 appreciate you know being patient basketball season started tonight so it was behind about 10 minutes what's that oh just practice but games are coming soon enough so all right so we'll call the meeting to order 610 first on the agendas to prove the agendas or anything that we need to add teres no okay just need a motion to approve okay all in favor so we have 605 we got the Bethel library association yes so we have Bennett law and of course nobody knows this woman Lisa campbell so so these are your two of your library representatives trustees right is that the right okay I knew you had a title life how many trustees are there seven oh wow nice like I think that makes sense so all right Lord yours well so I did I think send Teresa cover letter and sort of a summary of what we've been up to this year what their practice yep what we're looking at for next year and one of the things I didn't include on the summary for those of you guys who are able to get to it is we're working on some accessibility issues at the library so we're fixing the steps up front that's on the agenda and looking at a ramp for the back entrance and so we're looking at funding that as well the yellow tape is because the step that goes down to the sidewalk is broken oh it broke last winter and then and then it just it's continued to sort of deteriorate yeah it's actually a number of steps where the concrete is broken and uh they had somebody fall a trustee fall oh the night after our so so yeah um so we're super busy we've we're getting our audiobook and an ebook system set up which is really exciting um we've just replaced our computers they're all installed um the ARPA grant from last summer paid for a new printer so it prints and copies and scans which doesn't sound like much but for us it's a leap forward um so and after january we're looking at reopening on saturday mornings so um lots lots to do and next year is full of stuff like look updating bylaws and that sort of thing and we're going to be a part of the university and get a um a couple of classes in there so really just trying to reach out to the community as much as we can and our board is super excited about um the changes that are coming up and super engaged so i guess i'm wondering if you guys have any questions okay uh do any interactions in school well we just got a club grant this year so we got a rural library's cliff grant so we were the recipient of that grant but part of that is working with the school to do two storytelling events there'll be one on december 8th and another one in it's not scheduled yet but it'll probably be early may um and so there'll be a storyteller coming from the cliff foundation in december and then a young an author will come and also do an event then and in may the kids will each get to choose two books to take home with them to keep so that all pre-k through um pre-k through five is so we're very excited about that earlier this fall we had a reading discussion group that's right all the school as well as adults in the community they came together read the same book came into the library did a discussion we did it was it was very exciting um so we're thrilled to be building that relationship as well so so a library actually has seems to me be quite a small area like what would you do if you had 50 people show up to want to be part of a group discussion there well we haven't had 50 people be interested i know hear what you're saying i'm hope we're hopeful i'm hopeful well we're hopeful and um one of the things we're we're taking on also is um we're gonna try to move the legislative breakfast down to the library so we start next monday a week from today yeah there you go so yes so if it gets super big um then we have some alternatives to move it to a larger space but we've had um groups with you know 15 15 or 20 people and that that after that it gets kind of um tight so things like um last summer they had the teddy bear picnic and it was 97 degrees out or something so they moved everybody inside to the air conditioning and there were over 30 people there some of them were little people so it it was a different kind of bit but um yeah if we had 50 people interested in an event we would maybe have to borrow the town hall yeah it would be exciting actually so i know this was probably two or three years ago um because every year we have an appropriation for the library right and it's just like some of the other maybe fees and appropriations that we've had it it's been the same dollar amount for ever right um so i think at that time it was like $2,500 something and i know we had a discussion at the board because we were talking about all kinds of different appropriations of you know isn't appropriation for $2,500 is it is it too small too big you know what what does it really need to be so we started talking about that board and i think maybe we'd ask charice maybe to reach out to the library to see you know what what is the long term plan with the library um and how how does the library see the town's part in the library so and i know last year or maybe it was two years ago you guys had asked for $5,000 to do the computers and then in this current budget we continued that $5,000 for member right and now you guys are asking for $7,500 this year so you know money aside is i guess is what is the long term goal or focus for the library and how how does the town fit into that so that we can prepare for you know i mean to me it doesn't sound like $7,500 a year goes very far um you know so so so what is the right appropriation and in the towns people may say no but right but what is the right appropriation so that you can have more people uh fixture steps and you know that type of thing and and for for so long it seemed like we didn't really get any information from the library so we didn't know right what's the money going to is it being helpful right you know yeah and you have an endowment which is we don't know then some out like how that works and so that was it but that's we're kind of been it yeah so our annual budget for the next year is $50,000 top of that goes directly to this two paying step so we have a library and the rest of it goes to heating the building and get the lawn mowed and having the stuff cloud and things that we need to do a lot about um yeah the town of eppels uh water and sewer yeah all that kind of stuff and we have uh budgets that decide to actually buy books you know which sort of makes sense yeah we to say they have an endowment isn't really accurate anymore they have some investment money at one point they were trying to build an endowment but they've been living and so now the endowment generates at most about $5,000 a year which is 10 which is 10 percent of our budget you guys provided 10 percent of our budget last year you know just it's a little bit apples to oranges but you know the town of Randolph provides 80 percent of the library's budget for the Kimball library so in some in some sense Bethel's getting a town library with very little scratch here um it's been the library's budget has been paid for by drawing down that investment which is down to about $200,000 that's not going to last much longer you know we have to come up with 50 grand a year they're pulling they pulled 36,000 out of the investment account last year so you know I set up all kinds of alarms when I joined he said it's not working it's not a long term solution it's true we need to sort of sober up here right I think you all got our appeal lever that we sent out in the survey asking people what they wanted from the library and we would really encourage with that we got fabulous feedback from folks um it's changing what we're doing in some respects with the library but also validated a lot of what we were planning to do which is good so that helps so ship fee I'm sorry I can remember if you you know something happened to me okay some libraries do they did that but they haven't done it for decades okay I was just curious yeah so you know another thing that we've been you know that that appeal that went out is that I've lived in Bethel for 35 years I never got an appeal from the library that's correct so first one anybody I can remember right yeah uh it needs to become part of our culture I think because you know I've sort of asked the trustees to figure out where we're gonna if we're not gonna draw down that money and actually try to build up an endowment if we had a million dollar endowment we wouldn't be worried you know it would be great to be there um but they just like I say been living off pulling money out of an investment account which was I guess easy I guess in the past people have left money to the library nobody's been doing that significantly lately we've had a couple nice requests lately to pay for new lighting in the in the non-fiction room and stuff like that but not a million dollar kinds of big requests so it's a fair question we're planning in our budget this year to draw 30,000 more out of that investment account because I don't know where I'm going to come up with $50,000 we do apply to the grants but if you as you see the grants come in at $1,500 and $2,000 and they contribute but it doesn't pay the operating expenses of the library I went to lunch with the with Christopher Kaufman Ilstrup who runs the Humanities Council in Vermont and I said what should the budget for the library be and he said 150,000 you're kidding yourself thinking you're going to run a library for $50,000 a year but again there's no money so you do what you have to do it's currently open 17 hours a week we are going to open on Saturdays with volunteers we do not use paid staff to do that and try to be selective about what role the paid staff use you know does selecting books and that kind of stuff we're trying we know we're trying to meet the needs of the community and you know I guess I don't know if I'm on your wavelength Chris but $7,500 isn't going to do it right but it's better than we had you know I think you know I think this is just the board we haven't really discussed much with the library but just my thinking through it is a one of $50,000 budget definitely is it's short but you know the second thing is I just want to make sure well two things one whatever money that the town is giving the library is going to good use and the second thing is is that what the library really needs you know I mean and it sounds like the library needs a lot more now I don't know if we can provide more but it's at least it's a discussion that we can have right and you know because continuing to borrow you know money out of an account you know just shrinks the interest so you get back in that account and and you know so I mean if we had to you know ring the bell tonight I mean what are we thinking that the library needs to do over the next year to get it in the right direction because it sounds like based on what you have there if you borrow more money this year I mean you're only you're only a couple years away from what do you do that's right you shut the doors completely so I mean if you had to bring the bell tonight I mean what what are we looking at long term or you know three to five year plan to get things moving there that maybe we can discuss at town meetings with with our taxpayer saying you know maybe we put something on the warning to say X amount of money to the Bethel library and then we can have a discussion of should we add that or should we not and you know rather than just the $7,500 you know I'm just making stuff up like do you put an extra $25,000 in there for the Bethel library like I don't know but like and at least what it does as we've all seen was says we have wonderful discussions at town meeting right hopefully that we have it in person but um it spurs that discussion and that question the budget of this year is um anticipating funds from the town or stripped out of the investment account stolen $35,000 so how did you make out on your um you know the letters that you've sent so far pretty good 82 people have responded and we've gotten just over $7,000 so yeah that was I said was the first one we've done as long as anyone can remember yeah I don't know that the law would spell that well but it was a nice it's been very heartwarming that got such a good response 82 was closing in on 10% of the of the population at the time sent change yeah that's pretty great that is great and for membership if even if you charge $20 a year do you think that would be sometimes it's hard to institute those things because it may not be worth it by the time you create membership cards and you do all that sort of stuff but you know it's like selling dog licenses right you know it's kind of tricky I'm just curious if that would bring you any sort of you know annual regular annual income now that you're offering all these great things like ebooks and you know and I understand that impulse um my concern is that not everybody in town is going to have an extra 20 bucks sure is that going to say well we can't go in there because we don't right can't pay the membership yeah and that's a good point so but that's something we can talk to our board about and try to figure out you know is there some way we want to do that well I'm sure you leave a donation jar on the counter anyway we do yeah so I'm sure that people yeah um uh but yeah but it's not as often as you might think but yeah yeah it's we do it sounds like your need is much bigger yeah it can vary I mean I've been in there when say by the week by the week 100 people 30 people no it's only open three days a week and I'm not in there all the time it's open but I would venture well it's interesting there's a number of clubs meet there it's like a quilting club and there's a knitting club and there's a book club down there tonight yeah and that's going to make a difference there's always somebody there whenever I'm there you know it's not like Kathy sitting there no one's there right um I would say gee think about these clubs probably 50 people in there we sound that's fair I'm thinking uh just thinking here uh you could increase traffic so they would increase uh notoriety or whatever I mean there's probably people that have moved here that have no idea we have a limber library it's so small right well everybody just kind of everybody else houses by the left yeah you might want to write another letter because I tell you people buy in a house I got a thing in my computer it recently sold homes every week there's six to eight more homes sold in this town in this wow in this town okay so there's a there's a rollover of folks and uh we had a young couple in here a couple meetings but they wanted to get involved and and they didn't know much about anything in that there's manual which I'm sure you guys are part of yeah so um the point is there's something new you could increase traffic will do good things just did was to business marriage in front porch for which allows Kathy to post regularly for every event happening the quilters group is in on Tuesday the reading plus tonight whatever it is and with what they call business license you can post as much as you want as opposed to an individual who's restricted like four times a month yeah so that costs us a hundred and twenty dollars but I think that gets to your point of how we're going to get more people aware of the library what's going on at the library you know what's happening there this week kind of thing and changing that last few years I think there's the time to get on the horse and and go with it we also just instituted having regularly a week once a month there's an article in the Herald about what's happening with the live one that you've got a volunteer to come in and do that you know interview Kathy find out what's happening so that's another way you're looking at promoting what's going on sorry I just don't remember I think there has been something in the town report yeah the and we have a pretty active Facebook page so I know not everybody does Facebook so hence Frontsport Forum is front and so and we get in some cases we you know I put on like the covers of new books here are new arrivals this week here's the here are the books that came from the ARPA we added the you know to our collection with a focus on diversity equity and inclusion because that's what the grant asked us to do and we got some great titles and and we got some great response to that so that we got a great response to the teddy bear sleep over too so if you well you could look at last year's town reports online and make sure you update because Kelly is looking for that sort of stuff now to update your oh she's probably I would say by the end of December okay you know or sooner whenever you get it done the other thing is too at the last select board meeting the equity and inclusion committee applied for a $10,000 grant and part of that is going to be about oh well Christie's online Christie was that a book were you guys going to do a community read or a read with a group I'm sorry I'm not yeah no it's it's a variety of things so how dare you remember everything we put in I'm sorry no it was a series of events and one of them does include like a like a book club and choosing a book and then providing the book for folks who want to participate and that might be a nice thing for the library and the equity and inclusion committee to partner on because they've got the money and you've got the space and the library so they have the money to provide the book and do all that sort of thing so certainly um through Christie or Owen or um if you don't have any of those email addresses you could just email me Lisa and I could give you their email addresses that way you could reach out to them they haven't got approved for the grant yet but um they do that would be another opportunity for you guys to raise your profile yeah to work with community groups like