 Hello, welcome to Kwok Talk, I'm Crystal here in Think Tech. This Tuesday we're going to talk about some Chinese issues. Now there's a real stereotype out there, or cliche maybe even, that a lot of Chinese moms are tiger moms. Now what does it mean to be a tiger mom? This phrase was kind of coined, you know, not too long ago, based on a famous book that kind of re-emphasized the fact that a lot of Asian moms, particularly Chinese, maybe Korean and Japanese, are very, very strict in controlling about their kids. Well, in fact, there are some that aren't so controlling and some who don't or want to defy certain types of control because there's some other elements in importance in how to raise children. So I've got some two very interesting women, two different moms here, single moms in fact, who have a different attitude on raising kids. So let's welcome them. Let's talk about this a little bit, about how not all Chinese women are tiger moms. Welcome non-tiger moms. Are you both professed non-tiger moms? Let's put it out there first. Definitely not tiger moms at all. Not even a little bit. Not even a little bit. Do you see very calm and peaceful, so I don't think you're a tiger mommy. Let's welcome them. So Katherine Lin. Katherine Lin is a president of Nihao Media and you have a daughter who is how old? She's 14. Okay. Oh, you're now 25. Yes, I know you are. I hear you there. And Kun Kun. Yes. You're Chinese. Your full name is Bao Kun Duan. Yes. And you have a very interesting background with the foundation that has to do with preserving art. Yes. We founded the Academy of Himalayan Art and actually the foundation serves a few purpose. One is preserve the dying out Himalayan culture. And second is to develop the culture mature into children curriculum. Specifically into their schooling. Into more, I think, into their family education side, which I personally think is more important sometimes than the school curriculum. Absolutely. Well, let's talk a little bit about, okay, so putting school aside, we as parents, particularly women maybe, let's talk about your background. So we'll kind of gather how that influenced your perspective as a parent. You grew up in, let's give a little bit of a nutshell. I was born to a Chinese father, a Northern Chinese father, and a Taiwanese mother. Was your mom a tiger mom? My mom was not a tiger mom, and I think for the most part, you know how people say we raise our children according to how we were raised. Or we rebelled 130. Exactly. So in my case, I am raising my child exactly how my mom raised me. My mom was a very, very queer oriented person. Okay. So on one hand, she's a very strong woman, but on the other hand, she also believed in letting myself and my brother develop our own personality. So now, looking back, and this is very rare, I grew up in Asia until I was 17. In Taiwan? In Taipei. Yes. My mother actually had never, ever pushed me or my brother to get straight A's. But that's very rare, because people, parents who know Asian academics, it's like everything is steady, steady, steady. You don't have time for extracurricular activities. Right. Okay. So you're very fortunate. I'm very, very blessed. Yes. Therefore, my daughter, Kristianne, she was born and raised in the U.S., actually in Honolulu, Hawaii. Yes. She's a local girl. Yes. So when she was born, I knew exactly how I was going to raise her. Really? Yeah. And I mean, up until now, she's 14 and a half. I never had to push her or tell her to go to her homework. She's a very self-disciplined type of young lady. So... So what do you think your concept is? If you allow them the freedom to explore, they will find their way to grasp it? You know, the way I look at it is boundaries are important. Yeah. However, I don't want to give her so much rules and regulations to suffocate. Okay. You know, to... I want her to be able to grow up and let her personality shine through. Yes. Totally agree. Yeah. And the whole reason why I stay in Hawaii for 16 years, I can say my primary reason is for my daughter. Ah. Is for her to grow up in a place where, in my opinion, I think this is one of the best places to raise children in the world. Okay. Wow. Okay. So it sounds like you're very clear on your parenting concept and knowing how to give her that. Yes. Kun Kun, you grew up in a very different environment. Yes. And you have a daughter who is quite young. Yes. Yes. So I actually was born in Kunming and in the military family. Oh, wow. I grew up on a military air force base and which, that was the defense line between China and Vietnam. So I grew up watching the fighters took off. Wow. Were there women in the military? Yes. Yes. But most of the women there, like doing the administration and sporting, but... So my father was, he was not a pilot, but he was controlling the back station, I think. Okay. So, you know, how military concept during the 1970s. Oh, gosh, in China? Yeah. So all my pictures taken childhood was has the four leaders' big pictures behind me. I'm standing on the stairway. It was the old, you