 The Mac Observers' Mac Geek Gap Episode 670 for Sunday, August 13th, 2017. And welcome to the Mac Observers' Mac Geek Gap, the show where you send in tips, questions, cool stuff found. We show your tips. We answer your questions. We share cool stuff found. The goal, of course, being all of us to learn at least four new things each and every time we get together. Sponsors for this episode include BB Edit from Barebones Software at Barebones.com. We'll talk more about that later. And Iroh, the new mesh wireless sensation at Iroh, E-E-R-O.com where coupon code MGG gets you free overnight shipping if you put it together just so. We'll talk more about that a little bit later here in Durham, New Hampshire. I'm Dave Hamilton. Here in Fairville, Connecticut, John F. Brown. How goes it, Mr. F. Brown? Eh, you know. Comes and it goes, huh? It goes. It's coming. It's going. Yeah, chronic. You know, it's how it goes. Hey, a bunch of cool stuff found. We'll start right off the top with Dave. Dave, not me, but listener Dave. Dave says the Soft Reno folks recently released a new version of their YouTube downloader, which they call SYC2 or Soft Reno YouTube Converter 2. Essentially, this downloads any YouTube video in any of the standard resolutions and stores it on your Mac or wireless. He stores it on your iPhone or iPad or stuffs it into iTunes. He talks about how it works quite well. And he says, I also use Soft Reno's Walter 2 tool, WALTR2, to move audio files onto my iPhone without going through iTunes, another incredibly well-built product that does one thing very well. You're totally right about the Soft Reno folks, and especially with WALTR, man. It works really well and it's magic because a lot of those movies that WALTR can just magically put directly onto your iPhone or iPad, iTunes would actually want to convert to what they call an iOS-capable format, even though there are many more iOS-capable formats, but iTunes would either not send it or ask you to convert it first. So, very, very good stuff. Thank you for sharing that, Dave. Fun. And we actually have two for the same cool stuff found. Both listener Todd and Stefan have recommendations for Beatoons, B-E-A-T-U-N-E-S. We'll start with Todd and perhaps finish up with Stefan. He says, it seems like Beatoons would assist the many listeners who have reached out over the years looking to fix or straighten out their iTunes libraries. And Stefan sort of adds a little more color to that. He says, in Show 658, in response to a listener complaining about Apple Music screwing up his album art in iTunes, you talked about TuneUp, or its latest incarnation, TuneUp relaunch as a way to fix metadata. Dave said that he was not able to find any other software on the market to do this. Allow me to help. After the original TuneUp's future became questionable, I searched for an alternative and found one with Beatoons, B-E-A-T-U-N-E-S, from tag-traum industries. The program will not only analyze your iTunes music for various issues, but also build playlists based on criteria like mood, BPM, and other things. It is multi-language and cross-platform. It's a Java application. But it looks totally native on macOS and is frequently updated. It even has an API that allows you to build your own plugins for it. So there you go. And then we get a bonus. Cool stuff found from Stefan in Show 667. A listener looked for a way to tag photos on the iPhone. This prompted me to look for an app, as I also wanted this feature. My search tuned up MetaGear by Ilya Kuznetsov. Oh, sorry, I got that wrong. Kuznetsov. This app integrates with photos where it can, oh, what did I do to myself? Where it can be called from the editing tools icon of a photo. There you can view, edit, or delete various EXIF and IPTC categories. Tags can be found under keywords. So that's pretty cool. I like both of those. That's good stuff. And Beatoons, pretty good. Hey, I want to talk while we're right here about this, though, John, because Stefan mentioned that Beatoons is a Java app. And Java, we've talked about this on the show a couple of times, but it bears repeating, a Java app, Java has gotten a bad rap for all of the security holes that can exist when you're running Java inside a web browser from a website. Because that website could execute nefarious code and all of that stuff. Running a Java application like Beatoons on your Mac is very different from running a Java app in your web browser from an unknown source. So I don't have any problem running a Java app. Crashplan is a Java app. And sort of got lumped in with that whole Java bad rhetoric that was going on. And it's just not. You install the Java engine, it does not make your web browser less secure. It's all good. You have any thoughts to add some color to that, John? No, I'm fine with Java. You're fine with Java, yeah. I mean, there's one app that I run, which I wouldn't need to anymore if I waited, but the utility that configures my TP-Link switch is actually a Java app. Yeah. Cool. You also have to do something kind of crazy to get it to run. You have to do some sort of firewall reconfiguration because the way it runs under Windows, which is the expected environment. It's actually a Java app inside of like a Windows EXE. It's really weird. Now it's that same switch. It has a web interface as any switch should. Running an app is just silliness. Sure. Well, for that kind of thing, for something that's a network device that you need to connect to over the network, yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. Cool. All right. And then, moving onward, Tripit, one of my favorite things. If you travel, I talk about traveling a lot on the show, but I don't travel a ton. I mean, maybe I'm on airplanes. These days, it's even less than it used to be, but it's probably three to five times a year. But even with that, Tripit and their Tripit Pro service are totally worth it because they know all of the, they are hyper-focused on delivering all of the things that travelers need like flight updates. They keep track of delays and alert you to check-ins and all of that stuff. And then they also try to make kind of your in-travel experience better. And this week, they just added interactive airport maps. So if you're in an airport and you need to find something there, Tripit has tons of airports now in the app and will provide you walking, step-by-step walking directions to get you to where you need to go in the airport, which can be super handy and save you a ton of time. Just like GPS with your car, you know, if you're not guessing, which is the best path to use to get somewhere, that's always a good thing. So I was pretty stoked to see Tripit add that. You use Tripit when you travel, right, John? No. Really? Oh. Oh. No, never jumped on that bandwagon. OK. It's a good bandwagon to be on. Again, I mean, I know you travel a little bit less than me, but still, when you're doing it, it's just the best part about it is, I don't know if there's a best part, sort of the core functionalities. You just dump all of your travel reservations into Tripit and it organizes them into trips and keeps everything good. And the way you dump them in is you just forward when you get your hotel confirmation or your airline confirmation or whatever, you just forward it to plansattripit.com and it aggregates it all and puts it all together and builds a nice little itinerary and schedule that you don't have to think about. So it's pretty awesome. Yeah, good. All right. I will say I'm all electronic in my recent travels. Of course, now they have you on that bandwagon, too. Yeah. Well, like, you know, we did our last train trip. They have a iPhone app where you show them your screen and they somehow know if you paid for a ticket or not, which I think is cool. They don't know if you paid. Actually, they do. Yeah, they kind of do. No, they do. It shows three color bars that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not scanning the bar code, but you're right. The app still makes it pretty clear that you paid. Yeah. Yeah. And all my flights as of late, I've, you know, used the. Yeah, like the, you know, the one to Mac stock was actually kind of cool. So, you know, I didn't even check my bag because I had a small bag because of a short trip. But just, you know, waltzed right up there, got