 Good day and welcome back to the Forty Auty podcast with your host, Mr Thomas Henley, of course. Today we have another episode for you guys. We're going to be talking about autism, men and mental health. And before I introduce my guest, I just want to give a little bit of a backstory. I currently am an ambassador for a lady called Anna Kennedy. She's an OBE and she does a lot of work. She was I think she was one of the first people to set up a special needs school in the UK. So very big advocate from from the gates running. And we've been in contact. She's helped me link up with companies like Born Anxious to produce my my t-shirt line. Really great lady who's doing some really active work within the mainstream media and within the community. She's also produced this this really cool event called Autism's Got Talent, which is kind of like the autism version of Britain's Got Talent or America's Got Talent. And they have a lot of different music artists, performers, people who come to these events to share their stories, share their talents and be judges. I think it's very different to usual events where it's kind of a bit more of like a showcase rather than like a ranking thing where people move up and becomes a winner. But it's a really cool event that I'd recommend anyone check out if you're interested in her work. She also got some books out and things like that. Very interesting lady, very great, very happy to work with her. But one of the aspects that's more akin to the topic of this podcast is she introduced me to this amazing music artist called Kiran Le, who produces music. He's currently studying at university. And I am just absolutely involved with the the work that that Kiran's done. The already the songs that have come out. He produced an album called Acronyms. And all of his songs are, you know, Acronyms. I don't know what what what the how I would describe. Versatile, versatile, versatile. When the when the album completely jumps. There's a lot of music on there that I think nobody would expect. Yeah. But it all really just tells that story start to finish. Well, let's introduce our guest, Kiran. How are you doing today? Today has been stressful. But I'm excited. I'm excited to be to be doing to be doing this and to have even had this opportunity. And when you approach me, I was I was really overwhelmed that, you know, you've got quite an already big following. And you've really made a name for yourself. And you, before you even, you know, approached me, I was checking out your stuff. And just some of the stuff you were talking about that really resonated to me on a level that I think so many people like me will will understand. I mean, you touch on some topics that not a lot of people are touching on. So for you to even be like, I've checked out your some of your work and I want you to come on my podcast, just I was really overwhelmed. And then when we spoke, it was just kind of like, almost talking to somebody that was another version of me. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I think we have a lot of similarities. So yeah, but yeah, I suppose like, you know, for the purposes of this podcast, you know, we're both autistic, we both still to this day, struggle with mental health that life has given us. So it's, I think it's really good. It would be really good to talk to you about like, I guess, mental health in general, but also about men as well, because I know that the suicide statistics for men are really bad. And there's there's a bit of a sort of, there's a varied amount of different social stigmas that kind of apply to men about, you know, not sharing how you feel, having to appear strong and kind of, you know, on top of things. And obviously, as we get into the podcast, we can kind of challenge some of those things. But before we get into like talking about the main topic of the podcast, like men and mental health and autism, I guess I want to know, like, how did you get involved in sort of the music industry? And how did you get involved with working with Anna and Bon Ancius? Yeah, so, you know, when I was younger, it's in the world completely different to, you know, my peers sound has always been something I've been obsessed with, and the ways that we can manipulate sound. So from the get go, I think music was just something that I just took to in, in the most beautiful way, I've never taken to something like I have to music. It's something that's very complex, very broad and has so many other things attached to it that when you start to learn it, it just interests you and the knowledge behind it just amazes me. So I started college 2016, you know, leaving school was that was hard, big massive transition. But in Birmingham, we have the cat team, which is there called communication and autism team. And I've worked with them since I was, you know, very, very little, like I'm talking just started school and wasn't very verbal, didn't take to people, didn't really show any, you know, care for a lot of things, just emotions and all of that. And so we diagnosed quite, quite young, you know, I was diagnosed at the age of three. Yeah, yeah, that's very, very early. Yeah, I say that I was diagnosed quite early, but I was like 10. To know my mom was really, I think a lot of people would be quite annoyed at this, but was really almost not against me having a diagnosis. But, you know, 1999, we didn't have the knowledge that we do now. I think I think the knowledge out there still now is is not good enough to be honest. Yeah. I mean, I'm still learning something new about myself every day. But yeah, I was diagnosed really young. And my mom and the doctors, they had spoke about whatever it whatever they were speaking about, they just, it was the things that I would do when I was younger. I was, I mean, like the one time I cut off a cat's ear and I'm not a malicious or nasty person. I just have no street smarts. I mean, I can't even remember that. So for me to hear that from someone that really loves animals more than people really hurts my heart. And there was just other things that were alarming to mom, like not wanting to be touched, not wanting to be dressed and, you know, being really sensitive to things that are happening around me. And she got some advice and they really encouraged her to get this, you know, addressed and she did. And I'll rate her so much for that. I mean, when my mom had me, she was only 19. Wow. Yeah. So for her to take on a child when she's still practically a child herself, you know, parenting don't come with a manual anyway. So what is it like pairing in, you know, a child with yeah, there are some ADHD, it's just like, what, you know, how am I going to, how am I going to do this? And I growing up, I really felt misunderstood by by a lot of people, even my mom. But now I'm older. I've really gone through some trauma x stuff that's really just, you know, changed my whole outlook of everything. I mean, I was talking to one of my friends yesterday, he's going for a really, really rough time now. And I mean, he last year, he was packing his bags off and he went and moved somewhere new and he was starting something exciting for himself. And he was talking yesterday, you know, he's back here right now, he needs his support unit. And it's those those kind of things, those traumatic events. I know that for him, he would have taken that a certain way. But for me, if that was me in that situation, I would have talked to that a lot worse than he did. And it's that that helps me get that, you know, kind of view and outlook on things. And yeah. But yeah, so we can put a lot of pressure on ourselves way too much. I think even even people like who don't have neurodiversities, you know, in modern day society, you know, we have the issues with like housing, the cost of living crisis, you know, we've got lots of aspects that can make it really hard for young people to sort of move out, you know, seek that independence. And especially when you're autistic, you use kind of like you have lots of other different things to think about and even goes far as mental health, you know, if you are, you know, perhaps if you do perhaps go through like severe periods where you can't function as well as you, you could usually do, that can make it sort of a looming worry over any kind of event that you or change that you tried to make. I think for me, it's like every day is expected, the unexpected, because we're going to get we're going to get something a little bit different every day. But that routine still going to be Yeah, on top of that in answer to your question, I was approached by Aaron York. He's also an autistic producer, songwriter, and he worked with the communication and autism team. And they come out and they were they were recording like a series done really well on YouTube actually. And I was a partner and we done he filmed me, you know, singing. And he said, he told me about Anna's work. And he just told me, you know, what Anna, what Anna does basically. And to begin with, I was kind of like, this sounds cool. He approached me and says, we're doing an album. And I want to show Anna you. And I have no doubt that she will want you to be on this album. And it was it was building bridges. And yeah, from then just never looked back. I found it really interesting, like the sort of the crossover between autism music. So I hear a lot from other people, strengths like pattern seeking, being like really, you know, really helping with like creativity. Specifically, when you think of like beats and music and lyrics, you know, being able to kind of spot patterns and see where you can feed into them or like break them up for effect or even go so far as like pitch, like singing. I know that a lot of autistic people, their pitch tends to be like pretty on point. And even if it's not, they can tell like deviations. I'm very on it when I'm on stage and I'm performing. And if one of my musicians or one of my instrumentalists messes up, I'm noticing that I'm calling them out about that on stage. That's that whole business, you know, music, it gets embedded into you man. And I think music just helps so many autistic people. For me, it's I don't think that, you know, without music, I would be able to express myself like at all. It's literally autism that represents my music. Autism is my music. Yeah. And