 And our mobility within the region has been even more challenged. And there is an necessity. We all need an necessity to be working together more. But what is the framework of this? The framework that could be handled? And how can we start building trust among the different operators? And is this working in the field? To be able to take as a step further any chance of working together in it? Can we start with the essence? So I will need also essence. Absolutely. I talk to you in a very organic manner today. This is probably glottic. The other issue that we find today, as we found all of us, is the fact that we do have networking models. Some problems we inform them. It seems as if the success was one of the models of networking that were motivated or were driven or were inspired by a Western funder, a non-advertisement funder. We are not established or conceived as a result of an organic process between the organizations. And we actually have two examples of this on this panel. So this is a very important question that we have to ask ourselves. What are the advantages and disadvantages of this model? Does this model work? Is it inclusive enough? Does it make people feel a sense of ownership of these networks? On the other hand, we are seeing many models of cooperation projects that I have not necessarily framed in the definition of a network. Yet they do operate as a network. This is an issue that I wish we discussed among each other and I wish the panelists would focus on also in their presentation. Another issue that we have to address now is the fact that with this issue of refugee which is in the Arab region, national networks or networks within the countries are changing in shape and form. Now the majority of the operators are not in their home countries. We as citizens have an experience with this. We have 50 to 60 years. But now with the Syrian situation in South Africa, even in next traumatic countries where operators are choosing to leave the country and are living in different places, how do you work around this issue of changing the meaning of geography and how do you network among artists from the same nationalities scattered all around the world within the region and all around the world. This is on the other challenge. We would be short. Each panelist is going to introduce herself. We will speak only for five minutes because we wanted to allow more time for discussion and interaction and networking between the audience. I will be back to Hassan now to introduce himself and talk about the initiative. My name is Hassan. I initiated the first independent theatre company in Egypt in Washington which does long research and training projects out of which come productions. We do a lot of outreach and doing the most glorious thing I've been doing in 2014. And we do. We've always done networking before there were really networks in recognize networks in the other world. We, one of our aims was to strengthen the independent sector. We created a network in the early in the late 90s called the Arab Arts Project which gradually disappeared and left the Arab Theatre Fund which became independent of the Arab Arts Project and continued. And there's also the Arab Theatre Training Centre that is established in Lebanon and it starts by people from Jordan, Bahrain and Lebanon. We also twin as a company with the Lebanese Theatre Company in Jordan and developed what was a small theatre festival into a big important focal point for Arab independent artists which also gradually developed a big network of partners and curators and so on in Amman. And then came the Massey. So I just think of a very short description of the Massey and I'll do it in Arabic. The Assasin, the Gawba, the Massey and I'll give you the mania. It was published in 2008 to support the international arts and it's made out of 11 performing arts organizations from Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Palestine and these are organizations who have long experience in these arts in a way that shows how we deeply believe in the pivotal role of culture and art in achieving social and political justice. The Massey Collective also aims at enhancing our capacity as independent organizations to resist people who want to marginalize arts and we work in the countries of the Minar region in general and the Palestinian artists in particular that are being isolated so we try to break that and maximize the resources available for the performing arts sector to enable it to grow in a vital, sustainable and viable way in our region and worldwide as well. There is also this idea of being distinguished from others because sometimes we are asked to do something other than this art privilege as it was said yesterday about the dead people in Garden Speaks so the idea here is sustainability. I don't want to go into details because I want to listen also to the other speakers and to the audience now I'll go back to English. I want to start from the idea of working together and doing things and the net growing organically from our collaborations with all the difficulties we know inherent to human nature and so on and in the objective difficulties in the environment we're working in but it's always been part of an idea that we want to, like in Laos, being virtual is not enough I mean you really have to engage. One of the big challenges is foreign funding because of the suspicion that it always is maybe a little less so now when the agent is coming back in African constituency, among our peers and also from our autocratic rulers who themselves are much more dependent on foreign funding than we are but that are always attacking us on this and using the fact that it's always this suspicion of normalization with isolation and all this kind of stuff. I suppose there is a justification for this and this was said yesterday in a job in a manner I can't compete with the guy who talked about the Middle East and what we always wanted to know about it and that is the double standard of the West very often in dealing with political and historical questions in our region, Palestine to name a few and the fact that the power the powers that we in the West are supporting the theocratic states and the movements theocratic and providing arms to the dictators who are turning them against their people and so on so I mean negotiating in the middle of all this the cultural and artistic funding is very very difficult. Also the clustering I mean we organically created all sorts of connections before they were called networks but there is always this idea that it is cheaper by the dozen. So if you negotiate with 11 organizations which is what we are including Shams in Lebanon and Amal-e-Zee in Cairo and these are the people you probably know most it is cheaper to administratively and in terms of cost and when cost to negotiate with 11 organizations then do it individually and the people who help us network systematically and that is the Swedish, the Swedish graces who sort of solve this clustering coming as a fate and so they help us gradually learn to live