish the conversation mr. sheldon please let her finish she's a witness right now she's answering your questions your time for the your time your time for the presentation is after you may resume answering the question so that conversation was ended with you because i did ask that melissa can't come in if she would be able to but your demeanor was not welcome in our shelter that was based on a conversation that you had with the police having never spoken to me prior i talked to you on the phone when we talked on the phone the only question was can melissa come in and i said yes me and my wife will come in to which your immediate response was melissa is welcome you are not welcome on the property there was not a chance for any hostility or raised voices prior to that therefore as you told me on the phone conversation all of your decision was based on a conversation that you had with the police department not based on any conversation that you had with me not based on any interaction that you had with me you refused help for a dog in your care based on a conversation that you had with the police department is that or is that not true that's not true when i asked for melissa you wouldn't let me talk to melissa and that's how that happened you said is melissa there i said yes she is right here with me you are on speakerphone that was my response and i said melissa can come in and i said we will be in and you weren't welcome i said so so how was that how was that based on anything that happened in that conversation you you're not an easy person to talk to so that's why melissa was able to deserve to go without proper care for three weeks because i'm not an easy person to talk to i'll acquiesce to that i'm not an easy person to talk to but you would refuse help for a dog that you have in your care for almost a month because someone is not easy to talk to i didn't refuse help i asked if melissa would come in you did refuse help i said we will come in and you said you are not welcome to i said either we're both coming in or neither of us are and you said then neither of you are welcome and if either of you show up we will call the police those were your exact words i offered so i wasn't you you offered and then quickly rescinded and said that even if melissa showed up alone that you would call the police and don't worry melissa will be testifying later as to what happened unless you'd like to cop to it right now she can testify excellent then i have no further questions thank you the next person i'd like to call is edward fighter he's actually joining us remotely mike i think is there any way i can get him to be up there i'm not sure i want to monkey around with this thing mr fighter are you online at all mike you want to raise kendra see if she's oh there we go mr fighter can you hear us yes i can all right i'm going to swear you in as a witness please raise your right hand do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth oh my god all right thank you hello mr fighter i appreciate you participating today i called you because i understand you were the victim of a dog bite in july of 2015 while living at 1506 south 13th street is that correct that's correct was that your residence at the time yes my understanding is that you lived in the upper apartment and chad shelton lived in the lower is that correct that's correct how long did you live there with mr shelton a couple of years before then i lived there 30 37 years before shelton okay would you please describe the dog bite incident that occurred on july 28th 2015 there was a really in the morning around seven o'clock or something like that and i walked outside to go to my car and uh melissa was in the backyard she had a dog on the leash and there were two other dogs uh cronus i think there was a big black one but the other dog was a tan colored dog that one was the name i didn't get to know well every when they the two dogs spotted me coming through the backyard cronus he took off running on while the other one followed and cronus jumped up and bit me in the back of the arm but the other one also jumped up that went and bite me so when that i went upstairs and and she got a hold of the dogs and took him into house and my daughter took me to the emergency room for dog bite what were your injuries as a result of that bite i had a couple of stitches in the arm and you were treated at the hospital for that were you treated at the hospital for that yes yes i was was that the only time mr shelton's dogs ever behaved aggressively i think they were a little more cautious after that but he had the trouble of coming and letting the dogs run loose in the back i never knew when they were out there we had a tree in the backyard i couldn't always tell that the dogs were further in the backyard or not so i'd come downstairs and i was very cautious every time i came down so it sounds like mr shelton i'm sorry mr shelton's dogs caused you some level of fear while you were living there that was the reason we moved that was the reason you moved yes okay a couple other reasons but i don't want to get into that i guess one last question did you do anything to provoke the dogs to attack you oh i was just coming around from the back my my doorway was on on the north side of the building and shelton's was on the south side and they were in the backyard and i couldn't i didn't see the dogs right away and till i got partway through shelton's side of the house where the sidewalk was and that's when the dogs spotted me and that's when the black one i think his name was cronus and uh he was the first one that got to me and uh melissa happened to have she hollered but but then it was too late already but she finally got the dogs away from me i went upstairs okay thank you mr fighter mr shelton do you have any questions for mr fighter mr fighter if you would just stay connected mr shelton has some questions for you okay mr figert you testified um both today and when giving your report to the police that both of the dogs came at you and that they both jumped up by you and that you had been bitten however uh i ask you is it at all possible that in the chaos and confusion of two dogs coming at you and jumping up on you that you were unaware of which one actually bit you and are only assuming that it was the large dog cronus when it could when it could have easily been rhea as well because cronus was the first dog that got to me that's where i bite occurred and yet in the report in the report you said that both of the dogs jumped up at you and you got bit not that cronus jumped up at you first and you got bit away away you don't twist things around here cronus was the first one that got to me the other one was flower yes they both ended up jumping on but cronus was the one that bit me but that's not what you said in your report in your report you said both dogs jumped up at you and you got bit cronus got to me first all right fair enough mr fighter thank you i appreciate your time kendra you can disconnect i would next like to call officer hubricks all right please state your name officer can't you rex all right please raise your right hand do you sort of tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god yes i do all right please proceed officer hubricks did you investigate mr fighter's dog bite complaint yes i did back in july of 2015 did you identify mr shelton as the owner of the dog that bit mr fighter yes i did did you identify the dog that bit mr fighter yes mr shelton initially said that the other dog was gone eventually after talking to him several times i was able he was able to admit to me that cronus was the other dog in question so so there were three dogs involved in this incident correct correct and and mr shelton gave you the identity of two dogs yes which dogs were those rea and irani rea in irani okay and then he said the third dog was at a friend's house somewhere else and he did not disclose what dog that was correct he initially did not okay eventually he told you though that that dog was in fact cronus yes okay when you told mr shelton that you were going to issue him a quarantine form for cronus what did he tell you well he was adamant that rea was the one that bit mr fighter i talked to mr fighter three times on that day mr fighter was adamant that the dog that bit him was the large black dog identified as cronus i told mr sheldon that if he wouldn't produce the other dog that i may have to quarantine both rea and cronus eventually mr sheldon conceded to quarantining only cronus okay so cronus is the dog that mr shelton quarantined yes and i would introduce item number 14 which is in fact the quarantine form and return which was done on cronus he was examined at the animal clinic mr sheldon do you have questions for officer hubricks i do i am currently having an anxiety attack because of the presence of a person who has made threats against my physical body and life and the police are refusing to do anything about it then what are you proposing to do about it i don't would i am having an anxiety attack i do not feel comfortable i do not feel safe i do not feel as though you guys have done anything to protect me or enforce the law in regards to somebody making threats against my personal safety and to have them here today is an insult and i feel that it is just more of the harassment that your department is putting me through i have told you and your officer several times that this man's presence is making me anxious nervous and scared for my life and all you have told me is over here to protect you well i'm sorry but as i told the police and fire commission i don't trust you to protect me my wife and i have said that we would not even call 911 if someone was breaking into our house because that's how we're going to be trusting mr sheldon which person are you talking about one of my neighbors who has threatened to beat my ass threatened to chill me is he in this room right now is he in this room right now he's not in this room okay he he will be called to testify if we ensure that he is only in here during the time that he testifies would that satisfy you could could we have him go down to a different floor for the time being then would you like a five-minute break or would it be easier when you ask questions of mr uh sorry officer hubricks if he comes over here and you can just use that podium that might be simpler i don't ask him for special treatment but when a man threatens your life that is not something that is taken lightly i would like to apologize it's okay i've been through a lot and i would like to conduct myself better than that officer hubricks you and i have interacted multiple times in the course of your duty as a police officer for the shboygan police department yes yes in those times have you ever had cause to interact with my dogs yes actually the first time was this past saturday oh that was the first time you have ever introduced it to my dog yes fair enough um in your interaction with my dogs was there a single moment where you were nervous or scared or felt that they were dangerous in any way well i would say that one point that i felt a little nervous is when you left me in the hall with the dogs i was not nervous of odysseus but chronos pretty much ignored me during that time period so him ignoring you made you nervous i'm not trying to offend you i just no just a little bit when you left to go get the paperwork you wanted to show me he was kind of ignoring me and just staring at the back door sure where odysseus was wanting attention from sure and and you know again he didn't make any aggressive motions he didn't growl no he didn't do anything he just ignored you correct and i was gone leaving you alone with my dogs for a couple a couple minutes yes and you were interacting with both of my dogs both without any controlling devices such as electronic collars prong collars you know any muzzle they were free off leash unmuscled interacting with you so if they were dangerous or vicious they could have attacked you right there was nothing restraining my dogs from attacking correct there's nothing restraining them other than your presence when you were there on which you just testified that there was several minutes where my presence was not there yes and so there was nothing stopping my dogs from attacking you correct and yet your testimony is that odysseus sought attention and cronus ignored you yes do those sound like the actions of aggressive dangerous and vicious dogs not at that time they weren't no would you agree that a dangerous dog is dangerous all of the time because as lisa merrick just testified a dangerous dog would be unpredictable therefore you would never know if they were safe at any given time you know bd i can answer you right now like we had talked to you that day i felt completely comfortable while you were in the presence of the dogs right and as we discussed that day your level of knowledge of dogs extends to having owned dogs correct you have no formal training correct and as far as you're aware none of the superior officers have any formal training either we do neither lieutenant adams nor chief domigalski nor captain visor has ever completed an animal behavioral course a dog training course or had any kind of formalized training when it comes to dogs whatsoever i do not know the level of their training i cannot testify to do you know that they have trained i do not thank you oh one last thing this is you in this video interacting with my dogs while i was quite upset with you at the time yes so mr sheldon do you have any more questions for him or you could say this video for your i can save the video for my presentation you self a presentation i just wanted him to confirm that it was him but but yeah if it's a question go for it yeah that that's all i just i just want him to confirm that it is him can you confirm with us as well can we see that oh no it's okay officer hubricks was the conclusion of your investigation that chronos was involved in an unprovoked attack causing serious injury to mr fighter yes thank you i would next like to call joseph winkler do you um yeah can we can we move chronos to a different location so mr winkler is not feeling or if he wants to go back with the staff area that's fine too if he wants to use one of those mics yeah actually you know what i think or i could switch spots why don't you just stand right here if you want to sit up here bill you know whatever whatever works for you uh you'll want to swear him in all right uh will you please state your name and raise your right hand uh joe winkler all right do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god yeah all right please proceed mr winkler thank you for coming today i called you because my understanding is you were the