 I think we've got our group here. It is past five o'clock the door Maria is back so we will call the December 1st 2022 meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission to order can we have the roll please Chairman Lane here Commissioner Sibley here Commissioner Barnard here Commissioner Gallo Commissioner Goon Commissioner Jacobi here Councilmember Rodriguez here thank you great so we do have a quorum we'll move on to approval of the October 6 2022 meeting minutes do any commissioners have any corrections or comments regarding those if not I'll entertain a motion okay I've got a motion to approve the minutes by Commissioner Barnard seconded by Commissioner Gallo all those in favor say I raise your hand and you posed none the minutes are approved in it you unanimously okay report from the chair I don't have anything in particular personally here but I do would like to take the opportunity to recognize Commissioner Goon who unfortunately is on her last meeting here so we we want to thank you for your time on the Commission and I really do appreciate the the often sort of counterpoint arguments that you brought and some different perspectives it's been it's been very good to have you here and we will miss you now let me go ahead and give you that well thank you very much I was gonna have closing comments thanking all of you I've learned so much about all of this you know housing and architecture and historical preservation all of that and I've learned so much from all of you and it's been a pleasure to serve here thank you all right thanks I do have a little certificate of appreciation so if you want a little photo op we can do that right up front it seems to be the thing okay next on our agenda would be communications from HPC staff liaison good evening I do have some additional items that will come up during prior business however just as a quick update we are finally have some staff on board and so I will be able to pay more attention to historic preservation and first order of business will be to put together a grant application for a preserve for a survey plan to get that to try make some progress on that so still getting you know one person is still starting next week I think a couple weeks so but we do have one a new senior planner on board so we're throwing her into the deep end on development reviews so so yes so hopefully that should start to free up some my time so I can put much more focus on historic preservation so that's I think excellent news for all of us it is so and we did have an additional we have had an inquiry about landmarking a property I don't know if that's going to go anywhere but it so stay tuned on that one that's pretty much all I have under just the general HPC communication okay wonderful thank you any commissioners have questions for staff at this moment all right great thanks okay I don't have the list but this is public invited to be heard so if there is anyone in the audience who would like to come up and offer a comment do we do we have anyone out there okay you don't think they can hear me come on I reset you thank you good evening Historic Preservation Commission Sharon Ellery 534 Emory Street sorry I wasn't here in October I thought we both needed a vacation from one another but then you stood me up last month well regardless while I was on vacation I could not stop thinking about you I was in Yellowstone National Park staying at the Old Faithful Lodge it was magnificent in the entire time I kept thinking how thankful I was of past generations that had the foresight and took responsibility to ensure preservation Old Faithful Lodge exterior represents the time period and the interior is a work of art the preservation and care that has gone into that structure ensures that many generations to come will be able to enjoy its beauty preservation is vital without it we wouldn't have national parks national forests open space historical buildings churches Cathedral small coin homes majestic buildings and historical neighborhoods a few weeks ago neighbors were cleaning out the home where their father lived and he too was a preservationist in the historic East side they gave me a box of papers and documentations from the founding years and reminded me of how we preserved the henna neighborhood back when then we were citizens for a sensitive revitalization our neighborhood formed because in 1961 Longmont City Council did not give the East side the same zoning as a historic Westside our neighborhood received a combination zoning of R3 and R4 that allowed up to four unit development in certain sections of our neighborhood and then in 1967 high density residential use permitted throughout the entire neighborhood despite the fact that 80% of the housing was single family after years of working and meeting on committees with city staff and council we basically did the heavy lifting and received our RLE zoning so here we are today one year from when City Council instructed planners to come back with some sort of historic preservation guidelines but not on the same level as historic designation our neighborhood gave the city planners a complete guideline and to this day nothing has happened there is a proposal that's being worked on that would be a blanket zoning for the historic East side and Westside but that's doomed the day it comes off the printer the East side has been preserved for close to 40 years the West side has a different vision we helped save the Carnegie library when the city was selling it for a dollar then we reuse these signs to make signs for in front of homes for carriage rides that ran the week before Christmas for the next six years we are preservation what I'm asking you do tonight is to please make a motion and and second it and ask to have a conservation