 Hey everybody, today we are debating which is a greater national security threat to the United States, Islam or white nationalism, and we are starting right now. Ladies and gentlemen, thrilled to have you here for another epic debate. As today we are, as mentioned, debating which is a greater threat right white nationalism or Islam. And also, folks, want to let you know if it's your first time here, consider hitting that subscribe button as we've got a lot more debates coming up that we are excited about. As an example, you'll see on the bottom right of your screen, you will see that vash and destiny will be meeting in person next month and we'll be hosting that. So that's going to be a lot of fun as they hash out some issues. Also though, want to let you know, folks, our guests, we're very thankful to have them and I have linked them in the description. So if you're listening and you are enjoying what you hear, feel free, I have put those links down in the description box conveniently for you so that you can hear more from each of these gentlemen. So with that, we are going to get started quickly. Want to let you know that it's going to be like loose, kind of like three to five minutes from each side, followed by, in terms of giving their opening position or statement, followed by open conversation and then our good old Q&A. So feel free, if you have a question, to shoot that question into the live chat. If you tag me with an at modern day debate, it'll make it easier for me to not miss it. We'll ask those questions at the end and you also have the chance, if you want, it's an option to do super chat, which will basically push your question to the top of the Q&A list and it also allows you to make a comment towards one of the debaters that they of course would get a chance to respond to. As always, we ask that you be your regular friendly selves during the Q&A and those super chats. So thanks so much for being here everybody and thanks so much again, I, Hippocrite and Jengles for joining us today. Good to be here. Pleasure. Absolutely. So, which one of you would like to start on this wild topic today? I could be my opener first, it might make more sense just because there's no real arguments in it, so there's nothing really to respond to. You bet. The floor is all yours, setting the timer and ready for you. Thanks so much. All right, for my opener, I just was going to explain how we got to this debate, which is that every year there is an ADL report that comes out about extremist violence in the United States. The last one that came out, which is still the 2018 one, as far as I know, did a lot of media coverage because they made the claim that all extremist violence in 2018 was done by right-wingers. Now the problem with the ADL report is that they use a really flawed methodology, but even worse than that, they don't even apply the methodology properly. So it's just a really bad report and it's not something you would want to use if you wanted to get a sense of where the real extremist violence is coming from and what's happening in the United States. Now I was tweeting that to somebody explaining that I've gone through the ADL reports and found it bad and James, is it James? I can't, Jengles? Yeah, James. James here, or is it Justin? I can't. Sorry, no, I'm joking, he's James, sorry. Oh, I'm sorry, sorry, so okay, so Justin quote tweeted me and kind of laughed at my claim that the ADL report was bad, which led to me asking if he wanted to do a debate about that. He asked me if instead I would want to debate whether or not white nationalism is a threat. Now look, through all of modern history, every year there are terror attacks in America, there's right-wing terror attacks, left-wing terror attacks, and Islamic terror attacks. So I'm not going to sit here and pretend like there's no right-wing threat of violence, that would be asinine and stupid, we know that this happens. So I declined to take that topic, but instead I said, hey, do you want to debate whether or not Islam is a bigger terror threat or violence threat in America? Security threat was taken for the termites. And he agreed to that, which is kind of shocking because it's on the same level of indefensibility. If you do a cursory examination of this topic with just a little bit of academic rigor and intellectual honesty, you're going to find that to try to claim that the right-wingers are killing more people in America than the Muslims are, the radical Muslims, is crazy. It's indefensible. But he said yes out of what I can only assume is the typical leftist narcissistic hubris thinking that they can reshape reality through sheer sophistry and rhetoric. But I have all the data here. I have all the experts on my side. It doesn't matter how you cut it up. The answer always comes out the same. So when I lay this all out, you're going to see that this is a black and white issue as simple as asking yourself whether or not 20 is a bigger number than 10. And when we reach that point in the debate, Justin's going to have the option of doing some self-reflection and admitting that he was wrong on this and have to take the L or he'll continue to double down in hypocrisy and denial. Now, I'd be happy to be proven wrong on this, but I predict that he is just going to continue with the denial. So when we get to that point in the debate, I just want you guys to remember that I predicted it here at the beginning. And that's all I had to say. They won't remember because I have the ability to reshape reality. That's yeah, we'll see about that. Thank you. That's all I had to say. I yield the rest of my time. Thank you very much for that opening. And now we'll switch it over to Django Science Lad for his opening as well. Thanks for being here. Thank you. All right. So I actually wrote mine down. So it's going to be a lot less engaging, but hopefully it's true. On February 5th of this year, FBI Director Christopher Wray announced that the organization has elevated its assessment of the threat posed by racially motivated violent extremists, the majority of which are fueled by some type of white supremacy, placing them on the same footing as threats posed to the country by foreign terrorist organizations. According to the Department of Homeland Security, domestic terrorists have caused more deaths in the United States in recent years than have terrorists connected to foreign organizations. While a database compiled by the Investigator Fund at the Nation Institute has far right plots and attacks outnumbering Islamist incidents by almost two to one. Despite this, a brand center for justice analysis of grants to counter counter violent extremism awarded by Trump's DHS. Now, the eighty five percent of explicitly eighty five percent of those grants explicitly targeted minority. This gross imbalance in the way of the U.S. confronts terrorism institutionally goes back decades with a threat of white supremacy continuously ignored in favor of over policing black and brown. A two thousand nine report, a warning that economic dislocation and the election of a black president could fuel right wing extremism faced fierce political backlash and recognition that may have led to training for local police departments to better identify and court the current rise in white nationalist violence was instead drawn. And in the age of the Internet, the time between radicalization and mobilization to violence has been compressed. The DHS strategic framework for countering terrorism and targeted violence specifically calls out the spreading of ethnic replacement conspiracy theories on social media sites as a key driving force in several white supremacists. We live in an age of online radicalization. A terrorist doesn't need to be recruited by an organization anymore. They can just spend too much time on Twitter being convinced that the Jews are trying to breed out the white race because a Google search showed a black man with a white woman. But if an organization is trying to recruit within the U.S., which is far more likely to result in a successful attack than trying to get through a thousand different barriers to travel here from abroad, which ideology has the larger pool of disaffected young people to choose from? White nationalism, which in this debate means the desire for white people to maintain social and political dominance in the United States dwarfs the threat of radical Islam, because unlike the latter, the former is baked into our national consciousness. But simply white nationalism has roots and numbers for Islam does not. One does not have to be a card carrying member of the KKK to favor policies and opinions that further the goals of white nationalism. According to a book called White Identity Politics by Ashley Jardina, 30 to 40 percent of the white American population possesses a strong racial identity and they're much more likely to be angry and fearful of the ongoing demographic demographic changes our country is experiencing, as well as more likely to do politics, to view politics as a zero sum game with strides being made by minority groups coming at the expense of their own power and place in society. This fear is easily exploitable by politicians who can make racial appeals and not only take advantage of hostility whites have towards racial minorities, but also their desire to protect and preserve their roots. Power from George Wallace to Ronald Reagan to Pat Buchanan and not to Donald Trump. The threat of white nationalism is not limited to domestic terrorism, although it is a major threat there. The larger threat is to the ethos of a country whose mission of freedom and equality is supported by people who seek to maintain historic racial hierarchy. That's my time. You bet. Thanks very much. We will now move into the open discussion section. Just want to let you know, by the way, folks, any topic, because I know this is this is probably our most controversial topic we've ever hosted. We are more than willing. If someone ever in the future wants to do like what's more dangerous Christianity or white nationalism or, you know, you name it, we are all about equality. We are willing to offend everyone equally. So please, it's OK. We really are willing to host any topic like that. So it's we're not trying to pick on any particular group. So with that, we are