victim of two dog bite attacks in december of 2018 while resigning at 1026 a swift avenue is that correct yeah was that your residence at the time yeah i was living at the upper you lived in the upper mr shelton lived in the lower how long did you live there um i believe from august to december of 2018 of 2018 okay would you just describe for us the two dog bite incidents that happened in that december sure um so the first one i was coming back from work i parked on the street i was heading towards the back door and i was about halfway um to the corner where you turn in you know you go in the door and uh then i seen the dogs and i believe it was the brownish one came at me and latched on my arm jumped at me and i blocked it um and then um you know it kind of it was i don't want to say like dragging me like my feet were still like i i still had some balance but uh no i kind of it kind of like pulled me to the uh back door then and then finally unlatched and then the second one um the second one i was i believe i was coming out the door so i was i was upstairs coming downstairs i walked out the door and then the dog was there and uh it didn't bite my arm that time just got a hold of my jacket but uh kicked it off and yeah the first dog bite did that cause you injury yeah um i had to go to the ER um and uh i i don't remember exactly what the amount was but uh it was more than $2,500 in medical bills so did you have to get stitches uh i think it just got glue i believe glue okay and the second incident if i understand it didn't cause injury but it tore your jacket mm-hmm yeah yeah all right mike i have a photo of the torn jacket can you just confirm if that's in fact sure yeah that's my jacket so tell me again which dogs you believe were involved in this which dogs yeah these two but that's the one that bit me the odyssey is the brown the brindle dog is the one you believe bit you i believe so i mean it was two years ago um i mean they were both outside when it happened um the other one was kind of like following me when i was getting um pulled but uh yeah i believe it was the brownish one both times okay the the report indicates that it was a black dog that bit you i mean that could be that could be it okay like i said it was two years you're not totally certain right now though well yeah i mean i just remember it happening and then okay um yeah and that's totally fine right it's you know i want you to say exactly what you remember um what i would like to introduce now is item 15 which is a quarantine form and its return oh you got that the quarantine form okay which was completed on chronos and that is the only quarantine form that mr. Shelton completed did mr. Shelton offer any explanation as to why the dog might have bit you or latched on you um yeah i was like um i believe he said in like their training if you like lift your arm um they use it as like a target i guess so did you rate raise your arm in a like you were going to attack or in a defensive no like dog jumped at me i went like this that's blacked it from you know biting my face or maybe what's right here and and he told you that his dogs were trained to attack that sort of posture yeah i guess so yeah okay did you miss any work as a result of your injury um i think i missed one day okay how would you characterize mr. Shelton's dogs just generally was this an unusual incident did they did they seem to act aggressively well yeah they seem pretty aggressive um i didn't really notice it um you know when we first moved in otherwise i went to moved in um but i noticed that they were pretty aggressive because uh one time my roommate at the time was um walking out and kind of jumped at her and uh it didn't bite or anything it just kind of like nipped at her do you remember which dog that was no i don't know okay um but yeah that's when i it was kind of like the first red flag and then uh you know obviously they were always barking and uh seemed like they had to be restrained on leashes a lot so they seemed pretty aggressive and then obviously the incident happened so did you feel afraid living in the house with those dogs yeah after that yeah did they have any influence on why you moved out yeah 100% that's 100% the reason why you moved out we moved out that month so the only thing i'll add is that mr. Shelton was warned at the end of this incident that additional incidents with chronos would result in him being declared either dangerous or vicious at that time that's all i have for you but mr. Shelton might have some questions as testified it was august of 2018 that you moved into the apartment upstairs yes yeah and you just testified that you believed that it was odysseus who bit you in december of 2018 correct mm-hmm are you aware that odysseus was born in september of 2018 and therefore it would have been three months old at that time like i said i wasn't sure what shataga was it's two years ago it was two years ago three less years than the testimony that we heard from mr. frigus how old are you mr. winkler i'm 20 20 yeah so you were 18 at the time mm-hmm and so a young man 20 years old recalling an event that happened just two years ago is completely unsure of which dog bit him and yet mr. frigus was 100 percent certain that he can recall with absolute certainty which dog bit him from five years ago despite two dogs charging adam mr. winkler here testified that odysseus charged adam that was not a possibility um well actually both of them did just one of them bit me i couldn't remember which one it was so that you got bit is not in question that that is acquiesced to which dog bit you is the question and as your own testimony shows you did not know at the time nor do you know now with absolute certainty which dog bit you as we have told the police on multiple occasions the dog that we were having issues with was persephone it broke my heart to put that dog down but she was put down i'm sorry i realize i need to be asking him questions mr. winkler i have no further questions for you mr. shelter would you stay up though i have a couple of just follow-up questions for you that's right so you're saying that it basically could not be odysseus that bit mr. winkler it could not have been okay did you complete the quarantine form for chronus i did but only because i was attempting to work with you guys at the time and despite telling you that it was not chronus who bit him i completed the quarantine on chronus anyway i do believe i talked to you at the time and told you that this was ridiculous that i'm completing a quarantine on a dog who didn't actually do the biting and yet i did it to satisfy the requirements and cooperate are you saying it was persephone that was involved in this i am there's nothing in either report that indicates persephone was involved here and you completed the quarantine form on chronus i told i if it's not in the report that is a failure by your officers to accurately report what was told to them i have told you guys i have testified i testified here last time that it was persephone who bit mr. winkler i have said it over and over and over again okay just to clarify though you voluntarily did do the quarantine form for chronus which is after speaking with captain visor and having a knock down drag out phone conversation about the absolute nonsense of completing a quarantine on a dog that didn't bite anyone i said at least let me do the quarantine on the dog who bit the person if we're going to spend the money if we're going to spend the time if we're going to do these steps let's at least do it the right way with the right dog and mr in mr fighter's case you initially told officer hubricks that the third the large black dog you wouldn't identify who it was and said it was over at a friend's house and that was chronus correct that was persephone that was also persephone yes sir persephone you just did all of these no i with with the 2015 mr fighter with the mr figer case i have said the entire time that based on the wound that he had it is next to zero percent chance that it was chronus who bit him how do i know this because chronus has the same jaw structure as persephone who put the bite on debora berry those are the types of wounds that a dog like this will inflict mr figer had a tiny little incision that was inflicted by rhea who has a pointed muzzle mouth inflicted by rhea not persephone not persephone did you witness the bite i did not witness you did i have been on record and very truthful and honest about this the entire time that although i was not out in the yard i did examine mr figer's wounds in the photographs and said okay that must have been rhea who bit him i said at initially that if both of them jumped up that i could not say with certainty which one bit him but after seeing the wound i said that would have to be rhea as chronus does not have a mouth that would be able to make that kind of a wound very easily it could potentially happen because teeth are weird and bites are weird and you know wounds end up looking weird but you've seen the photographs of debora berry's leg that is the type of wound that a dog like chronus with the wide muzzle the square jaw i think we're getting into stuff that maybe you'll talk about later i just want to confirm that when officer hubric spoke with you you identified irani and rhea as the two dogs that were there you would not identify chronus as being there but later admitted yes chronus was there and not some friend's dog as you initially said i i don't recall that at all no i that's okay i said that there was a third dog there was a third dog that was in fact at a friend's house at that time but i do believe it was chronus and rhea who were identified immediately um okay officer hubricks testified differently all right i guess that's all i have for you for this incident thank you the next incident that occurred was on march 12th 2019 alissa urada was the victim she's now deceased but i'll just give a brief description of the incident she lived i do not see any photographic evidence that proves that perceptive thicker and we are taking the word she claims that chronus bitch why don't you let me describe the incident then i'll let you ask me some questions since since she's not here i'm gonna i'm gonna intervene and i'm gonna ask attorney adams for some clarification objection because he was a microphone however it appears to be it appears to me that what he what mr shellton was doing was objecting to officer adams testifying uh to this issue the rules of evidence don't apply obviously um you can consider the weight of the evidence that by the fact that officer adams or sorry at least kind of adams is um testifying rather than miss orada but uh says the rules of evidence do not apply uh he would be allowed to testify uh as to basically the records of the police department regarding the incident so lieutenant lieutenant adams you can proceed on based on the evidence that the police department has okay thank you miss orada lived in the apartment above mr shellton 1026 a swift avenue she was exiting the residents saw malissa shellton with what she described as the large black dog under the control of mrs shellton on a leash as soon as the dog saw mrs orada it pulled away from mrs shellton tearing the leash from her hand and attacking mrs orada it bit onto her right arm let go then bit her again on her right calf item 17 and 18 are photos of the injury to her that's to her arm and to her calf to punk uh puncture wounds in both locations miss orada described the dog as the largest black dog of the four that mr shellton owned she was later able to review video from mr shellton's facebook account where she told the officer she had positively identified chronos hearing mr shellton refer to him as such on the video mr shellton's correct we don't have that video mr shellton was extremely uncooperative with this investigation and refused to meet with officers who were attempting to properly identify the right dog he refused to accept the animal quarantine form he was cited for failure to comply with the rabies quarantine order and he was found guilty of that charge and that is item number 19 is that citation chronos was then declared dangerous on march 4th 2019 mr shellton if you'd like to ask me some questions about this how many convictions does miss orada have for drug abuse i have no idea and i would object to how many convictions does she have for prostitution we're going to keep these questions based on on the dog i'm calling into question the witnesses credibility because as i can speak to that a little bit go ahead because as a police officer for 18 years i have to weigh people's credibility a lot and when it seems there's conflicting statements i have to understand why there's nothing i see in this report that would be a motivation for miss orada to identify one dog over another however i believe there's a pattern of you being uncooperative with investigations in regularly trying to protect chronos i think that's a pattern of behavior you wouldn't tell officer huberix i don't need to protect chronos chronos is not dangerous when he asked which dogs were sitting next to captain visor this entire time you guys obviously don't like me do you think that my dogs can't sense that so that they can feel the hostility coming off of each and every single one of you officers okay we're gonna and yet they are not back in we're just answering questions based on this item then how about we not get into making personal attacks about what we believe about the other person's personality you asked about my question to you was what you knew about miss orada's uh criminal her integrity was your question and her integrity and you began exposing upon my integrity when there's two competing stories part of evaluating that i asked you was about her credibility i i can't speak to her individual credibility i can speak to my experience in evaluating the truth of state sorry i'm trying to answer all right let one at a time please let lieutenant adams finish and then mr shelvin no you're asking me questions right now you asked me about he's trying to answer the question let him answer it and then then you can respond in evaluating the truth of someone's statement which is speaking to their integrity which is your question we have two competing statements that don't match up we evaluate who has motivation to not tell the truth and who has motivation to tell the truth there's nothing in this incident that would tell me that miss orada has any motivation to lie about which dog did this based on my experience with you you do have motivation to do that is it been answered to your satisfaction it's been answered my satisfaction thank you yeah and furthermore would you consider being evicted for failure to pay