 My name is Evan Litwin. I use he-him pronouns. I am a member of the steering committee for our new North End or Ward 4 and 7 NPA And I'm joined also with my members who are here my fellow members Jeff is at the Miller Center holding things down. Thank you Jeff and Olivia Taylor also. Thank you for being here She's gonna help facilitate some of our conversation later today And just a really quick Kind of rundown is that we normally at our usual meetings will we'll run around and go around and Invite folks to introduce themselves just for a time's sake tonight. We're gonna actually forgo that so that we can Jump right in to all the amazing speakers and and make sure there's enough time for community conversation and Additionally We just ask that you either share the street that you live on or if you're not comfortable sharing the street You can also share the neighborhood that you live in just so that we know where folks are joining us from And that can help later on as well if we have a lot of folks join us So we don't know and I see this already quite a few people popping in right now so We do have one announcement before I open it up to announcements for for everyone which is that Ward 4 is Accepting interest for the community block. I'm gonna get this wrong the community block groups block grant committee something to that effect to help Basically help us decide how to spend our community block grant dollars so If you're interested in that, please get in touch with either our city councilors or members of the NPA And we've also posted it on front porch forum recently with lots of information. It's on the CEDA website And we also have it in the Facebook group for the new north end as Per usual we just ask that you be respectful when other folks are talking that you be mindful if your microphone is on or off and That's about it. Just just remember we're all neighbors here and we're all here because we care about our community And we all have a shared interest in making sure that it is safe and that is my dog squeaky toy So I will turn it right over To the next person on the agenda, which is usually our elected officials So whoever would like to go first, please do or wait actually if there are any other announcements That folks wanted to add that were important That community block grant was for Ward 4 only we do have a representative for Ward 7 just To make sure everyone knows that. Yep. Absolutely. Thank you Evan. I just would invite everybody I'm Cindy White with Berlin Tim Park Rec and Waterfront and but also a Ward 7 resident I welcome everybody a 315 tomorrow will be doing the opening up of the bike path out in the south end The north end got the full treatment earlier, but the south end will be opening up tomorrow At 315 and we welcome everybody from the north end to come down to the south end Enjoying the festivities. I'll be 315 at the Austin Drive entrance in Oak Lodge Awesome, thank you. Martin. I saw your hand up. Did you feel free to jump in? Thank you Yeah, I was gonna ask Sarah if she would like to start go before me and I also wanted to just Give a shout out to the folks who made our new branch of the Fletcher free library Available which open today very exciting if you haven't checked it out. I highly recommend a visit Yeah, and thank you for everyone who moved boxes Cool, well, then we'll move right into it and Sarah. I hear you got nominated to lead us off kick us off this evening Okay Thank you Sarah carpenter Ward 4 City Councilor And I was always glad to be here. We're gonna try to be really quick tonight There's as always a lot of stuff going on the city council Level Among other things we're gonna start budgeting for next year. So Hard to believe that but We're already beginning that process So obviously let us know what you're thinking Um, two issues I wanted to mention tonight because they're really I think public safety related and We won't have time to spend a lot of time on them on this agenda But one is that this last budget year we set aside funding for something called the cahoots program and It's really a crisis intervention and it was started out in Eugene, Oregon where their police department Has a has a group of folks that do crisis intervention They're staffed with a medical person a mannequin nurse and a crisis intervention person And it's a it's a really fabulous model. It's been done in a lot of communities And we were a little slow in the get-go to get started But the RFP is out now We the city has some money in it and we're working closely with the medical center hospital and Howard and the street work program and police department and trying to put that together and we hope And this will be critical. We're gonna need some funding from the state to really make it work. So It's a it's a work in progress there are a few of our neighbors who have been strong advocates for this program and We They've been really integral. So I just wanted to let you know that it's in the works and it's I think it's going to be a key Program to add to our public safety programs as we look at transforming things The other really hot button issue this last month and several months. It has been our homeless crisis This is really not new news Unfortunately quite sadly, it's not new news and we're struggling with what are the right? options that the city can can Offer I'm expecting the mayor to make some announcements yesterday yesterday tomorrow Some programs that we are going to try to support Using some of our ARPA money is the highest priority or the flexible ARPA money. We have different paths for different things Is to try to beef up some of our services for the houseless? It's a regional problem. It's not just a brilliant problem, but we need Better options than what we've got and there isn't an easy answer. I mean, obviously not having enough housing is Is the answer? But what do we do tomorrow when somebody has nowhere at all to go? And so we want to work with the Chittenden County Homeless Alliance and others to really Tighten that up and beef that up to see if we can get some quicker faster answers and so maybe some more innovative answers So that's for me a really high priority. I sit on the CD in our committee and We're meeting tomorrow to flush out some of those and unfortunately have some updates because there's several programs That the state has stepped back on and we're concerned about that in particular some of the funding for the Turning Point Center, which does opioid interventions and a change in policy in Providing transitional housing for people released from the correctional system So we've got a lot in our place to figure out how we can we can tackle that Since we haven't got a lot of time. I'll let my colleagues You know offer other things but I'm always open for questions Mark did you wanna? Sure, I was just I saw how jam-packed the agenda is tonight. I was gonna Just say that I would Forfeit my time to make sure that we get to all the speakers and but I'm also happy to answer any questions So well, we have time if you if there's anything you want to add after feel free and thanks for being here and Martin that makes you next Thank You Evan. Can you all hear me? Wonderful, so I'm here tonight on behalf of the three new North End school commissioners myself Kendra Sowers and Monica Ivanchich. I'm speaking for the three of us Obviously the safety of our students and our school district employees is of the utmost importance to the school board and the superintendent As you can imagine one of the greatest challenges over this past year has been keeping our students and staff safe during this pandemic been a long couple of years our Nurses and maintenance staff have done an amazing job following best practices in state and federal guidelines But we want to urge the public to get vaccinated get boosted Wear masks indoors and practice social distancing To keep all of our students safe to keep our staffs safe our teachers as well You know, there are students who are having to miss school because of of COVID infections. So Just a reminder on that hugely important I always like to take a minute and just remind folks to please drive carefully around our schools We all know that there are folks who drive extremely fast in our city as well as Recklessly and especially in the morning in the afternoon when school lets out. It's critical that folks are paying attention Lastly we want to acknowledge the safety of our high school students and our high school staff The BHS downtown location has been a great interim. Well, maybe not great. It's been a good interim solution for us But the new north end school commissioners look forward to the day when we can walk from both our VHS and VTC students back to one campus on Institute Road We'd like to remind the community that although we've vacated the building most recently due to the contaminants the presence of PCBs and the air and the materials The buildings and I say buildings because as you all know, there are five of them that make up the campus Uh, we're not and are not safe The Institute Road campus is not ADA compliant Um, it makes traveling from class to class extremely difficult for those with mobility issues um, as many of you know the roof is Falling apart and on any given day there was water strewn in many of the parts of the school The antiquated HVAC system caused fluctuations in heating and cooling That were frankly unsafe for some of our students as well and windows encasements were Literally falling falling out of the walls of the building At last count, I believe there were 24 ways to get in the building Again an extremely unsafe scenario um, and because of these critical safety factors We want to fully acknowledge and support the plan to build a new high school Institute Road We will be talking about this obviously more in the future, but last night we did hire an architect firm to to start work on this and we just you know look to our community for support and Obviously we'll welcome creative ways To to look at funding because this is good. This will be a heavy lift for our community And that's all I have. I really appreciate the time And please reach out if you have any questions Thank you, martin and thank you for everything that the school board has been doing. You guys have had an amazing run for sure and so I'll Welcome shireen heart And she's going to share a powerpoint great Thanks evan and i'm hoping you can see it now Yes, okay great and i'm just going to invite you to interrupt me when What time do you want me to stop talking? You've got about seven minutes any minute or two over. I think we can okay just interrupt me if I go over So I just want to start by saying thank you for having me. I live in the new north bend Um, I've been on i'm serving my second term on the police commission. I'm just speaking individually I'm not speaking on behalf of the whole commission just my personal views um We don't represent all of the wards. You'll see that kevin garrison and I are in ward seven. That's not They don't look necessarily to get folks from different wards and kevin and I are neighbors Um four people have their terms up in june So they're I don't know if folks are planning to seek to be reappointed or not So typically we meet the fourth tuesday of each month at 6 p.m We recently moved from the burlington police department's community room to Controyes auditorium generally speaking And I just gave a link to where you could find the agenda in the minutes on board docs So I would say over the last couple of years. We've been working on changing and improving the commission And we recently engaged naco, which is the national association for civilian oversight of law enforcement We did eight hours of training with them on how to effectively fulfill our role as an oversight body Um, their mission is to create a community of support for independent civilian oversight entities That seek to make local law enforcement agencies more transparent accountable and responsive to the community And our engagement of naco also includes 10 hours of consultation And we most recently used that for an hour session to talk about what is the best way To proceed in reviewing directives The police department's directive. So that was really helpful So what we do if I can summarize it or sum it up in the easiest way is we review complaints that either come in externally or internally To the department and we offer recommendations to the chief on his proposed response to the complaints And we review and revise policies and department directives with the department Um, about how policing is conducted So what if we learn I would say We've learned that it's really important that the police commission looks independent and that appearances do matter So for example, we've been meeting at the police department We've changed that because folks just assume that we are part of the police department and I think it leaves leaves room for folks to speculate like at one point They thought our chair was a member of