 Yeah, welcome back to think tech. I'm Jay Fidel. It's the three o'clock block on a given Wednesday. And this is our show about global connections right now we talk about the US exit from Afghanistan with our regular host contributor Carlos Juarez from the east west center hi Carlos. Aloha Jay always a pleasure to reconnect and obviously you know unfortunately looking at a dilemma that we're facing here in the days ahead but we need to we need to talk about it we need to understand it even though we don't have all the. Well the outcomes yet but thank you and yeah. So let's put let's put all that aside for just a few minutes. And Shannon is a spokesman for wine electric. And she's here to tell us about a very interesting and community oriented program that one electric is doing starting tomorrow my right channel. Tell us about the program. Yes, thanks Jay for having us. We're going to be hosting some public vaccination clinics at our coffee power plant and the sorry Kamu industrial part generating station so these are vaccination clinics that are open to the public for our employees as well. And it's done in conjunction with the couple a Chamber of Commerce and local health providers. Okay, so tell me what way and here's the website. So I should be best advised to register for this and I register on your website. And then I go there pursuant to the instructors of the website so what do I have to do. How do I register. Well, if you go to our website, and that would redirect you to the Queen's health systems sign up procedure. So really, we encourage the pre registration but if you do just walk in, they'll take you as well. There's no charge. There is also no need for a proof of, you know, insurance. We really just wanted to make it as easy as possible for those who really need it. The West O'ahu area is showing the one of the lower vaccination rates in our, in our state so we just wanted to make sure that we, you know, partnered with the couple a Chamber of Commerce, the health providers and really the couple a, I think it's called the local emergency action network called clean. That's a Campbell industrial park area businesses that really pull together and wanted to offer these public vaccination clinics or, you know, really residents of that area and trying to make it convenient for them to get vaccinated. We really want to just do our part to lower the infection rates since right now it's just really, you know, out of control. So we just wanted to do our part. So these predictions are dire as to how much worse it can get. So it's very important that everybody in Hawaii gets vaccinated no exceptions no ifs ands or buts. So this is very helpful for Hawaiian Electric and Queens to do this. So can you give us a handle on how to get there. If I'm coming from, I don't know the freeway for example how do I get to Kahi. And how do I get to the, what's the second location. Yeah, yeah, well, okay, I'll try my best. But really to get to Kahi power plant, really you just follow H1 west all the way to until it becomes Farrington Highway. And you really can't miss it it's going to be on your right hand side and if you're coming from the the Waianae area. They'll know exactly you know where to go to be on your left hand side and it'll be in our parking lot and that addresses I believe 91-196 Farrington Highway. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. The Campbell Industrial Park is 91-196 Kanua Street. And then the Kahi is 92-200 Farrington Highway. So the Campbell Industrial Park will be set up in the front lawn, Kahi in the parking lot. Really, you won't be able to miss it I believe they'll be tense. Okay, well, we got to get everybody vaccinated. Carlos, do you have any questions or comments about this program? Well, I'm grateful to hear that because of course at the end of the day we need to be able to reach, you know, the communities as directly and as you noted this is a part of the island and the state where we've had draft lower rates. And you know for different reasons but certainly accessibility or where to go is one of them and so this can help alleviate that so I'm very grateful to hear this news and thank you for sharing that channel. Thank you. We're happy to cooperate with the partner really with the Chamber of Commerce so we're hoping we get a good turnout and just thank you for allowing us to be on today and share any information. All right, so this is tomorrow and is it one day or two days? Okay, there's August 31 is another day as well and then you can also come back in September. There's a date in September for you to get your second shot. You know, trying to make it as accessible and comfortable. So this is so you can get both shots through this program, that's great. Good for you Shannon, good for Hawaiian Electric, this is a real community service and we all appreciate it. We're going to come from far and wide tomorrow to get their shots. I hope so too. I'm hoping there'll be line people get vaccinated. Thank you so much. Take care. Thank you Shannon. Shannon Tanganon, a Hawaiian Electric company, thank you. Great. Okay, we're going to go to you Carlos now and we're going to we're going to talk about exiting from Afghanistan. This is a very difficult kind of problem. And, okay, we're going to say we're going to say farewell to Shannon. So, I was thinking about this and I came up with a few words, and I would like to offer you my words in the hopes that that helps our conversation. Number one is with regard to Afghanistan baked in, meaning that the problems in Afghanistan baked in for a long time. And the government hasn't been functional ever. And it's a kleptocracy some people say all that involves is stealing American money and putting it in the pockets of those who are in office. And this is a big problem. And then of course, you know you have a failure to govern a failure to make a social compact with the people so that's, that's one thing the second is is the term booby trap refers to the fact that Trump broke intentionally broke the immigration system as would allow Afghans to come