going to go into open discussion. Thanks so much, gentlemen, for being here. The floor is all yours. Excellent. So since I just finished, you want to kind of like respond to what I was saying? Yeah, I mean, that was a bit of a gish glop, which I don't really know if there's a lot of value in throwing out 87 points when you can't really respond to them one by one. But let's just try. Let's start with the FBI thing. You mentioned that on February 5th. This is like a couple of weeks ago. Christopher Wren, is that his name? The director of the FBI? Yeah, Ray, that's right. He upgraded the racially motivated violence to the same level as ISIS. Right. Now, do you think that the FBI is a good source for who we should be looking to what the terror threat is? They certainly had their problems in the past, but the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI both are elevated white supremacy and white nationalism, like basically extreme right wing organizations on par with organizations like ISIS. And if anything, there's a history of them downplaying that white supremacist threat in the past. So kind of, yeah. I mean, when we're talking about national security, I kind of, for all their faults, I do kind of default to our national security organizations to, you know, explain who is the threat despite their problems. I don't know who else. I mean, I feel similarly about it because who else would you look to to get to do the proper assessment of the threat? Right. Who would be better than the FBI or the Department of Homeland Security? I can't answer, right? No, no, I can't think of anybody who would be who would be better than than those organizations. But the reason I wanted to ask first is because so, first of all, Christopher Ray in July of 2019 said that homegrown terrorism is the number one threat to national security, which is, of course, jihadi terrorism. Well, what? Huh? Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. Are you not aware of this one? So I'll say that again. Yeah. So in July of 2019, they did the same thing that they did in February, which is a congressional hearing of the FBI. And the same guy, Christopher Ray, said that actually, I wrote down the quote here. Let me put it in his exact words. I think the greatest terrorist threat to the homeland is homegrown violent extremists, which is jihadi-inspired violence. One second, right here. Pretty much debate over. My mic was echoing. I had to switch out. Hopefully you're at. Hopefully. Sounds clear to me. Yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I agree with that. He said that. Okay. Oh, but then again, you know, a couple of months later, he still put it on the same level. He put it by nationalism and radicalism on the same level. And also, I'm really curious to know, can you give me the link to that? Because I want to know if he was talking specifically about like, what was your reference in there? I have, so I have the audio I can play for you guys if you want. With that, with that work, we can just listen to it in his own words. It's about a two minute clip. You sure you don't have it like a transcript of it or something? Well, I only transcribed that part. It's a YouTube video, so. So it's not like reported anywhere? Well, no, of course it is. But the reporting, it's hilarious, the reported. They just, so he, in that same hearing, he said that the majority of domestic arrests were some form of white supremacy. Maybe you, maybe you saw that part. So the reporting was all, oh, he said that the majority of domestic terror arrests are falling under some category of white supremacy. And all the media ran with that. And it's not even that they buried the part about homegrown terrorists being the biggest threat, but they, they just omitted it from a lot of the reporting. Well, I've read a lot of these reports. And like, they do definitely talk about like the hottest extremism as being a threat. But like, so for example, I'm reading the Department of Homeland Security, strategic framework for countering terror, terrorism and targeted violence. In this report, they do talk about you ought to eat trimism, but almost all of it is overseas. That's where the real threat of like, it's only between us and his United States is not here. No, no, no. I'm sorry. You're totally, you're totally confused about what's going on here. So let me explain the categories that the FBI uses. And I have, I have like sound clips to play for you. If you really don't believe me on this. I'd really rather have like transcripts and like, like, I have like PDFs of actual reports. It's it's, it's, so it's congressional hearings. I didn't have time to transcribe the four hour congressional hearing. I watched it and I clipped the audio of the relevant parts. So I, so you have international terrorism. This is Islamism from groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, maybe the Taliban and others. Then you have homegrown terrorism. This is Americans living in America who are radicalized by Islamist groups. So you have international terrorism. This is Islamism from groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, maybe the Taliban and others. This is Islamism from groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, maybe the Taliban and others who are radicalized by Islamic propaganda and do Islamic terror attacks in America. I mean, if that's how you define like. That's how the terrorism. That is how the FBI defines homegrown terrorism. Okay. If you define terrorism to be exclusively jihadist, of course you're going to have. No, listen, listen. Homegrown terrorism is exclusively jihadist. I don't understand the terms that we're talking about. If the term is homegrown terrorism is exclusively jihadist. I'm not understand what point you think you're trying to make here. So, so I'm going to finish giving you the categories that I'm going to play the clip. Okay. So homegrown terrorism is exclusively jihadist who are in America, radicalized by Islamic extremism. Then you have domestic terrorism, which is a separate category. Sure. This is right. So this under domestic terrorism is where you find all basically all of the non Islamic forms of terrorism, whether it's left wing or right wing. This is how the FBI does it. So within that umbrella of domestic terrorism, there is a category called racially motivated violence. Yes. More than that. Yeah. Inside of the category of racially motivated violence is where you're going to find your white rationalism. Yeah. And your black identity extremist, et cetera. Exactly. I have that exact report you're talking about in front of me. Okay. So here's how the FBI ranks it. Islamic. Sorry. Homegrown terrorists are at the top. They're the number one threat. Then you have the domestic, the domestic terrorists and the international terrorists, which is on the same threat. You said earlier that the real threat is like ISIS and that they've actually been lowered. And the, and the whites or the racially motivated. Well, you said international. You said that that's where the threat to the United States come from is international. But right. I'm saying like, when you're talking about like Islam, extremism and Judaism, the vast majority of the threat is over. Yeah, that's wrong. It's not. No, it's wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. Okay. So, so this is how it's ranked at the top. You have a homegrown, homegrown terrorist. Then you have on the same level below that. Domestic terrorism and international terrorism inside of the domestic terrorism, you have the racially motivated and then a portion of those are like the white nationalist. So the homegrown jihadis are way up here and the white nationalists are down here according to the FBI. Why did the stats not match that? They do. They don't. They don't. So you look at the violence by any report, not just by the ADL, which you just have kind of dismissed without telling us why. Oh, wait. I mean, you did tell us why, but it was a really weak sense as to why the ADL reports should be like this. They also measure like Islam as well. The number of attacks and are like far outweigh, like from right-wing extremists, especially white supremacists, they've outranked. They've been far more numerous than like radical Islamic attacks. And again, it's not the threat level is not just violence and like terrorism. It's also like, I'm sure you would agree that part of the threat of a radical Islamic terrorist is the support they get from their community. And that's where they're going to take a lot of root. That's where they're going to get a lot of support that like fuels their terrorism. That kind of support in the United States is not there for jihad. It's like it is for white nationalists. So first of all, you're wrong. Second of all, I'm worried about violence. I'm worried about innocent people getting killed. I don't know what kind of vegs. I don't know what's why I'm supposed to be scared of support. I'm worried about people. Innocent people getting killed. That's what I'm worried about. What are you worried about? Exactly. I'm worried. Okay. Good. So, so that's what we're talking about. Second of all, as far as the actual numbers are concerned, the best terror database that I found, the one who categorizes them correctly is a website called Johnstone Archive.net. And this guy, have you seen this one? I'm really curious as to why you know that's the best. Because I've looked at them all and I've seen how they categorize them the most accurately. Right. So. Just to give you the numbers. I went through from starting from 2014 to present and I counted the number of Islamic terror attacks, right wing terror attacks and left wing terror attacks. Here's what the results are. So for right wing terror attacks, there was nine attacks on American soil from January 1st, 2014 to present. They resulted in 56 people killed and 64 injured. In that same time period, there was 20 Islamic terror attacks, which resulted in 105 people killed and 182 injured. So that's what I'm worried about. And I also did left wing, even though it's off topic, but I thought people would be interested in that same time. There was seven left wing terror attacks, which resulted in 19 people killed and 25 injured. So the numbers do actually bear it out. Now, before we go into talking