 But I think you did. Sorry. And one. Are we good? OK. Yeah. Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining us, and thanks to Howell Round for hosting us this afternoon. My name is Isaac Poole. I'm the Artist Initiatives Coordinator at Creative Capital. And if you're not already familiar, Creative Capital supports innovative and adventurous artists across the country through funding, council, and career development services. Our workshops are developed specifically for artists to provide career, community, and confidence-building tools to support all aspects of a creative practice. We offer online and in-person workshops on a wide array of different topics, including communications, financial wellness, long-term planning, resource sharing, and more to help artists build sustainable practices. We also offer the Creative Capital Award annually to artists working across all disciplines. The award provides up to $50,000 in project funding and career development services valued at over $50,000 for a total commitment of over $100,000. The application for the Creative Capital Award is free and opens every February. We're excited to present this extremely timely panel, all about live streaming for artists led by 2016 Creative Capital Awardee, Yara Chaviesso and her collaborator, Bridget Green. Yara and Bridget will be joined by Maddie Barber-Bachelman of Culture Hub, Vijay Mathew of HowlRound, and video producer, Nell Shelby. There's going to be some time for questions at the end of the panel presentations, and if you have anything that you'd like to ask, please reach out to us over Twitter at creativecap to join in the conversation. So I'll hand it over to Bridget from here. Thank you, Isaac. Also thank you to Creative Capital and to HowlRound and to all of our panelists and to everybody watching today too. Yara and I, as Isaac said, we are collaborators on La Medea, and La Medea is a immersive musical that is simultaneously the making of a feature film that we live streamed. And that's about two weeks ago, kind of when all of this started to really, everything started to change really quickly. Isaac reached out to us and had some questions from an artist's friend of his. And so from there, we kind of started thinking, oh, we want to share some of the tools and some of the things that we have learned in the process of live streaming in Medea and also bring together different voices and use this as an opportunity to also gather community around folks who have been live streaming even before we kind of were hit by the coronavirus and use this as an opportunity to talk about what it's like from a creative standpoint and although I kind of threw to a technical standpoint of what it means for you to be able to live stream your work and to also move into this in a way that's not necessarily about productivity or not necessarily about something that has really high stakes, but it's in a space that is fun and it's a space that's process oriented, especially in this time. So as Isaac said, you'll hear from all of us and then we'll sort of have more of a discussion and there's also a blog post that we have on Creative Capital's website that has a lot of resources there too. And I think it'll continue to be updated after this. So we hope you can tune in there and I'm going to pass it off to Yada, my collaborator. Hey everybody, thank you for tuning in. I think we have a lot of people. So we're really grateful to have this little one moment in community because a lot of us are isolated by ourselves or with our parents, me. So I think it would be great if we just as a community just took a second. I know that it's a scary time and it's an uncertain time, especially for a lot of artists and for a lot of underrepresented communities already and vulnerable communities. So if we can just take a second and just take a breath in together, feel our feet on the ground and exhale together. Thank you. And I really think that something that Bridget said was really great. We really wanted to put this together to come together in community, to bring some inspiration and some spaces of creation that maybe we haven't tapped into yet, but this is a really great opportunity to start playing with. And also really thinking of this space of live streaming, not as another place for productivity, like what Bridget said, but really thinking about live streaming as a place for play, a place for experimentation, innovation and really just furthering your process or your practice. Personally, I'm playing with it a lot right now to process some of how I'm feeling in a vulnerable way because of the power of live streaming has an ability to have that layer of vulnerability to it and that aspect of intimacy that we don't always get on stage. Crown is in theater, a direct live performances and a direct film work. So I wanna talk a little bit about La Medea which is really here to give you some inspiration, but this is a project I created before we had all of this happening. So we had resources, we had cameras, we had a lot of other things, but the takeaways of La Medea are really the part that we really wanted to share with everybody because that is, I'm gonna do a little screen sharing right now, that is what we think is inspiring is some of the takeaways that we found in it. So this is a, like Bridget said, Latin American, Latin Disco Pop Variety Show, it's an immersive musical that was made for screen. And for stage. And so a lot of what the aspects of the musical were really how to create a world for this woman to sort of break away from the archetypes of the form of the original La Medea. So we played with this idea of Greek chorus, having a Greek chorus in the