know, those driving stairs to the plane. Oh, wow. I used to fly when I was very young. From Kunming to Beijing, I would get on the plane to deliver goods to the Chinese leaders, I think. Wow. Yeah. So I started flying really young, but because of a certain concept of education in their mind and they're very disciplined people. So I would say my mom was a tiger mom. Okay. Because I was never perfect in her eyes. And she's big dreamer in her life, but she went through the times of China that she never really had the opportunity to learn and to bring out whatever her dreams in life. Basically, what Catherine is providing for her daughter, you were not allowed to have and she didn't have it. Yeah. I'll give you an example. I really love music. So when I saw piano first time in TV, I said, I want to play piano. So my mom took me to a piano teacher and they said my little fingers too short. I would never be a good piano player. You know, let's just cue your dream life right there. And plus my mom sending there saying, you know, being an artist, you will not never make your life. Yes. Then my dad would say, why don't you be a doctor? Of course. And so their generation is the ones you really should go for academic and go for the A's and study hard, go to Qinghua, Beijing, you know, we said that's what they're looking for. Carry into a nice, rich, good family background, right? Yeah. But you know how life, my life is very dramatic and I'm the only child. I'm the typical result of the family planning. And my parents were so loyal to the party. But unfortunately, they both passed away very young age. So my mom died, 52, my father died, 45. Let me clarify for people who don't realize that the family planning in China until recently was a one-child system. And so you think about it. You've depleted all your, you had no cousins, no siblings, no one to go with. I grew up very lonely. And then, so I was a rebelling kid. I was very strong against my mom's policy. Do you think this is a personality thing? Do you think that's something that as much as a parent wants to control their child, it comes from you, yourself, that you, do you think, both of you? I vow? No, I think so. Your personality. Oh. Yeah. I think parents influence the kids. We have fear in our life. And if we have negative energy, we try to pass down. We unconsciously pass this energy to our children. And we seem worried to lose them or lose control of something. And then you automatically, without knowing it unconsciously, you're controlling your kids. Oh, that's really interesting. Yeah. I think from my point of view is, it's 50-50. I do believe parenting played a big role in influencing children, but I do believe every one of us were born with our own personalities, too. But it needs time to develop. It does. And it needs the space, the freedom to develop. And for me, I can say that because I went through this period of time that I knew from a very young age. I was 11. I knew when I was 11 that I was going to come to the U.S. and study in the U.S. Yeah. Was it a rebellious period where you wanted to defy your parents? I think my rebellious period was when I so wanted to come to the U.S., to leave the Asian society. Why did you want to leave the Asian society? I never felt like a fit-in. Was it because of the controlling element that we're talking about here? I think an Asian society is, generally speaking, a much more conservative society. Right. I'm a very free-spirited type of person. Are you saying that there are no free spirits in Asia? There are, but it's a lot more limited. Yeah. Yeah. And even now when I go back to Asia, I think I can really feel that. I mean, Asia is kind of the way. It's a controlling society, right? And sometimes it's not necessarily the controlling, it's just the atmosphere. Well, and look at the education, right? It's people's opinion. Look at the education. You have so much that you have to do that you don't have the space to explore your interests. Traveling. You know, let's do traveling, for example, to me. The moment, since the moment that my daughter was born, it has been such a big element in our life. Because I'm a firm believer that we learn while we travel. Absolutely. Right? But not everyone has the ability to do that. And not only that, I think in Asia, if my daughter were going up in Asia, it would be a much different story. Oh, sure. Because school would never allow her to be out of school one or two weeks every month. Right. Right? So I think in American society, we have a little bit more flexibility. And that's why both of you are very non-conventional in the ways. I mean, Kun Kun, you mentioned briefly last time that you had stayed a year in Bhutan. Was this with your daughter? Yeah. I mean, she was quite very young. Not quite the one time, stayed a year. So back to the story then, I started my, last 10 years ago, I started preserving the Dying Out Himalayan culture. And then I discovered that I asked myself a question. Why do humans even preserve culture? And then I realized through learning from the