the police department So, um, I think one of the biggest things we've learned is it's necessary to show our independence so that we can Earn the community's trust and we're also working on getting we've gotten approved to have a staff member Who's not from within the police department to help us with some of the work we need to do And so on the public trust We're working on building that as I said and we're trying to be more transparent and Share what we do and and bring the public into that So when we do directives one of the things we learned from that reason Training is that the public really needs to be able to be involved in our policy work So the commission with the department and the public so at a certain point in the process of working on directives Or policies of the department will bring the public in And then we very quickly there is a joint committee You may have heard about that produced that big report the cna report and that was because after the george void killing We engaged we wanted to have an assessment of the department it resulted in 151 recommendations And I have a link to that the department we had a meeting last night We know that they are actively working the chief is actively working on that and we um The public safety committee of the city council is also going to be working on that By putting together two police commissioners a representative of the police department and possibly some others and they're starting in january to actively work on Going over all of those recommendations And how they're going to be implemented So very quickly a typical police commission meeting is starts with police commission business then we have public forum We have the chief's report last night. He did an excellent presentation. It was a slide deck with crime statistics and race data Um, I recommend you go to the board docs for that and access his report And his monthly reports differ based on what's going on in the city And then we as a fairly new commission over the last year have always tried Well, I say always in the last year at every meeting we try to have an educational component So a half an hour And last night we were really lucky to have one of the new Community support liaisons and I know that lacy an is going to be talking about that later on in the meeting But we had one of the individuals who recently was hired for that role and he spoke about when he used to be at the Howard center doing Street outreach what kind of de-escalation training he got and what kind of training he's gotten with the burlington police department So last night's focus on education was de-escalation and we offered that for ourselves and for the community And then we have policy discussion. So what are we going to do about various? department policies and so We formed a subcommittee that's starting in january and we're going to first work on the policies about interacting with persons with disabilities persons with diminished capacities and interacting with Limited english proficiency and we'll be working with someone from the department Should be on that committee with us And as well as folks with subject matter expertise And then we get a presentation and writing that you can access use of force which is in the Previous month all use of force that occurred and we get a summary It doesn't have names of the individuals involved But it will provide race data on them and it gives a summary of the use of force And we can request any of the related videos and soon those videos will be released to the public as soon as the department's able to hire someone to redact the videos for privacy And then we also get to hear about commendations every month, which is you know Letters of praise of the department from members of the public or even from within the department And that's always nice to hear And I will wrap up and then we go into executive session, which is where we talk about individual complaints And we can talk about details and names in that And so we'll talk about the chief will tell us what he's recommending and we have the opportunity to discuss that So the chief could either say I don't want to spend too much time because i'm wrapping up But he might find that there's just simply nothing to the complaint like we got a complaint last night that someone there was a police officer in South burlington not wearing a mask in a store. Well We don't even know if it was a burlington officer was so there's nothing to do with that one Or the chief might say it's unfounded. It didn't happen He might say it's sustained and then we will recommend if we disagree And we can't come to an agreement with the chief then it will go to the mayor Um, and so this is my last slide and how I view our approach is that we are seven Individuals with different views and different voices I actually don't even know the political parties if any of the folks i'm sitting with truly I don't know that about them, but we try to find consensus when we're at odds as as a Group and I have found that's worked really well for us We're I feel like we're a high functioning group in terms of getting to Consensus and I would say there's a great deal of respect for the department and the individuals And we balance that with an interest in making improvements where we think they can be made And we're committed to gaining the public's trust. So I know that was a lot I'm happy to share this with anyone if I spoke way too quickly, but thank you for having me here tonight I will get out of that document as soon as I can figure out how Sure, thank you so much. I know you can't stay with us this evening for until the q&a period So is there a way if somebody would had a question about something that you shared tonight? Is there a way that folks could contact you? Yes, um Yes, I can give my email now to folks because it's super simple. It's shireen s h i r i n At shireen.com. So shireen at shireen.com both times That's an old one. It's from the early 90s Um, and I am happy to have you tell me if you want that slide deck I I literally just threw it together tonight because I thought it might be easier Um to talk about things. So thanks so much for having me tonight Thank you and thanks for being on that commission. It looks like it does a lot of good work Okay So um, we have our staff from parks and rec We have Cindy and possibly An exciting new guest. Yeah, so i'm Cindy white the director for burlington parks rec and waterfront Um, I we are very excited about our new urban park ranger program, but i'm going to hand the Hand the bell hand the baton over to erin morrow erin is our waterfront superintendent and our harbour master And that program of the department will be overseeing the urban Ranger program and erin just did a great job last night talking about the program with our parks commission So erin i'll hand it over to you Great. Thanks, indy I have one erin morrow also new north end resident ward seven revere court. So hello neighbors Um, yeah, so I guess i'm finding my land legs I'm usually more or less on the water side of things but uh, the urban park rangers is a new program within our department Really excited about it. You know bottom line What I see that this is going to do is to get more people into our parks We know a positive presence yields Better results for uh actions in our parks. We want everyone our community our visitors tourists Kids to enjoy their time and in the park system here And we want to try to tamp down some of those unwanted behaviors. So we're really looking towards the urban Park ranger program to help us with this It would be ultimately right now two full-time members A lead ranger and a ranger and then we'll also employ some seasonal staff Within this program and the intention is to to get out to get outside and be in our parks um You know how folks Be aware obviously the staff would be aware of our ordinances. So some of those You know, I don't even want to say pesky because I think their quality of life issues such as fireworks off leash dogs You know fires on our beaches, right? So the the smoke that we all uh, We all can smell in the summertime We'd really like to do Burlington fire favor and reduce those and and help out our neighbors So we're going to program these folks to be later into the evening when we know that Um, more of a presence would be wanted and needed and we know that if there's a positive presence in the parks Typically unwanted behavior doesn't start. So that is our intention with it. This is new. So, you know, open eyes Open ears very welcome to feedback But we're really really excited because the first position just posted this week So a lot of work has gone into that process to get to this point um The person who will oversee the rangers is Alec Keating He was previously our campground manager and has expanded his role. So One he's really used to busy areas that uh, our high engagement with our customers and not afraid of inserting himself into Um, so, you know, some tough conversations Think north beach summer college has just let out and you're the one person to have all those conversations. So He's not shy about it But he has just a really amazing calm demeanor And I know that's going to be spread throughout our rangers. So, you know future kind of what we're looking at is um First and foremost, we want these rangers to have really great communication skills. Um, you know are kind of thinking Being out there and really just engaging with people It's it's welcoming to the park whether they have a question whether they want to know where the restrooms are Or perhaps the history of our park. So we've kind of left the background piece open meaning You know the What we're looking for in the candidates is pretty wide, you know I think that could be anyone from a naturalist to someone who's been in a park system In vermont or another state or someone who's a really big history buff that can connect Some of our histories Through our parks program. So pretty wide ranging because we're really just looking for a really great communicator to You know as a liaison from our department to the to the community I see a future here of programming. So I think be really cool to have a park ranger meet in our schools and Set up some programming where we can get field trips into our various parks We are really lucky that we have so many neighborhood parks close to our schools So that shouldn't be difficult to do that get kids outside and get them connected with this program We're also open to see what other opportunities, you know, we've heard about Guided programs through the cemeteries as a possibility and We're really just open to some of these opportunities that we see we're just really excited to get A greater positive presence into our parks I'll stick around as best as I can here for the the question where we're falling at kids bedtime But I think I can squeak it out again And thank you for your time. I appreciate that as a neighbor Great and then we have our team from bpd next on the agenda Hello, everybody. I'm lacy benny I know you're out there somewhere Um, I am Do you want to go first or shall I? You can go ahead lacy. All right So I'm lacy Smith I am the community support supervisor formally the community affairs liaison For the city of burlington at the burlington police department So I've been in this position for seven years now and In layman terms, I am the city's social worker I was the only one for the last seven years, but now I have a team of three that joined me One of them who spoke at the commission Uh, yesterday was formally a howards center street outreach worker We have another young lady whose background is from Uh, the refugee resettlement program in the reach-up program And then we have the third person who came from the parallel justice program Um over at the cjc So they have been up and running since october and luckily, um, They had the ability to just basically hit the ground running. They know the community They know what the job really entails Um, so as social workers, we basically, uh, the premise of the job is really based on this idea of Um, we are both doing reactive work in proactive work the reactive side of our jobs are Consist of like in the moment needs so they Call comes into dispatch We get set up sent out either with an officer in lieu of an officer if we could go out a shoot outreach we could go out um With oh gosh, I was gonna say there's one other Oh the community service officers as, uh, Vinnie will talk about So we kind of can go out in a combination of or independently to, uh calls for service that come in in the moment but then we're also um We also do kind of the proactive work and that is really the The really the meat of what we do. It's the follow-up. It's building the relationships It is what allows us to really try to help change the behaviors that steer people out of This system that they are currently kind of spiraling in so we're intentional about who we are making connections with um, and we use data around that And