actual theatrical space and the Greek chorus acted as our film extras. But then we had, this is the part that we're really excited about, the Greek chorus that interacted with the musical from afar. So from home, they were watching this live stream television show broadcast and they could send in comments, questions, and eventually those questions would make their way into the musical, into the script and into the character's mouths. So in that way, they really function as a Greek chorus, coloring and creating textures to the world. So this project, something that was really inspiring that we took away from it was engagement. For us, it was important to have audience engagement because it made sense for the story. So it made sense for the story of Medea. And we also realized that so much of the interaction that we were receiving from the audience was really keeping them engaged and keeping them inside the world and inside the narrative in ways that we hadn't experienced in sort of a theater space. So it really opened our eyes into a different way of having this kind of practice and storytelling, having a Greek chorus from beyond really influencing the world and the work was such a fine, spontaneous creative process because we were making changes on the go. Another aspect of live streaming is I'm sure a lot of people have noticed in Zoom, there's a lot of technical limitations that you have. So something that we were playing with was let's make the technical limitations part of the story. So we would make glitches part of the script. So then when we did have a glitch, we already knew that this was part of the language and it was really playful and fun. So really thinking about the medium and its limitations more as like the limitations that create spaces of freedom versus spaces of, you know, blocking any ideas. We also played with different platforms. So live streaming La Medea on Twitch was a very different experience in live streaming and for example, we're on right now. When we were doing it on Twitch, it was really much more about interacting with an outside audience. It was about that conversation. We had this one guy just like really commenting on every single thing. He almost became a main character to the story and he wasn't even in the film. He was in the comments all the time. So there was that aspect that was really fascinating. And then there's the aspect of, there was a platform of something like HowlRound that is really functions and the J can talk more about it. They really function much more like a theater venue where we had a dedicated space for La Medea, almost like a theatrical venue. And the other thing about Twitch was that we were bringing in audiences that were not normally coming into this kind of work. So we had a lot of new viewers to our creative films, these wild experimental films. And that was really exciting because these are voices in minds that we weren't necessarily having conversations with. And then HowlRound was really beautiful because we got to reconnect with our community. So there's so many aspects and we can keep talking about it and answer some questions. But there's so many of us in little time. So I'm gonna pass it on to Bridge now. Thank you. So Maddie, do you wanna talk to us about what Culture Hub does and yeah, some of what you've already been doing in the last few weeks also. Sure. Hey everybody, my name is Maddie Barber-Bakleman. I work at Culture Hub. Culture Hub is a global art and technology community that was founded in 2009 by the Seoul Institute of the Arts in Korea and La Mama Experimental Theater Club in New York City. So Culture Hub was born out of these two institutions that were both founded in the early 60s and had been collaborating and had very, very close familial relationships. And they had been experimenting and collaborating over distance for 30 odd years. And in 2009, the two institutions were wondering how can we use the internet and emerging technologies to foster more collaboration, creation, education and cultural exchange. And so they founded Culture Hub to start exploring these things. Since then, a lot has happened but I'm gonna sort of focus on one aspect of what we're doing these days. We support artists and residencies. We do festivals, we produce work. We do professional live streaming, multi-camera. So all of that is really a part of our practice. Like we do a lot of different things but what I wanna talk about more is our distance collaboration that we've been working on and developing over the past few years. We've been developing a software called Live Lab with a creative coder named Olivia Jack. And Live Lab was originally created to foster distance collaboration. And what I mean when I say distance collaboration is two people who aren't in the same space working together. And so we had at first been experimenting with very expensive and very professional, like a Cisco system, which is like this massive video phone that was basically created to let business meetings happen across the globe, but then we could only call other people who had that very expensive video phone. Using something like Google Hangouts or Skype or Zoom was also we were experimenting with. But there isn't a ton of flexibility within those tools cause they are made for meetings. They have a predetermined way that they think that human beings will be using their software. And so Google released some code and we started to say, okay, would it be possible to basically make our own audio, video routing software? So that's what we're doing. We're hoping to release it to the public so that other people can use this software in the spring. But what's possible with LiveLab is that