your security deposit a motivating factor for lying not about lying which dog was responsible although we just heard several witnesses say that they couldn't identify which dog even between these two which don't look anything alike uh lieutenant adams have you seen pictures of persephone yes i have you see chronos laying here before you would you say that those dogs are similar in appearance yes except for the white spot on persephone's chest as persephone does have a white patch on her chest and she's smaller i believe not enough to notice especially if you don't know the dogs you know personally what you would see without knowing the dogs personally is two large black dogs when looking down from a standard human bipedal position you would not see the white patches on their chests you would see their large black heads and their large black bodies would you agree that that is correct i can't speak to that vantage point i've never been there to evaluate your dogs together but you do testify that persephone and chronos are extremely similar looking yes no further questions the next incidents involving mr. Shelton's dogs occurred on march third and fourth of 2020 i'm not going to go into those because that's the one where he claimed persephone was involved and we had did the whole thing of reversing the declaration however it's relevant in the sense that we do have continuing patterns of behavior with the dogs not being properly controlled and causing serious injury to people uh the next person i would like to call is robert riley is he here or theresa carpenter neither of them are here okay um so this occurred on july 30th 2020 and neither of them are here right now but i'll give a short synopsis of what happened mr riley and miss carpenter were in the upper apartment 1026 a swift avenue this is the apartment of mr riley's niece and he was there with her permission at some point mr. Shelton i believe forced entry into the apartment because he thought they were trespassing he made allegations that the tenant at that time had been evicted even though that was not the case he then threatened the two people inside that if they left he would sick his dogs onto them and they told officers that they believed uh that would happen they could hear the dogs barking and sounding aggressive eventually the police came mr. Shelton was ultimately arrested and he then told officers that next time he would not call the police but rather let his dogs handle the situation mr. Shelton do you have any questions for me about that case it's your testimony that demetria berry was not evicted at the time of that incident is that correct it was in process is my understanding is your understanding and yet you just testified that she wasn't evicted that is my understanding okay and yet are you aware of the fact that we had a hearing on december 6th i think what what was the date of that no there must have been March 3rd in i'm sorry it must it must have been july 30 2020 was when this incident occurred yeah it must have been uh july 6th on uh july 6th we had a eviction hearing and demetria berry was defaulted on for not showing up to the foam conference for the eviction hearing and therefore as far as i knew after having a default eviction entered against her via the courts that she had been evicted furthermore she had not been at the apartment since before july 6th as somewhere near the beginning of july she vacated the apartment and had not been seen and so on july 30th after a month of an empty apartment above me after three weeks almost four weeks of her having had a default judgment entered against her for an eviction case i heard people upstairs i did not force entry as you just claimed i entered the upstairs apartment through an open door where i found two people that i had never seen before in my life in an apartment that my wife and i had just recently had to go inside and start cleaning the moldy food out of the fridge and off of the surfaces because it was starting to rot to the point where mice were propagating and so we had to enter into the apartment where we found it uninhabited and had been uninhabited for long enough for processed cheese to be moldy out on the counters for the fridge to be filled with rotting food nobody had been there in weeks and so when i heard someone upstairs i went to protect the property as any one would do and when i found people up there that i did not recognize i began to call the police at which point mr riley physically assaulted me and when the police got there rather than investigating what was going on with two people being in my home rather than removing them you guys immediately began escalating the situation with me immediately became hostile with me and instead instead of making me feel safe by at the very least taking them out of the apartment to speak to them you guys refused to make someone who believed they were the victim of a cronus i know come here sit stay i know who believed he was the victim of people breaking into an empty apartment that he was supposed to be managing rather than making me feel safe and secure your officers escalated a situation with me uh let me ask you something lieutenant adams how much money did the shaborgan police department spend on de-escalation training i couldn't speak to the amount of money spent in significant time however significant time yes and so the de-escalation training i believe should include something about making victims of a crime feel safe and protected right you took this de-escalation training did you not lieutenant i did and i would say in this case in the criminal case and would show that the victims of this crime were robert reilly and teresa carpenter and you were the arrested party yes and yet this all happened because i called the police because people were breaking into my apartment do you not feel as though in that instance what needed to happen was some de-escalation and speaking to both parties and ascertaining the facts i'd object to relevance well at this point uh the relevance is that all of this is a continued campaign of harassment by the police department who enforces a double standard okay of applying the law mr shell we're just pontificating now do you have do you have a specific question for bill lieutenant adams yes i do why did his officers not de-escalate a situation where someone believed his home was being broken into i i'm not even sure what you mean by that the officers did a very good job trying to i mean that there were people in my home that's why i called the police in fact one answer your question about from the home to make me feel safe and secure i'll answer your question about de-escalation a little bit as i am going from memory now because i didn't see a reason to bring this video but as i recall officers repeatedly tried to separate you from the situation get you to talk to them somewhere else so they could in fact de-escalate it because the people who you had just barged in on were extremely agitated as well they said you had threatened your dogs on them you were extremely agitated their their attempt to de-escalate the situation was to get you to remove and as i recall you were completely uncooperative and refused to do so they so they had to talk to you there which made it a more tense situation so they did attempt to de-escalate your lack of cooperation made that very difficult okay i have just one question has dimitria buried been in the house since that time it's not your turn to question so okay we're going to move on unless you have another a different question i do i do in fact um what evidence do you have that i used my dogs to threaten these people their statement that they were not allowed to leave their statement do you have that statement with you i do not i was hoping they would be here to testify and yet they're not okay so we're gonna we're gonna would you say that if somebody cared deeply about something like this that they would be here to testify unless they felt intimidated perhaps i guess i'm not sure there's a lot of reasons people might not be here using conjecture to try and imply that okay we're we're gonna move on we're just going back and forth right now this is not helping anyone's case at this moment we're just going back and forth i apologize lieutenant adams you have any other i'll move on i will simply state that the police have been back to that residence and have had to contact with dimitria buried there since that time she was not in fact evicted thank you okay we're moving on all right mr sheldon we're gonna move on you're gonna you're gonna have another time you're gonna your presentation is still coming we're just going back and forth right now we're not moving along the meeting at all we're just bickering right now at this point it's not helping anybody's case you'll have a point to respond in a little bit he was bringing up a point okay and you've stated that we're moving on right now i'm the chair of the committee so i'm saying we're moving on you'll you'll still have plenty of time for further you'll you'll have plenty of time your presentation is still coming up next don't worry lieutenant adams all right the this is actually the final incident that i want to review it occurred september 29 and 30 and it does involve ladarius whimberley who is this the son of dimitria berry who both reside at 1026 a swift avenue neither of them are here right now but just briefly september 29 of last year one of chad sheldon's dogs believed to be odysseus chased ladarius who was 15 years old down the street in an aggressive manner without provocation the very next day september 30 a dog believed to be chronos chased ladarius down the street in an aggressive manner without provocation officer hubricks has attempted contact with ms berry and ladarius on multiple occasions i'm going to play uh audio recording of a phone call between myself and mr shelton while officer hubricks was attempting contact this is the very incident where mr shelton described him being upset with officer hubricks i think we're live streaming this i just want to put the caveat there's some profanity into this recording so if people are listening you might want to mute your volume can you turn this mic off to state your objection mr hubricks right to be on my property without a warrant and not anything to do with the dogs everything that we discussed regarding mr hubricks being at my property and has no relevance to anything to do with my dogs fighting any of the incidences any anything to do with this even peripherally is nothing to do with the conversation that your objection has been heard i do believe that this is relevant so officer lieutenant adams you can proceed and just to speak to that it will address directly why demetria and ladarius are not here today thank you this yesterday if your officers do not have a warrant stay the fuck off my property i don't give a fuck what you think is or is not a common area and what your fucking rights are you motherfuckers are done harassing me when it comes to my dogs officer hubricks is in the hall with both of my dogs right fucking now heading them i've got it on video so go ahead with your hearing you dumb motherfuckers because i love wasting taxpayer money that's fucking officers off my goddamn property unless you have a warrant is that fucking clear i can only assume officer hubricks explained to you that he's attempting contact with your i don't give a fuck what you're attempting to do i told you yesterday my tenants have signed a piece of paper saying that they wish to have no fucking contact with you whatsoever that they do not feel endangered by my dog and that they do not wish to have any further contact regarding you about this whatsoever your attempts to harass me through my tenants are over thank you so i i just want to make sure that i'm also clear chad and i do not accept what you just told me you do not have the authority to speak on behalf of your tenants based on the expensive investigation i have been doing in preparation for wednesday's hearing your tenants appear to be i do we may have fucking boldly i have to keep the people right here officer would you like to see the piece of paper signed by the tenants telling you that they do not want any further contact with you don't be saying you can only bring it out if you want and if i show you that well that's the fight to keep you off my fucking property why didn't you still with me now because i can't probably find it or whatever if they would reach out to us in content they don't want contact with you you understand the issue chat is that you cannot speak on their behalf i have a piece of paper signed by them we none of us recognize their signatures we wouldn't be able to verify that i'm sure officer hubricks would like to see the note it might be helpful oh don't worry you guys will see it after hearing you when i make fucking idiots out of you again okay do you have any other questions for me chad i am telling you for the last motherfucking time i have been in contact with the police and fire commission we are having a hearing okay if you continue to violate my fucking rights and harass me i will be documenting it every time as i have today and i will be using it not only in my hearing with the police and fire commission but in the eventual lawsuit that will be brought against the police department and the city of shabuigan if your department does not stop fucking harassing me and i want you to understand clearly that you do not have the i don't give a fuck what you want from attempted contact with you you can shut your wands up your fucking pig ass okay all right i'm gonna hang up now chad okay go ahead mother fucker have a great fucking day okay fine mr. shelton do you have that letter with you you mentioned you were going to bring it do you want to introduce it do you mind if i have a look at it while you're getting it can you tell me whether you prepared that note or demitra very prepared it you prepared it and asked her to sign it did you make any threats to her or promises when you had her sign it okay might mess it i'll just read it so everybody can hear i demitria berry do hear by state and affirm that chad shelton had reason to believe that i was no longer residing at 1026 a swift avenue in september 2020 so i had not been in the apartment for over three weeks after an eviction hearing where i was defaulted against chad shelton acted reasonably in defense of the property to potential threat of break-in and you typed that correct okay i demitria berry do hear by state and affirm that chad shelton's dogs are safe and i do not feel threatened by them at all i wish i to have the sheboygan police department stop harassing my residents trying to gather evidence against chad