overlay zone for the historic East side and send it to City Council you have the ability to preserve thank you thank you seeing no one else in the audience we'll go ahead and close the public invited to be heard and move on to new business which is planning for the coming year good evening chairman so this is the item really to start thinking about 2023 so moving forward in terms of priorities for the year wanted to propose the question of how you would prefer to go about setting your priorities how you go about wanted to go about setting your priorities whether it be in a regular regular meeting or doing a retreat we haven't done this Commission has not done a really focused planning retreat since 2021 so wanted to present that item to to the Commission for consideration and to discuss as a business basically a business item to discuss another option another item that would could be hers should be considered either as part of an agenda or part of a retreat would basically be a refresher on open meeting rules etc as we have new Commissioners coming on board and just really kind of refresh everyone on kind of what the rules and guidelines are and and that could either be incorporated into us into a meeting with our city attorneys coming to just kind of brush everyone up on that or as part of a larger retreat so wanted to pose those suggestions and questions to the board for discussion or commission I should say right as as always I have my own opinions but I will defer to the Commission to if anybody's got any thoughts or questions Commissioner Barnett get you there no you are seat three so I took a look at the when I first came out took a look at the retreat minutes of and from 2021 and I've just found them to be extremely valuable and I think I've always been in favor of those of those types of ways of dealing with planning issues of taking that because it takes time to do something like that it's a big time it's a big time investment but I think it produces good results the only thing I would ask is that if we do something like that that we have come out with we came out with clear points in the 2021 retreat and I'd like to just see that that how that the points be extended a little bit with timelines on them because there were like seven or eight points but you know when would we do each one and when would we accomplish each one because there's no way we can accomplish all of them at the next meeting that's that's and so some of them just get get laid aside until some time when they just might come up again and of course the business but if it's part so part of a plan of a retreat I would support would be one that had specific timelines coming after thank you other commissioner I'd certainly be in favor of a retreat if we can all get together and make a time I think between the goofiness of the interruptions of you know the pandemic and then new staff and most you know many new commissioners I think it would be really valuable to just kind of sit back refocus plot out some courses of action and and have some resources available to guide those courses of action when we say well we'd like to do this and somebody says well it can't look like that it has to be you know to be steered one way or the other so that we we can be effective I think that would be very valuable so we can if we can what so what would be the the I mean we'll have a meeting the first part of January that's typically the you know who who's new new officers new you know ratify the bylaws so on and so forth so I would say sometime you know late January or at the latest in February would be an appropriate time to to have that happen it seems reasonable I'll I can work with Maria and we'll see if we can identify meeting space and such and come up with some possible dates it seems like the last one was May and I don't know if there was any magic to that or that's just what worked out yeah I think it just took that long you know to get every yeah so earlier would be better you're right all right so what I've got on that great thank you any other comments on coming up nope all right okay well let's go on to talking about a few things from past business update on commissioner interviews I guess and for those I will recuse myself since I was one of the interview ease so I think that means commissioner guy you you have the floor as the coach the vice chair of the meeting those interviews I'm not sure what I could say is there someone who attended those interviews I will I will give you the floor well one candidate was moved himself from the list before our interviews one candidate was unavailable for the interviews so we had two candidates for two positions and they both have experience already and I think they were both well received but I haven't heard the official rules as determination as far as then the board this year commission sure so staff me I forwarded the recommendations of the interview committee to the city clerk's office so commissioner Lane and commissioner Barnard you should be either if you haven't received an invitation for council interviews you should one should be forthcoming so we did recommend that council interview both of you for regular commission the full commissioner position Mr. Fenster was unable to attend his interview but we did interview him back in May as part of the mid-year nomination cycle and we did find him to be qualified as well so we did recommend that he be considered and interviewed for the alternate position so that we would have an alternate and I think council is doing the interviews on next Saturday not this coming Saturday and then it'll be on a council agenda and they'll make appointments and that'll be in December I'm not sure what that agenda is but believe us December 10th 10 okay right okay you should be receiving them at some point because I know I know I know Michelle was frantically putting everything together this week okay great so there is no real action here right this is just a discussion item discussion items yeah okay fair enough well unless anyone else has any other comment we'll move on so that includes everyone that's here obviously commissioner Norton is absent but she's still in the commission commissioner goon seat would then be filled by Mr. Lester as an alternate or Fenster sorry you're yeah yeah so I see so you're I'm the alternate right now okay and then Mr. Fenster would take mine and then I would take Terry seat is regular right okay fair enough great okay next item is the Dickens barn what do we have for new news on that so I'm still working on it we are staff and which I would be the staff is reviewing the site plan and plat for this project we are the applicant is still planning to dedicate the barn and some adjacent properties to the city so the barn can be preserved I'm still I'm working with our legal staff to determine the best mechanism for doing that so we're just working through the procedural issues at this point so once all of that is is finalized it would probably be in the first quarter upon approving and once the final plat is fine is finalized then we could look at pursuing additional grant opportunities to further for the further rehabilitation and stabilization of the barn part of the dedication would include a basically a cash and leave dedication as well to specifically for stabilization work from the developer so will we see them back here at all do they need to come back for any kind of a final approval yeah ultimately you have to make a action on because the plant well ultimately the city council said HPC has to approve the preservation plan we didn't really define what that is so we do envision that you'll have to take an action on that okay but but that it's essentially a more or less a done deal the Parks and Rec has already accepted we hope it's done deal okay that's done I think preserving the barn would be the his the ultimate preservation plan from staff standpoint right okay questions from commissioners no yeah I'm is there any update on the status of the outbuildings and the rest of the property I'm not at last time I asked about that that was still premature but I was have you made a determination on that well the original farmhouse and some of the other outbuildings are underneath the future 711 so they are going to go and then I think the only other ones there was a chicken check that I think is pretty much collapsed on itself so as of now it's really leaves the barn that'll be preserved so as you know what we originally presented if if we still want to do something symbolic for the original farmhouse that potentially is something you could still consider they were proposing outlining the foundation I think in the parking maneuvering areas and maybe doing a couple other things I think there were some commissioners that that you know that maybe that's not the best way to do it but we can certainly discuss that when it comes before you okay then let's move on to the next item which is HBC code amendment status and looks like we have a kind of outline Glenn here to discuss thank you mr. chair and commissioners recently I had a conversation with chairman Lane and talk about the code amendments and we've had some good discussions with council an executive session and public meeting but I think I realized that maybe we shotguned a whole lot of things that everybody and it got to be maybe a bigger project than what we had originally or what HPC maybe originally envisioned so I thought it might be a good idea to kind of go back to I think it was 2021 and it started in the retreat where you were revising the code and I took directly from one of the agendas of your meeting what you felt were the major issues and then I thought I could walk through these and then say our attorney that worked on it identified some key legal issues staffed through kind of our wants in there and there were certainly some things that came out of council so I'll walk through this I thought I'd kind of lead you in a prioritizing the exercise to say what are the key things with the idea of let's maybe hit your really top items first and then perhaps as we do a more overall a more thorough overhaul of the land development code we can do some of the other things and then my tent is I've talked to our city attorney about it he thinks maybe it's a good idea I'll go back to city council at some point and say do you agree with this approach to address these things in this way maybe more of a smaller amendment but I know I heard from HPC that you had some priorities probably around demolition but I thought I kind of walk through this cheat sheet that I provided for you have up on the screen and the first thing was demolition by neglect I didn't put these in any kind of order so don't get biased by what's number one but there was certainly a concern that just somebody neglecting their historic property would just succumb it to being torn down so how do we kind of halt that there was a feeling by HPC we need to define what's an extraordinary historic significance you know that that was a good call because our attorney said the same thing we need more criteria of what is potentially historic we added in we do identify in our code right now we talk about archaeological significance but we don't have a definition for that and I think the big one was revised the demolition review procedures right now I think it says anything in the original town site and then the code also says if we have a survey that identifies something is significant outside that area that potentially it would go through a review process and right now the code the process is it gets reviewed by the liaison and a council member which I think would be our council member Rodriguez would look at that and decide whether that demolition should go up to the HPC or whether it's should it's not significant enough and maybe should just be approved as far as for demolition and HPC thought it ought to really just go to the Historic Preservation Commission so that's really I think the meat of that matter there was a question about city-owned properties and do the same process apply to them I think we had recently gone through the silo designation that was brought forward by a resident there was a concern by the HPC that maybe we restrict the ability to revoke your designation and if you're a landmark property locally landmarked you should stay that way and there shouldn't really be a process to undo that that was one thing we didn't really address in our code enforcement or penalties if somebody goes ahead and ignores the code and you know tears down a property that's potentially been designated and then I think there was something about notice of certified neighborhoods if we have a certificate of appropriateness or you're creating a new district or you're creating a landmark that we had widened the scope of that notice I left a couple of blanks because maybe I missed a few if some of you have a better memory of that draft code or do you think that kind of hits the big ones thanks I think I think that does I think you had a really good summary of the demolition piece for sure that I think that really captured at least what I recall from from all those discussions right and some of the ancillary stuff is filled in in the time since right so what what I recall from that those earliest of meetings was the very first item of importance was just revising this demolition code because at currently it's a really low bar for somebody to take a building down and once it's down it's done and we felt like we wanted to get that bar raised up a notch or two or three and so relative to demolition by neglect and the demolition review procedures and the associated enforcements and penalties I think that's where that's where this all started and then other things have sort of conglomerated on to the process it's a definition of Mission Creek and part of that certainly is well we did bring in outside counsel who identified some legal issues with our code the way it is right now really having to do a due process which was if I have a property that's in the original town site it's 50 years old I don't necessarily know that and I don't know that there's potentially land use restrictions on it so that started a whole nother train that was how do you do that well we do that normally through zoning and that's where they created the historic preservation overlay so that in those areas we've created an overlay so that if we're rezoning your property you're aware of what the rules are so it really grew quite a bit and then as I mentioned before they identified just being 50 years old maybe isn't enough maybe it can be a little bit tighter as far as what those criteria are and then we added on oh well while we're at it why don't we look at the certificates appropriateness and is there a staff level versus an HPC level and and while we're at it let's just move the whole thing into land development code because it's a it's a land use process so then we have this great big animal so what I thought we would do and and maybe it's not going to take long is what we normally do when we have a list like this with with a group or a board what are your top three and what do you think would be as far as timing wise the most important not that we're going to ignore them all and then our hope is we can kind of come up with an idea of how to kind of move forward on those changes talk to council about it and see if they're willing to go that direction and then we could be very close to addressing some things so you've got nine eight if you were to pick your top three we can just go around the room and and see what they are that is agreeable okay I remember back in them in that retreat that we had when we were talking about demolition by neglect one of my major concerns was east side his dark neighborhoods are is a it's a it had been in affordable neighborhood so you've got a lot of you had you do a lot of poverty there I live there and I owned my home forever before I could fix the foundation so I'm not quite sure how that reads you know when we're talking about a developer purposefully neglecting an old shed in the backyard that they don't want to use anymore and they want to tear it down and so they think that they can get away with something versus somebody who just can't afford to fix the old shed and they're kind of waiting until life changes and that you know it becomes the priority kids are out of the house or whatever it is and so that one really bugs me I know I'm leaving because I live there it's been my life I paper things as they go along I'd save a buddy and then fix them but priorities are always you're constantly balancing them and for us as a commission to determine because you live in this house we get to set your priorities bothers me so just FYI and and I might add there's nothing to say you can't come to one of these meetings and express your opinion during any of these processes so please you are welcome back commissioner partner looking at this summer and also looking back at the May 5th memo on what the Commission's ideas were made for 2020-22 and then also my memory of the retreat and also the recent joint meeting with City Council demolition seemed to be a fairly big deal and it was the one where there didn't seem to be good communication back and forth between the city and staff and the Commission so I'd say that if we want to start I would rather than have three things I think we've there's enough under the issue of demolition whether it's here you've you've got demolition procedures include original town site removal is on and council member review the main memo you talk about demolition permit review applicability procedure and criteria that's I mean that alone I think would take through the end of the year to resolve just because it's tough they're tough issues and I think if you if you try to my feeling as you try to tack on more stuff then we'll lose our focus on what appears to have been a major issue for us for the last several years thank you other commissioners pressure that I can get you all right commissioner guy I mean I I've been on the Commission for I don't even know 10 magically for like 10 years now I don't know how that happened but I remember when we were talking about that when this when I came on to the onto the Commission so it's been a long long time and and I would say I mean to be honest I think under the enforcement and penalties part of it you could also just you know bracket a lot of these demolitions because that's kind of the heart of it is you know the demolition might neglect the procedures the oversight of it is a big part of it is that you know if you tear your house down it costs like 50 dollars it's like a $50 fine just even if it's on the National Register it's you know and locally designated and everything else that just you know until we have a piece where there's actually some consequences for doing that sort of thing it's it's you know we can put all the codes you know and definitions of demolition might neglect which generally speaking is never going to be somebody you know not painting their house in time it's going to be yeah a developer buys a house lets it sit there for a couple years till it falls down so that they can scrape it so for me that the number one issue would be the enforcement and penalties which would actually bring some action thank you simply here sorry oh it's like red means go instead of green I'm sorry I'm no I was gonna say I that yeah demolition is sort of the top thing too because really once those places are gone they're gone and so yeah I think that is probably big my list I'm but I don't know how it in going through those kinds of things like with the overlays and zoning and all those kinds of things I would imagine that all has to tie together so in my head I'm like okay there's your basket it's full so yeah so I guess I'm with everybody here with the demolition is kind of being a priority thank you commissioner Jacobi thank you yeah I agreed demolition should be number one it just just yeah irreplaceable loss is our priority before we get the rest of our stuff in order here so revising demolition review procedures I think is definitely important demolition by neglect is a very thorny issue properties rights I agree with Terry is very important but I do know again there was a property on Atwood about ten years ago one of the original colony homes that was stripped down to basically framing and then left for two years and then they decided well we got to build something here and because what they had was no longer usable and so demolition by neglect is a definite issue I think it's thorny but I think it can be worked around but that's such a big issue right there how do you define that getting the lawyers involved that making that part of it is is going to be yeah that's going to be enough for you to chew on but again enforcement and penalties is part of that because you know if we don't have reasonable teeth behind all this everything you put on papers kind of they'll laugh it off and getting back to that includes revocation of designation I think you could make a simple penalty for revocation of designation I and I don't know what amount that would be but I think you could just include that and that that wouldn't take a lot of brainpower and that would give a little teeth to people maintaining their historic designation again I think when we looked at that subdivision of that the farm property a couple months ago we had really no saying it because they could just revoke their designation and subdivide if we didn't agree to some sort of plan for them I think if we had a little bit of teeth behind revocation with a little bit of a penalty at least of some kind I think that would help out so I think all of those are kind of intertwined and connected but that would be more than enough right now revocations in your purview that that is something that has come through HPC it's it's not something somebody can just decide and let it go what they were asking on the property that Jennifer worked on is can we move those buildings they were moving historic buildings right so yeah there once you're designated they have to come back to you I think what the HPC was thinking is let's let's shut that door perhaps if somebody's a landmark so that would be a change that'd be a pretty serious change all right thank you yeah I would just wrap up by saying again I think if you're gonna obviously you see the demolition is the big one it was what started this all as I mentioned and then I don't know that you can parse out anything associated with demolition and handle only that you just have to take on the pieces that include demolition so that means talking about demolition by neglect talking about the purview procedures talking about the enforcements and penalties and coming up with a comprehensive direction for that component right and and I think if we can if we can do that as a focus and we can get some surveys grant surveys you grants for surveys started and then have a retreat it feels like we have the retreat can handle the bigger pictures because we're not gonna handle we're not gonna we're not gonna make it you know we're not gonna create an overlay district tonight it's not that's not gonna happen that's a huge project that needs public involvement but if we can get some direction on the demolition piece and really dial that into what we we want to accomplish and then there's been a lot of work that's been done already so I think it's really circling back putting this together understanding what what city attorney perspective is on what has already been drafted and then getting this commission to refocus on it I think that I don't know that it should take you know a massive amount of time right yeah and I think the key to the demolition is refining that criteria to so that was kind of part of my discussion with our city attorney May so I think we could do something a bit scaled down that would address the demolition part of it but again we we have had this discussion with council I'll return some way back to them and see if they agree with that direction and we'll hopefully address the demolition much quicker than the whole rewrite moving it into the land development code right that was gonna be my question this would not be this would not involve any kind of move into the land use code at this point we just do we just revise the ordinance and that's it for now yeah and in my mind I'd still work within that chapter 2.5 of the municipal code where it is now but I appreciate the conversation and it helps me because I was just coming in as you were doing that so I'm just going back through notes without any flavoring to it trying to figure out what was key so it did kind of blossom into a very big project so I think this might help us get off the dime and at least addressed I think your principal concern so I appreciate that great thank you any other commissioner questions or comments perfect thank you oh yes I would also recommend incentives we you know we don't I'm not creative enough to come up with what people want or what they like other than money you know which we have the tax incentives so you know something that that would make people want to not demolish their homes you know carrots thanks right commissioner Barnard yes one thing I think be helpful to me since you're in the early stages of preparing what you're gonna do here is if we had some comparables we don't have to necessarily invent the wheel we have an old code a lot of coals have been revised since then neighborhood county other other cities in the county that might have specific ideas that they've perhaps more recently adopted into their codes and just going through this briefly I just saw that boulder has a one-page explanation of what a demolition is it's one page with pictures and if it meets that criteria it's a demolition then it probably has a lot of other words to go along with it but it seems pretty simple we don't have I don't I don't think we need to limit ourselves to the county there might be some smart cities out there that you might know about sure that like Austin Texas or Madison Wisconsin or others that are comparable cities that have been through this process I know it doesn't take much searching online to find a lot of historical preservation code references and I think it would be helpful going in if we saw what you're proposing and how it fits in with what the general tone of these types of solutions is not that we can't do something unique but let's see where we are with respect to others because those others have also survived the private partnership and the public partnership issues to get where they were sure yeah we're certainly not unique but I think just about every city in Colorado at least has a historic preservation requirements yeah thank you and and I do remember that I think planter Schumacher had brought yet a couple we've done that already we can handle that we can find something in a fire right might be as much work to find it as to find it again but that's how those things go excellent thank you very much yeah thank you appreciate the effort okay we'll go unless there's any other comment yep just thinking about Terry's comment about carrots rather than sticks which is always a much easier way to approach things another carrot something I brought up multiple meetings ago was the certificate of merit and it's it follows kind of the federal rules of as being making houses notable and I know other cities boulders use it a lot but if it had some carrots attached to it maybe we can't give tax breaks the way the rules are written but maybe we could forgive permitting fees city permitting fees for in exchange for some control of development of the house so it's just you know but the certificate of merit we could put some carrots in and use more because I don't think the city's used it very much here it may be mistaken but right now it's a worthless piece of paper that says nice try buck oh but your place isn't landmark and I think we could do something with that mm-hmm so I like that idea right yeah it's if you don't hit the landmark then you get a certificate of merits kind of yeah so basically a landmark light yeah I think we actually talked about giving someone I can't remember maybe maybe it was in a I think actually it was somebody that we ended up the commission decided to landmark but there was discussion back and forth about whether it was worthy and it was sort of on the edge and that was something that we were talking about as a you know potential stepping stone of encouragement there's something I mean I think there's there's opportunity to throw that out there discuss it and try to figure out a way to but it would be good to make it worth something more than just a nice try stamp right I mean because everybody knows what the reality of that is all right great thank you thank you for the comments all right we'll go ahead and close that portion of the meeting and then we are on to just comments from the HPC commissioners commissioner goon I'll just reiterate it's been a pleasure working with you guys and getting to know you all a little bit and it's it's been fun thank you for all of your knowledge and for listening to me kindly Commissioner go I just wondering if you knew whether you were gonna get any scholarships for the CPI conference in February for commission members yeah I'm sure we can we do have a pretty healthy budget as far as for training so I don't is that what we call them scholarships for you can actually apply for money to give scholarships to commission members registration fees oh well if we can't get money we'll find it okay is there and is there maybe a possible head count of people interested in them yes Suzanne Doug it's a history Colorado's yeah there's some fun ones and some very highly technical let's talk about you know stuck oh okay you keep doing that to me one of my first meetings there was a discussion of a brochure and I know it went back to staff and I know you've been short staff I think you use Lewisville was one of the examples that the Commission said they liked and I was just wondering why I've heard anything about that at the last few meetings and I was just wondering where that stood as far as staff time staff work it's I remember I think it was we were discussing a historic preservation plan of which Lewisville has done and then they've collapsed the major points into a handout so I think we need to plan first and that's something that we are trying to find funding for through our CLG so but it's it's definitely a good idea and we did like I think Lewisville did a very good example of what a plan could look like so the short answer is we haven't done anything but it's definitely on our to-do Commissioner Jacobi all right just to address Sharon O'Leary's concerns I mean she wants us to make a motion for a conservation overlay zone for the historic east side I've mentioned that before as a possibility and we had the RLE one zoning that was restrictive and did help preserve the neighborhood for a long time I think it be easy to seems easy to me very being naive and not working through all the channels but to just reinstate that until we get somewhere but I think that would take energy and time away from making the larger conservation overlay that we are trying to work on and we were the last time it was presented it was going to be individual houses and in the joint meeting with City Council I think everybody agreed that this would be better in districts rather than houses and I'm just wondering do we have any update on when are we going to get another presentation on where that's going at or where is that at now but where is what I'm sorry and that the proposal to make a conservation overlay of just of the individual houses was pretty much done to buy everybody but where is that at now are we looking at making districts and or should if we are looking at districts I don't think we should pursue Sharon's suggestion as that would be just taking time away and valuable resources from making better districts but if we're not looking at districts I think what she requests has some merit and maybe we should pursue it so I'm just wondering where that discussion is at now yeah so that's where the historic preservation overlay came from right so and that's the reason why I want to have this discussion we don't necessarily have to do that to initially address the demolition issue right now our code does have conservation districts and it's really geared towards a neighborhood that wants put special rules in their neighborhood and it requires a certain percentage of everybody to sign on to that so that is a much bigger deal and it is kind of geared towards a community doing that working on that and not necessarily the city coming in and putting in a conservation district so it is a much different animal now part of the code amendments were referencing design guidelines and that's something we told council we would do I think that addresses part of the issue but there are some yeah some of these beginning code amendments that need to happen first and then we do have money in the budget to do the design guidelines as far as appropriate additions in certain areas okay all right well maybe not as heavy-handed as a conservation district but I think it's it it would probably address a lot of the issues I think concerns all right I guess it depends on how you define the conservation overlay and what you put in it you know how heavy-handed it gets maybe I'll talk to you some more about that again and after the meeting and see where we can go with that right thank you and might just add I think that's the perfect thing for a retreat right that's the perfect so we can really talk just in a more fluid way hash things out talk about what directions the Commission really wants to spend time on so I hold on to it for sure any other commissioner comments no all right I will just to conclude again by thanking Commissioner goon for your time I really do appreciate your time and your perspective it's it's very good to have different perspectives on this commission it makes it a richer end result okay okay all right just getting my attention you've been working me today I've been hitting this thing a lot tonight so I just want to make sure I'm not missing anybody okay comments from our city council representative thank you all right with that I will entertain a motion to adjourn okay moved by Commissioner goon in her last act seconded by Commissioner Jacobi all those in favor say aye oppose none we are adjourned thank you all good night