this with school and um and yeah and the any committees that would be great yeah but it sounds like right now and even the number that you had just thrown out there was um 35 of the 50,000 would come from either the town or borrowing you know so it sounds like it's about 70% or so of the budget which kind of lines up with the Randolph number you had was a Randolph eight thrown out there like 80% or something. I can't say this is their appeal while the taxpayers have said 80% of people in the library is operating budget I was like yeah well for two it's just not so I mean I guess the way I pursued it would be I think a majority of people in the community don't know the dire straits that the libraries in right now um and I think the at least my opinion the only way to get that out there is kind of the shock and awe valley like like you know do we want to see a library in our community if so this is what it's going to take to fund it um and in in put it out there right and we'll at least have a conversation and it may go you know you'd put it as one way or another but but you know right now I mean 50 you're saying I mean 50,000 is a bigger minimum budget right and you're asking for really 35 of the 50 to be funded by somebody other than than the grant steer clerk and probably the right budget's really 100,000 let's say right at least to start so I mean we're really looking at the town if they the town really wants a functioning library for the long term that we need to start investing or somebody needs to start investing you know $70,000 a year towards that identity and you know I I mean I so if you did it as a separate item on the warning then it becomes its own discussion item so then basically it's not we don't budget for it in the um in the general fund but you kind of add it you know or we do but we add it out there and then people can vote on it separately which means it's own article so that when it comes up for discussion you and Bennett and Kathy and all the libraries are there to field your questions to make your case and maybe somebody makes a motion to give you less than what you're asking for more than or you know or just what you're asking for but Chris is right that certainly brings your your issue front and center and you can have a good discussion about it with the you know a couple hundred I mean I remember many you know town meeting days I remember one of the only ones we had here was a big one where something with the fire department needed more funding right and you know the town didn't want to bring it forward and in the budget but there was a warning for it and we gave them like another thirty thousand dollars right it was towards I don't know what it was for at that year but but we did it but the biggest thing that I took out of that at that point is sitting in the audience was I didn't know that the fire department was in that you know issue of not having the proper equipment to go fight a fire you know I mean it was and I'm sure there's a lot of people they're thinking the same you know with the library like we just assume that the library is there and somebody's funding it right but you know everything's good to go so you thought of any any ideas that raise funds by people using library I mean if you were talking about membership fees people have had to pay them I would go use the library what if every taxpayer was a member if someone from out of town came to need to use something a small fee that's what the town office does you know if they want if someone wants to come in and read records they have to pay a fee you know whatever but to get people in there hit that's not a big words but if everybody was a member and knew that they could go use the library mm-hmm and I think people's mind if they knew that that was their library and Joe from South Wales wants to use it he's got to pay a fee right but I don't think you're ever gonna find the fees to get to a couple things one I did not know that the library was separate from the town now so so not knowing that simple thing really opens a whole whole arena of conversation that needs to be had should it be part of the town uh in some even if a some sort of a quasi relationship but how do we that fact I think is something that needs to be uh fully known and understood the second thing is that uh I understand now I may be wrong but I'm very appreciative of the interlibrary loan e-books audio books but it's my understanding that those cost money that there is a fee for if I buy if I get an interlibrary loan somebody has to pay the cost of transporting that volume from wherever it is to hear and back and so but so that's an improvement but it's also an addition to the budget it's also my understanding and I don't notice for a fact but it is far more expensive for a library to buy an e-book than it is to buy a hardcover because it has multiple owners so the way we're getting the way we're getting our feet wet in that is an app called the palace project and we're hoping to go public with that by january first but we at the moment are not the collections belong to the vermont department of libraries and baker and tailor so that's what those are the collections that people will see to begin with so that is not costing us anything at the moment so but it's basic I mean people aren't going to go in and see the kinds of choices that they see in overdrive which is something separate through the green mountain library consortium so that's an option but it costs money and it costs per person who's using it to the library which is why we didn't sort of leap in with that but this is a little different it's not going to cost us something until we decide hey we have lots of folks who like the mysteries and we'd like them to have more access that's when we need to start buying ebooks in our own titles with our in you know people libraries like so berry umpelior they all have their own ebook collections which makes a lot of sense but you're right it's expensive can you charge a fee someone to access was that too complicated a bookkeeping I haven't been charged a fee for that kind of stuff it's a service that the library provides yep yeah so and they had stuff but um again I think their library I think I think I'd have to reread their town report but it's owned maybe by the town so but it is interesting you know I've been in towns where the library was not owned by the town however they had an agreement where the town actually took care of their building maintenance to some extent so you know there are these kind of foz-eye you know things that you can enter and I think that was to help them because they had it down and once upon a time they owned a big chunk of town and they slowly sold it off and of course years later they're like hey we should not have done that but they did it you know for need at the time but so I guess we need to have a discussion about what well I mean I think we get closer and relate they're related to the fiscal physical plant where are you in terms of weatherization where are you in terms of energy efficiency with heating lighting what if any attention is being paid to those fundamental issues in terms of potential savings and all the rest example that's just gone in is all led I think they're all all the new bulbs and everything that went in there and that came from a small memorial fund that was you know given to us request have you had an efficiency remark made in doing uh we haven't I don't not to my knowledge it's great yeah okay and they go check your heating system your lighting your draft windows windows and then come up with a plan and possibly some grants okay we can look into that for sure we'll be talking more about budget tonight and I mean on a higher we're going to get more into the micro level of budget starting tonight a little bit but on a macro level the challenges that we have at the town this year is right now is just to perform the same services next year as we currently are performing we have a couple of things we have rising drastic rising increases of insurances and retirement plans again so that's awesome it's quite a bit of money that we have to make up as well as just a natural inflation of products so like salt has gone from seventy seven dollars a ton to a hundred and five dollars a ton we use eight eight hundred tons of that a year so like our salt budget is going out far you know our easel field that was thirty five thousand is now fifty you know so we have a lot of these in our budget that we're trying we don't want to lose any services where you know I think the goal is to retain the same amount of services and try to to make it as reasonable as possible but I think what I mean what I would propose is when we start putting the draft warning together is again just to get that conversation started because is I think you should ask for you know I think that we should keep the appropriation that we normally the 7500 they asked for is but then you put another thing in the saying you know shoot for the moon and say you know we need the difference of 35 whatever that is and have somebody get up and you know we usually have 200 people there we have 200 people there so you know get up in front of people and say you know this is the challenges that we have you know and if we really want to continue to have a library not just a library but a good library then we need to start appropriating this kind of money at least we'll get some feedback they might all tell throw tomatoes at us and kick us out but at least we have a starting point we know what we can do we're right now it just I wouldn't I mean I personally would hate to see you borrow more money because it's every time you borrow more money against you you're collecting less interest so eventually you're just down to zero right yeah so and then it's a real kick you to come to the town and say we have nothing so now all of a sudden we're looking for 80 or 90,000 the other thing too is once we do that um certainly you know it you know you're gonna we know you will know we're gonna do that so that would change what you put in the town report that report you know what I mean when you do that some definitely something to look at when I I'll do the budget summary and I'll put a line in there and say you know what and the first thing I'm apparently I'm going to say is the town does not own the battle library and let them know and then Chris always you know Lisa speaks before the budget and kind of lets everybody know and that budget summary is right in the town report so you think everybody knows exactly so we'll make sure that obviously that we explain that and you'll be prepared to answer questions and I would definitely start looking at what you put in the town report last year and focus that more on the fact that if if the slideboard adds you a special item in the warning then it's going to give you a chance to explain a little bit about that and if you need a little more space than you've had in the past if you did something right the rec committee did when they were looking at the skateboard park um um excuse me they came in to the presentation with pictures and charts and diagrams with red arrows and everything so if you had a handout similar to this that explained what's going on you can hand out to the folks at town meeting and this could go me you know one you know the town people could say we really want a library and we're going to have the fun or or you could it could spare private donations it could Spire a whole bunch of different things um from that discussion um and you could put you know we did it before we did the letter we did it one year us or somebody so it's on every chair you make copies and so when people come in it's already on the seat don't use the word endowment you have an investment fund you don't have an endowment that has a technical meaning that when i heard you were running your endowment that i my thought was how in the world can you be doing that if it's an endowment you can't spend the principle so don't use that word because you that's not what you had well i mean i i would say at this point we you know we move forward we'll discuss the budget tonight but if we you know approve the 7500 which is an increase anyways and then set a separate warning item for the other um 27 five or whatever that we need or that you would need so you didn't have to borrow money um i mean that could go many different ways people may just say we'll approve 10 000 whatever from the floor that's nice that's the one one thing i like about in person is budgets can be adjusted in person when you go australian ballot it's just no there is no uh we do 10 you know and we've in you've seen over the years how many times there's been something i remember one year somebody only asked for like 5 000 for something and they end up getting like 15 you know i mean it was like i've seen all of a sudden people someone made a motion someone second that and then everybody voted on it you could walk away with 100 grand you know you just don't know but i think at least against the conversation people understand that the library needs help if we do want to have a library one way or the other and this is what it's going to cost us and feel free in between now and then get any information you have on you know like if randolph funds a certain percentage of their library or or any of the other communities you know what is that amount that i'm a member of the south world's library i have a little uh slip to check out my books from the south world yeah because maybe the surrounding towns rochester doctor right i kind of go down similar side radar a little bigger but we start talking while you're buried people are going to say if you don't want to hear about it but we could hear that it's not the same ton bridge yes your world can't see healthy has a pretty impressive library actually from the side down there yeah that would be so yeah and certainly um like i said just look at your cover you need a little extra space to add that so yep if i did just tell you need extra space tell kelly you know if you look at last year's town report and say you had a quarter page would you need a half or a full page just tell kelly that i said you can have a full page so if we're going to do that what kind of information do we have to have to you is that also due by december first if we're going to add that thing to the town meeting no we'll do it we'll put on the warning has the right to put on the warning okay for it but if you want more than the 27 five in addition to the 75 i'll email you both i have both your email to let you know if you're 7500 is going to stay in the budget then and you want 27 five to go if you want that number to be a little higher just let me know and because we i haven't drafted the warning yet and um then you know you'll have the opportunity to to defend that and um and i would say any you know any take advantage of the write-up that would be in the in the town meeting day record so and that is due by i don't know by kelly january soon yeah you can email kelly she'll tell you she already put something out and i can't remember she gave me a deadline too and i can't remember what it is but if you just write email that's important because usually a lot of people look inside the book to see you know okay you know have a little history of what the library is looking for or or you could put any data on there that you might have yeah for examples of what other towns are doing or you know like it helps helps that and then yeah and once i see that it'll help me craft when i do the budget status so that it talks tells everybody like here's our budget here's the things that have changed when i get to yours i'll be able to say i'll you know get some data from your write-up and say this is why and and you know people the library trustees will be there to discuss and so it gives people heads up and then press we'll talk about it before and then it'll you'll have your own separate article and and um and uh right so i don't want to get out of the days yeah please i'm sorry i just can't remember off top of my head um i know she'd be like the end of december yeah i know she don't yeah this has been really helpful we have about a month yeah thank you very much for information is a really good summary okay of where we are and where we're going right so i i think that's helpful okay all right thank you guys very much thank you oh yeah thanks for being patient sorry about that so last time uh last time two meters ago we talked about um so you had um a request to move some money that is in the recreational fund towards the six skate park that would be identified to do the site work and you are going to talk to mr parker to get the drawings square footage drawings so that then we could get some sort of pricing or estimate for the birthworks yeah because originally i think you'd ask for i don't 30 30 what we thought the site work would be right time to talk to michael parker and see if he was um on the same wavelength that we were yeah and then ellie sent me an email asking me to get the site work estimates which i said is no problem i have a working relationship with a couple of guys and not happy to do that but i emailed her back and said i need i need a site plan i i need to get it if i'm gonna get an estimate i need to know how many square feet i'm having a big and then um so i was just waiting here back right so the people that we asked to reach for yeah um were different than the people that we were working as a committee and so um we were asking other people and and so call has been working on estimates for you and and he's not a good partner so i'll get him yeah because we didn't know how what the i had no idea what the square foot is what you're building like i know from the land water conservation grant that you had to do a like an