yeah, so there's a multitude of ways to get in touch with us. You can either call the department Um, I am on the phone tree If you called the non-emergency line, we have a group email. We will at some point soon Um be up on the website Uh, so yeah, I'm I look forward to taking questions. Do you want to give your spiel? I can um, so My name is i'm sergeant vinny ross vinny ross whatever you want to call me Uh, I've been at the pd since 2015 and I've been a sergeant since uh this past july And recently I was assigned as the community service officer supervisor As that program is going to start getting a little bit bigger. Um, so the community service officers are another police support position Um, you've probably seen them, uh driving around in their big white truck They go to animal complaints Uh, vin verifications Uh, a lot of our priority three calls. Uh, that are non-criminal. They'll start to go to Um, something new that we're gonna that we have already started rolling out for them is going to non-investigated crashes So crashes, uh, where a pedestrians not hurt where nobody in the car is hurt and where the damage is minor um, our newest cso's are Uh, going to those and our cso's that we've had for a while have started To go to them as well with the uh change in job description um they're also, uh going to be enforcing some city ordinances like the drinking ordinances some of the quality quality of life issues downtown on church street with some of the unpermitted, um Musicians, uh and some of the stuff down there that we've been getting a lot of complaints about recently Um, and then noise complaints So they've started going to noise complaints Uh, in the past our cso program has only worked from 10 in the morning till eight at night But now they're working we have two shifts. So there's a 7 30 to 5 30 and then we have The newest two based on seniority are working from 4 p.m. Until 2 a.m We've been authorized by the city council to have up to 12. I think we have hired one more I'm not totally sure on that But the the plan is by the end of fiscal year 22 we can Have up to 12. I believe Looking forward to answering some questions Awesome. Thank you so much and next is Rachel jolly from the community justice center Thank you Hi everyone. My name is Rachel jolly. I use she her pronouns I'm the director at the community justice center in burlington, which is part of cito community and economic development office I thought it would um Make sense to describe the kind of nest we sit in and then describe a little bit more about what we do We are um about 23 years old. We're the oldest community justice center in the state of vermont Many don't know but there are 17 community justice centers four of which are in chinning county and burlington is one We're also one of many one of 12 court diversion agencies. And so the difference there is that deos the department of corrections funds at least in parts the those community justice centers And then the attorney general's office funds five programs that make up court diversion and pretrial service programs And i'll describe what these are, but i'm just kind of describing the scope of the the network in which we sit um And so we are both a court diversion agency as well as a community justice center We're a combined agency and we're one of seven combined agencies in the state And so we do serve all of chinning county with those court diversion and pretrial service programs And then burlington for our doc funded programs. So again part of the network, but now Getting back to who we are and what we do. So we've always been part of cito We've been in five different locations actually currently We're at 200 shirt street about a mile or about a block away from city hall So where the rest of cito the cito department is Our mission is around addressing the roots and Roots of crime and conflict so that everyone experiences dignity safety and justice in the communities we serve So we do also Kind of like you were hearing from the cso as we do or from lacy We do proactive work as well as reactive work So we use restorative principles and restorative justice and for those who aren't familiar with that term It's a relationship based approach to one building community and a sense of voice and belonging and then So that relationships are stronger and that they have they they make a foundation so that when there is conflict Or or even crime and generally you can count on that there will be a when rather than an if When there is conflict if there are relationships there then people care enough about those relationships to want to repair them so the That's restorative practices is kind of the big umbrella that uses various principles of engagement Responsibility or you can alternate that with accountability and Equity so it's it's where everybody has a voice and we definitely rely on kind of collaboration and engagement in that way so we use restorative principles for most of our programs and restorative justice is the modern movement of Taking restorative principles and putting them into the western criminal justice system So restorative justice in its most traditional sense has been practiced for thousands of years Anywhere there's indigenous communities across the globe they've used some form of this more holistic form of traditional justice So restorative justice in the way that i'm using it in the way that you might be hearing it talked about a lot in the public safety dialogues Around the country is more of a western contemporary movement That you can contrast with the criminal justice system or the traditional criminal legal system In this way the traditional system generally asks three questions What law was broken or what rule was broken if you take it to the schools? Who did it and what punishment do they deserve and generally our american criminal legal system does Equate punishment with accountability or with justice in a more restorative approach You're going to be asking different questions Still what went wrong or what rule was broken what what happened who was impacted What are their needs and whose obligation is it to meet those needs? So it's a more holistic approach that again in the when contrasted with the criminal justice system Includes the community as an impacted party and of course includes the victim or the direct impacted party from a crime Whereas the traditional system It's generally the state versus the defendant or state versus john doe In that the victim is intake taken entirely out of it So their wants and needs are not necessarily considered at all Whereas restorative justice definitely looks at the impact of crime and who is impacted at a larger sense So you have a direct victim and then you have the community as well represented So our programs range like I said from the proactive side, which is mostly in the schools as you Might know the burlington school district is really embracing restorative practices and taking it on at a district level So one of our staff members is embedded in the two middle schools hunt and admins In using restorative practices both to to build community But also to repair harm And then most of our programs are in a reactive level after a crime or conflict occurs or after harm occurs and those Also come at various stages of the criminal legal system from the earliest stage, which would be pre-charge Before it gets to the state's attorney's office direct from burlington police department or uvm police They can refer directly to us or post charge But pre-arrainment and that's where most of our court diversion programs fall Or post charge post-arrainment and we can get referrals from probation and parole through a judge court order So again, it's not necessary restorative justice doesn't necessarily come as an either or with the traditional criminal legal system It can in some cases be a compliment too and one of the Misnomers I think about restorative justice is that it's light on crime or it's a slap on the wrist And then it's light on accountability and if you equate accountability with punishment then that Truly may be a conclusion you reach But if you're looking for somebody to answer to what they did to maybe face directly sometimes literally in the same room to the person that they harmed or persons and maybe have to Seek to repair and take on the the reparations for What the harm was then you might think that restorative justice is pretty high on accountability And the current state's attorney sarah george actually challenges people who might have that perspective that it's light on crime To go sit into an average arraignment and an average or even a trial And look at what is asked of the responsible party, which is often sometimes nothing a lawyer can speak through through You know for them directly. They may never have to look Talk about what they did they if they have means then paying a fine might be a punishment that really doesn't hurt that much And sometimes as we know incarceration Also has a heavy toll on the community and as well as the responsible party and those around them And doesn't necessarily take in the impacted party or the victims needs So um compare that arraignment or trial to a restorative Justice process and then see what you think about accountability Another misnomer too is that it might be best for low level crimes or misdemeanors only but actually in um places where that Uses restorative practices one of its defaults in like new zealand Or in many even nonprofits in california and new york There's examples where restorative justice is used for the highest level of crime the most violent of crimes And that's where it's often seen as being most useful because It comes into play really when victims are heavily impacted and need a voice and need answers to their questions And so I would just counter another if anybody has the misperception that it's only best for quote low level crimes To maybe challenge that thinking and i'm happy to provide resources about examples of the way it's done in other states Or other countries as well so we provide I was talking about the various stages of the criminal legal system and and last mentioned post Charge and post-raiment and then I would say finally we also do reentry work in terms of after somebody is Incarcerated after they've served their sentence and they're coming back into the community Especially for folks who are deemed high risk or high need by the department of corrections We have a program called circles of support and accountability And that's often used for people who have committed sex offenses or other crimes where they are perceived by as high risk Perhaps for recidivism not necessarily of that same crime, but because of the Various kind of conditions put on them in terms of the parole that they're or the Furlough status the the rest of their the remainder of their sentence that they might be serving in the community And the various restrictions that they have on where they can go where they can live where they can work They might be at risk of recidivating in some way So that program COSA is made to help them, you know, they've already served their punishment So it's not about accountability for their crime because that's already been answered to by societies you know step like kind of in their in the terms of them serving a Incarcerative sentence, but it's about accountability and support as they rebuild their lives So there's that continuum and I also I'm happy to answer questions But I did want to just mention our website, which gives quite a bit of information about the about 10 programs that we offer And that's it bro. Uh, www burlington cjc.org Thank you That was a lot of information. Thank you Um while we're ending a little early, uh, so we can just jump right into question and answer period So we've got a generous amount of time for that. So I would really encourage folks If you have a question for any of the panelists, this is the time And We've heard a lot of information So feel free to please I'll just a reminder to to share the street or the neighborhood that you're from when you're asking your question And to if you have if your questions for a specific person Maybe just direct it to them so that they they know to respond I'm anthony stamper ward four. I've got a question Uh live in north shore question involves the police there was a Occupied battery park that happened last summer. I think a year ago that lasted for a few months There were nearly daily protests in burlington. A lot of the protests Occurred also at the mayor's house and city council person's house So my general question is It's pretty massive protesting in 2020 Um, where are we with respect to what the protesters were asking for? If the protesters were here today, do you think they'd be happy with the way things have turned out in the past year? Well, I I don't want to speak for the chief or anybody way higher than me but I think that the the police department under the leadership of chief murad has uh made some some strides