my. You know, the scan my boarding pass, did electronic check in. I made them do the touchy feely because I didn't want to go through the radiation. I don't like that electronic part at all. Well, you know, sometimes it's good. All right, Joe, let's Joe, bringing bringing us back to cool stuff found, Joe says, hey, guys, I smiled when you mentioned the Logitech MX Master that works across multiple PCs. That was the the mouse that magically allows you to see it's a move and control two different computers with just with one mouse. You've obviously not seen the link. Logitech is great, but buying their expensive mouse for this feature, I say, but no thanks. Let's go all the way with the full KVM feature set over IP plus drag and drop copy paste and across Mac, Windows and Linux. It's from Simless.com and it's called Synergy. And oh, yeah, it's only 19 bucks, 29 if you want to do it with SSL. He says I paid more for a two way wired KVM than I would wrestle around with stiff cables constantly. I think I'm in love. So KVM is keyboard, video, mouse, tying it all together. And yeah, this is just software to do it. Seems pretty, pretty cool. So we will put that in the show notes, too. I like it. I like it. It's pretty good. Thoughts about that, John? No. No. OK, awesome. Get some caffeine. In the meantime, I have a tip to share. We recently started talking about iOS 11 and the betas and all that on the show. And I ran into a problem with two both, in fact, I should say, of my iOS 11 devices. And that is I routinely use spotlight on iOS to launch apps. I do it by, you know, I pull down from the top of the screen, start typing the name of an app and it, you know, it finds it. And then I launch it. Great. So if I want to launch, say, Dropbox, I start typing DRO. I'll get a few apps with, you know, that contain that phrase DRO. And then boom, I'm good to go. And I've done this with iOS 10 by going into settings and I've really I've tweaked this by going to iOS 10 settings. You go to general and spotlight search and then in that it gets a little interesting, right? Because I don't like to necessarily see results from the contents of Dropbox in my search. I just want to launch Dropbox. So I've gone in to settings general on iOS 10, this is in prior into spotlight search and turned off the search results switches for most of my apps, like especially things like contacts. I just I don't search for contacts that way. And I don't want them to show up that way. But I do want to be able to launch the contacts app that way. And that has worked very, very well. Well, with iOS 11, that setting has changed, but it is inherited. So if I had turned off, say, Dropbox and contacts in that place in iOS 10, and then I go into settings on iOS 11, if I go into settings and Siri and search, so it's not inside general anymore. Now I have a list of apps at the bottom and they there is generally at least one option in them, sometimes more. And that option is search and Siri suggestions. And if I had turned it off on iOS 10, iOS 11 inherits that on the search and the Siri and search suggestions. The problem is by turning that off on iOS 11, the app doesn't appear in my drop down list or in my search results unless I type the entire name of the app. So in the case of Dropbox on iOS 10, even with this option turned off, I could type DRO and Dropbox would appear on iOS 11. I can type DRO PBO and it does not appear. And then I type X and boom, it appears. So I will have to go through painstakingly and re-enable search and Siri suggestions on all of my iOS 11 devices. So I recommend doing it on your iOS 10 device before you do the upgrade because it's way faster to do it there than it is to do it on on iOS 11. But if you search for apps to launch them, that's the only way to do it. Pretty interesting, John. Yeah, and I will report this to Apple because it feels like if it's going to if it's going to surface the application name when I type the full name, well, then it should surface it when I type partial names too. So maybe this is a bug. I will report it to Apple. But for those of you, certainly those of you using the beta, this is it's good to know. Thoughts, John. I'm not running the beta. Aha. I only have one one device. Oh, that's right. Yeah, I am running the beta on my on my main device now. I started with with developer beta for the developer preview five. I guess it's called so, which is I I believe very, very similar, if not the same as public beta four. So and that setting in iOS 10 to answer the question from Karan in our chat room at mackey gov dot com slash stream is in settings. General spotlight search. So it has moved. So yes, anyway, very, very interesting. All right, John, shall we shall we talk a little bit about backups? Now that we now that we've gotten iOS 11 out of the way, we have a question from Tyler, which is sort of related to I think it's actually very much related to the high Sierra, the changes coming with high Sierra. Tyler asks, in the last episode, it was mentioned that there are the new APFS file system would only function on SSDs. Will this also be true for cloned drives and backup drives? I currently run Time Machine to an Apple airport and also Time Machine to an external with clones going to a NAS. All right, so I want to I want to go in reverse order of this. I want to address the second part of his question first. And then I want to talk about APFS on non SSDs, because I think you've got some experience with that, John. But in terms of this clones, the way we generally discuss them here are file copies, right? Where you say, OK, I want to make that drive there look exactly like this drive here. So go and clone or copy all the files. And that's what carbon copy cloner does. That's what SuperDuper does. And with that type of file copy, it doesn't matter if the two mediums, the two disks are of the same format, right? It just doesn't matter because all we're doing is copying files. Now, both of them need to support the same type of file naming structures and any limitations on one, you know, would potentially cause a conflict. But in a general sense, it doesn't matter. Certainly the format of the disk doesn't matter. Just like you can copy files from your Mac to a Windows formatted thumb drive, same kind of thing here. So carbon copy cloner cloning your APFS formatted internal SSD to an externally formatted HFS plus drive, no problem. It does get a little weird when you start doing recovery partitions and all of that stuff. And actually, the folks over at Bombic Software have a blog post sort of talking about those nuances and they're working on high Sierra support. They may have a beta out with it. I'm not exactly sure yet, but even without that, just doing your normal daily clones, not going to be a problem. And, you know, when you're, and then Time Machine, Time Machine will be completely rewritten for APFS because of all the sort of differences there. But even then, Time Machine essentially does file copies. And then it does some hard linking and things like that on the destination. But it does file copies and on a NAS drive, if you're backing up, either cloning or copying your NAS drive, very likely, isn't APFS or HFS plus, it's whatever format the NAS is, which is often EXT3 or EXT4 or sometimes BTRFS. So, you know, formats don't matter. And generally on a NAS, when you're doing a clone, depending on how you're doing it, you might be doing it to a disk image. You might just be doing it as raw files and you can do it either way with things like Carbon Copy Cloner. So before we move on to the other thing, John, thoughts about that part of it that you have to share? I'm with you. They're working on it. I was perusing what a Carbon Copy Cloner has to say. And there are some issues and they're working on it. Right. Right. But the general copies are OK, right? Yeah. Yeah, the issues come up and they're addressing them. And I guess they found some, you know, problems. But, you know, making something usable and bootable, making it a true clone, right, can be a challenge, especially if you're going, if you're going from one file system to another. Does that make sense? Yep. Yep. All right. So now back to the first part of his question. And we talked a little bit about this last week and said we would follow up running APFS on non-SSDs. It's not going to do it by default, but you can make it do it. Right? Kind of. Well, you know, I tried this because I, you know, I have the beta on an external non-SSD rotational drive. OK. And I was actually able, using Disutility to format it as APFS. Sure. And then I tried to install the beta 5, developer beta 5, and it's like, no, no, no. Oh, because you can't boot from a rotational drive running APFS, right? Well, the OS just refused to install. It's like I am not going to install on this rotational drive with APFS. You have to make it HFS plus. Isn't that interesting? That makes sense. It existed. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Yeah. The thing is, technically I don't see why they wouldn't fork. I guess the bad things happened of APFS is probably not optimized for rotational drives. So that's why they say, no, stop it. Don't do this. Well, you know, Jeff Butts and I did a bunch of testing. We talked about it on the show, but back in March and April, we did a bunch of testing, performance testing of APFS. And it's not even optimized for SSDs yet. And I talked with some little birdies at Apple who confirmed that, that, yeah, yeah, yeah. We have it stable, not fast. So, I mean, that's good, you know, stable, but not fast. So, in where it's not fast is in raw transfer speed. So if you have like big, like again, you know, video files or that kind of thing where you're just moving gobs of data back and forth, APFS is going to fall. It's about 30% short of HFS plus. And by the way, that's true on both Mac OS and on iOS. So there you go. Because we're all, well, anybody that's running, what, 10, 3, 1 and later, including iOS 11 is running APFS on your iPhone and iPad and all that stuff. So, but yes, to comment or to share Brian and Rose comment and support that. He says stable is good. And I totally agree. Yeah. And for most of the things that most of us do, we're not like the raw speed of the drive is really not important. It's, you know, kind of the speed of things like finder duplications and all of that where the efficiencies of APFS really, really shine. And so stable is good. I agree. Any more thoughts on that, Mr. Braun? Moving on. Moving on. All right. Steve, you want to take, you want to take, take a run at Steve here, John? Actually, you know what I want to do before we go to Steve? Because I have a feeling we will go for a while on this. I want to talk about our two sponsors. So our first sponsor today is BB Edit from Bare Bones Software. BB Edit, you know, it's just one of my favorite apps. And it sounds crazy. I say this often that I love a text editor as much as I do. But man, like, there's so much that we do on our computers that use text or that uses text. And BB Edit is so good at manipulating and just showing you text files without any crazy formatting or anything like that. It's just text. And so it's really great to be able to take some text from one place. Like, what I use it for, there are things that I use it for that I'm very intentional about. And it like the BB Edit feature set is awesome for. And that's like comparing two files, which I do all the time, highlights the differences, or counting, just simply counting the words and characters in a file. You know, a lot of times when you're filling out like a web form or something, it says, you know, limit your response to 200 characters. But they won't give you a counter. It's like crap. And so, you know, I bring it over and I do it and BB Edit and I can see the little counter running and I edit and I, you know, parse and there you go. It's okay. And then I copy and paste it back into the web form. But, you know, one of the things that I use constantly is when I'm copying text and it comes with all this formatting or whatever, I just do a round trip through BB Edit. I paste it into BB Edit, which only is a text editor. So it just can't even fathom any of that other formatting. Then I copy it out of BB Edit and I paste it in elsewhere. Really, really handy stuff. You got to check it out. Go to Barebones.com. Check out BB Edit. You can download a free trial. Beautiful, beautiful stuff. Thanks so much to Barebones for sponsoring this episode. Our second sponsor is Eero, E-E-R-O.com who just came out with their second generation mesh product. You folks know that I am obsessed with routers. I've built quasi meshes in my home for the last 10 years. Eero could not have come soon enough. They really pioneered this in-home mesh concept. And now, because they were here first, they've now got their second generation of hardware out. So the second generation of hardware has a lot of cool things. First of all, it adds a completely different form factor of device called the beacon, which just plugs into an electrical outlet and still participates in, extends, is a fully-blown mesh point and in fact is even 30% faster than the original E-R-Os when it's used that way. And then there's the second-gen E-R-O Ethernet-capable base station that could work as your router or work as a mesh point if you want to do it that way. And this adds a third radio so that you get two five gigahertz radios in these second-gen E-R-Os plus the one 2.4 gigahertz radio. That means, and it can be dynamically reconfigured, and of course E-R-O takes care of all that. You don't have to think about it, but it can use that extra radio for the backhaul between the devices or for the fronthaul to your iPhones and MacBooks and things like that. Very, very cool, very, very well done. And the second-gen E-R-O adds QOS for your WAN port for that buffer bloat protection, and they are using the best-in-class algorithm, FQ-Codel. I've tried this here. I've got an E-R-O to set up with the beacons going in the office. It is stellar how well it works, and it's just so easy. You just plug this stuff in, it figures it out, and it goes. Really, really well done. I just put together a piece teaching everyone how to choose the right mesh for you, and it will come as no great surprise, and it has nothing to do with the fact that their sponsor, E-R-O, came to the top of that list for me. Again, you can read the article and decide for yourself. Really, really cool stuff. You've got to check it out. So, here's the deal. They've got a deal for you because you're a Mac-EatGab listener. So visit E-R-O.com, E-E-R-O.com. Choose which package you want. You can get one with two beacons and a base station, or you can get one with three base stations, or you can buy a base station separately. Mix and match to whichever one you want. Add it to your cart, add overnight shipping. They're going to put a charge in for overnight shipping. Don't hit buy yet. Put in the coupon code MGG, and once you apply that, that will then make the overnight shipping free. So visit E-R-O.com, E-E-R-O.com. Free shipping. Add coupon code MGG to get that. Overnight shipping. You'll have E-R-O next business day. I was going to say you'll have it tomorrow. You know, somebody would yell at me if I say that. So next business day. That's just how it's going to go. Because that's how shipping works. Our sincere thanks to E-R-O for both doing what they do and for sponsoring this episode. All right, John, take it away, man. All right, Steve has something to say. We got something to say about what Steve has to say. But it's a good topic to revisit. It is. So Steve says, I know you know, but not everyone seems to remember always hold down shift and or option when selecting menus. There's many good things hidden in there. He's right about that. For sure. All right, here's where, well... Which menu is Steve talking about in particular, John? He's talking about the time machine menu. Aha! Which you should have. I think almost everyone has, but it's a little clock with an arrow going in the wrong direction. Because it's going back in time. Isn't that cool? And if you click on that, normally you will see a few options. Back up now, enter time machine and open time machine preferences. And then he goes on, and this is where it gets kind of squirrely. Squirrel. Well, no, it read what he said because... What he says? Yes. There's some nuances to this. Contrary to your assertion, the time machine isn't a real backup since it doesn't verify. Well, it can if you want it to. Okay, sure. It only works on a network backup like a