that's every, you know, everything behind it. The thinking process behind, you know, like naming songs and and even that pitch thing, I learned a really cool technique the other week about when we're doing when we say we're programming a kick drum and we want to get, you know, a certain effect, we can just get a snare, pitch that down. And you wouldn't know that the pitches are different. It would just have that lovely element underneath. And it's them things that fascinate me. It's sort of like the little details of Yeah, there's so many details like the sum of its whole. Yeah, yeah, there's so many. I mean, studying music. I didn't before this call, we were talking about, you know, before the start of the podcast, even we were talking about, you know, what we're talking about, Thomas, we're talking about business. And we were talking about, you know, you asked the aspects of music creation, just being it's not like you just show up and you sing everything's like perfect, you got to learn like the editing, the promotion, the forms and marketing, the absolute everything, the writing, the licensing, making sure that, you know, your distribution saw it, you know, making sure that if you're marking it to someone, you know where you're marking that. So you have to have a whole plan. I mean, I've been sitting on top of this album now for almost a year and I'm just so desperate to release it. But I'm just waiting. I know it's going to be in the next couple of months. But I'm just waiting for that moment. I think for me with music, I think everything just has to not always sit right, but flow, you know, everything in music is the flow. I think it's really interesting you talk about that, because it's like, I had a podcast with a ex GB tech one half late now, sort of physio dude, and we were talking about sort of making it in the world as like a in self being self employed, or like in the workplace. Like there's there's loads of aspects where, you know, we have a lot of strengths, like and but there is always going to be some aspects that we find really hard and taxing. Yeah, once we have a weakness, I think we have to then go out with help for someone to assist find that strategy of how we're even going to approach that. And I'm so glad you say stuff like that, because I don't think that a lot of people understand that. I've been going through a big deal with university. And I'm actually I'm situated at VCU, but the course itself is situated at my college. No, I've got no experience with university. I've got a lot of experiences with university. I've had a lot of experiences with university students before you go to uni. And I don't think a lot of autistic individuals that would even want to you know that want to consider uni don't actually know what benefits that they could get from going to university. And that really aggravates me. And it's not like set out in like, oh, yeah, at the start of the year, but just before I started uni, we you get assessed, you know, for your needs. And I mean, the assessment was so hard for me. I can't do talking to people about, you know, I don't know how to explain it. I can't be speaking to people that I don't really know. Or you know, when you know something's official. For me, when you know that that thing's really important, it puts the pressure on me even more, and just makes the whole thing even more of overwhelming. And I got assessed for my support. And I got all of my support put in place. And then at the start of the year, we go to uni, it's strike. And as you can imagine, there's no delivery on lectures. It's then hard time comes up with until we've got an assignment. I didn't know I got stuff like automatic two week extensions, you know, because of my fluctuating circumstances. College has been a real support unit for me at the same time. And I thought that going there as uni would benefit me because I really wanted to go away. I thought I need to find some sort of independence. But obviously, things don't always turn out how I expect. And I went through a massive ordeal in the summer in that just put on hold. Well, actually, it wasn't that it just wasn't being in a good place. You know, and it not being right to go and take yourself away, you know, when you go through these episodes, and then we get a little bit better in them or advised, you know, we don't want to push you too far. We want you to still be good and to for you to still be able to deliver basically. And so I was saying about these extensions. They were all in place. And my tutors just didn't acknowledge the change in my behavior in terms of, you know, my physical appearance. They were aware just before breaking up that I was struggling massively with my with my mental health. And, you know, I was absolutely assured that everything was just going to be okay. And that the support was going to be there and in place. Yeah. And my tutors didn't even read any of these, you know, support statements, didn't even tell me about my extensions, didn't tell me that my handouts meant to be given to me. So many different things. It got to a point where it become very confrontational. Yeah. They're quite mean. And there's been times where, you know, I'm a very respectful person. And I've known these tutors for eight years. You know, I've been there a long time. I've studied a lot. I love studying. And they know me. They know I see these people as family. And for them to not, you know, you know, if I was, you know, teaching is something that I want to do. And I've, I've done teaching programs and gone and taught music and done some workshops. And that was great. That's cool. And yeah, we're really seeing these people as a family. I still do. I still have a lot of respect for them. I'm just just heart because a lot of the stuff with uni who's just really impacted on all of my the business stuff, you know, it's prevented me from marketing. It's prevented me to, you know, be able to just dedicate the time that I know that my project is worth. But yeah, if I had a student, you know, that had additional needs, and I noticed a change in their behavior, especially if I knew them to begin with, my first thought would be I need to go and find this child support plan, this student support plan, because something's not right here. And we was talking earlier about, you know, relapsing and all of that. And that's just kind of where I'm at with everything right now. University can be really tough. Like, Yeah, it really is. I had I had pretty much like these two or three issues like for other year, like, we could talk about the specifics about like, how they communicate during like exams and stuff, being just completely like, uncertain about what they want from me. There's, I mean, I was, I was really fortunate that I made a link with one of the student support officers when I was at uni. And they were kind of like that pretty much like the H the HR of the university. And they were so they were so supportive. And anytime I had any issues, I could kind of go in and chat to this person, she's called Joanne. She's sadly so she's sadly passed away just before I graduated. But she was very sort of integral to keeping me afloat during those times. And I think if I didn't have her, I don't think I would have been able to sort of cope with university. I really get that I have those people around me, Lisa and Amanda, where felt welfare and mentor advisors. We have like a student services at the college. And they've known me since I was really, really young. I mean, I don't know. I did a talk with some Sen students last summer. For those, you know, looking to join the college and they show on the video, you know, the cat TV, where I teamed up with Aaron and Anna. And yeah, they she saw that video and she's just without, you know, she cried at seeing this video, she's just like, wow, he's come such a long way. And I know that none of that would have, it wouldn't have been possible without the support of any of them, you know, and I think for we need them kind of units. And if we don't have them units, things just aren't possible. It's it's interesting because it's like, you know, we obviously have such, you know, negative life experiences as autistic people just throughout life, whether it's like bullying or isolation or, you know, issues within the workplace issues with kind of advocating for your needs. There's so many aspects to being autistic that can make it really hard, especially in the adult world. Because there is no sort of solid, like governmental support for autistic people post 18. Yeah, other than perhaps, yes, workplace things. Do you know, for me, I just wake up now and I'm like, I've spent my whole life trying to understand why it is I take to certain things, or why is a react or respond to them sort of things that I'm just sick of my like, you know, I'm not making excuses for myself. Do you know what I mean? Like, it is what it is. And that that's it. And I should actually be proud of myself for even acknowledging that, you know, and I think that there is an aspect of like, especially with with life, you know, we have all these social norms that people trying to try to thrust upon us. But being autistic, we have we have a spiky profile, we have things that we're really good at doing and we can do for ages and we can focus on all day to the point where we forget to eat and drink and, you know, pick up all the tiny details and, you know, recognize patterns and create things. But there's just such a there's a part of life that we may we may fall down on which, you know, for me, that could be things around like executive functioning, things like keeping on top of hygiene or cooking or cleaning or, you know, that those those things as well as within the workplace, things around like organization and communications, you know, there's lots of things that I'm great at that I can do which, you know, it's, you know, if I would say it was like that the product of what I would want to sell to people, you know, being like my podcast work and my blogs and stuff. But there's so many aspects to running that kind of thing that I'm not so great. Yeah, I'm really happy because I am in a situation where I found someone who might be able to sort of support me in that side of things. But it's taken a while and it's not something that's like readily pushed