accessibility i want to say walkway but that would also be skatable right so i knew you had to do that in order to get the 50 000 but i wasn't sure i'm like i'm happy to get estimates i just don't know what i'm getting an estimate on yeah um i included that in the footprint for phase two which is essentially a doubling of what's already there which is about 20 by 70 i think what's what's there is what's there i think it's a little over 70 um but for intensive purposes and then you had to add about five foot by something strip it didn't have to be five foot wide for the grant yeah i'm not sure the exact width it needs to be um but somewhere in that in that ball but that would be included in that 20 by 70 footprints yeah okay um because it'll be the same material yeah as the rest of the park and a flat and skatable so i'm not gonna reason not okay cool just attach it there all right that's why i wasn't sure well i would uh i think there's a big conversation about that last well there was dylan dug it last time so i figured i would get an estimate from him because he dug it last time yeah we had to do under drain because there's so much water that comes off the hill we had to so i figured i just get he did the work last time he knew what he was dealing with for soil so i figured um but it sounds like maybe you don't need me to get an estimate for you okay compare and contrast actually dylan was there he yeah and he's in the building on the side closer to pool right correct okay i can probably get that no yeah i know what worked yeah but i didn't hear that he's was going down yeah i know at least now i know what i could only go okay cool i didn't say yeah so anyway yeah and you know that can shift a little one way or the other but i think um all right as for estimating purposes that sure all right perfect yeah i'll give them a buzz tomorrow so the the set the section two that you're looking to do right now is 20 by 70 or is that okay and and then the accessibility piece of it how was how big i was just writing it's included that's included in the 20 by 70 yeah all right well that's super far as i understand it's basically digging down for frost protection yeah underneath all that nice concrete that gets poured on top so it's basically a you know a four foot deed yeah removal of material and then filling in the sand and crushed stone also have to find the um i sent how big how big was the area of phase one same same exact size yeah and that one was what 11,000 no it was more than that it was um i think it was 16 to 20 16 um for the site work just for what it came to phases i can look it up but um i gotta find the power line yeah well you have a map you see a map i sent you the map um but so i sent you the map and then i asked the um of course with tim passing away um that that hurt so then i asked the engineer got the plan from our as-built and then um they weren't gonna swear to me that's where it is so i'm gonna call yeah or kaleb holly or um no can't remember kaleb's sidekick who works at gmp and asked him to flag it is it justin and um ask him take it down there it was so this map is a little off it may be the engineer told me well because we put in a line to go up to the reservoir yeah um for his part of the water project and so tim knew exactly where it was and i'm not sure he had i i don't know about honestly when they finished the as-builds i think i got them maybe right right after might for after tim passed away so anyway so i need to find the power line kyle before before we do anything but you can get dig safe for somebody out there yeah located supposed to be way wide i know and then i just and then when they told me that that so i'm like thinking my as-built are good but he said oh it might be i'm like so i've got a mind huh yeah no doubt i'm not so that's that's a primary so i will do that and but i had i wasn't sure because i figured i'd kill two birds one stone but so what's tell me his name again because i always send lives okay thank you and um if he can't help me i can obviously call dig safe and ask them and um so locate yeah they're very good to have done it before for i'm sure yeah we did it because before when tim and i requested exactly a year ago they were right on it yep and i need to and i which is fine for me because i need to update my admins um making pictures and doing a map of where it was i know and richard has found it i know i know so far richard just hasn't located it and obviously richard hasn't been through all attempts files but i had looked in the water book because he'd done a bunch of pictures and mapping during the project but i think some of that he just had pictures and things and maybe just hadn't got to finishing obviously he thought he had just one more time so um anyway so i'll power and get an estimate from villain and um for you so what did michael say if you don't mind me asking what's his 20 by 70 price tag um he well his is you know obviously doesn't include all the site word yeah but he didn't have anything set in stone um he sort of estimated between 60 and 70 dollars a square foot okay for his cost so which would be how much for his 20 by 70 for the 20 by 70 that um i don't have to get my type later 1400 square feet it's yeah um time six oh and 65 time 65 yeah 91 grand which is 91 which reads a little high because he's sort of including features in that square footage price so a section of that's going to be the accessible portion which is a flat four and stuff like that kind of affects we got the check from i i'm gonna say is it i'll be going i saw i'm like oh there's plenty and we got 500 for bottles lately we did buy yeah so you got 50 000 there 10 000 there's your 60 000 you got you know whatever you had fundraised i can't remember so what are you looking at 65 000 fundraiser so good but so you're about 65 000 do you think i can't remember exactly it's gotta be more than that it's gotta be more than that yeah so anyways but your uh at least now you have a number and then we can see but that and i can tell you exactly what it is i just don't have to reach you in front of me um because yeah you had the 50 plus the 10 plus you were fundraising like crazy yeah so so basically we're just and we figured we could work with Michael Parker you know whatever and and we're just concerned about the site work right well figured too if you obviously you're and i can i'll go through your numbers for you again i didn't think about that today but i'll do um do that and then you'll know you worst-case scenario you you have to scale that you know a little bit to cover your whatever if you got for not but hope who knows maybe prices will drop so you know it'll just be cheaper you know to build right well i don't know i'm trying to be hopeful i'd like them yeah yeah things are still high but i mean we saw how fast everything bind so it's yeah it never goes the other way as fast well i'll get you a price from dylan and i will so i'll get a price from dylan night work right yes i also have a surprise and i'll email you all so then we also have another um person that's given us um uh an estimate of 8 000 from materials okay right and then which is 8 000 materials not including digging just right and that lindsey got um which is pretty much spot on with what the excavator i spoke with gave me so a little over 8 000 for material and then um just under 13 000 for equipment and labor so 13 000 for equipment and eight for material all right yeah i'll just get another price for you and i'll email you and then and also go through your spreadsheet and figure out what's your your fundraising so you do have a material specification sheet all right what it is what is that material um i guess he said last time like it's a mix of sand and crusto them yeah but you have something that you give to somebody new that bidding well the wood when you go to bid it out i'm just going to get an estimate so dylan i can look back and see what we paid dylan for before so i'll know tell him to quote the same materials um because he dug it last i'm just going to get him one estimate and um so because he specified last time michael parker so that's what dylan installed i'm just no you're right materials can be seven dollars of oh sure a yard and 75 dollars yard depending on what you want exactly so i'll just i'll just get him an estimate on what you know i could find michael's instructions on how we're gonna have to do more drainage work maybe i mean i don't know what they should look like you had to look at us i was a diverted kind of towards the town well we went up the town went up and dug out that trench more right so that we could deal with some of the runoff ourselves and then um um when we i'm trying to remember now for years now when dylan dug i think that we ended up having to put more stone in and i think he had to do some with the grading and some sloping of the of the area but we the town went up and dug out to to try to alleviate some of the problems drain it towards like the school side of the facility or into the parking lot side or well i think that we were yeah we were trying to drain it off onto carol ketchum's property which carol yeah when carol was fine about it we'd asked him because obviously if we're gonna push more water on his property but he was good about it and then too there's a pipe up there and we put a hose on it but i guess when this is not going to be less if the water was diverted that way which it probably was a little bit less yeah it's just stop the mountain right there is i get it i get it well yeah so will and we also had moved some equipment and did some other stuff so hopefully you're right it'll be less yeah and you know we'll see was there a drain installed like a daylight to anything or was it all surface drainage that was surface drainage yeah so yeah that's good yeah it was so we'll um give the power but i do know that tim knew that you wanted to build an addition of the same size tim tim knew that yeah before before this thing was going in yeah yeah and i remember going down there because we had to have some work done and and it wasn't you know at the end when um gw tatra did they came back and fix some stuff and i remember seeing the flags but but i know for sure he knew you wanted to build a size so um but you know passed away unexpectedly so i'm not really sure but i'll find it and i'll get it laid out and then let you guys know when it's there so you can see the flags and um take somebody sure that we have finding for this site one we still need to wait to see how much the site work as humans going to be i guess i thought we were going to have a further discussion on how much we've fundraised you don't have those numbers in front of me i didn't know that wasn't the question that someone had asked me so i didn't i were discussing costs so yeah all we knew was that ellie was coming tonight with an estimate on the site work whether or not they wanted if they wanted 30 000 out of the out of the um that actually the improvement fund or was the select board gonna say we're gonna put on the warning and so that you're gonna have to go to the voters because we do fund a portion of that every year um you know we've done 10 000 20 000 whatever that goes into that capital fund so um yeah but not knowing how much we fundraise you guys should know that i send that spreadsheet to ellie well we we have a number but i think it's different than the numbers that they have no i don't think so well i went in confirmed with her that we raised the 25 000 okay yeah she has her yeah no no i guess i think one of the things that we were i guess led to believe there's an urgency of getting this addressed in today's meeting in order to hit town meeting time to ask the voters no okay no that was what we really took oh our last no we're just still doing the budget and then we have we haven't done the warning or anything like that so no oh yeah okay you were made there was a very urgency oh yeah if you don't have it by tonight oh no no no i'm sorry if you don't know we okay we won't know i think the only the only discussion to be had will be at that point is yeah is you know right now in the recreational improvement fund there's like i don't know 60 or 70 thousand or something like that that's in there um that's not identified for well really anything but to back up there you know there was an understanding when we did phase one of the skatepark there was a lot of discussions about how much and how many square feet that we could go up like remember we talked about even if tony hawk himself showed up with a million dollars like we're only doing a certain square footage out there um just because there's other plans for the green space um so there's been those discussions but in this case what we're what mainly talked about is roughly 20 000 of site work that needs to get done and does and will well the board controls that money but we've also made a promise to the citizens of other things coming in in the so um you know do we take the 20 000 to go do site work with it or do we leave it in there towards the master plan which the next pieces to come the other thing that we have that we have to address that ellie's really aware of is our pool is in dire shape of some work which is going to be a big ticket item here in the next two or three years um so i mean we're talking you know we have 60 or 70 in there now we're probably talking a quarter quarter million dollars that the work that needs to be done over there so and i hear what you're saying but i just feel that we have done so much of fundraising and and and really working hard for this project and there's so much gun hoe approval from the voters and for the um whatever for this project to get done that you know i i understand that there are other things too but it does say in this town report article 19 that the town voted to approve the creation of a fund um and a mystery by the select board i get that for the purpose of constructing and maintaining improvements and and for for us you know the construction and improvement of this one private project to get it done so that we can um set our sights on helping and working on the other stuff too and you got all your money i mean you guys made a you made a plea directly to the voters i understand before i came for the skate park and you got all that money plus the select board gave you additional money plus yeah money and every bit of money that was ever right earmarked for you you you have been given right but you're right there's still money there so it went up at 8 000 at spring yeah people don't need eight thousand dollars yeah you know so so it's there we've been working hard they they they like this project they use this project and and and and so if we're really working hard to get this done in 2023 then we can work as hard on the other projects this is the worst case scenario either your guys are gonna you will either allocate money from the existing rec fund or you're gonna do for them what you're gonna do for the library which is put them on the warning and let them talk to voters directly yeah i mean i'm thinking this case probably the logical way to do it is just to say to the voters that the current well they know because we put it in the book every year that this is the current value of fund and that and that the recreational committee is asking to use whatever if it's 20 000 dollars or 23 000 of that would like to go towards part two of the excavation you know not from the existing it's not for the voters to decide on the existing fund that's your responsibility well it isn't it's not but if you want additional money then they could make their case directly to the voters i know but the only reason i say well the only reason why i say that is go back and i want to open the forums with ellie but there was a master plan that was put out there for all the voters to look at oh and i have a cop there actually there was three master plans yes and everybody was able to look at the plans they're in town meeting day yeah and voice their opinion on i don't know if it was a b or c but there was or one two three or whatever and then there was variations some of them were two of them were kind of similar one was kind of way different and everybody voted on that one master plan and then of course you know there's been lots of things since then that you know have come fast or not come so fast and so we're just trying to make sure that we're inside the realm of what the voters of whatever eight years ago had asked asked for us 2013 because trust me we get the questions if we you know if all said we move money from that fund and then people will ask us well what about the basketball courts or what about the tennis court or what about who you know so we'll we have to be able to you know have that discussion with them so you're just going to say based on that you know we have two young girls and they were with us at that town meeting when that was approved back in 2013 and they're still waiting for the scheme to actually be finished so just think about their role yeah so it's so sorry go ahead oh i was just going to also say that the everybody here is here for the scheme you know we're not here for the basketball court we're not here for the other thing that's what we're pushing to try to get done and that's where all this court is right now and that's what's generated all the money we've raised and why we all think and a lot of other people think that it's worthwhile investment in our town yeah and i don't know if any of you were able to see what the amazing were kyle did over the summer with camp kickflip but it's incredible the range of kids the age groups that they come and there's kids there that have never skateboarded before in their life and they're just so excited to learn from him yeah i was over at the pool several times and there was always