time machine or a Synology, so completely worthwhile for many of us. There's also a lot more magic in the TM utility available in the shelf for the hardcore user. Take a look at TMUtil-compare. Hang on, let me fill in the missing gap here. So, Steve is alerting us to the fact that if you go to the time machine menu and hold down the option key, you will see the backup now option change to verify backups, but only if it's a network backup. And that's what Steve has said. And it'll also say browse other backup disks, which is kind of interesting. Yeah, and that's true. Yes, that's right. And then if you hold down shift, it gets even more interesting. I've seen the verify backups menu, but I honestly was not aware of what happens when you hold down shift. If you hold down shift, you will actually see backup with consistency scan and enter time machine. And then I think this is where it gets complicated. So one, I'm going to shake my fist. So the thing is, Steve interpreted this to mean that it does verification. And... He's not wrong. It depends on how you want to define verification. Now first, I want to shake my fist at them because they're using two different terms here. So if you hold down one, it says verify backups, and then the other one says consistency scan. In Apple's world, as far as I can tell, those are the same thing, but they're not doing... To me, verify means that you're going to... that you take the source and the destination and you compare them and make sure that they're in sync with each other. To me, that is what a true verification of a backup is. That's right. And time machine never does that. How? No, it never compares... Well, not out of the box. No, no. It never compares the source to the destination. What is possible from the command line maybe is to compare the backup to the checksum that was made at the time the backup was done. It's still not comparing the source. It never... The nearest I can tell, there's nothing in time machine that will do that. But since I believe El Capitan, but certainly Sierra, time machine does store a checksum. So it could be argued that that's enough of the source data, but it stores it in the backup and then you can ask it to compare those things. But it never goes back and compares to the source. However... I think the checksum, it actually... I think it's recomputing it and I think it's comparing to what was computed. What was computed at the time of the backup? Correct. But that's not comparing back to the source. That's comparing to what it did back when it backed up. Two different things. I know it's nuanced, but it is important to highlight that. But here's the bigger thing before we get lost in those weeds. This verify backups option or backup with consistency scan is only available on network drives. Now, there's a significant difference between what happens when you backup locally to a direct attached disk and when you backup to a network drive. And the difference is locally, it's just doing a file copy. That's it. And it's doing some hard linking on the destination so that it can get things all right. But it's just a file copy. There's no interim step. When you backup across a network, there is an interim step. And that interim step is it creates an HFS plus disk image on the destination and then opens that up and stuffs the backups inside it. And that's because Time Machine, at least with Sierra, is built to only work with HFS plus. And since you're, as we just discussed, your NAS drive is an HFS plus, this gets it to the point where it is because it can do it all inside this container of a disk image. And you can only do the verification on the network backups. And what that verification is, is a file system check of the contents, or not the contents, but of the structure of that disk. Now, here's where this gets a little sideways, John, because you mentioned that Steve discussed the TMUtil compare option. And that's an interesting one because that goes a lot further than the verification. As you said, it compares checksums, but it can also compare other metadata, like file size, modification time, and things like that. But that too only works on networked backups near as I can tell. I want to come back to this topic. We can keep talking about it a little bit here, but we will circle back to this after we, John, and or I, have tested this with a local Time Machine backup. Neither one of us keeps local Time Machine backups, so we don't have one to test, but I will make one and test this because I want to see if Apple has added any of this TMUtil compare functionality to the verify backups option because it's possible they have. It's not straightforward to find out. I want to see if TMUtil compare will run on a local drive. You know what I mean? I don't think it does, but that's the question. I wish Apple was much clearer about this, but they're not. Their knowledge-based articles are very, very nebulous about it. Yeah, I guess the place to look. So I think the takeaway from this is that what you get from the Time Machine menu is pretty much just verifying the structure is valid. It's not corrupt. And then if you go to the command line and you run TMUtil with certain options, you can get a better feel that the contents are somewhat consistent or consistent with something. You can do additional there, but it's not going to happen from the menu. So I guess that's what you can take from this. But see, that's the thing. We know in the past that was true, that the verify in the menu was only doing this structure verification. But the weird part is this. TMUtil compare from the terminal also only works on network drives. So why is that? Is it because it's not storing any of this checksum information when it does a local backup? And so it's not there. And sort of the follow-up question is, well, if TMUtil compare only works on network drives, it's certainly possible that Apple has added some of this TMUtil compare functionality to that verify backups thing and just isn't clear about it. So it's possible that verify backups does more. We're just not sure. And of course, they hide it. You won't see Time Machine backups in the console anymore in Sierra. You have to use something like Constellation or whatever to filter them out and find them. So it's crazy. We'll also ask Apple to see if they want to comment on this too, because it would be good to get that clarity. So it's crazy, man. Crazy, crazy. Thanks, Steve, for digging back into this with us. It's good to... It's good. Anyway. Any thoughts, John? Any other thoughts on this one? My thought is, I always make more than one backup. Well, yeah. Don't just do a Time Machine backup. Right. Don't just do a single Time Machine backup. Right. Alternating one is better. And using a different program is even better. Like Carbon Copy Cloner. Right. The nice thing about both of those, Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner, is that the results of those backups are readable by any Mac. You don't need special software to read them, which is good. Okay. All right, let's see. Let's move on. Let's see how we do. I'm curious if we'll have time to get to some NAS stuff. We might. Jeremy asks. Jeremy asks, I'm hoping you can help out. I have two Office 365 accounts, one each for two separate businesses with which I'm involved. Let's be outrageously imaginative and call them Company A and Company B. In my email clients, I mainly use Apple Mail, but on occasion also Outlook and or Airmail. I have a number of project folders which are under Company A and the side panel. I have those folders currently in A to B. The move command when selecting the folder and right clicking icons does not list Company B as a destination, although it does list existing folders already created in Company B. My question is therefore, number one, how can I move folders and all the emails they're in from Company A to Company B? I have tried dragging from one account to the other and this appears to create a duplicate, although it happened far too quickly because I believe all the emails have actually been duplicated. Some of them have thousands of emails. Also in one folder I dragged some old emails appeared with today's date, but only some. If I do this, will they no longer exist in my Company A account? So if I were to cancel my