old artists, the grandma, grandpa, about 100 years old, in the Himalayan villages, they're full of light, their eyes are pure like a lake. And they taught me something because all our value, our human wisdom is hidden in the heritage, in the culture. And so there's only a purpose, one purpose to pass it on is for your younger generation. And then since then, I started to look at the whole education concept. What is education? Yes. Education is a Latino word. It means bring out, not pounding in. Which is what a lot of Asian cultures do. Yes. It's all that. And actually our ancient ancestors in Asia did not teach kids just pounding in. If you study about the Yijing and the Feng Shui and Laozi and Confucius, and they let you learn the rules of the universe and rules of nature first. And then we say Zhi Ji, Zhi Bi, Bai Zhuang Bu Dai. That means you have to know yourself first. We don't teach kids to learn about our own body, how your body, how your five senses are connecting with your parents, connecting with the society, connecting with the nature. And if our children grew up in the more nature environment, they will learn from the nature, they will learn from the animals running in the Himalaya mountains. When I go to the villages, the children are singing everything. Every. Their spirit. Yeah, their spirit is free. And the songs, the folk songs, they are talking about the holy mountains, the rainbow after the... It's quite simple. You can parallel to the Hawaiian culture, right? Yes. And that's why you said it's a perfect place to rear children because you feel that energy is spiritual. Exactly. Yeah. And Christian has become a surfer girl. Oh, good. She's in tune with the ocean and the earth. Yeah. And I think for the most part that really defines who she is today. What distinguishes as a mom bringing up, as a single mom bringing up a child, how does that differ from conventional two-parent household to a daughter, for example? I mean, would you do something different if it was a boy that you had? I would not. She was born in New York, my daughter, and then I did not want to raise her up in states at all. Okay. Let's hold on to that thought because now we're bringing in like the American culture and the influence and the difference with Asian culture and how we as parents are controlling the path that they're taking, but yet allowing them to thrive in it. So don't go away. We have lots of philosophical, very important parenting issues to talk about here. So we'll see you soon. Aloha. My name is Joe Kent and I'm the Vice President of Research at the Grassroot Institute of Hawaii. The Grassroot Institute is a public policy think tank and we try to build a better economy in Hawaii and you can see us on the TV show Ehana Kako on the ThinkTek Hawaii Broadcasting Network every Monday at 2 o'clock. We'll see you there and let's build a better Hawaii together. Aloha. Thank you for watching ThinkTek. I'm Grace Chang, the new host for Global Connections. You can find me here live every Thursday at 1 p.m., where we'll be talking to people around the islands or visiting the islands who are connected in various aspects of global affairs. So please tune in and Aloha and thanks for watching. Hello. Welcome back. We're Quok Talk. Okay, if you didn't understand that I'm talking to two beautifully philosophical and open-minded mothers, Chinese mothers here, talking about parenting as a single mom, as a Chinese mom, as a non-conventional mom who chooses a path to rear their children in a very specific, free way. So let's talk about that back again with Catherine and Kun Kun. I know that break we mentioned how your decisions to move to the states is actually a very purposeful decision for your daughters and what difference that would make if they had grown up in Asia. So any following up on that one and why? I think for me, I mean you and I both went through that Asian type of education, you longer than me. But is it different though, Taiwan and Chinese education, what would you say distinguishes the difference? I think it's pretty much the same. It's all very Tian Ya. You just memorize everything. I remember as a child growing up, especially in high school, I was in school from 7.30 in the morning until 5 in the afternoon. And we all have to go to after school, school from 7 o'clock to 10 o'clock at night. Exactly. So to me, when I made the decision to come to the U.S. for my higher education, and I also made up my mind that one day when I have children, my children are going to receive education in the U.S. Because I do believe that in the U.S. that's where creativity, that's where innovation comes from. But a lot of mainland, when I say mainland, I mean China mainland, a lot of them are trying because they have these resources to send their kids to the states to study. I mean, they're coming, they're flooding in, but they don't have any intention to stay. They want to come for the education and bring it back. So do you think that's different from what you're talking about in rearing your daughter here? Because