shelton and his dogs you typed that as well i did and i ladarius berry do hear by state and affirm that i recant any previous statements made to the sheboygan police department and that i do not feel threatened by chad shelton's dog i wish to have no further contact with the sheboygan police department in this matter and you typed that as well okay so i wish they could be here i i can't speak to the reasons why they chose not to i can guess at them however mr shelton's neighbors did witness this incident and they will testify so i'd like to call michael antilla would you rather be over here i'll go over there hold on where would you like yeah we'll we'll be able to hey bill or lieutenant adams we're gonna just he's gonna ask you some questions on this regarding this if that's okay actually just give us a minute just give me a minute he's gonna ask me some questions first bonus so despite my objection you played the phone conversation anyway so i feel it's only fair that we provide some context for that lieutenant adams have you and i spoken in the past numerous times numerous times and have all of those interactions been confrontational and hostile like that phone call was no not always no not always in fact did i not take the sheboygan police citizens course in an attempt to better get to know and understand the officers of the sheboygan police department and and any sort of hostility between us i believe the video was played to show i dmitri and ledarius are not here i'm not sure i asked you whether i took the sheboygan police citizens course i believe you did during the time of that course was there ever a time where you felt that i was being confrontational or hostile towards you or any of your officers i don't believe i ever personally interacted with you while you were in that course okay fair enough uh did you hear about any incidences not that i recall and did you know that i had cronies with me during that course promise not pulling i was not aware you were not aware so clearly there was a time where there was not hostility and tension between myself and the sheboygan police department and in between that time and today something has changed would you agree that someone might feel more hostile and confrontational towards a department who has had double digit interactions with him in the last two years since he came down with terminal stage four metastatic colon cancer over things as petty as dog feces not being out on the sidewalk but in my own backyard and in the middle of the freezing winter when my chemotherapy causes cold sensitivity pain to the point where i am unable to drink cold beverages from the fridge mr. Shelton i appreciate where you're going but do you have any questions specifically i'm just asking him whether or not he feels that my hostility could be because of the harassment that i have spoken to yourself and captain visor and several others about several times in the last two years i can't speak to what your personal feelings are i could tell you from my end the hostility from you generally revolves around investigations related to your dogs other investigations you and i have spoken okay when it comes down to your dogs biting people and us trying to investigate those incidents you are very regularly hostile yeah no further questions right thank you mr. Antilla yes mr. Antilla i'm good i'm they they already saw you want it no he can keep it hello sir please state your name and raise your right hand michael shared an ample do you sort can you put the michael a little closer to your all right state your name michael shared in antelope all right do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god yes i do all right thank you all right mr. Antilla where do you live 1022 swift avenue can you tell us where that is with respect to mr. Shelton's residence right next door your next door neighbors west of my house okay you're familiar with his different dogs yep okay do you recall an incident that occurred on september 29th and september 30th of last year with the neighbor getting chased yeah i do not know the young boy's name okay but does he live in the house next to you yeah he lives upstairs and i was outside at the time on both them days okay can you describe what it is that you saw i saw odysseus on the first day run to the left and stop down by the sidewalk in the grass area by the road uh a house down the young boy was running um i could tell he was afraid of the dogs um he tried to get a head start of the dog and um odysseus stopped at some point between my house and your next door neighbors mr. Shelton you have a time to respond this is the object objection's not heard at this point i could see when somebody's afraid he his his physical appearance his facial expressions you had cues that told you he was afraid and he was being chased by the dog yes he was being chased by the dog about how far was he chased i would say about 60 yards okay and this was in the street or on the sidewalk odysseus stopped just before the street did he leave mr. Shelton's property oh yeah you ran across my property into the next property did you see so your neighbor's name is lederius did you see him do anything to provoke this no from what i've seen he wanted to go home like he does every day and and that's how i know he's afraid of the dog is he peeks around the corner to see if he's able to go there and he must have seen odysseus in the on the left hand side of chad's house because as soon as he's seen him he started running down the street and then odysseus came after him and you did you take a photo that day of the dog that was out at large yeah actually i believe i did take a photo of that would you item 21 is a photo we have i just want to confirm it's a photo that you took yes okay and that is odysseus that's odysseus and that's the dog that chased lederius correct okay where where is that dog what property is that dog on in that photo that's my neighbor's property that is east of my house that is not mr. Shelton's property no okay and then the next day there was another incident is that correct yep did you witness that as well i sure did what happened then he tried uh looking first from the sidewalk who's that um the boy the young boy okay and at that time it was a black dog that came out he turned around ran uh southwest across the street and it followed a most of the way there and that time i heard chad yelling for cronus to come back so you heard mr. Shelton yell for cronus i did okay and again did the lederius do anything to provoke that attack no he did not and it occurred the chase occurred off of mr. Shelton's property what was that the dog chased him off of mr. Shelton's property uh he was on the sidewalk wanting to get in his apartment so it quite wasn't i guess the property yeah i guess my question is did cronus ever leave mr. Shelton's property on that oh yeah cronus did he did okay have there been any other incidents as you've been neighbors with mr. Shelton regarding his dogs from day one from day one uh cronus and persiphon at the time and um he had another black dog i think it's irania irani yeah irani they charged after at the time my daughter was dating a man and they were sitting on the porch i was out there with them and my wife was as well uh bit my daughter's boyfriend on the butt cheek they ran in the house and cronus was the first one up the stairs and bus through my door and busted the jam so there i had to buy a new cronus busted through your door yes and i had to buy a new door because of it did you call the police about that yeah actually mr. mccarty was there he took that down i don't know how i missed that one there was a lot to go through uh any other incidents that stand out yep i got attacked by cronus four times coming home from work in the morning and i guarded myself with my forearm put it up and he latched on to my arm and then i pushed him back and yelled at him and then i went in the house i did not call the police on any of those occasions are the dogs under anybody's control when these are this is happening those dogs are never on anybody's control they just wander around freely that's my witness all the time how long have you lived in the neighborhood there i've been here going on 11 years no 11 years do you feel the dogs mr. Shelton's dogs present a danger to your neighborhood yes i do okay that's all i have for you do you have questions yeah so it's your testimony that you've been attacked by cronus at least four times no it's my testimony i got attacked four times by cronus not at least oh okay so exactly four times yeah and you called the police no i didn't you didn't call the police you have wounds no i was wearing this coat you you were wearing that jacket yep so there's tears or bite marks it's a pretty strong coat pretty strong coat and i pushed into him so what does pushing into him do opens his mouth up opens his mouth and this is based on what training you have with aggressive dogs i question your training i i'm sorry i'm asking the questions here what training do you have with aggressive dogs that's my testimony i don't have to answer i don't i don't have any training and i don't have any training it's just so it's just common knowledge you know how to stop an aggressive dog without any training what no i just mighty natural instincts you must have i do what i have to do so let me ask you this why didn't you call the police because i work because you work i think cause if a dog attacked you and you believe that dog to be dangerous and a danger to the neighborhood you couldn't take five minutes to call the police and tell them that a dog just attacked you as you remember you and i were not a very good terms either i would say that that's irrelevant and like not even close to what's being asked here i'm asking you why you did not call the police about a dog that you are now testifying attacked you he answered that question do you have another question uh yes i do uh you live next door to me on swift avenue uh do you live alone no no who do you live with i have a family you have a family who do you live with none of your business who i live with i assume your wife lives there with you right that's none of your business and and have you and your wife mr sheldon what's the question in relevance the question is have you and your wife ever had interactions with me and my dog have you ever had interactions with me and my dog with you and your wife she has witnessed the same things i have have you and your wife had interactions with me and my dog i have and and has your wife been there during those interactions have you sat on your porch Mr. Sheldon, he's trying to answer your questions. Please let him answer. My daughter has on her way to work. Coronas tried to charge that hurt. Have you and your wife had interactions with me and my dogs while on your porch? I'm not going to answer that. You're not going to answer that. So have you and your wife asked me to bring my dogs over to your porch so that she could say hi to them? No. That's a lie. Have you and your wife asked me to bring Odysseus over to the porch so that she could say hi to him? I have not witnessed that. You were sitting right there. No. Yes, you were. I have not personally witnessed that. Have you pet my dogs while on your porch? When Odysseus was a puppy? Have you pet my dogs while on your porch? No, I don't have that. Yes, you have. I do not have that kind of reaction with your dog. Why are you lying? Mr. Sheldon, we're not going to have that kind of reaction with your dog. Please ask a specific question. You're just asking a question in a different way. When your dogs attack me aggressively, no, I don't have that kind of interaction with them, nor will I ever. Don't worry. I have witnesses. All right. Any other questions for? If the witness is going to continue to lie, there's no point in continuing to ask him questions. Okay. Thank you. I'd like to call Mr. Vaso Thacker. It's too late. Sorry. Mike, can you get Vaso Thacker? No, no, please. Everyone's time. Mr. Sorensen has said it's too late. Let's just... I am moving on. We're getting to the next witness. Hi, sir. Please state your name. My name is Vaso Thacker. Good afternoon, everyone. Please raise your right hand. Do you sort of tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Thank you. Mr. Thacker, where do you live? 1021 Sweet Avenue. And where is that with respect to Mr. Sheldon's residence? Excuse me? Where is that with respect to Mr. Sheldon's residence? Directly across the street from my house, Kitty Corner basically. Across the street. Okay. You're familiar with his different dogs? Yes. I understand that you as well witnessed the incident on September 29 and 30 when the neighbor boy was chased by dogs on those two occasions? Yes. Were there other occasions as well? More than that occasion, yes. Okay. Can you tell us about the most recent occasion that you recall? Was it on September 30? Yes. Was that the most recent? Yes. Okay. Can you describe that? Me and my significant other, she picked me up from work. We was coming down Swith, heading east on Swith. And the neighbor that stays across the street from me, the kid that stays upstairs above, I don't know his name, but the guy with the dogs, I stopped at the stop sign, which is normal. And I see the kid, you know, he kind of hesitant to want to go to his house. As he was walking towards his house, my significant other told me, she said, stop for a minute. You know, don't go. Just stop. So I stopped. As the kid was trying to go to his house, you just heard the kid just yell and just started running. As soon as he took off running, you just seen that matter of fact, it's that one. I don't know his dog's names, but that was it because I know he have a girl dog too. And he have a Brinnell strike dog. And the reason why I know the Brinnell strike dog is I have a pit bull myself that's butter. So what I did to distinguish his dogs, because I don't know him or his dogs personally, I will say butter, which will be his Brinnell strike dog because of my dog. And he have a girl dog that's big like the boy dog. So that's how I was able to distinguish which dogs is the ones that's doing, making all, you know, record. But on that Pacific day, the kid was coming to his house. I guess he was getting out of school and he was on his way to his house and that dog was loose. He was standing in between his neighbor house on the right side and his house, which is the gang way. And as the kid was walking up the side, the same side that he stayed on, which is the house, that dog come running out the side of the house and chase that kid clean across the street. He crossed my street. He chased them all the way up to the corner. And by that time, when that dog chased him up to the