 A division of Northern Elders for women shrews as one side okays a secession of Muglows while the others criticize it. As INEC loses over 40 offices to attacks in Arsene, we wonder, what could the cost of the 2023 elections be? This is Post-Politics and I am Mary Annickle. Amidst calls for secession and self-determination, the Northern Elders Forum has come out with a surprising statement. The NEF stated that in other to prevent another civil war in Nigeria, the South East should be allowed to secede from Nigeria if the movement is popular among the people in the region. The forum stated that standing in the way of the agitators will only worsen the insecurity in the country. And then in a turn of events, the Pan-Arawa Social Political Organization under the aegis of Northern Elders Forum called on Igbo leaders to prevail on the members of the Indigenous People of Biafra championing secession to sheave their swords to avoid instigating another civil war in Nigeria. Joining us to discuss this is Moussa Idris, Chairman of the People Alliance Party and Law Method, Director of Public Affairs, Igbo Leadership Foundation. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Thank you. Thank you for hosting us. All right, great. I'm going to start with you, Dr. Mefor, because we all know what's happening in the Southeast with the police stations being targeted, prisoners being released, electoral offices being burned down. It's, you know, a potpourri of issues. But let's go to what Dr. Akim Baba said to the South Eastern leaders. He said that political leaders in the Southeast, I'm cursing him directly, appear to have submitted to violence and terror from IPOP and ESN and that muted voices of millions Igbo's cannot be heard so that Nigerians can understand the degree to which this secession movement is being made. So my question is, have the Igbo leaders been muted or are they not paying attention to what's happening? Have they been speaking on this issue or is it that the Igbo leaders have turned a deaf ear and, you know, blind eyes to what's happening in the Southeast? Do you agree with Dr. Akim Baba and what he said? I don't think Akim Baba understands the situation as it is and as it should be. We have an apexia body in Igbo's social cultural life and that is a Honezen di Igbo worldwide as led by Professor and Ambassador George Obiezo. He has come out repeatedly with a statement that the Igbo's do not support secession but Igbo's at the same time would want to be victims of Nigeria's unity. Let me put what he has said in perspective so we can understand him. He is saying that Igbo won't restructure Nigeria. It's as simple as that and that is where over 80% of the Igbo's stand, including myself, I am a restructuralist. That is where Igbo's stand, restructured Nigeria. But I can also tell you that if Nigeria is not restructured, going forward, we don't see any future for the country. And it will serve everybody's interests that the nation is restructured by restructuring, I mean that Nigeria is restored to the federalism agreed upon with the colonial Britain and Nigeria's the founding fathers. As it is today, we are running a unitary system of government in the place of federalism. The facts are very clear and that is what has led to the problems we have because the regions or the zones as they are presently called, as Typhoon, they are incapable of engaging in any meaningful economic activity. So the user restiveness can only grow because the employment is not being created, the economy is not growing, everybody can see that the economy is actually contracted. So if that is the truth and restructuring can cure it, then why don't we look at restructuring? Then to respond directly to Akindoba, you see, Igbo says that Igbo's can go if they want to go. But there should be a test to be sure that it's a popular demand. I think that is fair enough. If Nigerians want to know how the Igbo is filled today, let me predict what will happen. If you carry out a referendum today, the way Nigeria is, it's not only the Southeast or the Igbo's that want to go. Virtually every part of the country wants to go because the country has configured, it's not working for anybody. So Akindoba, to that extent, is right. But I want to correct one impression for him to say that the voices of the owners of the Igbo is mutated or muffled or stifled. I think it's been economic with the truth. You see, the problem you have with IPOV and others, he has been condemned randomly. And we do not want violence. Igbo's are not violent people. We are not. The Biafra war was imposed upon us. We didn't declare war. The government under Gerard Yacoub. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Dr. Meffo. Let me just quickly come in there. Apologies for speaking over you. But as much as I do want to believe what you're saying that the Igbo's in general do not support the ESN or the IPOV, we are seeing a lot more people welcoming IPOV in the Southeast. It seems that more and more people are in support of them. But you're telling us right here on national TV that Igbo's are not for secession. But this is what the IPOV wants. And we can see more and more people applauding what they're doing. People will have to have sympathy for IPOV as we delay restructuring. The problem is because nothing is working for everybody. And this is not a feeling shared by the Southeast in the moon. The entire southern Nigeria is saying the same thing. Middle-Berth is saying the same thing. A chunk of Cornus is saying the same thing. So it's not an Igbo thing. It's not its thing. That is very wrong. We need to change that