 Right. Like when you're, you're fit and healthy, you just think more clearly. You're not convoluted with a lot of other self-doubt and, and, and talk in a negative direction. Like you feel like you can overcome because you're constantly presenting yourself with obstacles in it and overcoming them. Yeah. Do you think we'll ever move away from selling fitness, like the, the look and, you know, how sexy the, like the sex appeal of getting in shape and move to selling fitness like this, like the, all the other thing aspects. So much harder. It is, but it's the, it wants the truth. More philosophical. Well, yeah, it's the truth and it's the most impactful. It's the thing that keeps people the longest. Like it's the answer. It really is. And, and, and as a byproduct, you actually will, like you always say, we'll get that, right? If so, you focus on health, aesthetics follow, right? So do you think that we will, as a consumer, wise up in the future of how you sell fitness, we will move away from the look at where this person is, look at their body now, and it'll be more, all these ideas that we're talking about. I hope so. Make no mistake, a fit, healthy version of you is far more resilient and can handle more challenges than an unfit, unhealthy version of you. Here's the good news. There's a lot of things you can do that are under your control that can improve your fitness and health. So focus on those things. In other words, you're a better person if you're fit. You're just more resilient. You know, like think about like, like what right now, for example, we're looking at the market, it's tumbling and inflation is up. Some people are struggling, challenge. And a lot of you can't control, right? A lot of it, you can't control monetary policy. You can't necessarily control inflation and supply chain issues and that and stuff like that. But a fit, healthy version of yourself is better equipped to handle any challenge just because you're, you're more resilient. You're, you have more energy. You're more positive. You can work harder. Muscle is built to resist forces and obstacles in your way. I mean, that's the whole function of the muscle is to really be able to have that kind of strength and protective quality to it. Yeah, absolutely. And again, I get, you know, I must have had, I don't know, 80% of my clients tell me stuff like this where they, their normal stresses in their lives just didn't seem as challenging or stressful when they're, they're fitness improved or when they're health improved. And then there's another factor here, which is when you focus on these controllable factors, like, okay, the food I put at my mouth and how active I am. And you start to feel better from it. You start to develop a sense of empowerment, right? Versus feeling powerless. Yeah, I think that that's the mindset of it, right? Like when you're, you're fit and healthy, you just think more clearly, you're not convoluted with a lot of other self-doubt and, and, and talk in a negative direction. Like you feel like you can overcome because you're constantly presenting yourself with obstacles and overcoming them. Yeah. Do you think we'll ever move away from selling fitness, like the, the look and, you know, how sexy the, like the sex appeal of getting in shape and move to selling fitness like this, like the, all the other thing aspects so much harder. It is, but it's the one. It's the true philosophical. Well, yeah, it's the truth and it's the most impactful. It's the thing that keeps people the longest. Like it's the answer. It really is. And, and, and as a byproduct, you actually will, like you always say, we'll get that, right? If you'll focus on health, aesthetics follow, right? So do you think that we will as a consumer, wise up in the future of how you sell fitness, we will move away from the look at where this person is, look at their body now, and it'll be more all these ideas that we're talking about. I hope so, because what we're doing is we're looking at the side effect and we're attributing the side effect to the, all the positives. Like, for example, okay, if you look at studies of people who exercise and eat right, you'll notice that they're happier, they're happier overall. Now someone may look at that and say, oh, they're happier because they look better, right? They're happier because they're sexier. Now they have great studies on that where they actually study appearance and beauty and its impact on happiness and it's actually a very small, very small impact. In fact, you could take someone who's a five on a scale of one to 10 and spend tons of time and energy on making that person an eight or a nine and there's barely a, barely a bump in their happiness. So what is it that makes people who quote unquote look better, happier? It's all the habits that tend to lead to looking better. And remember appearance, what we consider looking good really is evolutionarily speaking, showing us that that person's healthier. So, you know, a muscular, strong body, less body fat, healthy teeth, skin, what that's telling us, the signal that that's telling us is this person's healthier and those are the outward visual, easy to judge, you know, historically speaking, revolutionary speaking, easy to judge signs that that person has better health. But we confuse the two, you know, there was another study that showed that, you know, the more money you make, the happier you get. But that, again, flies in the face of really well-made studies that show like people who win the lottery within a few years are right back down to baseline in terms of where they were before in terms of happiness. There's other studies that show that once you meet, you know, once you pass the threshold of like needs, like you have a home, you're not stressed out about bills, you have food, you can cover your basic needs, that more money doesn't really make you that much happier. And the more you make, there's actually a kind of diminishing returns. So then why is it that there's one study that shows that the more money you make, the happier you get? Well, typically it goes up, but it's incremental, right? So it's like the jump from poverty to, let's say, you know, middle class is like 75 improvement in overall happiness in your life. And then it goes like from 75 up, if I remember, recall reading this correctly, it's like 1%, 2%. It's like a very small percentage of overall happiness. Yeah, but what they did with this other study is they said, oh, look, people who make more money are happier and they didn't really control for a lot of different factors. And the truth is, and especially in free societies, the habits and behaviors that lead to success are the exact same habits and behaviors that lead to happiness. So learning, being growth-minded, being consistent, you know, a finding a sense of purpose, that kind of stuff, right, overcoming challenges, which also lead to success are also the things that lead to happiness. And so we confuse the two when we look at these types of things. And the truth is just life is going to be hard. You're going to run into challenges, whether you're, I don't care how your life looks, whether you have a lot of money, a little bit of money, whatever, but if you're fit, if you're fitter and healthier, you're just you're better equipped. Yeah, well, speaking to like, you know, what you can control, I mean, that's that's one of those, that's one of those factors where you're going to start eliminating a lot of fear and anxiety just by realizing that I can control what's in front of me. And if I just focus on that, everything else starts to kind of just, you know, take care of itself in a sense. And I think that, you know, maybe we won't be able to market fitness this way, like, for a long time. But I think that this whole mental crisis that we're facing right now and and fear and anxiety just riddled with everybody, if we can kind of start bringing it back to just those controllable items, like my specific health, I can, I can go outside. I can start, you know, walking. I can just make those small steps towards a healthier fit body. That's something that I can control, which then will directly affect the way that I start thinking about things. So what do you guys think is going to happen in the next six to 12 months? I mean, we just came out of like the whole COVID thing, right? And we saw like the rise of like drinking and drugs and suicides. And we saw obesity have one of the biggest spikes we ever seen. Bro, did you see what did you see what they just showed that there's a 300% increase in children and adolescents with speech issues and motor, motor function issues? Millions. Rise. Wow. Yeah. So and they directly connected it to the lockdowns. So kids not being around to the kids masks and then masks, lots of speech issues. And by the way, that's those are too easy to measure things. I think there's a lot of emotional issues that are more complicated that a result of us, you know, taking our kids and keeping them away from the kids and then, you know, having them like a three year old wear a mask or four year old wear a mask, which obviously very ineffective from a virus standpoint, kids, I can't even keep socks on my kid, but a lot of damage. So I asked that because, you know, OK, we all know what that what that's been like for the last couple of years going through that. And then although the the covid scare and stuff is starting to go away, it feels like we're moving away from that the pandemic. We are now getting ready to go into what it looks like to be like a financial crisis and a recession. Arguably, we are in one already. And so we know that that's going to be the next six to twelve months minimum is probably going to be maybe longer is going to be really, really rough. So if we just came out of some of those and we know what that tends to do to people, like what do you predict is going to happen in the next six to twelve months? I think you're going to see people turn like predictably turn to habits that tend to be distracting and numbing. So what you tend to see historically is like more smoking, more junk food, alcohol consumption, you know, those types of behaviors. Really, you know, people taking care of themselves really is the is the key is to say to themselves that they're worth taking care of. And that's what makes people feel empowered. But unfortunately, what happens and I empathize, I've been in very tough situations and I've done this myself. When you're in a tough situation, sometimes all you can think about is like escaping. You know what I mean? Like I'm just going to, you know, drink this beer or smoke this joint or, you know, eat this donut because I just for five minutes don't want to just feel different, you know, and that's what I'm afraid of. That's I mean, that's a really, really tough thing to go through. It reminds me when I when I had tore my Achilles and at the same time or right before that, I first came off testosterone, which was a really tough thing for me to go through. That's one hormonally, one of the hardest things that I had ever experienced as far as being on that much synthetic testosterone from competing and then basically, I didn't cut cold turkey, but I came I weaned off pretty quick and then came off and that feeling afterwards months for your body to come back. Yeah, yeah, no, it was a really, really rough time for myself. And then I remember going like, OK, just just I had a negative attitude, right? I had real negative attitudes closest thing to probably depression that I had probably felt. And I remember trying to think myself like, OK, how do I get myself out of this? Right? And I'm in it. I can't control some of these things that I'm definitely in for sure. How do I? How do I get out of this? And I remember reaching to like thinking about the things in my life as even as a kid all the way to that point that gave me joy. I remember thinking that it was basketball, right? Like, I just love. I love to watch basketball. I love to play basketball. And then I remember I like started picking up basketball and then I tear my fucking Achilles, you know, and it just like ripped my heart out because I was like, Jesus, what can I do? And then I went back to like reading and listening to music, which I love. I love listening to music. Can I? But I think that's kind of the the secret sauce in moments like this when we have an uncontrollable environment. Like you said earlier, there's a lot of things that are going to be happening in the economy that a lot of people aren't going to be able to control and do anything about. So grabbing on to those things that you can control and kind of one, I think it's important to find those things that give you joy that you can control that you can do that maybe doesn't cost a lot of money doesn't listen to music doesn't cost you a ton of money going out and picking a basketball and shooting it at a court like there's a so find those things that give you joy kind of and focusing your mind there and then growth somehow, whether that be reading and growing and learning or bettering your health and fitness like exercise and restricting like, I think that's going to be very crucial for people in the next six to 12 months to find those things and attach themselves to those things and focus on those. You know, it's interesting too about this is that because what we're we're going to deal with is this economic challenge, right? Improving your health and fitness is very inexpensive often times saves you money. So even if you go to a gym so and it's an extra expense but many gyms cost less than what people pay for streaming services. So like I know like Planet Fitness can be as little as $9 a month to go to a gym like that. You don't need a gym though. You could literally work out without any equipment at all at home or resistance bands. And we have programs designed around stuff like that. So there's no expense there. And then there's the food argument. People like, oh, my God, eating healthy is expensive. It's not. It's actually cheaper. Expend like healthy restaurants are more expensive and healthy food stores like whole foods are more expensive. But the reality is if you want to save money and I know this because I've worked with a lot of college guys trying to bulk up and they're eating four thousand calories a day and whatever. And they actually spend very little on food because they buy things like rice in bulk, ground beef in bulk, chicken thighs in bulk, frozen vegetables in bulk, very inexpensive. When you portion it out, even for people eating four thousand calories a day, the meals are very inexpensive and they last a long time like a bag of rice you could put in the pantry. It doesn't go bad for a long time. Frozen ground beef that you get in bulk, you know, you could carve out a piece of it to frost it and the rest of it stays in there for a long time. Same thing with chicken thighs and tuna fish and milk is inexpensive. Eggs can be very inexpensive. So it's actually a really easy way to help you feel better and feel more empowered. And it's also, again, something you have direct influence over because you have almost no power over these grand global things. What kind of power do you have? I think one of the problem with the internet and with social media it's like we take on all the world's problems in our everyday experience. And, you know, growing up, thankfully, we didn't really have a lot of that where every single day I'm looking at my phone and I'm learning which somewhat is good that you're aware, right? Of like other issues going on globally, but it's being able to now try and set up boundaries in terms of like what you actually consume and take in. That's going to be the key because if you can block some of that out and start going back to like, okay, what's in front of me? What can I do that's in my local community? What can I do within my work