and and um, like shireen had said uh working with the police commission uh to incorporate some of those 151 Recommendations in the cna report. I think the big thing that we were waiting on was that report um So that we could find out what the the professional group Thought that we do actually need to change So getting that report a couple months ago was really helpful and um I I think that that we're in a good spot right now at least for as a patrol supervisor um working with the csls and the cso's to sort of take some of that burden away from police officers, especially since we're down quite a few officers since last year um having that help where those priority three calls can get taken care of and my officers can go to The burglaries and the assaults and and domestics and stuff Things that really require a robust police response. So I I think we're doing well That's a good response. Thank you And I'm just gonna jump in really quickly to say If anybody wants to speak at the miller center Jeff is there and so Jeff just let us know if anybody has has indicated that they'd like to ask a question and also And if we start getting a lot of questions, please use the raise hand feature and I have a pen and I'll just try and Be aware and I saw mark you had your hand up as well So I was going to call on you. But is there anyone that else that wanted to respond? Um to the question that was just asked other than sergeant ross I mean, I'd be happy to offer my perspective So just so I hear to clarify your question. It was How how do we uh, how do we think the protesters Would feel about where we are right now Yeah, you basically captured it. Yes. Okay. Um, I would say that that If the intention was for there to be less police officers then yes Then they were that was part of which is my interpretation was part of the mission was there for there to be Less officers as a whole um, unfortunately, there's been a little bit the Because of how many officers we've lost over time there's a Gap between the positions like the ones I supervise and the cso's and those being able to grow fast enough To actually fill kind of the backfill at times. So I think from a different perspective and I think sergeant ross's was great because it was positive Because that is part of it. There's always that other half And everything I would agree with every bit of everything that he said was true But I think that the other side of it was that part of what I think they wanted was for there to be less police officers And that true that too is is effect currently Thank you again I'm scheduled to speak and I I missed the presentation that was offered by Chief Your volume's a little low Sorry, is that any better? No No No, I'm sorry I'm not muted. So I'm not certain what the volume is. Well, we'll just uh, I would just say then project as loudly as possible Because it's very faint on our end I thought I was speaking up. I'm sorry about that I wasn't here for sergeant ross and lacy's piece I was actually at a virtual concert for my son who's at hunt middle school and hunt middle school had their big Virtual concert tonight, which is wonderful. So I got to see him in porous and also he's in the band And uh, but I will say I heard the question and with regard to the question I think I think there's there's one piece that is There's an old joke about a waiter and a table of activists and the waiter says is anything all right And I think there's a certain amount of sometimes We we know that we always want to keep striving for what is uh, what is best and what is best is sometimes More improvement and more and so would there be satisfaction on the part of the folks who were in the encampment last summer I I don't think so. I think that by nature there's a desire to keep moving For more and to keep speaking more improvement and I think that's a good thing It's certainly something that we share as an ethos at the police department. We want to keep getting better I think one of the things that we've learned over the past almost two years now more than two years is that we have a A department that that is willing to embrace change and make those changes the fact is that when the uh, First pieces of that Movement and they weren't the encampment the encampment followed The movement that happened with the racial justice resolution in june of 2020 and the encampment happened for one month In the very end of august and the and most of september of 2020 So those demands were were somewhat separate from the demands that were created in the racial justice resolution We uh embrace those demands and actually just the only steps to start developing responses to those demands As we lost officers owing to attrition and officers left the police department because of a combination of Sense that they were not supported a sense that they didn't want to continue to work for a community that they all worked for um under the current pressures that that really were were felt Acutely in burlington, but were felt everywhere as well across the country as we lost those officers We endeavored to bring aboard these repositions and create them those new positions to uh, Increase the number of community service officers cso's unsworn unarmed officers who can respond to quality of life complaints increasing those numbers was with my plan for the uh, the creation of a public safety continuity plan Creating the community support liaison the positions that exist under lacy Also, my plan after a long stated, uh, repeated refrain of me desiring frankly the phone lacy I think lacy's an incredibly incredible employee for the city and I wanted more of lacy and what she could do And so, uh, we brought forward the idea of the csl positions mental health Healthlessness sub-comfuse disorder. We brought forward the idea of keeping the number of cso's low-level Priority three calls for service quality of life calls for service and we said as the department we want these positions We want authorization to hire on these positions because we don't have enough police officers to do the tasks that our neighbors expect of tasks that our neighbors have grown to Expect over the past two decades of incredibly Good community policing And so as the number of officers fell and our ability to meet those expectations Also fell we came up with the idea of doing this And so the notion of embracing perpetual change of wanting perpetual change and in perpetual improvement Aliens in the brilliant police department. I think in that respect. I think that we have done a lot since last summer We created the single most Uh Progressive use of force policy in the state such a good policy that the state adopted it in october as a as a statewide use of force There's only one use of force policy now for the entire state of ramot It was adopted on october 1st of 2021 and it substantially cribbed from we cut and pasted Our policy which we released in june of 2020 in the wake of the murder of george floyd And so I think that there are a lot of things that the department has done quite well in that time period We've enhanced the transparency with which we deal with our partners on the independent police commission We make every single use of force that we uh, our Do public every single use of force that the going to the police department has uh undertaken in 2021 has been made public and it's available online I present routine just last night a very long and fulsome report to the police commission those reports are online You can see our data. You can see where our staffing is You can see what our numbers are for certain categories of crime or a police incident And those kinds of things are are things that we've done before but we have accelerated and known to be different We've because of the pressure that came from the incredibly horrible events in minneapolis in 2020 and subsequent events here in burrowing So I do think that we are actually moving forward and embracing these kinds of changes and speaking to continue to improve I don't mean to be shouting, but I don't know how much you can hear or not. No, it's very faint So i'm glad you are shouting. Thank you um, and I don't see any more hands up, but if folks are feeling that uh Acting chief mirad's shared a lot of information there and if folks have other questions for other panelists, please do Not hesitate. This is the time to have the conversation And I I also have a question or two. So i'm happy to to offer a question as well So maybe yeah, maybe it'll get people going but um, this one's mostly directed towards Rachel and the community justice center One of the things that we're seeing a lot in in our community forums in our facebook group On our front porch forums is and I'm sure people are seeing it around Our entire city is just the uptick in theft. So that's bicycle theft That is package theft And also kind of going through cars at night Whether that's a break-in or just forgetting to lock the car. We've just Seen a lot of that or at least I have and so I guess my question is what resources and and forgive me if I missed you During your presentation. I'm talking about it, you know Could you walk us through a little bit of what might be available to someone? Who's you know, child's bike was just stolen and maybe can't afford To replace it or had some valuables stolen Or just simply have been impacted by the theft that they Were unfortunately victim of Thank you so much for that question actually because I was very remiss and not mentioning the one of our Key programs that would respond to exactly what you described That and that's called parallel justice for victims of crime and lacy actually had mentioned that One of their csls had been in this program previously. So that's a program that we've had in existence since 2006 It's actually co-located. We have one staff member at the burlington police department who shares that database and is able to respond to Each week when they they have the incidents The data from the incidents that do involve the victim They're able to proactively reach out But we also can respond obviously if maybe somebody just decides to post on front Front porch forum and never reports to the police We also have a staff member based at the cjc. So whether somebody Decides to report or not or whether the offender or the responsible party is caught or not This program is available to any victim of crime in burlington since 2006 actually So even if it's years later if the crime happened Since 2006 we can help and that's offers a variety of services including sometimes just emotional support of that person wants to just talk it out and let their You know kind of story be heard it's information and referral to other resources that they might be looking for and there is a Victim's fund that can help with certain Certain kinds of compensation or if they're the main goal is to help restore the person's sense of safety So maybe we're replacing a lot, but we also Might help the person get security cameras. There's something that might help them feel a little bit more secure in there in their home we also try and Coordinate with other victim service chinden county is blessed and having quite a few Different agencies as well as just positions that are victim service related And so if we can't help we try and coordinate with other victim service providers Especially if the person is deciding to like for whatever reason has decided Prosecute and that is going to court or somehow through the criminal legal system There are more resources might be available to that victim and we can help them navigate through that So thank you and I know counselor barlow had his hand up. So I just wanted to say that We see you Thanks guy. Can I go on? Thank you for that. Oh, yeah, thank you. I can't see everybody's screens There's so many folks. So thanks for helping with that rachel um, my question was I guess to Vinnie and lacey I'm I'm curious about what their views are on the obstacles to hiring additional csos and csls I'm really eager to get us more fully staffed and I'm wondering if those obstacles might be Training finding candidates or or something else So Well, I'll say on the csl side um I mean we actually were relatively lucky in terms of like there seemed to be a desire for Or the position or for the for the job. So, um I think that's you know more of us. I think there's space would be an issue Um, oh no, no one Sorry, um, I don't know. I think that honestly on the csl side We seem to be pretty Stable in terms of like we got up and running pretty quickly And so funding would always be the reason why there wouldn't be necessarily be more of us Um, maybe as quickly as there could be money I think on the the csos side We were able to hire the first two pretty quickly because they were in the in the pipeline Uh, just before we got the authorization to hire everybody um I would have to check with recruiting on how it's going now. I know they mentioned I was talking to our recruiter the other day that at least one was going through the hiring