to the United States under the special special visa program back back during his administration. Stephen Miller did that it was reported on great Rachel Maddow a couple days ago. And this, this is a burden that Biden has to carry because you know he's dealing with a system that was intentionally sabotage back a few months ago and then of course you remember that in the transition, Trump undermined the transition so so Biden lost two three months of an ability to transition properly between election day and inauguration day and he was behind the eight ball in terms of dealing with this and other issues. The third term, we can go through this later is the train wreck, and that refers to what is going to happen in the next few days. And the fourth term is, you know, a, a political meltdown, because of, you know, the notoriety the criticism he's had on this, and for him to get his initiatives through Congress because it's so dysfunctional and ultimately voter suppression which is going to affect the election in 2022 so we are really in a crisis mode now about all of that. I know you're not necessarily as pessimistic as I am, but let me address one of those. So the first one, the first one would be baked it. I mean, what is the condition of the Afghan government, country, social compact now. Yeah. Well, again, and a lot of this we're just seeing unravel, you know, before our eyes very quickly, but the bottom line is at the end of the day. What was the government in Afghanistan has collapsed it has fallen and it was always very tenuous and we know for years and years that it was only able to hold the area of Kabul and many other parts of the country were effectively out of their control. But in these last months as we saw it coming effectively by the time it was clear and once the US made it, you know, its own announcement of withdrawal. Things move rather quickly and let me say real quick I want to step back and say, on one hand the withdrawal itself was never one of them. I mean we phrase that the question of the withdrawal, it maybe it's not as much to debate. It's more and we can see a lot of either mistakes or missteps that have been made in a fair amount of criticism that is being made about that because on one hand it seems to be a failure of intelligence how would we not know that this, you know, the capacity to you know collapse of that is not going to happen. I mean, our intelligence community does planning to look at all the scenarios and so they should have been able to more effectively make clear that this could happen. On the other hand, I mean I guess you say this baked in and here. One of the biggest mistakes I think is that we look back 20 years ago what was the rationale for going into Afghanistan it was the response to 911 it was the safe haven that government of the Taliban regime at the time was providing to Osama bin Laden. Well, within a short time that mission will be morphed into nation building and human rights, you know, trying to essentially bring you know a change to this country. So we look back now and look, we've had 30 years of two major powers for Soviet Union before us 20 years of us effectively trying to nation build they're trying to create some kind of a client state. This has been an abysmal failure. And so that that much is clear. But you know, beyond that I think we also have to look at this is a situation very complicated because it's not just the US, and yet we are calling the shots. The US allies, primarily the NATO and other European allies. But you've got the dynamics of China, kind of in their interest because curiously we don't realize that the Chinese probably would prefer that we not move out so hastily because it's going to create a vacuum for them. These Taliban forces are likely to meddle a little bit more or maybe be more critical of China's support or not support it's, you know, China's attack on the Uighur minorities in Western China. And so there's a different dynamic going on there, but I'm more interested in that and want to talk a little bit more about the international angle, particularly how touching on your second point of the booby trap you mentioned Trump setting up, or maybe you know, effectively the immigration policies that have complicated, you know, the ability to bring more refugees. And that's certainly very true that that's a challenge, because you can't change immigration policy without laws, or the Congress can only do so much. But there's even more than that I think one thing that Trump did that also has cost us effectively negotiated directly with the Taliban you may recall, and did not include the government of Afghanistan, and did not include the European, and you know, other let's say the United States. And even today as we're looking at Biden's response. Effectively he has been taking a rather unilateral approach somewhat curious because he is after all you know multilateralist at least they came to office with that and his team of foreign policy team very much, you know, experienced confident although obviously making some mistakes here, but they are the paradox is they are very much the multilateral of practices you know many of the team have a lot of experience dealing with our allies. But essentially Biden is somewhat going it alone and this is where there's some concern and a lot of criticism coming from from many of the allies about rather, you know hastily the way in which the withdrawal has been going. And the fact that he has dug his heels Biden that we're leaving 31 August no matter what and you had an emergency meeting just yesterday of the key seven. You know that the criticism from the UK concerns from Macron and others about how it's going. So it's a very messy complicated situation. And then of course on the ground we have just dynamic changing. You know as we speak, and you know, we've also got some dramatic numbers I mean just in the last what nine days, we're seeing figures that over 80 2000 people have been evacuated. I think about 4500 of them are Americans they're expecting another 500. But today the New York Times is