Company A account with the moved emails still exist in Company B and where do the emails actually live? Are they just on the servers or are they starred locally on my Mac? Again, I will go backwards if the email is involved and you have it set up by default, your emails will live in both places. This is true with Office 365 accounts and IMAP accounts and things like that. It is a client-server relationship and the Mac keeps a local cash, if you will, but it's a local copy of all of those messages. But if you go into the server and delete one and then let your Mac sync with the server, it will delete it from your Mac too. So just bear that in mind. But yes, the Mac by default will store copies of the messages locally. You can change that if you want. And that's not a bad thing to change, especially if you are someone who travels a lot and you don't want to be downloading every single message from all of your archives into your laptop or something. You can go into mail preferences accounts, go into mailbox behavior. Where is that? Oh yeah, download attachments and account information is where you can say look, don't download any here and that sort of thing. You used to be able to control a lot more of this, but Apple takes it away. So that's question number one or actually question number three. But in talking about how to move these messages, the way that I would do it is to move the email messages at the message level, not the folder level. So with by that I mean if you have a folder called you know, business meetings on company A and you want to move that to company B go to company B, create a folder called business meetings and then drag or you know, copy and paste but copy and paste gets a little weird but dragging all of the messages. Go into the company A, business meetings folder select all drag those to the business meetings folder of company B it may appear that this happens right away but because it could happen right away locally on your Mac, but it won't happen right away on the server again, like I said mail creates this client-server relationship and you can go to the window activity window so you just go up to the window menu and choose activity and in the activity window you will see any of those server operations happening and you might see one that says it's moving you know, 1100 messages or something and it won't let you know when it's done but it will disappear from the activity window when it's finished. So that's the that's the way I would do this. Thoughts on that, John? I'm with you that message level is preferred because I've had problems in the past trying to do it at a higher level doesn't always get it right. It doesn't get it right. That's right. Yeah, message level is better and you know, remember because your Mac stores a local copy of this stuff I always recommend shoot a backup of your Mac or at least your mail folder home library mail before you start mucking about with all of this stuff that matters greatly to you but you know that's just me. Make sense? Good? Sometimes. Sometimes. You know, Graham shared a very interesting thing. It's sort of related to this moving mail thing not exactly Office 365. He says back in episode 665 a listener was asking about getting mails from an old IMAP hosting account over to a new one. If it wasn't mentioned in that episode but I'm not sure if it has been highlighted since that Google offers a data migration service for just this situation and he's totally right. He's got a link for us that we'll put in the show notes by supplying Google a.k.a. G Suite with all the relevant credentials for the old server and accounts. You can ask it to just pull a copy of the information across server to server for large accounts and domains with multiple accounts. This is a very efficient way to have the import run in the background possibly for several days. The G Suite administration console allows you to check back on the progress of each account import and will provide a log file of any messages that couldn't be imported. The one gotcha I encountered out of several domain migrations I've done is that the old mail server must be able to provide a secure IMAP connection with a certificate that actually matches the connection credentials. If the old hosting is on a shared hosting server, this may mean having to enter the real server name as shown on its certificate rather than the domain name of one of the mail accounts. But he says I've used it several times and it has worked splendidly. So thank you so much for that, Graham. That's pretty darn cool. I like it. That's pretty good, right, John? That's Google doing things to help us. Yeah, clean up the mess they made. Yeah. I don't know about that, but I don't know that this cleans up the mess they made, but it certainly makes life easy. Yeah, good. Moving on to Steve. Steve's got a tip. Steve writes somewhere here. He says your listener that wanted to connect a 5K display on his Mac should look at this new device from Sonnet, and it is the Sonnet Thunderbolt 3 dual display port adapter. And again not again, but as the name implies, this is only for Thunderbolt 3 Macs, but what you get is you can connect either two 4K displays from a single Thunderbolt 3 port on a Mac or by using both of the display ports together that's how you can connect to a 5K display from your single Thunderbolt 3 port on your Mac or on a Windows machine. That's pretty cool and I think it's relatively cheap and I should say inexpensive because yeah, 79 bucks. So and it's, you know it's a pretty straightforward little thing. So thank you so much Steve. That's great. I like that. The answer is that question makes me think maybe I could get another 5K monitor, but I need to get a Thunderbolt 3 iMac first and I don't have one of those yet. Maybe you'll get me one for my birthday, John. Maybe. Hell, the surprise awaits. I'm waiting with baited breath. Yeah, good. You want to tell us about your, you had you had some hard, actually we both had some hard drive issues. You know, I will I will tell you about mine briefly because it's very brief. I mentioned in the last show, John that I was having a problem where this machine was slow when I was running my itunes. Well it turns out the internal drive in this Mac has gone bad. So this is a pre fusion drive 2011 iMac that has one terabyte sata drive and I think it's a 256 gig SSD, but it's not a fusion drive. It was not built to be it was kind of, you know, came out a little bit before the fusion drive concept was rolled out. And I tested it with drive genius. I tested it with drive genius 4 then I upgraded and I tested it with drive genius 5 and they both say the same thing that that drives dead or has lots and lots of bad spots on it. So now I'm not sure if I'm going to take this machine apart. I've moved all that data to an external drive, but if I were to take this apart I would not replace the internal spindle drive because why would I want to put another drive in there that someday I'm going to have to replace? It's an iMac so it's not like it moves around all the time. So I'm not sure if I'm ever going to take that bad drive out but that's why things were slow. Any thoughts on that before you tell us what you went through with the bad drive? Because what you went through might be related to, you know might help me, might add some color to this. I'll tell you what I ran into but I solved it so sometimes your computer lies to you or the software lies to you or it's just misinterpreting what's happening. So I do a karmic copy clone or backup on my Mac mini and I schedule it to run every morning. I also run drive genius including their component called drive pulse and it runs in the background, certain tests and integrity check and also a physical check. It'll scan the drive and make sure that it can read things and all of a sudden it started over the last couple of months it really started getting cranky and it was saying there's a physical error on your drive it's a two and a half inch one of the smaller drives because I have a whole pile of those and and it's inside a OWC enclosure, USB3 enclosure one of their inexpensive ones that I got a while ago and it kept saying there was a problem with the drive and I was like okay well I guess that drive's dead put in another drive I have four or five of