about the attacks and arguing over the numbers, I think it's really important that we hash out that the FBI, considers, according to their own words, homegrown violent extremists to be the greatest threat, which is Jihadi violence, because you agreed that they were the, in the best position to do the threat assessment. Yeah. And their more recent statement was that racial, was that most recent statement was that the white supremacist violence and like far right of tax are on par with ISIS on our, on par with that. Right. Isis is a, right. Isis is a, first of all, a different category than homegrown extremists. Seven out of the eight radical, like Giannis attacks in the past couple of years have been like inspired by Isis. Yeah. But those are, they're no, they're homegrown extremists. They're an Isis attack would have to be like an actual, like nine 11 style event or something like that. So that, the propaganda comes from organizations like Isis and Al Qaeda, the people who carry out the attacks are homegrown extremists for the most part. So, but just to be clear. So you're, you're on board with the definition of homegrown extremism. Right. I don't have to play that clip for you. I've mostly been focused on like the Department of Homeland Security and their definitions. But I, I guess I'm on board with that, but also it, these are just definitions. We're talking about which one is the greater security threat to the United States. I'll just read the quote one more time. I think the greatest terrorist threat to the homeland is homegrown violent extremists, which is jihadi inspired violence. That's from seven months ago. That's not an ancient quote. Now, much more recent one is not that. Yeah. But I keep, I keep explaining what the more recent one means to you. And you don't seem to understand that it doesn't refute this. It doesn't, it doesn't overwrite this because it's two different things. Now I want to put, I have some numbers here to give you a little more context. Yeah. Yeah. So this is again, from the FBI reports. So in the July, I think the most recent one, the most recent one, the most recent one, the most recent one, the most recent one, the most recent one, the most recent one, the most recent one, the most recent one, the most recent one, the most recent one, the most recent one, the most recent one, the most recent one. In the July hearing, the same one where he said that the biggest threat is international terrorism. He is, he asserted that a majority of domestic terrorism cases we've investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence. That was the big headline that the media ran with. So he noted himself in a Washington post article, I have the link to the Washington post article, what he meant to say was that the majority of racially motivated extremists, killings were white supremacist. So not domestic total, but just that one subcategory of racially motivated. Now I have some more numbers to put that into context for you, which is that in 2019, he said that there was 850 active domestic terrorism, 40% of which are racially motivated. So to, let's say for the sake of argument that 80% of the racially motivated attacks are white supremacist. That's probably a high estimate. Like that's a very generous estimate. If you look at the hate crime stats and you also look at the fact that the FBI category, black identity extremist as higher than as a higher threat in a 2019 report against a very recent. That was very dumb. Well, maybe they know something we don't. So the FBI categorized black identity. That was a leaked report. This is not something that they released to the public. And two, all of the racially motivated, like this is as they used to cite white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists, 80% of the, of the racially motivated violence is white supremacy. That's, it's, I'm just a guessing that number. I'm pulling it out of my ass, but I feel like it's a very generous estimate. That would be 272 active investigations by the FBI. Okay. In the, now this is in the February hearing, the, the one from two weeks ago, he said that there are over a thousand active investigations into homegrown terrorists right now. Yeah. That's, yeah. So that's four times as many jihadis being actively investigated. Wait, are you assuming that the rest of them are all jihadis? No, no, homegrown means jihadi. Okay. We establish that. I can play the clip for you. I think we should listen to the clip. I think it would be good for everyone. It's only two minutes. All right. You know, some of that reason is because they are vastly more overpoliced than white people. 80, more than 80% of all of the funding, the grants, especially that the Trump administration has given. And like since 9 11, almost all of the grants given are policing communities of color are going into Muslim communities and policing them. So of course, they're going to catch more potential terrorists and they're going to miss a lot of white, this is the same kind of re re thinking you can rewrite reality with rhetoric and I just gave you a step. No, no, but listen, listen, here's the problem that I just gave you the terrorist attacks and how there's more Islamist attacks and more Islamist deaths. So if there's all these, there's all these white terrorists running free, you have way more white terrorists. You just lied to me. Okay. Department of Homeland Security. Since 2014, let me get my notes out of here. Since 2014, there have been eight people attacked from radical Islamists. Eight. Since 2014, since 2014, give me the like, this is the DHS, the treated framework for countering terrorism. I don't know if I can find it. Come on. Do they list the actual incidents? They say that there's more. There is a long report. They say that there's more. Now is it Department of Homeland Security going to lie? Okay, especially I think I lied to like make the like, I think I lied in favor of Islamic extremism. Well, no, I'm not saying they're going to lie, but they might be using a much stricter definition. They might use, they might be using ones where it's like met the like the legal threshold, right? Which whatever other thing you referenced earlier is not going to be using a strict definition like that, right? Did they say how many white nationalists that were in the same time period? They said it's one of the most potent forms. Well, that's really vague, isn't it? What are we supposed to do with that? Eight lethal attacks in the US since 2014. Is that a huge security threat to you? Neither. Both of these are like naked. Answer that question. Well, this is why specifically there's been eight. There's been more deaths causing from like domestic terrorism. Most of which were white supremacists. The vast majority of which were white supremacists. You're aware of that there was like a future. Dude, you're wrong. You're just wrong. This is what I mean. Denying reality. I'm literally quoting a DHS report. Right. Do they class? Tell me they at least classified the Orlando killing as a terrorist attack. Yes, they did. Okay. Cause that's more than like the two biggest white nationalists. Then you got San Bernardino on top of that. Is the size of the number of the attacks? Cause you're conflating those a lot, depending on which bunch of narrative that is. It's the size. It's the number. And it's also the thwarted attacks. Let's talk about the New Mexico compound where they found like a military style compound where five Muslims were training children to be school shooters in 20 UST. Instance by instance. And let's see who I can name more instances. I have a list of white supremacist violence from 2018 to 2019 in front of me. You want to go individually, instance by instance. Oh, you picked the last two years only. How convenient? That way convenient. Yeah. Cause the whole point. I got these individual instances. I want broad data. Cause we can list. From two, from only two years, huh? I could have gone longer. I could have gone longer. But you did it. Yeah, I didn't because they don't matter. I went from 2014. And so did I. You think two years is a good sample size for a question? No, I'm not. The entire purpose of getting these individual stories is they don't help us much. We need to get broad data. And what I'm going through is Department of Homeland Security is my main source here. There's also another source. Let's see. A worldwide threat assessment of the US intelligence community. So this one also says that white supremacist violence is on the rise. And specifically, let's see how out of this my nose. Where is it? Why am I so bad at finding things in my nose? Dude, you haven't provided anything substantial. You said the FBI was a good source. And now you're in denial. You're just rejecting what they said. No, I'm not. Well, first you're just telling me what they said. And you get, you have a clip. I will listen to that clip later. Put it in the chat. Let's listen to it right now. This is from February. The clip is from two weeks ago. Okay. Now I play it. Sure. I'm not denying anything. All right. Let's listen to this. On extremists. And I know that's another major challenge for the FBI. What can you tell me about how you're doing, what you're doing to better address that challenge? So we use the term homegrown violent extremists to refer to people already here in the United States, largely radicalized online by different parts of the global jihadist movement. And so these are people who are largely lone actors who will go from radicalization, immobilization and attack, sometimes weeks or days. And they'll choose as a method of attack, something that's crude and readily available, a knife, a gun, a car. And they'll choose to attack so-called soft targets, which is just a culture's community speak for everyday people living their everyday lives, as opposed to like a government facility. So that's a restaurant, a mall, a school. A nightclub. Right, exactly. Which means everything's a target. And so the challenge for law enforcement, federal, state and local, is how are we going to act the time as the professional say between flash to bang is compressed and the amount of information for a lone actor, that kind of attack is very, very, very limited. So it's a real challenge. It's different from the sort of sleeper cells of