it's highly reconfigurable. So I could have collaborators in a room and if I was spatialized in a venue, I could be sending Vijay's feed to this projection wall. I could be corresponding with Thea the technician in a closed system and I wouldn't be seeing her. I could have Yada projected onto the ceiling and Brigid sent to some small TV screen and really integrate with venues and integrate also with educational spaces. When the whole lockdown happened, we realized that LiveLab was gonna become a lot more relevant to everyday people and everyday theater makers and artists because all of us would be in remote locations and all of us would be wanting to still, well, not all of us, but many of us would still be wanting to make art and share. And so LaMama and Culture Hub basically decided to start a new performance series. And this goes back to the idea of these limitations being actually an exciting moment to experiment because it's very limited what we could do and we realized we could do online performances. And so now we're using LiveLab to facilitate this new performance series called Downtown Variety, which is happening every Friday night. And yeah, it's a variety show. We're basically bringing in performers from all over New York City and now all over the globe too and having them actively collaborate with our creative technologists who are sort of figuring out a new aesthetic that's coming out of this space so that it's not just like always this bust shot that we're really getting used to seeing on everybody. And yeah, we're just trying to explore the possibilities and it's exciting because there's a much larger audience that's interested in seeing stuff in an online venue because we've been doing this for a while but before it was more geared to facilitate international collaboration but now it's becoming a little more relevant to everyday people. And there's always gonna be reasons that people can't move freely in this world. Maybe not always, but that they can't cross borders or they can't leave their homes. There's many, many reasons that we need to connect over distance and critically examine what it means to be connected on the internet, especially in times of crisis. Yeah, and it's going back to Lamama's roots which Lamama started by Ellen Stewart in 1961 as a little cafe for a few of her brokenhearted friends who wanted to do their plays and didn't have a place. And so we're just trying to come in and still be a venue for artists to share work. And yeah, what we're doing on Friday nights is like three to five minutes of work for everybody. It's very low stakes, very short. So I'll stop talking now and I'll be excited to hear what everybody else is talking about. Thank you, Maddie. And we, Yala and I, we know Vijay from doing Medea and Vijay introduced us to Maddie and Billy at Culture Hub. So it's just a little bit of the linkage here. So Vijay, can you talk to us about kind of your end and your side of everything? Yeah. So my name is Vijay Mathew. I'm the cultural strategist and a co-founder of HowlRound Theater Commons. And we've been, we're based at Emerson College in Boston and we've been there since 2012. And what we are is a free and open platform for theater makers worldwide in order to share conversation and ideas that are disruptive and progressive. And we do that primarily through online platforms. One is a very active online journal. And then another is a live streaming and video archive platform called HowlRound TV. And our primary role at HowlRound is to facilitate contributions from organizations and artists to amplify their local activity, their local events, their local talks, conferences, performances and amplify that onto a global platform. And we are field facing. So we, for professional, for artists, for theater makers, for performance makers, for organizations to come together in a shared space that's owned by us all. And so we've collaborated with, in a typical year, we'll have about a hundred, a different live streaming events or even more than that. And then also about a hundred different organizations that we're partnering who are producing on the HowlRound TV platform. And so, for example, La Medea was one project that was on HowlRound TV. And also many times we're partnering with a culture hub on several projects every Friday, for example, Downtown Variety, 8 p.m. Eastern East Coast Time, where these are projects that we love to support because they're experimenting with the form of performance. But however, in the U.S., there are a lot of union issues. And so performances are, for the most part, the minority of things that we do on HowlRound TV, the majority of which are conferences and talks like what we're doing right now. And so in terms of kind of what it looks like practically when we partner with an organization or a group of artists to do something, is that we will receive an idea through our Contribute Content page on HowlRound.com, just talking about what the project is. And then what we then do is help that organization or group of artists figure out how they're gonna produce this, just in terms of like what our role will be in terms of building their capacity technically to be able to work with the resources that they have at their disposal. And then we create an announcement to help spread the word to other organizations and artists in our field. And then after the event is over, we archive that event and make it publicly available so that people who miss the event can still have access to that knowledge. And so we really think of our relationship to the field and to artists as an organization that's really there to just to gather everyone's contribution so we can collectively