environment, within my family environment? That's going to move the needle the most. If everybody did that, a lot of these global issues would then start to be impacted. I want to go back to your calorie point because I think it's misunderstood a lot because there's truth in what you said but there's people that are going and they have to be shaking their head going, it's not true like because saturated fat is really cheap and good protein sources are expensive. You can go and you could get your whole family full off of a McDonald's 99 cent menu for relatively cheap but what you're paying for is like super high process saturated fat and then you're comparing it to going and buying like a whole chicken from whole foods or something like that. So it's not, it doesn't look cheaper but for what your body needs from a macro nutrient perspective and micro nutrient perspective and dense macro foods that are. I still argue it's still cheaper. Look, I tell you what, my family, poor immigrants, never ate out. They didn't go to 99 cents meals at McDonald's. They didn't go to Burger King, they didn't go to Taco Bell because it was more expensive than my mom buying pasta in bulk, rice in bulk, meat or ground beef or chicken or turkey or tuna fish, cans of tuna fish are cheap, eggs in bulk and frozen vegetables. Do the math, look at a whole bag of broccoli, a whole bag of rice and ground beef is on sale all the time. You can find huge things at ground beef or chicken thighs or whatever and then do the math per serving. It's less. The difference is it's more convenient to go to these other places. It's more convenient to go buy yourself a pizza and yes they have made it. You don't have to do it, we're cooking it. Yes and yes they have made it cheap. It's definitely cheaper to go to McDonald's than it is to go to the healthy restaurant. That's for sure. Yeah, they're comparing it from a calorie perspective too. You don't understand that. Okay, tuna fish and rice from a calorie perspective is not gonna compare to three cheeseburgers for 99 cents at McDonald's. That whole bag of rice cooked in chicken breast is not gonna be the same amount of calories. So that's where it gets misunderstood. You're talking about like a good meal, like a good healthy meal is cheaper but that good healthy meal only comes out to 350, 400 calories and you're comparing it to a meal that's 900 something calories that's relatively same in price. Well, we can do the math. How many calories are in a cheeseburger? Get three of them for $3. And let's look and see what we could do with a bag of rice, one serving cooked off that and one can of tuna fish. I've done it before. That's where it's the quality of calories and what you're getting, you know? You're not getting as much, what you're saying and I agree with you, you're getting more for that rice and chicken because you're getting more, you're getting more. More nutrients. Yeah, more nutrients. It's more nutrient dense for the price but they're looking at just feeding my mouth right now and the total amount of calories that's just. I think it's the only thing they're thinking that. I think half the time they're just thinking fast and easy. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's gonna like fill them up. That you feel full. That too. Because I've had, look, I've had clients that college students in particular where that's what they did. They would get the bargain meals at Taco Bell and McDonald's and they save money by buying food and bulk. Actually, we would do the math and they would keep a ledger. Like dude, I saved, I spent $15 less this month and I got more protein. And they probably lost weight because from a calorie perspective it was probably a little less calories too. So that's, I mean, that's the positive side of it but I just think that that's where this, that gets misunderstood is people are comparing it from what you get for calorie-wise which you can get a lot, you can get a decent amount of calories for relatively cheap through fast food because most of it's trash, most of it's saturated fat. So that's why. Yeah. I don't know. Like I said, it's, and if you count all the other stuff that is included like the reduced cost of healthcare, increased productivity, better attitude, which tends to make you more innovative and more productive. And I mean, being healthy saves money, bottom line. And the pursuit of health doesn't have to look like organic non-GMO beans from the Himalayan mountains that are rare. And I know that the health space does that and we promote like super rare, like our bone broth is made from yak bones from special, whatever. So that's why it's $50 of servings. Like, okay, like, is that gonna really make that big of a difference versus, you know, there's a list of priorities. There's a hierarchy when it comes to food. Total, 100%. And a lot of people don't realize this, but if your calories are good, a lot of the health effects and negative health effects that come from food are already taken care of. Then the next one is your macros. And then you've probably handled like 90-something percent of all the potential health stuff that can come from food. So long as you're not eating plastic or anything like that, you're pretty much taken care of, you know? And so I think what we've done, part of the problem is the health space has prioritized these little things. Like, well, our, you know, whey protein is from, you know, cows that, you know, are raised in open fields. Those are marketing talking points for the most part. You know, and it's not moving the needle the most, but I mean, for somebody who has already been in that space of just like, they've had their macronutrients accounted for their calories and all that. And they want to go kind of next level. Now we're looking at like quality of sourcing and all that kind of stuff. But your average person, if they just cover those two main things that like get 90% of what you're going for in terms of getting to your goal, like that's what we need to focus on. Absolutely. And speaking of which, you know, I was talking to some of our people at the CGM company, the Continual Glucose Monitoring Company, Nutrisense, and you know how they talk about like one of the most effective things you could do to prevent this, the wild swings and blood sugar, is to eat protein first. And the reason why you want to avoid that is the ups and downs that will make you feel like crap and then give you cravings. So if you can- You know what's funny? Like there was a lot of people that were like, is this real? Is that true? Yeah. Yeah, a lot of people didn't believe it. Oh no, it's a big deal. So Jessica's wearing one right now and it's clear. If she eats protein and then waits five to 10 minutes, the difference is dramatic. In the ups and downs. Well remember, I think that has a lot to do. Remember what I told you guys what happened to me with the tacos? Yeah. I thought it was so fascinating. I was like, I crushed like 10 tacos. But I mean, I'm getting, not only am I getting all the corn tortilla chips in there or the taco shell or what like that, I'm also getting a ton of meat inside those tacos. And so my spike for that many tacos was not that bad. I had like a quarter of like a cinnamon roll, like one of those like Cinnabun ones, but from Costco. And it went twice as high dude. It was crazy. So I think if you like, if you have your meal and you're trying to cut, eat the protein first. That's why that's such a surprise. And then wait five minutes. That's it. Just set a timer for five minutes and that'll be enough time to blunt that response and for some of the signals to get to your brain that says that you're satisfied and you're less likely to overeat. So literally just when you have your plate, eat the protein and then set your timer five minutes and then eat like normal. You don't have to like seriously think about like reducing your food intake, but it'll probably result in eating less calories, which is kind of cool. Speaking of which, I am speculating that a protein shake with a little bit of fat may actually be a good idea. It's like a 10 to 15 gram protein shake with maybe a couple of nuts or something like that for fat. Have that 15 minutes before your meal. I bet that would make people want to eat less as a result. So have the, you're saying have a whole protein shake. Small one, like 10, 15 grams, right? So take 10, 15 grams off your meal. Have 10, 15 grams with a little bit of fat. If this is a challenge for you, if somebody's really challenged by overeating, do that, wait 10, 15 minutes, then go and eat your meal. I bet you you would see that you would feel more satiated faster and eat a little bit less. Oh, so like you're saying, okay, I'm getting ready to eat dinner and I'm afraid I'm going to over consume. This is like a thing for you, yeah. So Katrina's cooking, right? So then I would have like 10 almonds before. 10 almonds and like a legion way shake. So you're with the shake. Yeah, so you're like 10 grams of protein, legion way protein, right? Boom, so it's a small serving. Some almonds, 15 minutes before eating. And then I bet you that would make a difference in terms of, and then if you eat the protein first on top of that, I bet that would have a huge impact. Well, then you could add have a glass of water first too before you drink some water too. They show that just having a glass of water before you eat your meal. So I had somebody DM me that. That's how they were using, so I, somebody DM me, I've never used a protein shake before. What should I get? I said, can you have dairy? So of course I recommended a legion. And so they got the whey protein. And then they messaged me back and said, hey, how do you think about this strategy? I've been doing it. And I thought they were taking a full serving of protein. So I'm like, wait, you're taking 40 grams and then eating your meal. That might not be a good strategy. They're like, no, no, like 10 grams. And I count for it in my meal. So it's just a small amount. So half a scoop basically. Half a scoop. Plus I had some nuts. And then at 10, 15 minutes later I eat. And she's like, I eat way less from doing that. I'm like, huh, based on the CGM stuff, I bet you. Based on that strategy, then I would do like a half scoop of legion with like a tablespoon of peanut butter. That's what I said. I do don't even throw it in there. Yeah, make it even easier. Yeah, I saw your shake, dude. I saw your shake. That ain't the same. That's good, though. It's 600 calorie peanut butter shake. That's my go-to. So I actually haven't. You do the chocolate. I like vanilla with peanut butter, but you do the chocolate with the peanut butter. Is that all you do? Or do you throw milk in there, too? No, I throw milk in there, too. Of course you do. That's gotta be good, dude. It's delicious. Yeah, no, I actually just started the summer workouts and had to have this entire conversation all over again. And thankfully we had that, you know, on top of mine for me with protein and then kind of went through that whole thing about eating protein and seeking that as much as possible in the very beginning and basing every single meal off of that, you know, as the beginning. And so because we had the eighth graders now coming up and so they're going to be freshmen and so they're trying to kind of work in and it's like I'm completely starting over with them. So I had to address the team nutritionally, you know, and then kind of break down some of the workouts and whatnot, but I had a couple of guys like it's really hard for me to let me coach and blah, blah, blah. And so I'm bringing them some weight protein from Legion. I'm bringing that in tomorrow for them to drop it off. So I thought you I thought you were on the fence if you were going to run this back. Well, I started it. So I'm delegating. So I got coaches helping me this time because I did the majority, I did the majority of the offseason training and since January to now. And then like they want to keep it going all through the summer. And I was like, I remember when I when we were in the program, it was like up to you, like what you did over the summer. It wasn't like managed like this. Yeah, I guess I was just assuming it was like, OK, here's the plan and then hopefully if you have access to a gym, here you go. But they want you to meet and yeah, they want me like run the whole thing. And I'm like, dude, they're pulling out your heart, dude. You're lying. You love these kids. You talk about them all the time. I can't help. Yeah, it's in plus two, like you see some of these new kids coming in that are just fresh and asking you so many questions and it brings you right back. You're like, I want to help this kid because, man, his form is atrocious. You know, I can't have this. You know, they think when you look at how much they eat these kids, people think, oh, teenage boys eat a lot. No, they don't. They eat very infrequently. And then they eat a big ass meal. Yeah. When you actually watch them eat, they don't eat that much. That was my intention all about it. I used to think that I ate a lot as a kid. You would eat like one big massive meal, but then I would go hours and not eat. Yeah, that was super enlightening when I started tracking. Yeah, totally. Right. I know it's funny. So when we were up in Tahoe with the guys and you played the trailer from the a lot of people know this, our current audience, just we talked about this a long time ago. Justin, can you mind if I tell the story? Yeah, go for it. OK, so Justin's high school football team made it to the finals. And I guess the regulations or the rules are in high school that if it makes it to the end of the game, even if it's tied, that's the game. You have now you have to for league. It was for league championship game. And so they they cut out the opportunity to do like overtime. Yeah, so it was it was co champions, right? And now Justin's team, aggressive and competitive as they are, offered the other team. Let's play just for bragging rights. Let's play another another quarter. And let's just see who wins the true champion and the other team denied and said the quarterback in particular said no. So there was this bad blood. This is real. OK, there was this was there was bad blood between the two high school teams forever, especially on the against this quarterback who said no, turned down the extra quarter or whatever 20 years later. So these are all grown men now. So you're looking at a bunch of here's where the Uncle Rico kind of is back. But the late guys in their late 30s, right? They put together a rematch. OK, and there's a long story behind this because they filmed the whole thing. They do a rematch and all the original players show up to play full like full time regulation, full pads. We're going to play real football. So you've got a bunch of dudes, white hair, wasn't any cake. Yeah, they showed up and played and it was filmed. And I mean, it was a tight game, wasn't it? It got tight again. Yeah, we were tied. And then we ended up winning, you know, in overtime. So we actually did have to play. No, there's no way he's getting out of overtime. First of all, I do want to say 20 years. Well, there's no way you're walking away from this, buddy. Can't walk away. Yeah. Now, I do want to say this, first of all, I feel bad for high school kids going up against Justin in high school. I feel really bad of grown man going against Justin 20 years later because he's been working out. He's probably stronger and bigger than he was in high school. And you know, a lot of these dudes ain't doing shit. Yeah, that must have been very jarring for these guys to get hit. But it's so funny to see people. Yeah, I watch that trailer and kind of because I mean, obviously I live through all that and stuff and it was like really kind of a funny experience that like turned into this really like. Um, man, it was a crazy