impression. And let me put one thing on record. See, we do not want secession. That's the truth. But I can also assure you that Nigeria continuing this way, moving forward, you can be sure that not only the Southeast would want out, Biafra would not only become an Igbo, even if we do do want a Republic to become an Igbo, restore to Nigeria, restore Nigeria to true federalism. Simple. And as regards IPOV, you see, the IPOV, I'm not sure those who really belong there have to up to 1% of the open Igbo. I'm not sure of that. I don't have the figures. But I know that over 90% of the South Easterners are not members of IPOV. They may have sympathy for what they are doing or not how they are doing it. I for one, listen, it's very important. I don't agree with the IPOV method. That's the truth. I don't want it. I don't want violence. And again, pinning the actions or activities of unknown gunmen on IPOV, I will not share it until I see how facts that unknown gunmen is the same thing as IPOV or Easter security network. Until that happens, I will return my neutral position and take IPOV the way I see it as an agitation group that wants out, but I also know that they would stay in Nigeria if the country is restructured. So if I came by bad things, that the Igbo's want to go is not true. But if going is imposed on Igbo's, to be honest with you, we will not regret going. Let me come to you, Mr. Idris. Recently we saw a video where the Onion Sellers Association, you know, spoke to the press. They had said that they do, I'd like to quote them directly, that they want their people safely and securely taken or removed from the South. And of course, they're going to stop supplying onions. And they gave an ultimatum of sorts to the Nigerian state and of course the leaders in the South. Many people had received that news with different kinds of, you know, some people looked at it from a prism of these people are calling for some form of restructuring. But some other people are also saying that these people might be beating the drums of war. Yes, these people have a reason, their reasons, of course, we hear that their trucks have been stopped, the products on the trucks are destroyed, people are killed on their way to the South. But how are we supposed to perceive this move by the people in the North, especially the Onion Sellers who have said that they want their people taken out of safely out of the South? Is this the best way to go about the situation? Should they be targeting the aggressions at the South or should it be at the government? Mr. Idris, can you hear me? Yeah, thank you very much. I have listened to Dr. I want to quickly say that I take exception to what he said regarding our revered and most respected Dr. Hakim Baba Hamat, one of the respected elders, modern elders in the North. I think what he's talking about really close up to what will really make people demand. I don't understand what it was one. It's so preposterous. Sometimes I say it is cacophonic as to understand exactly what are those because if it's true that we all agree, say that the North agree for the structuring. Of course, we have long agreed for the structuring because what remains that? How are you structuring? What are you structuring? What are the modules for the structuring? What are you putting for the structuring? Look at the way the North have been going about it. Is that the way the Hibomah want to go about it? Is that the kind of structuring you want? Is that the kind of agitation structuring you want? Just recently I saw the clip that the leader was actually you know he went zero in terms of why he was saying that yes he believes in the initial but he doesn't want another. I think to the best of my knowledge, most of the very important Hibomah that I know is North, especially in Abuja, who are being very meaningful no end of us, they don't completely want a middle of people in this country. Converting, if you look at all these in the Kalo of these proscribed high power is doing in the East today, giving all kinds of instruction, telling Hibomah exactly what they should do to destabilize Nigeria. You can see what has been going on. They want political... Do you think that Namdi Kanu has the powers to tell Iboz what to do? Because if you ask me, the Iboz are not under Namdi Kanu, they have governors. So I'm trying to understand what you mean by that statement because I'm wondering do the Iboz take orders from a certain Namdi Kanu? You see the Iboz want a rallying figure. They want a rallying figure and they have gotten in the person of Namdi Kanu, which is very important to me. That is why in this statement of Dr. Hakim Hababah, what he was saying is that the entire Iboris, I repeat the entire Iboris claim to support what's currently going on in it. You can look at what is happening now in the East for instance. Apart from the INEC, you know, properties and institutions that are being destroyed. You can see that if it was us that are taking to Hibomah, the onions, cows and all of that, they burn them, burn the people, begin to wonder what do they want and conversely, back in the North here, we live peacefully. We are people. So this is embarrassing. If we begin to take reactive actions now, then you said it's not happening. That is why our leaders have called us to keep on being peaceful. Alhamdulillah, we are still very much people. We respect our elders. They are quite resilient and expect the next action. That is why when the president responded to the tweet that Jack made from Twitter, you can see the viewer reaction. Meanwhile, Snow has been very quiet. The president has been very quiet as