grow and learn from each other. And then I guess in terms of like the actual practical tools of what we're using, so we have an account, an enterprise account with a company called Livestream.com. They're now a Vimeo company. And so that's the backend technical Livestream platform where all of the video gets Livestream too. And we're able to embed a live video player on howround.com as well as on the organizations, the partnering organizations website if they want that. And also we're able to simulcast to both YouTube and Facebook if that's wanted. And then in terms of the software that's typically used for Livestreaming, though there are many of these softwares that are able to Livestream, one of them that I'd highly recommend to any artist out there is to check out OBS Studio, open broadcaster software studio. It's a free and open source software, very powerful recording and Livestreaming software that's able to basically the main idea of it is it's able to take many different sources of audio and video and you're able to make different scenes or compositions with that, with those different sources. And then you're able to either just record locally if you want to make videos or you can create a live show and have it live streamed out to any Livestreaming platform of your choosing. So for example, Twitch or YouTube or Facebook or if you have a subscription, a paid subscription to the various Livestream platforms like Vimeo.com or Livestream.com, you're able to do that too. And then I'll just touch on one other thing, which is the kind of experimentation that you can do and look into using OBS while for example, Live Lab by Culture Hub is still in development, I'm personally very much looking forward to that software as a tool that can be available to the creative performance community to use in a way other than just these kind of typical static boxy kind of live streams while we're in social distancing. But within OBS, you're able to, for example, take a video conference, let's say for example, on Skype. Skype has a tool within it called MDI which stands for Network Device Interface and what that allows you to do is to break off and split off various video feeds of your participants who are, for example, on a video conference and then you can take those video feeds within OBS and compose different scenes or looks with those and then livestream that out. And so in a free way, it's a bit clunky, you can still make something very interesting. And then again, I wanna encourage people to watch the experimentation of various artists and especially what Culture Hub is presenting every Friday night about these examples of what you can do in social distancing when everyone is not able to be in the same room and what you can do in terms of composing something in this kind of way. Just really quick from an artist's perspective, Vijay just showed this program to me very recently and it's very user-friendly. If you're editing film or editing has very similar logic and it almost works better than premieres in a weird way but I highly recommend it as a tool. Thank you, Vijay. Now, so we went through the dance film world and you've been doing live stream for a few years now for various companies and various performances and have sort of an expertise on the setting up your camera and the documentation side of that and what that looks like. So we'd love to hear from you and thanks for joining us. Thanks. Yeah, thank you so much for, we had such a fun call the other day with Yara and Brigid. And thanks so much for just talking. This is such an interesting time. I just give you a little background. My company is now Shelby Productions. I've been filming dance for about, I guess, 18 or 19 years now. I started as an internet jacocella dance festival so it's been a long time. And my love is documenting performance. That's just I do anywhere from one to many, many camera shoots, you know, multiple cameras, usually no more than four. And I started live streaming about, I think it was about 10 years ago. Blue Lizzie Dance Theater asked me to live stream the table of silence at Lincoln Center. And at that time, so backing up a little bit, I was a broadcast major and I love the idea of live. So that's why I was a broadcast and dance major. And I just love television and loved going live. So this whole idea of live stream just seems like a complete natural fit for the work that I do. I just would get very energized from it, which all of us are doing live performance. That's why we get energized from that as well. So I live streamed, did a one camera shoot. It was probably the most painful thing I've ever done in my life about 10 years ago because internet at Lincoln Center even back then was like not great at all. So we were up all night trying to troubleshoot. So now we do, at that space, we still live stream. We're going on our 10th year in September and we do three cameras there. So then from there, I continued to live stream, but doing multiple cameras anywhere from one to two, three, maybe sometimes four cameras. And I am similar to VJ. I used to use livestream.com. I now use Vimeo and we would then also stream simultaneously to Facebook with Table of Silence, which I was just telling you about. We've found comfort in continuing to, we live stream to YouTube and Facebook Live because we feel like there's different audiences on each platform. And we've always streamed to YouTube for the past 10 years. So it just seemed like our audience was there and we liked the engagement, but we actually ended up finding that Facebook Live was actually better. We found a lot more engagement on Facebook Live and really it upped our viewership once we moved or once