together and work together and not be used to working together in fact we work to be there in the dead together with our community that very much networked but not our profession so much we always try to give our networks despite the pressure from outside a kind of backbone based on the belief that scent is in unity despite our diversity our diversity and that one man's meat maybe another man's meat rather than necessarily the poison and now the challenges I think that we are up against urgently now is to assure the perennity of not only our organizations but of our vision and our drive against the erosion of time I think that organizations come to the idea of perennity and then they have to find ways of reviewing themselves and I think that young people all over the world now are creating new forms and new ideas that we should be maybe this time leaving Liberation on the other day a fantastic thing the collective catastrophe which I advise people to look at and then we have to find ways to to work together with our differences we have problems, interpersonal problems to do with temperaments so we have to create our internal laws to be able to continue to work together and to continue our relationship maybe the rest of the country because I think you raised many important questions that probably come up in the discussion but two comments that come to my mind that we first should keep in mind is the role of the networks in advocacy for the whole sector I wish this would be actually discussed because if you have a network of 6-7 organizations working for the development of their organization this is fantastic but the magnitude of work in terms of lobbying and advocacy that is needed in our country is huge and I'd like to hear more about the programs in the regards of engaging bigger audiences more than the partner organizations the other issue about something I think there is a difference between a hundred projects and a project that is totally driven in a way and this is something that I wish would be raised again in the discussion there is a difference between people deciding to mobilize together or realizing it's easier for them to manage the funds so let's get people together it doesn't mean that one is better than one but it means that the results of it's expected and the dynamic of the process would be a big difference so from the regional to the local Palestine has its first network program network and Iman Hamori is here to talk about it and to talk also about some employment projects that created some projects that created employment networks in the social sector thank you I'm going to talk about Iman Hamori I'm the head of the popular sector and the network for the arts in Palestine but before speaking about this network I need to speak about an inspiring experience that's made it possible for us to create sustainable and successful it was necessary for us to protect the civil works done by Palestinians and this is for all sectors and through this we're able to face occupation so when the authority was created there was an attempt to weaken this organization whether through laws or through imposing difficult laws on them or through asking the donors to do their donations through the authority the Palestinian Authority so we have suffered from that for years but we have done all that was necessary to protect the Palestinian resilience and resistance so this was able to create a lot of achievements and it was necessary to find a way through more efforts to succeed even more this is why we decided to have networks that are more specialized so we created the network without working on it to become more mature so there was no maturity and the pre-discussions and the vision and the discussion and the debates this is why it waited for one year or two years then it disappeared then again in 2010 and 2011 there was this need to have some kind of an assembly or a gathering because the donors were trying to stop their funding for the cultural sector in Palestine and this was a problem also the mediator who was from the same country wanted to stop these donations for other cultural sectors so here we needed to intervene so that the sector can continue and there was kind of lobbying from our gathering so we could work all together for the perinity of our project so we were able to actually succeed in this program and this is the cultural program especially performance arts in 2015 the network was registered and we had a feeling of ownership towards this gathering because we had hot debates because we didn't all have the same vision we didn't all have the same way of thinking and the same way of working and each one of us thought of themself as being the emperor and we used to think about the others who are they to work we always thought that we were better than the others but today with all sincerity it's not because I want to do some promotion for our work no but now we have more trust I'm not saying that this is a rosy picture but out of the 12 members I can say that among 8 or 9 of the 12 members we have total harmony and we also want the work to be outside the framework yes in the beginning we said that we want the network to serve only its members but now we are working on a 5 year plan to see how we can serve the cultural sector in general so this is a very important element that is advocacy and lobbying on the level of the culture inside the country to see how we can work on the official level as well we are also thinking of pressuring and exerting pressures on the donors in the way they support the cultural sector yes I know that sometimes we have the human rights issue but if we don't care about the cultural sector as a sector on its own a disaster for us there are also other networks I don't want to say that these are coalitions but I can say that they more work on coordinating programs like Alandia Dawli like us for example and three other organizations we work on a children's festival but this is more a work of coordinating programs and not a real network it doesn't work on advocacy and lobbying but now in the performance art company a big part of our work is lobbying and exerting pressures so that we can change some of the policies the last point that I want to say is that I'm here today because people in the network trust that I'll be here representing the 12 members of the network and because the network is interested in working and coordinating with other networks around yesterday you spoke about donations and funding and this morning we said that we need to meet as networks we need to meet once a year and maybe we can find something practical for the coming years to see how we can really have an impact on the funding policy with all the partners the European partners and the Arab partners on the regional, local and international levels so that there is a plan to be able to exert pressures on the funding partners so that they can change their cultural policies thank you thank you Iman I have only one observation working on advocacy and lobbying is very important for