process right now um So i'm I know everybody's sort of struggling to find Work or find help right now and uh, this might be just one of those positions that falls into that category Unless the chief has anything else um to offer We were uh, the city council and you know this counselor allotted us three spots for csl We have filled all three of those And you allotted us a total of ten spots in addition to the two we already had to csl We've only filled two of those so far. We have an additional Three that are currently in some form of process right now that are farther along than the merely just an application Uh, and so i'm hopeful to be able to get those in one sort of challenge We have is trying to bring a number of boards so that we achieve an economy of scale in training them Rather than just bringing on one here and one there We try to bring them in in a group But then we also don't want to risk losing candidates when we say we can't bring you in for another week or two Are you willing to wait or even a month or two? Are you willing to wait so so we have to kind of balance that out? um We are eager to find new csl candidates and so anyone who's on this call who has Friends or knows of people who are interested in this position. We would embrace getting new candidates especially candidates who come from Demographics that we want we want diversity in these ranks. We want to bring in new ways of thought new kinds of people different kinds of background And uh, we're really looking for that and we're looking for police officers again as well because uh, the city council was uh, basically Revaluated after the cna report the decisions would go down to 74 from 105 and now our authorized head count amounts to 87 So we're well below that. We're currently at 69. We are continuing to lose officers Uh, I will lose at least eight by next summer and hopefully bring bring a board two or three in that time period But that's still a net loss if you have individuals who want to uh be police officers and who you think would be Good candidates. We are always looking for uh, those and uh, we have a very generous package right now again Thanks to the city council. We have a total of $15,000 in hiring incentives for new police officers. We offer $63,300 is the first year salary and it's an $82,000 top pay currently Go to the attractive position the CSO's make a little bit less than that But they're attractive positions too and we are really seeking good candidates. So if you have them send them our way, please Thanks so much and then um, I do see a hand with paul buschner. So i'll just go to you paul you're free to unmute so i'm paul buschner uh living ward four on kurtis ab and So i had one resource to share of a friend that has recently started a nonprofit called step out It's uh aiming to help incarcerated women by providing them with life skills through entrepreneurial training and resources Her name is uh, sharyl deersh She's currently a ward four resident. She's got a deposit on the house in ward seven. So she's sticking around and um So the webpage is step out vt.org so for the restorative justice folks and uh, if you're I know she's actively trying to fundraise to keep things growing and keep it afloat So if anyone has any year-end contributions, they'd be interested in making get in touch with sharyl. Check out her webpage Um, and then I just had a couple of comments as a business owner on church street um, the lack of police presence this year has done an amazing job of training various individuals as to just how much crap they can get away with so It's going to take quite some time to undo the lessons that have been learned as a result of not having any restraint out there everything from aggressive panhandling and catcalling and um, a costing people downtown Making them feel very uncomfortable uh, public urination and depacation open containers uh dogs that are Ought leash and not under the control of their owners They've been just all kinds of situations down there that have been very very distressing and uh, so I just want to put in a plug for the need to have At least cso level supervision I think it was mentioned about street entertainers. There's been a young man out there that was playing a drum kit and it's so loud that I've been having to shout to Be heard by my customers and he was Trying to play his drums while some people were caroling downtown and making it very difficult for everybody to hear the Songs that were being beautifully sung. So there's just a general need for some more presence downtown Whether it's uh sworn officers or cso's and then I did have one question about cso's relative to the traffic situation and sort of unrestrained Operation of motor vehicles outside of norms on particularly north af If it's possible that the cso's could be employed in non-criminal traffic enforcement unfortunately due to the The nature of traffic stops and some of the dangers that are inherent in that sort of situation There isn't a plan right now as far as I know to have cso's Do any sort of traffic enforcement other than Being on scene for directing traffic and that sort of thing Just because of the the training that they go through it wouldn't be safe for them To to do that sort of thing unfortunately, let me interject just one other hot spot that's there By the flin school When school is in session in particular There's a lot of speeding. I mean it's a wide open stretch of road And I don't know if it would be possible to get some of the flashing speed signs And some of the like the radar sign that shows people So I think some people just don't realize they're in a school zone But they're picking up a head of steam coming down the avenue and you know It's routinely I see people going 45 50 even 60 miles an hour on that stretch of road Which should never happen at any time of the day, but it's particularly egregious when schools in session Paul I've uh, I've asked for those radar Signs on north heaven extension multiple times from dpw. I don't know if it's something that vpd can also help with Um, I know so far there has none been placed there, but I would like to see that as well I I will just mention that my wife's a transportation planner for dpw so I cannot put a bug in her as well Um, martin. I saw your hand up. Um, if you'd like to ask your question Thank you paul Thank you. Evan. Um, it's a comment and a question. Can everybody hear me? Yeah, okay, great. Um Since we're talking about uh, numbers of police officers I did want to remind folks that our superintendent superintendent flanagan earlier This year Put together a safety task force in the district that was um, you know bipartisan. It was a diverse group of people Students were involved It was a thorough process. We ended up with a great report on school safety and um, it was decided that we were going to have a school resource officer in the district And I believe and I would appreciate it if uh, lacy vinnie or chief mirad could Could corroborate this but I think at this time we don't have an sro because Of the low numbers And I I just wanted to make folks aware of that That's correct. Uh, We don't sorry, uh We don't currently have an sro. We have an officer who is assigned as a youth officer She was one of our two sro's Uh, but uh, she she worked on issues that are primarily youth related But she is also a patrol officer and she picks up regular calls for service on patrol Part of the rationale for not having an sro is our low staffing The other Not prepared to assign an officer as directed by that task force report that task force support wanted that officer To be based only at one north avenue Only when invited to wear a different kind of uniform and therefore not be available for other kinds of calls for service And based on both where we were with regard to staffing and with regard to what the officer's preferences were That wasn't something that we were prepared to be able to meet and so we uh, it's mostly however an issue of the fact that when we have 40 officers, we actually only have 29 we have 29 officers available for patrol And that's for all shifts 24 hours a day seven days a week 29 officers spread across the whole city And we run into these very very complicated and difficult decisions If i'm going to put officers on church street to address the kind of behavior that you are talking about that We know my wife was in that caroling group. She's a member of lyric theater She was singing in that caroling group when that man was drumming if i'm going to put officers on church I cannot have officers in a area watching traffic Near the schools and if I if I put resources in downtown I am robbing the areas to the north and south and the hill sections if I put officers in those sections I am robbing the area of a certain amount of of necessary presence There is no way around these kinds of decisions one or the other as we bring aboard more cso I'm hopeful that will change that it was a cso that actually went and interrupted the drummer This past sunday when the quick caroling was happening the cso came and found him we issued new instructions to officers about Interrupting people who are busking without a license from the marketplace And so we're we're hopeful to be able to address that we have dedicated more officers to church street We've had more presence there over the past couple months We've instituted an overtime post that is working there, but overtime also is not sustainable Officers are starting to get burned out. There's only so many hours that they can work in a given day Um, these are all very difficult decisions and the sRO one was clearly a difficult decision We've maintained however very close relationship with the schools Over issues that happen in the schools, but not having an officer in those schools on a day to day basis Forming relationships on a day to day basis being aware of situations that are evolving on a day to day basis Is a loss it's a loss for all of us some um Thanks so much for that answer martin. Did you get most of that? Yes, I did and I appreciate the clarification. Thank you Awesome. Um, I also have a question um that I thought I would ask since um, but there's still time We still got up to seven more minutes with our presenters. Thank you so much for staying on so late into the evening um, so Some of the present presenters that we invited tonight We invited you because you're kind of um, you're trying something new. There's new innovative programs. There's new We're trying to hire new positions Park for everything from park rangers to the positions at at bpd and so One of the conversations that I guess I see come up as well in our community is you know Around people who feel conflicted about calling police They can feel conflicted for a variety of reasons It could be anything from well, I know they don't have enough officers because that's been the the ongoing conversation To other personal viewpoints. And so I guess what would you say? um to folks who kind of feel conflicted about calling police To respond to some of the low risk um Issues so for example, we see folks uh All these things already got listed actually all the activities in the parks, right like the fires camping in the parks Other types of behavior party loud Fireworks is another big one that just seems to come up over and over and over especially in summer um, so what would you say to those folks who are averse to calling police but but still want um to have some sort of Resolution to the problem that that they're being impacted by and also What options are available to people after 4 30? So and anyone can answer that that's not just directed to bpd And unless the chief wants to go ahead I as a patrol supervisor For the evening shift. I work 4 p.m. Till 2 a.m um And when I first started here six and a half years ago On that shift on a double friday. We would have in excess of 12 to 15 officers we could have officers being proactive We could have officers walking church street doing full patrols in oak ledge or leddie park um, and see those low level incidents happening and address them without getting a call now We're really only going to find out about them if we get a call Uh, so for those quality of life things if people Want to get them addressed and and it may not be that night It may not be for a couple of hours depending on what's going on But when we have the staffing and it's available, I will send an officer or a cso When they're on They're working until 2 in the morning. They've gone to a number of noise complaints already Issued tickets issued warnings So we're we're really only going to find out about those things if people call So if if they want them addressed It's it's best to to give us a call and The dispatchers know the i'm also a dispatcher and dispatchers are trained on how to Sort of prioritize those calls and if they it's if it's right on the edge They'll they'll call a supervisor and we'll make that determination So it might not be as quickly as people would want But once