we did simultaneous live streams. And then a project that maybe some of you have seen is I live streamed the Cunningham Centennial last April. We live streamed it in London, New York and Los Angeles and on the same day, different time zones. And we streamed with Vimeo and with Vimeo back end and then also went to Facebook Live. And the thing there that I thought was really important is Vimeo was great because we were able to put it on the Cunningham website. And so people could go there. It's a lot of times about people's comfort level. That's actually one thing I sort of wanted to talk about as well. Sometimes people like to go directly to the website, like people found comfort in like going to Cunningham's website, seeing all three of the live streams. Other people really love Facebook. They feel comfortable there. And there was a lot of engagement on Facebook. We actually had the Cunningham scholar, Nancy, she was engaging with everyone saying, oh, look, there is this dancer. There's that dancer. Welcome so and so to the live stream. And that just brings such a, well, really, I mean, for lack of better words, it brings with a live element. And I think people had a lot of fun doing that. So that's sort of been what I've been doing. I think right now the past few weeks, as I've like all of us have been pivoting and adjusting and figuring out sort of like what's next. It's been sort of probably like many of the artists that are watching today and all of you that for me, my work has not been online, even though I live stream, it's like I film a live performance that is live streamed. And I will find one interesting thing that I really love and excites me right now is I have found resistance in the past from live streaming, sort of what VJ was saying, that there's a lot of like rights issues and things like that, but also just like, oh no, are we gonna lose an audience? Those kinds of things, those conversations that a lot of us have, like will people still come to the theater? But the one thing that I think is great now is everyone has no choice but to be comfortable to do this work, whether it's DIY, whether it's once we all get back up and going, whether we're doing live performance, that we now are feeling like this is almost going to be like second nature for all of us. We're all learning at like a rapid speed, whether you've been doing this for a while or not. And so what I've been noticing the past few weeks that I've just been answering some very practical questions for people and I just sort of wanted to sort of go there right now before my time runs out. But one thing that I work a lot with the Department of Education, so you all know that they've been trying to just get everything, these dance teachers have been trying to get things up online. So been talking about framing, which seems like something that you don't think about. Like right now you're seeing, it's very easy, we're sort of all half body. But then like how do you frame yourself like full body? Recently, I just loved that Alvin Ailey just put out revelations, they did like an edit. So if you all haven't seen that, it's super fun. Well, actually, no, it wasn't revelations, it was Renny Harris's work on Ailey. But they probably told their dancers, like you could tell that someone gave them direction, put their phone or their laptop a little further back so you can get full body. And so those are things to think about. And also the lighting is like right now, I actually have a softbox on me. And I typically don't when I'm on a zoom call, but I thought I would do that just for today. But, and not everyone's going to have a softbox light, this is the work I do. But there's some really cheap options on Amazon. If this is something where you wanna start moving into again, not no pressure at all, it's just like there's sometimes some really inexpensive options of just putting up a light in your home. And then also thinking about natural light as well. If you're outside, it's so much easier. And then, so I think that one thing, another thing that I've just been thinking about also is just taking that imperfect action, like not worried about making this perfect. That's what we all do as artists, like we wanna make everything as good as possible before it goes out on stage. But like right now, like Yara was saying, experimenting and sort of like letting loose and like having fun and being joyful. I think that's what I've been trying to do as well. This is making me think so far out of the box. Like to me, a stage dancer is like, what is my comfort level? And that is not possible right now. So then what are we, how are we thinking outside of the box? And I think another thing that we're also used to as artists is collaborating. So just like picking up the phone and talking to someone and like I'm trying to figure out how to do this. What do you think? And that's exactly what I did right before this call. I called Ben, who's my live stream tech. And I was like, can we talk for a second? So I think I'll stop there. But I think it's a fun time, a really hard time. But I think that there's so much possibility. Thank you so much everybody. I'm gonna bring in some questions that some of you watching have asked. The first is sort of related to this, but can anyone talk about how this event was set up? It was powered by Zoom, but it's being hosted on HowlRound. How was it embedded into the website? Yeah, I could talk about that. So this is a Zoom Pro account that HowlRound has. And we have this because we're based at Emerson College in Boston. And so that was just kind of the video conferencing platform that they had and so we decided to use it. And one of the things that