reporting there's about 1500 Americans in Afghanistan who are not, you know, either not been found or not likely to leave because it gets complicated many of them have families themselves that are Afghan and sort of mixed, and you know getting them out is again the challenge of the immigration policy that may not be set up to do it. So it's a tough complicated mess. And it's a you know again I mentioned this irony that you have a Biden rather going it alone somewhat and in a unilateral way. And yet, you know, this is where we're seeing a lot of criticism from from, you know, many of our allies. Yeah, well going and going alone means you don't have anybody with you when you want to negotiate, because there's the implicit threat of having several nations deal with you deal with the Taliban. You don't really have that there's nobody but but us nobody but him. So he loses, you know, the possibility of sanctions by several. Now he can only do one problem. Yeah, the next term is a train wreck and you mentioned just as you started the show. Yeah, that there's a train wreck starting already today, because the Taliban have now or the State Department has said the airport is no longer secure. So that Americans cannot come what what happened. That is really awful. Yeah, well again I'm just in the last hour I've read a report that's come out from the New York Times, and it is saying that the State Department has issued an advisory to those in Afghanistan to stay away from the airport again a very mixed signal because that's obviously the only place right now where we're having any evacuations, but that suggests that there's possibly an imminent threat of a potential, you know, violence, maybe a terrorist attack or who knows. Also the Australian government has issued a warning to its citizens there to stay away from the airport. Again, this is just an example of the dramatic, you know, things unfolding. We just don't know and it's hard to get accurate information at the end of the day, you know, journalists are one of the most at risk then and they have a limited capacity right now to get us the best information. So we're you know we're relying on little pieces of information here and there, but these most recent warnings suggest that it's a very fluid dynamic situation that might get uglier before it gets better we just don't know. Yeah, what was interesting is that Biden was the guy who set up the August 31 date didn't he. Well, it was good. They're taking advantage of that date. You know, I was just gonna say it initially Trump had proposed the deadline to exit by September 1 essentially you know the university or office the 911 I'm sorry 911. But of course once Biden is in power and then over these last couple of months, effectively that announcement was made. And here again I mean plenty of criticism of mistakes and you know missteps. How can the State Department, for example not be ready to close down an embassy. I mean we had to do actually 20 years ago. No, no, let me step back. Previously when the Soviet Union had invaded and basically, eventually when the Taliban did come to power in 94 they effectively took over the US Embassy was quite a drama, and it remained closed for years. I can remember in the early 2000s we actually had a white Pacific University or what we hosted a visiting State Department official who and right to become a piece activists after her resignation, but she was the person sent to reopen that tobacco after we finally you know, amen overthrew the Taliban. Well, again back to this question you know we see this hasty you know burning of papers and getting out of the embassy and you know recreating the sagas that we saw in, you know in past situation. Wouldn't they have been better prepared or begun, you know the process earlier and so there's some real concerns about that. Yeah, other than that I mean, you spoke about sort of the train wreck itself and here. Again, that's just, there's a really some moving situation that we don't fully know it sounds like the train wreck is already started the record we're already off the rails here. We don't know whether to go to the airport if we don't go to the airport where we go how do we get out of the country. Does that mean we have to stay around, even if we don't want to. And then of course is all these Afghans who are still in the country and we really haven't offered them a way out we're not. We haven't finished the job of removing Afghans who worked with the United States, whom we owe a debt. They're still stuck. So the Americans are stuck the Afghans is stuck. And I'm not sure. You know maybe even the American troops remember we brought in 6000 troops. They got to get out to a sequence problem. When do you take them out, presumably they're going to protect the others. It's like you know the the warning in the airplane where it says, you know take your mask first. So you can help your child right the oxygen. Okay, same thing here when did the troops leave. We need them. This is going to have some real drama at the very end. August 31st is Tuesday. Yeah, no no we're talking about literally within a week. So things are going to move rather quickly and again you know, we can expect that it might go very badly and again this recent imminent threat is an example. And yet it may not it may play out in a way and let's be clear, most of the American citizens have been evacuated by now in the last 10 days. We're told about 4500 and another 500 here in the next day or two. But there are a number who have remained and some of them out of their own choice some of them out of the complications that they have not been able to get, you know, adequate papers for their, maybe Afghan family members because there are a number of American citizens who who are, you know, let's say have mixed families. So it is complicated. And the end of the day right now today it is the Kabul airport that's the only exit point. Now once that airport does close and it will sometimes very soon. It's going to be interesting to see the dynamics shifting to the a land based evacuation in the