somebody on the skateboard yeah budget in the recreation budget um the draft that's it's out to have it sealed every obviously we have to have it sealed every year so we paid for that so we did budget and i increased that case the size increased so we did you know we are maintaining to have it sealed every year so um but yeah there was always kids over there so what you can do is just make this another it'll just be part of ongoing discussion and i will do all the math and send it out to you again although ellie has it as well and uh tell you exactly what's what you have in there what's left what's for grabs whatever and then um it seems like that's going to be the decision is either they're either going to appropriate it to you but so you have one estimate and i'll get another estimate from dylan and then just email it to you we'll find the power and um then you'll have an idea of really because at this point what you're asking the select board for is originally you were just asking for site work which was you know in this case would be 21 000 but in fact you may need more than that because if you don't have the 91 000 between the 50 plus whatever else is in there you may need more than just the site work so i'll do the math and run it by all of you guys to see if you agree and then um they'll just the select board can you know we'll just continue it as far as a budget discussion if you guys are all cool that but i'll do the math and email all of you so you have it you were the assumption too that maybe michael park would be able to work with our budget too so once we knew what we had for fundage we say this is what we want we want it to be five by seven 20 by 70 this is not much right exactly yeah no i'll change some things yeah again like you said a lot of it's flat so there really will be yeah and he said he suggested before yeah he did yeah he did he was very nicely through something in extra and variability in the design yeah all right to adjust yeah because ellie has an up-to-date spreadsheet that i think she shares with you guys at your rec meetings so um yeah yeah yeah we have and we see we've had all these different all different all right so i'll get um it's like he wants to say something we we want to say that i hear you that there are other ways than a vote at our meeting for the constituents to express their support and one way a significant way is by participating in the in the event and in the skateboard using it and another way is by funding it through donations and so on and so forth and i think it's those are powerful indications of public support for this whole thing and i want i just want that to go in the record that that uh there is support and there was support at that meeting when uh the town said no we're going to go do this even though there were some members who were really really vocal in opposition so uh i want to give a tip of the hat to those of you who have worked so hard on this for for not only doing the work but for promoting it and getting the town to support it the way they have well um i i must say too that when we did the survey in 2012 i went door to door in four neighborhoods and talked to people and got the surveys and had people fill out the surveys and so many people told me they love the pool their families use the pool they love that their kids have swimming lessons but once their kids get to be 10 or 12 years old they don't use the center they don't have anything at the center to for their kids they do the swimming lessons but once their kids get 10 or 12 the family does other things and so since that survey and since that committee we have been working for activities and different things at the at the center for a variety of people for a variety of ages for a variety of kids and expanding not just families with little kids you've seen that center we put in picnic tables rails you know we're doing trails we we we listened when when the top thing the talk talk folder gather when we did this survey and i have the survey here the top thing was not the pool when they did the survey the top thing was not they're interested in the pool it was in trails and biking and other things right which obviously we're focusing right and that's what we're focusing on that's what we're doing we're expanding the trails the trail from the center to the school right trails and the and the marshmallows you know we were we're focusing on activities for a variety of people and kids and ages and you've done a family on friday and friday fun whatever so so that's that's our focus and um and and and we're working hard at that all right so i will do the math get you guys the math get an estimate from dylan to share and um we'll like i said locate the power and then you know the then you'll be able to look at it when's your next rec committee meeting um when i say uh not this one but the seventh i think perfect then i will get you all the information so that then you guys can talk at the seventh our next meeting is the 12th and so then you guys will have a better idea of exactly what your ask is so december 7th all right i will get it done and then um you guys can talk about it and send me an email and say this is what our ask is and then that'll be perfect because we'll meet on the 12th and the 19th so you're not too late we just have to know exactly what the ask is and how much we have so yeah sure and and and basically just you know when i came to october was because i know it seems like early but but knowing that you're talking about the town budget and talking about you know town meeting already i felt that that you know it's always good to be here it's the girls down i feel like we're always talking about the budget so yeah as a town committee and exactly what we want you to yeah so i will get make sure you all have i have all your emails so i will make sure everybody gets the numbers and get them kicked out to you so you have them before your meeting and then you guys can discuss it and we'll know what we're dealing with and i'll i'll call dylan first thing tomorrow and drive them out there you get a message now and chris said they're gonna talk about the budget um tonight later is that on recreation too not really i mean the section you've seen all the you've seen the all department you've seen that budget that's but now that you said the pool doesn't matter it's easy because now we can just take pool director right out yeah as it saved the seventy thousand dollars that's right so yeah no the rest is just the rest is just i believe she's on the record yeah does that sound right when like yeah yeah yeah so it's not for you i put a placeholder because i know you've had informational nights sometimes before town meetings so will we have an opportunity to do that too well we yeah we legally have that too we always do one ten days before then we do an additional one but you'll know we'll we do a few of them we'll be sure i mean you're gonna be now we'll make sure it's that it's part of their budget discussion on the 12th because then i will have given you everything i can give you and you will have told us what your ask is and then the select board can either they're either gonna take it out of the capital fund existing or they're gonna put you in front of the voters just like they did the library i have put a placeholder in the budget um just for ten thousand you know how we usually ask you guys how much you want for the recreation master plan money i put a placeholder in a ten thousand just because i wasn't sure what to put in and that's what you've done last year so i didn't really know thank you thank you and thank you for letting me be a girl standing it's always nice to have somebody come and no one advance so all right and as soon as i get power i'll let you know kyle i'll send you guys an email and then you can yeah because i don't want to come over there and and see where the flags are yeah i will yeah ask them yeah yeah so we i'm sure there's a map and we will find it richard will find it eventually but i did ask it i know because tim promised me to take oh and i you know what i guarantee you and he had the nice white chalk and i was so it is there somewhere he had a nice white chalk and i started thinking to find yeah i'll take pictures and you know what and and the maps that he did do were very like here's this landmark how many and richard just hasn't found it yet but i'm i guarantee you ellie it's it's there i just richard hasn't found it yeah because i emailed him first i'm like did you check tim's files he must have one labeled the rec area and he's like i can't find it yet but he will you know a couple months from now we don't need it anymore so but that's the way it goes well thanks for coming all right yeah thanks congratulations on the 10 000 or i hope because camp came in and said what is this and i said remember your discussions with wendy about how we're supposed to get the money and i'm like it's that so yeah so we did get it told me about that yeah i'll be yeah so we just got it i don't know last week week before anyway so it's in there so that's great now what you do will it continue to commerce that a one-shot deal it's a one yeah that's it okay all right i could open up a new fundraiser yeah um yeah i really should have had it go for longer but the iob fund raising coaches said to not have it go too long yeah below the fund raise which is raising i mean you did 10 grand and not yeah you know so that's great so um all right no i also was thinking down the road if we had to do the pool that i was like oh i'll yeah i'm chicken to this again through the library yeah what other ones it was really it was nice that they just sent us a check which made it our lives so much easier so thank you for doing that i appreciate that i can tell them about aob and yeah oh yeah that would be great i mean he's definitely you know and he might be surprised like you guys how much you got i was surprised when i saw the chat yeah that's right thanks don't go cashing that check there yeah she already tried we already put it in the bank it was made with the most legitimate sources that's right that's right lindley it looks legit lindley raised that students raised that money so right we um i don't know some online donation platform that's as much as i know their name that's it public comment to anybody that has anything that's not on the agenda now's the time maybe hey everybody it's christie how you doing thanks for thanks for all of this it's been really interesting topics so far this evening you've been hopping there i did have a question just a clarifying question if can you explain for the rookie here i feel like i'm always the rookie in the room um when you need to bring something to like if you'd like to bring something to a town meeting for vote is that considered a warning or uh is that the terminology you use because i keep hearing vote and warning and i don't know if they're the same thing and if so what's the process can you like give me is there something on our our beffel town website that tells us how we can follow a process to present something to be considered for that because i'm i'm really unclear of the process sure i could explain it to you so it actually would be the secretary of state's website but say for example um i don't know say you wanted to put something though so the warning is what you actually vote on at town meeting that's the document that tells everybody where um the town meeting will be held what time uh what are the articles that you're going to be voting on so it shows first it lists if you look at a town report you'll see it lists all of the voted um officers and then it says you know the budget or whatever so the that's the warning that's what you're voting on so if somebody wanted to be sure that the town voted on something for example we may be voting on this year on cannabis because you know it's an opt-in vote so for example say um you wanted to vote on cannabis retailing you would come to the select board and say hey i want to vote on cannabis retailing and are you going to put that on the warning and the select board could say yes they're going to put it on the warning or they could say no in which case you would have to petition for it that's where you have to go around and get x amount of signatures of registered voters in beffel and have to turn that in through the process that's outlined in state statute and on the secretary of state's website then that comes to the select board and frankly depending on what it is the select board even if you get enough signatures the select board does not have to put that on the warning depending what it is so i always tell people if you have something that you want to vote on at town meeting um come to the select board because it could be something that residents actually can't vote on so or do a binding both would be a non-binding referendum say you wanted us to address climate change right so that would be a non-binding referendum so if you have something that you think that you would like to vote on at town meeting just email me email me and i'll tell you okay more detail on the process right and i'm so glad i heard ellie and her girl scout i was a granger i wasn't a girl scout just gonna be full transparency here um but we were still maybe not as um prepared maybe i don't know but what's kind of timeline are we talking about as you're preparing for things like i just you know just to make sure i completely understand this um if you want to get something on you know like the process like understanding it this is super helpful to understand how that works and understanding that you don't have to take everything to a vote right even if it's been petitioned in right i get that's really good to know but i also don't understand like what's the timeline of things because you like the last books were talking about the rec community were talking about wow we thought we had to have this locked in tonight so what is it is it does it depend on the thing or is there a time frame there's actually a time frame set out by state statute so i have this big calendar on the wall of my office and we just went through the other day to highlight certain things so i'm gonna shoot from the hip here a little bit i think that we normally sign the warning i think in december the end of december beginning first end of december the middle of january first board meeting that week that we signed the warning um because we have to have the the warning has to be published x amount of days before town meeting and it has to go in it into the town report so it goes out to print so there's a whole schedule which i'm sure is on the secretary of state's website but if you email me i could i'm happy to look at my calendar and send you some the information but again if you have something specific that you want to that you want to vote on or talk about then you should it should come to the select board like soon the 12th or the 19th of december because i will be drafting the warning soon um so like for example i know we're gonna talk about whether or not we're gonna do the opt-in for cannabis um we'll be on there this year um i feel like there was one other thing that i totally forget thing right now australian ballot australian ballot was the other thing that we were talking about possibly putting on the warning um what and so okay but so yeah it's super helpful i appreciate you giving i know it's such valuable time but this really helped me because i'm hearing everyone coming and asking questions and not understanding timelines and the resources makes it hard for me to understand everything that's going on in all the context you know so i really appreciate the extra time you took thank you thank you sure no send me an email too christie if you have more follow-up questions i actually could give you specific dates and and things so send me an email and you know i could give you more information than you probably ever wanted so i guess i should be careful what i asked for yeah yeah but if you have a question email me i'm happy to send you the dates i just don't know the box on my head thank you so much and even if you do come directly to the select board probably not a bad idea to have some conversations with neighbors even if it's something like a petition uh just to bring awareness to the wider community all right that's good to know thank you yeah i mean ellie i think her example i mean she was full of valuable information how she was going door to door even in 2012 i don't know how that would land now but you know the fact that you know she had sounds like such a valuable valuable feedback and data um it's about conversations right and relationships so that that really resonates for me thank you one of the things that we you know we'll be encouraging because it's the first town meeting we've had in a while is that all committees have a presence at the school on town meeting day and most committees have always done that in the past besides have pie uh if we're gonna do that again people had um booths there so the recreation committee equity inclusion could have one and then each committee was trying to look for you know maybe they had volunteers or could let people know that we're voting what they were up to so that's something to think put on your radar too okay thank you i did not know that i knew about pie but i didn't know about the booths thank you you knew about the good part great so we next have uh better connections steering committee yep so we would just like permission we're gonna we are gonna make hats and mugs um using a online something rabbit i can't remember the name of it maybe lindley can but anyways um from south royalton and we're using the better for all logo because we did the parks challenge and we're doing some prizes so which would be mugs and hats and so for no