Zoom Pro is able to do is it has a feature where you can input an RTMP server and stream key, which is basically just information to tell Zoom where to send the video audio to a live streaming platform of your choice. So we have an account with livestream.com. And so we went to livestream.com to get this RTMP key and then we put it into Zoom. And then within our Zoom window here, just when we started this event, Thea who works with us on HowlRound TV, she just pressed go live. And then we started to live stream, send the Zoom call out to livestream.com. And you're probably viewing this on a video player, iframe, probably on the Creative Capital website, if I got that right, and also on HowlRound.com's website as well. And we'll make sure because I work with technology but I'm a director, I'm an artist. So I often have trouble understanding the details. So we'll make sure that we include links to a lot of what we're talking about, just more information and links in our guide on Creative Capital. So don't panic if you're not following. We'll make sure this is a very short session we have. So we'll make sure to include as much as we can in that guide. Another thing to note is that Vimeo live stream right now, they are offering to nonprofit organizations and educational institutions free. You can fill out a form and the link is on our blog post and you can have a free access to, I think their premium level of Vimeo live stream. And that is until I believe July 2020, July 1st, 2020, as of right now. So that's another sort of resource that's come available and the link is in the blog post. Another question. And if you're an independent artist, feel free to reach out to institutions to give you that access. And if also you're an independent artist and don't have access to Zoom Pro, feel free to reach out to the school you went to, or any institutions that you've ever collaborated with, this is a time to really reach out to your whole network for that access. Another, so these are a few questions. So I'm kind of combining some questions, but one is about best kind of sound setup, especially if your kind of mics are there, also what are ways to avoid audio latency on collaborative video streams. And then partnered with that, is a laptop a good option as a camera and a capture device or should, what are some other options in terms of considering like what kind of camera to use? So audio and camera. Just in terms of cameras, you can use professional cameras, but right now I'm using a Logitech webcam, which is, I don't know how expensive it is, but it's pretty small and I have it on a mini tripod. So it's also very mobile, and so I can do a lot with it just from, so you wouldn't have to like move your whole laptop around. And I also use the sound through there, but now I messed up my little framing. And for audio, it's really about what you have available to you, particularly if you're using a MIDI controller interface. Yeah, you have to be really aware of what you have available to you. And a lot of the times the webcam sound will actually be okay, but if you're using speakers or external sound, it's best to put that through the stream as opposed to just playing that, and then your computer hears it and then sends it away. Is there any, in terms of people playing, if there are multiple people who like multiple musicians for like performances or any way to best recommend capturing multiple sources of audio? Is this your question referring to people in different locations? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah. Yeah, so I mean, for us right now, like we're avoiding latency isn't really possible, like we can get latency lower, but it's not possible to have actual, like that becomes a creative challenge that you have to tackle in your playing. Last night we live streamed a performance of called Raga Makam, which was for artists collaborating in, and yeah, they just basically incorporated that little delay into their collaboration. And it was highly improvisational and they went a little bit round Robin, but it really became like a pleasure to watch them learn and then get the little bit of the funny interactions that would happen, the things that went maybe wrong to them, but it's, yeah, I think it's just important to think about technology as a collaborator and not as something that you can do right or wrong. Like I don't come from a tech background, but I'm working in this setting. So what I like about it is that it requires me to ask a lot of questions and it requires me to just be honest with like where I'm at. And yeah, I mean, I have people that I can ask those questions to. So I would encourage you if you had questions to please reach out to us at Culture Hub. Yeah. I also say that if you're broadcasting just you as a musician, we had a talk with Twitch last night that was really great because they were taking us through, there was actual backend settings in if you have a Twitch account that you could choose to have different kinds of audio settings that if you don't have microphones or anything else that have access to getting that stuff, at least you have a little bit of something to work with. And I don't know about Vimeo yet, but I do know that Twitch does have that ability. So another question is, oh, in terms of also related to sound but is the rights of music, like how to, if you're live streaming and you're live streaming something and you're using music, like, you know, if you were to upload it on Vimeo or on YouTube it would be blocked because of their copyright claims. So does anyone have any experience with that or can speak to using the rights of music? Yeah, so assuming that it's fair use, which in most cases