you're moving here. You're in the process of moving here with your daughter, right? Yes. My understanding of education truly is because when she came into my life, and I suddenly realized being a mom, having a live person now, you were fully responsible for her past. But being a Buddhist, I thought, what is more important for this child to grow up? I think, to me, I told her when she was three months old, I was talking to her. I said, nothing is more important if I could assist you to plant the bodysit in your heart when you, as young as possible, to grow up in a pure environment, to understand the true value as a human and your relationship as a human to the universe, to the society, to other beings. And so I thought I would take her to travel to all the places, has all the culture, all the holistic environment, has all these loving kind of people who would, you know, just unstraight with smile at her and talk to her. So the environment is very important in influencing a child. I think so. And as a parent, as a mom, I think in the Asian time, the female in the society plays a very important role. In Bhutan nowadays, when they build houses, they would only use women to hunk the mud wall because it's very sacred. They think women are the foundation of a home and the man would put the roof on. So when they hunked the wall, they chant, they sing happily. Everything in the Himalaya mountains happened in the rhythm, in the vibration that where I think is the pulse of the earth. The pulse of the earth. Listen to that. There's a lot to digest. That's a very, very big statement, and it's a beautiful, beautiful concept. I want to go back to the concept, the fact that you're both single moms, if you don't mind sharing how you got to that position, or maybe not, or how that, or the pressures you have from family or from Chinese society of that. Is there a stigma? Do you find difficulties that you wish were otherwise? Share that. You know, to me, I believe what's meant to be, whatever it's meant to be is meant to be. The path that I belong, since my daughter was two and a half years old, single motherhood, I have no regrets about that. You never came close to remarrying or wanting to? I was engaged once, but again, that wasn't meant to be. Right. Yeah, but, you know, to me, the reason why I took my daughter traveling extensively with me, two reasons. One is for practical reason, because as a career woman, my media work and my mergers and acquisition work takes me to many different parts of the world. I have an office in New York. I travel to Beijing and Shanghai quite often. I now start an office in Panama, in Latin America. So if I were to spend enough time with my daughter, I have to bring her with me. Absolutely. So that's out of necessity. But the second reason is what we were just talking about. You know, I'm a firm believer of learning while traveling. I want her to grow up to be an open-minded person. But going back to being a single woman, raising a child in American society, I have to say there are challenges. Of course there are. I mean, just like every other parent, we all go through our challenges. However, I do find, you know, some perks, being a single mom. So what are the perks? I always share with my girlfriends that, you know, being a single mom, that means I can go wherever I want to, whenever I want to go, right? I don't have to check in with anybody. Do you have to check in with your daughter? She's the only person that I have to check in with. Do you respect her concepts of when she doesn't approve of your partners or anything like that? You know, I take that into consideration quite a lot because I do believe in harmony. Right. You both are so Buddhist. There's something deep that you, it comes back to something, it's not to do with being Chinese, but there's something deeper I feel. Spirituality. It's a spirituality. What is your concept of being a single mom? Yeah. As you know, I lost my parents when they were very young. And so I was alone. Who brought you up then? And I just, you know, that was, my mom died, I already started work and good jobs and I was supporting her. And said goodbye to her and then I was like a kite cutting the thread off. When that moment happened, I felt the, I was so far away, like I was moving away from the earth physically. Wow. Yeah. That's kind of sense. And then of course I was very devoted to my practice as well. So I thought, okay, maybe this is how life arranged me just to get on the journey of enlightenment. And then I realized it's not that easy just to go alone. And then I asked myself, is this only one thing I have not done on the earth as to be a mom? So I just decided to be a mom, meaning how did you do that? Yeah, she just, I just went to the sperm bank. How do you say that? In the States or in China? Yeah. Did it happen in China? In New York, right? Yeah. In New York. Yeah. Not at that stage. Yeah. I had a marriage, but that was a beautiful, short marriage and, and, and, and, and I actually before I made my decision to become mom, I went to