 Good morning, Karibuni Sana. Welcome back to Y254. This is Y in the morning. Remember today we are doing health on Monday. My name is Draym Uchache. You can find me on Twitter and Dray underscore Uchache. And in case you'd like to interact with this wonderful interaction that's going to be going on today, it's going to be a very interesting discussion, please throw back your questions and your thoughts. Mamounizako on our Facebook and our Twitter. That's Y254 channel as well as our Instagram. That's Y254 underscore channel. Today we have back one of our wonderful psychologists is here to discuss a topic known as the male ego or understanding the male ego. And his name is Dr. Ogonda. Karibu Sana, Dr. Ogonda. Yes, we're glad to have you back. Thank you very much. Yes, it's a cold morning out there, but there's some things we need to discuss. Definitely. Yes. And so today we thought it would be interesting to talk about the male ego because actually even when I was just interacting with some of my workmates, a lot of the people around didn't know what a male ego was or that there is something as a male ego. And I thought that maybe the best thing we should do is to have you explain to the people who are watching who don't understand what it is. What is a male ego? Well, before I continue with your question, I would like to define the word ego in itself. Oh, right. Yeah. Ego is a Latin word that refers to I as a person. Yeah. But in English, you'd say like a sense of self-esteem. Sense of self-esteem. Or self-importance. Sense of self-esteem or self-importance. Yeah, something about you as a person. Okay. Okay. So that's why we talk about ego. It is self. Okay. Before I continue further, I would like to clarify that both male and female have ego. Okay. Yeah. I'm glad you said that. Because we are human beings. Okay. Yeah. We share all the common characteristics that human beings do have. Okay. But the reason why we refer to this as a male ego, because the selfness in men is more pronounced than it is in women. Okay. So we would refer to it as the male ego. We'll talk more about it as time goes by. These are some of the terms that a psychoanalyst called Sigmund Freud. Sigmund Freud. Yes. He was a psychoanalyst. People who have done psychology, it is under the theories of personality. Okay. Yes. You will find Sigmund Freud talking about the ego and the super ego. Okay. The aid, for example, is responsible for taking care of our basic needs. These are parts of the mind. They are not parts of the brain. So the aid is responsible for taking care of our basic needs. I hope you know what our basic needs are. Yes. Food, water, things that you need to survive. The ego is the part of the mind that is real and acts as a mediator between the aid and the super ego. Okay. Yes. So it is in between. It is in between. Yeah. It is you yourself. It is real. It is not something that is unconscious. So it is not what people would say because sometimes I think they refer to the ego as elusive. Because elusive then means it is an illusion sometimes. And before we go further, I would like you to go deeper into eating an ego. Yeah. But then you had said that both male and females do have it. Yes, they do have it. And where I come from the school of, okay, no, I am not a psychologist. Yes. So I cannot give my opinion. Yeah. It would not be a proper opinion because that is not my certified field. Yeah. So what I did was to research a little bit and then I came, I found a little bit of an imbalance, a little bit of a division. Yeah. There are psychiatrists, psychologists and people from medical fields and medical practitioners that do believe that females have no ego, that is exclusive to the male ego. Yeah. And then there are those who subscribe to the same part as you, that yes, it does occur in both genders, male and female. Yeah. And maybe we can go on to discuss the aid and the thoughts of Sigmund Freud and you can tie it up together. Yeah. As I had mentioned earlier, the aid is responsible for satisfying our basic needs. And the ego acts as a mediator between the aid and the super ego. Our super ego is responsible for the perfection. It makes us do things perfectly. And also it punishes misbehavior by making you react in a certain way. For example, punishing misbehavior in the real sense, I would talk about having an extramarital affair. Okay. Your super ego will punish that act by making you feel guilty. Right. Yes. That is why you will see people having what you call passwords in their phones, they don't want their spouses. It is your super ego that is punishing that behavior by making you to know that what you are doing is not good. Okay. But you're protecting it. Yes. Yeah. So that is the work of the super ego. Right. And the ego itself acts as a balance between the aid and the super ego. It is in between and it is real. It is you yourself as a person, what you do. For example, if we talk about satisfying one basic need, your aid, part of the mind that will tell you that you are hungry. Okay. That is the aid. The ego, yourself, the real part of the mind that is dealing with yourself will make you go look for food. Right. Yes. Okay. I see. And I'd like for us to talk about maybe a few examples because you mentioned when you're describing, you've described the aid and what it's responsible for. You now also describe the ego, what it's responsible for. And you also said that since our topic today is particularly focused not on the basic needs, but so much on the ego, what we're calling the self-importance and the importance of self-esteem. Could we maybe go delve a little bit deeper into that? And first of all, I'd like if maybe you have an example that you can give. And then after that, to explain exactly why you mentioned the words self-importance and self-esteem. Yes. Well, it just refers to self. Right. The way you consider yourself as a human being. Then why isn't it just self-esteem? Why isn't it just self-esteem? Why is it ego? Well, it encompasses both. It can either be self-importance or self-esteem. But in general, it is self. The other ones that we have added, we don't have to put much emphasis on them. The main thing is self. It means self. I, you know. So, can you come up with a question? Yes, I would like if you could give an example when we're talking of a male ego. What we are discussing about, apart from the extramarital one. Okay. Fine. To understand male ego, we have to, first of all, understand