corner, he finally decided to want to come out. But I don't, wherever, when he came outside, he just came out all voiceless, acting crazy, talking crazy. And me and him had a couple verbal words. And he was threatening me with his dog, what he was doing was taking his dog, smacking his dog on his ass, telling his dog, oh, my dog will do this, my dog will do that to you. So me and him had a couple of words and I told him, you let your dog loose, I'm going to beat your ass, plain and simple. So another occasion that I didn't see him, his dog is a brutal strike dog that his wife just had chased the same kid. But that time, when a brutal strike dog chased the kid, he chased the kid east bound towards the lake. I have cameras on my house. And it's a couple of situations where I was trying to upload my cameras. So Adams, I was trying to give him the footage of some situations. But my wife had caught a situation, one of the incidents where the dog had actually got loose and was on the side of the house on that Pacific day when he chased that kid. So, but yeah, you know, and it's sad to say, you know, there can be some good dogs, you know, and I heard him keep screaming and trying to question everybody on, do you got dog's experience? Let me tell you, I got 17 years. I have 17 years of dog's experience. I have 17 years of dog's experience. He's addressing me, stop. I have 17 years of dog's experience, which I've trained, rock wallows, dogman pictures, pit bulls, and it's all on how the owner acts around the dogs to make the dogs react to certain ways that they react. I have a pit bull myself that I still have to this day. And it's nothing like, you know, like I said, it's all up to the owner on what the owner make the dog do. You know, if the dog says that the owner is hostile, the dog going to get hostile right along with it. And that's exactly what his dogs do. That dog right there specifically is his main trained dog that he tried to show off because he wanted to be a dog whisperer. And but what happens is that the rest of his dogs follow behind that dog. So whatever that dog do, then the rest of them dogs will react. That's why he keeps that dog by him. In the summertime, he comes outside with his shirt off, sit on his front porch. Yeah, I got big dogs. I like dog to do this. My dog kill your ass. You know what? You can keep all your threats. Oh, that's the main reason why me and him got into it. I just stand over there or swim for three and a half years. I've never had any altercation with any of my neighbors, but him because of his dogs. Okay, well, thank you very much. It sounds like you have extensive experience with that. I guess just to summarize, he has got his dog agitated by smacking it and making threatening gestures. Like if they got the collar on, he'll have the collar and smack him on the ass. Was that Kronos? And that's that dog right there. Okay. All right. Thank you very much. You have questions? 17 years of experience. 17. How much of that was professional? 17. What was your job and what was your professional capacity as a dog trainer? My job was to take dogs and rehabilitate dogs. That was my job. And what company did you work for? What company did I work for? It's down in Gary, Indiana. It's called Whisper. It's called what? Whisper. Whisper? Down in Gurney, Indiana. Gary, Indiana. Gary, Indiana? Yes. Let's see if this place exists. How old are you? I'm 41. How long did you live in Indiana? That doesn't matter. When did you move to Wisconsin? That's irrelevant to this case. Well, if you have 17 years of experience and you're only 41 years old, that's a significant portion of your life. How long have you been living in Wisconsin that you had 17 years to spend in Indiana learning this? I've been living in Wisconsin on and off. So it's not 17 straight years of experience? Oh, yes it is. Because I've also trained dogs in Wisconsin as well. For what company? Doesn't matter. If you have a company that you train for, why would it? I personally don't have a company. You must not hear me. I've worked for many companies. I've worked for a company down in Gary, Indiana. So it's not professional dog training experience? You are doing this in your own capacity without working for an actual company? No. This is a company that I work for. Then what company do you work for? I just told you it's called Whisper. It's in Gary, Indiana. They might have changed the name throughout the course, but that's what the name was called when I was working for them. It's actually in Mayorville to be promulgated. There is no record of any... Object to Mr. Shelton's ability to do an exhaustive search for this company. Oh, I can prove my ability to do an exhaustive search if that's required. Do you have another question for the witness? Yeah, I do. So it is your testimony that you told me you would beat my ass. Exactly. I told you if you released your dogs on me or my wife that I would beat your ass. That's my exact question. You told me that you would beat my ass. Did you also tell me you would pound my head in? Excuse me? Did you also tell me that you would pound my head in? Beat your ass, pound your head in, whichever way you're going. Did you also tell me that you would kill my dogs? Excuse me? Did you also tell me that you would kill my dogs? No, I didn't tell you I was going to kill your dogs, but I did tell you I was going to beat your ass. Did you call me a faggot? Yeah. Did you threaten me? All right, this is not relevant. Excuse me? Did I call you a faggot? Yeah. All right, this is not relevant. Let's ask questions specific to your case setting right now. My relevancy... What we call names does not matter. My relevancy is that not only is he testifying to this in this hearing, but the last witness had phoned video evidence of him making these threats. The police saw this, and rather than issuing a citation to any of the people making threats of physical violence, they were more focused on issuing a citation to me. This goes once again, and I understand that you want me to wait until my closing statement to make all of these statements, but I'm just reminding everybody throughout the course of this that this is harassment by the police. They are not interested in applying a fair standard of the law when it comes to me. This man has testified here before you and will walk out of here a free man with no citations, saying that he threatened to beat my ass, pound my head in, called me multiple derogatory slurs, and the police have done nothing and will do nothing about it because they were made against me. I assure you, Mr. Sorensen, Mr. Decker, members of the council appearing by video, that none of you would appreciate someone walking on to your property, making threats that this man has testified that he made against me, and to have the police respond not only with not doing anything about that, but by continuing to harass you and look for ways to cite you. Any further questions? No further questions for the witness. Just one follow-up question. The threats that you made to Mr. Shelton were in response to him threatening you with his dog. Is that correct? Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate you coming today. Actually, I'm just going to stay here because I just got one thing to close with. On that case, Mr. Shelton was charged with two counts of animal at large. He was found guilty of both of those. Additionally, Officer Huberix, who is the neighborhood officer, is responsible for making sure that Mr. Shelton complies with the dangerous dog ordinance. In spite of it being nearly two years, he is still not compliant. He has received four citations for that and been found guilty of all of those. So just in summary, I would say that Cronus meets the following vicious dog criteria. He caused a serious injury to or killed a person or domestic animal, attacked a person in such a manner as to require defensive action to prevent bodily injury or property damage when such person is conducting himself or herself peacefully and lawfully on property other than that of the owner of the attacking dog and attacked a person in such a manner as the result in property damage or an injury to the person when such person is conducting himself peacefully and lawfully on property other than the owner of the attacking dog. Odysseus meets the following dangerous dog criteria. He chased or attacked any person, sorry, any human being or domestic animal without provocation. He demonstrated an approach or apparent attitude of attack toward any human being or domestic animal in a menacing fashion without provocation. As we've heard, there are numerous people who've been negatively impacted by Mr. Shelton's dogs. Two of them moved out of their home for fear to currently live in his neighborhood and are afraid. There's two people that didn't even come to testify because they signed a document allegedly that Mr. Shelton typed up himself. There are a number of people who've been negatively impacted by his dogs. So I would ask that you maintain the declaration of viciousness on Cronus and dangerous on Odysseus. Thank you. Thank you Lieutenant Adams. I'm sorry, I'm not good to call witnesses. Yep, it's your turn now. I didn't know we were making closing statements. Nope, so now it's your turn to make your presentation. You can call witnesses and then you can make your closing statement. I would like to call. Do you want to call witnesses first or do you want to do a witness? I would like to call Melissa Shelton. All right. You can just drop his leash. You don't have to take him up there with you. All right, please state your name. Melissa Al Coon Shelton. All right. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So help you God. I do. Thank you. Please proceed. Melissa, you are my wife but we are legally separated but you still come by to help with the dogs. Is that an accurate statement? That is correct. Okay. And in the course of helping me with my dogs, with our dogs, you have been witness to several of the incidences that were discussed today, correct? Correct. I'm going to start with some of them and just kind of go down the list. Oh, I'm sorry I thought somebody was. In the case of Mr. Feiger. First name? Ed. Okay. Did you see the wound sustained by Ed? Yes, I did and I was witness to Cronus jumping at his front and then Rhea jumping at his back of his arm where in fact his wound was. Correct. So the wound was on his tricep on the back side of his arm and have you seen wounds dealt by Persephone who as we have covered is almost identical to Cronus? Yes, I have seen wounds that Persephone has done. And did Ed's wound resemble in any way the wounds that Persephone did? No. What kind of wound did Ed have? It looked like a neck like if I bumped and hit my arm on this it would neck a chunk out of my arm. And have you seen Rhea make similar bite marks in the past? Yeah, but it was mostly plain and over. Right, yeah I understand you know we're not here to to discuss whether Rhea is aggressive but she has nipped and the wounds were similar in appearance to the ones that you saw on Ed? Oh yes. The one I'm sorry that you saw on Ed. Okay. I have one on my stomach. Yeah, so again, a young man couldn't tell which dogs had attacked him two years ago and yet a septigenarian can recall with perfect accuracy which dog bit him five years ago. Now moving on, what's Mike's wife's name? Shannon. Do you know Mike and Shannon who live next door? I do know Mike and Shannon. I've been over and sat on Shannon's porch plenty of times and had conversations with her. And were the dogs ever with? Occasionally we had the dogs with and occasionally it hasn't been it was just having a cigarette on their front porch. And during the times when you've had the dogs with have has there ever been any apprehension or hesitation on Shannon or Mike's parts for you to have the dogs up on their porch? No, the only time there was any hesitation was when their son or son in law was visiting because he was on crutches. They just stated that like make sure that you know a reasonable request come around and sure if someone's on crutches large dogs, you never know. Yeah, reasonable request. But many other times you've gone over to Mike and Shannon's porch with Cronus, Odysseus, Erany, other dogs and dogs omitting Persephone because Persephone was the one that jumped at their door. Persephone is the one that used to knock me off my feet on the leash. Persephone would be the one that jumped at the side of a neighbor's house. Yeah, we'll get to Persephone. We understand that. I'm just saying that Cronus, Odysseus, Erany, you've had dogs over to Mike and Shannon's porch on multiple occasions. Each dog multiple times. Yeah. But multiple dogs at once. Yeah. Has Shannon asked you to bring Odysseus over so that she could say hi? No, no. She used to ask me. That's why I ask. I just wondered if she also asked you, but just trying to establish, that's fine. She did ask one time if he could come up on the stairs. Okay, okay. Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at. He didn't want to come up on the stairs. Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at. But yeah, either way, I'm making the point that you are aware that they have requested interaction with the dogs, not just accepted, actually requested. Oh, yeah. Okay. The incident with Mr. Winkler, Joe, which dog did you have outside at the time? It was Persephone. It was Persephone. And when I know it was Persephone because she's my dog, she's a female dog, and she doesn't left her leg to pee. Right, right. Mr. Winkler. Mr. Winkler, Joseph, both the cases with Mr. Winkler. Okay. Was Odysseus even at the house during the time winning? I don't think Odysseus was even born while Joe lived there. I don't recall Odysseus being born. I certainly know he wasn't at the house. Correct. So again, and granting that memory becomes foggy over time. But again, his testimony that it was Odysseus simply could not be true. No. Okay. And give me just one second. I'm sorry. The chemotherapy affects my memory. And so it's hard to keep everything sorted. I'm just, when Deborah Berry got bit, how many dogs did you have with you? Just Persephone. Only Persephone. Right. I was going to say just Persephone, right? Correct. And Cronus, Areny, and I think Rhea maybe? Was Rhea still there? Rhea I think was still there. But Cronus and Areny for sure were in the house with me. Yeah. And the police still issued a quarantine order for three dogs, despite you telling them that you had Persephone with you and only Persephone with you. Correct. And so despite the fact that only one dog bit and clearly only one dog bit, they issued quarantine orders for three dogs. And you had already told them that it was Persephone. Yes. Okay. I just wanted to get that clear. After Persephone bit Deborah Berry, did we arrange a meeting with Chief Domagowski and Lieutenant Adams and an officer in order to discuss the dangerous dog designation and quarantines that they had placed on the other dogs? Yes, we did. And that was after I went in for questioning about it as well. Oh yeah. That's right. They brought you in for questioning. But yes, so we arranged a meeting. Was I confrontational or hostile towards them in setting up this meeting? Not in setting up the meeting. And what was, what did we bring as a offering of peace? That we would have, we would put Persephone down. No, no, no. I'm just talking about what we brought as an offering of peace to the officers. Cookies or something? Cupcakes. Cupcakes. Yes. We brought in cupcakes, homemade cupcakes to the meeting. Nobody goes into a meeting with a Pyrex dish full of cupcakes intending to have a confrontational or hostile negotiation. When you bring cupcakes, the hope is that everybody will remain level-headed, enjoy a sweet treat, and discuss the options available, lay the cards on the table, and hopefully everybody walks away. I'm not sure this is a winner. This is relevant because it goes towards the police department's attitude towards myself and my dogs, which is why they are pursuing so doggedly, no pun intended. But let's just proceed then. So when we presented our proposal to Chief Domegowski, the proposal was that we would acquiesce that I had failed to rehabilitate Persephone and that she would be put down in order for them dropping the dangerous dog designation on Cronus. Correct. What was Chief Domegowski's response? That he wasn't going to drop the... He said that will never happen. And the meeting pretty much deteriorated from there with no ground being gained, not even being able to explain to them what we wanted to do because Chief Domegowski would not even hear an option that left Cronus not designated as dangerous. Okay. Have you witnessed Officer Inger interact with your dogs? I have witnessed a couple of officers interact with my dogs. Officer Inger would be the Asian officer, not Officer Heng. The one that met us out at the dog run park that one day? Officer Heng. Officer Inger. Inger? Yeah. He met us out at the dog run park that one day when Cronus was still pretty young. Yes. Okay. Did you witness Officer Inger interact with your dogs? Yes. Did Officer Inger state that your dogs did not appear to be dangerous to him at all? Right. Okay. Have you seen other officers interact with your dogs? Yes. I do. I believe I've seen my sheriff's officer, McCarthy. She's got long, girl-blind hair. She's come to the house a couple of times. And when we took them out to have pictures, I don't know which officer that was. Have you ever noticed an officer fearful of your dogs? Have you ever noticed an officer be... Not with them visually being able to see my dogs. Right. Have you ever had an officer get bit, growled at, snapped at, anything? No. No. Okay. Every time you've ever been involved with a dog who ended up biting someone, it was Persephone. Correct. Other than probably Rhea. Although nobody can prove with any certainty what dog ended up biting Mr. Feiger. But as far as you believe, it was Rhea who bit Mr. Feiger and every other dog you can say with 100% certainty it was Persephone who ended up biting someone. Yes. Okay. Lieutenant? I just have a couple of questions. Would you say Chad has a favorite dog of all the dogs? What? Would you say that Mr. Shelton has a favorite dog? A favorite dog? Yeah. Yeah, it was Persephone. It was Persephone. Correctly. It was the first dog but Persephone was his baby that he used to sing to and cuddle with and sit on his lap until he got diagnosed with cancer. Well the dogs he has now, would you say Kronos is his favorite dog? He doesn't favor any of the dogs. Doesn't really favor any of them? Okay. Do you know why? So you were with Mr. Feiger's incident, you actually had the dogs, correct? Was that Ed? Yes. Yes. Okay. And so that was Irani, Rhea and Kronos. That was Kronos and Rhea was outside. Irani was inside the house. And then our other dogs was with a friend. Okay, my understanding is that the three dogs were outside. Kronos was the one. There were only two dogs. There were only two. Okay. I only took them out two at a time. Okay. Do you know why Chad would not tell Officer Hubrichs that Kronos was the other dog that was there? I don't know. Does it seem like a strange thing to do? As far as you know, was there any reason to hide that fact? I don't know. I know that I have with the other cases informed to the police when they asked me which dog it was that it was Persephone that bit. Would you say you've always done that in a timely manner? Not so much with Demetrius as Mom Deborah, I think it was. But by that point, I was done trying to tell the police again that it was Persephone. How about a year prior to that with Ms. Urata, were you timely in speaking to officers then? I'm sorry. The previous, a year prior to that when Ms. Urata was bit, were you guys timely in speaking with officers then? Oh yes. I told the officer when it happened when they came, I asked Alyssa if she was bit or hurt, and she said no. And I took Perse in the house and then we didn't hear anything else until the next day when she went to the hospital and then came back and said. Do you recall officers trying to make contact with you both and being told on the phone that okay you can come over now and then they show up 45 minutes later and then you're they were told nope it's too late now you can't come back come back another time and this went on for several days. This is the Ms. Urata incident. I don't recall that usually of an officer. There was only one time that I can recall of that an officer was going to come over and I had to go to work and I was an hour and a half late and the officer was late and I went to work. For the Mr. Fighter case I guess in your experience with dogs when there's a dog bite what is the purpose of quarantining the dog afterwards the rabies quarantine? To make sure that they don't bite or have rabies. Correct it's to show that they don't exhibit signs of rabies. Right. Do you know the benefit of that to the victim? To make sure that they don't have rabies or get sick? Correct and it means they can avoid a painful procedure of getting treated for rabies. So it's an important process the quarantine process. We've had numerous instances where neither of you completed the quarantine process and there were several citations for which Mr. Shelton was found guilty. Going back to Mr. Fighter's case there was a quarantine that was done and it was done on Cronus. Correct. Do you recall that? Yeah. Okay does that seem strange if Cronus isn't the one that bit the dog? Yeah it did. Can you tell me why both dogs weren't quarantined? You guys didn't do your job. All right Mr. Shelton. So Officer Hendricks presented the problem that the victim Mr. Fighter said it was the black dog. Your testimony at the time was that you didn't know which dog bit him. I said that it could possibly be Rhea. Could possibly be Rhea. Mr. Fighter was confident it was Cronus. All right. And Officer Hendricks explained with the importance of the quarantine that if we're not sure we have to quarantine both and you or Mr. Shelton made the decision to quarantine Cronus and not Rhea. I didn't make that decision. Mr. Shelton did? Okay I think that's all I have. All right thank you. You can call him as a witness if you're done with your wife unless you got more questions for your wife first. I think it's more she's done with me but okay sorry bad joke. All right please state your name. William Adams. All right do you sort of tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you so help you God. I do. Thank you. Lieutenant Adams you wanted to make a big deal out of these quarantine orders and and how they weren't followed so I feel it's only appropriate that I ask you a few questions about them. When we were telling you guys that it was almost certainly Rhea who bit our options were quarantine Cronus or quarantine both of them. We were never given an option to just quarantine Rhea. Is that correct? Yes that is correct. That is correct. So I will correct one thing you said though. There was no evidence ever presented that it was most certainly Rhea. The only person who witnessed the bite aside from Mr. Fighter was Mrs. Shelton and she just testified that she was not sure which one bit him. She said and you were not there correct. I was at the house I was not outside. And as stated nobody would know with 100 certainty which dog it was. And yet we were not presented with any reasonable options. We either had to quarantine the dog that we were almost 100 percent certain did not bite Ed Figer or quarantine both of our dogs in expense we could not afford and something that would just simply be not necessary since only one dog had bitten him. And yet despite us telling this to you our options were quarantine Cronus or quarantine both of them. Then with the Alyssa Aruta incident you bring up the timeliness with which we discussed things with the police and yet by your own testimony we spoke on the phone. I told you guys that I was available right now. And then an hour later you call saying oh the officer's at your door. I apologize that I have medical reasons and appointments to keep. I apologize that my wife has a work schedule to keep but we did remain in communication with your department and attempt I do believe you are correct that it took two or three times of attempting to get together before we were finally able to to provide a statement. But in no way shape or form were we uncooperative. We told you what our schedule was and if our schedule did not match up with your schedule as clearly it did not since you were not available at the drop of a dime either then that's equal fault that's not us refusing to talk to you we had several times where we said we can talk and you guys said well we don't have an officer available right now. Does that make it your fault that the report did not get in on time? No absolutely ridiculous and an attempt to simply paint my character as someone who does not cooperate with the police something that is patently not true. I have cooperated with your department even through years of harassment. So my next question to you lieutenant is when Alyssa told my wife that she was not bit we assumed that that was what had happened that she had a scare but was not bit when we were told now that you guys wanted to talk to us about her being bit yeah we did not believe her. Those photographs that you showed look consistent with drug abuse to me I know because unfortunately I have had a few friends go down the dark road of using hard drugs like heroin and that is exactly what their arms and legs started looking like those do not look anything like any of the dog bites that I have seen in my life not even a little bit and so you're right I did refuse to comply with that quarantine however my question to you is how many dogs does the Sheboygan police department believe bit Deborah Berry? Yeah how many dogs do you believe were responsible for the single bite that Deborah Berry suffered? Well she suffered two bites one on her arm and one on her leg. That's Alyssa Arruda sir. Oh I'm sorry I'm not thinking. Deborah Berry the one serious bite you are under you understand Deborah Berry is not part of this hearing correct we agreed last time that Persephone was responsible for Deborah Berry. You just brought up that incident in regards to in regards to me following the animal quarantine so my question to you is how many dogs does the Sheboygan police department believe bit Deborah Berry? If I said Deborah Berry that's my fault I was referring to the Alyssa Arruda. You brought up the animal quarantines that were not followed? Yes I did bring that up. That's what this is about. Okay what do you have a specific question for me? How many dogs does the Sheboygan police department bit Deborah Berry? I believe only one. Only one and yet how many dogs did you issue a quarantine order for? So the answer to that and we actually saw a video of officer Fischer attempting to interview immediately after that incident to gain that very important information of who which dog was responsible and the committee got to see how you responded to that brushing your teeth extremely hostile suggesting it wasn't suggesting it wasn't even any of your dogs because your dogs were all inside. You did not cooperate with that investigation and just like an officer Hubricks's investigation with Mr. Fighter if we're not certain we need to quarantine all of the possible animals that were involved for the sake of the victim. You were certain that it wasn't Cronus because that was exactly what I testified immediately was that I was in bed with Cronus at the time. Is there another is there a specific question? Yeah the question is how many dogs did you issue a quarantine order for? Take me a minute to look. I believe there were two that you were getting and you were cited for two and found guilty of both. Three quarantine orders for one dog bite. And to just address your previous question I didn't quite get to it. Looking at Ms. Urata's injuries they do appear consistent with a dog bite to me. That's your opinion? Yes it is. And yet I've seen way more dog bites than you. So I have investigated numerous dog bites. I'm sure you have. Have you rehabilitated aggressive dogs? No. Have you worked with any shelters in their capacity to rehabilitate aggressive dogs? No. Have you? I have no professional experience training dogs. You have no professional experience so would you say that you have witnessed more arrests than I have but I've probably witnessed more aggressive dogs than you have? I would wholeheartedly agree that you have witnessed more aggressive dogs than I have as I believe you witness them on a daily basis. So childish. Anyway, the question for you is if one dog bit and you issued three quarantine orders to a man on disability that you guys know cannot afford the multi-hundred dollar quarantine fee for any single dog let alone for three dogs and yet I tell you my wife tells you on multiple occasions that it was Persephone whether it was done immediately following the investigation or not is irrelevant because I told the officer exactly what I knew. I knew that I was asleep in bed with Cronus and that by the time I got out of bed all of my dogs were in the house. Mr. Scheldt, is there a question you're repeating yourself? The question is why would the Sheboygan Police Department issue three quarantine orders for one dog bite after being told? This case is not being considered today. Okay. Other questions? It's been brought up