hassle to us we can advertise that so people could buy them directly from this vendor and they would be you know sent someplace they'd have to pick them up but we could earn a little money off that we and it wouldn't really be a big effort to us and um so anyways i let the steering committee know that they had to have permission from select board before they did a fundraiser so um and then obviously the money would be earmarked or towards the implementation of future better connection projects i did tell them i didn't really want to open a whole new fund for you know 10 bucks if it was that it would go into the general fund and be used but um if it was you know but they were all open to that some using it for implementation of future projects so okay all in favor and then we had some amend some material rules and regulations Christmas trees yes that came up um i hadn't thought about that for so i put in the highlighted language that just and i did run it by Cecil reads may also be placed from a shepherd's hook from november to april christmas trees are not allowed i took the wording i honestly read the veteran cemetery they use natural reads but Cecil said no you can't say natural reads trees because some people already have decorations up that are not natural reads so i don't want to make that you know cause that hassle i'm like okay so this is the wording um that i'd like to add and if you guys are good with it yeah it's um i mean i had a it all stemmed from a yeah an individual that had reached out to me week or so ago wanting to know if they could put a christmas read on a shepherd hook that they had and i said he said i don't know i've been doing it every year my mother's grave yeah i don't have a shepherd hook i had a actually it's my trail can stand but i'm not going to this year do it so i don't piss somebody off yeah well and we did um we you know we just didn't it didn't come up when we were mending this before i never thought about it and i should have because my mother-in-law puts a wreath on my father-in-law it's great that the veteran cemetery should just didn't cross my mind so um i just wanted to make sure nobody was a violation of policy and so Cecil's good with it i'm good with it yeah i'd make a motion to amend the cemetery rules to include the christmas wreaths what's securely installed thank you the monument that's the same wording we did before which means you want it to be something that's don't go so say a piece of birch stick in there you know like it has to be near the monument so we can lead whack around it and hope there's this level with around so nothing to hope to yeah yep so just a shepherd's hook so you just put it you know and you can get shorter versions of them and that way it's tight to the stone and then you can weed whack and that's not a big deal and stuff okay so move second all in favor all right okay and continuing on budget discussions so so i went back through updated some stuff for you and i did go through and make the changes that we talked about before adjusted some salaries um also um i did just get the audit tonight and um one of their comments was for us to stop budgeting delinquent taxes prior which was kind of fun which was kind of fun and i told them i've told them before we're going down five a year so but what i did put on here on the revenue on page two you asked me what the delinquent tax list was so i told you what it was in 2021 and what it is in 2022 so i do think that the 15 000 in penalty and the 59 in interest are still good numbers um to use because that was one of the questions you'd asked um so i do think that's good i think that was the only i think i made an adjustment on admin reimburse from sewer water um obviously that changed a little bit went salaries and things changed but um other than that i didn't change anything on the revenue side and then on public works personnel i went i budgeted for three full time and two seasonal um there's not a big increase that i'm even i don't even know about the retirement increase i just budgeted from 19.5 to 20.08 just because i don't know um i budgeted the increase in health insurance and then did just a 10 percent like we normally do for the other half of the year since we're 18 months out i did compare uh what i i was have been working on blue cross blue shield versus mvp and one of the plans that i thought would be the most similar i did email with blue cross blue shield and it's not um you know the same coverage so i try to look at another plan to see it doesn't look like either be a big savings there but i i am so i'm still working on that the plan that looked like at the quick at glance was going to be you know very similar was not so um you know once you get another fine print so um we'll see about that i did put out an email today asking um vermont local roads if there was a way that we could take advantage of the um um uh state of vermont has trainers for cdls and i and before we could train a cdl driver ourselves and now we can't they have to go to school i did find out that in order for due to the training you also have to do the driving with the trainer so you can't get your cdl permit and drive with one of our cdl licensed drivers you so i did email totty and today to see if he knew if we could get in with the trans um to see otherwise you know that's a a cost to us but i didn't budget for it um completely but i did increase the budget from a thousand to 2500 just just to see um so the next one is 20 000 for tires and change yep i did did you guys had asked me to research that so i did i went back um 20 to 21 and 21 22 and we had spent 22 000 um both years so but that was out of the existing repair parts it was but then i spoke to i spoke to the someone on the equipment committee and i spoke to um morgan and aj and you know part of it is that things are we still have old equipment the loader needs service and while we have replaced you know a couple of trucks we still have a grater and a loader and those parts are expensive and it's still so what i had done was gone back and i just level funded the proposed budget from last year for that they're saying that to to cut 20 000 out of theirs they're going to overspend it it's just we still have aging equipment while it's not trucks it will be you know other it will be you know the loader the grater etc um so they are requesting that we leave that you know that we leave it in there well it's just like the previous year budget they it was 74 000 total yeah and now they're looking at going from 74 000 to 90 right and it seems like an awful jump but don't forget that one of these years maybe it was 2021 that they that alan came to you and you guys paid for tires out of the capital fund which was a sizable you know cost the you know um a sizable you know cost at the time and um so i can just tell you what the we bought more tires that year than we normally buy because we tore some up with some the wrong chains tire chains exact and the wrong perhaps different cycle of chains you put the chains on the older tires and the new tires in the spring but um so anyways they are you can cut the budget but i mean and that's fine but just remember that they're telling you that parts are expensive and that you still you have a loader with 9 000 hours and you know and this is not just us this is also part of the equipment committee saying you know but you know you can knock 10 grand off it and take your chances or that's fine we have the take 20 out of the aqua money we did put we have we did 20 for a new toward the new truck truck yep yeah you could sure you could yeah you could leave it in this budget sure yep absolutely i thought we weren't going to use that money for anything that's going to be in the budget again next year right yeah you'd have to take care about that you'd have to take it out of the capital fund i wouldn't you wouldn't put it back in this budget you'd take it out of the capital fund at the time if they had a big breakdown that you felt you had to fund well i think we did that at one point in time wasn't there a piece of thirteen thousand dollars for a transaction that we had to allocate money on the fund for that yeah the transmission so you could do that so you could reduce this hoping that you won't have an issue and then if you do be prepared to say okay we don't want maybe we'll take a little extra out of the equipment you cannot plan for them you you you just don't know what you're going to need so right i would i would argue for you keep it in there and if you don't spend it well praise god yeah but uh i think that that's something that needs to be in the budget and it's a regular budget expense even if we don't use it any every year because they did a couple years ago the equipment committee had made a recommendation to the select board that you spend 10 up to 12 thousand maybe for repairs on the grater to keep it running so you could certainly do that again and say you know regarding the loader to you know or i obviously if you're going to do that i could get to the equipment committee and they could decide what to spend it on but certainly yes you have the option of reducing that number and saying okay we're actually only going to give you x in the budget and then but if something comes up you look at the capital fund i think just looking at that my only concern and is we put a equipment the you know committee together to tackle yep not just purchasing but maintaining our equipment yep and and i think that it's done well but it's also supposed to be there to be more efficient for us and it seems like our budget has gone up and up and up and up every year so i guess the only thing before i get shot here is is to say needs versus they want thing so yeah you know like sure since we put the equipment i mean we were at anyway in our bookkeeping is much better now but you know we were at $50,000 for everything repairs parts and tires and here we are four years later we're doubled that well sure you know i think because you're doing a more accurate account on what and also too so i think that and the equipment committee is really purchasing new equipment and working on that schedule we haven't really tasked them with managing the existing yes we kind of look at needs base when we're doing the equipment plan on what we're going to replace next and we know that can change but they don't usually delve into that i think that for morgan and aj they're both you know new to these roles and they i'm sure they don't want to come out of the gate knowing that the status of a couple pieces of equipment but if we lower the budget and and we say to them look we're going to cut the budget but if you have a big issue we'll go to the select board and look at the capital fund then they're going to be fine with that they just don't they know that the expectation is this is your budget and you are if you overspend the line you're under spending somewhere else so i certainly think that if they know there's other options available to them then they're going to be fine with reducing this number so if you want to cut 20 out of this um to offset their other one then then i think that's reasonable knowing that they have a so if you want to go to 49 three to drop the 20 to level fund that i don't see that as a problem dropping that to 49 three and leaving the 20 in separately to leave you level funded to last year last year oh i'm sorry yeah sorry you already got it then i'm just throwing it out there no i'm just saying you know we got a 60 to go through 49 three plus the 20 puts us back at the 69 so i i think that's fine did just like i hear when we first start talking and did someone actually have numbers on on tires and chains for last year i did it's right there in the in there 22 22,000 in 2021 22 we spent 22,000 on tires chains and cutting edges also too i will say morgan and aj are looking and purchased a different cutting edge um that they might be a little bit more for the setup in the beginning but they think is going to last longer so they think they are going to be able to manage their costs um won't need as many cutting blades that they think that will work out so um you know there's a little there's some possible savings there too so i think that if you want to put 49 three in the pairs and parts and leave the 20 that leaves you at a level fund to last year and see where is that what you want to do i'm happy to do that no no what do you want i would say i i will split the difference with someone if they want to but i we all know everything is costing more and more and more and you're if you can't level fund that that piece okay well no matter how you want to break it down repairs parts tires change kind of and put all them on some 69 three if it was barely enough a year ago it's not gonna be enough now yeah and he was saying you know 74 three is what we spent last year and if you took 22,000 off that then you spent you know 54,000 last year on anything that was not tires chains and cutting edges so so what you have right now would be you know 15 so you got like a 20 increase over last year right plus the new item 20,000 is what i don't think you can i don't think you can level fund i i don't i think that's unwise so you think leaving repairs parts and tires putting it to 55,000 and adding the 20,000 just really they just want to separate it out so people can see because they said this repairs parts number gets so inflated they want people to know what they're actually spending it on um which we always want more accountability so we could put the 55,000 in repairs and parts which is what david's suggesting and leave the 20,000 for tires chains and cutting edges probably not gonna be enough but it's it gives them a different number to look at that yeah hey we gave you a little more money to try to be good with it if you can and obviously there's things that happen that you right and these guys are also going through doing all the service since morgan has taken over he created folders for every single vehicle so now all the vehicles have you know maintenance and service records that they didn't you know have before so where are you getting the 55 from david's recommendation oh okay it's not on the all came out of this thing up here oh boy stage or a square foot so what do you think about that 55 and then 20 i think that's what i was pretty insane i'm not sure that i changed anything else under here the 55 and 20 yeah if you do 55 and 20 then you're level funding it in the previous year right which didn't david say that nobody was against well she meant level level funding actual expense actual not budget i'm not going over the actual i'm going i'm using the hoping the next actual will not be would be that again but we're not level funding if you take the budget number we're going to add oh i thought you were talking about based on the cost no i'm basing it on the budget and hope that we can yeah i'm fine 75 these guys can can figure it out just to save a little money to stay within that 75 thousand exactly all right so it seems like there's are you good with 75 lindley thumbs up from lindley paul yeah okay i don't think i made any other changes to the rest of the line i don't mind trying to put notes in here if i did um oh i did that's not true i did on roadside mowing i just did an estimate and dropped that amount um because we had talked about that i also reduced the um sweeping so that we weren't uh so we weren't thinking about doing that too yeah just do a one yeah do one time so i did reduce that as well and i think that you're not from last time then salt i i was right i did the math i just made it look better this time basically so i did 800 ton at 115 50 but i emailed cargill the other day and i have to once i have some more time i need to email her back because we have a price the state has a price a different district has a price and there's like eight million prices out there we actually use uh all 800 ton last year or buy 800 we buy 800 ton yep i did go through last year and double check so do i think it's gonna stay i do i think that number is a little high at 115 50 a ton yes because i took you know i do i'm i'm i'm hoping it is because we're paying 78 now but then they were paying 105 but i know the state's paying less um so i think my estimate of 115 50 is high why why do why do we as municipalities have the same prices as state we do there's no more transportation i mean there's places in the state that are way far out compared to us yeah we do generally get state contract pricing and i that was my email exchange with her and it basically i need to take time to call her and because there are several prices out there and i did look at the state contract and different districts have different pricing so i'm always confused when you go on their website there's a lot of views i understand it completely there's a million state contracts up for different things but normally we do like for example all of our culvert pricing Bethel Mills matches the state contract pricing it's pretty easy in state of Vermont there's for the most part there's one distributor of salt there there are some times you know there's one distributor of salt and there is mostly one transporter of salt Barrett's and i am being that it is that's why they were a hundred miles away but the district down here and the district ran off get their salt for $80 a ton and we're right in the middle and we pay $100 a ton i don't understand that we should we should get it for whatever those two districts get their salt should get it for that we i mean we should look into that but i think that's the way you can take it back off the state i was gonna say can we can we define it's their salt for 80 bucks we should be able to get 30 bucks like i just said i again after this year we have to we have to think that this budget doesn't start i