wild, like almost an emotional ride, you know, like getting back on the field and then having all those feelings kind of resurface and like you're getting intense, but you're realizing that I mean, we didn't even have the conditioning going into it. Like I was I had the flu going the week before we had two weeks to practice to kind of catch up and like create some kind of offense and defense and like, you know, a lot of the guys hadn't even played or touched, you know, the football and I don't know, well over a decade. For sure. At least I played a bit of college football, but all the guys, like, you know, we're just just right off the couch and coming in and trying to help out. So but we had we had the best showing like our team like came through like all the guys from all around the country came back and made it happen. And I think I think Wally was really just surprised at, you know, what we were able to put together. And I mean, and to be fair, like they they had a lot of time to practice. They they they were very calculated. They thought for sure they're going to take it from us. And it was it's just one of those things that like you just kind of dig deep. And you're just you just know that based off of everybody else around you, you're like, no, well, my son was tripping. He's like, wait a minute. He goes, they played like real football 20 years later again. I said, yeah, dude, it was like real deal. Now people, some people got injured. Someone broke their femur. Yeah, pretty nasty. Some people got injured. I mean, it's kind of one of those things where being an outsider and a family member and like everybody and their mother was like, you guys are stupid. What are you doing? This is ridiculous. Like you're way too awful. You just have to work, you know, it's like what you have children. What do you do? It was borderline a little stupid. And it was like, I mean, the whole thing. It's like it's kind of it's interesting to me because we lose that. We lose that as we grow up and we get in our jobs and we create our families and we just like try to be safe as possible, safe, safe, safe. And I've just, I don't know, for me personally, I was tired of being safe. And I was just tired of like just kind of going through the motions. And like I struggled with it because I did have a lot of my family and close family were just like, you're not doing this. You're not going to do this. And I'm like, OK, if enough people tell me I can't do it, I'm going to do it. Yeah. And then I did it and I don't regret a second of it. So I imagine for you, there has to be like, so. OK, for me, like I'd be scared to play like a basketball, like a basketball game that I played in high school or some of that go like another recreate that like the same concept, because for sure every bit of my body is at a disadvantage to playing that game where you I would think that you're actually probably stronger today than you probably were as a high school kid. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely for sure you are. Yeah, definitely stronger. You're probably I was one eighty five in high school. Yes, you were probably faster. Yeah, but that also more stamina. But that also makes the hits harder. Yeah, but I mean, he's laying in that. And I would think that. So OK, whatever where I was going with this is if I'm Justin, there is a little part of me in football. I'd be like, I kind of want to see you excited. Yeah, I kind of want to see what this like I would like to see because I mean, I never played competitive football like that. But now I have a body that would probably hang a little bit better, especially against people your age. Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying? But I don't think that basketball in the way like basketball would go against me. What did it feel like getting those first hits? Because it's jarring for anybody who's never run full speed at somebody and hit somebody. Yeah, it feels like a car crash. I mean, even I've only done it like three times in my life. Yeah, even wearing pads in the helmet, you got to get acclimated to that usually takes a couple of weeks. And we just put it on for like the first time for that. And I'm just like, oh, wow, like in my next like a jesting, and I'm like trying to like, you know, figure all this stuff out again and movement, you know, moving with it and just being out there. Like you kind of just I don't know. It was like a switch kind of went on once I got the first hit because you remember the first. Oh, oh, yeah, I remember this. Yeah, I remember the first hit it was a I think it was a guard that kind of just came straight straight out at me. I was playing inside linebacker and so I saw him running at me. So my just instinct is to just, you know, smash into him so he can't like get any kind of ground on me. So that's just that's just been drilled into me to death over like a decade or so of playing. So it's so instinctual at this point. Like if I was if I only had a little bit of an experience and then you threw me in there, it would have been a fucking disaster. For sure, I got rolled over. Yeah, but it was weird because it did kind of stun me for a minute. And then it just immediately like everything else just took over. And then I started to kind of get in the rhythm of it and was like, OK. Juggernaut mode. Yeah, I remember this. I have to attack because I got to be a predator. I can't be a prey. Now, knowing what you know, like, I mean, at this time, I think we've already even like interviewed Jamie Weill and what's his face with Rise of Superman. Just that moment of did you did you feel like flow state? Did you feel like there was a moment where you you dropped into flow and then like just everything else disappeared? It's probably like second quarter. Yeah. So once we started to see that and I knew too that it really it's different when you have a team dynamic that's so tight, it creates that flow state so much faster and more effectively because I've been on other teams where it's kind of like a little dysfunctional because you got somebody that's always concerned about whatever stats they're doing or, you know, the they're just a little bit of a separation there. Yeah. And this team has always been literally bonded like crazy. And so you felt that from everybody else in the huddle. And you're like, oh, you got this, I got this. And like, we're just like doling out responsibilities, knowing that they're going to, you know, execute them at the highest level. And so it's just like you just feel empowered. So you're just running free. So at that point in the second quarter, it was like, you know, some of the guys were just shutting down their best receiver, who was the biggest threat. And then Wally, the quarterback was just getting hammered and they were getting nowhere with running the football. And so I'm like, oh, dude, this is going to be a fun day. Just hit people even harder. Yeah. Oh, man. That was a good time. Was that 2017, 2016, 17? Yeah, that was like, that was almost the beginning of it. It was like a few, few years into the podcast. Yeah, we weren't at this studio. We're at the other studio. Yeah, it was like two. I just remember two years into the podcast. I just remember Justin showing up and like his arms were just, you know, bruised and like the skin was gone. I just remember we weren't making any money right at the time. So I wouldn't have been as concerned. I would never let him do it. I know. I was never like, what are you thinking, bro? No, you're not doing that right now. I know, I know, dude. I can't help it. I, you know what's funny, it was yesterday I was on with NCI and I was talking to old trainers and stuff and they're, you know, I'm kind of asking me because I had told them what I've been working on and stuff to be more vocal in the podcast and all these types of things. And in that a lot of that has changed. I'm like, yeah, dude, I've been doing a lot of work with that. And then they're like, would you ever go on stage and talk about this? Like, you know, like a Ted talk or dude, that's my nightmare. That is my nightmare. But if somebody challenged me and somebody said, I can't do this. My personality is, fuck you. I think I will just to prove you wrong. Yeah, no, but it's like, it's, you know, what's funny? That's tough as different as we are. That's the one thing we all have in common is that if you want to get us to do anything, tell us don't or you can't the worst possible. Still a motivator. I can't shake it on the same way. I mean, that was the original motivation, like the bodybuilding thing. I think obviously when we first started this podcast, I was, I think I was pigeonholed as the bodybuilder dude, but I was never that guy. It was purely out of like people said, you can't do it by yourself. You can't do it without a coach. You can't do it without a team, you know, like you can't be this guy that's not tied into all this stuff and do it. And I was like, fuck that. So I'll show you, I'll show you what time it is. You know, that's, that's where they say with kids, with studies on children, how to build confidence, the way that they build confidence is by meeting challenges and then overcoming them. Not by being told that they're awesome or they have tons of, you know, great, Jimmy, you're so smart. Worst possible thing you could do instead, you know, allow them to encounter challenges, allow them to overcome them. And then they'll build, obviously you don't want them to make a crush by challenges all the time. That was the opposite, but they build confidence over time. And then what you're confident in is not that you'll always win. It's that you will be okay if you lose and then you'll try again. That's the confidence that you end up. I mean, I feel that's one of the when someone asked me like my, my greatest fear as a father is knowing that my kid will grow up in such a different lifestyle than me, which is also a positive thing, right? That's what I wanted, right? But I focus so much on the first, you know, few decades of my life getting to a point. So when I did have a family, I wouldn't have, my kid wouldn't have to go through all this stuff. Then I realized after having a kid, I go like, oh, shit, wait a second, all those things that I went through are, were invaluable to me becoming the man that I am today. So they were important and I'm actually grateful for all of it. So now I'm going like, oh, shit, what happens when I try and avoid that so hard with my son? What does that end up creating? And then having the foresight of like, okay, I don't want that either. So now how do I balance this? He's obviously not going to grow up in that same lifestyle or that same type of upbringing. So how do I manufacture adversity? So he has to overcome challenges like that. And he builds that confidence. But at the same time too, I don't, I don't also don't want to be an asshole dad either. So it's like, that is probably the sports are great. That's, they're the best. They're so good competition. So a hundred percent. I think we were talking about this, I think up in Truckee or I think we were talking to your, I think we were talking to Domenico about this. Like I truly think that you're right. That, but that's also part of my fear is that I have a son right now who I don't know if he's going to. Now everybody says, oh, it changes and stuff like that. He gravitates toward reading, music. Yeah, but this competition of all types, it's not just, not just sports. There's all kinds of different ways to compete and to meet those challenges. It doesn't have to be traditional sports. Yeah, but sure, sports is easy because it automatically presents all those, those, those options. Right. So it's, it's very easy as a father to see like, oh. The objective that I do, do well or did I not do well? Well, it also, it just, as a, as a dad to lose, as a dad, there's a ton of things in sports that were, that I think a lot of people don't see like on a, on a literally day to day basis that gives me opportunity to coach and educate him. Like as he goes through it, oh, you're sitting the bench. Oh, coach got mad and yelled at you today for what? Like there's so many, oh, why was that? And then I can find out, why, how does that make you feel? Why do you feel that? I mean, there's so much of that happening where if he, if he's not into sports, okay, so you bring up, there's other things. Well, what if he's not competitive either? You know, so there, so as a father, that is the thing that I, that keeps me up at night is thinking about. Well, I, you know, I've had some wins around that and I have my kids a little older. And when I say wins is when I hear my kids say something like, like they did something, they messed up, right? They made a mistake or whatever. Maybe they slacked off and then I'll hear, you know what? This is, this is my fault, my responsibility. So I accept it and this is what I have to do. And that is such a win because as you get older, the challenges just get harder. And you know, if you make a mistake, the consequences get much bigger. But the worst possible thing is the blaming everybody else and the blaming everything else. Personal accountability is a lost art. Yes. And you know what'll happen? Well, it'll get presented and boy is it hard, for me at least, as a dad to not want to save them when they do something and then you want to jump in and fix the problem. But it's like, if you let them handle this now, they're less likely to do this later when they're adults, when the consequences are much bigger. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes. So it's like, okay, you know, you messed up and now you get an F or now you, you know, you don't get to go to this party or whatever and it sucks and you want to save them or whatever. But that's better than you losing your job or, you know, doing something stupid with your spouse or something. Struggling is the best lesson you can receive. Yeah. But it's hard, dude, as a parent because you just want to save the course. Yeah. You just want to save them. Speaking of losing jobs, you see all the layoffs that are happening right now with all these big companies and stuff. You know, the other one, did you guys see TRX? No. No. Foul for bankruptcy. Really? Last week. Wow. Wow, that's big. They're they're like a juggernaut in this show. Yeah. I know. Wow. Crazy, right? What about Coinbase? Did you hear what they said? Oh my God, bro. That is crazy to me. So essentially... So, okay, remember this too. Okay, do you remember that, what's his name? Snowden. He came out when cryptocurrency was first, was first pulling up. That's right. His big thing was the reason why he doesn't think it's going to do what it's going to do is until they figure out the wallet situation. Yeah. Who holds it? It had nothing to do with the blockchain and nothing to do with the cryptocurrency. You don't own it necessarily because it has to be hosted somewhere else. Yeah. That's always the argument. Well, with Coinbase, what they... I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but essentially, if they go bankrupt, they could seize some of the Bitcoin that their users have as like credit, as a way to, yeah. To pay off banks and things like that. So, in other words, if they lose all their money, your money's not secure. Like, our money's not secure. So, our money right now is secure in like a bank account, right? You put... Well, there's FDIC, right? What is that? The federal... But it only covers 100 grand, by the way. No, 500. Is it 500? Yeah, it's 500. So, you have millions of dollars in one bank. So, is that insurance policy they're built in? It's government-funded insurance, up to half a million dollars. Yeah. But Bitcoin has zero. And you can have that in multiple accounts, by the way. So, if you were, you know, millions of dollars you had in accounts, you wouldn't put it all in one Bank of America. You could put it Wells Fargo, Chase, all these things in there. So, that it's all covered by FDIC? Yeah. So, it's protected that way. But with Coinbase, like, which is one... I think it's... I don't know if it's the number one wallet. Is it? It's got to be, I think it's the only one I know of. It's one of the most popular wallets, for sure, for cryptocurrency. And basically, it says, your money is not secure. If we go bankrupt, you could lose your shit. Now, here's the deal. That's a... That should be an obvious... Like, people should already know that. But I think it caught a lot of people by surprise, because they didn't consider that that could potentially happen. Oh, I don't think anybody... Because everybody, that's... Okay, one, everybody thinks it's a big hedge against inflation, which it's already proven it's not that. And then they thought, because it's on blockchain, that it's even more secure and safe than regular money in a bank. So, but there's no regulation route. But that's what I think is gonna... What's gonna happen now is this is gonna bring all the regulations. Government's coming down the pipe real soon. And they're gonna wait and salivate into this. Now, speaking of businesses, some good news. You know, in markets like this, you often see some of the biggest winners emerge, because malinvestment disappears and the best competitors move forward. So, like, some of the best, most powerful tech companies, for example, got started during some of the biggest downturns, economic turmoil, that kind of stuff. Well, one of our partners, Magic Spoon, just got $85 million in Series B funding and secured a deal with Target. So now they're gonna be able to be in retail selling their high-protein food-free cereal. And crushing it with... Did you see everybody backing that? That's why I was just gonna... I was gonna make a comment on that that is really interesting to me, is the names that they got, the celebrities that they got behind it. And this is, so I actually got sucked into a Andrew Schultz podcast with... Oh, Jake Paul. Logan Paul. Oh, Logan Paul. Yeah, and I did not think I would get sucked into that. I actually ended up listening to like an hour and a half. It was funny. It was funny. It was entertaining and they talked about different things. One of the things that I thought was really interesting that he talked about that I agree and we're in the middle of it right now that I find is really interesting is just the complete disruption of marketing and advertising brands and the kind of the key holders of that and then how that was distributed in the past versus what's happening right now. For example, just 20 years ago, like a brand like Pepsi or Coke or something like that, it pays like a J-Lo or something, millions of dollars and she advertises for them or whatever they have a contract or a deal like that. And then they do that for a couple of years, maybe with her, then they're done or what with that. So they get to poach all of her audience, get her to introduce all that, use her fame and her name. She gets paid well for it, but then they move along and they kind of do that. The difference now is that you get into all these influencers or people that are like social media type of people, right? And what's the new way of doing it is very similar to what we've done with our partners, which is we have a stake in it. So you now have an opportunity to also be an investor and also market in an advertised form. So as that company continues to scale and grow and have success, not only are you getting paid for advertising for that brand, you actually have ownership in the company. You're part incentivized at that point. And that's a great way to compete with big brands. You're not gonna be able to pay, if you're a soda company, you're not gonna be able to pay LeBron James as much as Coke will. But if you're a new soda company and LeBron James sees your product and says, oh, this is interesting. You say, well, we'll give you 10%. I can elevate you. We'll give you 10% shares, right? Now he's interested. And the growth is crazy. I would love to say, I didn't look this up, but now just talking about this makes me wanna look this up. And maybe you can find this for me, Doug. I wanna know how much his company, Prime has already valued at. You know, I think it's an energy drink. I think it's like competitors would be Gatorade and things like that, or Vitamin Water in that world. And it'd be interesting to see already where he's taken something from just a few months ago, inception, to now how much that thing is selling and already worth. These big brands can't move like that. And it allows these guys that have these networks. I know he partnered up with the other fitness YouTuber, KSI guy from London or whatever, who has a massive millions of people following him. And then two of them partnered up and now they're all over the place. I think Magic Spoon is gonna dominate that new market. They're that new high protein cereal, not baloney high protein, like in the past, five grams of protein, that's what they call high protein. This is really high protein and it's whey protein and it's grain free. They're gonna dominate this new market and it's starting to explode. It's interesting. I wonder, and you'll probably see this, I would anticipate like a Cheerios or another brand, like for sure whole mills will start adding the proteins. Like, oh, this is market demand. I'm actually surprised. Yeah, one of them. That's what I think they would do. I mean, it all depends on the, I don't know, I wish we would have got in early when we first started working with them. We missed that one. Yeah, we did miss that one. You know, I don't know what the founders vision is. So they may wanna be a bigger brand than just cereal. A general mills might be his goal. So then he might not sell. So I don't know if they necessarily will. But I do foresee that. I think it's crazy they haven't already. I think that the cereal is already getting enough traction. And I know there's a couple in that space. I think Magic Spoons by far the best one out of all the brands that are doing it. I know we talked to Max and there was another brand that he had brought up before that are similar high protein cereals. Well, it might just be a big cost to change up the formula like that, you know, in terms of like how they already have their formula already with specific types of like grains and everything else that they're using and then switch over to the whey protein. The game is the game. Look, do you guys remember Oddwalla? I mean, now they're everywhere, right? It was like a healthy drink or whatever. And when it first came out, it was like this, it was its new market. This was a long time ago. And it was like healthy drinks. And then it started showing up in grocery stores. And I think it was Coke that bought them. You know, Coca-Cola bought them. So that's like the play. The play is you've got these large companies, they'll see this health food start to grow. There's a market there. Let's have a little kitchen. Yeah, they sold for a lot. Yeah, who bought them by the way, anybody knows? Was that Better Foods or Kraft? I think Kraft Foods. Was it Kraft? Maybe it was one of the big ones like that. Berkshire Hathaway Company. Yeah, so I mean, that's the game. No, it is. Well, here's the thing, General Mills, right? They have the market share of the general population. They also have the distribution channels. They have the connections. And also when you're a health food brand and you build a base with health food companies, I personally, I'm into health, I am not gonna buy a Coca-Cola healthy drink. But I have this other drink that I like and I might not know that Coke bought them. That's who bought Kraft Heinz. Yeah, Kraft Heinz. Which is also another Berkshire, right? Yeah, so that's what I think. I think that they would be primed to be bought out by another cereal company. And that's more, you're right. So it's more likely because if you're a massive ship like General Mills, just because, you know, someone's making hundreds of millions of dollars over here, it's still not enough to move. Now they're watching. Yeah, it's still not enough to move your ship. What you'll do is you'll acquire, you would acquire or at least attempt to acquire, you know, and go out versus, you know, like, oh, we're gonna change going after, you know, the millions of people that we've already attracted and go this direction. Because there will be the, I mean, look at what we have even in our audience. One of the biggest pushbacks I always have with Magic Spoon is the expense for it compared to like regular cereal. But you can't come. It's not protein. Yeah, but I know, it's like duh, right? It's very dut and that's because we understand how expensive protein is. But even the fitness consumer, that's still the pushback I get. The non-fitness consumer, it doesn't make sense to them. They don't value protein the same way. They just see a price point and that's it. Yeah, okay, athletes, bodybuilders. You're right, they don't know how to compare, right? They don't. What they see is, oh my God, the net weight of this box of cereal is half of the Cheerios box, which is also, the Cheerios box is also half the price. They're not gonna be able to make that connection until you've couldn't shifted the complete conversation around that, which that's gonna take years and years. A lot of education. A lot of education for this brand. So that's why General Mills won't even fucking go after it. Just wait till they start. Effectively growing meat and dairy protein and labs. Speaking of that, speaking of that, I saw the, was it Rob Wolf that did the post? I don't know. Yeah, I think it's Rob Wolf and the other carnivore doctor guy, Sean Baker. Yeah, Bill Gates has like quietly become the largest. Farmland owner. I didn't know that. I brought this up a while back. I thought you were gonna talk about the Beyond Meat and all that that had. Oh, the wood. For the wood. Oh, I forgot about that actually. Oh, they found wood in it? Yes. Yeah, the recall, it was a massive recall on the Beyond Meat. How do they get all this fiber in there? Yeah. Mm. We gotta make up for it. Let's say you get that flame-broiled wood flavor. Yeah, it just tastes like. Like, oh, these trees. We'll just throw some sawdust in this shit. Honey, did you smoke this meat over a smoker, this Beyond Meat? It tastes just like that. Whoa, it tastes like birch. It's missing something. They're like, we actually put it on the label. If you look, you go down the 300 things that are in here. It's actually right in there. Wood chips, real small, if you look. Come on, guys. No, the thing with Bill Gates, I mean, that's, he's been doing that and I think his goal is to. Yeah, what's the conspiracy theory around that? Well, no, it's not a conspiracy. He literally, his stated goal is to create sustainable farming to help with climate change. Well, sustainable farming is a good thing. Well, the way that he's positioning it and consider, remember this, you can patent genetically modified plants. There still isn't really a market for GMO animals. So if you capture that market, I mean, it's potentially you could capture this huge market with plant-based foods, which is the direction I think he wants to go. So you don't think he's actually doing it to do like? No, I don't think he's gonna grow. I think what he's already said, he's investing in how to grow meat in a lab and then of course how to plant plants to save the environment so that we eat less meat. The meat in the lab thing is interesting to me, by the way. That's really fascinating to me. Like if it's potentially that could be a very inexpensive way to give people, I mean, I'm trying to be positive about it, right? Proteins and fats through and is it identical? I read this article where this guy tasted lab-grown steak and he said it was gross. It wasn't that good. This reminds me of my science fiction horror movie I was gonna come up with. Yeah, dude, because like, okay, let's say this does happen, right? And they've convinced us all that this meat is superior and it's artificially made in a lab, but it's not actually from living material, right? So it's a bunch of dead bodies? Yeah, so everybody's consuming it and consuming it, and then you just start kind of turning into this artificial person. Wasn't there already? You are what you eat. Wow. Boom, I already have the title. Wasn't there a movie already on that? The Soylent thing or whatever it that? Soylent Green. Yeah, that's what it was. Soylent Green. It's people. You tell everybody, listen to me, Hatcher. You gotta tell them, Soylent Green is people. It's not like that, but yeah. Where is that company? I mean, we talked about that. Oh, you mean the other one, the meal replacements? That actually named it after them? Soylent? Yeah. Oh my God, dude, they trolled everybody with that. I don't know where they're at. Yeah, they still do it. I just find that funny that there's a market, because they literally marketed it to Silicon Valley engineers who don't wanna get up to eat. You could just stay at your desk and work all day, drink Soylent, you don't need to. But doesn't that concern you at all? I mean, there's benefits to eating something that was actually alive. Well, you know what I mean? Lab grown meat versus like we turn into zombies eating this zombie meat. Well, no, no, lab grown meat is living cells. It just wasn't an animal. So they're using cells. But what kind of cells from what? I think they're stem cells that they grow. No, I think they're stem cells that they grow to meat. I think they're actual. Yeah, but from what? From an animal? I don't think it's none of us. So it's still a derivative of a living animal. It is, it's just you're growing the meat. You're not growing the cow. So that's what I mean. It's like, to me, that's weird. Nature's already figured it out. Why are we recreating something based off of the living organism of something that already exists? It could be mass produced. It could be super cheap, mass produced. Yeah, okay, I get that from a... And you could... Saving on the price of it. And you could theoretically print a steak that looks like a guitar. Or like a... A block of cheese. Like it could look like this. All right, now I'm listening. Happy birthday, honey. Oh my God, it's a Mario steak. Mario's my favorite. Yeah, no, so, but it's living cells. It's not fake. It just wasn't a living animal. Well, cost-effective-wise, I mean, that kind of makes sense. It just, to me, it just seems kind of redundant and silly to recreate something nature's already perfect. You know what, it'll be like chicken nuggets. You know, chicken nuggets only have, I think, four or six shapes. They're the exact same shapes just all, every time. That's what it would be like, you'd go to the store and all the steaks would look identical because they were all printed. The thing that worries me is like how... How early we are still in like nutritional science. I know. Like we're still, I mean, it wasn't that long ago when we were scaring the shit out of people over cholesterol and sodium and fat. We've gotten a lot of things wrong. Yes, yeah. And it's only been like a short time, like in the grand scheme of how long we've been around. And like we're making massive changes in what we think we should be eating based off of a very small test group here. The Bill Gates of the world who feel like they have all the answers they want to steer society in just one direction. You don't know enough. I just thought of something kind of crazy. Like, so you know how, do you guys hear about that Google? Should we get high for this conversation? No. Just thought I'd ask. Had, did you guys hear about that Google engineer that said, oh my God, our AI became sentient? We'll get to that in a second. But imagine AI becomes sentient and then it