the post, immediate post-911 era. We have about a thousand, probably over a thousand, homegrown violent extremist investigations. As I said here today, testifying before this committee, and it's in all 50 states and in all 56 of our field offices. So this threat is real. It's now, and it affects communities big and small. Right, so that's a thousand investigations compared to like 250 ones into white supremacy give or take. Well, I need to know more about those investigations. One, because a lot of them might not turn up anything. And again, they're getting a lot more funding going towards those investigations. Like the Trump administration is- I don't know what's the point of talking to somebody like you. He also said flat out that homegrown extremism is the biggest threat. The biggest homegrown violent extremism is the biggest threat. Why do I bother talking to people who just like reject anything that doesn't work for them? They don't reject anything. Part of our research going into why the FBI and other law enforcement agencies have just now started to identify white supremacy as a serious domestic threat in the United States. They have ignored this threat for the longest time. FBI whistleblower, former administration officials, all of them have said that they have had this information for the longest time. And just now in February, they finally acknowledged that this is a problem worth putting on par with terrorist organizations like ISIS. There's a long history of ignoring white supremacist violence and instead over-policing minority communities because that's where the perceived threat really lies. That's what the public fear is in the other, in people who are not whites. White supremacists aren't scaring white people, they're not scaring the majority of the population like brown people, like other people are. That's where most of the fear comes from and that's where most of the funding for that investigation, for those investigations come from. And you can ignore the fact that in the past few years, white wing extremists have killed more people than Islamic extremists. That is an objective fact coming to us from the people that we trust. And if I go back to this report on let's say worldwide threat assessment of the US intelligence community, we're talking about domestic threats here because foreign threats are basically almost negligible coming in here. The barrier is put in place for a foreign terrorist to get into the United States and cause a terrorist attack is almost negligible. The risk comes from it. According to this community, the United States well-integrated Muslim population fragmented homegrown violent extremist population and high level of vigilance will ensure that the United States remains a generally inhospitable operating environment for HBEs, home alone violent extremists compared to many other Western countries. The frequency of attacks will most likely be very low compared to most forms of criminal violence in the US as long as USCT and law enforcement efforts remain consistent. So they're putting that threat. You're comparing Islamic terror to crime, to like violent crime. That's nothing to do with white supremacist terror, man. Come on. I just said that the US Muslim population is very well integrated. The US Muslim population is actually more progressive than the evangelical population. There's a lot of stats. So a few research says that there no one cares about this shit. We're here talking about people getting killed in terror attacks and you want to tell me about like views on homosexuality or whatever. This is a debate topic that you proposed to me that I did on my fretboard. I want you to tell me what you say you wanted to discuss. One second. I just forgive me for interrupting jangles science. Someone just said that it was a little bit harder to hear you. If you're able to just turn your gain up just a bit, there's not much I can do on my side. Is that a little bit better? Yes. Thank you so much. Pardon my interruption. Thanks, guys. So I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt for the longest time. I want you to tell me the topic that you proposed to me a couple of weeks ago when you said we wanted to discuss this. What is the biggest security threat to the United States? Islamism or white nationalism? Yeah, Islam or white nationalism? Pretty sure I said Islamism. No, we're talking about security threats. So I don't know why you're bringing up like who's more progressive? The Muslims or the evangelicals? This is so weak, man. It has nothing to do with what we're talking about. The topic was Islam versus white nationalism. The topic was Islamism. Go back to, okay, I can post screenshots of this. Go back to what you went over. You said white nationalism versus Islam. You did. So I did a lot of research on the pains of the Muslim community. And the Muslim community in the United States is very well integrated. They are not a threat to the United States. White nationalism, on the other hand, is also very well integrated into the American community. It's baked into our ethos. I told you that 30% to 40% of Americans have a strong white racial identity. So they have a roots that Islam just doesn't have in America. They can gain public support. Threats are not just violence committed by terrorists. They're also policies put in place that can despair. That's not what a security threat is, you fucking retard. I'm sorry, but that's totally wrong. That's not what we're talking about. We're not talking about policies being put. We're talking about security threats. The democratic process is not a security threat. Jesus Christ. In Sheryl Pittsville, how big was that rally? Yeah, that is a security threat. That's not a, that's not a policy. You see anything close to that from Islam in the United States ever? What? Dude, let's talk about the numbers. In our biggest history, have you ever seen a rally? Have you ever heard of 9-11? You ever heard of a little event called 9-11, buddy? Yeah, a foreign terrorist. Oh boy, that was kind of stupid, wasn't it, what you just said? You're trying so hard to own me, man. Yeah, I'm so frustrated. I'm so frustrated because you just ignore anything that doesn't like that prove everything that proves you wrong. The FBI saying just point blank that homegrown extremists are the biggest. The number of investigation speaks for itself. I don't know if you misheard that clip. You said, did not say that. I didn't say there was a bigger threat than white supremacists. That's the other clip. That's the other clip, dude. Let me play it for you. I'll play it for you right now. Hold on one sec. I've already read you the quote like four times, but I'm going to play you the clip now because you're in utter denial about this. So I have to reopen my phone. It's not about anything, dude. Yes, you are. What am I in denial of? So while this is opening, let me propose something to you that this will really prove that you don't put your money where your mouth is. You claim that the reason that there's more investigations into Islamism is because of the funding, right? But now we know as of February, it's before that, but as of the congressional hearing in February, we know that white supremacy is put on the same footing, right? So the same amount of money is getting put into it. So what if we say- No, same amount of funding. That is not what that said. Well, same threat level from the FBI. Same amount of attention from the FBI, right? No, they just put it on the same level. That doesn't mean they have the same amount of attention on it. They just said it's as great a threat as ISIS. That says nothing to do with funding or investigations. So, well, I mean, I don't know. I can't respond to that because I don't have proof of where they put their funding or what, but I would assume that- I would assume that they're for justice. I can give you this link for you, okay? I can give you- I don't want it. I don't want it. I'm going to play this clip for you. I'm going to play right now. You don't want the link saying that like, okay, I'm trying to do what you asked me to put my money where my mouth is. Between the years 2016, the white supremacists were responsible for more homicides than any other domestic extremism movement. Now, I see the distinction you're making, homegrown versus domestic. But let me ask you, can you quantify either one of them for us? Well, in terms of number of arrests, we have, through the third quarter of this fiscal year, had about, give or take, 100 arrests in the international terrorism side, which includes the homegrown violent extremism this year. But we've also had just about the same number. Again, don't quote me to the exact digit on the domestic terrorism side. And I will say that a majority of the domestic terrorism cases that we've investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence, but it includes other things as well. I think the greatest terrorist threat to the homeland is the homegrown violent extremist. I will say that we- For an inspired, which is the hottest inspired violence. That does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that we don't take domestic terrorism, including hate crime, committed on behalf of some kind of white supremacist ideology, extremely seriously. Cool. I don't disagree with that. So the debate's over. The debate's over. Oh, because one guy said he had an opinion in his opinion that he thinks nationalism is like more a threat than white nationalism. The director of the FBI. Yeah. And then a later, he elevated it back up. So we're supposed to value your opinion more than the director of the FBI. How many times do I have to give his opinion of you again? And he still thinks that white supremacy has a bigger threat as ISIS. Yeah. And homegrown terrorists are number one. Homegrown, you're still confused. You don't understand that homegrown and ISIS is not the same thing. That there's international, there's homegrown, and there's domestic. Homegrown extremists, one of the things about homegrown extremists is they're inspired by ISIS. Yes, but they're not categorized. They're not categorized the same way in terms of threat level. So when they say the threat level from ISIS, they mean actual ISIS members in Syria or wherever planning an attack. Yeah, they can inspire homegrown