to the kind of response to go to the president Abonan. The way Ammana, the South East, is responsible of this. How the governor has been quiet. Nobody is taking any passive action as to, for us, perhaps misuse in the South East. Nobody, none of them. How is any important leader? Call, name them, nobody. Can I ask another question before I let Dr. Meffo respond to you because you spoke directly to him. Again, when you opened your statement- No, no, you know, you know, Dr. Meffo was saying that he doesn't believe in violence. Sorry briefly. Sorry, please. Dr. Meffo is saying that he does not believe in violence. If I understand what violence is, what is South East have done recently in that couple of months, how do you describe what they have been doing? Is that non-violent? I'm sure he's going to respond to that. But I want to ask a question because I've heard you say it again and again, the ebos, and you keep referring to the ebos as the ones who, it seems more like they're the ones fueling Namdi Kanu and you're saying they're looking for a rallying point, a leader. When they have their, they have their leaders, they have governors, they have their, you know, just as you have spoken about Dr. Akim Baba, they do have people they look up to. But then, of course, Dr. Meffo is going to respond to that. But my question is, when you say that in the, where the ebos are around you, they live in peace, can you say that every ebos person is responsible for what's happening in the Southeast, or for the burning, or random burnings of trucks and trailers that are coming from the North? Because when people in the Southwest, in the Southeast, and the South-South make reference to herdsmen as fuller Anis, the Northerners say that we should take that out because it's not, those people don't represent every fuller Ani. So you're saying that these people who are carrying out these violence and the fairest activities are ebos. Is it fair to make that statement and lump all the ebos under these group of, you know, people who have taken it upon themselves to carry out these, the fairest activities? Is it fair? Yeah, I think this is a good one. You see, you see, it's because that they defy actually. You can see what has been happening recently. That is why there's a general consensus as to, they are the ones that are causing all of, that is the problem. And then, if we have, if we have reacted, when I say we now, I'm talking of the North, we have reacted to what has been happening for our old people now, the Northerners that are living there. Their properties, their business, have been verously attacked. They've been killed, they've been maimed, they've been rejected. I'm not talking of the Spanish, not for instance, I'm talking of the courthouse family that are there, that are living peacefully there. You can see what has been happening. That is why I say we will not take loss into our hands. Our leaders have taught us how to behave. That is why the outbreak Igbo Martin in the North is living peacefully. On him that does his business, he has no problem. You still haven't answered my question. That's the neediest. That's what we're saying. That's why we, we've come here, have been violent. Okay, I'm going to let Dr. Meffo respond to the questions that you asked earlier, but you still haven't answered my question. I'll bring it back again in the conversation. Dr. Meffo, are the Igbo's violent people? Are the Igbo's beating the drums for war? Are they fanning the embers of war? Are they in total support of what the pockets or the pockets of violence that have been happening, especially in Igmo State? Is this what the Igbo people stand for? Because he's made an allegation that I'm hoping that you'd be able to clear. Hey, my friend raised so many posers, many of them surprising. He said he took exception for what I said concerning the statement of Akin Baba. He's a respected elder statesman, and what I've done is to put his statement in perspective and to say that what should be done, even he really wants to resolve the problem moving forward. And he also said and I repeat that if Igbo's are pushed out of Nigeria, we will have no choice other than going. And I assure us that indeed we will make a niche in the decade or two. That's the truth. We are no violent people. Even the Biafra war, like I said, it was the federal government that fired the first shot. The war was fought in Igbo land, not in any other place. It wasn't fought in the north. It wasn't fought in the west. It was fought in the old Eastern region. And why was this so? Because the General Yakubo Gowan declared what he called police action. And the first shot was fired at the Soka. That was where Uzobu was killed. That was where Tom Digger, the half brother of Emigo Jubu was killed. So the war was brought to Igbo. So even if you use the Biafra war to measure it, it's a clear evidence that we're not violent people. And we submitted ourselves to all the peace processes, including the one broke out by General Lankra, the then head of state of Ghana, that yielded what is now popularly referred to as the Apuriakot, which Igbo-1 administration refused to implement, which led to the declaration of the Afra and the declaration of war by General Yakubo Gowan. Let's not call, complicate this, but it's as simple as that. Now, coming to what is going on in the south is unknown gunmen. Until they prove who the unknown gunmen are, I wouldn't want to believe that the unknown gunmen is a certain assistant security network. When the security network was formed, I was made to understand and I still want to believe that the real reason it was