these drives from various computers and other devices and it kept reporting saying physical error physical error, physical error and I'm like you know what it seems highly unlikely that every drive that I put in here has a physical error so after like the third drive that I put in there kept reporting that and I'm like hmm you know what why don't we replace part of the problem here part of the problem as it turns out was the enclosure I put the drive in a USB2 enclosure that I had and the errors went away no more errors haha all right so I don't know and the warranty on this particular model of case I mean it's inexpensive sure but it was a year so it was out of warranty and I don't know if I blew it up or component failed or something it could be the cable it could be the enclosure it's one of the two that things happen right had a problem so huh so what I did do also but I wanted to but the thing is I wanted to get another USB3 enclosure and I did find a dandy one Dave on Amazon so I had some Amazon bucks so I'm like you know let me look on Amazon although I love OWC as well I looked on Amazon and I found and it looked pretty slick and it got like a high rating like number one best seller or something like that it's a Sobrent two and a half inch SATA to USB3 tool free external hard drive enclosure for the amazing low price of $9.99 sounds about right yeah yeah and it also has a different the cable is different so the OWC one had it comes with a cable for $9.99 yeah okay that's pretty impressive but here's the weird thing but the cable so the OWC cable was the A I think you know square and the other end of it was some wacky flat thing that really have only seen on the OWC case this one has a USB A to USB A with the additional lines to support USB3 and it's also a tool free basically just slide the top off slip your drive in there and then you know it's got little tabs and stuff like that whereas the other one actually screws so I think I know what you're talking about John I'm going to send you a link here by way of our chat room because I want you to look at this but I think the cable you're describing is USB A to USB micro B cable which is sort of that flat thing is regularly used for USB3 external hard drive enclosures and I think that's what you're talking about with the OWC enclosure that you mentioned is that right? Okay so yeah that's micro B that's pretty standard and it's nice because it is much thinner than a USB A cable so enclosure manufacturers can sort of build things to be a little more compact and efficient if you're using USB B micro B because it's not only flatter but it's also much shallower so there you go that's why that exists so here's um what strikes me is that and you know they even say this if you run the extended physical test in Drive Genius so the drive pulse doesn't really but if you run it from the program itself they'll actually say well you know what we're really saying is that if we say there's an error it could be the drive but it also could be the cable or the connection right I suppose that's true with what I've got going on here too yeah I mean it seems kind of weird to me because I would think that you know if they say there's a physical error that it's the drive reporting hey you know this sector is bad but I guess a bad connection can make this happen as well which in this case you know whether it was the circuit board or the cable or something I guess a bad connection can to certain software look like a physical error sure yeah yeah of course yeah alright so you know you brought up something interesting because I mentioned that I confirmed that that my drive was bad with Drive Genius and of course drive pulse that you mentioned told you about your bad drive is part of Drive Genius and Drive Pulse in theory would have and should have told me about this drive that was failing so I didn't have to suss it all out on my own but it didn't and the reason it didn't is because I had turned it off and I had turned it off because one of the things that Drive Pulse does is it tells me if I'm running low on free space the problem with that is it has a calculation that if you are using more than 90% of your drive or set another way if you have more less than 10% of your disk's entire capacity free then it's going to alert you every hour on the hour maybe not on the hour but it's just about every hour that those alerts come up and for rotational drives I couldn't agree more I've always maintained that that 10% number on a rotational drive is great because you need that sort of buffer to keep from getting fragmentation happening and all of those things but on an SSD man I don't think that same metric applies I think it's a not a percentage it's a hard limit and for me I like to make sure I have you know 5 gigs or more free on an SSD of any size it doesn't matter how big it is and really the only reason I say 5 gigs is just to have some buffer room in case you start downloading some big file or something you want to make sure you have enough room to fit that now obviously having more than 5 gigs free is good but there's no there's no other reason with an SSD that I can think of to have that so I like I said I've got a 256 gig SSD in this machine it usually has about 40 gigs free but if I haven't moved everything and all the podcast archives over now I run Hazel because Alison Sheridan told me to and Hazel deals with archiving off things more than two weeks old over to my my disk station but before I did that I would constantly run somewhere between you know 10 and 20 gigs free and it was totally fine but Drive Pulse would yell at me all the time and I just had to turn it off and because of that I didn't get these warnings about the fiscal errors so I've asked the ProSoft folks if they would you know maybe deal with SSDs differently but I haven't heard back so there you go do you have any thoughts on that am I crazy for thinking that it's okay to run with less than 10% of an SSD free I've never gotten to that point there you go I get two SSDs and they're both terabytes and I think any Drive if you want to have let but okay so even with a terabyte SSD would you want it to start warning you if you have less than 100 gigs free that seems crazy to me right I mean you can get down to 30 gigs free and still be totally fine right I mean am I missing something yeah okay that's my thoughts on that you want to take us to the first David John yeah this is an interesting one okay I also involve some lies as far as I know let me see so here's what he says so I just updated to a Deco system and changed my Wi-Fi network forgetting that I needed to change the Wi-Fi on my second generation Apple TV that I lost my original remote now I can access the Apple TV from my iPhone remote app I tried this approach when I plugged the Apple TV into my MacBook Pro all it did was blink and I did not see the Apple TV in iTunes any thoughts then we got an update I decided I was being too clever so I purchased the new Apple TV remote but I still cannot navigate the Apple TV menu the unit boots up and it looks like a normal interface when I use the remote the indicator blinks as if it's recognizing the remote but nothing happens well here's what's happening here's what you got to do well you got to go to the Apple TV menu that pairs to the remote oh wait you can't because it's not paired oh chickens meat egg exactly so this is the problem here so since you're seeing the light flash on the remote on the Apple TV it knows that there's some somebody out there right but it's not paired so the thing is there is there's a little ditty that Apple publishes here and the title of the article is link or unlink your Apple remote aluminum or white from your Apple TV now here's where they lie though at least that's what David told me so they say what you got to do is hold it is you want to hold down the menu and the right button for five seconds and that's what the article says he followed up with me and said well I actually had to hold down the menu and the left button and that paired it so once that happened I guess he's in good shape it can now control his Apple TV again yeah that makes sense people in the chat room have another suggestion John and that is if you've got an iPhone use the remote app on your iPhone or as PJ says so as