understand but but we know that this year it's oh i hear it is messed up this year which i agree and and like i said i emailed the lady and i just haven't had the time to call her and we need to have a full-on conversation because i emailed her and said i looked at the state pricing why aren't we at this price and she sent me back this email and i'm like all right i need to reread her email and call her to get a better take on it but anyways we're at a good price right now but for this season for this season i'm not for next season right and i just don't know because what we saw this year for the increase in price and then we actually got a better price than they were advertising at the time um because they wanted to charge us 105 and we're like no way i mean locked in earlier so i took 105 and multiplied it to get to 115 because i just don't i have no idea so but i do i think my number is a little high yeah i mean realistically what probably happened is we probably should hedge our bets and make sure we're covered but there could be some opportunity there if we don't use all our salt money that we could turn that into gravel money and go do some more yeah you know exactly if we if we you know we still have 20 000 left over we add gravel you know we go get some gravel areas you know we also have strong to recommend that morgan will be the one spreading the majority of the salt this year and he feels that there's gonna be savings this year that maybe we were over spreading and we're getting like and we did they calibrated in this time he said he said he will be the doing the majority of salt and he said i think that there's savings to be had and how much we salt and how often we solve so it's all going to depend last year we had a ton of ice and all depends on the storms we get a lot of ice and you have to do a lot of salting just to cut it and you know it's so yeah the other thing you'd ask me is about staying for you because we snow you stand or salt behind you're done that's right the other thing you'd ask me about was the gravel and i talked to morgan about that and he did say that that also includes material for mud season so gravel is not just for um you know it's also includes mud season we did talk about sand as far as changing to a new um material the only thing i would just and guardrail i did reduce teresa because just i would just strongly suggest that morgan and or you just get some really good documents of of the sand blenders that we're gonna do this year and how well that does work like yeah get out of the season we say we didn't really see any different than the previous season we just go back buying the other sand that was cheaper you know but if we actually see a benefit of oh it's staying on the roads it's building to the road base it's like that and sand twice a day every day then i could see like spending the extra 20,000 but if you say oh this stuff just washed away like all this stuff then maybe we just go back to the old stuff yeah and we'll know too because they'll get some good notes on that have yeah have him get some notes like i'll make sure that they do morgan says jeez i only had the sand you know no you know half as often as i had to before it stayed out there you know whatever that that's the big one this year is gonna be diesel fuel well yeah the more time you gotta go back and forth and it's more trans it's more yep so what i'll do is i'll tell the morgan to have his guys noted on time parents or to know when they load or whatever so that we have some of those guys the a j him um he's and he's they know enough by now that if they're spreading more sand the last year or less or you know how that product's working exactly so i we had obviously increased patch and i reduced guardrail after our conversation chris um kind of focused on rust must repair only and i had talked to ryan about that statewide he said it's crazy the pricing of um guardrail so we did i did reduce that one a little bit so the e-wrap can you just take me through that quickly so the e-wrap is if we build a 1.2 million dollar bridge um if that ends up being the cost of panello then our e-wrap our 12 and a half percent balance because we've been paying a little bit you know each year we budget for e-wrap we will be left with 88 800 and i'm saying do half this year and half next year since so do we have a e-wrap surplus currently is that what you're saying well because 12 and a half percent of 1.2 million would be more in 88 though right exactly because remember we budgeted for e-wrap okay well because here i'll show you but but i i guess we budgeted for the e-wrap that we haven't paid but that stays in the general fund doesn't it no it goes into the fund 89 for fema the okay so yeah okay so right here like last year or this carrier we budgeted 56 790 and there was a little bit left over from the 43 one that paid off pee vine and then a little bit towards yeah exactly so we've been budgeting for e-wrap each year okay and then make sense i was looking at going that's not enough to cover that it was not and um but the money we had plus this year's plus the 88 000 to get us that we'd have to do 44 and then 44 yeah okay so three is fine were you ready to go fish so 115 right along yep we're anticipating a what what makes it go to 130 adding the we won that you guys talked about adding the sidewalk money in there it already had increased um and and then uh per the capital fund and then you guys wanted me to add the sidewalk money in there so and our last iteration you were at we were at 120 because that would have been the progression of the capital fund and then you wanted me to add the 10 000 sidewalk so i put that in here okay i'm sorry do you have a question yeah what line you're on uh we are under public works uh right under or right just above the e-wrap the highlighted the 130 okay because down below you have sidewalk improvement in other public works third line down fourth line down right and nothing but good exactly because last meeting you guys asked me to add that 10 000 excuse a five-way rehabilitation fund i had 10 000 in there and you guys asked me to move it so that's why it's no longer anything there so the only thing that i see i also reduce stormwater catch basins um the only thing i see that you have to update yourself with is the spreadsheet still shows 120 not 130 no this one so you're you have 80 oh so that's all all right now i gotta add a line of sidewalks all right so that's all right okay yeah remember we have yes we have sidewalks we have the um christian hill grant that we gotta get done next year for that first mile section we have the um sand hill match money um we have the the sidewalk pleasant street sidewalk match and then we have the bridge on um watershed right yeah and i updated all those matching fund sets those grants that we got but i think i gave you that two of them will get done next year christian hill and the bridge right uh hope yeah well um i'll tell you hang on wait a second let me just tell you because christian the bridge the one there on sand hill sand hill p vine so for the um no watershed not watershed it's the one on p vine that you come down sand hill and we usually close the road there uh so christian hill paving grant has to be done by 2024 so um either it'll happen next year the year after we do depends upon the cycle how i get it bit out but hopefully next year that's my hope and um because that's not gonna have too much going on the 20 the 2024 you know yeah but true and then so anyways yeah and i did updated the transportation and i also use that number two in your packet to update the capital fund budget for you so you could see what the road you know your capital fund looked like and so i updated the amount so you could see what the grant was the grant match plus out of the r5 so um yeah the bridge is the one on when you come down sand hill but go back huh yeah yeah it's the one that always floods but i think we're going to end up writing a second grant to supplement that because it's going to be more than at least it appears that way now so that may not happen then i don't know i'm hoping it needs to happen this spring but they may supplement us sorry you know a lot bigger to a sidewalk pleasant yep we did get that grant it's on the um and is there a match on that yep it's on the transportation spreadsheet that i put in your box in your packet the church street church pleasant streets sidewalk the grand amount is 424 000 our local match is 106 000 and um so that's in there and i think i also included that in your capital fund that i updated the capital road spreadsheet so um so as far as public works was there any more questions on public works i mean yes the budget's up ten point well it'll be down less than 10.51 now because i'll make that adjustment and reduce um i mean a fair amount of that was just increased cost and yeah items a couple pieces of it is really you know taking care of some of the gravel roads and things like that that people have complained about and some of it i mean diesel and salt i mean i can't i think you're gonna see other towns that their budget's gonna go up by more than that we're really going to stay on top of the gravel roads because as i've been traveling them we've we've got a lot of roads that are grad graded down to ledge yeah i i want to and that was one of the conversations we'll have people about this arpa i still believe that and now that you've seen the capital um i included it in your packet with the capital roads you know projection there that we have enough money to spend 300 and some odd thousand on gravel roads i would like morgan a j to pick a couple of sections that we know are bad that are chronically bad and issues for us and have them rebuild underdrain the whole thing and put that out to bid this winter and get it done next year with arpa money because or with just capital improvement fund money because you're right we need to do that and we need to do it from the base up underdrain up just like we're gonna do christian hill just like um you know and we know what we had a bad mud season last year we know there's spots we need to address and without getting a project because i've been not been here a lot of years yeah in excess of 60 years and last year was one of the worst mud seasons but not where it's been bad before yeah it's true this is what people got understanding the fluke front of my house was always this thing it was like summer all all spring there was nothing wrong with that road the whole spring yeah but morgan and a j i mean they've driven the roads enough that they know that there are sections that need to be done and and we need to do what you've been saying which is from rebuild it and rebuild them correctly that date yeah and rebuild them correctly so i agree and i would like to spend arpa money for capital money to do that uh fire department i you would ask me about that i think i adjusted the wages a little bit um that was it i don't believe i adjusted their budget any more than that yeah the heat and some of those types of things but yeah constable i didn't touch um christina are going to meet with the new earth that we got a new share with this i don't know if we how are we going to do it but going from 57 to 70 and not having i mean i get asked all the time where's our constable do we get constable i mean we're getting i think that it's just a condition this way things are you know i understand but um but seeing a big jump like that and it'll be have to be an item that you put out for the voters i mean i think that people want to have regular policing in which case if that's the case you're either going to have to pay more money or go to the sheriff's department chris and i meet with the what do you call him yeah ryan the elect would be nothing um sheriff elect are left on thursday the intercontinental yeah we're going to be with him on thursday yeah so i i guess we can the piggyback on what paul was saying i guess at this point how i feel about the item anyways budgetary was is you know if we are going to go above 57 000 which it's not costing the taxpayer it's 57 000 right now it's costing you know 20 000 28 so you know we've over budgeted for that item for underperformed services i guess i i think if we if we're going to go above that if we are going to seek in this case 70 then maybe maybe we maybe we vote in a level funded budget at 57 and say you know do we want to go to having winsor county patrol x amount of hours a week numbers we can talk about yeah we could put a separate warning to say that'll be an extra right right 20 000 a year yeah would you like that and put it right on them to say they wanted to because the survey we did was really close i mean it was almost half and half but i didn't want to i didn't want to really say too much because we're going to meet with ryan and i guess he's got some ideas about smaller community policing um and having i guess what he wants to do is in a way i don't want to steal his thunder is um have like one deputy that would be assigned to multiple towns in one area so that deputy may be assigned to three towns and then those three towns kind of split the cost for or you know a weighted average of that time which i think is a you know for small towns like us i think that's a great idea and that's kind of what we did with the gospel for years we split it three towns and so i think he's kind of looking at that and and then i think maybe we'll get more of a because i we got numbers he may more say this is an 80 000 thing or maybe it's a 50 000 thing and i got my numbers from the current share so that are in here so people people you know watching and we'll know that what we don't spend this year doesn't roll over no no until the next year goes into the general it goes into the i've been asked that too we didn't spend it this year to come and roll it it we'll spend it goes into the different undesignated fund balance so yeah so it doesn't it doesn't it just sits in the undesignated fund balance but but we'll get a little more information on thursday and maybe we can make a better presentation to the board on yeah 14th 12th or whatever that next meeting yeah so the recreation department just changed the wages a little bit and um so obviously that it's one's an easy one like i said we don't need yeah so i have our 10 we're cutting wages at the pool i got our 10 grand in there but um i would say that i'm still i'm still concerned that as much talk that we've talked for the months we've thought that no one has come back with the pool and looked at by engineer joe and it's going to cost $219,000 there we're tossing stuff around well it's not their responsibility and no but they sure are willing to chop that out i know and like i said i talk to any cost to chop it out and i think i and i actually know i said two weeks ago at our last meeting that detri had spoken with gunite he came up with this crazy number she emailed him back and said you know these are the dimensions this is what we're looking for you know not that and then um you know she's she's been out so but it is something that she's working on she did have numbers from but this this group oh that group yeah this group through the the pool under the us oh sure yeah right here tonight i heard them specifically if you're less than uh 12 years old we're not worried about you right exactly yeah that's cool yeah and we're not worried about right and they're not because they're focused they're obviously all their efforts for the last you know several years and i i know and i appreciate that i think that's the Bethel rec center it's not the six man skate park center i know so hopefully um so yeah i know so anyways i left my personal beliefs there you go well i i get what you're saying and so we did include the money for skate park for servicing but the only thing that changed in the budget for the rec was any salary numbers it may have changed um parks and public places i didn't same thing didn't um i don't think i changed much here oh i didn't have changed some because you want to use seasonal work seasonal helps but i did change those numbers instead of making the parks person a full-time position um municipal office i think the same thing i had changed was wages um i did have to change i think computer just because i wrote in my notes numeric how much numeric was how much zoom is how much carbonate is contract labor except for we had left the contract the contract labor at ask for last year for maybe with all we weren't sure with all the money coming down the pike about grant writing etc i think we may end up spending some of this possibly with uh two rivers before the current fiscal year is out to get if they're offering some fees you know service for fees um we'll see and then i don't know what they're going to be doing i know i'm asking her to budget uh for read it to do some grant work and if the money so far the money that i'm asked the assistance that rita is providing npm services and some other stuff is coming out of the grant we were awarded but if that was not the case and i had to pay her we would pay or you know what i mean pay two rivers to do some of the work so we kind of we're using it for contract labor grant writing whatever we needed um and i left it in there at 10 because you guys had talked about um you know we still don't know for sure i guess if there's going to be is two rivers i've seen they have several ads out as somebody are we going to end up wanting to spend a few thousand dollars to join with another town for an energy coordinator or whatever so we kind of wanted to cover ourselves by putting something in the budget so i just left it same i'm not finding it but it's um under municipal offices it's one two three four fifth fifth one down it just says labor oh just labor okay yeah and then on my notes it says contract