by and supported by, you know, like the systems that we have in place. Oh, yeah, 100% I don't think anything we've got to search out. Yeah, yeah, I don't think any of the things that I'm doing would be possible without that support unit, you know, without without people like Anna without, you know, the help from born anxious and without them people that continue to inspire and motivate me. It you know, I mean, it wouldn't be what we vision it to be. We really nurture these projects. And we have to try to nurture everything that that is is sat behind them, them things that are new to us. And yeah, just be proud of that in it. I think that's that's a proud thing. Yeah, it's it's being being able to say hey, look, you know, I'm amazing at this. Yeah. And it just being okay. Yeah. Yeah, and then all the stuff being like, I don't I don't find that easy. And I need support with that and that being okay as well. It's like, yeah, understanding the two sides of it, you know, like, we see a lot of stuff. We used to see a lot of stuff which is very negative about autism. Now, we have sort of organizations, companies and people kind of they kind of go the other way, where they say that everything's great about autism, whereas like the reality is that it's a mix of the two and it's, you know, it's it's just being different and having different needs and having different strengths and being okay with that, I guess. I guess what I, you know, would really want to to talk about is is sort of like the mental health side of the thing, side of things. Because I know the statistics. The podcast that I did beforehand was around, like suicide, suicidality and autism, which was quite a heavy one. And we looked at some of like, the really difficult statistics even for for young people and adults. So what I really want to know is, you know, what are your experiences with mental health and how do you think autism played into them? Honestly, I didn't have any autism on top of ADHD. To me, my whole life, that's felt like curse, honestly. Yeah. And autism, you know, mental health, it's severely impacted just because of how it takes a thing. But, you know, having these these these gifts that I now see them as, you know, without autism and the other problems, then I wouldn't see the world the way that I did or do sorry. So that means I wouldn't be able to make the stuff that I make. But yeah, man, it means without that kind of mental health aspects of it, it's emotions that came from it. Yeah, it's, I mean, I'm like an empath, I see myself, you know, I mean, yesterday was quite a hard day for me. And I got through, got through it up until the night. And my friend was with me in the day and he'd he's been really going through a tough ordeal. And I picked up off that emotion so much. And that bit later on on the night when he had left, I remembered my problem. And on top of his problem, and I just I just couldn't stop crying. I had a huge amount of like I say, every day is different, you know, I mean, we're still finding out things about ourselves. I learned something new, if not every day, every week. And I think, I think, you know, it's like one of the reasons why I've done this today is because I'm really trying to build a platform for myself. But not just be somebody that wants to, you know, release music, somebody that wants to touch on things, touch on the important things. And mental health is, it's like the hardest thing in it. Last year in the summer, my best friend, yeah, man, took advantage of me. And it really ate me up, man. And I know I've experienced so much in the past. I mean, you know, we talk about suicide. I've been there and I've been influenced, you know, by, by drugs, by, by alcohol, by all of them, things that you know, people just deem normal today, to the point where I don't drink anymore. I don't do them things. Because I know the impacts that it has. And autism and addiction is, is like, it's a really big and so bad to the point where it's kind of like now that I'm really proud of myself that I don't need to have a drop of alcohol to, you know, let off some steam. I don't need to do that. You know, I should just be able to do that without that stigma, you know, of, you know, it's all right, it's okay to not be okay. And so my, my, my sort of experiences were mental. I mean, I touch on that a lot within some of the podcast, but it was, it was very much created during my time during secondary school. So the experiences of bullying and isolation and harassment that I had it during those times. I developed depression and anxiety, which are quite severe. I had like daily meltdowns and panic attacks for a long time. That's me every day. I'm exhausted. It was, it was, it was a really tough time. And I think, you know, going past sort of secondary school, I kind of carried that, that trauma that those experiences with me. And I think just because of the exposure that I had to those negative experiences when I was younger, it kind of affected my brain. Oh yeah. And this, this is the process of things. And how long it takes to process information. And I still see my specialist every three, if not four weeks. And that support for me, you know, it helps me to still learn about myself. And one of the things I found out was, you know, how long it actually takes for me to process a piece of information that that could be any time, you know, it could happen then and affect you still so many years later down on the line because that trauma, trauma doesn't go away. That trauma, it gets embedded. And you develop all these Yeah, these defenses as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To do, I was talking to sort of a good friend about something similar where they experienced something really difficult when they were quite young in the teenagehood. And we were sort of chatting the other night about about that and how, you know, there's little things that you kind of just pass off as being like a normal part of you or your personality that, you know, really come from that experience of trauma, which, you know, I think especially like with interpersonal relationships, it can, it can make it really hard to trust people and to feel safe. And yeah, these coping mechanisms, the moment about that, the moment you find that partner and then it doesn't go the way it goes. Or you think you find that someone and take that trust and you trust them, you know, and you love them. I think when you're heart by that, it's almost like the end of the world, you know, and yeah, you don't have been flawed for like years post break Yeah, it's me right now. And I was with the person. Yeah, man, things really do affect people with autism, just just on a scale that is just it's unimaginable. It really is unimaginable. And you know, I'm still I think it's really, you know, interesting, you're talking about like processing things because I don't think for a long time enough. I don't. And I'm sick for a long time. Yeah, I'll carry on. I was just going to say, I'm just sick and tired of people saying, you know, get over it. Or, you know, it's been a year, or it's almost been a year, or, you know, this happens and no, because, you know, I've actually just, you know, I have to work for what works with me and the way that I'm feeling don't work, but I understand that I'm processing this completely different to other people. Why is that a bad thing? Why do I have to, you know, make that out to you, make that statement and make that aware that the way I'm not making excuses for myself, we spend most of our lives our whole lives in fact, figuring out why it is we respond and act this way. And I'm just sick of people saying that, you know, you know, just it's it's that's life, mate, you know, because that's what this stigma of, you know, men and their mental health and it's not okay to be and not feel good, you know, balls. Yeah, you know, what the literally, man, and it's that sort of naive behavior is naive because these people that have that sort of outlook on the world just they're just naive. They're not they're not open minded. They can't see things for what it actually is. You know, and I think I think even as far as going into the mainstream media, like if we talk about even the people who are organizations who are advocating for mental health, it's always like, oh yeah, positive statements around your house and think positively and you know, like that's that like that's always gonna work. You know, I don't I've been in my place. I mean, Thomas, I can't explain what my life is like every day at the moment. When I go 24 seven, I don't know how to shut off. I don't sleep. I'm not eating really going through so many different things. But I'm I'm still like holding the fact that I should be proud of the things that I've accomplished whilst going through this and ask somebody that is normal. Yeah, to come and just step their feet in my shoes if they can fit for one day. Because I do not I've spent a lot of my life, you know, not feeling proud of accomplishments and not feeling proud of being able to do something. You know, because because people can do that. Just just everyone can do that. And it really aggravates me. And this is why your podcast touches me so so much. And you're actually one of my inspirations. I can't lie. It's this is what yeah, seriously, no, and I genuinely mean that. And this is why I really wanted to be on the podcast because you're continuously highlighting things that are important. RSD, it's one RSD, you know, rejection sensitive, your rejection sense. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, why, what is this, you know, when I was younger, I used to come home and I'd research, why do I have like a stab in pain in my heart? And it would just be like, you're dying or something, you know, just, you know, what Google's like, if you, if you Google listen to the end of the world, think the worst automatically. And my specialist actually said, do you know what RSD is? And then, you know, having ADHD as well, you know that RSD is very common in individuals with ADHD. And I don't know how, and to what extent you know about how medication works for RSD. But from what I researched, you can't be medicated for ADHD and RSD. I did some, yeah, I did some, I should have kept this for this, for this particular thing right now, because this is a conversation that I wanted to have with you. And just think the point I'm trying to make is that when you spoke about that, that really connected to me, and I don't think a lot of people are even aware of what RSD is, or whether it is a thing, you know. And, you know, we talk about, you know, how, how does, you know, autism affect us? Well, it affects multiple things, because it's not just autism, it's an ADHD. And, you know, autism has its stems, ADHD has its stems, has its stems, and it's, it's one big massive tree that just doesn't stop growing. Yeah, you know, yeah, so yeah, I'm really, I feel really privileged to be able to do this today. Because I feel a lot of my stuff is not as vocal as it could be. And I say that being a singer, I want to be somebody that can, going back to earlier, I said, I was really skeptical about the whole autism and doing an album thing and it, you know, being noticed for massing in just because I'm autistic. And then I thought, you know, we go through something, and I'll outlook on that completely challenges. And it was that and it's that now and I want to be able to create music that touches on topics that, you know, mean something to people that tells the story. I want a platform to be that. I want people to know, you know, happen on my website and know that, you know, I'm, you know, I'm someone that has gone through this and if there's anything that I can do at all to help anyone, that's this, that's something I would do, you know, and as well, you inspire me so much, because there's just not enough talking about this. There's so much talking about all of the other stuff and just not enough of this. Hey, up, just popping on to say thank you for listening to this podcast thus far. If you could do me a real solid, please make sure to rate the podcast if you're in a podcasting streaming service, and do all that like, subscribe, comment stuff on YouTube, that I'm even send a heart in the comments if you don't feel like typing. Make sure to check out my link tree, which is always down below in the description, or head over to my Instagram page at Thomas Henley UK for daily blogs, podcast updates and weekly lives. This podcast is sponsored by my favorite noise cancelling, noise reducing earbuds that you can adjust the volume on. Really, really great thing. They're called debuts and you can find the affiliate link down in the description of this podcast. Anyway, I hope you enjoy the rest of the podcast. That's all from me. To put in all the all of the issues on the autistic label rather than the interaction between the autistic person and the society that's not built for us. Like I really feel what you said earlier about sort of growing up hating yourself and hating autism, because that's something that's something that I experienced a lot. When I was younger, I used to talk to my mom and I was like, why do I have to be autistic? Why do I struggle with these things? You know, I used to get really upset about it. And it was only until my early 20s when I really sort of branched out my understanding of autism through listening to over autistic people that I started to that's the magic. You know what? There's actually some great things to this and now we're an asset to the world and 100% we offer something different. Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean, when I'm having these huge ass meltdowns, I still I'm like, why does my brain have to be like this? Why am I built like this? And I really am a kind of part of my life where it's like, if this is how things affect me now, then what am I going to be when that support unit's gone? You know, because coping, that would just be impossible, wouldn't it? Yeah, it's definitely definitely difficult. I mean, I know that you mentioned about sort of seeing like a specialist or like a counselor or something around mental health. But in terms of like, you know, the diagnosis and things that that you experience, what are those mental health things? I imagine that it's around like anxiety, depression, things like that. Yeah, yeah, of course. And, you know, the stuff that comes with that and how we manage that, you know, I'm not afraid to admit that I have scars on every section of my body. Because self harm is sometimes how I manage them feelings. And, you know, it's overdosing. And then, you know, it's drinking. And I don't drink now. I couldn't. I don't lead to because I'm too much of a mess. I have to really prep for things. I have to really prep and just be able to take that time. And so, so now I'm kind of at a point where I just I feel like I don't want to live. I do. I feel like that. I feel like that every day. And that's just because of, you know, the recent hurt and all of that. But it's the other things that really keeps me going. It's the people like you and the people that are autistic and deal with mental health that are able to say it's alright. It's okay not to be okay, you know. Look, it really is like we were really emotional person. But yeah, mental health has affected me in more ways than one. Earlier, I mentioned that I was taking a dramatic job by one of my friends. And they left, they left without my explanation. And, you know, I just had to be left and deal with that sort of thing. And yeah, in the summer, I just became so shut off from everything. And most I think there's a there's a term for that. I think it's because it's so it happens to to a lot of people. There's this concept called mate crime, whereas why somebody deliberately prevents someone who's autistic or is disabled to take advantage of them. Oh, yeah. When you're pretending to be friends to get to use them Yeah, yeah, I think I don't think the friendship was fake. I just think there was an opportunity behind it. You know, when that they're led on to other things. Most recently, I've been in an eating disorder, which I didn't ever I never thought would ever be a problem in my life, to be honest. And I mean, there's a wake up and I think you're so fat. And I know I'm not. Because, you know, in a year, I've lost like four stone. It's like, these are how these things affect us, you know, but I still feel like they're self in doing what I'm doing. Yeah. And this is what I thought I'm going to give you everything today. And I thought that I'm really going to take this opportunity to to touch to talk to, you know, be an advocate, because if if other people can do it, and I feel like a pin for it, I think I want to be able to shed light on people. I mean, that's what I live for, you know, I don't I don't live for me. I live for people. And I think if I didn't have my mom greater, yeah, yeah, I mean, if I didn't have my mom, I don't think I'd be here for stop to be honest. But if you know, you know, Kelly, born anxious, her little one, yeah, Oscar, he's like the most adorable soul on this planet, and it's the kids like him that I live for. People that, you know, individuals that really struggle, but don't even aren't even aware of how great they are. It's that man. It's it's those kind of things. But yeah, life has been the hardest it's ever been at the moment on top of uni, on top of writing an album and trying to release it and you know, everything else that comes attached with that. But I think for anyone that feels like me, in this particular moment, needs to just be proud, you know, that they haven't done that to begin with, that they were even able to do that. Because it's like any any achievement that you make any achievement that you do, it's, it's, you know, I think you could take a lot of pride in doing that, especially when you, you know, just by nature of your experiences in your brain, it's so much harder for you that, you know, although it's not something that everybody will recognize, something that I think everyone should recognize in themselves about. Because I don't think people realize how much it takes for us to recognize that, you know. And it's just like, yeah, this is why I love this podcast. Well, there is like an aspect of being open specifically about mental health or even autism for a fact around being a man. And I know that it's not mental health isn't something that's, you know, but I think more women on average experience mental health difficulties than men. But I think there's a lot of I don't believe that, you know, I really just, I don't believe that, that I don't believe that that women, you know, deal with mental health more than men. Because there's not really a stigma behind, you know, women and mental health, or at least not to my knowledge. And they don't, you know, you know, I'm not going to be stereotyping or anything. But yeah, no, I just, I don't, I don't see how that could be the case. Because there are so many men that still won't today that, you know, we talk about people being naive and just underreported. Yeah, yeah, it's 100% underreported and people aren't talking about it because their image is more important than what's going on inside. You know what I mean? And so yeah, I don't believe that for a minute. I don't think there should be any there should be any comparison to be honest, but I do think that people need to start being more alert and being more aware about the fact that, you know, at least we're in the 21st century, you know, why is there still a stigma between men and mental health? It's just, it's just, it doesn't fit, you know. Why do you think that stigma is? Do you think it's... I think we are still, you know, this wall is, it's evolving into things that nobody really thought, but them traditional, you know, some of them traditional opinions and then views are still around. And I mean, I think it's, I don't want to be called to say it's a specific generation, but I do think that, I do think that that's, I think I think, you know, people that, you know, have had more experience that think men should be menly and, you know, I think there's just so much of that naivety around, you know. And I think definitely like, you know, that there are a lot of core sort of values that we talk about with, with men that I, you know, empathize with a lot and I think could be useful to a lot of men, but I do think that there is a, that I've, you know, for, I mean, kind of thinking about it a lot recently. And there's, there's two sort of aspects to, to sort of my experiences being, being a man and