 But today we're going to start with H244 and that is a bill authorizing the natural organic reduction of human remains. And for those of you who are new, probably even by a couple of terms here, part of our portfolio is housing for the dead. And that includes cemeteries. Alternative cemeteries was something that we did two years ago or four years ago or six years ago. We did, I believe, representative Howard and walls you were here for alternative cemeteries and natural burials. And this is a different take on that in the past we have also not necessarily this committee but the state has approved alkaline hydrolysis, which is something I learned about 12 years ago in this committee, which is basically a different form of, of disposing of remains instead of instead of flames for cremation. It's using a live, which is very familiar to farmers, disposing of large animals. But this is something completely different. And representative partridge is here to introduce this bill to us we will also hear today from h290 which is an act relating to ski area operators and skiing accident reports and there's a reason why we have that bill. And then an act relating to modernizing our wage and hour laws which represent of Calachi will introduce and Damien will take us through and then I'm introducing each 85, which is an act related to requiring employment breaks so with that representative partridge welcome. Welcome back. Thank you Mr chair and thank you so much committee for being willing to hear my testimony my introductory testimony on age 244. Representative Lipper and I actually introduced this bill last biennium, and we're introducing it again with others and we're hoping that perhaps, obviously not this year but perhaps next year you will be able to take it up. And I guess I should explain to start with that I am a farmer, I raise sheep and goats and chickens. And, you know, there is a practice that is done in agriculture where you can compose compost animal remains. And I've always been impressed with how incredibly efficient. And this is in terms of reducing animals to really beautiful soil. And as the chair of agriculture and forestry I'm also really taken with organic matter and introducing it into the into the soil and what a positive result that has in in terms of water retention of drought resistance, etc, etc. So this is sort of just a kind of a sideline to that this is actually, you may all be appalled but I once told my husband that if he could manage it and he could just if I pre disease him if he could just put me in the manure pile and let me decompose I would be very happy with that because I'm not I'm not interested in being involved and buried. I'm not particularly interested, though I do raise sheep I'm not interested in being buried in a wall casket which they make, and I could probably make myself. And I'm not interested in being melted in a lie bath. And I guess my choice has always been cremation been the possibilities that exist now. But we're also realizing it by the way I did send to your committee assistant to articles that I understand or posted on your web page and I, I would encourage you to look at them. And in one, it gives this detail that in 2015 cremations outpaced burials for the first in the United States history. And I can understand why that is takes up less land. It's for me it's a little more palatable than, you know, moldering in the ground. But it also it in 2016, it was determined that cremation releases 600 million pounds of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere every year. And so there are, there are three businesses now in Washington State, it became legal last year. It was, it was passed in 2019 to allow natural organic reduction, and these companies have have sprung up. And they are two of them, I think are her woodwood and and recompose and what H244 would allow to happen in the state of Vermont is just to allow this practice to occur. And, you know, I think I think it's a good alternative. I encourage you to look at the articles. The one from woodwood is gives you kind of a they show you although they have pictures but they don't use a dead body, they just show you how the process happens. And the fact that you end up with 455 gallon drums of usable compost at the end of the of the process and this this compost can be used on your garden or you can donate some of it to her land forest. And they use it to grow new trees in the cemetery. So I am happy to try and answer any questions you might have. I think the idea is a good one. And by the way, I understand it's not for everybody, not everybody wants to have this happen. I think it offers us another opportunity to have a process at the end of our lives has less impact on the carbon footprint and potentially actually nourishes the earth. So, with that, happy to try and answer any questions. So are this proposal is based on the Washington law, or is it just our interpretation of that that it's based on the Washington model. And, Mr chair, it, it is 50 pages long I haven't, you're like, I think that there are a lot of, there are a lot of things that have been included in here that just sort of update the statute. In terms of terminology and what have you but it also expands and allows the, the use of natural organic reduction. That's, no, that's fine. When I saw that it was a 50 page bill I'm assuming that there was some cleanup in there it's been exactly cemetery cemetery statute is much like it's as dusty as some of our other ones. I don't even have a good fun for it right now. Darn. No, I just have an ongoing bit about what happens in mouse aliems but that's different than than this. No, don't want to know. So the. Well we have several questions here I'll just, I'll just go to committee here representative Murphy then triano. Thank you chair Stevens, and welcome representative partridge. I am just thinking I have not read through and so I don't know the details but when I was on our development review board, we permitted. And I may not be using the correct word but harrowing of large animal carcasses horses, etc, and they would build great burrows of dirt up over. Time evolution thing where in the end you have compost. And so I'm kind of connecting it to that. I realize a human body is not to be equated with that of a large animal other than in the sense of this natural decomposition so no offense intended to folks but it just seems like a natural process of reusing the bits of us we don't need anymore. Thank you. Thanks representative Murphy and I really appreciate that that's that's basically how I feel about it. And it would, it would this bill would not allow my husband to take me out and bury me in the manure pile as I would really like to have happened, but facilities could be developed. They basically have a what's called it's a cradle you can look at