we have the staff available Unless it's after 2 45 in the morning 3 in the morning when we only have two cops It it will eventually get addressed And i'm just going to put in a plug that urges people to report because even if we can't respond in the moment For the time being dispatch is the only intake of data that our city has we don't have a 3 1 1 system It might be a good idea to develop them But for the time being dispatch is the system that measures what's happening in the city And even as we build other Resources whether they're cso's or csl's in the bpd whether there are other things that the city has code enforcement, for example We do have c-click fix that is a something that can address certain kinds of conditions But other conditions we only know about them if they're reported and we only know if there's been a critical number of them In order to create a pattern and therefore necessitate a different kind of effort to address If we have reports on all of them and by the time and so even if people don't think there's going to be a response Or even if people say, oh, I don't want to bother the police I urge them to report with regard to people who don't want to call the police because they have concerns about police response That is a different issue But even there I urge people to report because without the data we can't know our numbers and by that I mean the numbers of What our city experiences on a day-to-day basis Thank you. Will there be if our parks and recs if Cindy or Erin are on You know, will there be a way for people to reach out directly to Parks and rec after hours For folks who are perhaps I hear chief mirad You know your your your concern and it's valid I also just want to leave space for the reality that some folks are just not Going to call the police and would rather ignore the problem Or attempt to deal with it on their own You know and or complain about it on facebook for the next however many days but Would there be an after hours line or any way for people in the community to reach out to the Rangers once they're hired To say hey, I saw this act right to do that sort of to instead of sending everything through bpd and dispatch Would there be a way to to say there's somebody blowing off fireworks at north beach to deal with it And then mad I see your hand up so it will go to you right after thanks I'll just jump in on that. Um Yeah, so, you know, right now we're setting up The new urban ranger office, which is located which will be located at leddy arena So it's here in the new north end And we expect to have not only a phone line to the ranger office But once we get employees, so we're still a little bit premature in that sense But we're going to be broadcasting out what what their hours are going to be so that folks here know that when when they can contact them And or you know leaving a message with them and we can follow up But I'll I'm also going to echo what bpd says like if it's safety or harm like please please call the police A ranger will not be equipped for that, but if it's you know off leash dogs and and fireworks or Fires we're going to be working with bpd to help relieve some of those fires on the beaches So that's something that we can take care of and so that we we look to be out there Also kind of what I had heard previously We hope to get to it before there's a complaint But we know that we can't be everywhere at the same time So we do want our community to help us identify the areas that are causing a you know harm to poly of life Thank you Thanks, I think you know just from being a new north end resident that we have all the beaches all the parks We have a lot of the the benefits of that And it has it has its issues as well. And so thanks so much. We just I just think it'll be important for people to know how Uh to contact those rangers once they're hired as you pointed out and that they can contact them in the evening Without necessarily having to to send that through dispatch Um, just I realized we're at 8 20, but matt robert has been very patiently waiting and rachel you raised your hand possibly wanting to just add to that so If we could just do that and then move into community conversation and let our Our guests take off. Um, we're so grateful for their time I really would love to make a comment and a question too. Oh sure. I apologize ali. I did not see your You're there I'll just acknowledge that actually we're down to one. So I'll be quick not so much a question More just a statement and it was initially For chief mirad and vinny and now i'm sort of realizing it's to everybody on the call It's been a really rough 12 to 18 months Both nationally for police and locally for police I've heard and seen you know morale issues and just lots of Bad things, but what i'm seeing and really hearing on this call Is a lot of different departments that may not have even existed working together in the past Really reaching out and working together um The police is a big business in burlington. I see it as A large operating business and businesses go through ebbs and tides um good times bad times And you know, these are those lean times, but I see a lot of growth And development and new ideas and effort. So I just want to thank bpd For keeping your heads up and for everyone that's kind of worked together. There's a lot still to do I know this isn't going to be Done with the change of the new year, but Keep it up and keep in touch with what the community can do to help support Rachel if you just wanted to add your quick comment and and I want to make sure that councillor dang has an opportunity to To speak while our presenters are here and then we'll move to community conversation where uh, he can continue to speak as well Yes, thank you. I'll try and be brief um, I did just want to speak to your question about if Somebody does feel nervous for whatever reason about calling the police or has concerns I don't want to actually replace anything that was said already because Many of those examples were speaking maybe to imminent threats or perceived danger right in the moment Um, but I do want to just encourage people to um, I know I've had to kind of retrain myself about certain issues or certain kinds of crimes such as domestic violence Where? Many survivors have only 10 to 12 percent of vermont survivors use the criminal legal system for those particular crimes and many of those Feel like the criminal legal system was not the right method and are looking for other alternatives We do have a lot of service anti-violence organizations in the community and um also transformative justice groups that are looking for community based solutions to crime and conflict and so I don't think there's any kind of quick answer I can give about like who you should call But I do feel like there are a lot of resources, especially in shending county when maybe imminent Harm again dv is a very complicated case Or kind of a crime that is a whole spectrum of different kinds of crime within that one name So I don't want to simplify that issue and say that it's not Representing imminent threat or harm and sometimes the police is exactly um who the call should be too And I know that's also a complicated decision on the part of survivors um But I do just want to encourage people if and feel free to reach out to us We have a number of different resources about some community based organizations that could be a good call in terms of um mental health issues or other kinds of issues that are presenting a threat or are kind of Representing conflict that you feel like deserves some accountability or some redress But that maybe the criminal legal system is not going to be the best solution for all involved in terms of Getting the outcome that you're looking for thank you so much for that and Ali did you want to share before we transitioned? I wanted to See you very quick. And I think first. Thank you Anthony stamper for your question It was just a great wonderful question and mirad. I could not hear you very well. Sorry Um, but when we talk about safety, I think it is about time for the new north end to revisit a comprehensive plan about re invigorating north avenue to ensure safety because it seems that there are just Uh beat and pcs here and there and I think it is about time that we come together and just Make sure that north avenue had the attention it deserves Right. Um, and I think three Mr. Mirror, I know we talked about this at least today But I wanted to understand your limitation about one person who is targeting the lgbtq community With speakers that he's placing specifically in the new north end What are those limitations and what can we do as a community to protect every single one of us to be safe? Thank you So I'll try to answer that and I'm very sorry that you can't hear me I it is probably time for me to get a new MacBook Air And I I just guess this one is not working and I feel like I'm shouting I am in my house my kids and my wife must wonder what the heck I'm doing I'm definitely shouting if it if it appears to some of you that I'm shouting I'm really sorry if it appears to others of you like you counselor that you can't hear me I'm sorry for that too. All right. We did discuss that. I told you I was going to get you some information I didn't send that to you yet, but I will before I go to bed tonight Why are we limited in that we are limited in taking action against something that's not a crime so Putting stickers up on on property is not technically a crime It could be maybe considered a low-level kind of vandalism If it can be if removing it is going to damage the item that it is placed on that may be considered vandalism Um, but uh absent that it's certainly not a level of crime that our current State attorney is going to prosecute Uh, and it's not even something necessarily that we would really be able to refer to alternative justice Uh absent there being something for us to do and absent a crime I can't take into account the fact that it may or may not be directed at a person belonging to a certain class Which is what is required for it to be given a hate crime enhancement To be a hate crime. There has to be a crime underneath and so While those stickers are troubling and I have seen pictures of them online I don't currently have proof of who is doing them although. I have a number of community allegations I don't currently have a complainant who says my property has been damaged to the level of meeting The criminal threshold for vandalism and therefore I can't take any action on those things as I as I told you counselor. I I debated Investigating and going to the individual who was alleged to have done these things I wasn't quite certain that that was the police prerogative to go knock on people who are not shown to have done something and say Hey, we're watching you for this thing It is a component of a very innovative way of directing police resources towards violent actors It's a component of a program called ceasefire for people who are committing gun crime And shootings where you actually go to individuals known to be associated with those acts and say we're watching you We're going to hammer you if you continue to do this But we are going to offer you other things if you don't we're going to offer you jobs and and and work plans, etc School, um, that's great for violence And I think that the threshold for what police can and can't do rises when there is violence in play Uh, that's not what we have here And so I I am I'm trying to determine what I have with regard to crime the ones that were reported to us via the internet and also Some crime reports are several months old at this point. I wasn't aware that it was something that was happening again You mentioned to me that you had somebody who may or may not be able to demonstrate more Substantially who's actually doing it that might change the equation But ultimately the equation is still going to be dictated by whether or not there's a crime And there has to be some kind of damage in order to be a crime Thank you all so much. I don't want to cut into our community conversation any further And I also want all of you To be able to head back to your lives outside of work So thank you all for joining us and I I really appreciate Ali's question right there. That's helpful clarification And it's great to know that that conversation is still happening. It hasn't been forgotten And so if you'll all Just thank our presenters if you feel like it Thanks a lot for joining us and we don't see this as the end of the conversation either So I look forward to having future conversations In our community without safety And you're welcome to stay with us as well. So I want to give you an out Thank you Thanks a lot. Thanks everybody. Yeah, thank you Cool. So now Without further ado and paul I do see your hand up there. So maybe you can kick it off with olivia But I want to introduce olivia taylor who is my neighbor, but she is in ward seven And she's a member of the npa steering committee and she's