having mental health. One is you get these overly like extroverted, you know, very insecure men who feel like any, any sign of weakness or any sign of emotion or anything like that, that kind of toxic kind of thing. Some men can be like that and I have had a lot of people sort of throughout my life who have had that mentality and kind of made fun of me for, you know, having mental illness and not being able to get over it or taking antidepressants or, you know, perhaps not being as confident or strong in their eyes as they see it or even just making fun of me for, for sharing things and being vulnerable. But there's another aspect of it as well, that people, and this goes for both men and women, people kind of assume that because of the way that you look like, you know, and I'm six free and, you know, I'm fairly big and it's, people kind of overlook it when I, when I tell them that I'm struggling because they see me in my physicality and I just don't think it happens to everybody, not, not even men and women. Yeah, it does or anything between. I know that there are some other life experiences that I think a majority of men might experience that, that, that perhaps women were experienced as much, which could be things like conflicts like, you know, you're more likely to be victim of a crime if you're a man. You're also more likely to go to war and experience like the front lines and, you know, come back with a lot of see that traditional. Yeah, this is what I mean about, we talked earlier about, you know, traditional, you know, like it's, I think some women, you know, women today would be annoyed if they didn't have the opportunity to fight for their country. And then we come back to these, you know, traditional it's, it's men on the front line, you know, like men should be big, brave and no, no, just no, because it's alright not to be alright. And that is literally it, isn't it? I just, I don't think there's any other explanation. It's just okay not to be okay. It's alright to say I do struggle. You know, it's okay to say I need a bit of support. And I think, I mean, even for me, I mean, sometimes I, I mean, I'll struggle to ask for help, not because I can't ask them, but because sometimes I always just don't want that help. I want to be able to manage it. I want to be able to cope, you know, but know how you feel. Yeah. I think there's, there's another aspect of you know, modern day living that I think is quite hard to overcome. It's kind of a bit of a stigma is that we, we very much place like this idea that, you know, men are not as emotional as women and that they, they don't feel I can vouch and fully say that I guarantee I'm emotional more than any woman on this planet. And I think anybody that's listening that knows me will also agree. I mean, I can't, I can't already count how many times I've cried since yesterday, you know, I've got an emotional person. I mean, what is it? Yeah, we're saying you're not allowed to show emotion. You're a man as far as I'm aware. And man means that you are born with these parts. I still have these parts, you know, I'm still a man. It's OK not to be OK. And yeah, man, we identify. Yeah, or I don't, you know, yeah, literally that. And it's like, I just think people really need to just I'm so positive. I try to be positive and I try to be hopeful for the future and for people that are a lot more vulnerable. You have to be, you have to be mental health, don't you? You have to be positive. Yeah, yeah. But I don't I I'm always just like at times I'm like, this is just impossible. This is not going to change. And it's that where there needs to be more support available to people. I mean, waiting lists are so long. People are dying. It's not good. And we have very high rates of mental health within the autistic community and we don't have a lot of support for it. No, really. It's quite often even if you do get support, it's it tends not to be very effective. No, not at all. You almost kind of situations with the mental health systems. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that that aspect of, you know, men being emotional just being absolutely it's absolutely ridiculous because being emotional isn't masculine or feminine trait. It's a human trait. Exactly. You know, yeah, like we wouldn't do it if, you know, we wasn't made to do them things like we wouldn't we wouldn't show these emotions. If we're really angry, it's crazy thinking about work. We have the men and their kids and like, do they not feel emotion towards their kids? And like, you know, love their partners. It's yeah. So I've been around to us that are males that I've broke down and cried in front of because I've been really upset by something that said and they've just not gave a care in the world. And it's that that just to even think that we are having this conversation annoys me, doesn't annoy me because it's a conversation that should be happening. It's just a you know, it shouldn't even be a reason for why we're having a talk about it. Yeah. I mean, the world's evolving, man. And there's just, yeah, it really does. It really annoys me because I say I need to recognise when I've made an achievement and be proud of that and to even be dealing with mental health. You know, that's that's that's an achievement. I should be in a mocked because I'm a male that is going through a hard time. You know, I just don't sit right, don't sit right. I think. I mean. You know, there are aspects to to masculinity that I I find. You know, applied to me and I think everyone has their own sort of definitions about what that means. But. I do think that, you know, for a lot of for a lot of men, we do give ourselves a hard time for having these emotions rather than accepting them. And I don't think that. Ignoring them and knowing that they're there, but ignoring them and pushing them to the side and developing mechanisms to get around it and not talking about it and not being open and communicating about it. I don't see that as like a sign of strength or a sign of masculinity because it's it's running away from something. If you're struggling with mental health, if you're struggling with depression, saying that you're depressed and that you have these experiences and have these faults and emotions, I think it takes much more courage to. Way more courage. One hundred percent pushing it to the side. There's not enough praise for being like, you know, I'm very I'm such an open person. If I think something, I say it a lot of the time without thinking. But. Yeah, man, we really just need to say that's the ADHD side of things mentally. But. It's just like. Babe, yeah, literally what you said, I couldn't say, I wouldn't say, but just acknowledging that that took strength to say, acknowledging that that hurt to say. But then they then realising, you know, that it's again, OK, just to not be alright. There is an aspect of mental health which I think is very, very underrepresented, under represented, which is things about your about your body, body image and self-esteem. Like we're living in a time where there's a lot of standards out there, a lot of, you know, we talk a lot about how social media can really warp the perceptions of women. But I think it's also for men as well. Or I grew up hating my body. Instagram people out, you know, out in the world taking steroids and saying that they can just achieve this through hard work and that you're weak and that you can't do all of this. And, you know, if you're if you don't have a particular body type, then you're not a real man or you're not attractive. You know, growing up when experiences that body image issue these days. 100 percent. I was growing up and I, you know, I didn't feel like I found my style into a certain age and I'd see people that were having this particular thing. And I'd be like, I always had the historic vision of I want to be that person and now I just I just I don't want to be that person. You know, my outfits speak for themselves sort of things and it's them things that we we learn, you know, that how do I, how do I, how do I reword that? Like. You kind of you look at people and you want to let any of them you want to get where they are. Yeah, but to the point where it's not like that anymore, because the creative person inside me is like I really don't know how to touch on that or or or how to even, you know, explain what it is I'm trying to say. So it's something around like individuality, right? Yeah. And self expression. Not feeling, you know, you know, not feeling comfortable in, you know, your body image. I mean, like I, you know, I said, I'm struggling a lot with eating and, you know, for me, if I eat something, I'm trying not to exercise straight away and stuff like that, because, you know, that's the thing of, like, if you do that, you're going to become this or you're going to look a certain way. And in terms of, like. Appearance. You see how it swaps? You see how that when I was younger, it used to be like, I wish I was, you know, I wish I could express myself through my fashion this way, like that person is. Well, now it's like kind of just swapped and it's kind of like, you know, about what I just said in regards to the think it was was it was it the eating? Yeah. Yeah. I am throughout my life, I've always had issues with my own body image, self esteem. I used to try in the reason why kind of was so adamant on getting a certain body typing, getting like a level of leanness and dropping my weight down was because I really struggled with like the facts that I wasn't very good at talking to girls and that I couldn't, you know, I really wanted a relationship and I was like, oh, well, people don't find me attractive and that I am just so socially awkward and I can't speak to people. So what do I do? Well, you know, I try and fix external things. I try and, you know, I try and wake up getting lean and getting strong and, you know, and I think that that for me was a big ignition for my own sort of eating disorder habits. It was also, I think it wasn't necessarily about my body image as well. It was more like it was like another way of sort of having myself. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like that. Yeah, 100% I was bulimic. So it was kind of, you know, there's that perging aspect to it, which is it's it's somewhat dramatic just by its nature. And I kind of felt like I deserved it at that time that I wasn't good as, you know, I didn't deserve to have that that meal or that food or that those sweets. So I kind of punished myself. Yeah, we do by not eating. And yeah, I don't think I've we're at completely two different. I feel like I'm I've only just started to acknowledge that it's a problem. And I think for anyone that struggles or has struggled with eating disorder. I don't know how to say this. There's only so much we're ready to open up about, you know, at a time and as sure. So it's kind of nice to hear your outlook and how it affected you because I'm not that. I'm OK to say, look, I've got an issue with eating. But there's there's a lot more, you know, yeah. Time doesn't. Yeah, it does. And I really love it. Not I love hearing you say this, but I like I love you. You say this. I really like I love talking about all these horrible things. I'm so glad you've had. I just it's nice to I think anyone that's, you know, you could have eaten and they hear about it from someone else. It's easier to talk about. It's easier to be like, OK, there's a problem, but there's only so much I want to address. Like I'm not I'm not ready to get help for my eating disorder and stuff. No, no, no pressure. Yeah, you know, it's it's them sort of things. And so I really like hearing that you've. It's inspiring, man. It really is inspiring. And I think as well, we do have a tendency, like as as meant to glorify. Unhate unhealthy states like, you know, some of the top, like bodybuilding creators, they're like, you know, obviously great, great physique, lots of muscle, but, you know, they're chronically underweight, they're chronically like. And the reason why people go to follow them is because they are like that. We have that aspect of bigger X here in body dysmorphia kind of going around where men don't feel manly enough because they don't look as muscular as they want to. And they look at themselves in the mirror and they're like, oh, how tiny am I? And I think that that's that's an over aspect of it. And I think a lot of men, you know, they feel, they feel a lot of, I guess, they feel weak from not looking a certain way. And we tend to glorify those people who use things like steroids and. Yeah, yeah. Cut their weight down. And so there's that aspect of things. It's just normalizing things that just should have been normalized, man. And I think I just, I see it's in so many areas and not just in this. And I just hate that, man, that, that things are often this way because there's a lack of support in it. And not enough people talking about the stuff that people should be talking about and highlighting. And I think there is the big stigma around the eating disorders of men just in general. Yeah, 100% representation is is focused towards women, not not enough towards men, even, even though, you know, it's it's clear that we do experience it. Yeah, exactly. And I'd probably even say that there's more stigma around that eating disorder sort of space than with mental health. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. You know, a lot of the manly men online might go, oh, bloody get some food in here and do all these stuff, stop eating loads of crap on the night, right? Do you know there is one guy that I like? Well that's easy for you to say because you don't have an eating disorder. There is one guy I like. He's a tit-tock guy, he's the Irish guy. And he doesn't care for his appearance. He doesn't whack off his top and go, yo, look at these abs. He's got his top on and he's not talking about, you know, all of the negatives. And he's talking about, you know, this is how much you actually need to eat if you want to gain even a pound of fat. You know, like, don't be beating yourself up over. And it's them and quite the people that I think we need more of, the people that aren't just, do you know what I mean? But I have since, I really wish I had the guy's name. What's the guy's name? I sent him to you, but he's an Irish guy and he does, he does like his workouts, but he doesn't record like all of that stuff. It's not just that stuff. Where you see like there's so many people that are just normalizing that, yo, if you want to get this way, like we're training, you can't eat that. You can't drink that. You can't, you know, you have to get this much sleep. That really feeds into it as well. Yeah. Doing for an eating disorder. Like, these are bad foods. These are bad foods. Eat these ones should we hope for life and you get fat. I already know, like you're telling someone, like I don't know the calories to like almost every single thing I eat, like, you know. And I think, yeah, I think that online stuff just really doesn't help either. So it's nice that there are things like this, like podcasts like this online that are positive in, in, you know, making people aware. I think it's interesting because with any disorder, any condition, any neurodiversity, people already have kind of assumptions about what you'll be like and who you'll be. And like, the thing is that I've gone through a lot of this stuff and I still struggle with a lot of things and I have my family supporting me with certain things. But at the same time I am doing my podcast. I am doing my online stuff. I am making a business. I do go to the gym. I used to be a combat athlete. You know, I used to fight people in a full contact sport. You know, it's not. It's just because I'm open about how I am and what struggles that I've had. It doesn't automatically remove me from being able to be strong person and a successful person. It's just that stuff and that stuff. It's not this categorization of who I am as a person. It's those experiences that enhance our ability and, you know, the ability to be more powerful. And I think, yeah, we just need to recognize this stuff more, way more than it is. And that's what I want my music to be about, you know? And I want what I do. I don't want my image to be. I'm just, you know, there's so many people that are using their platforms for just the wrong things. And it plays a part in how we're shaping the society we live in and the pressure and the strains that we're putting on everyone. Things are already negative enough, you know? Like, boy, do we have to make them even more negative. I'm saying this like a promise that I'm not gonna like put songs on an album that are gonna make you cry, but I mean it in a positive way, you know? No, it's communicating what words can't do, you know? Singing and creating art. It's, I think for me, you know, when you were talking earlier about sort of how music's been sort of a really big anchor for you. It's the same with me. It's like, I always used to have my headphones on all my earbuds in, listening to like metal or emo rap or at the moment like dark trap. Or like, it's a way for me to kind of going to my own world and I guess it helps when you don't feel like people understand you that you can kind of go to these places that express these emotions that you're feeling and this is someone who you can empathize with. Exactly. Look, I'll see it as I don't really understand me. So how can I expect someone to understand me? But music really understands me. Music helps me to convey everything that I feel, everything that I've experienced. And yeah, it really just enhances to have that power just to want to keep doing it, even though things are hard. I think that's a key point, isn't it, you know? It's, you can still do things and be a certain way but also have things that are latched onto your life and things that are hard and it doesn't take away from any achievements that you make. In fact, it makes it probably a lot more inspiring, you know? Or, you know, it should be something that we look up to as, you know, this is great. And, you know, you struggle with all these mental issues, you struggle with these other things in life, but you're still going and you're still creating things and you're still, you know, on the track. And I think one of the ways that a lot of people fall down nowadays is that we only see everybody on, like, on the podium. You only see only everybody in the highlights, the things they've done. There's so many people in the world and you've filled with all of these amazing moments, experiences, achievements from every single different angle and it can kind of feel very demoralizing, especially when you're not at that point and that you're still in the works. It's like I said on my podcast with Nathan Hall, it's, you know, there's millions of amazing people still in the works, still making their way up and it's that everyday sort of experience. I was gonna say every day, bro. Yeah, but every day, I couldn't have said what you just said, but that's exactly how it is, you know. I say as, you know, say, you know, earlier I said to you, I like to be a perfectionist, but nothing's ever gonna be perfect and every day I'm holding my craft and I'm developing my craft because that's what we're doing. Every day people are taking to things differently and we're experiencing different things alone and different things, so I think, yeah. And life isn't a movie. Life isn't this string together with a narrative that's short and conceivable in an hour and a half. It's life, it's realistic and not everything's wonderful or horrible moment. It's usually lots of different shades of. Blue and gray. You know, gray across the year. Yeah, I see what I'm gonna say. It's really hard to keep in mind, especially if you're not at a place that you want to be. Yeah, 100%. Well, I know we talked about a lot of different things. We have to know what. We have, we have. I do wanna ask about sort of, I do wanna ask about barriers for autistic men seeking mental health support and this could be just for anyone in general. Like just one thing that I would pitch in at the start would be things around relationships in terms of abuse. I know that domestic abuse is very underreported from men's side of things. It's something that I've experienced a lot. I've been in some very tough situations with some very controlling manipulative people and a lot of the time when I tried to seek some support or seek some understanding from the people around me, it wasn't something that was highlighted as an issue for me because of the way that I am. I know it's been emotional and it's