okay um so some of that was a little bit of a change but and i'm i'm wondering if we could put that at 25 at 25 000 in hopes of in hopes of our being able to participate if there is a multi-town project okay not that our share would be that i'm just we don't really know we have no way of knowing i mean i think at that point we should get the voters weigh in and say do we want to hire a or do we want to be a part you know like anything that's going to increase it this year and you know should we ask the voters if they want to be a part of paying for a regional climate coordinator or you know at 25 000 a year i don't know i i i guess i agree that i think new like that i think everybody should um be able to weigh in rather than we make the decision on our own i think we're talking that kind of way well i think the hard part is going to be so we're going to pitch it to the voters that we'd like to set aside 25 000 for a position that we have not defined for an amount we have not defined i mean it's kind of a could be a hard sign so i mean i think that 25 000 that i cannot tell you exactly what i think the 10 i think the 10 000 even though it may you know obviously it may not be the amount of income that you need for that position for our participation if it does come i think at least gives us a good starting placeholder yeah okay add to the conversation like for instance right now if somebody looks through it and they say at the town meeting you know what's the 10 000 for yeah we can say that we've we've put that money in there to include things like the potential participation in a climate regional climate coordinator or someone to bring in to do some grant writing it gives us the flexibility to use that money now if all of a sudden two rivers or somebody says hey or the regional towns hey we're gonna we're gonna do this thing and it's you're you're a piece of it bethels 15 you know and at least we can go back and maybe if it's only five we just find it in the budget and do it and in the next year we say oh 15 is for right there you know climate regional whatever but i think if you put 25 in there you're going to get people asking kind of what trice was saying is what's 25 for you know and for something that isn't has it happened yeah i appreciate that yeah so that's the unless unless we would like david saying unless you want to go to the voters and say you know there's been discussion about a regional position that hasn't happened yet but we would like to be um proactive with this and we're thinking that it would be something like 25 000 dollars you know we put it on a warning yeah i would you like you know i don't know the only difference is is the 10 000 that's placeholder is in the budget the 25 you go the voters could become zero you know or or it could be 25 or you know where does that money go and then doesn't happen it just stays undesignated it's an expanded fund yeah so it stays an undesignated fund balance which is um be careful by how big that gets yes and we like i said i this time it's never grown too high listen but you know what i mean the last couple years with you know trees looking at the budget well it'll be interesting to see because we have um i actually just got the audit draft tonight so i just i started working on it before everybody got here and uh so it'll be i haven't got to that far yet but we have to be careful because because then we'll have to make a policy and that's when you can start giving back to taxpayers because we have to be careful because that money even though at the end of the day you can use technically it for whatever you want i mean the intent is to use that money for that item you know now things happen sometimes you may have to borrow one to pay the other but to just arbitrarily put 25 in there knowing that maybe that position is not going to happen i just wouldn't have 25 that option yes then usually when i don't object to the to the town meeting actually discussing whether or not we want to fund that kind of a position uh i mean it'll be right now it's if we leave it at 10 in the budget then it's it will not be a special discussion it would just be a discussion as part of the full budget but if you wanted to go to 25 then yes no but if somebody asks the question then there is an opportunity to say that there have been conversations about an energy coordinator or climate or contract whatever we're gonna or we put that in here for these options that could be used to benefit the town either x y z and so are you comfortable leaving it at 10 um or i'm more what would you we had 10 last year right for this year we have 10 in the budget we're in yeah which we have is fine yeah and then just you know ran uh it's probably more like 21 000 now but like about every 21 000 in the budget represents one penny on the tax rate right now with the current grand last right right so just when you're thinking about things like that you know so we have 10 000 in the budget for this coming year and we haven't spent 10 000 does that mean we have 20 what does that mean 10 000 went into 10 000 there's a bunch they only have 10 000 right because what we'll do is well and it will have a better answer for you in a month or so once i get all the way through the audit and to tell you what the undis and native fund balance is and then we'll have a better idea because most generally you divv you'll take some of that money and put it into capital funds and you also will most if you have a good sometimes people will return 10 000 to the voter into the budget by and reducing the tax rate you put in this revenue line yeah saying okay we're going to add 10 000 to the you know reduce people's taxes or reduce the budget by 10 000 and if you have a steady sort you know undisignated fund balance and you can do that and we had no no undisignated fund balance for a while we owe everything oh yeah we owe that and that's and that's so we're slowly you know so i'll see what it is and that's a good conversation that we are able to have now was used to be oh we spent that we didn't want to talk you know before things came around and and if i remember right not the auditor but um it was recommended that we should have i think 300 000 of available balance to cover things like payroll and things like that and our towns always had to borrow that money so usually tell you when we talk about undisignated you kind of have to make it up if we have a half a million dollars of undisignated money you know 300 that needs to stay in the checkbook so we can write tax the other 200 then we could figure out do we want to add some things or do we want to kick some money back at the yeah i can ask them what the new but they usually do recommend that you have to keep a percentage and you're undisignated but then when we have one we'll actually write a policy about it because someone's like oh you don't have undisignated fund policy i'm like because we don't have an undisignated fund balance so then you do you in response to the question can we go for 1500 or 15 000 instead of 10 i don't want to add 25 i just want to add a little bit okay because we know that there are conversations that's up to you feelings about the conversation where we're going there but if it happens i'm not going to be the guy that says no if the town wants to do it fine i get i could i could vote yes lindley what do you think we currently have 10 000 in there do you you know gene's request is 15 yeah i mean i'm i'm fine with it i kind of see the same the same argument that's been being made which is you know is it something that we put to the voters leaving the 10 000 in but then kind of bring it to the voters much like we've been advising different committees tonight to do to say we have we have a potential opportunity to participate we'd need to have a budget in place in order to participate do the voters want to designate an additional x amount towards that i think that would be the alternate so i could i could be fine with putting 15 000 in to this budget i could also see leaving it at 10 and adding to the warning something about about the potential of this position and then leave it to the voters i mean i think in this case lindley we just gotta like you just have to put it in the budget because like the hard thing we're going to the voters would be is we don't have we don't have the answers to the questions you know i mean like it'd be one thing if we had like a job description this is going to be divided up amongst eight communities that so much but we but i also think that there's something to be said that and this is sort of jeans point is there are enough people invested and wanting to invest in climate action now that you actually don't need to have a job description some people will want that they'll want that information but you could say look this is something we don't have all the parameters of but if we want to be in the running to be a town included in this we'd have to have some budget set aside to participate you know and and so i think that the argument exists for you know we don't know everything but it doesn't mean that would be a reason not to include it not to put that out to the voters owning that we don't have all the answers because no one has all the answers right now but so yeah i see your point but i also don't think it should be the only argument against going to the voters so why don't we just for tonight why don't we leave it in there at 15 yeah and then why don't we all think about do we want to bring it to the next step would be like lindley do we want to put it on the warning or you know or do we want to put a non-binding resolution before the voters about climate change and energy is that a priority i don't disagree with you but that's been done year every year and i think you're trying to make the argument to us that this is more pressing than a non-binding vote and you're arguing against yourself now so i'm just no i'm i'm i'm i'm trying i'm thinking out loud okay well john did a non-binding resolution back in oh three years ago teen maybe yeah i think remember that year yeah i think you did it but he said which i think it was favorable at that time um john fago yeah but it was it was you know did it didn't have specifics to it and he didn't put it on the warning he didn't get it to us in time so he kind of did it at the end of the meeting it was other business yeah i guess if i my two cents is non-binding is put the 15 000 in the regular budget because we're also talking about the possibility of using this for other things which is if two rivers had a fees for service if all just for energy coordinating and i don't want and i don't want to lose the money if you use it for grant writing and i could use it for something else so if we put it out to the voters and the voters say no then we block the opportunity to maybe to do other things with the money so i i'm saying let's put the 15 in the budget for now and see what it looks like we'll just label it linley's slush fund 15 so that goes over well that's right that's right all right paul if you want it it's always that's right so i don't know if there were any other questions on municipal office town hall town officials listers i don't think i changed anything else um let's see social media i we might have beaten us already but when we're talking about the appropriations on the appropriations the um the stipends for town officials and on that is we had and i know some of these we've talked about and agreed upon um you know we we talked about the semi cemetery commissioner one and we talked about the health officer one and i know we talked a little bit about the fire warden and it was like the fire warden plus two deputies yep remember and i gave you just seems like that 600 to 3000 is quite the jump well i remember we asked just because we asked gary coogler remember i gave him you guys an email a couple of i don't know say the meeting the last month or so it asked gary you know how much time he'd spent how many miles he'd done and and got that number from him for the fire warden because he actually was saying okay 120 hours a year plus 500 miles i can also say the tree warden we've never called but that included people that included his two deputies right right well he was saying was package deal yes if he didn't use the money himself he would pay the deputies so because you'd asked him how much he'd used and and we're trying to base these on real numbers the tree warden has been the same and we have not called her for anything so and i'm sorry i don't want to so when we talk about the 3000 that is 3000 no matter what or or this is a $3000 budget that has 120 hours a year in it i you asked me because you wanted to be more accurate so since we were paying we based the health officer on $25 an hour you guys said that's what we should use for the fire warden so i talked to gary asked him what he used and then we estimated so this is uh so that's per hour that yes i just i forgot so we yeah so the three thousands of budget not a state it could be that's the thing is i guess you guys they've always been they've always been paid as stipends so i guess that's a determination you all need to make um okay the health officer has said he doesn't want the money um because he this is his donation to the town so we have a budget here 1200 but if he leaves we still need to keep something in the budget uh trustees of public funds $200 each um and then the select board so i think that the difference between the tree warden and the fire warden are makes sense because the tree warden hasn't been asked anything and is normally not so listers we've talked about that government operations i think we talked about that so um i again the appropriations and italics are just estimates if i've received an email with a real number i've put that note in the budget and made those so they're no longer italics um i did get an actual number from weight revalid ambulance uh steve webster so this is a this would be the number it's a point to one percent increase the prior years were point oh six and point oh three um last year i had budgeted um you know point oh i think and then i had budgeted oh a point oh eight uh for the past but anyway so this is the number he's working with the 159 168 we're going to receive an email saying that's what it is they were 21 percent increase that's a big kill who is um steve webster who is our representative david algegetti and so he but he just barely took over um i mean that's going to inspire discussions again on do we even want to be part of them yep and you know what what'll happen is dav will have to will be there to talk about it um i also will give you guys uh steve's email because um they are looking at some big increases they were also lucky this is a lesser increase than they had originally thought because some money that they had received from a federal agency they ended up giving it to them as a grant and not making them pay it back as a loan so i think that they're looking at several things not only costs for uh equipment and i don't know if they have to you know they obviously they have paid staff um but i haven't seen an awful jump one year it is so i'll have to um i will print out steve's email and give that to you guys because i know i know when we broke a hundred thousand in this town it would became a very hot discussion on do we want to be a part of white river valley ambulance and then what two years later randolph was having the same discussions because we even talked about what our options were at that point but you mean ourselves which was i remember right doing ourselves was gonna be like a quarter million dollars or something i was just gonna say you guys know how much it would cost you to talk about partnering with whirlton wasn't it at some point or something yeah i know it got pretty heated so yeah prepare for that and well we'll talk it's an awful jump for one year i can get steve's email and then talk to daval dragetti because he's attended some meeting so at this point he'll have well what happened years ago therese is once this discussion happened the numbers that they were proposing to us all of a sudden went down remember and and then they stayed on once they level funded but pretty pretty decent for the last couple of years now all of a sudden they're looking for a big increase again and well my guess is i just wonder if there's any pushback on this i don't know i mean i'll have d-mail steve he had a computer crash so bring him in next long from now so so so steve did we use to have a very funny info so we can see you do you will yeah that's i get him every month talking about oh you get him every month yeah so um i'd like to know what the 29 000 or 20 30 2000 dollars increases i'll give you an idea it's insurance and stuff like that retirement i'll give you their current fuel because i have a reason he said well they want to replace that green ambulance ambulance so i want his car yeah i know i'd just say it they would tell me he's he'd like to be enough of the select board member to get a new car we send he sends we send he sends me the financials every month so i don't forward them on you but one one left part yeah the last line on the last page okay so we're looking at last year's budgeted at 2571 426 and this year we're going to be at 2850 356 last year 10 um uh 28 well the 28 that was the i'm at 2798 the 2850 was if i added in the difference for the constable so if you just say at the 2798 yeah it's an 8.82 percent increase over last year however remember because we have growth in the grand list i'm only currently projecting um member that like i just said that was from the constable budget remember how i had two different columns one is the column for oh for the column with the words and yeah sorry yeah all right okay you know it's hard to figure that how but still so it's so it's 2 