by- No, not inspiring an attack. Doing an attack. Definition than domestic extremism. Of course, I agree with you. I got an Amazon delivery. Hold on a second. Just have the last time too. Okay. So in addition to him saying that the number one threat is homegrown, violent extremists, we have the number of investigations, which is over a thousand for the violent extremists. Which we know is because they have more funding, because that's where it targeted is. Even though that white wing extremism has a two, almost a two to one death ratio, yeah, let's see. Yeah, the number of far-eye plots and attacks outnumbered is, with an instance, by almost two to one. The Trump administration has devoted over 80% of their funding to- You haven't sent me that link. You haven't sent me that link with your cooked up numbers. My cooked up numbers, it's okay. It's from the Brand Center for Justice. I'm having trouble like- The Brand Center? No, sorry, it's the- Brand and center. Right. So again, you claim you are using Department of Homeland Security, but it's some think tank that's not using the same strict methodology. No, for that one statistic, 82%. That's what I think. I'm sure it's bullshit. I'll go- Send me the link and I'll go over it in another video. I just gave you a stat. I'm believing like what you say with all this stuff, right? I just gave you a stat. And they, like, you can investigate this for yourself, but you're just going to call it bullshit because you don't like it and you're going to accuse me of rewriting reality? I have the- I have the- Let me ask you a question. That numbers, man. You're in the future. Democratic change in this country is going to happen, all right? There is a very high likelihood that you'll become a minority red country in the next 50 years. That has a lot of white people with nascent white nationalist tendencies scared out of their minds. That's one of the reasons Donald Trump got elected because of white identity. According to that book that I read, you white identity politics, white identity, ridiculous- That's 40, 30, 40%. I know I heard you. Listen, here's a policy question for you, man. In the future, this white supremacist movement, this white nationalist movement, the old white, is going to grow and gain more support unless we put a stop to it. Unless we put a stop to people, like, spreading racist propaganda. Because it's really easy. Online is where these people are radicalized. The autonomous movement, security specifically, names sites like HN and 4chan. And going forward in the future, one of the things they said over and over in this DHS report is that the threat nature is evolving. I don't care about the statistical nonsense. I don't care. I don't care about the numbers, man. I don't care about the numbers. Yeah, they said the threat is evolving and no one's going to change in the future. They're trying to predict what's going to happen. And what they predict is an increase in white supremacist violence because of the changing ethnic makeup in this country and because of a lot of white people's opposition to it. Let me give you a policy question. Would you be- I don't respond to any of that. No, it's a waste of time. Would you be- It's a waste of time to address that argument. I'm not going to let you walk away from that. Yes, it's not an argument. When you address that argument. In the future, do you think that- The argument that made- Why is it the alt-rights and the changing demographics that they're going to use to fuel their white nationalist fear mongering? What do you think is going to be a bigger threat going forward, which is what we should be focusing on? I'm in favor of focusing on all violent extremists. Anybody who wants to commit violence in prison or in jail. Yeah, which would you- Islam. History shows that Islam is the biggest threat. Islam is currently the biggest threat. There's no reason to believe that white nationalism is on course to outpace Islam at any- What's the most in population in the United States? I want you to tell me that. So now we're going to talk about the per capita numbers. I was wondering- No, I'm not asking you the exact numbers. I was wondering what we're going to get to. I would not laugh right now because you're about to put- All right, I'm going to start- What is the population of the United States? You got to answer my policy question first. You got to answer my policy question first, buddy. What is the population of the United States? You got to answer my policy- You don't get to fill a buster. You don't get to just bloviate the whole time. I have a question for you. I'm asking you a question. I have my- I've been trying to feel my question for a while now. You're going to answer as soon as I'm done. What is it now? Sure. Would you be in favor or opposed to a policy which said that avowed white nationalists should not be allowed to immigrate to the United States? Avowed white nationalists should not be allowed to immigrate to the United States. If they express opinions like that, I'm not sure. I don't have a good opinion on that. I have a research. I haven't thought through four names of that. I thought they're a massive threat. I thought they're a big threat. Because I also want to preserve freedom of speech because I actually don't care about the principles this country was built on. And I want to be able to- I want you to be able to express opinions. Dodge. Everybody saw the dodge. They saw me presenting my- You wanted a yes or no answer. I gave you something more nuanced. It wasn't a dodge. Saying I don't know is not nuanced. Because I'd have to think about it. Like, it would have to be- I'd need a lot more information. Is this person- Do they have a history of violence? No, they identify as white nationalists. That's all you know in the back. All right. Would I treat that person and a jihadist person who just expresses those views the same? Yes, I would. That's what kind of way you're going with that question. No, I wasn't- I'm not- I'm not- I'm not- I'm not- I'm not- I'm not- I'm not- I'm not- I wasn't talking about jihadism. I was talking about people trying to immigrate to the country. Yeah. And if we're talking about like white nationalists, if that would let someone with an avowed white nationalist immigrate to the country, versus an avowed jihadist immigrate to the country. No, hold on. I'm not asking about jihadists. I'm trying to compare that to because that's obviously what you're trying to get at. I'm saying that I want to preserve freedom of speech in the country. And I don't have a perfect set in stone answer for that. I'm not dodging anything. I'm trying to answer to the best of my ability unless you are just too stupid to understand it. Yes or no answer. But you're not giving me- Any question? How can- How can I be too stupid to understand a yes or no answer when you're not giving me a yes or no answer? You're right. I phrased that poorly. You caught me. You got me. I phrased that poorly. You're too stupid to understand anything other than a yes or no answer. That's what I meant to say. I guess that's a little bit ironic that I called you stupid and then phrased something poorly. You got me there. Now I answer my question. What's the population of Muslims in the United States? Around three millionish? Around three million. About roughly one percent. Okay, what's the population of white people in the United States? I think around like 68-ish percent. 68-ish percent. Yeah, here I am. So that equates to about roughly 200 million. So if we make the argument that every single Muslim is an extremist or the Avenger, if 2% of white people have that same sort of extreme view of nationalism, that outnumber the Muslim population. So the per capita argument is not the one I was trying to make. I'm talking about sheer numbers. White nationalism is a big part of national identity. The risk of radicalization for white nationalists in the United States is far, far higher than it is. Isn't it weird how there's so much Islamic terrorism in the United States in spite of that massive population? I'm sorry, but I have to read you something now. Sorry, I'm from 2014. Here's the actual. Wait, no, the FAI also counts like hate crime statistics. That's also a form of white supremacist violence. Not terrorism. It's targeted violence. But it's still something that's worthy of like... They're also like less likely to give a white person... It's not eight attacks since 2014. I have all of the attacks since 2014 written down right here. I can read them. Sure, what were the attacks? Okay. On September 24th, 2014, somebody beheaded a woman and stabbed another woman at the Vaughan... Just give me the numbers. How many attacks are there? 20. I already gave you that. Okay. 20 attacks since 2014. Obviously, we want to stop that. It's been more attacks. There have been more attacks, a two-to-one ratio since 2008. No, no, no, no. For right-wing terror attacks since 2014, there's only been nine attacks. And that's including like a couple of libertarian sovereign citizens in there. Those aren't even all white people. Where are you getting your information from? Johnstonearchive.net. I've gone through it. I've looked at every item. I've looked through everything on this list and he classifies them properly. He classifies them properly based on like what you want them to be. I don't trust your evidence. No, based on what the evidence shows. I want something like this peer reviewed or from like a reputable organization, that's some random website you found on the internet. Like the brain fucking trust for justice or whatever the hell you mean. Center for justice. Yeah, that's reputable, right? But this guy who's got like three BAs is not reputable. An actual institution, there might be problems with it. I haven't done extensive research on whether or not they make mistakes. But it's more reputable than a random website that you found. It gives you the numbers that you want to see. Give me the link to what they're, and I'll just skim through it and find shit that they've misclassified to push an anti-right-wing narrative. It'll take me like two minutes. Very, very honest of you. Every, what happens if there's a narrative against Islam in this country? And they're just trying to push a narrative on you. And you can do the right