as evidence for him multiple times. And he's answered it and now we're repeating ourselves and talking in circles? Well my only thing is that there was one dog bite. If there's one punch thrown in a fight arresting three people for throwing a punch doesn't make any sense. Lieutenant Adams has addressed that question that you had and you asked several different times in different ways. I don't feel it's satisfactory responded to but I understand and I apologize. I don't have any further questions for Lieutenant Adams. Thank you. Any other witnesses you'd like to call? No. I already yeah yeah. Okay. Do you have a closing statement then you'd like to make? Yes actually I do and it involves a little bit of a demonstration since that man wanted to lie so openly. Cronus come here. Come on Cronus get up. That man his claims of 17 years of experience fly in the face of everything that he said because there are very specific ways to trigger a dog's aggression and what he described is cartoonish amateur attempts to trigger a dog's aggression often seen in like movies about like dogs that are like you'll see like a gangster with like a dog and like that's how they'll behave. Cronus get him get him get him Cronus get him get him. He doesn't know what is going on. He's confused turning towards me. He didn't bark at you. He didn't look at you. He didn't do anything because that is a ridiculous way to get a dog to to be aggressive to someone. So to make the statement that that's what I did as I just demonstrated to you I would never do that because even if my goal was to threaten or intimidate him as is the obvious implication of what he's saying then that would be a completely ineffective way of doing it. His description of what I was doing is so off base of how you get a dog to be triggered that it's laughable and it makes me question everything he had to say because if that's how he thinks you trigger a dog then obviously he doesn't have 17 and a half years of professional experience and so how much of everything else he said was a lie. Again this is all a huge waste of everyone's time. You have seen my dogs with the exception of my puppy who couldn't stop you know fidgeting. He wasn't being aggressive in any way. He was just fidgeting but with the exception of my puppy you have seen Cronus laying around in your council chambers. Have you witnessed a single act of aggression? Have you heard him growl? Have you seen anybody come close to them have to react with fear in any way shape or form? I knew that we would spend hours talking in circles and it all comes down to he said she said. I don't want to play this game so I brought my dog in so that everyone in this chamber can see and feel with your own two hands and eyes the danger level of this dog because it is non-existent. This dog is less dangerous than I am and I'm dying of stage four metastatic colon cancer. I don't have the energy to go anywhere or do anything with these dogs. They live in my house and they go to the bathroom in my fenced in yard. That's it. We go nowhere. We interact with no one and yet I was 100% confident coming in here today that I did not need a prawn collar or an electronic collar or a muzzle. I don't need this leash. This dog is as much of a threat to you as that chair. It's only dangerous if you're not looking in the dark and you trip over it. Otherwise it's not going to just jump up and bite you. My dog is not going to just jump up and bite you. We heard a lot of lies today. We heard a lot of exaggerated truths today. I don't care what somebody chooses to believe. I understand that these are police officers and that their word carries a lot of weight. I believe that in a society of laws that it should. But I believe that they are human and that they are as fallible as you or I. And I believe that everybody here has made a mistake in judging someone or judging a dog. It happens. I believe the Sheboygan Police Department has either made a series of mistakes or as will be heard by the Police and Fire Commission that they are harassing me and they are simply looking for ways to try and harm me. All of these tickets that he says that I've been found guilty of. I was found guilty by default because I refuse to stand before a judge and fight with these officers in some kind of he said she said battle. I am not going to take time out of my treatment. I am not going to take time while I am sick and throwing up. Perhaps some of you might remember the last time I was here and throwing up. Thankfully today I am doing slightly better. But I am still in pain standing here before you. The tumor on my side tears into my muscles when I am standing like this and it hurts. But I am here today to fight against this designation because it is nonsense. By their own testimony the Sheboygan Police Department does not have anyone here today with any expertise whatsoever on this subject. They do not have training in animal behavioralism. They do not have training in dog training. They have never rehabilitated an aggressive dog. Their expert witness, Lisa Merrick, has never had formal training, has never rehabilitated an aggressive dog and openly admitted that she did not know with certainty whether Cronus was dangerous. Simply that her and her staff didn't feel comfortable while admitting that dogs can often be nervous when being ripped away from their owners and placed in a shelter which, by the way, we did not even discuss the fact that that was an illegal seizure of my dog that occurred that day. My wife was driving around with Cronus and their officer told Melissa that she must surrender the dog and that they would follow her to the Humane Society to make sure that she surrendered the dog and that if she didn't, that they were coming with a warrant to seize the dog. They threatened her and coerced her without her free will to surrender that dog and then tried to claim that the dog was surrendered voluntarily and had to turn around and give the dog back because they knew, they knew that they had broken the law, that they had overstepped their bounds and that they were illegally seizing my dog. They have done this over and over again. I brought up briefly before that when they come to my home, when I call them about somebody making threats to me on my property, when I call them about people possibly breaking into my home, they are more interested in whether or not I have the dog poop picked up in my backyard. I'm sure you guys know people with dogs and I'm sure you know that not everyone picks up their dog poop the second their dog poops in their yard. When I was still healthy enough to walk my dogs, I had multiple Walmart bags on me at all times. I would never leave my dog feces on the sidewalk out in public. That is terrible and I would never do that. But in my own yard when I'm dying of cancer, I mean I don't just leave it to pile up but you know pick it up every day every other day and yeah that means sometimes there's a few piles out there especially when I had four or five dogs. But when I can't even go outside because I am in such physical pain from the cold, you would think that the Sheboygan police department would have an ounce of a heart to understand that I physically could not pick up my dog's feces from my yard from my yard and instead they continue to issue citation after citation to a man on disability. I'm parked in the handicapped space out front right now with my placard up because I am physically disabled. I am having pain standing here before you. I cannot walk through Walmart without becoming exhausted. I am suffering every day and the police department is more concerned with how they can punish me than with how they can help me or at the very least just leave me alone by their own testimony. There hasn't been any incidences since September. We're already into the next calendar year. Prior to that the one incident that as far as I'm concerned is the one thing that is of concern is the one thing we're not hearing today. Although they brought it up multiple times, the March 3rd incident with Deborah Berry being bitten, that was the one thing that seriously happened and I had to put down my favorite dog as a result of that and it pains me every day to know that I failed that dog because she did not deserve that. I know that a dog biting someone is a horrible thing. I can't undo that but I know that that dog was a loving dog that just needed more time and unfortunately I ran out of that time and it hurts me because I have never failed a dog before that. In 15 plus years of training dogs I have never failed to rehabilitate an aggressive dog. There has never been a dog. Mean pit bulls at the shelter who wouldn't let anyone put a leash on them and walk them without biting the shelter workers, records of them biting the shelter workers. I came in and rehabilitated that dog but I wasn't able to do it for that dog and it hurts but I did what I had to because I do believe that humans are worth more than dogs. I do believe that the safety of everyone is what's most important and although I know in my heart that I could have saved that dog I couldn't do it before she ended up biting someone seriously and for that she had to pay the ultimate price but I did it and I would do it with these dogs if that is what was needed because I will not allow these dogs to be a danger to anyone. I've got people who would gladly come in and testify on my behalf. Some of them you may know. People of standing in this community who have used my services as a trainer who have met my dogs they would tell you that I am a good person, a good trainer and that these are good dogs but I didn't ask them to come in today because again I don't want you to take my word for it. All I ask is that you not rubber stamp theirs, that you use your own intelligence and judgment to just come and meet this dog and tell me whether he is dangerous or not because if you have the confidence to come and meet a dog that has shown no signs of aggression this entire time that we've been here you will see that there is not an ounce of danger in this dog. This is an old dog who has maybe three years left. He might have a little more time than me but right around the same time me and him are going to leave this world and all I want is for him to not have to leave it any earlier than he has to like I do because he is not a danger. If he was I would be the first one saying you know what? Yeah he's a danger and you don't have to take my word for that because I proved it. I proved it with Persephone. I said yeah that bite that Deborah Berry suffered is serious. That was not a little nip. That was not a warning bite. That was an aggressive bite and I did what had to be done to protect people in the future from her. I would do it again with him if I had to but why? Why would I put him down when he is literally just laying here surrounded by men in uniform with weapons who hate me. Mr. Sheldon you've been speaking now for a little over 20 minutes. I'm so sorry. And you're talking in circles and repeating yourself. I know I have questions for you and I know other committee members might. We've been on this for over three hours now so just if you want to wrap up your closing statement. That was basically what I was getting at was that you know just please come meet Cronus and tell me that you think he's dangerous. Thank you. All right so just procedurally Chuck committee members ask questions and then go into closed session to deliberate and then come back with our decision. Yeah so if you do have questions of the parties you can ask them technically that's sort of part of the testimony portion. So we probably should have done that before the closing statements but that's fine. Okay. And then we would make the determination you can go into closed session to deliberate if you choose. Yeah so that would be an option. The other thing that we'll want to do before we completely close the hearing is we're going to want to clarify the exhibits and those kinds of things but I'll take care of that once you're done. Okay sounds good. I'll start off with questions then just some real quick ones Mr. Sheldon at the beginning of this you said your dogs were not licensed with the city. Correct. Is there a reason for that? Because of this ongoing battle with the police department I have been non-compliant with a lot of their things it's basically come down to I believe that I will only get justice through the police and fire commission and so I have completely given up on trying to resolve this through the court system here in Sheboygan County and will be just my question was just in the license so just because that is a city rule for everybody. I agree and then do I have a question about your training certification? Yes sir. Do you have that present you said or no? I do not have my training certification present I can uh dig out my AKC certification for applying the canine good citizenship tests and provide that to you guys in a very timely manner. Okay any other questions from committee members? This is Donahue I have no questions time to move on. I guess I just have one quick um if you felt that uh perceptive means was the you know with the the aggressor and that there were very incident and you know you agreed to have her put down why did you have to go through we had to go through the whole rigmarole of the last time um why didn't you just have her put down then because she did do that aggressive bite why do you have to go through the whole which which which dog was it and things like that um the the the simple fact of the matter is Mr. Decker is that uh until they took the vicious designation off of Cronus I didn't know what was going to be happening and until I knew what was going to be happening I didn't want to prematurely do something that was not going to help resolve anything the fact that she needed to be put down was already basically agreed upon but I had her safely uh locked up in the house and there was going to be no further interactions with people and so I knew that I did not have the um onus of having to do it like that day because she was going to be kept isolated from the rest of the world until we could get things sorted out and then once the designation was placed on her and taken off of Cronus I believe it took me a week to to get things scheduled. Just another question too for you unless you have any questions. I want a couple one other um in the incident with the uh the young gentleman that was that's your your the renter okay are you denying that that happened are you saying that that he was bit I'm not denying that he was bit no no sir I am denying that it was Cronus. No I'm sorry I'm talking about the the the the the your current renter though the the the I'm sure what his name was the 15 year old. Oh Lidarius yes um Lidarius himself says he was never bit everyone I wouldn't say he was bit that he was chased oh that he was chased yeah I I I uh have talked with Lidarius and uh what he conveyed to me was that he ran when he saw the dog okay he never he never said that the dog chased him he said he saw the dog and ran so you would not have wanted him to testify then is it what I don't care if he wanted to testify in fact during the conversation during the conversation that I had with him and his mother I made it extremely clear to them that in no way shape or form was their tenancy hinged with with with this that they were within their rights to to disagree that they did not have to help me at all okay and I and I said all I want is for for you guys to you know just tell the truth if you if you go to the hearing I'm like that's all I'm asking if you go to the hearing just tell the truth and through the course of our conversation Deborah Berry became upset and said she just doesn't want to deal with the police at all that she doesn't want them coming and and you know asking all these questions all the time the police of their own volition had started stopping over just randomly asking her questions about my dogs without being called without being summoned they were just fishing for anything that they could use against me and she became so upset by the police constantly being there that through the course of the conversation when I was saying look you know if you guys go to the hearing just tell the truth you know that's all I asked and and they said you we don't even we don't we don't want anything to do with this I said would you be willing to sign a statement to that effect and and both her and Lidarius said yes and I said would it be okay bad answers that question oh I'm sorry that's all I just want straight answers I don't want that we don't my other question I apologize for my verbosity okay uh and the other question I would have is um the gentleman had pictures of your dogs like running loose uh in in the neighborhood how often does this happen and has this happened quite a bit as as far let those dogs out in the past or is this you know uh as far as I knew the dogs had only been loose once or twice and that was prior to me building the fence in fact that's what got me to finish the fence was the possibility that the dog was out of the yard I don't know that the dog was out of the yard I do know that Lidarius as far as he told me ran from the dog but was never chased by it okay you know and and the dog as far as I saw on that date had stayed in the yard on that date that's what I saw as far as the picture goes the picture clearly shows my dog not in the yard I don't know exactly what the time frame of that is I cannot say with certainty when that occurred regardless the the point is that I freely admit that it is possible that my dogs may have gotten out before the fence went up but now that the fence is up they have never when did you construct the fence almost when was the fence completed uh right around that that day was that a permitted fence was that a what is that a permitted fences that permitted did you get a permit with the city and a permit with the city yes you're a permanent fence like a permanent yeah yeah yeah like it's got the four by four something yeah did you get a permit to build that I I didn't I didn't I didn't I didn't know that I needed a permit to put up a fence I guess maybe I might have some paperwork to fill out somewhere or something that's all I guess that's all I have a next question for me is so we had eight seven witnesses here today neighbors of yours correct uh well there was two neighbors okay and then there was the manager of the humane society and that older gentleman who was oh three neighbors three neighbors okay so so we had a couple witnesses here today why do you think they all came here to testify I mean I'm just curious because clearly you know they waited about two hours to give their testimony you know ensured their concern about their fear about moving out from your dogs how you handled your dogs um you know your current neighbors here yes if I could just interrupt I think we're getting into wild speculation I think the parties have had more than time to set out their positions I think if committee members have questions they need to be extremely focused fact inquiries not asking for speculation quite frankly I think the time has come to move on all right with that we'll wrap it up thank you mr. Sheldon then mr. chair would either of you care to come and meet my dog please I'm not going to do that again this is not relevant to what we are talking about here today we need to move on well I do believe that if someone was able to come and interact with my dog with their we're opting not to we appreciate the opportunity though no I so so procedurally um if there's a motion to go into closed session I'll accept one I'll clarify the exhibits so that we know what we're what we're dealing with all right let me just ask this what I've taken note of uh was the appeal the two notices finding the dog to be one to be vicious one to be dangerous uh four photographs uh of the dogs which were marked as exhibit six seven eight nine uh the video uh of the LA hearing which is marked as 10 the video of the apartment in 1026 swift uh the police camera video which was 11 12 and 13 are citations 14 is a quarantine form 15 appears to have maybe been a photo of a jacket and then 16 quarantine information again regarding promise uh although that wasn't entirely clear to me 17 and 18 appear to be the injuries uh suffered by orata 19 the citation issued regarding orata then 21 and I'll get to 20 in a moment is a photograph of Odysseus um running loose um 20 appears to be the exhibit that um Mr. Shelton uh provided which was the letter from his tennis uh that he tied um so uh Lieutenant Adams did I get all of your exhibits correct first of all or were there others that I missed there's two that I think maybe or sorry there's a handful of citations that I think weren't entered while I was standing over there that were referenced which is two animal at large citations and four uh dangerous vicious dog citations which are the failure to comply with the dangerous dog ordinance and you'd like those also entered as exhibits yes please and then Mr. Shelton you wanted number 20 as your exhibit which was the letter uh from um your tenant as well as the videos of officer hubricks interacting with uh with my dogs as well as the text message from Demetria Berry confirming that she did not want to come to the court date today and uh you know just verifying uh I need to enter them do you have caught if you would hand them to uh I need to make a copy of the videos I I unfortunately do not have copies of the videos but I can I can get those as part of the testimony I don't recall it that nobody were not Mr. Shelton showed any videos yes I did how were they how were they uh shown to the elders who were not present they were not they were not shown to the elders not present but he did show us on his on his tablet to you as a committee whether you want to accept that but uh our our council rules do require that if you're going to have an exhibit it's got to be visible uh to those participating in the meeting what was the content of those videos that were not shown to the both of us it is officer hubricks uh interacting with my dogs and during the cross testimony he did in fact confirm that that was him interacting with my dogs injection to the entry of those exhibits not hearing any objection from anyone else will accept those I think what we'll do is we'll probably come back with some instructions on how you can get them uh get the copies directly to the uh the committee in the next few days thank you mr. Adams so any objection to each of and to any of the uh exhibits either by mr. Shelton to this to the police department's exhibits or by uh uh the police department to mr. Shelton's exhibits none from donahue no cool none from acre none from the parties either nope sounds like none so I will we'll consider those all to be exhibits and and we'll we'll deal with that once we go into closed session so that now is the time to make the motion to go into closed session would you like me to leave these with you guys for the closed session no no motion to convene in closed session under the exemption provided in subsection 19.85 subsection 1a of the wisconsin statue for the purpose of deliberation and serving the action to be taken regarding the appeal of chad selton okay there's been a motion to go into closed session in the second any discussion seeing none all those in favor of convening into closed session please state aye aye anyone opposed to an individual vote ryan all right good call everyone all right decker hi donahue hi acley hi feldi hi sorenson votes aye we're in closed session so you're gonna have to leave the room thank you yeah make sure that that um that they the that we're off the air yeah it looks like we're off the air council anything this is the longest meeting I've been in ever the golf course was a little longer I think this is almost four hours we'll be ever we'll be over four hey we still got other things on the agenda yes does he want to listen to it all right we are back in open session and we'll go on to item 6.1 possible action regarding appeal of chad selton city attorney we would just ask that you provide the physical copies of the documents that you wanted as exhibits we they were accepted as exhibits but we should get physical copies of that you can do that if if you if they're electronic that's perfectly fine if you want to email them to the city attorney's office that's fine or you can mail them to the city attorney's office as well or you can drop them off but our office is actually not open to the public right now so it's probably the best would be to mail them or to email them I can provide you if you would prefer one method or the other I can provide you either one of those just let me know and we can do that right now if if you have a preference email he said email my email I'll just have you direct it to me it's charles dot adams at sheboyganwi.gov and that is also it is on the web on the city's website if you if you lose that so that's what that's all I've got then any motion should be made by the by a member of the committee okay okay older Donahue thank you uh Mr. Chair um after due consideration of the extensive testimony that was presented at our hearing today I move that the committee upholds both of the determinations of the sheboygan police department finding that Cronus is a vicious dog as defined in the municipal code and that Persephone is a dangerous dog as defined in the Persephone it's not Persephone oh yes yes oh this yes I'm sorry this yes my apology all right there's been a motion in a second is there a second second right there's been a motion second any further any further discussion from committee members seeing none all those in favor please state aye aye anyone oppose chairman votes aye that's upheld all right moving along item 7.1 RO number 98 2021 submitting various license applications for the period ending June 30th 2020 2022 change of premise application for 3381 and once again we're holding it at my ears request motion to hold um all right there's been a motion second to hold any further discussion on holding this item see no problem barb go for it sure um how long is this the same as like the beverage license that we can hold it until um the current license expires I mean how far can we keep pushing this one out honestly this one could probably be held even beyond that because all it is is premises um they just I I Julie has been working with them and I think they they've had other things that are more important going on and and and they they basically said they're they're because they can do the the sales of everything other than alcohol and that's their primary concern this has been kind of a low priority um they'll they'll fix it all right thank you what's it what's the premise change it it is where it is I don't understand I guess it's to allow delivery so when you pull up in your car okay so they have to include that area in the premises that that's all and and they just haven't they haven't done that clearly that okay they'll take care of it okay okay not like now I get it okay man any further discussion seeing none all those in favor please stay died hi hi anyone opposed chair votes hide that is held again 7.2 ro number 117 2021 submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31st 2021 and June 30 2022 this was the ro where most of them were held from last time and so some I'll just let you know Thomas Bogart Jr. has withdrawn his license application so you will not need to act on that other than to file um we are we're recommending that you hold the tax to cab drivers license of Darren L Felton and then we're recommending granting the remainder of the license is there motion to approve staff's recommendations on that item motion to approve by staff reference recommendation all right there's been a motion in multiple seconds any further discussion seeing none all those in favor please stay die hi hi and you want to pose chair votes I 7.3 ro number 120 2020 120 2021 submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31st 2021 and June 30 2022 so in this case we are recommending holding the massage massage establishment license entourage salon and spa pending completion of their application uh oh and actually I that has now come that that was taken care of today so you don't need to hold that one sorry about that um we are recommending granting Kristen hillbillings taxi cab drivers license renewal with a warning to follow the law while driving taxi cab she did receive a warning and a citation for two separate incidents of traffic violations while driving just in the last four months so but that's a grant with a warning and all other licenses on the application can be granted motion is there motion to approve by stack by staff recommendations all right there's been a motion second there's been a motion second any further discussion seeing none all those in favor of accepting staff for staff's recommendation on that please stay die hi hi anyone opposed chair votes I next meeting January 27 no we've met enough we don't have to meet anyone yeah we we we did all our meetings worth this is just the first these are how all the meetings are going to go the rest of the year all right is there motion is there a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn or a second oh there's been a motion in multiple seconds all those in favor of adjourning please stay die I anyone opposed chair votes I we are adjourned at 805