million 571 versus 2 million 78 98 yeah so it's still an eight point so some things that offset that as we have remember that's only for five years because we have the 54 000 every year from transfer station sale right um that buys it down and the grand list went up by over 100 000 right um so the grand list was just over just over 2 million and i was like 2 1 something but that growth kind of offsets a large portion of that so i think right now the way this stands recent i were fighting over the final number through phone discussion today but the way it is right now uh right here the way it was before any changes tonight was like a one one cent increase so this last year we were at 1.0624 and we're looking at 1.0692 so if we use the current grand list which i think is going to change to go up we're only looking at an increase over last year of less than 1 percent so while the budget looks obviously has gone up eight percent because there's growth in the grand list we're um you know same percent okay what else we want to put money on well we also need to take a little bit of weight now we we talked about this i know i can't be doing this because we're going all of a sudden we gotta come up with exactly one thing i think a chance of 50 000 that you have that's going to go away yeah yeah so you're really sitting at short 50 000 is a little over two cents so really you're at a three cent growth from this which is which is kind of the promise that we had made however or do we want to keep the three cent and put some two cents away for another day i guess could be a conversation the only thing i see in there that you know we just have to be careful as we have so many grants that we have received which is awesome but we just have to make sure that we have all the matching money and get that moving forward so if we ever want to put another 20 or 30 or 40 grand into that capital funds that we have that i will tell you to start thinking because i'm already thinking if we are going to spend more money it's gonna be infrastructure absolutely well that's yeah that's that and infrastructure we're going to need to spend on infrastructure he's right i mean it's roads we know we're going into the second phase of the water project so we have a handle on water sewer sewer richard's coming across some stuff that we need to address we did the pumps we did the generator but we're farming that plant's 30 years old so we're bringing in some people to look at things and um we know there's some things we're gonna have to do we also know with our recent sanitary survey that there's things that we need to do because of the epa regulation changes but the next big spending is going to be the town garage which i can't believe is going to be less than 1.2 million remember the um is there anything that's going to pop up when we do the next phase of the water sand hill that i'm sure it could be taken care of when we're digging a hole well we're gonna find jimmy hoffa and then we are doing all the underdrain all the storm water um we're placing a hydrant so we're doing everything that needs to be done there we're not doing sewer but it doesn't need it and we're also doing the water on bicentennial which needs it so you know we're dealing with everything on that remember this is about the what about the the fire hydrants that are still bagged they will be bagged until we complete phase two because of crystal drive okay um i'm just thinking about people who have fire insurance they have a hydrant right here well they haven't had that so if they have a fire and an inspector comes wait a minute you lied to us yeah we're not going to cover your house well hopefully they're they're near dry hydrant but um we we just can't frankly i mean this this water there it's just not properly pressured exactly and what state requirements never added crystal drive had no business adding crystal drive they obviously didn't do a pressure test they don't have the pressure a an engineer should would have told them no so that's where that proper pump station yeah so that's why we'll be going to that bond vote and that'll take care of that plus we have the 5500 a year that comes from the fire department the water department to replace hydrants and if we remove the fuel tank under the attached we'll lose the term garage loosely at town office we're also going to move that hydrant so and tim also had a schedule of hydrant placement i was thinking because i know he had that he did but but uh we're coming in another another season yeah and we actually made headway we were ahead of our schedule because we had so many hydrants replaced during phase one but yes phase two once we get the pump station online that will because we were replaced in two years yeah we did six or eight during the project so that will we're going right here in town that's not i know and we've done their water work to that yeah and i don't remember what the story is why that's not off the running i don't know that would be a question i have to ask richard because we did all those so i don't know where is it it's right here by the credit union oh okay that one there's a story there but i don't remember what it is hydrant we also get thinking this budget too you know there's a lot of uh american rescue plan money that we use for some of these we'll call them one time purchase but probably would have impacted the budget somehow because we had to buy them anyways right definitely don't even know it may only go up one cent our budget's probably gone up by half a dozen cents it's just we've been able to use some one-time money to kind of buy that down right definitely bought down utilities because that would have been a big hit for sewer the sewer budget for sure to replace the pumps and that's actually processes underway uh we heard from phil aramy and i think he's actually going to be starting and maybe this week or next so that's underway well we have found the and we have found some other things that need to be repaired just because some of those things are at the end of their useful life but well i've been there since the beginning and tim did have a um in the town and tim you guys paid for a capital you know plan for sewer so richard has that and he's been going through it and making notes beside it as he gets things looked at and inspected and getting prices so we can update the capital plan for that we know that one of the um we've had somebody come and look at some stuff with a digester and at the other um you know tanks so we had we're having some work done um so we'll just be addressing those issues but you're right arpamoney really saved the bacon for the sewer right yeah yep yeah absolutely yeah so so the bottom line at this point is that we well we have increased we anticipate increased expenses we do not anticipate that there will be any significant increase in property taxes not at this iteration of the budget no however there will be some addendums to the warning that could increase things that people vote those in like the library and possibly additional funding for the skate park that would you know there could be voting on that would be you know so yeah so so they may want they may say in those conversations well i'm willing to add another penny you know yeah i mean if this was a regular year we did not sell the transfer station we'd be looking at a three penny increase which is kind of since i've been on the board and followers right behind me that was kind of the promise to right to get us and you're done yeah yeah and it's and granted you know inflation tripled that but um you know we're still managing it pretty well um Paul when does the appropriation committee meet uh we haven't said a day yet the applications do on the first of december and then we usually meet the following week i've already spoken to the members so we just have to pick a day to get together are you seeing any application i'm bad oh yeah yeah yeah yeah we are we're finding though that they're not following what we're asking them they're not asking us they're not telling us how much they want some of them are giving us the information about how many bethle residents they actually serve us yeah um scan you're getting nothing if you don't you know but kelly's been following up with follow-up emails and phone calls and stuff to try to get it give them tough love i'm sorry you can't ask you can't get any of our money i think but they have been they're usually pretty i think a lot of things with those organizations is they're so used to sending out the rubber stamped version right they send every community probably the same letter you know um look you know where we're looking for a little more detail on ours you and everybody so that's good did you have something gene so i mean i think you know i think i don't want to say we got lucky but i think you know with i've talked to other people in other towns that are working on their budgets right now and they're all a little scared you know or talking about potentially having to limit some services to keep things in order so well they don't have too much trouble with uh select board meetings and chelsea anymore yeah i like you're the one person just decide right that's right right yeah yeah nothing nothing's legal but yeah god bless them um so i mean i think i think you know there's a lot to say that we're we're able to at least offer the same services that we have offered you know going forward and we've done it in a pretty reasonable budget increase and it's material insurance increases over sand well i mean again thank you know the the grand list went up um which thank god that's what saved our bacon um we got you know some one time money grant list and that with the transfer station sale and some and some are from when the bubble breaks yeah well the good thing is we're also rolling into a reappraisal so grandness is going to go up i think considerably no reappraisal and you know also too we don't people get don't hit the panic button because it will also help some people who are you know overvalued some people overvalued some people undervalued appreciation and you know things like that i know people get nervous um but um i you know so it's i actually we'd have a reappraisal in brookfield and i actually went and met them i got my reappraisal obviously had gone up and but i went and i met with the listers and the person who did the reappraisal and and it was a fair assessment and we i asked them about it when the land schedule was generated and this and that and you know what it was it was a it was uh i felt that it was a reasonable assessment i wasn't there i just wanted information and um but it was a new benchmark you know yeah i wasn't there to grieve i just wanted to know and i was actually very happy to hear like when the the land schedule was set and this and that and when they'd had one and and um but yeah so it'll be interesting to see how ours sugars out so um we talked about last time i think we just didn't have i think right numbers or well we did have the right numbers i just wasn't smart enough to realize that the math was right so the 162 135 plus the sewer money you know if you did the math i it was right the 162 135 is stuff that is going to the sewer uh motion to transfer 162 135 of the general fund surplus that's caused by the arpa money and we're going to transfer um we're transferring 162 135 to the capital sewer fund 20 000 to the highway capital equipment fund in the balance of 396 069 68 to capital roads so the math was right if i i just i don't know too tired out of it to realize so this is the motion so this what it does do is it leaves five thousand dollars for the website upgrade in the general fund so that means we need to make that website update happen before june and if it doesn't then i'll come to you and ask you to transfer five thousand dollars to something into capital improvements or something so that we can access the money um but so the math works um and then with that i also had given you in your packet a updated roads plan and that showed all of the grants that we were awarded there still is a grant out there that we've applied for that we haven't been awarded which is like the million bucks to do the one culvert on camp brook road in our 10 match but i don't know if we're going to get that um and if you look at the numbers it really i would encourage you to spend 300 000 or more to 325 on gravel roads let us put together rfps like we did after the april 2019 flood except they are going to be under drain the whole thing like a total rebuild let's put it out to bid this winter and do some of that in the spring now we don't have to spend all 300 000 this year but let's pick let's allow aj and morgan to make some recommendations on places that a mile here a mile there yes exactly where they dump 20 000 into that mud hole every year exactly let's do something about that absolutely and so maybe this year you say look you know what we're going to let you spend 100 or 125 because obviously we have other paved roads we have camp brook you know the six miles of camp brook that's under the subbase of christian brook yes full enchilada there and um so that's what we need to do and that's how you know so that's obviously our plan moving forward is our days of just skim coding stuff to end we've spent so much money on that over the last 10 years and so anyways so that's my recommendation is is do make this motion and then let me talk to aj and morgan and let's let them pick a couple of miles and get it out to bid over the winter and you know so moved get it none you have a second he wants to go home he's dying and a cook dinner for the girl still instead of busy day the town managers report um else yeah i just have one thing um i already talked to dave eddie about it um mr gothier on sugar hill road do you want to do you have time thursday at one chris uh thursday at one p.m i can send you the same email i'm going to send a tomorrow and you can check because to quote him he said what about that jarvis he said it was any work for pike he said well he must know something about roads we just have a little maybe after we get done talking what we're talking to um ryan that day right in the morning at nine a.m yeah oh it has to be at one oh much time i've sat with him but here's what i'm talking about you can take i'll send you an email tomorrow yeah i might be able to make that work right i'll email you that's it for um we're still uh running a bit short of staff but so if you call and pam and i don't answer um please leave a message it's not that we don't want to talk to you it's that we may be talking to somebody else so other than that i'm good okay select board meeting minutes from the 14th any amendments to it i just didn't mind now him if you want i could be there too okay perfect yay so i'm gonna write david bs yes sounds like he's more the merrier mr goth here i sent him a certified letter about some of the shoe sugar hill and he called dav eddie and then dav called me and then i sent the message in the meantime mr goth he called me back and his phone tagged so he at least has a he has some concerns about some stuff in that right away okay so any issues with the disarm the november 14th minutes nope nope move to accept his brain parking it's getting on paper we need to sign something on the amendment on our cemetery rules nope i think we just know i think it's just we write right on the base that it's amended just down in the line yeah yeah oh and then um so for the winter i know it wasn't a big deal when we get it um i don't know we did some time not last year what the year before it wasn't a lot i can't remember where it was we moved the forward meetings to 6 30 for a period of time it was in one month there i don't know maybe it was early this year late last year or something well you didn't coach last year so it was the year before i think we moved it to go was it december to april i don't know i can't remember lindley i can't remember doing it but not when yeah i don't know when does this game schedule end well it's not the game it's a practice i had practice from 4 30 to 6 so i mean i guess my my availability is i can get rid over here after practice which was like 10 after 6 and we can start meeting at 10 after 6 or or formally maybe asked to see if we could do it at 6 30 well i mean 6 30 is going to give you some breathing room to get the girls home and whatever so i don't mean 6 30 you guys okay with me being late i'm fine with doing that or i know when we did 6 30 last time for a period of time it was like for a month somebody had maybe recommended said that they thought that the half an hour later was better anyways but i don't remember what we've been did that for now january i can't remember what we did it for oh it was bad it was something about yeah i don't think i don't think it was last winter yeah well her calendar i know i don't remember it was it just one day yeah i don't know yeah that's fine either way so do you want to do um so how i mean it for the december and fall of january six through it'd be december january and probably early february i guess okay if everybody give that if everybody's decent with that yeah it's fine well to make it consistent i just do december through february that way i don't have one meeting in february at one time and one at the other because i might move yeah and pamel with ya because she's got a fix to sign out and if you make or put them at two different times so i'm okay with them extra half hour i get to stand back it's good i'm all right extra comp time yeah extra comp time it serves me so well long as they were good just a little bit more you're okay with that lindley all right thank you yeah all right anything else come before the board before we all run out all right just in motion adjourn move so i can okay have a good night everybody