in the medium term and not evacuation let me say more opportunities for. And I guess the borders to be, you know, allowing them to go out because that's the only other way if you can't get out to the airport now we know today the Taliban effectively control to the country and all the points. Well now we have a cop cobblers this is in the center of the country. So if you wanted to get to a border east west north south you have to travel hundreds of kilometers at least. Absolutely yeah no no this is a grueling task and it won't be easy for most. And those who are trying to get out are the vulnerable ones who are obviously going to be the potential target for, you know, harm and violence and then. You know that the Taliban and not particularly well organized so that, even if the leadership was his name. Barasata, the de facto leader of the town right now, even if Barasata says in one says one thing in Kabul. Some fellow of you know 200 kilometers away is may not agree and he may attack a convoy trying to get out of the country, whether or not he has been given authority to do that. And you know I was reading some reports, I guess this this leader you've mentioned has given an interview and talk, and he is sort of signaling to the women of course who are tremendous risk because now in this past 20 years since it's in more more open society women have been more free to go out in the street without you know covering and then to be essentially, you know, more open. Well, he specifically announced that women need to stay home until we can train you know the forces, you know a little better how to treat women I was like well good luck that's not going to be happening overnight and, you know, trust them. I mean, Barasata made statements, an interview in Emirates I think it was a few days ago where you're very conciliatory about women, and you know, organizing a civilized government. And no sooner do you say those things that then they unraveled all around Afghanistan. So, I mean I think I think we really have to take up with a grain of salt whatever they say right now, they have no credibility because of events over the past few days. No, absolutely no and there's no reason to believe that they're going to become you know, milk toast, you know, democracy oriented know it's going to be probably once they effectively seal off and in this evacuation process ends from the airport and they have control of it. It's likely to be a pretty grim outcome for for those who got stuck behind and couldn't get out. And you know there's a lot of concern because you know women journalists you know anybody working on human rights. You know, these are people that are going to be at very high risk of retaliation of, you know, basically death. I mean, when they did rule the Taliban came to power in 1994 and this was about five years after the withdrawal of the Soviet Union and its forces, and they had a very brutal, you know, regime, they had public punishments including floggings and amputations and mass executions. They, you know, these are not, you know, well, and while that was a long time ago again that that that you know that is what we have to look forward to and and yet things are also not the same on another level there's differences both in the region, and even in the US I would say in an interesting way where domestic politics in the US is not what it was 20 years ago. On one hand we know it's more polarized divided, but also difficult to sell the idea of you know what what we're doing there. So, having said that I think there's not a lot of support for the US to stay in Afghanistan know there's no big you know rallying you know that's, you know, another year another five years of course not. So, again, I go back to this the withdrawal and an exit of us is the correct policy. The question is how do you do it how do you do it in a way. And I think there's a lot of criticism that the US did not effectively bring in and buy in our most important NATO allies because throughout the whole time and that's why right now, rightfully many of them are very critical towards Biden and effectively we've got to we've got to handle not just the crisis there but a lot of damage consult with with with the allies. It strikes me strange as the visit Biden sent to the CIA director Burns over there to talk to the Taliban CIA director doesn't usually get involved in diplomacy. He could he could have brought him a Harris so who is already in Asia. That's right only so simple, but I guess he didn't he didn't want to put her in the, you know, in the, in the diplomatic engagement arena. But query what what what affected that have was that useful was it was it misdirected or useful and whatever came out because it was, you know, because burns and neither burns or anybody else said what happened. Well again we don't we don't have any concrete, you know results to speak to I mean it was quite a dramatic announcement because again as you said it's not typical that the CIA director flies especially to a hot spot and crisis you know situation as we have there. I have not seen again any of the outcome. And yet, on the other hand, it does signal that you know by sending a pretty prominent high official like that I mean it's a way of trying to deal directly with them but for what what are they gaining from it that's not clear. So I don't know if I would burns I'd be happy I hadn't been kidnapped. Yeah, that did present itself as a possibility. Okay well let's let's go to the next thing is worldview. I mean, I know, you know you wanted to talk about the, the world, the world's view of this, not only Europe and everybody because it's on the front page everywhere. How does this affect our image franchise. Yeah, and again it's in mixed ways I said earlier how obviously this has been a also a crisis with our allies and sense that you know we'd rather been seen as somewhat going alone or maybe not being as flexible as some of them would have like I think at the end of the day I brought them in more carefully to you know, understand the situation and then give it, let's say