 Jack Dorsey says, Noster is counterculture today and has the potential to stay that way. The open and wildly decentralized development model keeps it punk. So that's an interesting assertion because he's saying the medium is the message here and that just the very design of Noster is going to keep it that way. It's going to keep that punk ethos indefinitely. Do you think that's right or is it going to kind of evolve new norms as the user base, if and when the user base grows? When I learned about Noster, it was a little bit too early and these guys were playing it that I was too busy with Bitcoin. And then I think it came back a few months ago. I was like, okay, holy crap, this thing is really sort of like now the clients work. This is great. And I think Jack joined as well and he sort of did a little bit of an infusion of cash and attention and that project sort of like taken off. It's working and it's been a blast. Here's an example of I think this post from Odell really distills down the Noster culture. It's going to make no sense to anybody who has not been on the network. Pure Vita, stay humble and stack sets and then kind of hang loose of OG. Underneath there says PV, hang loose. What does any of that mean? Go ahead, Will. You integrated into the client. So Jack has had a huge influence on at least the Dhamma's client. So right when he started joining, he would do the Shaka, the hang loose emoji to every person who joined. So eventually we changed the like button to, which was the heart on Twitter, we changed it to the Shaka. So it's like, because it makes more sense and Jack agreed, it's just anyway. So the culture is kind of like is evolving and we're kind of integrating into the client over time. And Pure Vita I think is a term from you know, Costa Rica or something where it just means pure life. And it's, I don't know, it just, it kind of took, it just, it took off and now we use it for everything. So it's got that, you know, Jack's positive attitude. It's got that like laid back vibe to it. That's kind of. And it's, I mean, it seems like a bit of surfer culture kind of thrown in a positive way. You know, I think we should definitely bring up to this audience that Jack was like a Walmart greeter for, for like pretty much everybody who joined on the first, on the, on the big wave that came in, what was it three, four, three months ago, two months ago. It was, it was fun to see. What does that say to you, the fact that the founder of Twitter is certainly, he's got to be the most high profile backer. He certainly put, you know, the most money into the project. What does Jack Dorsey's involvement mean for Nostar? It's validating, right? I mean, you know, Will, like you closely, like more working. Oh yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, he, he said, this is what, this was a big post that he did on Nostar. He's like, this is what Twitter felt like at 5,000 users, but better. And so I feel like Jack, this is kind of what he always wanted to build is an open free speech protocol that's like real time. It reminds him a lot. Like, it's nostalgic to him from the early days of Twitter when, because Nostar's actually was very much like what it felt like in the early days of Twitter, more real time and like open protocol, open APIs. So I think he's like, yeah, nostalgic. And he just wants to, you know, he wants to like take that, what he had it in the early days of Twitter and he, and relive it in Nostar and build it out. So it's kind of cool. Yeah. Sorry guys. Like, what's really cool is that like he is contributing a lot financially too to a lot of projects. And like, but the community itself is doing as well. We actually have a website, bountsrsr.org where people put bounties for features and projects and people are building like this hablo.news and there were others. So, so if you're a dev out there watching this, do go check out and participate. A couple of years ago at the Bitcoin Miami conference, Alex Gladstone of Human Rights Foundation interviewed Jack Dorsey, who I, you know, I think I find Jack Dorsey to be the most inspiring and very tech leader that we have. And he was talking about how Twitter never should become the platform where people speak, but it should, you know, the internet or there should be a Twitter of Twitters. There should just be, you know, a kind of utopia of utopias. You know, it's a very libertarian, very disperse, very decentralized things. Two questions. Part of the power of Twitter, and this is also true of Facebook and before it was true of, you know, AOL back when it had a walled garden is that it is a place where lots and lots of people are. And is there, is there a necessary tradeoff between the size of the audience, which gives things a lot of power and a lot of meaning and the ability to kind of control your experience or to have maximum freedom? Is that just, is that just a tradeoff? That's one question. And then the second one, is there a way that you can see or has Jack Dorsey talked about this of integrating Nostra with Twitter so that you can participate in Twitter without having to worry about, you know, Elon Musk as a sugar, you know, blood sugar spike and blocks you forever and ever. And like, you know, the past 10 years or 15 years of your fucking life is just locked away from you forever. So like, first of all, protocols shouldn't be companies, right? They should be an open protocol that anybody builds on top. Yes, Twitter could create a client, could create a relay tomorrow. And I mean, like Twitter could literally push all the tweets into a relay as the author, or they could, you know, go really the proper route and create like a key pair for each user and sort of like go that direction. So yes, it's totally possible that they could participate in this. But at least in my view, like most people don't want freedom, most people just want a better sell. So you have to give people tools for them to sort of like censor the things they want to censor for themselves. And, you know, and we're going to see this, we're going to see relays where it's like, I don't know, like a PG 13, right? A PG 13 relay where, you know, you follow those guidelines and you're okay if your kids go on that relay. And that's sort of like the moral set that you have. And but the key here is choice, right? It's not preventing the people who do want freedom to have that freedom. Hey, thanks for watching that excerpt from our conversation with NVK and Will Kassarin about Nostra and the future of the decentralized web. Check out the full interview in the description below and tune in every Thursday at 1 p.m. Eastern to catch these conversations live and subscribe to recent TV and hit the notifications bell to find out any time our videos go live.