graciously Offered to kind of co-facilitate this conversation with us. So thanks olivia Thank you evan and thank you for doing such an incredible job Navigating this whole conversation. Um, so my name is olivia I'm on ethan alan parkway, and I am the newest member of the npa steering committee I And my fellow steering committee members wanted to give a space outside of asking questions to the panelists But a space for us to have like an empathetic caring conversation Where residents of the new north end can gather in collective conversation people can Share their perspectives their own personal experiences with public safety We just really want this to be A polite as possible and not accusatory conversation One where we can all hear what everyone's experiences have been and really try to make next steps as a Community to consider these experiences in the future Paul not to call you out, but if you do want to start You are welcome to Yeah, I just wanted to make one point relative to the previous conversation if the worst problem we have some road Road busters out on tertiary. We're doing pretty well Uh from a public safety perspective, but but I did want to make one point about um It was interesting that the the chief's wife He hit some personal insight into that situation the cso showed up. I was there watched him Spoke with this individual The young man packed up his drum kit and was back five minutes later And so the salient point that I wanted to make there is that without a consistent presence It's one thing you can fight a fire But if you don't put it all the way out and the embers are still there Then the fire comes back. So it's one thing to just knock it down It's another thing to put it out and the only way I think for church street in particular to be Perceived by the public because I get a lot of feedback on that as a safe place Is to have a consistent presence. So you can't do it hit and miss And you know, I've been out there since 2003 with my business So I've seen quite a few different things a lot of antisocial behaviors And it really does take a consistent law enforcement presence In order for those things to even have some modicum of control So just wanted to make that that observation about the the sort of law enforcement presence on the marketplace in particular Thank you Paul. I wonder because I do want to shift the conversation to public safety experiences in the new north end If you have any experiences in our neighborhood that you would like to share or any Anything along that those lines you know, I think I'd brought up about unsafe driving particularly on north avenue and There was a post of a woman that had posted on on front porch forum About someone that almost hit her And what a harrowing experience that was for and it was 9 30 or 10 in the morning She was coming from hannifers trying to make a left hand turn on onto santaford and somebody passed her on the left If she hadn't seen them She could have gotten t-boned on her driver's door by that car so People are doing pretty crazy things out there And when they know that there's no traffic enforcement Again, it's a matter of the consistency of a presence if it isn't there then People that want to engage in that kind of behavior Feel much more emboldened to do it. I think Thank you paul. I want to open it up to to anyone else Who wants to share any experience or perspective around public safety in our neighborhood? And really anything you want to share is open I'm just going to help you olivia because some folks are raising hands. So I saw um annie Lawson Oh, I can't see any hand raising. That's okay. She was in the attendee section and then it bumped over annie, did you have a question or wanted something you wanted to share? yeah, and um I think you were asking for intros kind of as we go and i'm arriving late because I was uh working late Have a toddler, but I live in ward four and I appreciate the chance to have this conversation My thoughts about public safety in the new north end are that My thoughts are that public safety has has to extend to all community members regardless of their role in the community and so for me One piece that is still missing from our community is a greater sense of accountability for the police Who are charged with keeping all community members safe? Working in burlington makes somebody a community member whether they live here or not and I think that there's been an unproductive um development of a dichotomy between the idea of accountability and um antagonism and I heard a really nice phrase a few years ago, which was the idea that being against abuse of power by police Doesn't make you anti police any more than being against child abuse by parents doesn't make you anti parent and I I like that analogy because the two The two ideas have become so conflated, but we know that There's been studies that show that retired police officers once they retire post a lot of um white supremacist and anti-racist Uh material on social media and so if that's a national study and so we we have to some Burlington and Vermont are part of the country and so those same trends may exist here as well and so um putting in place mechanisms to really Just hold police accountable for when they mess up. It makes everybody safer in the community It doesn't have to mean that we're Um out to get police or out to punish them. Anyway, it just means If we have standards for good job performance in private sectors, why would we not have that same standard in a role that touches so many lives and so many members of the community and Um at its root is is a core part of the community. So as a member of this neighborhood, that's one of the main things I think has been missing from Forward momentum toward a safer community Uh, and I uh would welcome just hearing people's thoughts around that topic or whatever else Are here to share on Thank you, Annie Um, Evan if you see someone else with a hand raised for some reason, I'm not able to see it. Um Or if anyone wants to just go off mute and Jump in I don't you are welcome. This is a conversation We want to make it as natural as possible on zoom And I will say for the amount of front porch forum and facebook posts I see about public safety. I'm quite surprised by the silence I don't mind adding uh, although I've um talked quite a bit because I'm I'm kind of going through the facilitation, but um, I personally Maybe have that struggle of balancing between like do I call the police or not? I often feel Um reticent, which is maybe why I asked that question because I feel like I'm um Connected to people who also share that reticence of like is this a situation where I need to call the police is someone in You know urgent danger, right? Um And so I'm I'm personally really looking forward to Hiring the um ranger program and if it goes really well, I'd really personally like to see it expanded because we do have so many beaches and parks We're so lucky to have miles of beachfront here in in the new north end um, and and so many wonderful park spaces um And I feel safe in most of them, but not all of them. Um, especially at this time of year when it gets dark at You know 3 34 o'clock in the afternoon um and I also just want to see that balance of Respecting unhoused people and their their need to access public land and also our responsibility To steward that land appropriately and not allow it to fall into A state of disrepair disarray And so I I personally uh struggle with that being next to a park Being being next I live on I should have said earlier. I live at Cambrian rise And so I'm right next to the newly named I think it's Kieslik park Which is actually the the Burlington parks and rec main offices And just the amount of activity that happens in the woods after 4 30 uh and on the weekends that There isn't necessarily an ability to deal with um in real time Um and blocking off of paths by with fallen trees so that people don't use them so that you can kind of take over that space and that path and so Just trying to find a way to share land and and again not allow it to end up with large bags of trash and furniture discarded and feces and and tent sites that have been partially abandoned needles um And so I'm speaking only from experience. That's not theoretical. So um, I guess I I guess that comment I am That annie just shared, you know, I can empathize with it and also just um, I'm really hoping that the ranger program goes well and that we get those folks hired and we get some wonderful people Um into that position and maybe even expand it Thank you, Evan If other people don't I'll just add to um To evan's comments about camping in the park. It's been and I'm not speaking as a city councilor now speaking as or a friend of leddie park. We've been cleaning leddie park for Nearly 12 years now Sometimes twice a year and I can tell you that remediating some of the camp the informal campsites is Some of the most intensive work we've had over the years. I mean our parks We have a clear ordinances about camping in the parks And um, it's been an even an ongoing effort this summer and lacy's done a tremendous job of Trying to inform people of the city ordinances around camping in parks and um, and and for the most part they've moved they've moved Honor gotten into other housing programs were gotten the other services, but It's an ongoing issue and I agree with evan. It needs to be sort of dealt with in real time And and I'm hopeful also that the urban park ranger program is going to be a resource to help us manage a lot of The activity that goes on in the park that are essentially quality of life issues and and uh, And I would even argue Issues around compatibility of Of use, you know, we have soccer field soccer fields at leddie where there's active drinking going on while there's youth sports programs Going on there at the same time. So those are the sorts of things that I think that I'm hoping that the urban park rangers can help us manage better Thank you Yeah, I'm I'm definitely also very excited about the urban park rangers, um, I think One of my favorite things of the Burlington parks, especially leddie is when you go you see everyone And I think having some urban park rangers will be a really cool Experience, especially if there's someday a new north end one. I would really appreciate that I think I've definitely been at the park for sunset and walked back from Sunset and felt very different than getting there before sunset I see both sarah carpenter and jeff clark have their hands raised sarah. You can go first Thanks, um, just to sort of piggyback out one of my roles is Is on the human resources committee of the city and this is just more generic But we are very concerned about the city's ability recruit staff in general. I mean and so the loss of officers and at the police force was precipitated by Probably morale and a lot of different reasons, but there has been financial capacity to hire people Just like the psos. We we have the money to do it and the whole recruitment effort is is um Really problematic. I'm just saying that because it's so people are so anxious now. I think we're in a good place financially Or not a good place. We have the authorized ability to hire people We've simply got to find them in this environment and it's it's affecting a lot I mean, we don't know if we're gonna have enough people to plow the streets this winter. So I you know, it's it's um It's frustrating and I I guess I'm just sort of tossing that out there Um, if nothing else and and I personally would appreciate any feedback You know, you get from people like like why why won't you apply for a job for the city? You know, is there something better we can do to entice people? um To work with us at you know more flexibility. So any any feedback on that would be useful Jeff if you want to go ahead Okay, Olivia. Can you hear me? Yes all right So i'm in the miller center i'm in ward four and i'm on the steering committee as well And I wanted to push back a little bit on the Park rangers not the idea of them, but the number of two The city of burlington when you think of the percentage that is parks It it seems like it will be Similar to what paul is describing That goes on on church street um the City is what percentage park is it 67 percent? I mean, it's a huge number of acres that Two park rangers will be covering so, um I just wanted to Bring up to that point the the other um Observation that I had is I think these are all tremendous You know excellent answers to where the city wants to be moving toward um I I almost see that there's a little bit of overlap in some of them and who will be the um entity that Would ever point out that there's an overlap and you know say that you know restorative justice should be You know done with the community justice center and on this topic And you know not this person so um I think overlap is not where we are right now because everyone's spread so thin but if that ever does Come into place who would be the entity that would Say that this