these articles are pretty, pretty explicit about how it works. And they, they surround the body with, I think it's 200 pounds of wood chips, and they do a rocking motion over time, and I've actually talked to folks at the agency of agriculture food and markets because I said when wouldn't the bones be left if you keep it at just the right temperature even the bones are reduced. So, so it's really quite a complete process in terms of reducing our bodies to lovely compost. What do you find did, has it been too soon to find out that the difference between let's just say I have, let's say I died of cancer, and I fought the cancer for years I'd have lots of chemo in my bodies right you know the breakdown of something like that has that proven to be. Could that be a problem I don't know if anyone who you know again everybody makes personal choices but you know if the if the if there's chemicals in the body like that I think has always been a concern in normal barrels. Would that be an issue here that that is mentioned that is actually mentioned in one of these articles and I'm not finding it quickly, but it is something that they are looking at. So in the, the Herland, is it Herland would article they talk about the fact that there are fillings that. Let's see. Oh, maybe I can find it hold on just a second. Humans tend to have a lot of unnatural materials in their bodies, though like dental filling screws and pacemakers that all has to be filtered out after the bulk of the decomposition is done. They. Oh, okay so they also crumble up the bones to release the phosphorus after that. Patrick says they'll have 455 gallon drums of usual usable post the family can take all of it, or donate a portion to Herland forest, where it will be used to help grow new trees in the cemetery. I think it's the other I think it's the, the article regarding the focus is on recompose that addresses some of the. Cancer issues and and the, the substances that might be in bodies that are, you know, of people who have potentially died of cancer and other other ailments. represent Trana. Thank you chair Stevens. I'm seeing some real business opportunities here. No, just kidding. I'm with you. Okay. So do we have a notion as to the timeframe that this that we're looking at it something like this, Carolyn. Well, you know chip, it passed in Washington in 2019. And last year, it went into effect. And it's now early 2021 that these places are up and running I don't know exactly what the timeframe was but I think once it got asked some of these companies actually got going on on setting up their businesses. So you have a rough idea of what the, the timeframe might be. Representative Blumley. Yes. Hello chair partridge thanks for coming to our committee. I am, I'm wondering, so, where, where do people, you know, I mean, what's the range of objections to this, you know, when people oppose this what's besides. I mean, I don't even know that funeral directors would oppose it but I, I'm just wondering, you know, what are the concerns that have that have been raised in the past about this. I haven't really heard. Thanks for the question. I haven't really heard any objections, other than what is referred to in one of these articles is yuck factor. You know, clearly this is not for everyone. It's, it's something it's a matter of choice. Not only not everyone feels the way I do about this. There might be, there might be some concern on the part of funeral directors who would rather see people come to their facility and be embalmed and be, you know, it buried in a very expensive casket, etc etc. So, from a finding I haven't heard that, but I can I'm just sort of trying to think it out and envision it and I would say that that might be one of the objections that would happen but the fact that, you know, all burial also has its share of expense and and carbon footprint what have you, I think, when you think about caskets and what have you. I think that this is just an alternative. No one's saying you have to do this. You have the choice. I just want to have the choice. Thanks very much. Sure. Percent of plastic. You're muted. Thank you. I tried to hit the space bar to make it quicker when I did I was sort of looking at here. Anyway, the organic waste reduction facility. And I had kept that page open so I didn't mess that up. I think that's what it's called. So representative Bartridge. How many approximate how many of these facilities would be located in Vermont that for none of words how many do you think Vermont would need. I, you know, I have no idea how many would be needed. And I don't know what the population of Washington state is they have three at this point. And I'm going to guess that their population is significantly more than ours. It might be the same level as the number of crematories that exists. I think it would be all that the market would bear. And I think that, you know, because we have neighbors all around us. It might, you know, somebody who wanted to do this if it wasn't legal in the states of New York, Massachusetts and New Hampshire people might want shoes to come here. You know, it might be a, and as, as Chip said, it might be a great business opportunity. Okay, and, and I haven't had a chance to read that 50 page bill yet I got the first five or six pages and I didn't really get the answer to my next question, which which would be related to what you had said earlier I think you said a 55 gallon drum might get four, four drums of compost from a situation like this. So, again, not having read the red bill but I'm going to, I'm going to believe that if I died, and I decided that prior to death of course that I wanted to go to one of these organic waste reduction facilities and have my remains be turned into compost. And how long that would take I don't know what it's really not that important right now. When that's over. I believe then my remains would be packaged somehow and could be transported to in my in my wife is not in here in range right now so I can say this back home to my wife so that if she wanted to put my organic remains somewhere a garden, flower garden, vegetable garden, whatever she has both and they're very nice. She could do that it's Is that correct it'd be the same thing to me as a crematory crematory you would get an urn of ashes but here you're going to get barrels or bushels are living on a call it of organic remains. And then it would go back to the perhaps the next to can or whatever, or something in the will or something for that person to do what they felt they cared to do with the remains is that correct. Yes. And I think that I would envision this to work similarly to what happens in Washington State. And I think I just read you from one of the pieces that you can accept all of the, all of the compost, or you can choose to donate it to. In this case, I think it was her