Brian and Rose suggested the iPhone app first and as did PJ and then PJ said or even your Apple watch because you can navigate all of the things you need to on your Apple TV with your the remote app on your iPhone and that pairs that pairs in a different way so it shows you a number on the screen and you type it in and you're good to go so yeah there you go yes yes good stuff you want to take us to the second David I don't even know I don't think these are the same we have lots of David's in the show and not just the one that says greetings at the beginning but yeah so David asked a good question here gentlemen I started listening to previous podcasts and found one on routers I recently upgraded to the Synology 2600ac and it's working okay but the wireless in my house in certain spots on the second floor are a bit spotty I'm looking into Iroh but one thing I don't get what I have to replace my 2600ac I use it as my outer boundary to the internet via my cable so he uses it as his router right yeah okay or could I just turn off the 2600ac wireless and use the Iroh just for the wireless and not for the other features that being the case is Iroh overkill since I would be using only the wireless mesh and Ethernet backhaul and might a different solution be better does the mesh might a different solution be better look for your input I'll give you some input the thing is I in my humble opinion and you have an opinion on this too Dave I do I don't see your follow up here but one thing that I would try I I think Iroh may be overkill for this well I I don't disagree with that actually I mean it certainly do it and I have listeners doing it and it's blissful right because you get the routing capabilities and like cloud station and all of the great stuff that you already have in the RT 2600ac and then you get the meshing capabilities of Iroh and that's pretty awesome not an inexpensive solution and you're like David says you're literally disabling the fairly awesome Wi-Fi radios they're both 4x4 radios inside that RT 2600ac so that's kind of sad but you know if money's no object sure if money's an object as it is for most of us John you have a solution and so one what he proposes is certainly possible I actually did this with my archer in that at one point when I wasn't quite sure how to get it to sign IP addresses the way I wanted it to I actually took my Archer C9 turned off the Wi-Fi still used it as my router and then put the Iroh in bridge mode and that's certainly doable but I'm going to propose because I've tried this as well I'm going to propose because it sounds like you only have one spot that's spotty TP-Link has a dandy line of network rage extenders and when you look at the features on some of these so I tried one of their lower end ones the AC 1200 Wi-Fi range extender RE350K and it does as advertised it'll extend the range though I did look at some higher end units Dave where they're using all the right words very Iroh like so it does MIMO and beam forming and all this wonderful stuff and is less expensive than an Iroh I think they're in the order of you know 100 something dollars or less so maybe try one of those maybe get it from a place that lets you return it if it doesn't work out for you so you can entertain that as a possible way to help that dead spot there so here's the thing and to be fair it's been a little while maybe 6 or 8 months since I've tried the TP-Link range extenders in fact it's been a while since I've tried any range extenders because I've really been focused a lot on this mesh thing lately as you might have noticed but my big issue with there's two issues I have with range extenders one is that you have to manage them from a separate interface right it's not like true mesh where you get one interface to manage all of the access points and they all talk with each other in this scenario short of doing what we said turning off the radios and buying an Iroh or some other mesh system you're not going to get that so okay fine the other problem in this is managing it is not really a big deal you're not going to be in there every day managing it I mean for the first couple of days you might but then it just you know it does its job where the second issue with range extenders comes in for me is network names by default range extenders tend to have their own SSID so you would have you know John's network or David's network and then you would as your say Synology router name and then you would have David's network extension given to you by the range extender and so now you've got a I remember that with the TP link I actually had to by default give it a unique name which to me is bad practice as I think you're saying well yeah but I mean I grok why they do it because otherwise then you don't know what you're connecting to and it's hard to troubleshoot and all of that stuff but it's more of a headache to have to manage moving from you know one network to the other especially the way that iOS and Max handle it where they will hold on to even a weak network signal if it's the top one in your list most of the time there's some scenarios where that won't happen but so because of that I don't like naming it the same name and as you indicated you can go into the TP link settings and give it the same name and then that makes life a lot better however for 108 bucks at Amazon you can start to build what I call a not quite quasi mesh and that's with the Ubiquiti Amplify HD mesh points so there are 108 bucks a piece on Amazon and what they do is these are the same mesh points that will plug in or that come with the Ubiquiti Amplify HD full-on mesh system it's exactly the same mesh points and these are kind of like I described at Eurobeacon earlier in fact they were the first ones on the market with this for mesh they just plug directly into the wall they don't have ethernet ports on them or anything but they do have 3x3 radios in them which is sort of unique in the mesh world and it's two radios a 5 GHz and a 2.4 the really cool part is they do their best to meshify your existing setup so they inherit the wireless SSID they extend your network in that way obviously they can't do true mesh with your router because your router doesn't really know about them but if you then add a second one they will start doing mesh amongst each other including multi-hop stuff so if it needs to do it that way it starts to get really intelligent because it's already got all those smarts in it from being part of the Ubiquiti Amplify product line so if you are for what you describe here David I think the Amplify HD mesh point is far and away the best option for you because it lets you continue to use the stellar radios that you have in your Synology router obviously it lets you continue using the routing of your Synology router and then you start to meshify things and get this extension in a smarter way than range extenders let you do it so that's my you know that's my thoughts on this it's fun stuff I think we covered all the bases I think we did most of them here let's have JP ask his questions so that we can answer it for him calling with an Eero question I would love nothing more than to start dumping the Apple airports now that they are no longer supported and in fact I found that my extreme base station was fouling up my network and once I took it out of the system everything is working flawlessly and I was blaming my ISP but in fact it was the culprit was the airport extreme which just stuns me because it was brand new anyway I have cat 6 in my house I wire it to every room and then I plug in a airport express and extend the network hard wire wise can I do that with the Eero nodes I know not the repeaters but the originals the disk size I believe they have ethernet ports can I set it up the same way as I did before or do eros only work wirelessly to each other what do I do about the lack of USB printing on the Eero let me know yeah of course you are cut off yeah so what you are asking the answer is yes you can do this with the Eero what you are asking is does the Eero support ethernet backhaul backhaul being the communication between all of the mesh points amongst themselves and of course when we talk about mesh the first thing we are talking about is wireless backhaul meaning it is happening over the air just like we discussed