Tibet and just want to become a nun. And my teacher didn't take me. Why? And he said, think about why Buddha became a Buddhist. He was thinking of all the sufferers of all beings. And even you come in the monastery now will not solve, solve your problem you're having in your mind. You should go out back to the world, figure out everything. Wow. And so I said to myself, Lynn, alright, there's one more thing I think, one more course. And truly when my daughter came in my life, I realized, and that is, that, that is how it works. She came to teach me the ultimate course of a class before I took. That is amazing. That is like just, I'm getting like, chill, I'm not like, it's just, okay. So it's interesting that, so we learn from our children. Let's talk a little bit about that. How would we learn and how they force us to learn? I think through so many different ways. I would just, funny, we were just talking about that yesterday because to me, you know, my daughter, seeing she was a little baby, I have to say she was amazingly great. She was so lucky. It was problematic. She was like most moms there. My mom always told me, she looked at my daughter and we're always traveling seeing she was a little baby. She said, you know, gosh, I've never seen another baby that's as portable as your child. You know, you can, you can look at her when she's three and say, hey, we're going to New York tomorrow. She packs her back and you guys are on the airplane six hours later. You know, but, but I think my challenge actually came in a different form. My daughter, unfortunately, starting two years ago, started developing some pretty serious medical issues. So she started with scoliosis that was getting worse literally every month. So we started to travel to Los Angeles to see doctors at Cedars-Sinai and L.A. Children's Hospital pretty much every four to three years. So you had to readjust your kind of priorities? Absolutely. I actually took almost a year off from traveling just to be with her because to me, that's important, you know. And other than scoliosis, she recently got diagnosed with some autoimmune system disorder. So that has been a really big challenge because now I'm put in a position that not only have to be a single mom, playing the role of being both mom and dad, I have to also be there as a counselor as well. Because this is not an easy role for her. However, I have to say, she has been amazingly positive. If you just look at her, you wouldn't be able to tell she's been through so many medical issues. So how do you think you've learned from this process? You feel like, why have I given this on my plate? You know, I'm already working hard and doing what I can, but I get more on my plate. You can't do the blame game. Some people do. Do you think we're destined to have what we have and it changes us for the positive and if you can figure out how to do that? Absolutely. I am a much better person today compared to two years ago before she was diagnosed. I am much more patient, I'm calmer and I do feel I'm stronger than two years ago. What about you, Gungun? What are some big challenges for you coming forward? Because how old is she now? Five and a half. Right. So you've got a lot of phases to go through. Yeah. As she said, we were just chatting. I said, my daughter is the opposite energy. She comes to challenge me every day. I believe so. I love her. She is a little spark. Yes. But I learned I become younger through her eyes, we're looking at the world. When we travel, she would say things that is so beautiful and so fairytale and actually make me think, I used to be like this. Why can't I look at the world in her eyes, through her eyes again? You know, there's a beautiful film in China, in fact, about the view through the eyes of a five-year-old boy based on a true story. Yeah. So that's how... That's the first thing I've learned to look at the world in a different angle through her eyes. Right. Second, they are... I think the kids nowadays came to earth are stronger souls and far more smarter than us. That's a good example. And, you know, as a Buddhist, I train myself every day to observe my senses, my emotions, my conscious. I should always be aware of what's going on. So sometimes, as a mom, especially, when I try to help her to build a healthy living habit, for example, fold your own clothes when she's five and a half, and she sometimes doesn't want to do it. And it was one time I was really getting a little bit at the edge of my nerve, and I reached my voice. She said, are you step... my stepmother? Oh, wow. So that's interesting. Fairytale, sorry we have no more time, but what I'm getting from both of you is the spirituality, the deepness, and to learn from your children, to see life through the eyes of your children, it is so important. And you both are so different, but so similar. And the spirituality and the energy is just amazing. Thank you so much for sharing so much, and I hope you learned a little bit too. And again, just enjoy your children and enjoy everything. Thank you for tuning in.