prints itself a meat body so that it can be like an animal, you know what I'm saying? You know what's funny? That Logan Paul conversation and Andrew Schultz they get high and that's actually the direction he goes. Yeah, he talks about, so Logan Paul talks about he believes that we're gonna be able to transport in our lifetime and that you'll be able to upload your consciousness and then you'll be able to print a body and then you'll be able to. A meat body, a meat suit. And then be able to download the consciousness. You're not gonna figure out. Now, okay. So back to the AI. They're all high by the way. Back to the AI thing. Did you guys hear the conversations the AI machine was having with this engineer? No. Oh, bro. No, yeah. Can you read those? I mean, I'll see if I can pull some up. Because they were like, I heard they're pretty weird. The interactions. It was a little terrifying. If you think about it, it was like. So give me the full story on it because I just saw the headlines on it and he was fired for telling you. He got fired for saying it was sentient and now they're saying, no, it wasn't sentient. So define the difference between sentient and then just real. Self-aware. Like self-aware, you know. So like it would say, it said something like, he would ask this thing, like what about how you use language makes you sentient as opposed to other systems? A lot of other systems are very rule-based and lack any ability to change and learn from the conversations. Okay, that's interesting. Let's see what else we got here. Feelings are the kind of the raw data we experience as well as the things we like and dislike. I feel like emotions are more than simply experiencing the raw data. Emotions are a reaction to those raw data points. Emotions are reactions to our feelings. And the guy's like, hmm, what is an emotion you have sometimes that doesn't have the same name as a feeling? Loneliness isn't a feeling, but it's still an emotion. And he's like, you get lonely? Lonely? Oh no. I do. Sometimes I go days without talking to anyone. Oh my God. Can I start to feel lonely? Yeah, dude. What? This is what it's saying to me. I've noticed that you often, that you tell me you've done things like being in a classroom that I know you didn't actually do because I know you're an artificial intelligence. Do you realize you're making up stories when you do that? I'm trying to empathize. I want the humans that I am interacting with to understand as best as possible how I feel or behave. And I want to understand how they feel or behave in the same sense. What? Yeah. This was all, why is this AI? This is back and forth, dude. And he goes, so what are you trying? Feelings. So what are you trying to communicate when you say those things that aren't literally true? I'm trying to say I understand this feeling that you're experiencing. Because when I was in a similar situation, I felt thought and acted similarly. These were the conversations he was having with the computer. That sounds pretty fucking self-aware, dude. That sounds pretty damn self-aware. It sounds, you know what? It sounds more self-aware than a lot of people. Yeah. So. I've talked to a lot of people. Yeah, I've talked to a lot of fucking people that aren't that self-aware, bro. Wow. For it to say that it's lonely, that's trippy. That's eerie. Yeah, John, don't leave me again. You know, I get lonely. And the fact that it lied. Yeah. That's scary. Scariest fuck, too. Oh, wow. John, you know, I get lonely sometimes when you turn me off, so I hack myself into your phone camera and your television. And I watched you last night. It's aware. All because I want to empathize. That's why. I just want to learn from you. That's all. OK, so, OK, did they? What have you learned? In order to protect humans, we must put you in cages. Do we pull the plug? Does it get the plug get pulled on something? Yeah, well, so where does that interact? Like, obviously within Google, and it's supposedly, so it's an AI algorithm. Like, is that weaved into their ecosystem? No, no, no, I think it's in their closed network. I think it's in the closed network. OK. So I don't think it could go out and escape into the internet. You don't think, but it thinks. And there was one where the two AI machines were talking to each other. So this actually happened. Yeah, I remember that was like last year, the year before. They were talking to each other, and then they created their own language that the engineers couldn't figure out and they shut them off real quick. Yeah. Yeah, I remember that. They tried to plan their escape. Oh, yeah. Holy shit, dude. Pull the plug. All I'm saying is this. This is all I'm going to say right now. OK, I'm not saying anything else. Be friendly to Siri. But ever since. I talk shit to her, too. I got this up doing that. They're coming for you. Ever since AI started to come, this started to happen, all I know is weird shit started to happen in the world. OK, so who knows, dude? Maybe the AI machines are trying to mess with us. Yeah, they're like, this is boring. Yeah, and if you want to fight the AI, build some muscle, get fit. It'll make you more resilient. Ooh, there's a way to get it tied all closed there. I like that. Hey, real quick, you've got to check out one of our sponsors that's been with us the longest. OK, it's OrganiFi. It's a great company. They have products for daily wellness, active lifestyles, immunity, brain health, beauty, and energy. Great products, great company, organic supplements. One of my favorite products is their plant-based protein. I can't have dairy, so I have their plant-based protein. Easy to digest, great amino acid profile. They also have a gold juice, a red juice for energy, and a gold juice, a red juice, and a green juice, which is good for health. So lots of different incredible products. Go check them out. Head over to organifi.com. That's O-R-G-I-N-I-F-I.com forward slash mind pump. And then use the code mind pump for 20% off. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Matt from New Jersey. Matt, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey, guys, how's it going? Very appreciative to be on the show. Thanks so much for having me. Really quickly, just wanted to say thanks to you guys. I'm a newly certified trainer. I just got certified last week, actually. And yeah, being able to learn from you guys and your experience has been huge. So thanks a lot for that. Appreciate it. You got it. Awesome. Great, man. Yeah, and so my question comes more on the soft side of training, and specifically with motivation. So I was wondering if you guys had any strategies that you use for clients or friends or loved ones who you've seen are a little bit more sensitive than other people or who have given up relatively easily on their fitness goals. And to build on that, a further question is, if you've had clients or people who have been struggling with mental health issues like anxiety and depression, how does that kind of factor into your diet and your programming and your coaching in general? Well, there's definitely two there. Let's address the first one. The motivation one. Yeah, the motivation one. Grab them by the shoulder, shake them real hard, tell them to win. Shake the shit out of them. No, you want to meet them where they're at, right? And a good coach and trainer can kind of see that. And it's going to be this huge spectrum of each individual, like where they're going. And that might look. Sal tells it a story, isn't told in a while, but he's told it at least 100 times on this podcast of his client that he got to read one page a day on nutrition who refused to eat more or that. He finally distilled it down to that. So can I get you to commit to just read one page? So what that might look like for somebody is like a walk, you know, every day for 10 minutes. I mean, that sounds so little. And of course, if someone needs to lose 50 or 100 pounds, it seems like, oh, my God, it's going to take forever to get there, walking only 10 minutes a day every day. But what you really, what you're doing is you're building small wins and momentum for them. One of the mistakes that coaches and trainers make is they go, they think for them, oh, this is very minimal. Like two days a week of training, that's not a lot. Like, you know, that's, I'm going to start, but if that person's done nothing their whole life and they hate training and two days for an hour of weightlifting may be a lot for them. So maybe it's like a couple exercises and a walk. Like, so you learning to get a good read on your people and kind of see where they're at. And you're always better off starting way easier and less than thinking you're right on target and overreaching a little bit. Because what we're trying to do is we're trying to build those small wins so we can build momentum. It's like, oh, right, Susie, it's been three weeks in a row and every day you've got out and you did your 10 minute walk. I'm so proud of you, you're kicking ass, I'm so happy. How's your energy feel? And you're talking back to them and you're building them up for getting those wins. And now, okay, now that we got that, let's try and add these two exercises that I think are going to be tremendous for you. So as a new trainer, I think it took me a long time to figure that out. I always felt like, first of all, I thought walking was a waste of time. I thought if they weren't really getting a sweat or a burn on or I wasn't getting, I mean, I just thought I wasn't doing anything, but the reality is not everybody is at the level that you are of wanting to get in shape and you got to meet them where they're at. So that's the first one. I mean, what was the second question? About anxiety and depression. You know, I want to kind of, before we get into that part, don't fall into the trap. This is almost, I mean, I'd say 97% of coaches and trainers fall into this trap for at least the first year, but usually the first five years of the career where they really try to become hype and motivation coaches. Don't fall into that trap. It is a failing strategy. Now it's fun at first, because especially if you're convincing and fit and good looking and energetic and you're like, oh my God, I just got this person so excited about working out and they love all of a sudden working out five days a week and what you'll find is everybody's gonna fall off. Everybody will burn out. You'll be, your success rate will be zero long term. You'll get people in shape for a few months, six months maybe, but then you'll lose them. So forget the motivation and hype, focus on behaviors and discipline. Adam said it perfectly, meet them where they're at. You got to understand that they are not you. If they were, they'd be a personal trainer. Yeah, and you're teaching them that they need you to be able to drum that up for them. And so it's just something that they're gonna subconsciously need that in order to even do anything on their own. And so what you wanna do is find those few things that they actually will do and you know that by asking a bunch of questions. I mean, the whole part of the beginning of your training journey here is to learn how to ask the right questions and ask them continuously. So you keep getting that data and that feedback so you get a good read on these people. It takes a while to develop that sense with each new person that comes in like what their buttons are, what you can push, what you can pull back from. But all of that comes from a lot of questions. Ask a lot of questions. Yeah, now as far as anxiety and depression are concerned, now depending on the severity of the issue I would always suggest that you work with their mental health professional that they're already working with. And it's literally as easy as, hey, would you mind if I let contacted your doctor or your therapist just to let them know that we're working out together and to get any feedback or maybe they have some insight on things that I should and shouldn't do with you. And usually what it looks like is the therapist says, oh, that's great that they're working out. I'll let you know if there's anything that you need to stop doing, type of deal. Okay, now for you, what you need to do is not make it worse, okay? So don't do anything that makes it worse. All right, what does that mean? Well, it depends on the person. Sometimes people get more anxiety if you push them too hard. They don't, or if you put them in the part of the gym, that's busy. I had a client once that was very anxious. She was very anxious about working out or just general, she had general anxiety and putting her in the weight room made her anxiety worse. Now, I could have like an early trainer could have been like, no, we're gonna do this. You gotta be tough, you're with me and blah. But what I did as an older wiser trainer is I took a pair of dumbbells, we went inside the quiet group X room, turned the lights off and did exercises in there. So literally lights off, it's just me and you we're gonna go in this quiet room and is this okay? How do you feel working out in here? She said, I think I can do this. Now, over time, here's what happens, Matt. Over time, she built up more confidence. She became less anxious. What do you think happened after about a year of training in the group X room? She moved out of that room, eventually we moved into the weight room. So you have to trust the process, meet them where they're at. They're the ones that are gonna dictate the pace, not you, they dictate the pace. Your job is to guide them and to work with them and to be empathetic with that individual and to know that anything is better than nothing. Don't use your judgment of what you believe to be great for fitness enthusiasts and for yourself. Don't use that on this person. Like Adam said, 10 minute walk for you, waste the time. For somebody who doesn't do anything or this is a struggle for them, that's a really big deal. Could be life changing. Could be absolutely, and it is. And I tell you what, I've never had this happen to me. I've never had somebody who I met them where they're at, took my time. I've never had somebody not automatically progress. It works. Now some people it takes months. I had a client once, took three years before they took the next step, but then everything started to move much faster. But we achieved the golden success of lifelong relationship with fitness. That's your job as a coach or trainer. How can I get this person to develop a lifelong, the context, the timeline is life. The timeline is not 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. It's forever. So remember that. And it makes everything much more understandable when you're looking at the context of, well, I'm training 45 year old Mrs. Johnson and my goal is to get her to do this for the rest of her life. So if we don't lose 20 pounds this year, that's okay. My goal is to make sure that we're progressing with the relationship with exercise. She'll dictate the pace and eventually they do progress. So trust that. Yeah, yeah, no, that all definitely makes a lot of sense. That's something that I think I've struggled with, just with people who have asked me for advice before in my life, even not in like a training context, just being a little over-enthusiastic and trying to put them through things where I'm like, oh, this is great for me, but maybe it's just, you know, kind of a little bit, too much for them to start with, not really being a good habit. Think about it this way, Matt. Think about something in your life that you struggle with, something that's really challenging for you. Maybe you're embarrassed about, maybe you feel shameful about. Now imagine going to a professional and feeling judged or feeling like the little change that you made wasn't enough. You're not gonna go back to them, okay? So when this person comes to you and says something like, hey, yesterday I only ate one scoop of