land would to her land forest to use to cultivate new trees and in their cemetery so there are, you know, you don't have to take all 455 gallon drums if you don't want them. You know that would be, I think that that would be my, you know what I would like to see happen. That's very interesting. Thank you. Representative collecting. Thank you. You're muted. Thank you. Okay. So, currently, if you pass before your husband, he could not bury you on your own land. Well, that, that's an interesting thing and I think probably Mr chair knows more about this than I do but I believe that you can be buried on your own land but it depends on the town you live in. In my hometown of Wyndham. We can be buried on our own land. It involves. Well, I suppose, I think at this point, there are rules of having a fence around the area where you're buried. I know my brother in law, unfortunately died a year or so ago and he is buried on my, my niece's land. They had to put a fence around it there are certain guidelines that are involved with that. I honestly want that to happen. I would just like to be broken down and and thrown on my garden and that is not a possibility at this point. Because I'm used to the horse farm I'm at, you know, for the last 11 years we've had to lead some of the horses out the pasture and bury them. And, you know, to me that's the organic process. Eventually those bodies do break down. And so wouldn't your body in fact, organically break down in your field. But I'm not really. I mean, yes, it would. But there are certain guidelines around doing that kind of a burial that I would prefer not to have to have I don't want to, I don't want to set aside a plot. You know, at the end of my garden where it has to be all fenced in and stuff. Perfect. I understand the difference. Okay, thank you. And I'm sorry I don't know all the guidelines around that, that green burial restriction but, but that's my position on it. Okay, thanks. Sure. And not all towns allow I don't believe for this kind of burial either so. Great. Okay. I don't think I can bury or be buried in our backyard, but then we're adjacent to a cemetery so that would be, you know, that wouldn't apply for anything except for the for the for the punchline but the idea is in more rural areas in each town might have separate registration needs. You have to let people know where people are buried. And so it's just allowing for the process to happen. Representative Hango. Thank you. Someone asked earlier and I missed who it was what the objections to this might be. I do want to bring up that there are religious objections to this the Catholic church has spoken out and get against it. Just as they don't, they used to not wish folks to be members to be cremated, although that's now allowed. However, the spreading of ashes is not allowed. So there are, you know, certainly religious objections in the United States and worldwide to this process. So I'm going to get a little bit disconcerting to keep talking about the disposal of large animals and humans in the same subject since I've had to bury a horse and numerous dogs on my property so. Yeah, that's all I'm going to say today but nice to see you Madam chair. Thank you to Lisa and please say hi to Sharon when you see her. And I would just say I would respond to that with, you know, all respect that, as I said, probably at least three times this is not for everyone. This is a matter of choice, and I totally respect any other religions position on this, I just think that this allows for some of us who might not be Catholic to to make that choice. I would just say, you know, with certain religions require the, the burial of a body within 24 hours. And, you know, I appreciate that too. So, to each his own representative Toronto. And I call one of the conversations around being buried on your property was when you sell the property and how do you keep that plot in perpetuity after the after it's passed on so, you know, my neighbor did that and fortunately another neighbor bought the property and has agreed to, you know, keep a little fenced area with the with the grave in it. So, but I don't, you know, if you sell to a developer, your major God. That was one of the conversations I recall taking place around the backyard burial. And there are our notice requirements to be made. This came up 12 or 12 or so years ago as well just like what happens when there's an ancient family plot in the back corner, and somebody wants to build their house bigger and build it in a different place or do some development. What are the notice requirements who do you have to contact how many, you know, weeks do you have for, you know, who do you have to track down from the family, you know, those things are handled. But I don't want to say inconsistently but they're handled in ways that but if you can't easily find a relative. Yes, you, you can dispose you can move the remains. It's a, you know, it's a sensitive subject for obviously for a lot of people. And as is the disposition of remains period. And really the addition on the St. Johnsbury courthouse they found an old cemetery when they excavated for the, for the foundation and it delayed the project considerable time. Each skeleton was treated very reverently and they were excavated and moved to a cemetery and I remember looking out the window and seen entirely a tire family, husband wife and two children one on each side holding hands in the grave. It was very, very interesting, but they were all moved very reverently and put in another place and that was taken care of it didn't delay the construction project but it was very interesting to watch. And that speaks a little bit to the difference between European burials and indigenous burials as well. Indigenous folks tend not to be as in our in European cemeteries but that each, each body that's found has to be studied. It would slow it down archaeologists would come out and determine who what what remains were European and what remains were were indigenous. All right, any further questions for Carolyn right now we're not going to go through the 50 pages. And if we do. If we do pick this up, there will be, I'm sure. Cabaret style puns to be made but I think it at heart it is an important, you know, it's a we have to deal with it respectfully because it is something that is how we disposed of our loved ones is not. A light matter and, and we'll take it up in in that spirit of knowing that if we do make changes to the statute that will be done. Respectfully. Well, thank you for joining us and thank you Mr chair really appreciate and thank you committee for your time. It's, it's really a pleasure to see you all I'm interested in getting back to the State House eventually so I can see you all in person, because this is a little different. But thank you for, for hearing about h244. Thanks Carol. Thank you.