the whole sector and I see this is evolution and development and the networking because for now this is the only network that is clear in Palestine but I'm afraid of having like only geographical networks like having one in Jerusalem and another one in Gaza because when you have this then all your efforts will be disparate and won't be joined the idea that there is a trend in Palestine to separate and divide the country more and more first of all yes we have the Israeli occupation but if we see the funders or the circumstances and the wall you see that there are people trying to divide Palestine so that we have the West Bank alone, Gaza alone so that it seems that we're not one state so I'm afraid that if there is another network in Palestine this is making things more dangerous on the level of the division so I know that there are people who would like this much so we shouldn't be subjected to it and networks should be gathering people and not dividing them or separating them from each other whether from the donors or the authority or ourselves it doesn't matter about this issue in the authority or a part of the law it imposes some limitations these networks are also for the Palestinians that are outside Palestine and for the Palestinians of 1948 and for Gaza as well but we cannot be officially registered for the people of 1948 and we said that they need to be with us maybe in an informal way so that all Palestinians are represented within our network let us now speak about the local level now we went from the regional to the national and now to the local we have Soufian from Tunisia he will be displaying now a movie about Dream City it's about promoting the relationship maybe it's not something formal but it's about networking with the society and the stakeholders in general so we'll watch the movie and then we'll give Soufian some time to explain it to us after this movie I don't know if the second part was translated but in brief today we have the Ministry of National Education a convention in order to invest in all the schools in Tunisia with a gaming program the first part is the schools from a space dedicated to artistic gestures and artistic practice in primary schools where we did not have artistic gestures and the others for the second part today is through a network that we have established all high art institutes in Tunisia will be working in the framework of a protocol that will lead in 2018 also other networks I don't want to say that these are coalitions but I can say that they more work on coordinating programs like Kalandia Dawli like us for example and three other organizations we work on a children's festival but this is more a work of coordinating programs and not a real network and it doesn't work on advocacy but now and the performance art company a big part of our work is lobbying and exerting pressures so that we can change some of the policies the last point that I want to say is that I'm here today because people in the network trust that I'll be here representing the 12 members of the network and because the network is interested in working and coordinating with other networks around yesterday you spoke about the donations and funding and this morning we said that we need to meet as networks we need to meet once a year and maybe we can find something practical for the coming years to see how we can really have an impact on the funding policy with all the partners the European partners and the Arab partners on the regional local and international levels so that there is a plan to be able to exert pressures on the funding partners so that they can change their cultural policies. Thank you Thank you Iman I have only one observation working on advocacy and lobbying is very important for the whole sector and I see this as evolution and development and the networking because for now this is the only network that is clear in Palestine but I'm afraid of having only geographical networks like having one in Jerusalem and another one in Gaza because when you have this then all your efforts will be disparate and won't be joined the idea that there is a trend in Palestine to separate and divide the country more and more not everyone yes first of all yes we have the Israeli occupation but if we see the funders or the circumstances and the wall you see that there are people trying to divide Palestine so that you have the West Bank alone Gaza alone so that it seems that we're not one state so I'm afraid that if there is another network in Palestine I think this is making things more dangerous on the level of the division so I know that there are people who would like this much so we shouldn't be subjected to it and networks should be gathering people and not dividing them or separating them from each other whether from the donors or the authority or ourselves it doesn't matter about this issue in the authority or a part of the law imposes some limitations are also for the Palestinians that are outside Palestine and for the Palestinians of 1948 and for Gaza as well but we cannot be officially registered for the people of 1948 and we said that they need to be with us maybe in an informal way so that the represented so that all Palestinians are represented within our network let us now speak about the local level now we went from the regional and now to the local we have Soufian from Tunisia he will be displaying now movie about Dream City it's about promoting the relationship maybe it's not something formal but it's about networking with the society and the stakeholders in general yes so we'll watch the movie and then we'll give Soufian some time to explain it to us after this movie I don't know the second part was translated but in the subject where we teach a school today we have the Ministry of National Education a convention over four years in order to invest in all the schools in Tunisia with a gaming program the first part is to transform the schools from a space dedicated to artistic gestures artistic practice in primary schools where we did not have artistic gestures and outsiders for the second part today is through a network that we have established all high art institutes in Tunisia will be working in the framework of a protocol that will lead in 2018 to the construction of an educational and artistic program dedicated to children aged between 5 and 12 years it will be a national program that will be developed on the Tunisian territory as of the end of 2018 what's interesting is the exchange of knowledge so that this protocol will be transferred from one part of Tunisia to the other we will be covering the whole Tunisian territory and all in order for the schools to be developed it will be tailor made to the specificities of each territory and the relevant practices this mechanism will be used in different regions because it's highly important to be able to be connected today to establish relationships with these chaotic regions after the popular uprisings in Tunisia in fact with we have a high trust in human nature in order to be able to implement our