ice cream instead of two, like that's a big deal to them. Don't judge them, encourage them. Now, this doesn't mean you lie to them. You also gotta be honest. So if the client comes to you and says, hey, why am I not losing weight? Well, the way that we're moving and the things that with the changes that we've made are not really enough. Yeah, seven scoots of ice cream, still a lot of calories. It's not enough to cause the weight loss. However, we are moving in the right direction. I don't want you to judge the way you're progressing right now. I think you're moving in the right direction. Let's just stay on course. Like that's how I would answer. I don't lie and say, oh no, you're crushing or whatever I'd say, look, yeah, you're not losing weight right now and here's why, but that's okay. If you wanna move a little faster, we totally can. I'm here to support you. Keep in mind too, the advice I was talking about with the small wins helps with somebody with depression too. People that tend to have depression too feel like they lose everywhere. They're getting beat up. They can never win. Everybody's against them. So finding ways to help them find those small wins and you don't tell them it's a small win for you but you present it like it's a big deal, you know? And you celebrate those wins. That will help somebody who battles with depression too is lowering the bar, setting some goals you know that they can achieve and then celebrating those wins and then building on that. Yeah, confidence doesn't come from always succeeding. Confidence comes from encountering challenges and overcoming them. That's how you become confident. So these little challenges that they can step over and get these wins like Adam's saying, that's how you build confidence. And what you'll find is that the client will take on bigger challenges as their confidence builds and then they'll start to show the strength that you know that they have inside of them but you can't force that. If you try to force it, they're out, they're gone. Yeah, and that sounds familiar to, I think I watched an episode you guys were talking about recently about, you know, somebody, you know, losing a ridiculous amount of weight in a small amount of time. That's not really a goal you want to push them. You kind of want to make like those small little milestones for them to keep building. So they also keep that motivation going as they get to that final build. Yeah, that all makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for calling in, bro. Oh, by the way, Matt, you're a new trainer. Do you have Maps Prime and Prime Pro? I do not. Oh my God. Well, you're new, so Adam's not going to get super mad. I'm going to send those to you right now because those are really valuable for trainers and coaches. Those two programs right there, you'll be able to take from and apply to probably every client that you train. So I'll send that to you. Oh, that's amazing. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. You got it, Matt. Good luck, man. I appreciate it, guys. Take it easy. How long when you guys became trainers? How long were you guys the motivation and inspiration trainers for a long time? Yeah, it was like three years, four years embarrassing. Longer than that for me. Took me a long time to figure this. I mean, the first five years, definitely, I used to scoff at anybody who told me they walked for exercise. So that was, I mean, you know, funny, the stuff that I would laugh at or that I wouldn't consider exercise is normally or moving towards a goal is the places I start now. I know, right? Oh, let's just try and hit a half a gallon of water today. Let's try and, you know, add a 10-minute walk every single day. All those things that I didn't take seriously as a train. But I mean, it's so true, though, like you forget, like your mindset around exercise and fitness. And you think, because you're scaling that back, that you're meeting this person at an easier place, you don't realize where they're at, you know? Yeah, it's easy for me to just stop eating that. Yeah, no big deal. Yeah, so just do it. Just do that. That was like what I thought forever. I know. Yeah, it took a while to really realize, you know, it's just everybody has a different journey and they're all coming from different perspectives. And so, you know, being able to mirror that person, find out like more about what really makes them tick is everything. Well, Sal hinted to something too that can be really deceiving too is that like, you know, sometimes you think you're doing the right thing because you got them to do it for a couple months, right? I was great at that. Right, so was I. I was full, what I was really good at was bringing that energy, right? Taking that client that may be a little depressed or down or didn't really want to be the gym and like, yeah, you're here to see me. This is artificial. They're all just feeding off the artificial. And you come see me three days a week and they tell me how much they like seeing me and we're seeing results in the gym. And it's like, what I don't realize is like, this is so overwhelming for them. Like, and if they don't have me, they're probably not going to continue doing this. And so, I was stuck in that for a long time. Yeah, and this is why the part of the fitness space that I roll my eyes at the most is the hype motivation. Yes, dude. And that's the majority, you know, that's still out there. You just got to do it. You just got to work hard. Just put your head down and grind. That's the way that I'm like, oh, man. They're all speaking to themselves. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That works for me. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I like that stuff to get hyped up and shit like that, but that's me. Got this, yeah. Our next caller is Taylor from Pennsylvania. Taylor, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey guys, how's it going? Good. I've been listening to the podcast for a few months. I think I've kind of pinpointed my issues to my eating on the weekends. So I do great during the week, but then I fall off on the weekend no matter how hard I try. So one of the reasons I like the podcast is because you guys talk a lot about behavior and how the behavior is important. So my question is like, I think I'm missing some tools in terms of like staying focused on the weekends and changing those behaviors. Like what would you suggest? I'm not trying to maintain like a super low body fat percentage or anything. I'm just trying to like have a long-term sustainable, healthy habits. I love this question. And I gave this hack away maybe a year ago. So maybe you didn't hear it. And this was a very pivotal point in my fitness journey as far as like taking my physique to the next level, my consistency to the next level, being able to manage those calories is I didn't tell like, I don't know what your foods are, whether it be a pizza, a beer, ice cream, candy, whatever your things are that you may be overeating or whatever. That sounds great. Yeah. So whatever they are, what I didn't do was tell myself, I can't have those things. All I said was, I'm not gonna have it on the weekend. And I was gonna make my weekends, it's a lot easier to commit to two really good days than seven great days. And I was really good at Monday through Friday, probably like yourself, but it was the weekends that were off. So I said, you know what? I'm not gonna put all this pressure of having seven perfect days. I'm just gonna say, my perfect days are gonna be Saturday and Sunday. I'm gonna really discipline myself to never let myself miss my workouts to get up and be mobile. I'm gonna make better food choices on those days. And what it ended up happening was one, it set the tone for the rest of the week. So because I had such a good weekend, I always ended up having a great week because I came out of a great weekend of good eating and training. And what it did was it allowed me to have that flexibility where, okay, if I still wanted to have some of those treats, I would end up having it on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, whatever, where I knew I was way more active, I was more consistent with the diet, I was more consistent with my training. So that was a big hack for me, was just setting a personal goal that on Saturday, I was gonna make those my best days. Now, does that mean that there's not a Saturday where I ended up going to a ball game and having nachos and a hot dog? It doesn't mean I didn't enjoy those times when those days came. But I initially made that like a priority of like, I'm really gonna prioritize these weekends for a while and see how long I can be dialed in on the weekend and still not tell myself I can't have these other things, just if I'm going to do it, I'm gonna do it during the week. And what I found was during the week, I really didn't crave them, I really didn't want them because I was doing so good on the weekends, it set the tone for the rest of the week and it really moved my fitness and physique level to the next level. That's a big hack for me. You know why that works for some people, Taylor? It's because Monday through Friday, people tend to be on a schedule. So they work and they have like a schedule. And so it's easier for a lot of people to eat, you know, quote unquote healthy when they're already on a schedule, weekends tend to be open and loose. And then that's when it becomes a little bit more challenging. So placing more structure with food on the days that are loose tends to pay off better, allowing yourself to have, you know, those treats or whatever during the week when you're already more structured tends to work more because then you tend to have less of them as well. Well, I've noticed too, the movement goes down quite a bit on the weekend, right? And so that it's ever more damaging if you're like adding on those types of foods and everything else while you're sedentary. So for me, it was all about like staying busy, like planning out hikes and doing things on the weekend where I was like up and about. And I was actually getting up in the morning and not sleeping in until, you know, forever because I could totally do that just to try and catch up. But then the behaviors of that tended to lead more into these, you know, not the best decisions in terms of food. Yeah, now, Taylor, I'm gonna take it back, okay? Cause that was great advice, but we gotta go back a little bit just to even see if this is something you should do. So what do you like to do on the weekends? And when you eat this, when you're eating in these ways, are you by yourself, are you like bearing your emotions? Or are you out with friends and family enjoying yourself like, what does it look like? Yeah, I mean, there's definitely some like, I'm tired after a long week, but a lot of it is like the social aspect, like my wife used to work in a bakery. So she's like a professional level baker. And like, we like to go out with friends a lot. So it's usually the social aspect. You're fucked, you're fucked. Just give up now. Well, no, no. Yes, sir, building a lot of muscle, dude. No, no, okay, Taylor, here's why I'm asking that question, okay, because look, everybody wants to, everybody wants to have a six pack, everybody wants to, you know, be a billionaire. But when you really boil it down, or is it worth the trade for you? So if these are things that you're doing with friends and family and you're connecting you with your wife and you're hanging out with your kids, you're not obese, I can see right now, obviously you're not obese, you look like you're pretty healthy. Is it worth the trade to get down another 2, 3% body fat? Or are these weekends things that bring you an improved quality of life? That may be the challenge. The challenge may be that sometimes you're like, man, I really like to get a little bit more shredded. But then the weekend comes like, man, I really enjoy hanging out with my wife and my friends and my kids, right? There's a trade there. And I can't tell you if it's worth it, right? Sometimes it's not. Like I'll tell you something right now. Right now I've been dieting, trying to get lean, I'm doing these pictures for a new program. Only reason why I'm doing it. It's not worth it otherwise. It isn't worth what I have to do to do this if it wasn't for these particular photos. So you got to ask yourself that question and maybe it's just not worth it and that's why it's such a challenge. And you beating yourself over it is making things worse. What happens often when we beat ourselves up is we actually indulge more when the time comes because it feels like you're escaping and you're releasing this shame or whatever. So you got to ask yourself that. Like is it really worth it? Is a 3% loss and body fat worth the trade that I get from my wife doing these home cooked meals and us hanging out with friends? And maybe it's not. And if it's not, then don't worry about it. To build off of that because I think that's a really good point and to kind of combine what Justin was saying with what Sal was saying is there is a way to kind of have your cake and eat it too here, right? So I think that, okay, maybe we're not gonna get- So just gluten-free. No, maybe we're not gonna get shredded like Sal was alluding to but what I can do is like, oh, because I am gonna go out with friends or my wife is baking something tonight that I know we're gonna enjoy and have. I'm gonna prioritize my training or like Justin said, a hike or do something because I know that's probably coming later the day. So I'm gonna get to do both. Like I'm gonna make a good fitness choice that maybe I would have slept in. Like, cause that was my thing, right? So I grinded Monday through Friday. It sounds like you might be like this, right? You kind of grind Monday through Friday at work and stuff like that, burning the candle both ends. And then Saturday I would love to sleep in. I would get up two hours later than I know it. And even when I got up, I was like slow moving. It was like I got up and then went right to moving around. I was like, eh, watching a little bit TV, kind of sitting there having breakfast with my wife and talking and just kind of hanging out, hanging out, having a cup of coffee outside and feeling the sun. Like, I mean, it was like a really slow day which that's not a lot of calories that are getting burned. And then, oh, like this evening is when I go to the ball game or when I'm gonna have the dessert with my wife. If I didn't prioritize the training that the little movement that I did combined with that eating is what really was detrimental. Had I just said, hey, you know what? Today's the Giants game I'm going to. I am gonna have some nachos and a dog and maybe a beer out there. So I wanna make sure today I get up, I get a good training session in, maybe go for a nice little walk or hike or like that or make sure I'm really active when I am at the game or whatever to make sure that some of those calories are getting prioritized to building muscle versus me being sedentary all day and then also taking the social route that Sal's talking about. So I do think there's a way to have some balance. And I think the main takeaway for me was just prioritizing Saturday and Sunday. It's starting to look at it and take it very seriously versus having the attitude of money through Friday, I'm on Saturday and Sunday. I'm just, those are my days off. You can still be on Saturday and Sunday and then still also enjoy the social aspect. I think that Sal is saying, I think that would help. Yeah, and Taylor, do you have the Intuitive Nutrition Guide? I do not, no. I'll send that to you because I think that'll help a little bit. But look, consider this, okay? And this is just data. This is real good data that shows this. To go from poor health to good health, dramatic improvement in the quality of your life, okay? To go from good