when artists are using it in our field, it is fair use for copyrighted music. I mean, there's some caveats to that, but the way to get it around, for example, posting it on YouTube and getting YouTube to then their software to find it and then run ads or some kind of copyright strike or block, there's also a platform, nonprofit called archive.org, where you can upload it there and they're able to provide an embeddable video player that you can then take to your own website if you'd like. This is another related question in terms of accessibility, but considering widespread inaccessibility of online videos for deaf and hard of hearing due to complexity and costs of live captioning and sign language interpreters, what can artists do to ensure their live streams are accessible? I just saw a nice example last night. Solonathon in Chicago was live streaming and they just, their admin, they were live streaming on Facebook and their admin just posted some of the, this is obviously not a big solution, but it's a little solution. Yeah, they were just typing in the comments what the hosts or people were announcing. They were just reiterating. Also, I mean, it's useful, I think, for people who learn in different ways or receive information in different ways. It's easy to miss something if I just said it out loud and maybe you were distracted and looking over there or yeah, maybe you are hard of hearing. Yeah, they would add information in the comments section and I thought that was really simple but really helpful because I came in the middle of a performance and I could see, oh, that's this person from this place. And I appreciated that. One thing that has also come up is that in terms of the way that these audiences interact is that once you kind of build an audience that's interacting with you, they also become a collaborator and so they'll start explaining to people what's happening or what's going on. So as the artist, you're not also responsible for doing that too. So that's something else that can grow out of like interactive community and where you start to have a bigger following on a live streaming platform. This like particularly came out of our conversation with Twitch and that's sort of part of what happens from the building of those communities is that your audience starts to support you in that way and can help people who are like, I'm from like, oh, what's going on here? And say, oh, this is what this is. So another example of that. From Pamela, one of our collaborators who says that Jam Kazam takes care of delay for musician collaborators. So I don't know if anyone's used it but maybe it's a good resource. We'll add it to the guide. Thanks Pamela. Yeah. So I think we have time for one more question. Okay, so this is a question about for artists just starting out streaming with a large viewership, what is your advice for beginning to build interactive elements into a stream within the limitations of a small audience which can often restrict the amount of interaction possible? So I think that I can only answer it from our experience, but something that I think is key is to know where first what your work is and what your work is trying to say. So the different platforms have different functions and they work almost like theater venues or concert venues where like some venues feel like a black box, others feel like a proscenium. So it just depends the energy that you want to give to the work. If it's a workshop, if it's something you're just messing around with. But the other thing to think about as far as like if your work is interactive, something that we really thought about with Medea is, okay, well, where is our audience living and can we bring that audience to another space? So if most of your audience sees your work through theater platforms, maybe that's your community, maybe you wanna play with going into spaces that the theater audience is already familiar with. So going to where your audience already is and then if you wanna go into another platform like we did with Twitch, we basically just kind of asked our audience to come with us to Twitch. But what we really found was a new audience at Twitch which was interesting. But I think it is sort of focusing on the work first for us. And then depending what the work needs for us, the work needed interactive conversation that first go around, the second go around, we were really excited to work in a more formal space like how round, so that was really interesting as well. So it just depends what the work needed. And then bringing the audience already had cultivated for example, an Instagram to the more formal space of another platform. So I think that was a key thing for us. So this is coming to the end of our, our little conversation here about live streaming. Just wanna say thank you to Creative Capital, thank you to Jay and Hal, and to Thea, and thank you Maddie and Nell for joining us. A quick shout out to everybody, check out Culture Hub and their downtown variety on Fridays. Also, HowlRound is doing so many things right now. They have something at five, so you can just keep on going. And Nell will also be offering, I think one-on-one brainstorming sessions. So you can reach out to Nell and we'll have links to all this also in that blog post. Yeah, and we have information as well in the guide about all the different platforms and a bunch of stuff in there that we weren't able to get to here. Thanks everybody. And if you haven't checked out our website yet, creative-capital.org, we've been collecting a long list of artist resources there. So yeah, I encourage you to take a minute to look. Thanks everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Thank you.