or get to know that this is a term that has been used since the times in memorial. It is not something that just came up like that. It is because of so many factors that come up together that form the male ego. For example, it is just a belief, a cultural belief that our society has about masculinity and maleness. Men are expected to do important, difficult tasks. Okay. This society has created that forum for us to think that way. For example, when we were born, I mean, when God made the earth, he first made the man. Culturally, people are set to believe that man is more superior than the woman. In many cultures. In many cultures. And that is why I can give an example. Even in a bedroom, you will find the man sleeping side next to the door and the lady sleeping on the wall. Yeah. The reason is the man, the society expects them to be stronger, caring, more powerful, doing more difficult things than the rest. And that is where the male ego develops. Apart from the notion of selfness or self-importance, there is a culture of beliefs in our society about how we should think about men and what they should be doing. Yeah. That is what brings up the male ego, the male selfness. Okay. Yeah. And I guess maybe we can focus on our country just to make things simpler. Yeah. Kenya, I do believe, is a patriarchal society. Very patriarchal. Yes. Where men are everything. Men are God's gift to women. Men are God's gift to the world. And it's kind of become like an accepted thing. Yeah. Recently we saw situations where young ladies were being killed by men, because these ladies had decided to walk away from relationships. But the man decided that, no, I've invested too much and you deserve to die. And I'd like for you to, is there such thing as an ego when it comes to that school of thought where you have a society where taking lives of young people comes from, no, there's no way you can take that from me and walk away free. I will have to take something from you, even if it means taking your life. Do you think that describes a male ego? To some extent, yes. But to some other extent, I wouldn't think that would be the case. What would be the case? That wouldn't be the case, because if you want to understand the male ego and understand first of all what the society expects of a man, I think I talked about it. The society doesn't expect you to be too violent to be killing people. That is why I don't agree with it, that male ego might 100% be responsible for, you know, murdering of spouses and whatever is happening in our country at the moment. I think when I was here last time we talked about cumulative stress and depression, which have not been addressed, that would lead to battering of women, killing them, and that kind of stuff. But the ego does not show you to kill. What we should know about the male ego is the type of ego that the society has put on us. The type of ego that the society has placed on us to think about. You know, the way the society has stemmed us to think about the male ego. I don't know whether you are getting that. Yes, I am. I am following. Please go on. So you will find that the society has put men on one side and put men on the other side. You will find that men just love sports automatically. And it could be football, boxing, and that kind of stuff. Women are always aloof to such kind of sports. The reason why is that the society has made us think that difficult things or things that are extraneous should only be performed by men. So they are giving men more power to be on top of women. And that is the reason why I said partly it could contribute to the example you have just given, the things that are happening in Kenya, but not a hundred percent. All right. That is your expertise opinion. And if I could go to the root of it, we have said this is a patriarchal society. That means that if there is an ego that is being perceived on the society, being pushed on the society, that means it is not coming from the female side. If we are going to say that a society is male dominated, that means that whatever rules, whatever laws, whatever they come up with will come from the male side. And so then I feel like maybe everything you have discussed, even if it is the ego that has been imposed upon us, even that has been decided by men themselves, not by women. Because like I said, this is a very male dominated society where we respect the opinions of men and take them very seriously. Yes. And in that sense, I would say that maybe when it comes to ha, maybe I can ask a question. Let me not say something. Let me ask in that sense of what I've said. Yes, it's not 100 percent driven by the male ego, but there is a male ego that is in there. And I do believe that maybe the ones who do take murder weapons and kill people tend to have much bigger egos than other men do. And I would like to say, although women do do the same and commit the same acts of murder or do the same things once in a while, they commit adultery, all sorts of things. But yes, there might be a little bit of pride within them, but I would still stick to the school of thought that there is an ego in there that is driving people to do certain things that females can't bring themselves to do. There's something that is missing within the women that the men have. And that is why I think I told you, men have that. We have been given the powers, more powers than we should be given. By men. We should have. We have given more powers than we should have. And that is why. And also women validate this. Do you know that? I think it's a psychological issue because once you're so used to a society where you've been told you cannot lead, it reaches a point where you're too afraid to lead. And so you'd rather vote for a man than to take up a position and lead as a woman. Because in your mind, you're so used to men leading. Yes. Anyway, I get what you mean. But there are certain ways that women also can come up and handle this male ego. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I think we should also look into that. Okay. Yeah. Because we are living in a society where men have been given the power and people have validated it, including the women. They have accepted that men are more stronger or are expected to do more important things. Is it acceptance or brainwash? Well, is it really acceptance? Once you are brainwashed and you don't challenge it, then you have accepted. No, it takes time to recover. Yes, definitely. So you will find that when the government advertises jobs for the Kenya Army, you will find you know what the consequences are. Okay. Yes. When the courses, the courses in the university, the more difficult courses are always left for men. And you'll find that, for example, the other day we were watching television at home. And then there was a feature of a lady, a truck driver or something. Then I saw everybody in the house was like wondering, a truck driver, a lady? And I told them what's the problem? She's a human being. She must be very special. Wow. Do you see? Yes. Because the society has ascribed certain roles for our gender. Tough things like driving trucks, going to Somali, working as the army are ascribed to men. And this is what has shaped the way the men behave and think and consequently what they do. So society has shaped the way the men behave and think. Yeah, because of the gender roles. Even their behaviors, what they decide to say, how they decide to think, it's all because society has said, you as a man, you must be this. And therefore that is stuck in the mind of the man. And he must carry that out. Although it's not always the case. It's not always the case. It is a gender role. No, gender roles are ascribed by the society to both male and female. So you'll find when you find your son or a man in the kitchen, you'll ask him what he's doing there. As if he doesn't eat. The society has given us some roles. The kitchen belongs to the woman. A man should. I'd like to stress the society, again, is the man who have decided this. I don't think women one day woke up and said, as a man, you should never step foot in the kitchen, I doubt. That's what I'm saying. It is gender roles. Gender roles are the roles that the society ascribes to both male and female. Okay, there are things that you should do in a society which men are not expected to. That is by the society. There are things that a man should do that a woman is not expected to do. So people grow up knowing that this is what we are supposed to do. This is not what we are to do. So this is what brings the, this is what validates the male ego. I'll wait for you to get to that point. We can't talk about it before knowing what gender roles says about men and women. And so as we're winding up, as we're winding up, you have said that all this has finally come down to this is what validates the male ego. And when you're validating the male ego, it's something that you are, like you said, society, number one. And also it validates your actions, validates the way you do things. It validates the way you speak and you say, as a man, this is how I should behave. And as a lady, you should do that. So this is what validates the male ego and you'll find that men are behaving that way. However, in brief, there's a way we should handle the male ego. One of the things is for women to challenge this stereotype that of maleness and masculinity. Yes, challenge it. If men are challenging it means involving yourself in the tasks that men are doing. You will realize that it is not something that the society has or was not born with it. You can always do it. It will change the perception that people think it's only men who should do this. Challenge those roles and evolve yourself in those roles. I've seen women now being doctors, engineers, track drivers, pilots. Previously, these were men's roles. Secondly, be as close as you can to your partner. When you are close to him or a male friend, when you are more close to the person, the person opens up and will also do roles that a woman is supposed to do. For example, if you're close to your man enough, he'll help you wash clothes, which society thinks men should not do. He will cook. So get as close as possible to him. You will find that he will be doing things that women are doing, which means the male ego can be challenged. These are things that the society has just made us to believe. A society created by men. Not really. The rules were made by men. Anyway, society consists of both male and female, so you never know. Well, the third thing, also try to empathize with the man. When he behaves that way, understand that he's behaving that way, because he has been brought up in a society where men are expected to behave the way he behaves. Empathize with him, put himself in his shoes. It's not because he wants to behave this way, but the society expects him to be that way. It's also very embedded in his head. Yeah, and he should also, fourthly, look at his sense of humor. The kind of jokes he gives you, or he jokes around, whether it is male or female, when he gives more jokes that are more demeaning about women, it shows that he's not ready to suppress his male ego. But when he gives jokes about good things about women, then it becomes very easy to handle this person. I'm glad that you've identified a way to see a high male ego that joking in a demeaning way about women can say a lot about a man. A lot about you. Like all the jokes, he can't go down. Yeah. So look at those jokes at times, and you will get to know what type of person this guy is. Unfortunately, we have to completely wind up. It looked like you have one more thing to say. Are you able to say it in one sentence? Is it possible? We should also learn to understand the reason why men express their emotions is the way we do. You will find that men don't cry in public, even though they have emotions. This is because the society has made them to do that so that they be strong and not show any weakness. This is a very wide topic. Maybe when we have time next time, we will continue with where we have left now. Yes. Thank you so much for listening. And thank you for coming, Dr. O'Connor. Thank you very much. We have been discussing the male ego, illusive or not. It is there and divisive or not. There are places, you know, people that subscribe to different thoughts about it, but we are here to discuss and try to understand it. So let's remember to empathize with men who, you know, portray these signs, to understand where they're coming from and leave it be. And also, if you're able to challenge those, challenge the male ego, please go ahead and do so. It's the only way to change what we're calling a patriarchal society. Thank you so much for tuning in. And there's so much more we need to discuss. We might have a part two, but coming in next is youth and politics. Please do stay tuned. And remember, this is Health on Monday, and I'm Joy Bochache.