everybody on the same plate, and that has not happened, and you have a different situation and among the different allies. For example, again this meeting that was just brought together. At this point here I was going to look at oh well no one one thought was that you have for example that the British Parliament has had a lot of, you know, acrimony and criticism of this. You've also had the case where in France, the President Macron there. He is of course got his eye for a reelection next year so he's trying to be careful, not stressing that the EU cannot, you know be expected to the house or no to receive you know an exaggerated amount of migrants I mean, there is a desire to address the refugees and then those who know that may be clear, those who specifically work and collaborate with the NATO, you know forces that is, you know the translators and those who were, let's say directly, because you know there's a responsibility that they were basically hired and brought on, but it's a sensitive issue again throughout Europe about you recall five years ago now and then we you know had a lot of discussions at the time the major migration prices in Europe. It had a dramatic effect on domestic politics, and so I think the European leaders are a little queasy about that, and wanting to make sure it's more carefully planned now. At the end of the day, European countries are receiving many of these, you know exiting Europe, I'm sorry exiting Afghanistan. I just read in fact an interesting story today. Mexico, our neighbor to the south has just actually helped to evacuate some of the journalists and specifically New York Times and Washington Post journalist. Moving back to your earlier point about our broken refugee or let's say immigration policy. They were able to very quickly on a dime turn around and provide safe haven to this US journalist that who couldn't get out, let's say, even you know with us support. It's a curious little thing because, as we've spoken in other times US and Mexico at the moment have you know, help relations between the president, but Mexico is kind of getting a couple of little brownie points by by this move. But you have you have many of these exiting now are going throughout Europe, Australia is also taking some US is also going to be receiving a fair number. I think it's fair to say, many, many more who would like to come are not going to be able to exit and so they're going to be stuck in the new drama and even though it's dangerous for you know members of the press to be there right now. They can communicate with satellite phones they do communicate with course they don't need any infrastructure to do that. And there's this going to be some very tough. If not violent experiences in the next few days over there, everybody in the world will be watching. And so, you know, going back to the question of how will the world see this well, it kind of depends. Because we got more efficient over the past few days. We got better over the past few days. But I think going forward, we have tremendous risk of being embarrassed much more than we were embarrassed before. If there is violence at the airport or on the roads. The other thing is, you know, you saw the possibility that okay and ISIS will reemerge in the new Afghanistan and pose a long distance threat as they did before, like a 911. And you can say well, the new Taliban may not may not permit that they said they would not. I don't believe it. They may well permit it. We may have al-Qaeda and ISIS both operating in the new Afghanistan, and they would be directed against us and other countries. So that if that happens. It's another black eye for us isn't it. And again, a lot of uncertainty there. Now the world will be watching and trying, but we won't have the capacity without having any presence there. And even the idea right now of pressuring Afghanistan, you know, squeezing them because right now they've got a lot of some obligations to pay, you know, whether it's IMF loans and other financial obligations. And, you know, the typical, you know, international community response as well you squeeze them with sanctions well guess what the Taliban probably aren't going to be either cooperating or acting in ways that we might expect. And they might be, you know, simply able to weather it more. So things, I think it's going to be harder for the outside world, the international community to have influence and have the capacity to shape it so it's going to be it's going to be a tough road ahead. And again, we just don't know if it's very ugly very soon in these coming days. Let's hope that the worst doesn't happen but we're going to have to wait and see and see if rationality prevails as far as Sada is a rational person and he can control all the Taliban around the country to be rational. I would be well advised to do that because their money hangs in the balance. They will not be able to make friends in the country or out of the country without being civilized. But it's really an interesting question in our time. We live in strange times Carlos whether they will be rational. We were not particularly rational in this country, which which takes which takes me to the last question I wanted to open with you. This has all this effect national politics. You know, it has sucked all the oxygen out of Biden's priorities. It's made them look bad but it's also made them look bad and all those other initiatives. And those initiatives are hanging the balance as far as the elections in 2022 are concerned. So if he loses face to more authority lost space in Afghanistan and his and his initiatives in Congress has stuck. If, if not in whole then in part. And, you know, all these things go south on him he is his probability the probability that Democrats are going to hold on to the majority and either house is reduced in the next election right. I think more than anything it speaks to how we have to look at international politics, understanding the domestic impact it can have, or how domestic politics may shape it. You know, Afghanistan is a complicated story and it's