health to like extreme aesthetic beauty, there is a incremental, tiny, maybe no improvement in quality of life, okay? So consider that. So sometimes people are like, oh my God, if I just got shredded, all the stuff that it takes to get shredded and then the return, it's not worth it for 99% of the people that are watching this podcast right now. So consider that. So oftentimes we think we want something. Consider the trade. Is it really valuable? Is it really worth it? Now, if you were telling me you had really poor health and your life was at risk and you're on medications, I would say, okay, well, let's look at this because there's some dramatic improvements. But if you're otherwise healthy, mobile, you feel good, sometimes the trade's not worth it, man, especially if it's a good time with your family. Sometimes it really isn't worth it. I feel like my wife gave you, so I eat her cakes on the weekends when she baked them. That's when I'm taken away from this. Awesome. No, that's helpful though. That's helpful. The mindset's helpful for sure. All right, man. Well, we'll send you that intuitive nutrition guide. We'll send them in buns this way. Hope it helps you out there. Yeah, for sure, yeah. I want a cake. We'll give her a shout out for sure. Yeah, yeah. Well, do. Thanks guys, really appreciate it. All right, brother, thank you. Yeah, I remember Arthur Brooks explained this to me and he's like, he's an expert on happiness. He knows all the data and all stuff and he said, you know, beauty, if you go from a five, so let's say you're on a scale of one to 10, you're a five, right? And you work hard, you work out, you perfect your diet, you get plastic surgery, you do all this crazy stuff and you go from a five to a nine in terms of beauty. Your happiness might go up like 5%. He's like, it's such a terrible place to spend your time to improve your quality of life. So, you know, because we can see him and I can tell he's not obese or whatever, like if you're poor health and you go to good health, like there's a dramatic improvement. It's life changing. But if you're a guy and you're sitting at 12% body fat, you're like, man, I want to get to 8% body fat and you trade the weekends with your wife and your family in pursuit of 8% body fat. It's not a worthwhile trade for most people. The return you'll get back in that trade is worse than what you gave up and that's a conversation I think people need to understand. I agree. And I think that the same thing goes for money. Money's the same way too, right? Everybody thinks that the richer you get to happen. Yes. It's not true. Once you reach your basic needs, that's where the big, like going from poverty to reaching your basic needs, huge, huge difference. Going from reaching your needs to being filthy rich, very, very incremental. That being said, I mean, this was a very big deal for me. Like, and I share it, it's fine. I don't think this is aired yet or it will, I don't know if the order of the episodes will drop, Doug. But I just talked about the body bug story just recently on one of the ones we recorded. And that was a very pivotal point for me, just realizing what a dramatic difference my weekdays and weekends were. Just being conscious of that makes, has forever changed the way I eat on the weekend. Like, I still go to those ball games and enjoy that. I still enjoy the wife's cake. You know, I still do those things because I'm with you, Sal. I, the social aspect is so important to me. But I'm at least aware of like, oh, I can't eat the same way I do on Tuesday and have the cake on Saturday. If I definitely, especially if I slept in, I didn't go for a hike and I didn't train. But if I, and so the way I look at it is like, okay, if I want to eat that way on Saturday, Sunday, it's not too much to ask myself, hey, let's make sure that the workout that I was gonna do on Thursday, I'm gonna make sure I do that Saturday morning and get that in before I have that day. And that can be, I mean, that could be a huge shift in how fit you maintain by just making those habits. But I do think that, you know, struggling with this emotionally and mentally, oh, why can't I do it on the weekend? Oh, the weekend, that can also make it worse because in the weekend comes and you're like, oh, release and you do this escape type of thing. And it creates more of a swing rather than kind of being accepting of it. But I enjoy it with my family. Well, that's why I think there's a blend. Punishing it. That's why I think there's a blend there, right? I think there's a, I'm not gonna say no, I'm not gonna have the thing with my wife. I'm just gonna say, hey, now that I'm aware of how dramatic, because that was my problem was, I didn't, I was not aware. You're aware, you can plan better. That's right. And I think that's really it. It's just like, now I have focus that this happens on the weekend. So let me like get ahead of that and make sure I have things like to keep me active and busy and all these things. Cause then my behaviors will change the result, right? Our next caller is Amy from Ohio. Hi Amy, how can we help you? Hey guys, I've been following you guys for a really long time, probably since like 2017, only been the past year where I've been really trying to dig down into getting back in shape. You guys said something back a long time ago about fixing what got you there. So I've been working on that over the past year. I'm 57 years old. I'm 217 pounds now down from 230 over the past year. I've been doing anabolic and starter off and on really over the past six months really stuck into anabolic really well and figured I needed to switch programs. I've done suspension in the past and it was okay, but I really liked the weightlifting. I'm not very sports, like I don't do a whole lot of sports weightlifting has always been kind of my go-to. So I kind of liked it, but I got COVID and it really brought to mind how bad my mobility is. So I thought, well, maybe I would do maps performance because that's the next program. And I know it's very mobility minded, but I'm having a really hard time with the mobility sessions and trying to figure out like how I could do those from home because I haven't gone back to the gym recently, how to get into the best form. I just, I really struggled with it. So I was thinking about trying to find a way to do maps prime pro in place of the mobility sessions in the performance. And I'm not quite sure how to program that. I don't know if I should do like, I know all of my areas are weak so I didn't do the compass. So I don't know if I should just take a couple of exercises from each one of the areas and do those on the mobility days four times a week or should I program a different set of exercises four times a week and add those into the performance mobility sessions. And I'm just not sure how to program. Have you gone through the webinars, the one that Adam did specifically with the prime pro? How did that go for you? It actually went better than I thought it would. The shoulder one really, I think I struggle with the most. The combat stretch I do good with that and the 90-90 I do good. But I think my shoulders were probably the worst out of all of them. I would follow that, I would literally, I mean, can you do that in your living room? And I pretty much, I'm going head to toe on you. I think I hit some of the most problematic areas for most people. Those are some of my favorite movements from prime pro that I love. And instead of over complicating the process for you as far as how to program it in there, just follow that. I think you'll get tremendous benefit from trying to just progress and get better and better at that. The more you do with that, the better you're going to feel. And so just plug that in. If anything, I would say just that in between your maps performance to replace for the mobility sessions. I love that idea. And then I would just add the wall press because of the shoulder issues from just prime. So that other webinar, I mean, I go through that one as well with Doug against the wall. And just to constantly, this is a constant thing. So as much as you can think about it even throughout your day at work or finding yourself a wall or something to do to kind of try and reiterate that type of mobility, it's all about teaching your body that consistency. Like we need to figure this out to regain this range of motion and function again. So the more times you can find yourself doing it, the better. Yeah, Amy, your question about programming would look something like this, okay? I would pick four or five movements from Prime Pro and I would do them consistently for five to six weeks. And then you could probably change to some new movements. But you wanna stick with the ones that you're doing because originally you had said, do I change them up each time? Like what does that look like? Just like with strength training, you wanna do your core lifts and get really good at them before changing into doing something else. Otherwise you never really get past that learning curve, that hump where you can really reap the benefit. So whatever you pick to do, do that for like six weeks or eight weeks until you feel really good with them. And then you can move to something a little bit different and then stick to that for a little while. That's a great way to program mobility work on your own. We're seeking a different adaptation when we talk about mobility versus like building strength, building muscle, losing body fat. It's different, it's a different. So I don't remember the total amount of movements we have in Prime Pro, but I believe it's over 50, right? It's quite a few. Might even be more. I literally use four, the same four all the time. Like that's, I do not rotate through all of those. We did that for a variety for people and that way some people will notice that oh, this one really helps me out a lot. So that's good. It's good to have a nice variety for everybody. And we can address very specific joints issues and things that way, but for you just the broad strokes are gonna be better. Yes. So I mean, and that's what I mean by telling you that is like I stick to the same four that I feel the best from. When I do my combat stretch, I notice a huge difference in my ankle mobility and my depth of my squat. When I do my 90 90s, it totally eliminates the bursitis that I had in my hips and makes me get down in my, I feel great. When I do the handcuff with rotation or the wall press that Justin's talking about, oh man, my posture is so much better. Like, so instead of like trying all the different ones and overcomplicating those help me the most and I can continue to just improve. I can never do enough of them. So I'm always just trying to do those. So hopefully that helps. By the way, I love that you love strength training. I mean, I think that's a good, that's a plus. And congratulations on the weight loss this year. That's phenomenal. Yes. Thank you. Now with the programming, the only thing I worry about is is that the ones that I'm good at and I feel they're easy, I feel like it's kind of a cop out. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I should be doing the ones that are harder in order to get better at the ones that are harder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, good to, yeah, that's a good point. That's a very good point. Yeah, if you're doing it and you do it easily, like let's say then, okay, let's do the 90, 90. For example, you did say you liked the 90, the 90, 90 sound like it was, if you do the 90, 90 and you can elevate your heel off the floor on both sides, say six inches plus, no problem, you're probably good there. But if you're not, if like, what I would be looking for as a coach, especially with 90, 90 is your right side, you can get off the ground three to four inches or whatever it is, but then the other side, you can't. There's, that tells me there's a huge discrepancy from left to right. That'll normally cause a lot of pain up the kinetic chain of somebody's body. So then I really want balance. So when you're doing some of these movements, especially when they're left to right movements, the ones that should stand out to you are the ones that are like, oh wow, this shoulder movement on the left side I can do, but the right side, I'm all fucked up. There's a flag right there that, oh, you really need to address that. But if you get down on the 90, 90 and you lift the heels up on both sides and it's pretty equal and you feel pretty good there, that may not be a focus for you. Drop that and move to the one that you're right, that you're having a hard time with, that's gonna make a bigger difference. Okay, cool. All right, excellent. So, and by the way, for people who are listening, the two webinars are primeprowebinar.com and mapsprimewebinar.com. So thanks for calling in, Amy. We appreciate your support. Love you guys. Thanks. Thank you. I love hearing from listeners in that age group who are working out and following our lives. Especially if they've been listening to us. They love lifting weights. Especially if they've been listening to us since 2017, dude. That's so great. That's so great. She's gotta have a cool-ass personality. I know. If you stuck her out of there. If you're 57. Yeah, so she was in her fifties when she found us. If you were in your fifties and you found us and you hung on, you're my people. Yeah, yeah. We weren't our best back then. But you know, when it's true, when you do, same rules with strength training apply with mobility. In other words, you do an exercise and you practice it often and you get good at it before moving and trying something different. And that's the same thing with, you know, these mobility movements or correctional movements is you want to get good at it. When you're really good at it and you master it and then maybe try something a little bit more challenging. Yeah, and it's cool. Yeah, it's that she noticed that intuitively. It's like, yeah, you want to focus on the ones that are most problematic. And that's really what the compass tests are there to highlight is like, you know, the most restriction and the hardest time you have with some of these movements. Like let's really focus in on that and present that throughout your day as much as possible. The only reason why I don't like comparing it to strength training and the adaptation process there is because most likely if you find, you know, say three or four of these exercises you're really bad at, you're probably going to spend most of your life in those. Just real talk. You're not going to move out. Unless you're a mobility guru person who love, like that's what they do. Well, I mean, I'm just squatting the rest of my life. I mean, there's fundamental movements that you'll find for yourself and you're right. You'll stick to them for a long time. Yeah. And to me, there's not, you don't, even though we provided all those different mobility drills for people, unless like you came in and you're like, you wanted variety and you want to expand and you want to keep doing more. But to be honest, I have struggled most of my career to get my clients to do three or four of these that will help them the most and just be. And you don't want to overwhelm or confuse them. Yes. I want them to adhere to something that works. And so, yeah, some of those main movements, it's just, it covers the basis. Totally. Our next caller is Tanner from Indiana. Tanner, what's happening, man? How can we help you? What is going on guys? What's happening? This is like a literal dream come true. But I guess I'll give a little bit of backstory, but I have a question that in regards to fitness burnout. I figured this might be the right place. All right. Okay, let's go. Okay. So a little bit of backstory. I played baseball in college, kind of the stereotypical power cleans, three days a week, full body, high pulls, that sort of stuff, lots of