with the Amplify HD points that is doing the backhaul wirelessly and intelligently over multiple bands if necessary and then Eero would of course do the same thing wirelessly that is basically what we are being sold with mesh stuff but ethernet backhaul is going to be way more efficient in 99% of the scenarios if you have it in your walls and you do so Eero will support that I will say this not all of the mesh products out there support it Orbi is the first one that comes to mind that does not support ethernet backhaul and this is actually why I wrote a couple of weeks ago I wrote an article called how to choose your mesh network and I talked through each of these things so that for those of you that have ethernet in your walls you want to consider that before you buy a mesh so that you are getting the right one to maximize what you have so I will put a link to that in the show notes but the short answer is yeah Eero will do it here is the bad answer Eero's ethernet supports do not connect a printer or anything those are ports for diagnostic purposes only and really non-functional for you the good news is though you have an airport that you could do this with if you turn off its wireless radios and put it into bridge mode it could still be a print server for you pretty much anywhere you want so that maybe that's the maybe that's the answer thoughts John no yes Brian Monroe is correcting me he's saying usb ports you mean not ethernet ports and it's possible I misspoke so the ethernet ports on the Eero's are fully functional and can be used for wireless backhaul the usb port on the Eero is not functional for you you can't plug a drive or a printer into it so if I screwed that up my apologies and also thank you to Brian and Roho for catching it so that I didn't leave you all hanging for a week yeah alright we've got time you know what let's stick with the networking stuff here we'll jump to listen to Mike who asks I'm having problems with my video data phone service I'm hoping you can suggest a solution for years my house was wired the cable came into the house in the basement it was split there one path went right up to TV1 the second path went to the opposite end of the house to the attic off a second splitter and then another path went to TV2 and he says there was a phone jack and two printers wired off of this second path lately he says my data and phone services dropping out the TV signal was never impacted I could usually recover data and phone by waiting several minutes or at worst resetting the modem with a paperclip sometimes this would happen as often as 5 times an hour the current explanation from my provider is that the signal to the modem is too weak and out of spec they suggested moving the cable modem to a shorter run as a temporary test I moved the cable modem down off of less splitters and it seems to work we haven't lost data or phone yet the shorter cable run to the modem might be the solution however not having the phone base station because now the phone base station comes off the modem not having that where we liked it is a major inconvenience not to mention that now my printers and such on the second floor are offline so yeah certainly a weak signal will affect your cable modem differently than it will affect your TVs I've seen that too because it really needs your cable modem needs a signal in both directions to be very rock solid and your TV while it will use a bi-directional signal or some of them will it's not the needs are different it's a different setup so getting a new modem might have solved this because it's possible modems you know they heat up and I have seen them sort of get weaker over time especially with that ability to send data back over less than ideal cables here's the thing now that you've got the modem downstairs and you don't have ethernet anymore up in the office where it used to be on the longer run I think mocha is going to be your friend you have existing coax going to the office and mocha will let you effectively send an ethernet signal over your coax it can live right alongside your TV signals and your cable data modem signals it's totally separate it uses a different channel range so it just doesn't get in the way it's a beautiful thing so I think that might solve it and then that lets you kind of put your cable modem where you might want it and hopefully get your phone service back and working too thoughts about that John I thought you were going to send me some mocha stuff I don't have it I haven't tried it yet I thought you did I'll put you in touch with the mocha folks yeah that'd be good because I do have yeah I have other connectors in this room and downstairs and all that oh yeah so you could effectively do wired ethernet backhaul with your network over mocha which is what I'm doing actually in the house yeah well I have to cause I also got a bunch of splitters around so that may ruin everything like mocha runs really well with very badly wired homes and mine is a great example and testament to that so yeah I mean but it might be worth getting you know some better splitters it's also definitely worth and I'll put a link to my favorite mocha there's really only one vendor to use and that's ActionTech so I'll put a link to that in the show notes but I'll also put a link to a point of entry filter so these mocha adapters I should look them up very quickly just to get a current price these mocha adapters it's $150 for the pair this is bonded mocha too so it's going to run many channels and like I said I've got crappy wiring in my house I get about 800 megabits a second with but I was getting like 700 maybe even just shy of that until I plugged in a point of entry filter which is like 6 bucks and you put it literally at the point where coax enters your house and it filters some of that stuff out and makes your in-house lines way cleaner and that frees up mocha and everything's happy so there you go that's uh that's how it goes, you know whatever but you know the uh the time has come my friend to talk of many things but I'm not going to sing Alice in Wonderland to you right? I'm going to sing something to you I'm not going to sing it I'm just going to spell it out Dave feedback at mechicab.com did you say feedback at mechicab.com you heard me right my friend you want to write to us you want to send an email to feedback at mechicab.com sweet you can also find us on twitter visit twitter.com slash mechicab for the show visit twitter.com slash John F. Braun for him twitter.com slash Dave Hamilton for me twitter.com slash Mack Observer for Mack Observer of course twitter.com slash Pilot Pete for Pilot Pete I do want to thank this week's premium mechicab supporters those of you that support us with premium can email us at premium at mechicab.com then this week's bi-annual every six month renewals were Louis Michel Joshua Oh Margaret M. Paulo B. Laurent L. Daniel P. Tyler V. thank you so much to all of you and then our monthly ten dollar renewals that came in this week were James B. David G. John G. James C. Paul M. Joe S. Sebastian K. Mark R. and JC thank you to all of you it really means a lot to us to have you I want to thank Cashfly John C-A-C-H-E-F-L-Y dot com for providing all the bandwidth to get the show from us to you anybody you want to thank John I'm always doing all the thinking here but you know you're here too not at the moment not at the moment alright say thanks to all our listeners thank you for listening there it is it's that simple yeah really and it does like being a listener makes a huge difference for us not only do you just you know get the value that we were able to share with this show but you can contribute to that value by sharing tips or and really asking questions is is a huge contribution to the show so it all really really helps out of course I want to thank our sponsors in this episode Eero E-E-R-O dot com where coupon code M-G-G saves you on free overnight shipping barebones software at barebones.com the makers of BB at it smile at smilesoftware.com slash geek and other world computing at max sales.com John it'll be a week before we do this again have a good week have a splendid time with whatever it is you're doing and I mean this for all of you out there too but please follow these three easy words don't get caught see you next time