fair to say that Americans after what 20 years now of very very difficult, you know situations in the Middle East Iraq and Afghanistan, don't have a big desire to want to become the global, you know, global police force anymore. And even, you know, under Biden and his, you know, sort of foreign policy perspective he is offered a let's say a view of making it a more middle class foreign policy helping you know the people of us. Well, this is going to be challenging to see if it plays out well, but bottom line is that with domestic politics more polarized and divisive than ever, you're going to see obviously some of the Republicans trying to milk this for what they can it's going to be a little dicey kind of, you know, like some of the immediate blame will be on Biden maybe for, for some of the mistakes and missteps. But at the end of the day, this is a policy that was basically over the last 20 years, and even in the more recent Trump administration, you know, it was facilitated by all of them. It was begun by the push administration. And then the more recent Trump administration carried out of course it's own negotiations directly with the Taliban. And so, and yet having said all that I think most Americans don't you know they don't look at the nuances they just see it as that what are we doing there. And at the end of the day if we see horrible humanitarian you know disaster which was unfolding. There's going to be a desire to blame somebody and then at the end of the day when election politics here domestic politics come in. It becomes very easy to try to make it real simple. It's not going to be a great go or make it seem real black and white when it never is it's always more complicated. But that's why we have shows like these to flush out a little more to understand that it's not all black and white there there's a lot of, you know, gray areas and uncertainty, and that's the world we live in. Biden is a very decent guy decent president moral man. It may not be a great president though and he may not be the president we need in these very difficult times, times where you begin with COVID and then you, you know, go into other horrible issues and existential stress from there, less we less we forget for one moment climate change for example, which the world is not doing a good job on so what's your level of optimism pearls, looking forward. And from this point of view of the Afghan, what do you want to call it pivot point here. How optimistic or pessimistic are you about this nation. Well, I would separate maybe the Afghanistan situation right now that's a lot of uncertainty, possibly, it's probable that we're going to see it get ugly in the near term and then we're going to see a lot of people desperate to want to get out. And that shows how the Taliban is it going to become a, you know, a bloody situation, or, or not, again, there's a lot of uncertainty there. The other bigger picture I mean again there's so many variables going on and you know whether I mean I kind of, you know, will this become the legacy for Biden will Afghanistan be the output process that he stuck with will it bring him down. I don't know my gut feeling is it's probably not that that a month or two from now we're going to see a different dynamic us will be gone effectively. There needs to be a continued process of getting Afghans out but will the Taliban cooperate will they allow borders to open so many others can go to Pakistan to other European countries. That remains to be seen and there's not a lot of optimism that they're going to be cooperating, you know, no reason to believe that. I think the Afghan situation is going to be grim. It doesn't look like it's going to have a nice easy outcome, but it may get better in the near term. Beyond that it's hard to say, you know, a lot of what happens in world politics we just have to always anticipate the you know this this crisis two months ago, could have been anticipated but wasn't. Here we are now dealing with the, you know, the most dramatic crisis certainly in a long time. You know, it's interesting we live in times when everything, all the variables are in play. And furthermore, that they can change dynamically I mean remarkably in a matter of minutes hours days at the at the max. Yeah. And so it's a when I ask you your level of optimism or pessimism, but when I ask you to predict what is going to go on that is a completely unfair question, and I am sorry. But hey, you know, we have to do it we have to do it but but no, I mean, I think of it as having as if you're playing like six test games at the same time you know at different levels with different people. And in that you know they're all in some ways connected. But boy, it is really tough because a moving part here moving part there. And you do need to understand Afghanistan is not an isolated single country part of a larger geopolitical agenda. It has a historical context that we've been involved with for some time now, and you know, given look in 20 years and look at how many of our of our military have, you know deployed there and you know going there to help this country, and now feeling obviously a bit of anxiety like what what was it worth it you know that was it in vain or what. It was a big dilemma for anybody to face. And, you know, Afghanistan is a very large country and it has a large diaspora now many have left and will continue to leave. So it's going to be a story that will stick with us for some time, we're going to have communities, you know, of Afghans that are going to now expand in parts of the US that are going to continue to have the legacy of this, of this war. It's going to be a pretty ending. And it's not, you know, we used to have words that we came home and had parades and everybody was happy. Those days are not with us now this is a messy messy situation. Well, I hope you will continue to cover it Carlos on global connections, I know you will. And I look forward to further discussions on your show about what is happening and all the implications that will follow. Thank you so much. Aloha, thank you, Jay.