team has it Yeah, I think it's um, you know It's a combination when you think about safety of a lot of things that are happening in the city A lot a lot a lot of new initiatives that are happening in safety in the city You know from 100 police cop office to 79 You know and now we are talking about You know the elimination of the sro program You know and the creation of new or the initiative the cahoots model Like it's so deep and and and and lgbtq Racism thinks that the law criminal justice reform doesn't allow it to happen It's so complex, but in burlington there are so many great things happening from my perspective you know But The data that has been shared here and I would want to listen to that, you know read that article like that study Like where police officers when they retire, that's when they will start to post about white supremacist You know communication online About how the system has been this is new and I would want to hear that more accountability basically follows us Even when we retire The individual the person that live in this city in this state should be Really safe So many different ways and burlington is doing well And I like the theme tonight. Thank you Thank you. I want to pass it back to annie. She has her hand raised and is joined by someone I can see Hello, yeah, so actually I I'm adam so word seven as well and And yeah, I think just kind of what I what I've been thinking about and I I miss the the front end to kind of hear The presentation on on the urban park rangers. So, you know, I guess I'm just speaking from Just I guess what I what I think the program may or may not be so I'm hopeful that that can be a service that Meets and aids the folks in our community and I you know, I'm a person who works directly with lots of folks living with substance use disorder experiencing houselessness and homelessness and I You know, I just think the You know, my hope is that this program, you know, they do a nice job of figuring out the right people who can build relationship and actually find ways to connect because I think It's one thing to have a new Kind of person in town to provide these supports and it's another to figure out the right fits for people who have the ability to engage And and have these conversations and I think that's um the smallest piece of the the biggest challenge that our community is facing and what our Community spacing is is a lack of housing a lack of resources and You know, I think we can have people patrolling The streets we can have park rangers in the parks but if we don't have actual solutions for for folks to have a An opportunity to have a different option. I don't think it's going to really matter and and that's that's kind of where where I'm at and I and I And I think that my hope is that's how our community starts thinking about these things of solutions are going to meet the needs of everyone because Young people I sit with have dynamic needs and and and that need is is being unmet in our parks here in the new north ends and And also for all of us who you know are engaging downtown I mean, it's it's something that I think I am hopeful for and also just want to note that The the system the systems need to be the ones to be really looked at in my opinion in these You know services that are going to be in the community are going to be great But if there's not anything for them to connect to then then it's I don't see it as the a viable solution Thank you And the last thing is I'm 100% Cars need to slow down we we've got cars ripping through our streets And it really is something that I I'm really fearful of someone being hurt It's you know, we're on sanderford and and cars can come down our road at 40 miles per hour And I know the north ab and I think that's just something that's always on my mind is is just the I mean reckless driving is is really something that's That I sit with daily Thank you. I appreciate you also bringing that up I think a lot of people are very concerned with traffic safety in our Our neighborhood. I think that's something we can definitely all Agree on Sarah would you like to speak That me yeah Yeah, go ahead. Okay. I'm fine. Um, I so agree with what what adam says and I just Not to to punt this but so many of these issues we're talking about are really regional And controlled by the state. I mean I Tomorrow night, we're going to talk about some change in policy from Department of Corrections that's removing a housing support There's removal of support for the turning point center Um, the state's in line to get a big opioid settlement nationally But it goes to the state. It doesn't go into the city really and so I you know, we have good legislators but we really need to make our collective vice known um because Burlington can't solve it and I and this is just my sense of frustration You know houses folks Don't remain houseless in some of our neighboring communities because there's no services they come to our town because we have the services and um I don't have any easy specific answer, but you know really bringing that collective voice to our our state elected officials or at least Our local Burlington ones and our county one. We have a mixed bag Um of state senators and and they're they're good, but they need to understand that Burlington ends up with a brunt of a lot of things and I it's not always acknowledged very well Thank you, sir. Do you have suggestions of how people can who people should reach out to and what they should do? Well, I think our I mean our collective Burlington delegation, I mean I we can certainly make those names available I I think as we I mean they're all going to be running next um whenever in a year um I think just speaking up to people each of them individually and you know, it's interesting I think sometimes this people aren't as aware of even who they are We've been very good and our folks have tended to come to the npa. I'm not sure that's always the case We have a delegation of Chittenden County senators and I think those folks are not as well known um to individual residents So I think it's and you you kind of peg them to their expertise Not necessarily, you know feel as open to call them about general stuff um, so I I think I mean I welcome being called, but it's you know, it's I think Making your concerns known sort of just more broadly. There's no easy answer to it. Um But I just think letting those folks know as well The frustrations that we have and maybe it's you know, having always lived in Burlington Maybe I'll chip on my shoulder, but um A lot of things get Left to Burlington Because we're the biggest city and then I think there's the presumption that we've got all the solutions and we just plain don't Thank you. Um, I'll give it to you in a second paul I just wanted to mention something I thought about that I guess is positive Because I did want this to not only be a uh Or I wanted to make it a positive conversation. I I think I was one of our house was one of the many that had um a lot of car break-ins in our in our driveway and Uh, I think that that is a really easy thing to kind of blame yourself for Um, whether you um had the car locked or unlocked or whatever But we actually haven't had any at all since we put a floodlight in and I think like I I don't Maybe is very obvious to a lot of people, but I think we really Did not notice how Much those like little things do in the area and um And I just want to pass it on so if anyone also has any little things that I think Are helpful in addressing the bikes or or any of the small issues I think there are things that we all can do Um like that because we we probably had cars broken into like five or six times and then Since the floodlight nothing so Uh, sometimes the simplest answer is the right one And paul, I'll pass it to you First of all, I just wanted to give a big uh here here to what uh, sarah shared as far as um engaging our elected representatives because Burlington really does end up As the locus for a lot of these social programs And if you're going to be House lists in chitin and county you're going to choose burlington to do it because that's where all the services are you know, we attract Teens, you know spectrum and things that are in distress, but where are they going to go if they're from You know, what services are in the outlying areas? They're all they all gravitate to our community and we need regional solutions Within chitin and county and outside of chitin and county Um, so I think it really is important to to let that be heard Um Not just I mean, I've had discussions with the mayor about it that we really can't just be Um playing whack-a-mole in our own community, but we really do need to to try and comprehensively work with With the region to try and bring services to people And so that that's like I think a big key and then relative to the park rangers I really personally would Feel that they should be cso's or see a combination of cso csl And not that are dedicated to the parks department, but I don't know that I really approve of that I mean, it's a great idea. I want you know resources for some attention in the parks um But you almost need to put them in a hard neighborhood on bike patrol You know because you've got so much area to cover you're going to go up into Ethan Allen park and you know through the arms woods and out to rock point up and down the bike path and Over over the the new park you'll you'll pardon me not being able to pronounce it but Over by Cambrian rise of wonderful new Land that we're getting as a part of that um And then also trails that go down On the other side of the avenue um towards route 127 And so there's there are a lot of trails. There's a lot of ground to cover And thankfully in my case my wife and I and our friends access those trails a lot um And I haven't really seen a lot of threatening behavior. I've never felt unsafe in any of our parks personally Which isn't to say that there aren't problems or needs there But I'm very grateful for the fact that we've regularly accessed those natural areas and been able to enjoy them You know freely so Thank you paul I'll let any go and then we're going to close Out as it's getting very close to the end of our time, but I really appreciate everyone um Sticking to they're not speaking for too long and and really letting everyone have a voice any go ahead Thanks, and I really appreciate you letting me um circle back around to a question from councillor jane And um, I think that the the nature of this conversation means that sometimes the flow can be a little disjointed So what i'm saying is um referring to a question from um, uh, some some few comments ago So I mentioned a study that's uh, collected data about social media posts by police officers and councillor jane expressed interest in hearing more about that so I looked it up and it's been written and rewritten in multiple sources including buzz feed cbs and the new york times and the one that i'll Very briefly quote from is from the new york times Uh presentation of the information A study was done in eight different counties around the country and the they list the cities There are varying sizes many larger than berlington a few cities smaller than berlington And it says that um the researchers began with about 14,000 names of officers And they were able to verify facebook profiles for about 2,800 current officers about 700 more um in addition to that who had once worked for those departments And about one in five of the current officers Including many in supervisory roles and more than two in five former officers Used content that was racist misogynistic islamophobic or otherwise bias Or that undermine the concept of due process So I I quote that to show um that there is a problem with abuse of power within police departments And we're not going to get to a place of increased safety in the city If residents all residents of the city can't trust that the people in charge of law enforcement are safe people And that study shows that there's many People involved in police culture who are not and I think police oversight Here in berlington would go a long way toward building that trust and increasing overall safety Thank you Now unless anyone else from the npa steering committee wants to Have any closing remarks. I think We are at 901 exactly. I really appreciate everyone Speaking and sharing their thoughts and perspectives and For making this success In a conversation on public safety Anything from any of my Members I guess I'll just add that we're going back to the regular schedule the fourth Wednesday of the month in january And um, you know If you have agenda items, let us know And we're looking for steering committee members too Yeah, so if you're passionate about all of this Come join us, please I promise we have fun together Great. Well, thank you everyone have a wonderful holiday season and happy new year Thanks, Olivia Thanks, everybody. Great job, Evan. Bye everyone. Olivia. Thanks for joining Good night everybody. Thanks Good night, guys