formed is to help in maintaining security in Igbo land. I think it's noble enough, but if it is meant for armed struggle, if it is meant for attacking government and government institutions and agencies, Igbo's will not be party to it. Not only me, mainstream Igbo's will not be party to it. And the leader and the spokesman of the Igbo nation, Professor Ambassador George Obionzo, has already issued several statements to this effect saying that we don't want violence. We do not support any violent action. But Mr. Idris has alleged that no strong person in the east, in the southeast, has been able to speak against his vehemently insisted that nobody in the southeast has pushed back on the kind of insecurity that's coming from the southeast. I need to make this point. I just told you that the spokesman of the Igbo nation, the president general of Ojanese, has spoken repeatedly against the violence in the southeast, against the actions of the unknown gunmen. What about the governors? What actions have been taken? We heard about the Igbo Boagu and we heard about the inauguration. But right after that, it seemed like it was dead on arrival. Because more and more things seem to be happening. What are the voices of the government? Where is the action? Where is the power that is supposed to come after these statements that the governments keep issuing? Dr. Merfo, can you hear me? Everybody will go out anytime. Now, let me also say that it is not easy for us to come out and speak against unknown gunmen where we don't know who they are. But by the way, let me even ask, whose responsibility is it to track down and tell us who the unknown gunmen are? It's the job of the police, the ensigns, civil defense, and all the security arms, all their departments in the southeast. Do you know that you can't hold any Igbo man responsible for not unraveling that? Because of all the over one dozen security departments in the southeast, none of them is headed by an Igbo man. So why are you blaming the Igbo's for it? Let them do their work. When we know who they are, they will approach and blame and take necessary steps. Let me also thank you. That is one more statement. Look, when a Boko Haram started in the north, I am aware of one or two perhaps three governors that took newspaper pages to recount their condemnation against Boko Haram. Did they not say much about them then, even now? So you see, it's not a matter of the start is not speaking out or speaking up. We are speaking as much as we should. I am speaking. Our leaders are speaking. And we just can't speak without facts. If what the expectors to do is to blame unknown gunmen on IPOB or ISA security network, I am sorry. We can't do that without facts. Back to you, Mr. Idris. I want to make reference to something that Bishop Kuka had said some time ago. He said something like, we live in a country where you embrace terrorists and give them amnesty while you terrorize agitators. Of course, we know what he meant by that. But let's look at Mr. President's reaction towards what's happened in the south east and the shoot on sight order that he gave. A lot of people also, again, had all kinds of reactions that the president was coming down very hard on the south east. But then when it came to the bandage, we didn't see that same kind of action. People even called the president genocidal. Again, remember the most recent is the president's tweet on the day where the ebos were celebrating or remembering the civil war that happened in 1967 to 1970. So again, let's look at this situation. It's a very sensitive one. But how do you think Mr. President has handled generally insecurity across the regions of the country? And should people in these different regions have some form of apprehension to Mr. President's attitude towards handling the situation? I think these are all reactions. I think the president is regarding the tweet. It's a result of all the things, you know, issues. You can generalize anyway. Go ahead. Go ahead. Quickly. We're almost out of time. No, what I'm saying is that what I'm saying is like, like, you know, I think there are end-top issues that make the president respond the way he is. We all know that the president is very calculating and not abiding. We all know that. That is why we see the president's time because he responds to issues like one we just had in this angle of that. But you see, my position is that what the doctors say is my imagination that there are no violence in all of us. You see, if we look at that, we're able to address the evil, no violence in no state of. It will enable us to address all of this issue. For instance, look at the clean of Gula, for instance. There is no man that will come from the Gula following the way. For us to say this is not possible. Of course, like he said, the police are doing their work, but this unknown government, I don't know what you mean by unknown government. When we talk about the people, you know, people coming from all over the place, going naked on the streets of Gula. Mr. Idris, we need to go unfortunately. I'm so sorry, we need to wrap up this conversation. Unfortunately, we have to go, but I thank you. I was hoping that we could conclude on this conversation and ask what the way forward is. But I want to thank you, Dr. Idris, Mr. Idris, Mr. Idris, and of course, Mehfal Law for being part of this conversation. Time is not on our side. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for hosting me. Okay, well, we'll take a short break and when we return, we will discuss the cost of the 2023 election and the upcoming state elections. We'll be right back. Stay with us.