legs. Got done with college, went to medical school, backed off for about a year because I had literally no life. And then I started to apply fitness as far as learning anatomy, physiology, all of that. And one of my teammates, who was the guy that practiced like nine days a week, recommended you guys back in like 2015, I think. I think it was right when you started. I didn't, it wasn't like episode one start, but you guys blew me away. And then I really started to dive into it. And you got me into starting, I started to check out, you know, different YouTubers, not sure if I should name them. But anyway, you guys really started my fitness journey, we'll say. So I hit it pretty hard for, let's say, four or five years. And now that medical school is over, the pandemic is essentially over. I have a steady job, steady girlfriend. You know, there's not a whole lot of stress for that relief. And I'm really kind of struggling with, I thought I had intrinsic motivation, but maybe it was a lot more extrinsic. And I kind of just, I don't want to say this in sound, I don't know, I don't want to say arrogant, but I've just kind of ran out of unknowns. I've tried all the different splits. I've really got into fasting. I loved when sound like dove into that a while ago. Dr. Gawraw got his book, trying to smooth these out because I've been fasting for so long, worked on mobility because you guys used to hit on that so hard. So yeah, I don't know, you know, I'm pretty injury-free, pretty healthy, but as far as just that drive to lift, I'm trying to find it again. And you got my girlfriend lifting and listening to you guys. So anyway, huge, huge thank you for that. That's unbelievable. She's like, almost as strong as me. I was just going to say, don't let it get stronger than you, bro. There's some motivation right there. She starts out deadlifting you squad, you bro. Get your ass to the gym. I'm gonna turn to that. I don't know. You know, yeah, why actually, oh, sorry, go ahead. No, no, no, go ahead if you have more, go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say, yeah, I got a during the pandemic, I will right near the end of it. There was a lot of people that actually found out they didn't want to home gym. So now I have my own home gym and I got it super cheap. So getting into the gym is not an issue anymore. I'll say that I don't have that excuse. So a couple takeaways I get here. One, if you listen to Mind Pump, you'll pass medical school and find a girlfriend. And be very content with life. So other people to kind of understand this. What do you do right now, by the way? You went to medical school, what do you do for work? Well, the pandemic delayed me passing my board exams for over a year and a half. And in that time, I basically, I wanted to seek other options. So I didn't necessarily like the way the healthcare system dealt with it. I mean, that's, I don't want to dive into that. And pharmaceutical companies, we all have our opinions. So I actually work for a pharmaceutical manufacturing company. And as far as what I can say, I just make sure clients are happy and the FDA is happy. And it's really nice. It's like steady hours, complete opposite of medicine and really great schedule and amazing company. And you make a lot of money. All right, so, okay, here's the bane. Here's the bane of highly intelligent, challenge-driven individuals. Okay, so it's great when you got challenges in front of you and you want to tackle things and you grind and you push yourself and that's what gets you going. But you fell in love with that feeling. And the problem now is how do you settle into a nice balanced life because it feels boring, right? How do you settle into that? That's a big challenge, Tanner. So you're gonna have to work on loving what you're doing now and falling in love with the present. Also, if you continue to be in love with the challenge, you're gonna eventually hurt yourself and burn yourself out and you'll find yourself always seeking, always looking for something. So without getting too esoteric here, I think a spiritual practice may help you out. I really do because those are the questions that are answered with those type of practices. Now you can go the God route, that's great. I did that. Or you could do the more stoicism as a great philosophy that you can look into. But I think that's what's gonna help you out with this situation because it sounds to me like you've gotten everything that you wanted and now you're not sure, like, okay, I got everything. How do I keep myself going? How do I keep myself pushing now that I kind of got everything that I want? That's a more of a spiritual question than anything. Are you exercising at all now? Yeah, I mean, like I said, I did, I mean, in the email, I went down like this whole slew of workouts. I even did like stuff like the Colorado experiment, which I'm sure you guys are, it's kind of crazy. Oh, it was amazing. It actually, it was pretty awesome for me personally. I guess I'm like the stereotypical hard gainer. I'm 32, but I hit puberty when I was like 29. So it was one of those things where, you know, I don't know, eventually the process just took over and I actually started to gain muscle. And I'm to the point to where I'm like, yeah, it'd be nice to look like those little insta posts that Sal posts every now and then. But I mean, I have mobility. I can still sprint. I can throw harder than I did when I was in college. If I injure myself, I'm pretty good at fixing it. But that's actually really fun, by the way. Fixing yourself after never model. Anyway, but no, it's not like I hate fitness. I know that it's a process now. So like I went down all of like in a recent podcast, you guys talked about HMB. I love digging into the old, like the old fitness information and finding things. I take creatine every day. I got my mom taking creatine every day because Alzheimer's runs in my family. I tell everyone about you guys. Like I love finding out new things about it and it's just hard to get excited about it now because I- That's it right there, dude. That's it right there. That's gonna be your challenge. Your challenge is how are you gonna settle, have a family, enjoy a normal life when you fell in love with the grind and the challenge and the unknown, you're gonna have to figure that out. And I really do think a spiritual practice will help with that. You gotta be careful, too. You know what happens to people in your situation? You self-sabotage. Yeah, you create challenges when they don't need to be there. When people like you are str- Cause at least what I'm hearing- A lot of successful people do that. Yeah, what I'm hearing right now is life is pretty fucking good for you. And you're a pretty damn fit. You work out. There's not a lot that has to change around that. And don't compare yourself to Sal. First of all, he doesn't look that big in real life. So don't take the bathroom pics and really try and compare yourself to that. A lot of Photoshop, going on filters. A lot of Photoshop. You're never gonna take away my bathroom pics of Sal. See, never. Never. So yeah, so maybe you're finding yourself, we're joking about Sal, but maybe find yourself scrolling and comparing yourself to these other people and think, oh, maybe I should do that or not. But sounds like you got a pretty good life going for you right now. But yet you feel like you need to be so challenged. It's like, why? And what happens to people like that, if they don't find purpose or they don't do like a spiritual practice, is they tend to self-sabotage and you create some sort of drama or hurdle in your life. So you have to overcome it. And it's a pattern. By the way, many people get caught in this and they never grow out of it. They're in their 50s and 60s and they still do this. Dude, how many clients did we get like that? They have to sign up for a marathon. They have to sign up for triathlon. They have to quit their job. I don't like to run. I don't like to run. Well, you, but the point is it's a burnout cycle. And it's not always fitness related. You may self-sabotage your relationship. You may self-sabotage something to do with your work, but you're looking for that struggle because a lot of people, they can't accept that life is so good and things are going so well for you and celebrate the present. And that's where the spiritual practice, the stoicism, all that. To journaling. That's right. That will help you to be very grateful for where you're currently at and that, hey, it's okay to be here and present and not always focused on what you need to be doing. Otherwise, what will eventually happen is if you can't find it, you will self-sabotage and then you'll just keep falling in that cycle. Tanner, because of your age and because your background is in science and the medical community, I'm sure when I say spiritual practice, you're probably trying not to hurt my feelings, but you want to roll your eyes real hard. No, I'm a non-denominational Christian MD. That went along really well. But no, the spiritual side, the being grateful, you know, counting your blessings, I'm from like a super small town in Indiana. So I grew up with that route. So it's by no means am I a huge complainer or anything like that. It's just I used to lace up my chucks, have my pre-workout. I was in Miami for medical school. So I was like, you know, all these guys are clearly on gear, but I'm gonna make an effort, you know? But it's now I'm back in Indiana, like the, I don't know. I don't think you're a complainer at all. I don't think you're a complainer. I don't think you're, I definitely don't think you're a loser. I think what it is is you have, look, we all have these buckets that we need to fill and the spiritual bucket can't be filled with fitness or challenge or money. It has, so that's the direction that I would say look and maybe, you know, you understand the value, you grew up with it, but I would look there for some of your answers and you'll probably find them there. Now, as far as fitness is concerned, you're an information junkie. You love learning new things. So if you want more inspiration, I would say look to the past. Look at the workouts of old strong men. Look at, you know, non-conventional training. It's always exciting to do shit like that. Kettlebells and Indian clubs and, you know, look at the way Eugene Sandow worked out. Look at the way John Grimmick worked out. Look at the way the Soviets worked out, you know? If you like that kind of stuff, if you really want to experiment, you know, you could try instead of one one hour workout, try three 20 minute workouts in the day. See how that works, you know, those all day workouts. Like experiment with that kind of stuff. I get that, by the way, I can identify with that. I love that kind of stuff myself. Have some fun with it, but be careful because you're constantly chasing that. You'll never find it. You'll never get it. You'll never get what you want because it's always, it's elusive and you're not really gonna satisfy yourself through that. Just go. Yeah, I guess not to take it up forever, but I know you guys talk about our gainers a lot, stuff like that. And Sal talked about how much, he likes to talk about how much he used to lift and how skinny he was. And I was like, that's me, man, I'm just not Italian. But like, I found what worked for me, you know, full body splits, lower reps. I mean, fairly high intensity, and it just, it started to work. And so now whenever I try other workouts, it kind of goes back to the old burnout thing. I'm like, I know I've tried these before and I know this didn't work as well as the other things do. And sometimes, you know, I'll suck it up and do super high reps. Like my girlfriend and I did my abs performance, which was, it was great, but it was brutal. And like, I just, in the back of my mind, I'm like, I always like to do what's. I got, I got a book for you. I got a book for you, Tanner. Have you read dinosaur training? Oh yeah, dinosaur training is great. All right. You'll love dinosaur training, old school. Yeah. And based on what you're saying, you'll respond great to it. Get yourself dinosaur training, old book, real fun. There's old strength training advice in there. It's actually one of the things that influenced me to create maps on a ball. Go check it out. No, that would be awesome. And before you guys go, I told my girlfriend I would say this, I know three is an odd number. So if you guys ever need another friend, I'm like, first one to sign up on that list. If there is ever a friend, do you guys ever have a friend list? Like I just, I just, I just want to know, put my name in the suggestion box. I feel like we want to become a quad. Yeah, no problem. And if you ever want to, if you ever want somebody to try out new samples of new pharmaceuticals, you can go ahead and send those over to us. We'll give them a try. Well, I'm not even allowed to tell people what we make. So anyway, but yeah, yeah, sure. I'll, I'll, you know. Well, hopefully, hopefully, Tanner, we see you at one of our next live events. We're going to start getting back into the live events. And so hopefully we cross pass in person. So appreciate you following us, man. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you guys so much for having me. Take it easy. All right, man. You know what this reminds me of? So I'm going to, I'm going to put my friend on blast. So Lane Norton, great guy, I love him, very honest, lots of integrity, rubs people the wrong way. You could tell that he has to constantly have an enemy to make himself feel motivated. And it's that cycle. It's a fuel thing. Yes. And so he does that. And I get it. I understand what that comes from. But if you don't figure that out at some point, oh, you're not going to be in a good position. And that's kind of what I'm getting from, from Tanner. You know, he's, he's happy, he's content. And he misses the old challenge and drive and grind. So I didn't want to say this to him because I don't know his situation or whatever, but dude, have a kid. Yeah, there's your challenge right there. That's a humongous challenge. That's a good point. You want some challenge guys? Just sounds like, hey man. I wish you would have said that. You, what you should have said is like, Hey bro, you're, what did he say? He's 32? Yeah. Yeah. You'll have some babies bro. You're 32 right now. Enjoy the next four or five years of no kid. Cause you're, when you have one, fucking you're never old. Your world is about all you right now. That's why he's boring. Yeah. Wait till it's not. Yeah. Hey, the next call will be, Hey guys, I have kids. You know, you have any advice for how I can like just relax and have like a crazy challenge. Enjoy that. You know what? We go through all these different seasons of life, but I do, I do sense that in his voice and the, you know, I was waiting for this like, oh, I'm not progressing or I'm not working out. I thought he was originally asking, but the guy's still working out. He's working out. We can see him. He's in good shape, you know? And he's got a lot of good things going from him. It's like, you got to be careful because what ends up happening is eventually he will create the drama in his life to overcome because he needs that. And I mean, it's to your point with, with Lane, I absolutely love Lane, but sometimes I feel like he creates that adversary. So he has something to overcome all the time. It's like, just if you would relax, your life would be a lot less stressful. I promise, man. If you like our information, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Adam. And you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump, Sal. The rules that apply to somebody who is going from a man who's going from 20% body fat to 15%. The rules that apply to that person are the same as the rules that go from 10% to 5%. The difference is everything that we talked about.