also been physical at times in certain relationships. And I've always, you know, whenever I've expressed, you know, the concerns about this to people around me, not everybody, but a lot of people, they're very much under play just how much that can impact you as a person when you experience those things. And so accessing like domestic abuse support and things like that, I think is a really big issue for a lot of autistic men. I think it's just a really, it is, it's this, you don't see it in the media. You don't see it doctors when you see brochures about domestic, you know, with women and holding their phones. Are you going through domestic violence? There's no, well, there's just, there are so many barriers. There aren't enough of that. There aren't, we ain't seen it. So, you know, for some time, it's okay to talk and say things. But I think that we're just really at a time in life right now where the most important thing we should be doing is acting on these things. And, and... Yeah, making changes. Making changes, yeah. And taking these, these things to people where like, I don't know how I could, you know, I don't know how to put this. There are just a lot of barriers, a barrier of barriers. Like, you know, there are a lot of barriers to men's mental health. You don't see, like I said, on posters, on flyers and doctors or on TV ads or on Bossaj, you don't see it. It's, it's not normalized, you know? And I don't want to put that word on it because of how many times we've used that word in context throughout this podcast. But that should be normalized, you know? Like it happens, men do go through mental health. Like why can't help be as accessible as it can for others? And I don't want to do this, why does, I don't want to be stereotypical and be like, you know, or stereotypy even a bit like our, we should have this support or we should have this support. But why shouldn't we all be getting the same support, the same, you know, the same health? Awareness work. Yeah, the same awareness work. Like, I really just hate that there has to be these sorts of conversations in life at all about there not being enough support accessible to the men and their mental health, you know? I've worked with, you know, the crisis team after, you know, trying to overdose and trying to commit suicide. And they've stayed of you for what, a certain amount of time. But then I really do think there's a lot of people that are doing their jobs that don't care for their jobs. If that makes sense, you know, a lot of professionals and people that could be making this change or, you know, well, a lot more than say, you know, non-medical professionals, they have that, you know, that knowledge to say, look, this is where we need to be making change. And there isn't because I think everybody's just a time of the life now where it's just like, I'm just trying to keep my job and get money, get a stable income. And I honestly don't think until... I think there's a lack of accountability as well. Like who makes these, who's responsible for making these changes? Who's responsible for making these stupid decisions? Yeah. I shouldn't need to like have to, like try and stick out of a crowd just to try and get some help. Do you know what I mean? Or I shouldn't have to put myself out on the line just because I'm a male who's in need of help or who's in need of support? Because I don't care if it, what you are. I just acknowledged that things aren't good for it now. And then that this person needs some support. And it should just be as simple as that. I shouldn't, you know, here, it's really just how I feel about it, honestly. I don't know how I could express it. Just peeves me off. You know, I've tried so hard not to swear for you throughout this whole podcast, by the way. But really have so hard. So am I. I think, you know, just in general support for autistic people needs to be improved in terms of. You know, why don't we have any autism mentor specialists? It's something that we had before. Why is that being cut when there is a message for it? Isn't it money? So what it all boils down to is money. And then that pees me off too, because there's so much money just going about the place that I've been put into things that we probably aren't even aware of. And sadly, we live in a country where the support unit is crap. It's we don't, there's not a good support unit for the most people, let alone those that suffer from mental health and have a diagnosis of some form, which, you know, prevents all or makes things that harder for them. And it's just, it's, it's shameful, you know? It's really shameful that we are living still in a world where we have to try and make some, like try and validate ourselves or our opinion and our outlook on things or I don't do that. This is why now I'm like very, if I've got something to say, I'll say it. And if something affects me, then I need to not be annoyed at myself because it's affected me, but be like, you know, it's not my fault that this is what it gets to me. I'm just, that's how I'm wired up sort of thing. Like, and there shouldn't be no shame in that. And that goes for men and the mental health. And I think I just think people need to just start talking more. And it's exactly why I've done this today. I want, I don't appreciate. No, I appreciate you even having me on here. Like, I don't want my music to just be, or have these opportunities just because I'm a musician that's autistic and likes to sing. I want to be able to be like, I'm really just genuinely, yeah, yeah, I'm really just genuinely inspired by stories like yours and stories like Kelly Sonasker. Like I'm inspired by them stories and the, just the love from that and the beautifulness in that stuff. And how can, I mean, for the first time when I seen you post about RSD, I'm like, yo, I'm so glad that I'm not the only one that thinks this isn't like spoken about enough. And, yeah, I think it was like this. We experienced so much rejection in life. Yeah, and you would think that. From all sides. But I didn't know that that was common in ADHD. I didn't know that that existed. And now I do, but bear in mind, it's not something that I've just been dealing with now. I've been dealing it with my whole life. It's just that now I've been made aware where really I should have known about that a lot earlier than I did, but that's because people aren't touching on the topics that do have positive impacts and affect people in different ways. Like, you know, we take the positives from the negatives and sometimes that's just really hard to do. It's just really hard to do, but we try. Well, I know we've talked about a lot of different things and, you know, I would really like to take this opportunity for you to share some of your work, share some of your music. Because I, for me, there was a particular song, which, you know, really sort of, it was Zenwai, and it touched me very, very deeply. And I think I was like, you know, I was talking to my family and I was like, oh my God, this, have you heard this guy? And I was like, I played the song and they were like, oh, they're really good. Like, oh, I'm very, like so much emotion and like individuality in their voice. And I was like, well, guess what? I'm going to have them on the podcast at some point. Oh my God, they were autistic, they do all this stuff. And it did it, like I played it. You know, I have it part of my playlists and I listen to it very much. It touches me deeply and, you know, I would really like to, if you're happy with it, to add that to the song of the day playlist that I have. 100%, it's on Spotify as well. So it's just, yeah, why not? So add that to the playlist, which is always down in the description if you want to find it. You may have to scroll right down to the bottom, but you'd be able to find that playlist if you want to check it out. Kieran, I'm just wondering like, what was the, I don't know if you want to speak on it, but what was kind of like the ignition or the meaning behind the NYN song? If you're happy with talking about it. Oh yeah, of course. It was actually about being autistic for nearly enough and relationships and, you know, taking to things in a way that people around me don't specifically like, well, I won't put specifics on it, but, you know, like for any autistic individual that's even, you know, had the success of a relationship and I don't know what, it's hard for the person with or without autism. And it was kind of like me trying to make an excuse like, so one of the lyrics are, now I know you mean how it seems to me or now I know you mean how it seemed to me. And that was me saying, like, well, I'm off getting my own lyrics. So it goes, so it goes, you probably didn't, you probably didn't mean how it seemed to me. And then it goes, then further on it goes, now I know you, you know, it meant what it seemed to me and it's just, you know, and what it is about, you know, being autistic and struggling with relationships and, you know, knowing that certain words I've only said out of anger and not because of the men and then, you know, just the way we interpret information and relationships and then, you know, it being actually, maybe it is what I meant, but you're my support unit and I need you now. And that's what it's about. And all of the... I definitely felt that from listening to it. Yeah, that was the really one of, I say all of them are really, a lot of them were hard to record just because of the emotions. I mean, I say I'm shaking at the end of my end and it was because it was a, it was almost a one tape recording and I'm like, yo, if I'm in the studio, I don't want to do things just one take, but, you know, when... Yeah. Artistically, when you're in the studio and it's like, okay, I didn't actually mean for it to... I don't like that, but it's just... It's kind of like together in that way. Yeah, yeah, it really just, it just fit in with what I was doing. And yeah, it's a special song to me. It was my first single. I can't say I like it as much now. But yeah, it... Definitely a brilliant place to start off, I'd say. Thank you. It's pretty up there in terms of quality. Like, I think it's amazing. Thank you. I just really can't wait to start being more active in, you know, doing things like this and being a bit more of a voice and, you know, doing more music. And my album