thing. What, so what are you saying? The media is lying about what happens in the reports and that the FBI and the police are lying in their investigation. What I'm saying is, what I'm saying is, if you give me something- Class of things we don't like. Yes, like I'm saying, I'm saying, if you give me- Here's a question for you, because there was like another terror database I looked through where they classify Stephen Paddock as a right-wing terrorist. That's the law's biggest issue. Yeah, I also read that Stephen Gorka, smashing Gorka. I'm not following what you mean. All right. So we are more likely to classify, so we're way more likely to classify terrorism if it's performed by a brown person. Right. We're less likely to classify terrorism if it's done by a white person. So the investigations I have said, most of the funding goes in investigating minority populations, despite the fact that the- I feel like you're dodging the entire point I was trying to make, which is, is the Las Vegas guy a right-wing terrorist? Hold on, I found it. I said no. I said no to that. Okay, so the only way you're going to get the kind of numbers that you're talking about is if you're taking people like him and putting them in that category. Why do you assume that that's what they did? I don't know that- I'm not familiar with the very specific Brennan Institute or whatever, but I've seen- Also, that would just be one attack. This goes by a number of attacks, not necessarily deaths. And we already know that deaths caused by white extremists, like domestic terrorism, outnumbered that of homegrown violent extremists, by law. No, that's not true. Maybe, maybe from 2018 to present, it might be true due to, like, there being a couple big attacks, but if you go from like 2016 to present, it's not true. I would go from 2014 to present. Yeah, and if you go by 2014 to present, that's not true. You keep saying that, but it's just not true. See, the problem is- There's more deaths in the US. How many times do I have to keep- So here's what we have to do. We have to actually go through every attack and see who's right and who's wrong. That's the only way we're going to get to the bottom of this. Are you willing to do that? Every single attack? I'm willing. I got time. I got time, buddy. Based on your, like, random website that you found? No, I wanted actual people who are capable of, like- Well, no, I have my source. You have your source. Let's compare. Let's compare lists one by one. See who's right and who's wrong. Why are you afraid to do that? I'm not afraid to do that. It's really weird how you don't want to do that, buddy. It's not looking good. You're trying so hard, man. You're trying so hard to win this. I want, I want, as soon as the director of the FBI said I was right. You're just in denial about that. He also said that there's four times as many investigations. We already know that that's where the funding goes. So of course there is. Okay. Here, here's a proposition for you. I have a proposition for you. Because since you're obviously going to dodge on actually going through the attacks one by one, because you know how stupid you're going to look when you try to justify things as being right wing that aren't actually right wing. So here's a proposal. I don't think it's right wing. It's not. Well, you're using data. We also know- You're just going to cite data that does that without showing anybody what the data is, right? We both know that if a brown person committed to an attack and they found ISIS propaganda in their apartments, or in which they lived, they would absolutely classify that as an ISIS attack. Yeah. But if a white person were to go out and kill somebody and we found a white supremacist propaganda in her apartment, we'd be like, well, that's not proof of anything. We both know you would do that. No, no, no. It depends. Are they killing random people, or are we talking about like fucking domestic violence? Here's your witness test. Here's your witness test. It depends on the context of who they're killing to be able to really judge them all. Here's your witness test. The Marjorie Stoneman Douglas shooting Nicholas Cruz, T.O.I. supremacist. No. And that's why you're going to do it. That's what we can't do it. That's what we can't do it. He's not ideologically motivated. He had swastikas carved into his magazine when he was shooting people. Yeah. If that was an Islamic person, if that was a Muslim person, and they had like for some fucking Muslim symbol into like the, carved into the magazine with our gun, while they were gunning down random people, you would absolutely not extend that same level of charity. That's what we're going to do. Because you are fundamentally incapable of like treating Muslim people and white people the same. I'm not saying that Nick, that he wasn't like fucked up, but he wasn't motivated by white nationalism to do his killing. We both know that he had a swastika and white supremacist or any like continually was on like white supremacist forums had a history of saying white supremacist things. White supremacist forums. He had a Nazi army into the. It was like an Instagram group chat. Holy shit. The charity that you're extending to this white supremacist murderer. I know. I don't fucking like that guy. He's a piece of shit. But listen, here's he had, he had what would be the closest thing to a manifesto, which was his videos that were on his cell phone. Right. Are you familiar with those? There is no way you would extend this level of charity to him. It's like to a Muslim person committee of crime. There's absolutely no. Well, look, at the end of the day, I can give you Nicholas Cruz and it's not going to change the, it's not going to change the tally. Like I'll just give you that one. It literally just didn't change. No, it'll change the tally, but it won't change the result. It won't change the result of who's who's got more attacks and more gas on their hands. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. So I'll just give you that one because I'm not going to sit here and fucking haggle over one guy, even though he wasn't ideologically motivated. All right. So I sent you the Brennan Center article. Is there anything that you can like see with that? Anything that you really don't like about the article I just sent you? That article is also in the live chat, folks. I can, I'll put it in there again, but so far I put in one for I hypocrite and then one for Jane. This is just about, this is just about funding. I want your source on, on what you keep saying that the white nationalists do more terror attacks. Where are you getting that from? Okay. Let's see. I got that from the investigative fund, The Nationals. Let's see. You got it from what? So this is, the thing you just gave me is from June 2018. Yeah. Okay. You understand? I'll just send you another one. You don't think that the FBI raising the terror threat of white nationalism means that they're going to put more resources in defining the white nationalists? Okay. So I'm going to propose a bet which you're going to turn down. Right, right, right, right. So on, on the FBI website, they have a terror bulletin where they post, they post news updates about every time there's a terrorist arrest or a conviction or, You're going to take screenshots of all the brown ones and put them on your Twitter profile. Yeah. What I want to know is, so if you go through that list, anybody can go through that list and they'll see that it's like five to one Islamists that are arrested. That's in spite of the massive demographic differences that Bojangles thinks makes his argument look good. So what if we say, let's start from like July 1st, 2020 to January 1st, 2021. So that's in the future. That's the last six months of this year. When we get to the 2021, we'll look through the last six months of this year and see if there's more white nationalists that have been arrested or more Islamists that have been arrested and we'll put some money on it. How does that sound? Because it's going to be more Islamists. I won't put money on it, but I'm happy to do that. Okay. Put some money on it. Put at least $10 on it. Dude, I'm a grass dude. Come on. I don't bet. Yeah, sure. Let's do that. Okay, let's do that. Let's look into the data. Let's look to see if there are like proportionally like policing people. Let's see if the funding for finding white supremacists goes up with this novel, like with this new like FBI directive. Let's see if the funding goes up. Okay. I mean, the thing that the problem is is that if there was this huge disproportionality in like ignoring white supremacists, then there would be like all these white supremacist terror attacks happening that would be massively outnumbering the amount of Islamists. I don't view security threat just in like, just in terms of like terrorist threats. And the Department of Homeland Security doesn't either. It's also about like rhetoric and like the like ethos of the nation. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Rhetoric is not a security threat. The Department of Homeland Security where do you think the terrorist threat of civilization comes from? Okay. So if you mean propaganda. Yeah, yeah, right. Extremist propaganda. Any rhetoric can like inspire people. Any rhetoric is not just propaganda. Propaganda isn't just when things like result in violence. This is such a such a like waste of time because you don't have the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI and the US intelligence committee all say that online radicalization has dramatically compressed the time between radicalization and motivation to violence and that this is increasing on the right. This is increasing in white national for having more and more influence on kind of protecting more and more. They also say that black identity extremists are a higher rank than white nationalists. And they can't cite any examples in that report. They can't cite any examples. Oh, they can't cite any. Yeah, the FBI just doesn't know what the FBI is just a bunch of racists that hate black people. That must be it. The FBI is just a bunch of racists that hate black people. That's why they write the B.I. You want to go through the history of the FBI? Oh, my God. Can we go through the history of like law enforcement agency? Look, I think we're ready to wrap this up because if you're not going to go through the actual attacks and you're not going to link me the source of where you're getting your numbers from, there's really nothing left. I just did. Hold on. I just did. I did. I did a while ago. I'm going to show you the right thing, but I'm pretty sure I do. So this is revealnews.org. Yeah. I thought you said it was. The investigative fund. Okay. The findings are dramatic. I thought you said that this was from the Department of Homeland Security. No. I said it was from the investigative fund at the Nation Institute. The investigative fund at the Nation. So again, we got all these fucking think tanks that are so much better at their job than the FBI. Funny how that works. Wait, hold on. The FBI didn't wait. The FBI also agrees with me. Where is? No, they don't. Oh, my fucking God. I played you the clips and everything duty. Wait, they agree that they're a huge threat. And we're talking about, like, hold on. In the future, you never did answer its question. In the future, who do you think is going to play a bigger threat? As do you think exchange is long? Really? Do you think it has anything to do with it? People who are like pushing for change. People who are encouraging violence or suppression of like rights in favor of the majority aren't seeing it. Dude, I clicked on. I can't find the list of attacks that they're citing and the thing that you sent me. I clicked the link. It just keeps bringing me to more articles of this. There's a map. There's a map. There's an interaction map. What the fuck is this? I'm supposed to go through all these like. You're supposed to go. Oh, no. You are so ready. But now I have a map with all the like right wing instances and we're going to go through them. You don't want to go through them one by one anymore. That's going to be like really horrible for a string. Oh, I see they've color coded it. I don't want to go through these. You can go through each one of those individually. You can make a video on it if you want. I gave you something to debunk. I just gave you some content. Yeah, I will. I will do that. Okay. I'm just really interested in why you are like really focused on like especially in your like Twitter presence, why you only post pictures of brown people doing crime. I didn't know if you. I don't know if you like caught it. Dude, this is bullshit. I came here to debate security threats between Islam and nationalism. And now you're like just going to sit here and call me racist. Oh, you are. But that's not my argument. I'm saying that you're part of you can be part of that online or like online radicalization that the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security. Oh, yeah. It's like a big threat. Right. Right. I'm helping people get killed. Right. Okay. I'm I'm done here. I'm I'm done. I'm done, man. I'm fucking done with you. You're a clown. I'm a clown. You want to do Superchast James? Because I'm going to bounce. We can run through some questions for the Q and A folks. Thanks so much for your questions. Appreciate it. And stupid whore energy. Thanks for your question. First, she said in a 2014 survey by police agencies, one of the changes from when it was done in 2007, so seven years earlier, was for Islamic extremists, which dropped from the number one to number two position replaced by sovereign citizens, many of whom are white supremacists. So it's a survey by police agencies rather than agencies are work consistent in saying that the FBI specifically was very slow to address the white supremacist threat. That's why that story from the FBI. That's why the array coming out saying that white supremacy is now on par with things like this. That's why that was such a big deal because they were knowing it for so long. Local law enforcement agencies like critics and academics are saying that you are not taking this threat seriously enough for that 2009 report I mentioned said that yet the election of a black president is like going to really inspire a lot of people. And we didn't see increases in hate crimes go up right after a ball was elected and in through Trump's presidency. The FBI has been slow to address this. Gotcha. We'll give a I have a greater chance to respond if you'd like. Sovereign citizens and white supremacists are two different things. There's black sovereign citizen groups like more sovereign citizen groups. Do you think there are more of? What? Do you think there are more of? Funny enough, if you go to the SL the SPLC heat map, there's more black nationalist organizations according to the SPLC than there are white nationalist organizations. Let's see that. I'm really interested in that. It was like five less time I checked. I could be wrong. I could be very wrong about that. Gotcha. Let's see. I got to find the the exact page. It's like. What is it? I think it's just like hate group. If you just Google like hate groups, SPLC or something like that. So we do trust the SPLC? No, I'm just saying it's ironic that according to a left wing anti white organization like the SPLC, they would say that there's more anti white organization. I think I have it on my phone. If you go to his Twitter, the mask will already be off, but he's letting it slip here. I don't appreciate the person of the time. I don't think there are more I don't appreciate the person of the tax, man. I think that if you want me to get a word earlier, if you want to be like a seriously in the in the debate sphere that you call me the our word earlier, dude. Do you remember that? Well, yeah. What retard? Yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot different than calling somebody racist, man. Racist. It's just code for anti white. Oh, wait, wait, wait. It's almost super chat. Let's go. Yeah, I'll try to find it. Pull up the super chat. You bet. Jeremy Pace, thanks for your question, super chat. They said in the last century, who has more terrorist attacks in the U.S. Islamic terrorism or white nationalists? The last decade. In the last century. Last century depends on whether or not you like classified the KKK as a terrorist organization, which I don't think they do. AKK terrorist organization. I would actually probably guess white supremacy. Next up, we can come back to that one as well. By the way. I was going to disagree with that. I have a good in the past century. I'm not, I mean, I have never thought about going past like the 90s, you know, I don't. I don't really have an opinion on that. Yeah. If we talk about organizations, right, when terrorist organizations are growing. Yeah. Like Islam, like terrorist organizations or not. Okay. Part of my issue here is that when you went into this debate, I was under, I was under the impression that you were like saying that Islam was a bigger threat because that's like this message you sent me. So maybe I was wrong. Maybe I just didn't interpret that correctly. Do you think Islam is a threat to the United States? Can you answer that directly? I meant to say like Islamists. That's what I meant to say. What you meant to say. So, okay. Yeah, I'm legitimately surprised that I'm not putting the rock in there because I'm usually pretty careful about making that decision. Okay, so would you say that Islam is not a threat to the United States? I understand that you're trying to bait me. I'm not trying to bait you. That's what I'm trying to ask you. Some kind of racism. I think that the more Muslims you have in your country, the more Muslim terrorism you have in your country. So put it that way. Put it that way. All right, the audience can interpret that as they want. Yeah, the audience can look at what's happening in England and France and Germany and other places and interpret it however they want. Gotcha. We can move on to the next one just to be sure that I'm not, unless it's an inside joke, to jangle as a verb. Is that, what does that mean? Because someone in their super chat said jangles is jangling. Jangles is jangling. Then they said six to ten goys at a time. What does that mean? I'm not hip with it. I'm not with it anymore. It's not an inside joke about that. Oh, okay. My guess is it's, sorry. My guess is it's an insult that. Yeah. All right. So sorry about that. I gotta tell them before coming on here. Let's see. Hold on a second. I have never seen this word. Oh, okay. Gosh, you guys. Okay. So let's do me a favor so I don't say anything inappropriate. If you can keep your super chats, I honestly don't know the current internet slang. So general. Bless you. General. Don't learn it. Gotcha. I think I just learned what one of those means. But General Balsak, thanks for your super chat, said they asked, Jengels, do you think that Trump's election and support direct, do you think Trump's election and support directly lead to white nationalism? I'm not sure that they're, they lead to white nationalism. It could certainly exacerbate it, but it's more likely that a sense of sentiment of white nationalism like Trump. So according to a 2016 Ugo study, he's like Trump is clearly a product of both white group solidarity and racial animus. And Trump's election was, of all the Republican candidates, Trump was like white identity predicted Trump and Trump alone. Like that white identity predicted support for Trump and none of the, in a way, no, none of the other candidates did. He was unquestionably, irrefutably, the product of white racial solidarity and racial animus. That is uncontroversial. As to whether or not he can lead to more, I'm sure that he's going to exacerbate things. He said a bunch of object, like very clearly racist things. He, one of the reasons he was so popular is that he disparaged, like went straight for the racial disparity, but also wanted to protect things that white people like, like social security and Medicaid. He said that he was going to keep those. White people like those, but he's going to attack things that are perceived to benefit outgroups other than white people. That's one of the reasons he was so popular. Gotcha. Any, let's see, for the next super chat, I think we do have that set. We do have, while that question is being pulled up, we do have a question from the stolen earth who asks, is white nationalism referring to America? Okay. America only, or any predominantly white nation. So the, the technical