project in Tunisia that's why we have to work closely with the population in order to get to know the emergencies the desires the hopes the dreams based on artistic practice and the capacity of artists to perform projects with a real aesthetic while focusing on the artistic quality and the quality of the approach in order to be able to meet the science related emergency and a political one thank you just one please my networking of building a program I will move to the there's no longer the other side of things because everybody is now connected but would you like to tell us a bit about your work of connection to the region and your experience in networking the needs my perspective is a little bit different geographically but also in the work that I did so I'm managing a series I work with it and I'm using it I work for the Planters Parks Institute so we are a supporting organization Planters Parks Institute we are a supporting organization based in Brussels, Belgium and we work for the support of the professional parks and planters I work there as a research coordinator so what I would like to share here is my personal experience it's also because I'm not organizing or running a network I've been participating in networks like ITM or Research Networks which we also in our work at Institute reflect on international collaboration so we think a little bit also about what does it mean to network what does it mean for us for the sector in Planters for the last couple of decades so I'd like to share with you and in that sense I'd like to connect to the first question which you raised so have we been successful in networking I think Planters and Brussels is really a good example of what services could be developed through networking in that sense and let's say in the 1980s when the international network really developed in Europe and very much for the senior Planters at that moment there was really absolutely no policy for contemporary performance in Planters so there was some key overalls but it was more for traditional companies there was no dance funding well there wasn't dance funding but let's say in 1985 98% of the dance budget went to the Royal Ballet and only 2% went to contemporary companies such as Rosas so it's kind of like a paradox because a lot of international renowned artists and Planters developed their work exactly in that period and there was no policy on the local level so when they developed their work it was really for a combination of international networking but also very much connected to the local networking strategies so in that period surface networks in Planters were started up it really tackled all the different elements in the ecosystem as you can see but also research, documentation production, co-production but also presentation so it was really a combination of these local networking strategies with international networking and the idea there is very important because it was really the platform for knowledge exchange how do you set up a festival but also what are the arguments for the creator of the contemporary department so it really meant a lot so it's a great role in the country since then where the cloud really participated I think the position today is different in that sense that today we are reaching the limits of this transnational co-production presentation system a lot of artists and organizations have feeling that they are pushing the boundaries today we are able to be able to be there and they need to look for more and more international co-producers there is a lot of pressure on the budgets so the governments national governments are stepping back increasing the funding more and more organizations want the funding so they are doing what they need and they are really forced to find more and more and more partners in order to be able to sustain the same level of protection there is a lot of dynamic pressure on the system right now which is the drive for international co-operation I think that is a challenge for the networks today also the networks are clearly the drivers of the world and on the pressure on the system we need the transformation of the system and my question would be how in the networks we need the drivers of change in our transformation and it is also the question with which I came here because I see that clearly for this new system of tomorrow what will it be we should not expect it from scratch there are a lot of differences interesting initiatives happening in the fields on a very local level we learned a lot from that there are also people who are working in the direction so I think this is maybe the kind of exchange we need now there is a lot of pressure here there is a lot of pressure in the West the conditions are quite different but you see that artists are really looking for similar strategies so that would be my question also for that from here how can we collaborate in the future in order to facilitate this exchange so it is very interesting to see how you come and push and then you are examining the role and the modalities of the networks but the other interesting thing for me is the definition of networks as drivers as roads and as roads and roads and I think this is the definition that we need in the future and really learn from it is important that the remarkable success is that the more networks that happen in the quality it is an exercise for us that we need modalities and then we have Christina, she is a national resource standard for circus arts, street arts and I coordinate circus for the network the European network for circus arts and street arts and I'm based in Paris so I'm going to just give you a little bit of context I'm going to be short and I'm going to be not more and practical and this is just a story so you take whatever is interesting for you it's a one-in-one for that precise context that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to work in any other country in today's context so we can go back to the 90s for a couple of seconds so it's 1992 and the President is the Minister of Culture is Jacques Long you know him and basically they decide to create the National Theatre Center a year later there is a new Minister of Culture because we like changing them in France and he is Jacques Long we have never heard about it but he is still working in the government there is no one from the French embassy so I can trash France so they decide to create Pauline Mur which doesn't translate it's Pauline Mur and Pauline Mur in 1993 it's the National Resource Center for street arts only a couple of years later the National Resource Center for street arts and circus arts like that now we move to 2016 it's really fast it's June, the point of June and it's the wedding day of the National Theatre Center and Olivier and they become Arcena so that's the national story I can share them over coffee and off camera of course let's go back to the network, so 2003 Olivier creates Chilpe Scala what does it mean if he creates a network it means that there are a bunch of people getting together and saying do you know what's going on there let's ask him did you have this problem how did you solve it why did you do it so basically it's only about information and knowledge and how do you use information and knowledge how do you share it and how do you use it as an advocacy tool it's really that and it starts, let's say 20 people, 10 countries the network grows and we are again in 2016 we are almost 19 members from 27 countries and let's say from the European Union and European and outside the European borders and outside the European Union so we have members from Canada, Australia and members from Egypt also anyway what do we do basically we produce share information and enhance capacity for our members and we use all of these to develop and structure the fields of sectors of service and three parts I'm just going to say one more about the money where do we get the money we get the money from the French Ministry of Culture let's say 40% of our budget and 60% of our budget comes from the European Commission two examples one from the field of street arts and the other from service arts to show you what members can do so we have one activity it's called fresh street basically it's an international stamina happening in the first one in Spain last year and the next one is going to take place in Portugal in May so it's just the second edition and it's an international stamina for all the professionals street arts they get together for three days they talk, they do workshop and actually there's some sort of an impact nationally and at the European level what is happening now in Portugal so there is this event taking place the Ministry of Culture suddenly reacts it's a big European event happening in our country it's why it's happening right now in Portugal and a very concrete and practical thing they are deciding to add a category on the some mentioned schemes for service and street arts because before if you were a service artist or street artists you had to describe your piece you had some public support as a dance or theater or something else in between so now they're going to create a new category it's quite a big deal and they're doing it and they're going to announce it most probably during the second one another example for the circus arts so basically you have England in the early 2000s there are some things going on but not so much and today thanks to the network and thanks to the people because the network is not something per se like here the network is the members you have to work with them and right now the situation of circus arts in England the level is super high it's higher than the artistic quality, the structure the development of circus arts it's very strong and we're trying to do the same thing for Germany because Germany is circus arts it's commercial activity and we're trying to push policy makers to understand that now it's not only commercial activities it's really an artistic practice and we're trying to organize conferences we're trying to get together artists, organizations and policy makers from the federal region as well to understand and actually show them we invite them to show so they realize what's going on what else can I say we always think that networks are great, it's fantastic it's really hard really, don't try and think that it's easy to work with people, it's always hard because you have to find the right decision making process so everybody has a say but at some point their decision has to be taken and you have to also the members need to be engaged in the project so for instance what we do is that the example I gave you for the event in Portugal within the network there is a work group of people working on the contents of what is going on and they're bringing the event together so it's not me sitting on my lap doing everything everything is done in partnership there is a lot of things done I arrived in January 2016 and I thought why don't we do anything with countries like Egypt even on the other side of the region and in June we had a meeting like this one and we invited some people from Egypt and basically we started discussing about first meeting each other discussing being at the same table listening to one another and just try to see what are you doing I'm doing this can we find a connection can we find a way to work together that is useful for you that is useful for me that is useful for the fields as well and as a result of this meeting we're going to have a first we're going to participate in the meeting in March and April about best practices in the region so basically some actors from the region are going to get together and discuss practices and we're going to make a publication and share it that's it thank you interesting presentation I just want to remind at one point because I found it to be stunning that has to do with financing the funds for the network from the Ministry of Culture is from the this is like Christmas for us and I think it's interesting to see when because if you know not all the networks have supported like this yes absolutely it can't come in two but I think it's interesting to see the potential when other countries have secured this funding that could actually allow them to mobilize freely without having to mobilize to get the funding to survive so I think it's really interesting that again it's like Christmas and let you know one thing when we we merged there were two organizations merging one to one and some people on the networks were scared to say what is going to happen to the network and we received a letter from the Ministry of Culture saying you're merging and basically it doesn't change a thing we're going to support you anyway because we believe that you are super important and we're going to keep supporting you as the new organization and we had a letter and we shared it with the members they were relieved and we were relieved so we moved to the network yeah I want something like that so back to the region with Saharaasna, Sahar brings a different experience of networking on a different level that has to do with text so Sahar good morning everyone, Saharaasna I'm an actor director and assistant professor of theater at the American University of Babies so basically I with my collaborator Robert Myers we established at AUB we called it theater initiative because we don't have a theater major on campus and they do make lots of professional work at the university level at the low-income professional level and internationally so we created the theater initiative to basically promote and put theater practice and theory at the center of the intellectual life on campus and I'm also a co-founder of what we call Tahouye Theater Company which is a low-income nation-based theater ensemble so I operate between the two I create work on campus I create work on campus and we take it internationally I honestly know nothing of networking and when they invited me I was like really okay thank you I'm just going to share my experience so what we do I think I can categorize the work we've been doing and there's three so far categories one we work on disseminating texts from English to Arabic to English for example we started by producing the Rituals of Science and Transformation a famous text by the Syrian playwright Adelaou and the idea of the production was basically to support the translation of the claim to English which was the first time to happen that was in 2013 this production called Interest 5 in New York where they actually organized the stage-feeding of the play and were invited to present in our work and then we traveled to Chicago where I directed another stage-feeding of the play and then to Belgium to Thongubis Theater where we also spoke about the news and our work on the news because we went on to produce another play at the American University and then also we did works by Lebanese playwright Inzama Huss in English and Arabic in the same year in New York and English and Lebanese in Arabic but also we do original works the play we did was You Step which is a site-specific prominent performance on our memories of the Lebanese Civil War recently I did a prominent on-campus to honor the genitals at AUD because this year we're celebrating the 150th anniversary of the camp another category would be historical reenactment which is yesterday we had the first performance of this is going to be a series of work we did I directed the reenactment of three historical speeches by women who have been at AUD in the early 20th century so this has been our work also we produced we transferred an American play contemporary work by in Arabic this one the official launching production of that week as a company in Lebanon right now we're actually working on two plays one by The Adventures one by Shakespeare, King Lear and The Dialogue of the Dog to celebrate the 400th anniversary of this playwright um actually what I just want to comment on two things that other people mentioned on this panel I'm just going to end the question to my co-panelists and to you everyone basically what Hassan said about worknet I think this has been my I want to reflect on my experience as a theatre maker they have been my case and they have created these networks for instance I'll just give you an example right now I'm so directing King Lear with a British director Rachel Valentine Smith from the Faction Theatre Company in London who I met in New York at Lincoln Center everything else we've been really focused on the work and the work led to very interesting and productive kind of plans for it it's not the other way around other things that Eman said and I think this is something that really touched me you know about the you know everyone working on their own and I think this is something that really brings me a noise especially in Lebanon and I'm just going to be a little provocative here because this is what the organizers asked us to do it's unfortunate that we work in fix right everyone's doing the work and I personally do an effort to go and see everyone else just because I'm interested in what you see is happening and also because it's such a small tiny country we cannot meet this two sectors from each other and I think what's happening right now is positive with the Matina Theatre Festival that we've heard about it the Matina Theatre celebrating their 20th anniversary and they're bringing 20 local directors to work together and perform you know they're putting on 25 different shows within a matter of 10 days and I think this is fabulous this is what we need the other thing that I wanted to upload was actually it's a question I've been thinking about this idea of not working a lot and as I said when I reflected on my experience it's my work that matters for me you know so I'm still going to ask this question how to maintain our integrity and sincerity while networking I do understand and I support the idea that networking or networks are the great resource for any artist but how do we maintain our sincerity and integrity while networking in our words do we really need networks to advance our arts yes we do need networks to advance our popularity or career but is it a must to advance our arts thank you thank you Sahar Sahar actually took my role in the last bit and opened up discussions so I think it's up to there are 25 minutes which is good if any of the panelists would like to respond or to open up actually would you like to hear from you I mean actually last time we wanted to change the structure but it was too late we wanted you to be more involved in the discussion so that it was too late so it's your point I just wanted to come back to what you just said you literally took the words out of my mouth when you said our network is changing the art world it's changing the network one thing I've already done listening to anyone is have we come to an innovation point I've been a member of ITM for about 30 years but I'm still here and I think because I am still here I've been away and I've come back again it's precisely because it's changed my perspective so maybe we do network to network but I do think it involves perspective and I find that one of the most important things currently then ever I think it's so crucial that we continue to exchange ideas more than just knowledge sharing but to exchange ideas and to really listen to them to be open to how other perspectives influence you and influence your own art and influence your own way your own way of making things so please continue all the different approaches and testimonies that you had about the networks are really interesting and also in addition to what the question that you had asked what I would like to highlight when he said that networks are a drive for change growth and transformation and Stephen said that networks are members and that everything isn't partnerships so in so both these statements are very important and I don't doubt that this is the real nature of networks but I don't know to which extent this is true about international level but in a more general way didn't all the networks where we are working transform into institutions what is different between institutions that create networks and networks I know that theoretically there is a difference but practically that this difference exist the real difference should come from the difference between networking and networks because networking is done by institutions and individuals but networks are in structures and it's not just about the process of networking I would have liked to have someone from ATM and the panel someone from ITM core team unless I understood wrong the objective of this panel please use the microphone yes but the experience of managing the network as a structure because all the panelists are members and networks but we would like to see the management of the network because this is the drive after all if I understood things right so is it an institution made of many members or is the network only the members she facilitated the path for me through her intervention because I always have this question on my mind and if I'm not wrong there is a substantial difference between networking and network if we look at it in our region and in the other regions this is why I think it was necessary to explain how ITM works because I have done research about cultural management and I was responsible for working on networks and it was a help for me because I did a very big research and I presented something that was academically interesting but still afterwards I had a million questions in my head that were not answered so I went there and I saw how they worked in departments, departments that cross work like constellations and I understood many things but it was also necessary to understand things even more and to go beyond that so maybe we need to have discussions about how we take care of arts we need to monitor the successful experiences to classify them and maybe put them in a book not just publish them on the internet even though things change quickly with time so this is what I want to say Stefan only the French ministry of a culture gives you this Christmas or is it also done by other ministries and the EU 60% but 40% by the French ministry on its own and I also have a question to Iman I always call her Ima I don't know why so Iman the network the performing art network also takes care of the Palestinians that are outside but how can you do that it was really very difficult to get you inside the ban on you can't imagine what we had to do so that you were able to come here so how can you do that how can you communicate with the Palestinian community with all the borders with all the walls and Sufian I have a question also for you what you have done is a great achievement what you have done with the Tunisian ministry of education through our experience with the ministry of culture and Tunisia things were really great but when the ministry changed they put like a million obstacles in front of us so how will you be able to do an agreement across all the cliques across all the groups across all the ministries in this very sensitive moment in the Tunisian history so how will you be able to put some security pins how will you be able to do all of this for all the region it's a great job but also I have many questions sorry Hassan but I got here and you had already started and then I think that you want to answer the question before the next question yes I had this question also for you is there a difference between the networks that are born through a decision by governmental institutions like what Stefan explained to us or if I understood well and between the networks that are born because there are many people in one domain or that have one cause and decided that they needed something to bring them all together your question is quite clear not to institutionalize so I can say I think ITM and I hope that members around will agree that it is still trying to be a networking place more than a network as a business institution it's born as a business shown to you it was really a practice that started that healthy urge to do more than just meet during a festival and they wanted to serve the sector to indeed make the independent sector stronger and more informed to help each other it was actually it was the end of the 10 months of about 10 people that thought maybe we can sit together and change our ideas and learn from each other but why not share it and then they started and by that time you had a real division between Western Europe and Eastern Europe and crossing that Iron Wall Iron Curtain a big effort by now I think it's still hard to keep those values that it is about sharing it's about generosity it's about clarity it's about connecting it's never about making your own organization sell their productions it's not about co-production as such it's more about sharing know-how experience and trying to understand what others do too well from that and then there are new connections that end up in the corporations as far as the industry is concerned so it makes your organization stronger completely and it also contributes but it's very much the members that make the talk that we do the factor here is because it's a hard matter and I think it is it's not about that a network is not and that's a big difference in the institution that's why ICF got its first informal European theater meeting and informal was re-chosen to be contrast of an institution but it's not an institution but I think it is it's very different from the start of State of Australia but okay we can meet in the middle and try to do it we have another question from the audience before perhaps we can answer it first and then maybe good morning I have to pick a brand name just to be funny I'm sorry well to be a little bit practical I think that a network is a tool it's not an object it's like culture policies so maybe here as a network we have to have a reflection about how can we work together between our countries I don't like the change but in fact we need we need technical jobs we need administrative jobs we need democracy we need human rights we have in the North what we need we have in the South what you need in the North some contents how to bring audience in the Arabic neighbourhoods for example and so on there are some examples we can be more practical if we work together because network for us is a protection international for us in the South it's also a pressure a political pressure against against or with our governments to have democratic regimes so we agree that we can work together in the some international addiction of human rights we can do something good network is an objective for having money or as a travel agency it's not practical and we see that there are some network based on this in European Union life has to be in network for having funds for example I think the question is for what we are doing it about cultural policy we don't ask ourselves since two days what why we need a cultural policy for democracy for human development for having citizens for social development for having public space which public space and so on we are speaking about how to do a cultural policy we don't ask ourselves the first step why after maybe we can speak about developmental development we are not so clear we say it in English and our countries to work with culture for excellency artistic excellency I think we are understood to use culture for anthropological way to use human rights to be a citizen or to have democracy so maybe, maybe as the meditant we can work between some organization in the north some organization in the south who have the same ideas working on why we are doing it maybe we will have some pressure maybe we will have support and so on thank you there are many questions and we have only 10 more so I need the panelists to respond thank you this is just an example of a non-network that's happening in the UK about 5 years ago a few people got together worrying about the funding for the arts and development very clear it's not a network it's a new one there's a long time one under a long time we meet once a week before an hour at half the state in the morning before we all go on to our work and what I'm impressed about it's what you said we have something from the Royal Opera House and we have a solo before this we have galleries we have theaters we have art halls we are meeting to talk about trying to raise the profile of the arts in Britain not just with the MPs but more importantly with the people who vote for those MPs and the audiences and the teachers normal people actually it's a very generous and sharing it's the first time in all my many years working in the arts I've seen all the art halls I've seen them with each other and all the younger, penniless arts it's actually being supported by the individual institutions and it's who knows where to go and it's very successful at the moment it's absolutely not a network and all it's really been quite an audience is the target there was a question there let's try to make it short because of the time constraints so to make it short the division between networking and networks is really important because their kind of description I said which one I think is very good and where it came from you said is the need to network is what are other people doing I think in Europe that is often the need so I for example we got together a network that was bringing together there was a service garden network and the outdoor network in Scotland so a network of a network within the network and again it was Christmas it was easy to do that funder's life because two simple reasons one, it puts everybody together so they only have to deal with one person or those and two, it's very easy to judge success either people turn up on a part of that network in which case you keep funding it but I think that's driven out of often an inability to network something that I think is very good in my experience in the Middle East people do that much better so there isn't necessarily that need for networking for that and I think it's why Judith Woodson that she talked about is so different, so good for us because if you're not careful that network just creates a load of boxes for people who define themselves by surface art history there's nothing wrong with that but I think here we're talking about networks for advocacy for creating a different infrastructure around us rather than necessarily the desire to come together to understand what each other is doing I think the two need to be a bit separate let's take another question and move back to the panelists the strategy for us to work together to be able to find what we lack if there is a lack in resources for example or in opportunities I have two experiences one with UNESCO and arabesque network I was in the core team a problem about making the members more efficient in the network and they always asked how can we use this network what will this network give us how will it be beneficial they said if there are opportunities then maybe we can be efficient so we need to believe that our presence together will give us more strength will reinforce our work and will make us drive change also when you are working on alliances so that we can have the street theater in Egypt people were really afraid they were saying how will we do this because as you know we have the law against demonstration etc so this way maybe we are giving ourselves to the security but maybe if we are all together then we can change something so we had all these ideas but because they really trusted us therefore this is what made us succeed in the street theater so yes believing that together we are stronger and we can have all the necessary resources and get to change this is maybe the problem in the way networks are defined in the Middle East thank you which is a bit different it means that at some point the director of our meeting is saying we need to get together more formally than just meeting during festivals or during whatever occasion so it's not a decision from the ministry it's a decision from a person then it's true that the person working within an institution supported by the state it's easier to get a funding but it's not top to bottom and the institution we work as an agency but our legal status is not perfect organization so we are part of the civil society as well just to be clear as far as it's a working institution but I coordinate the network I can see the differences and what I can tell you is that we are much more flexible than the institution we are much more horizontal when we have questions meaning that we are thinking right now about what is going to be the future of the network and we basically had the members working on it and one of the members and it was basically two days of these are the topics tell me whether the needs, the challenges make a proposition what do you want to do etc so it's not like this, it's more like this and the risk of institutionalization is present but you can put some mechanism to counteract so it's all about governments so for instance we have a steering committee and the steering committee selected every two years and we tried to have the representation of the countries and I'm just the coordinator so I ask questions they answer me and I can face so that's how you you're safer than an institution that is more like this especially in France and as far as networks and networking is true there is a difference and informal networking is super important but informal networking doesn't just happen you need to build space for it and then you need to construct a moment where you can actually share other things ideas and etc and not in a workshop or in this kind of front of relations but with a grain or something so you can redo that and we can do that I don't see it as a certain opposition so maybe we'll eat its own members and this was a central question for us because we didn't want networks to be stronger than its members we didn't want the network to be strong but the members weak we wanted for the members to be stronger stronger than the network because it's their presence that makes the network strong and the idea was not to have competition for funding and also we didn't want the small institutions that are outside the network whether they're big or small and they are working in the same field so people to compete within the network to get these kinds of funding from these institutions and it was very important also not to have redundancy because we're not an organization, we're not an institution or a network sometimes we have a problem because sometimes the ministry of culture considers itself as an institution so it does activities as if it were a natural institution and not a ministry for policies so we had also these questions and we answered them, we said it was very important to have clarity in this regard as for your question, yes of course it's difficult it's not easy to communicate with Palestinians everywhere but the idea is that at least because we have the vision we need to have unity, political unity and geographical unity against all kinds of divisions so we rely also on the institutions that work in this regard so there are institutions that work for example