is coming this year without a doubt. And I can't wait for the people that I hope it helps. I mean, just to even know that NYN somehow, you know, reached out to means for me that, okay, then I got what I wanted, I accomplished that from NYN. I was able to help just... No, you definitely have the talent. You have everything that I would, you know, say that... You know, would make you a great music artist. Like, you've got the individual voice, you know, you've got great pitch and emotion in your words and you, you know, with the lyrics and... Yeah, and I even go so far, like, I don't understand why you haven't got into modeling yet because you are like the... You have the... You definitely have the aesthetic to get into those kind of spaces. You should think about doing that. I was actually thinking, my room is really quite small. I want to build a studio out of the back because I really want to do for my album. I just want to do, you know, a digital release. I want to do a physical release too. So there's a lot of, like, art that I want in there and that, you know, back then I didn't, you know, I didn't used to feel comfortable in my image or how I looked or, you know, I used to think, yo, I'm not a good looking chap at all. And we get comfortable and then we really start to... How do I explain it? You know, fashion to me, like, I love my clothes. I love my clothes. And that was because it's almost like something I'm fixated on. I just love it a lot. And when I do that, I always link it to, like, say my music and I'm happy for, like, to get into, like, a room with photographers, even though that... Have you touched this overwhelming? I went out... Did you know that there's a video out to NYN? And when that was... It's on the Jack mental health platform, but it's just not on YouTube yet. So it's only accessible there. But when I'd done that, you know, cameras, it was so close to me and it was scary, but I think, you know, you're saying that because I'm going off topic just ever so slightly, is that we hone our craft and our art and our music together and that helps to really, you know, like express a story, you know, and I want to be able to do that in a feasible copy. So I have got some, like, some photos and stuff. I think even, you know, going probably a bit further than that, I think you could probably get a lot of PR and sort of advocacy work out there from doing, you know, trying to link up with some modeling agencies because I think you could really do well with that kind of stuff. See, how great is this guy? How great is this guy? Great. I've just been honest. Like, I don't do people's arms for no reason, but yeah, I think you could definitely do that kind of thing. Thanks, man. Considering, you know, that was, it's when, you know, growing up and we spoke earlier about, you know, not feeling comfortable in body imaging. When you get to a point in your life where you're like, you know, okay, there are still some really issues. Like, you know, earlier I said some days I wake up and I feel fat, like, and I'm beating myself up with my head and I'm like, but I'm not fat. I don't have that. I feel fat today. I looked at myself in the mirror today and it was like. It's so horrible when you feel like that, isn't it? It's the worst thing when you feel like that and it's not true. And I don't have that with my clothes, you know? I don't have that thought when I'm, you know, it's when I can see that it's like, you know? So, clothing's become like a bit of a powerful thing for me because that helps me to express myself too, just like me, it does like, yeah, man. Yeah, that's how I feel about it. Just on a personal question, like I know that a lot of autistic people, we can tend to struggle with like sharp pain and just because I'm thinking of getting like another piercing at some point. How much did the nose piercings hurt? Which one, one, two, or three? Oh, any of them, just like me, though. This eye didn't hurt. I can't lie, the septum really hurt, but that's because where they pierced that bit more is just quite small. So that's why that hurt, but I've had a total of about 10 piercings. Wow. I've got my trigger. I've already got one in my lobe and that was like, that was just an absolute shock. Everyone was telling me it wasn't gonna hurt. You know, I know it's gonna hurt. This is gonna be too bad. Yeah, well, I was your guy. I didn't want tattoos. I didn't want piercings over them all on here. Me too. And now it's like, I have tattoos and I have piercings. And for me, it's like, you know, if I go through a traumatic experience, I get them and then my trophies and it doesn't hurt. I feel like it's a trophy to me. And I know that's a little bit weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if I'm, I mean, I'm over doing a tattoo desperately, I've been waiting for my tattoo artist, I'm gonna get some, some like black demon wings across my back. Yeah. Cause I've only got one tattoo and I had it done in Thailand by a monk. It's like imbued with some kind of spiritual energy or something, maybe like a ceremony. That's wicked. I got it, I actually got it. I got it after, cause I was in Thailand and my granddad passed away when I was away. And I didn't sort of manage to, he was diagnosed with lung cancer and I didn't manage to get back to him, back to home for, for when he passed away, which was, which was hard for me. So the way that I sort of dealt with that experience and sort of commemorated him was by getting this tattoo because it was kind of something that I was really scared about. And it hurt us. Oh my God. It hurts so much with this steel needle and the hammer that they use. Oh my God, a steel hammer and needle. Yeah, it was over my spine as well. So it was like in the middle of my back. All right, well, I promise you now you won't be getting that at any tattoo shop. You won't be getting that at any tattoo shop. No, Pearson's, some heart more than others. Some heart more than others. The ear, like the lobes, they don't heart. Where your tragus and your helix, that hurts. It's pain that lasts for seconds. And if you like a Pearson, once you've had it, then, you know, that's, that's it. You kind of like almost get addicted. Like I'm done for the Pearson's now. So I hope for now, for now, for a lot of, I don't know what else I could really get. Pearson, there isn't, you know, I don't, I think there's, there's getting Pearson and then there's getting Pearson. You know, and people take, protect it to the extreme at times. Yeah. And yeah, man, I have to deserve, like, you know, it's a reward if we're going to get a tattoo. Like they're paying trophies and I've just looked at them ever since like that and it makes me feel good. Makes me feel good, man. Yeah. If I don't have, if I have a day where there's no Pearson's in it, it doesn't feel, it doesn't feel right. It feels horrible. Weird. I think they're getting like a, like a nose ring, like on the side, like you have, I think. Really? If it's what you want, do it. I don't, I don't know though. Maybe. It don't hurt. I'll think about it. If they do it with a gun, it's not good, but if they do it with a needle, it's good. We'll see. I'll think about it a bit more and I still need to get these, these wings, which I'm really excited about. Cause I've got some really bad like shoulder acne scars from when I was younger, I used to have really bad acne and they still do to a certain extent, but these acne scars, they're real big light insecurity in mine. So I really want to, you don't want to get them lasered off or get a tattoo. And I think I want a tattoo anyway. So it's, you know, it might be, might be a good way for me to go. But yeah, just for, for our listeners, I guess where, where can people find you? Like, where would be the place that you'd want people to go to? If people have even remotely liked the sound of my voice throughout this podcast or haven't even, you know, talked to anything that I've said, then they can find me at MrKirinly.org.uk or MrDuckKirinly is all of my social handles. Same for Spotify, it's Kirinly. Yeah. I definitely get you, get you, check out the website, it looks amazing. And also they're definitely the music. You need to listen to Kirin's music. And as I said, it will be down in the description in the song of the day if you want to go check that out. And if you have enjoyed this episode of the Forty Autie podcast, make sure to give it a like, comment down below something, it could be anything, give Moji a blue heart, something like that. Definitely a blue heart. It really helps move the algorithm. And if you've liked this and you're listening on a podcasting streaming service like Spotify, give it a rate, give it a like. That really helps me get pushed up the algorithm and gets these types of messages, this type of content out to more people who might really need it. I'll also link this on my website as well. So get me the URL's and I'll make sure that it goes on my website and my platforms. Oh, thank you, Matt. I'll get you like the embed link or something. Oh, okay. Yeah, that'd be great, man. Great. And if you wanna check out my own, my work, my daily blogs, you can find those over on my Instagram account at Thomas Henley UK. I am on other social media platforms, but Instagram usually is the place to go. TikTok, YouTube Shorts. If you wanna check out the shorter sort of clips that I have from different podcasting episodes, those are over on my YouTube channel as well. If you feel like you really wanna get the messages out of a podcast and you don't have time to listen to the entire thing, that would be the place to go. And yeah, I really hope you have enjoyed this episode. And Kiran, how have you enjoyed your 40 or two experience? Yeah, you know, this has been something that big. Really nervous, but really excited to do. It's been challenging. It's been emotional, but it's been something that I remember for the rest of my life, because we always start somewhere and I'm glad that whilst I'm starting my thing that I was able to do and be a part of something like this that I know will help so many. So yeah, it's powerful. So thanks for having me now. Thanks for having me. Thank you, Kiran. Anyway, I hope you have enjoyed this episode and I will see you next week for another episode of the 40 or two podcast. See you later, guys. To you.