title for this debate was for America in particular, in terms of whether or not nationalism or Islam was a greater threat. OP, thanks for your question. Prodigy Gregory, in other words, asks, for jangles, they say science, scientific racism is a terrible thing that needs to be combated in America immediately. But you can't throw around the word racist like it's nothing because it's serious. I am not throwing it around, but I'm nothing. I sincerely believe in my heart of hearts that I have great, it is an enormous racism. And he could still make good arguments which he didn't, but that's neither here nor there. I'm not trying, I'm trying not to attack his character. I'm trying to understand where he's repeating. Gotcha. What we can do is, let's see, if, if you found that source, we can give you a chance to respond. I have a crit. Otherwise, I do have another question. I can't find the link. I'll find it at some point and post it on Twitter or whatever. Got you. I'm gonna follow you. I had a lot of trouble finding links too. And then, legendary Sanin 65. Thanks for your question. They asked for both, can you define, quote, white nationalism? In the context of this discussion, it was a desire for white people to maintain social and political dominance in the United States. Gotcha. I would assume, and it would probably, it might be different for other countries, but generally that's it. White people don't necessarily want to kick all white non-white people out, but it's a general sense that, yeah, white people should pretty much stay, you know, these countries for us, you know, we should stay at the top. Gotcha. That works for me. Gotcha. So they agree on the definition. We do have some agreement. And then with that, if you guys have to split, I don't want to keep you longer than you had planned on staying, but otherwise I do have a few more questions. So it's rat. So 20 faces, thanks for your question. They asked, the debate is about which of the two ideologies is a bigger threat, not just a terroristic threat. White nationalism is a euphemism for ethnic cleansing and is there a bigger threat to that or compared to that? Yeah, one of the reasons that he would not let me try to make is that the worst Islam can do in the United States are terrorist attacks. That's the worst they can do. If white nationalism takes hold and there's a lot of roots that it could do that, like politicians have exploited racial tensions and like this, like white fears of ethnic group taking over, they've exploited that throughout history and it could happen again. That's where the threat comes from. Like threats like this country actually undergo fundamental change or higher from white nationalism and it's from like, Gotcha. And oh wait, if you want to respond, I hypocrite, you can. Yeah, we're going to elect Hitler and start sending people on trains to gas chambers. So, oh God. We have to get to that level. It's just around the corner. We have to get to that level before it matters to write. Let a few hundred Muslims into the country and see what happens. A few hundred, probably nothing. A million. A few hundred million. A few hundred and a half million. You have to take it to a hundred and a half million. Attila the one, thanks for your question. They asked, do the debaters agree though that both ideologies are real problems? You want to go first? The extremism is a problem, but the like Islam and white nationalism of themselves are not violent. Most people who are into either of those ideologies are not violent. So no. Gotcha. All right, so I kind of agree with that, but white nationalism is kind of violent despite its nature. Like if you want to maintain a racial hierarchy in the United States, if that's what you believe in and you vote, you're definitely, like by definition, like trying to maintain hierarchy in the only way to do that is to violence. Gotcha. Thanks so much. Not really, but okay. Next up, thanks Attila the one for your other super chat. They said, does Jengels think Trump was elected mainly by WN? White nationalists. Gotcha. No, of course not. No, of course there are plenty of other people, probably perfectly lovely people who voted for Trump. But I'm saying that of white nationalists, one of the reasons that he got that big support is because of like nascent white fears of like losing their place. Of course that's not the only reason, but it's a big part of it. Gotcha. It's one of the reasons that he got elected over the other Republicans. I'll say it's probably way more prevalent there and way more importance in the primary than it was in the general. Gotcha. Let's see. I am nomad. Thanks for your question. They have a question for I hypocrite. They say, do you think white nationalists getting into the government and changing laws based on their ideology should be considered a threat to all? I mean, that's like asking if democracy is a threat to all. I don't know. I believe. I'm actually asking that. I'm actually asking that. Gotcha. Well, it's not a threat to white people, so it's not a threat to all. Is it? Well, the thing is the history of white is exclusionary. So if they get their way, like less and less people will be white. And also like the bigotry and white nationalism is like intersectional to use a word that you probably don't like. You'll very rarely find a white nationalist who isn't also extremely homophobic, or extremely anti-Muslim, or extremely transphobic. It's a good thing there's no bigotry in Islam. Yeah, of course there is, but Muslims in the United States are like very progressive. That's why I specifically bought that up because I knew you would say something like that. Gotcha. Thanks so much. Islam by its nature can be non-violence. White nationalism cannot. It's like the ideology is itself violent. Gotcha. Thank you very much. We are going to actually run out of questions. So we do want to respect the debaters' time. We will not drag this out. We want to say thanks so much for being here, everybody. It's been a true pleasure. Yep. Sorry, can I just give about like a closing statement here, just a summary of the points? Yeah, does that sound good, Jengels? Do you guys each want like a few minutes? Yeah, sure, I can do that too. Cool. All right. So you heard from the FBI director himself that the biggest threat to American security is homegrown violent jihadis. There's over a thousand active investigations into that. Well, there's only roughly about 250 active white supremacist investigations. That's four times as many. From the start of 2014 to current time, there's been 20 Islamic terror attacks, which has resulted in 105 deaths, 182 injured. Whereas there's been nine right-wing terror attacks. That's including sovereign citizens and others, which has resulted in 56 deaths and 64 injured. I did not include Parkland. You can add Parkland to it. It's still less. You could also add hate crimes into it. Well, black people disproportionately commit hate crimes. 52% of hate crimes are committed by white people in the United States, according to the 2018 FBI. Now, white people are twice as likely to be the perpetrator of a hate crime than the victim of one. Black people are twice as likely to be the victim of a hate crime than the perpetrator of one. They're performed by those things. The point is black people commit the most hate crimes. Per capita. That's the point. That was me. Yes, too. I don't know. I don't know against Jews, maybe gays. I don't know. Some whites, I'm sure. So white supremacy isn't a problem if per capita black people commit more. I got you. That was a good argument. So the FBI also ranks black identity extremism as a higher threat than white nationalism. And they can't name any. It's important for all of us. One second. Just to give an I hypocritic chance. I guess what we'll do is maybe we'll give them the few minutes uninterrupted. And then in your last few minutes, in your wrap up, we can give you a chance to respond to these. Yeah, that's fair. I apologize. You know what? I'm done. Gotcha. So we with that may want to wrap up. We want to say. Oh, okay. Can I get a little pithy? If you want to do one about the same length, although to be fair, it's hard for me to stop. I hypocrite from jumping in a few times because it was I'm fine with that. I'm absolutely fine with that. So what I really wanted to do here is to find security as narrow as possible in order to make sure it was just like terrorist attacks and violence. And it completely because he knows that he actually goes by like ideology and like potential for threats and making them like the potential to grow in size. He knew he knew that he was going to get blown out. And he kind of was anyway. So white nationalism has roots in America. It can grow just by looking to a fictionalized version of our past. In fact, white nationalism, just a certain extent, white supremacy is still baked into our current structure. So our current laws to our current like ethos. I didn't even get into a lot more of the studies that I had. But like we still fundamentally view white people as more American than anybody else. So white nationalism is nation and a large part of the population. It's been getting better. But there's but unlike what his videos say, you can stop progress. And if there are too many people like I hypocrites, like people who spread like racist propaganda on the internet, those people are going to encourage more violence, more division, more othering of people who are very much just as American as you and me. Not happen to be. Gotcha. With that, we want to say folks first, very thankful to have our speakers here today. They're both linked in the description. So if you're like, I want to hear more of him or him, well, you have your chance. Those links are waiting for you down below. And also want to say thanks everybody out there for your questions. It's been a very interesting one. We've never had this topic before. And so thank both of these gentlemen for coming on here as they have come up with a truly interesting topic. So thanks again, guys, for being here. I'll never debate this guy again who slanders me during the debate. I'll never talk to you again. You fucking piece of shit. Goodbye. Gotcha. Well, we hope you all have a great day. Keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable.