 We're going to take a break where let me just ask is there other people are we have not done general public comment yet? We've all had public comment on three other items. Are there any people who would like to make general public comment at this time? Please come forward Three minutes is your max a good evening So I'm coming with just a simple problem. I'm a person who rides his bicycle everywhere And to get to stores in Hadley. I've come to rely on the rail trail I've lived here for a short time a year and a half Last winter we had a good amount of snow. We've had a good amount of snow this winter as well The problem happens when we have enough snow that it sticks Tends to insulate itself freezes and the rail trail becomes unusable particularly on bicycles For a lot for an extended period of time That's my issue The alternative I live on Northampton Road the alternative to going down to go to the grocery store or as far as Walmart Or what have you is to use route 9? Going down Northampton Road Decidedly a pedestrian and cyclist unfriendly Situation So I want to know I don't know what's I know that it's it's the parks department that maintains it during the summertime They're cutting plants and stuff like that. I don't know what it takes to plow the rail trail You know we plow the streets or plow the roads They might be crappy for a day, but they melt because we clear off all the excess snow that builds up What would it take to plow the rail trail like we plow the sidewalks like we plow the roads? Thank you for your question. We don't have an answer Unless the town manager would like to provide one although we don't usually do that in general public comment Okay, would you please repeat your name and where you live? Oh, yeah, I didn't start with that My name is Dylan Callahan. I live on Kendrick Place off of Northampton Road. Okay Perhaps if you would send us an email I can see what I can find out as an answer. Okay. Thank you very much Thank you. Okay, additional public comment. Please come forward Good evening. I Answer to his question. Do you not mind? We really prefer that not be your public comment. Thank you Julian Hines 54 High Street District 4 I Unfortunately would like to express a little bit of disappointment in the council's decision to not hold public comment on the issue of electing a President and a vice president as well as positioning the issue towards the end of the agenda The council is a representative body where people of The people in the president is someone who sets the agenda and represents the counselors Not allowing the public to engage on this issue is in my opinion discouraging public participation As we see our democracy fading away at the national level It is now placed on local representatives bodies like yourself To Send an example and stand up to to be able to uphold our democracy not having public comment not having a public comment period on and setting This issue towards the end of the agenda is In my opinion discouraging public participation and public participation is a very critical part of democracy At this time at a time where our democracy is threatened I urge you to consider adding public comp adding a public comment period to the next agenda Where you elect a president president and vice president. I urge you to place this place the issue of Electing of president and vice president towards the beginning of that meetings agenda Um, I would also like to thank you for your time and consideration of my opinions. Thank you Thank you for your comment At this point, we're going to take a break and be back here in five minutes Yes, we are except for Paul. Okay In Order to try to get out of here before midnight or even 11 o'clock What we're going to do with regard to the bylaws is the following Jeff is here and he is We've asked him to speak to the various Things he wasn't able to be with us, but back in January. I mean December 16th But he'll speak to the various motions, but we are not going to have Conversation or vote on those motions tonight. We're going to delay that until the 27th Because first of all, there's a couple places. We need to polish it up I know there's at least one motion that one person has asked to add to that Kathy and It'll give us an opportunity to do that in a much more clean and efficient way and also get out of here before One o'clock tonight. Okay, so we're moving to bylaws. I don't know what you bet on but I didn't bet on Okay, Jeff Thank you. First of all for your incredible work on and being the keeper of our bylaws and For being the assistant to two bylaw review committees the one that preceded the swearing-in of the council and the one that succeeded the swearing-in of the council so That we had a pretty robust discussion last time Jen on December 16th there are three and possibly four areas of Bylaws that people have either said they would like to amend or in one case actually put something back in and Perhaps you would like to speak to those and there may be just a few questions from the council And then as I mentioned, we're not going to actually take those bylaw changes up tonight We're going to do that on the 27th of January. Okay, absolutely. Thank you and Obviously, I was just staffed to the committee. They did the bulk of the work. So So I think I'm aware of the three of the potential amendments one is to The bylaw review committee recommended removing the condo and cooperative conversion bylaw and it was to Put that back in I think that the recommendation that was the recommendation of the original 10.7 you committee the appointed by the select board and It was a discussion among staff and when was this bylaw last used has it been used recently? Do we anticipate it being used? And the answer was it has not been used in recent memory there was no anticipation that it was going to be used and That it hadn't been particularly popular So it wasn't necessary. It wasn't necessary in staff's opinion planning staff and inspection services To keep it and that's why it was recommended for removal You're the policy-making body if you think it's important to maintain it. I don't think that there's I Certainly wouldn't have a strong objection. I wouldn't anticipate other staff members having a strong objection to keeping the bylaw on the books Let me just pause and say I believe Kathy as you have brought it back You've actually made some changes in it. How I work correct Yeah, it had to have at least Minor wording change because it was the select board that issued a permit And so the permit would have to go through the planning board, you know, it would it be a different permitting process and I thought it could be slimmed down the the motivating forces along paragraphs as you clean these up, you know right now We're in the state of emergency is the way and and you've just stated that we haven't been using it So we're clearly not in a state of emergency right now So, I mean that would had nothing to do with what was in it So it would be put it back in but it could be condensed with a few wording changes Listen, that's we're asking Jeff who definitely downplayed his role We could not have survived any of this without Jeff And the amount of detail that he put into all those reports that you all read very carefully. It's incredibly important Beyond just objecting to what Kathy's attempting to do with putting that with keeping that byline there Although I understand the logic behind it is you can't change select board to planning board. That's not a thing So that doesn't make any sense. You're talking about what was an executive elected body and putting it into Planning board that just and so to me if you really want to make that change I would need to understand better. What other municipalities do that? Nobody a very few people have our firm of government So I mean Jeff could speak to the fact that we were really careful about who we Transitioned and that there were a couple of points that were really difficult to sort out Who should get it? You know if it had just been a find and replace town meeting becomes town council town manager Okay, so the issue again, we're going to start getting into the debate of the actual change So let's not go there, but the issue that I think Kathy will want to look at between now and the 27th is What is the appropriate substitution for what was in there? And and I have the 14 other towns that have local municipal laws Okay for reference and some of them do use their planning board. So that would be the issue great. Thank you Yes, but I just suggest since we're an open meeting that maybe Board of licensed commissioners be considered as the permit the Permitting authority for that because they actually do do regulatory Stuff to right so yeah, so that would be you know, I found it in a couple towns So any other potential and are you submitting all of the documents in addition to the changes in other words The documents where you've looked at other towns. I Haven't yet. I just provided a link to the document that gives the 14 summaries But I certainly can't please do that. Okay. All right, so Moving on to the next one. Okay The next one I believe was to or the next one. I'll talk about is reinserting language into the single-use plastic bag ban bylaw and I believe the reasoning that it was originally taken out it was I Forget what we called it introduction or purpose section that if I recall correctly talked about sort of the global issues cited statistics maybe from 2016 and The bylaw review committee felt that it was outdated and no longer Necessarily relevant simpler similar to what councilor Shane was saying about Maybe not being in a crisis for condo conversions any longer Not not that the issue isn't still important just that the statistics might not be relevant anymore and then the removal of Two related things certain definitions that were only used in one particular Section and that section the bylaw review committee felt was important Was not critical because it was not actually enforceable. It was Encouraged people to bring reusable bags and it encouraged businesses to use several types of bags and I believe it Recyclable compostable Maybe reusable as well and and there was no enforcement mechanism. It's not saying you have to offer these different types of bags. It was so the best practices that At least the 10.7 you committee had been following were sort of based on legislative drafting from The mass legislature and it says you really only want to include in your legislation What you want to legislate and this did not seem like it was actually legislating anything. It was just sort of More of a feel-good piece. And so that I think that was the reasoning that the committee thought that It would be appropriate to remove that section and then Once that section was removed the definitions were not used elsewhere in the bylaw So felt that those definitions were not necessary Okay Darcy so we're not debating this now. No we aren't We're just getting a sense of the committee's report from Jess perspective okay and then the third is the inclusion in the unlawful noise bylaw of What I would call mechanical equipment as our Common mechanical equipment and I think that And it's been a while since I've looked at the bylaw So it I may not be getting this absolutely right But I believe that the other examples of unlawful noise talked about human generated noise amplified sounds and I think that What we found was missing were Mechanical noises and specifically lawn mower snowblowers. We tried to think of the committee tried to think of examples of Loud noise that might be disturbing to neighbors if used early in the morning or late at night And felt that it was not necessarily covered by and anywhere else in the bylaw and it would be Important to include for that reason. So that's why that section was added Okay, Kathy, I just a question because I actually Finally sat down for hours and read the work you'd put in and it was a lot of work And at the very beginning of the rewritten that you say when we use the word includes we're not being There can be other things so our list is not complete so It struck me in this case on noise that there's a strong statement of what you're what you're trying to prohibit You know sounds that disturb people and you say this isn't includes and then you have a list of which things But it's not exclusive to those so by adding a couple more things which might not make any noise It doesn't strengthen it. So I I think when we come back to this I was thinking that that extra sentence just wasn't needed at all You know, and we had one person right in I have an electric lawnmower doesn't make any noise You know, so I mean it's some things that do make noise aren't listed So I just come back because you wrote a nice clause that said we're not Saying these are the only things the thing we're going after is loud noises that disturb people All right could come from all these sources again. We'll get into that debate when we actually do this Kathy you had one other one that you did not raise back in December Right. I I have one and it was in a sort of a question when I went back and read the edits on responsible employer that had removed a Long list of specifics. I understood that was because Those were already stated in the MGL laws that were cross-referenced but there were some specific Wording that I couldn't find an MGL and I just wanted to make sure that we're not Removing a protection that used to be there that that's my question And so I found a couple instances for example That the employer or the subcontract after state in writing that they are going to abide by these We don't have that sentence anymore, you know So it's an attestation and then we had a penalty if you terminate them All together for for violations that we had a 5% of the remaining liquid Remains of the contract as a penalty. So we removed that so I I just kind of wanted assurance that we didn't take something away that we've had because it went beyond what is in the state law and I So much of it was gutted. So that's a discussion for next week Um, let me just suggest that if you have specific areas in which you would like to Understand or make sure that that was not done Would you please send them to me and I will I will them appropriately and I copied and pasted them the sentences that I flag So I can send them and then the only other one. I mean, this is the other one I'm personnel board. I understood why you made the changes But as I understand it now the pound Tell manager is appointing the personnel board. We've taken away some of the authority They had to do the authority to do procedures and I wasn't sure we had to do that So I want to have just a better understanding of that next and I'll send my questions in it was a question Because the town manager is the appointing authority But it seems like we've removed a lot of the authority that the personnel board has had and I didn't know whether We had to do all of that to comply with the charter or not. So I Wanted a better understanding of that My recollection is that that that was the town attorney's interpretation of what the charter required As far as the authority that was vested in the town manager in the charter I'll send the specifics, please and because I can see why one part, but it it seems like it just undermined a lot And I thought maybe it went too far Okay We're gonna proceed then to the next comment. Thank you. Thank you, Jeff all right, so At our last meeting we had a discussion And there was an agreement that you would like to have a conversation about The roles and duties of the president and vice president and particularly is in relationship to committees, etc etc meaning anything else you want to talk about and That separately you would like there to be an election For the next term of the president vice president and during that time Individual counselors would be Invited allowed otherwise called on to In in so that everyone is called on to make any kind of a value to have our other kind of comments They would like to about the candidates. So I then Whatever comments about candidates comments. That's in the election part of it. Okay, so this is the so I put together an agenda Suggested by one of our counselors where we split the two We put the roles and duties of the president vice president relationship to committees first and we put the election at the very end So that we don't change Officers in the middle of the meeting So I let me just say that In preparation for your this discussion Your packet includes both copies of the charter and the rules of procedure With all relevant sections to the roles and duties of the president and vice president highlighted in yellow Unless otherwise requested we will not spend time reviewing those But rather move immediately to the discussion and I ask that as with all council discussions we respect This we expect and respect that this discussion be civilized. Thank you starting You asked for the agenda item. Let's hear Kathy I Asked the agenda and I also had made the motion to delay which led us to this discussion So I I want to start off by saying this was not at all Directed at the job you've done as president Lynn or Mandy as vice president This was more looking across the committees and looking at cross the roles that the vice president the president have played In committees as well as president vice president. I'm concerned that we've got an emergence of a Concentration of power that may not have been intended intended, but that if you look at Which committees the president is on which committees the vice president is on and know that they are also the two people that are meeting Most frequently with the town manager more generally Not necessarily the rest of us have a very good access to Paul on a list of issues from our district or things that have come up But we don't go in with a what's coming up? Let's talk about it that and and the reason I'm concerned about that is that We should Think of ourselves as setting a precedent for the future Where as much as possible every councillor should be rotating through? Responsibilities where there's a rapid learning curve so people could potentially Be enriched by it if they wanted to run for a second term and so the learning curve is not is Cut short if the concentration of power means not as many people are on key committees or they're not chairing key committees that there's a Repeatedness that's one concern and I'm also thinking that people looking in Saying do I want to run two years from now? We'll say oh, there's an in-group That does almost everything and some people might say well That's kind of nice I can come on and be a new councillor and not spend a lot of time on a lot of different issues Others would say if I want to come in and be a rapid learner and have a strong voice I'm not sure I'm going to get opportunities What do I need to do? So it's a combination of the way the roles have played out interacting with committees Where the president is appointing the committees and can appoint his or herself can appoint the vice president and And in thinking of the other roles are playing so that's why I wanted to initiate this I didn't know of the where anyone else felt this way, but I I had a worry and concern as I watched The key committees and I'm now. I'm not calling just the council committees, but JCPC we that's a Council-appointed committee in theory rather than the president but because of the way we started out The president got all the lists of where everyone wanted to be and some names repeat in key positions Often so that's why I wanted to have this conversation. Okay Additional comments Evan So this is I want to just make sure I say this and this will come up again I think when we get to the restructuring thing, but I really am uncomfortable with the idea of Defining some of the council committees as key committees and others is not I think we can all acknowledge that there might be an imbalance of power But I think we should be looking at all of the committees of the town council as Equal in their work equal in their responsibility and and I think that will inform the discussion we have later But I do take issue with framing this as there are key committees And then there are not key committees and we need to think of it that way I think that's a really problematic way to to frame this not that I don't disagree with some of the things that were said But I hope we don't continue a discussion that singles out some committees as key committees Okay, additional comments Yes, Steve. Yeah, so I think for me is the key issue is leadership development And so I don't see the concentration of power because I think that Maybe I'm blind to that but I do see you know opportunities for leadership development and I I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but So we know that the president's position is defined. We know that the vice president's position is only defined as its He or she sits in for the president of the president's unable to you know to serve So I do I have heard about And you know agenda-setting meetings and so forth, and I really don't know exactly what the vice president You know what that relationship is the vice president and the president But I do I personally see the vice president as an opportunity for you know, basically it's like a ride-along you know on You know with the Sort of a ride-along where you can learn about basically what happens behind the scenes or basically what the president does And make a decision from that if you want to someday run for president yourself Including tonight All right additional comments Alyssa so I had actually asked for this conversation to take place by asking via email some months ago and as I Indicated our last meeting obviously we got busy. We all wanted to have another retreat all kinds of things came up, but Reminding us again not to be repetitive, but of the optics So Kathy talked about one kind of optics and the kind of optics that I talked about also is that if It's just decided that we have a five-minute meeting to have Or five minutes on the agenda to have an election of president and vice president It looks like we all decided what it was outside of the room. That's pretty clear that that's what happened because Somebody must have discussed something somewhere and so we don't want to set that example for people That's not what we want to show. Is it really awkward to have these conversations in public? Absolutely 100% super awkward Is it unusual to try and have these conversations? Absolutely, but we just changed forms of government since 1954 to today and so we are making changes We are trying to make things better We're trying to engage more people and trying to show that there's not just in in crowd and out crowd and we don't want to all just the 13 of us be the in crowd and You know, we'll figure out who the president is, you know I don't want public comment on it But I do want us to feel like we can have a conversation that isn't about individuals and the Incredible amount of hard work that they've put into things. It's about the roles and how they perceive the roles and how they might consider Thinking about their roles differently. So for example One of the things that came up when we had such an awkward election the first time that I had to Nominate myself in order to feel like we could even have this conversation. So I'm glad we made the space for it this time so we didn't have to do that is that There was this old Bizarro way that the select board rotated vice chair the reason for doing that was so that you would learn What it was like to do agenda setting. I said, you know, I was a really weird thing. We did Not expecting we do that here plus it wouldn't work out very evenly with 13 members But what has happened is no one here knows what agenda setting looks like. It's been a year We I brought this up when we had the election. There was no Attempt to include other people in agenda setting now. I was kind of a bunch of us there, but That kind of thing is the kind of thing I wanted to be able to talk about in this conversation It's not about personalities. It's about everybody's running around trying to do things super fast and get things done But what are we losing by doing that? And I don't feel that the vice president job should always be the trajectory to the president It could be a different role. Yes, lots of professional organizations, of course You know your first vice president your second vice president everybody knows that's how it works And that's just how it is or they just rotate president automatically Which I think is a terrible idea because some people are really lousy presidents And so we shouldn't necessarily rotate that and that's not everybody's skill set or desire or time commitment But what I'm looking for is Even though it's awkward to have the conversation Perhaps not even necessarily to fix anything for now But as we continue to move forward to say how can we check in with each other? And it doesn't have to be at a retreat because we can't really take any more additional meetings at this point in our lives But to have to be able to talk about How do other people get included in doing things because there are clearly people who feel like they haven't been able to get the committees They've wanted obviously someone's gonna be unhappy always with that Unfortunately no matter how people try and manage that but also just what is happening And so what is happening with agenda setting in terms of what are upcoming ideas? I will say having been in town government since 1999 We get less notice of what we're doing on any individual agenda than the select board did and then town meeting did We are less transparent to our own members than we were under the former form of government, which is bizarre Because everybody's working really hard and racing around but I don't see us Finding our way to making that so those are the kinds of things I would like us to think about and try and improve on and what are different ways we could help We don't want to put all the burden on the president vice president I had the final thing I just want to touch on is that the charter is far more prescriptive As to what the vice president does now I wasn't on the charter commission So I don't know why they chose to do that then the old town government act was but it does say Preside which to me means if the president's gonna miss a meeting the vice president presides It does not in any way shape or fashion in the English language mean that if the president Can't give the remarks at the Memorial Day parade. It's automatically the vice president who does it? When I was on the select board, we said who wants to do Veterans Day who wants to do black history month We could include other people we could give them the responsibility to represent us Rather than it always being the president vice president It doesn't have to be that way even though the charter says preside if you miss a meeting So I'm just asking us to think about it in a more open way Dorothy I do think that it's sometimes efficiency has drawbacks and I think right now It's a very efficient use of the vice president, but what it does is it? precludes any thoughts of something being different. It's kind of like the vice president is the president in training and I don't I didn't really think about that when when we had the vote that much I just thought okay, that's the vice president and I thought we're gonna get different officers at some point in the future Just probably because the officers might burn themselves out. So I do agree that the vice president's role should be Not as a mini me to the president, but that the duty should be spread more I agree with some of the things that Alyssa said Although I do see that this is part of it probably it's been continued this way because of the burden of work and are trying to get things done in a kind of a quicker more efficient way, but maybe it's after one year we can Spread our wings just a little bit and spread things around Okay Darcy I Guess I would I would agree with Alyssa and some of her thoughts about Equalizing some of the responsibilities rotating jobs among us and I Think that you know last year when we had our vote we talked about What's the role of the vice president and we didn't really have any experience at that time as to what it could be? So actually I'm interested in hearing from Mandy Joe about What does she do? What are all those things that she does that we don't even know Just to you know to give us an idea what her workload is because You know, she's all so a chair of a committee and that's a huge job in itself From my perspective But and I totally appreciate all the work both Mandy Joe and Lynn have put in I'm just in complete awe but I do also see that that That you're doing so much That it would make sense to spread it out among the rest of us and and some of us would like to learn some of these things Especially around agenda setting So actually yes, Mandy. Could you tell us all the stuff you do? I want to encourage Mandy Joe to do that in a manner that splits it between being a counselor and being vice president because the Charter and the rules of procedure Allow both the president and the vice president to be members of standing committees the rules of procedure ask that the President not chair a standing committee, which I personally totally agree with But it does not prohibit that for from the vice president doing that. I also want to point out that While the president has the right to appoint people to standing committees, they do not select the chair The chair is selected by the committee so What may be a parents of Favoritism Isn't a decision of the president or frankly the vice president So with that Mandy Joe, I just asked because having worked with you So I don't know how I'm speaking. I will try to separate them as I talk but um So over the past year one of the things the president specifically asked me to do every other week was Review the minutes so I am doing that I would consider that not as counselor because I think if I was not the vice president I would not be reviewing the minutes for Modifications because I'm not a big fan of reading minutes So that I feel like is a job. I've been doing as vice president reviewing all of the council minutes and getting recommended changes to Athena Within the time frame they she provides And I have regularly been keeping track of agenda requests in preparation for agenda setting so that I can I've made I think four notes already tonight at tonight's meeting about potential agenda items for coming up so that I can Add agenda setting bring them up And make sure things don't go, you know, don't get lost in stuff. I Probably if I wasn't sitting in a gender setting wouldn't track that as closely And then obviously I've been going to agenda setting so I have been participating in that I Have over the course of the last year crafted and helped counselors craft motion language for various motions or various amendments to motions I Have a hard time separating that up way from whether that's just something I've been doing as a counselor or something I've been doing as vice president. I can't always tell whether someone's coming to me because I'm vice president or Because they think I might have some good advice And I have as vice president stood in for the president of a variety of public events Some of the list is the library legislative breakfast all of the Kanagasaki events The human rights day proclamation reading and some of the stuff at the state of the town address Things like that Were done at the request of the president because I'm vice president That happened sometimes on months notice and sometimes on hours notice And I presided over the meetings the president couldn't attend for the council And so that's a role of the vice president and at the president's request. I have been the sort of go-to guidance person on charter Whether that's probably not because I'm vice president that's probably because I was a member of the Charter Commission But I have given a lot of feedback on what the Charter says And sometimes when there's questions as to what the intent of the Charter Commission was I have tried to provide Answers to that. I have given the president feedback on a Wide variety of matters just through email or through meetings when she requested it Committee assignments when she was making committee assignments last a year ago. She sought my Feedback on them and I gave my feedback I Believe that was as a role of vice president not as counselor drafts of documents Motions sometimes I know other counselors are involved in motion language now, too but but not just motions sometimes resolutions prior to when we had some Big stuff going and sometimes on a short-term basis But other Documents that might be going out to the public sometimes she seeks my Guidance or you know feedback on something she intends to respond to a email We got from a constituent as the town council and she wants an idea of you know, does it sound right? Am I getting everything things like that? And so I've done that too feedback on committee assignments included stuff like Did we were they split out to try and even a burden or is one to over burdened one not under burdened But also things like Did those assignments conform to the charges and making sure they do conform to the charges and any of the requirements of the charges? You know That's what I would say is about it that I could come up with when I was thinking about it before this meeting in terms of what I've done generally as vice president, so a lot of Sounding board, I would say is is some of it and then you know If people are wondering what goes on an agenda setting it really is just trying to figure out an agenda that might end by 10 What what needs to come up when we are failing miserably? You know what needs to come up? What can what can be postponed what you know the things like that? Can we postpone something tonight to not a later meeting to try and end earlier? How might that look you know how might that operate things like that? you know and as I said I try to keep track of what people have asked for on an agenda or what things were mentioned at some point and Mentioned them as to could we fit that in some point? There's no comments. Yes, Sarah So I feel like I was also a culprit in wanting to have this discussion It this is a very healthy discussion to be honest. I know no, I understand that but I just I wanted to share just some thinking about you know, we've been talking about Consolidation of power which is something that at the very first You know meeting when we were running that's something that that I brought up as we're starting a new form of government And I think that I've had to think really really hard about What's leadership and then what is power? because When I thought of some things that I thought perhaps were complaints that I might have about like a power structure I Realized that a lot of the things that had happened were people trying to figure out their role in how to lead 13 people and while there are some things that I felt was a little grabby or I didn't like In retrospect when I put picked all of those things apart I really felt that the president and the vice president had actually listened to a lot of my complaints and complaining and Had not pushed back But had tried to really listen to the things that I had said and then another thing that you know I'm also a person that's gonna say I want consistency and I want to make sure that we're all balancing You know power but another thing that I thought of too is that whole adage of there's No small roles only small actors and I think that any any one of us in any given Space that we're in committee or president or vice president We all have to work together to make a change so in that I think I Feel like all of us do have a chance to shine I think that when I think of agenda setting I I almost kind of compare it to how everybody felt about the CAF's Not seeing them not really knowing it. It felt like it was like this additional power that somebody had if they saw it And then we all got it. We were like, I don't know Do you know what I mean? So like I when I'm always like, I don't know what happens in agenda setting I don't but I'm like you said I'm not sure if sitting in there would help me or or not But I do think that there are some things that are really good to learn because I do think when you're you know Picking somebody for a leadership role. You often ask well Do you have experience and in this or that and and I think that you know Just saying plainly. Hey, could we take a look some time or is there a way now that things are slowing down for us? We could have a little bit more feedback. I think that's something that I would ask for but I think I Think all of us have to really rethink If we're saying I think that there's certain people that may have more power than others I Think you also have to take it a step back and see what power you're claiming for yourself and in working with Everyone else to make a change or a policy Yes, I forgot one other thing that I just remembered that you guys were asking for what I did at the request of the president I attended a number of meetings at UMass related to various UMass items In my role as vice president. I want to thank Sarah for what she just said on many levels I'm concerned about transparency I am concerned that That you've been sitting in or the vice president has been sitting in meetings pertaining to UMass And I'm not getting information from those meetings That that if if you're attending the strategic planning meeting, you know strategic agreement with UMass Meeting, I'm not getting any information And I think some of that responsibility goes out to you Paul and to Lynn in terms of calling executive session So I do feel like there's information that I'm missing as a counselor because there is a kind of closed system It's not one that I'm judging all that negatively It happens a lot. I know who I collaborate well with and who I Have more problems with not on the council in my life I am really talking about my life But I am concerned with number one transparency number two learning and Also looking at myself Around what kinds of them responsibility am I willing to take on? Am I giving away power or do I not want to do some of the work connected with a Power position and I am concerned on the lack of transparency within the context of this council When people are still saying well, there's this divide and there's that divide I some of the conversations that have occurred over the last week or so around this issue Have made me realize that we're still Some of that there's a level of distrust that Mirrors what existed when we first came on the council and I find that amazingly disappointing I really do our job is To work for the town of Amherst and I do think we need to look at how we rotate The responsibilities of a vice presidency. I think that's critical I Don't want to believe that there is a system in place and that so-and-so is going to be the next person and that and I Want us to work together But then I have to look at myself and say what responsibilities am I honestly willing to take on? not What responsibilities am I avoiding by saying other people are doing things to me? So that's all I have to say for this second Steve yeah, so if I may Can you talk more about what these meetings with you mass art? So I would defer to the president and the town manager to determine whether the content of those meetings is Discussable or not? One of the meetings that I did not go to initially Although I have recently been in is to discuss with the University their approach to the whole P3 P3 Which is the public-private partnership that they are using to Go out forbid in a very unusual way, which I'll explain in a moment For both the dormitories that would be on Mass Ave at the intersection of Mass Ave and Lincoln Ave and the married student are the Family and married student housing that will replace West Village North Village, North Village. Thank you and I did attend the second meeting on that and I bring to it the perspective of having You know worked at the University in the president's office and having attended Board meetings for my 30 years at the University 31 years at the University And what the main thing I learned is the trustees have completely changed the game with housing and They're they really want more and more P3s because it takes the burden of the financing if you will and the risk to some extent Off of the institution and puts it on the developer And you know For example it gave us an opportunity and this is no surprise because there's been discussions about this To raise the issue. Well, how do the neighbors feel? On Lincoln Ave etc about this kind of development those kinds of issues It was basically more informational and that would be an example and I feel like There are things other things that can't be shared here right now and how do we as Counselors get the same information that you're getting and so for me There may be perhaps needs to be some regularity of executive sessions or something so we can be filled in So that we can be working as knowledge of Lee as the rest of as of the three of you I don't know how practical that is but it seems to me that we're that we are unintentionally being kept from Information is being kept from us. That's important information Andy I I do want to address that but Andy go ahead I may be addressing a little bit some of the problem with executive session is is that Mass general law in the open meeting law is very narrow on what it allows for executive executive sessions and So that there's a lot of things that we would be Interested in knowing about but we either have to do it public or not do it at all and to not Because of the open meeting law and then you get into the question. Well, if you do it in public What is it doing to the? integrity of the Relationship that is behind the discussion in this case. We're talking of course about University and some very particular things that will lay not have the same discussion. So that's one thing that Does get in our way for and we just have to comply with what the lot tells us we have to do Think that the other thing that I Think about and what's the key? Triggered this right at the beginning Yes, the select board did act differently. We did rotate the vice presidency There were two factors that were different one was that it was a five-person board down to 13 member council the other is that How to say this plightly so just go ahead and say it anyway We were an extraordinary group. There was a level of trust amongst five of us who were in that role for the Last years that there was a select board and it allowed us to get through a lot of things including getting called to come to Amherst, but I'm not sure that a slightly different composition of that five-person board would have made that whole Relationship that we developed including the rotating vice chair worked not as well So they're just I think that it is really difficult to take us back. I don't think we can go back Though I sometimes miss it as much as Alyssa does And actually Andy has explained as recently as the last two months I Proved every way possible To take one item to executive session and it just didn't pass muster and so there was nothing I could do and And that's something this a learning issue for me. It's a learning issue for other counselors as to What you know The law says I Have other comments, but not right now go ahead. I appreciate the complexity of it But if there are meetings that Mandy or the vice president is attending Why isn't that being rotated with other counselors? I hear that is something maybe creatively we could begin to think about Steve But I think because the vice president is really only to find to sit on the Basically to sit in with the president when the president's unavailable primarily for council meetings. I I think I think this idea of rotating You know in other words that because the president can't do everything that's asked of her Thank you, and you know the vice president seems to be doing an amazing job, but it just seems like to You know sort of increase the knowledge base and the leadership potential that you know going into year two. That's a great strategy right, I will say that I've I've thought about this obviously since The last time we met I refused however to let it dominate my own personal life and holidays So give me a little applause for that one. Thank you very much mom and dad I But So one of those you know, that's a wonderful suggestion You know, I can't make something or frankly I don't want to make something and somebody's much more wed to an issue and You go out and stand on the front steps and you be the person that starts the The you know starts the comments and starts the commemorations or you go to the library thing That happens to be the Local political types the state rep and the state president the president The state senator So those are that's one thing. I will tell you that even a year ago I suggested and Paul is going to shoot me just so you all know just so you know I Suggested that once a month a different counselor come to agenda place setting and We never got anywhere with that but I'm going to raise it again Because it just gives you a little insight It's probably gonna add a little time because you're gonna want to ask questions that The background was three meetings ago and some of you may not even be interested in that I really want to respect Something Pat said and that is what am I willing to take on what what responsibilities am I willing to take on and so I'm open to these suggestions I Spent a lot of my career Working with all kinds of people and developing My skills as well as theirs So I have no problem with Trying to figure out and working with you all on how some of that Can be done in a better way. I will say that this year has been amazing I Think I anticipated how much time it was going to take and maybe it wouldn't have taken somebody else as much time And maybe somebody else went to what done the same job But It's how I do jobs like this it to me. It was a huge startup and That's the way I took it on so And now we're at the end of one year or a little bit past the one year a good point of one year and It's time to make some mid-course corrections. We're no longer in a total startup mode we are in a You know, let's refine it and frankly one of the things I want to refine it for is to make it a job All of the job all of our jobs all of our counselor jobs a much more doable job So that other people would even think about running for this job Because a lot of people right now look at it and say well, I guess I couldn't do that unless I'm retired or worked part-time or You know was willing to give up some other major portion of my life. So I I'm more than willing to have us continue this conversation to hear your comments individually or as a group And or we can move on Evan So I'm going to try and co-gently put a bunch of thoughts together I think that one of the conversations that we started with last year was is the vice president Simply sort of as Steve said as to finding the charter just there to preside when the president isn't there or their vice president And the president a team and I think that was a big division of opinion when we had the first election on December 3rd 2018 and it's not one that I necessarily had an opinion of at the time Listening to Mandy Joe talk about all of the things. She's she's done It made me think that I spent this past weekend with a with a friend who is chief of staff to a New York City counselor Which means that New York City counselors have chiefs of staff paid chiefs of staff Which is incredible he has a full-time job that is to be chief of staff to a city So That would be great Not saying that we're New York City But sometimes it feels like the workload is the same. They also have a 40 member 54 member council Anyways, um and so what I'm thinking of is in many ways What Mandy Joe is describing it are responsibilities that she would have that she would probably not have if we had staff But we don't and I don't think that anyone's making the case that we need fully funded 13 staff members I mean so thinking about that and thinking about the responsibilities of the president I don't have I have less of an issue with the president and vice president being a Team and having the president delegate some of these responsibilities to the vice president and work closely Together, I do like the idea of on occasion distributing some of those responsibilities out But I also want to point out that I think that's happened on occasion. I I was Really humbled that when we had the pride month declaration that the president said Pat and Evan you too wrote this you read it You raised the flag and the president stepped aside when it came to the regional assessment We recognized that really the most qualified to speak on that was Andy and so Andy did that and so I Want to acknowledge that this has happened on occasion It's just now we're sort of recognizing that that's happened and continuing it But when it comes to and I and I agree with Steve that I think leadership development is the key thing But to me personally the leadership development is the place for that is in the committees And so, you know, I know just in the past year I've changed quite a bit having to all of a sudden chair Oka Which was a lot more work than I expected and a lot more pressure and you know I think that sort of the the committees aware a lot of this leadership development could occur So I'm not too worried about it with the vice presidency Dorothy just a quick thought If enough of us are going to the MMA That would present us a possibility of having some kind of meeting in which we talked about this more. No, no That's a public meeting Fight the public It has to be in a location convenient to the public that you serve sorry Nice try Yes, Sarah So when we first talked about this a year ago, and I think that You know, we did talk a little bit about you know, will the president or vice president have Responsibilities that bring them, you know up and over the rest of us And I think you know originally it just sort of sounds like well No, probably not and I think that it's been tried to have it not be I think that what we're recognizing is is that There are some things that you know will bring the president and vice president there will at times get more information than the rest of us Will for we're finding different situations where that happens And that may just be as we're finding this form of government how that leadership actually Happened so I mean I think we have to take a look at what our practical experience was during this year and Practically trying to lead the town council and to try to put together agendas Should we look at? Other roles that the vice president had or that helped and then I think we should then say Maybe we should sit down and say here are things that happened I think maybe we want to consider putting those things in or we want to have a further discussion the fact that it really Hit me when Mandy Joe was talking about the things that she was doing is that the two of you have worked as a team Especially this first year when we didn't really know what we were doing We had to we had to really put process in place that wasn't there so I could see that you know there was that support I don't know the answer to this, but I guess I'm just really thinking How does that play out Further down the line and and I don't have an answer to that But I'm wondering if in committees will we see people just doing a really good job and having somebody that naturally is their Helpmate, I don't know. I mean I don't at this point In the beginning, I thought that having the vice president have more of a role was absolutely Negative I think maybe knowing being more upfront about what the role has become would be good And then I do think that this council itself because we're the very first one needs to talk about how does it play out? If a president and a vice president are help mates as far as How that would how you would maybe get a new president or vice president? I just think it's something that we need to be cognizant of I Am cognizant of the time are there any final comments people want to make on this? Alyssa I just want to point out that some of the I mean some of these conversation We had already and people weren't receptive to it then and now that we're accepted to it now So yay, we've made progress But we're not mostly saying new things One of the other things to keep in mind is that we very much underutilized the concept of confidential emails from the town manager Those are not public records subject and we could do more of those if the town manager trusted us Not to leak the information which he has to do so We have to be worthy of that trust So we have to not tell the press and not tell our friends, etc But that is a way of finding out that conversations are taking place Because we can be updated by that person and then there's no risk of serial communication like there would be for another and the other is associated with agenda setting we'd be far sub quorum as opposed to the end and let's remember that rotation Far preceded the incredibly well functioning select board It was a rotation that was being done by a very dysfunctional select board, but they liked it too for different reasons But again 13 is not gonna work But you could have three people at agenda setting and this would not be a problem Of course obviously it's just more space and time and questions as was very well put the thing that we've also been asking for for a year and have seen a couple of occasions is There's a document at least one that gets used an agenda setting I don't have any idea why the rest of us aren't getting copies of that document So we have a sense of what's coming up. What's happening what we think we're doing three months from now What we think we're doing three weeks from now that's it's simple It's not simple to do Done it what I'm saying is it's not an expression of opinion. So it is a working document It's not a secret and I don't see any reason why it couldn't be shared with the rest of us because then we'd all have a better sense of Oh, we're planning to talk about that then not now So maybe I'll save my other idea for then etc. Etc. And we've been asking for that for a long time And that's not been something that's been able to be happening Additional comments at this time Darcy I Agree was a list of comments there and I think that the Issue around that all the duties of and the tasks taken on by the vice president isn't so much the long list that Mandy joked just told us about but the combination of that amount of Influence with the fact that she's also chair of CRC and she's on JCPC and she's on GL former chair of GL and So that's that's a lot. That's a lot of Power basically and and it's not that she has exercised it in any kind of bad way But it's just I think the principle of the thing as far as Looking at the future of the council and how we want to organize ourselves and how we want to spread out some of these things So some of those things that Mandy Joe does all the time. Hopefully I'm hearing Can get spread out and as far as like agenda setting Attending meetings attending public events, you know, so that we all feel like we're being included and And giving some leadership opportunities Okay, Sarah Oh, I just want to say that that in I'm just gonna say Mandy Joe's Defense as Lynn said we pick our own Committee chairs and I believe that there are many places in which Mandy Joe has been put into a position of Power because other counselors have trusted her or have looked to her For expertise and so while I do agree that there are things like the vice president that you know Maybe we want to rotate duties and whatever There's an idea of fairness and then there is also you have to put in there Can the person that you are nominating can they are they up to the job? Because we can all want to be trained, but we all have to have the aptitude to do a certain job Any other comments? All right, I'm I'm sorry Kathy. I have it as a question. So Actually have an answer If if we weren't this specific group if we're talking about a council a few years from now Would it be healthier for councils to say that? Vice presidents serve for a year and then we do another vice president and I realize we all are doing elections Does is that healthier or is it better for our institution that we? Form a team and the team stays together And I'm asking it for leadership issues for other pieces and I don't have a strong answer on that You know certainly we don't for the president in the United States switch off us on vice presidents very often But that's a different situation and we don't elect them separately either They they come as a team and there is no choice So it's just a it's a has been a question in my mind and I have no idea what has happened in other councils What I have seen is that whoever starts tends to stay there's a certain inertia because people learn the job And you know unless they're really incompetent People get to trust their leaders which good you want good leaders to rise up to the top So I don't know with the answer to that as an institution and we're just in year one I Want to mention something that became to my attention. I honestly didn't know this during the charter debate But there was a debate within the Charter as to whether or not the president of the council should be restricted to an at-large counselor and I personally feel that the more you restrict the more you tie your hands So I really don't personally like the idea In fact, the reality is we elect once every year and We continue to do that and that's what I said. I was just yeah I wasn't we we can elect whomever we want to so we can have continuity. That's a choice, right? Dorothy I Think we're kind of winding down on this But when people talk to me about the council they say things to me Which I'm sure they say to you Which is they're aware of how hard we're working? They're amazed at how hard we're working. They don't complain about our decisions. They wish we didn't spend so much time on process I mean they really do talk about that and they talk about our long meetings, but the fact is we've done very well and I but I think now it is a special time It is that our first year and it's been some incredible crazy year that we can think about Kind of spreading things around a little bit more and equalizing the load and I see that that's One of the things behind some of the committee suggestions which I Was a little surprised by so much is going on that I'm often quite surprised by what has happened until I you know get my packet and I say oh my god There's been a lot happening here, but I think we keep on top, but I think we have to keep fresh We've got two years more in this sprint And we've got people who are begging us to run for reelection because they're afraid that we've done The job has seemed so hard that no regular person will want to do it So we have to make it easier and look like we're having more fun All right, I wouldn't I want to point out that we had yes one of the things that I was afraid of when we started and Was that the vice president and the president would you know have more power than everybody else? I don't feel that and I particularly am getting that cleared away even more by listening to you working together as a team And seeing what is meant what are Mandy Joe's strengths being utilized by another strong woman who brings her Is you know her issues and her concerns and her strengths? But any Two people working together Form a team and if Mandy Joe weren't vice president this next time around a new team would be established If Lynn weren't president this next time around a new team would be established We need to stop being afraid of the team as long as they're listening and responding to us Any other comments? All right, I would like suggestions at this point We have the following items some of which may still take a bit of conversation the town manager's goals The amendment to the rules of procedure rule 10.5. I do not see that as a big discussion item and I also understand that in order for Oka, thank you to proceed they would like this ruled on the master plan Mandy Joe and I did discuss this in advance and she promises that it would be just an Introduction and it would only be for the purposes of making sure we understand what's discussed and the next time We'd have a more full discussion The proposed reorganization of standing committees governance organization legislative committees, etc first discussion That is not going to be short We can take it on tonight or not Proposed committee liaisons. This is really just the issue of which one's not who right? Okay, and then at midnight tonight I'm no longer president Mandy Joe's no longer vice president unless you decide to have an election Which you can have for one more week or for one more month or whatever you want So can I ask are there suggestions as to things you feel we could delay until the 27th of January? Evan So two of these items are from Oka, and so I'll speak to them Rule 10.5 each absolutely needs to be done tonight. Yeah, that cannot wait liaisons, I think As far as I'm concerned, there's no pressing need for us to decide this and so I Don't the committee hasn't discussed the timing of this but my personal belief is that there's no rush on liaisons. Okay other comments Andy We can we should try and finish time manager goals before the years up. I Just don't know why you're saying that we're only halfway through Okay, others Yes, George the the GLL discussion will take up a fair amount of time I would like to at least have something to say about tonight that perhaps we would be wise to postpone it for A time when we have more time to give to it But I think something should be said before we leave this evening. Okay, that's really not something that's pressing And we take a fair amount of time. Okay All right with that in mind with the managers decided to leave the room anybody have anything to say about the goals Let me just let's go on to the goals The and I guess what the committee wants to know is whether you're going to send us back yet again we Had a discussion about the goals last time we asked All council members to give us any feedback about the goals individually which they did to me I Collected those in a manner that you see on a very messy sheet of paper with lots and lots and lots of notes to the side It includes everything we were given Six counselors weighed in the committee then met on January 2nd and Again went back to trying to keep it to the rules of what's doable. What's measurable and Particularly in this time frame and they came forward with a recommendation of goals That is also included in your packet. So We could have another discussion about those goals. We could have you give us additional information about those goals I will tell you that We tried to at least Do what we could but where when it got to the point of being too detailed we also felt that that got to the point of being more of a checklist and not necessarily a Goal of giving the town manager and that particularly was true for The economic development so we included an economic development goal, but we made it very broad So it does not it did not include the detail at level. So with that in mind, let's have a general discussion Yeah, Evan. So I want to first thank the committee for their work because I know that it's hard to take 13 counselors individual ideals goals priorities and try to come up with a Document That said I will personally say that I was fairly disappointed in the final document that I saw And there there are two places where I really want to express some some fairly severe disappointment. The first is You know, there are some fairly meaty issues in front of the council today GOL provided us a report OCA provided to report CRC provided a report the inter municipal CCA task force provided a report all of which Describe the decisions and the deliberations We're being asked to vote on a fairly big document that has no accompanying committee report We were provided with all of the comments And what I'm seeing here is there are many comments in the vast majority of comments We're not included in the final document and I have no idea why because there's no discussion of the deliberation Specifically Mandy Joe had some very specific questions They were asked about some of these that were never addressed or answered and I don't know if they were I'm assuming they were discussed But I don't know what the answers are and so, you know, I know when Speaking from the perspective of OCA when OCA asked for counselor feedback and received it We provided the council with nine pages of responses with a response to every comment every question asked So that people knew that their their comments and their feedback were actually considered and why or why not Or why they were or were not included having not had that I don't know how I can vote on this document because there are unanswered questions And I have no idea why some things were considered and one some weren't so For me personally, I won't vote on this document tonight because I don't know why these decisions were made The second area of disappointment was on economic development Which I had raised last meeting as something that I would hope would be divided into its own section And I was happy to see that it was and then I read the actual goals and found them to be rather pitiful and milk toast And I don't know what we heard from the town manager Last time when I believe it was Pat who asked sort of his Opinion of these goals and Paul gave us a very diplomatic answer That said that his his preference to see goals that are specific and measurable Where what divides a checklist versus a specific and measurable goal I think is tough But suggest other ideas or actions with potential for Amherst is not specific. It is not measurable It is nothing it says absolutely nothing. It gives the town manager no guidance I don't know how I can ever evaluate that assess the need for an economic development committee Don't know what that means and in all of the comments. I saw I never saw Economic development committee, so I'm not even really sure where that came from And I already know Paul's opinion of an economic development committee, so that'll be easy for him and then there was one thing that was just basically carried over from the previous one and so I Am happy to see an economic development section. I wish it actually said something because it doesn't then I'm looking at The the things shallen and I both presented lots of recommendations for an economic development section Perhaps some people felt they were too specific. I think some of them weren't that specific and I don't think some of them I think some of them were very rational including things like meeting with the university about how to leverage Technology transfer in their capital things about figuring out marketing and working with the economic development director I don't know why they didn't get in here because there's no report But to me what this says is we're going to pretend that economic development is a priority But it isn't because we have some fairly detailed things about other things and yet nothing about economic development This is not an economic development goal section Jesus Let me just say I feel that we do owe you a report and maybe the best thing is for the committee to just go back and meet and do that and Look again with a little more time to the economic development section Kathy Pat Darcy you were the other person at the meeting, right? I have Thank You Evan That was wonderful. I Want to go to section one be Determined financially sustainable strategies to meet core services needs to meet core service needs in all departments and in this final document it waters down the fire and EMS Provision which originally in earlier drafts said assess need develop plan and Take steps to address fire and EMT Stapping and now it's review operations of the fire and EMS to assess need for all services and determine Appropriate staffing level level doesn't say anything about Really creating a plan a plan is not putting it on your wish list in the budget In case money falls from the sky it is really developing a plan and and that addresses the fact that We do not have adequate staffing Okay listen, so from the very minor point that for example something like Continue the transition to the new form of government remains in here, which makes zero sense to me because Like that's like saying come to work in the morning. I mean I have no idea how we would evaluate that He's gonna write up some paragraph and his thing that says I keep working on the transition like what we've had the transition It's done anything that we missed anything that we didn't do because you know We didn't have a chart that told us what to do Anything that we missed he can add on is look we did this thing great and again not having a report that says why That has to remain in there. I don't know. I'm going to just Hypercritically go back to what I said when this whole thing came up. You guys have spent a ton of time on this why I Said have one person sit down write the goals bring it back to the group We'll all throw all our spaghetti at the wall and we'll say yep No, yep, nope, and it'll be over you guys have met like a million times You don't have time to go write another report that explains all of this just we have the thing with all the notes Which is really cool. Somebody put all that together. Thank you. That's like a report Let us send you some edits and just get this over with because I Don't really want to read a paragraph about why somebody thinks it's essential to and continue the phrase Continue the transition to the councilman. Whatever man like just cross that out and I'll get something else. I want or I'll get the fires Thing that's in there. These are things that we have to be able to have an evaluation instrument for If it doesn't make sense for an evaluation instrument, it doesn't belong in here We can have like a like a prologue or something if we want to do that in terms of generic ideas But this is this is not just goals. This is a performance evaluation. This is the performance evaluation We don't know what the Forms gonna look like but that's what this is. So let's just Dorothy I Could see doing that, but I'll tell you my objective. I thought it was I really did not like the evaluation system I thought it was micromanaging. I thought it was actually demeaning and it was just a checklist of do this do that do this Do that and I thought what person can actually do all of those things do them? Well and and maintain sanity So I think that if we want to all do what so let's just suggest fine But understand if it ends up being like the last one with a thousand things that are impossible to do It will not it'll be a useless document other comments So this is what I've heard you want one more round of comments and edits you would like a written report that tells you what the committee discussion was and Then there was a specific comment on the goal with regard to EMS fire and a specific comment on the overall economic development and The final one was on the very last one Relationship to the town council D Feeling like it was should just be eliminated Are there any other comments or feedback you'd like to give us at this point or wait until you do it online? Andy I'm not going to actually respond to any of the comments were made because if we start getting going down that path we're going to be here all night and You know, I didn't necessarily agree with everything I heard but I appreciated hearing it and I think that we just have to if those are the key things find a way to just send emails to the president and Over it he or she may be and let's and then they can balance out the Various comments received and make judgments is how to go forward. Okay anything else All right, then let's move on to D Which is the second reading and it's an amendment to the rules of procedure rule 10.5 H regarding public comment on special meetings George so You have the document In front of you. I hope There's really only one change. We talked about it last time. We want to insert the word regular in item H So would be regular meetings of Would be right, so I have nothing to add to this we felt that the In the report that I've given you you have the rationale spelled out a Regular meeting was understood by the committee to be any meeting which is listed in that committee's yearly calendar And so we didn't feel that was a particular issue And I think you all understand that the the reason behind this Is to allow The chair at a particular Especially called meeting that involves interviewing applicants gives the chair the opportunity or the right to simply not have public comment It doesn't mean you can't have public comment at a meeting, but it simply gives them the option. So That's what you have in front of you that really has been any change to it This is the second reading the rationale is in front of you So what are people's thoughts is there a motion Kathy? I Are you making a motion? I just have a question if if this change is mainly Because of the interview process right, why wouldn't we just say committees meetings except for meetings to interview Shall I think the the issue was to make it as generic as possible which therefore it applies to all committees so that they're when a regular committee when a It allows the this the committees to have the same parallel language as the council has Special meetings of the council do not require public comment Okay, because so we have accepted this we don't have public comment and special meetings special meetings of the council do not Require it. It doesn't it means we can have it, but it doesn't require it And this makes this language parallel Okay, and any committee that's holding the special meeting can decide not to have public comment and an ad hoc committee Could decide to not or do it or are they Do ad hoc committees have regular committee meetings, you know, I'm just trying to figure out are we You know, how broad is this if we make this change? So does that mean an ad hoc committee of public comes we could say no public comment So I assume this applies to standing committees only Randy Joe so and the charter only requires regular council meetings to have public comment That's so it's not a rule. It's part of the charter, which is why in council meetings It's only regular council meetings that are required to but I wanted to address the other one CRC's got an a retreat scheduled for February 3rd Where we're basically just going to be discussing a whole bunch of stuff without any business Going on and it might be nice for CRC not to have to have Public comment on the agenda at that extended meeting. So if you made a change that was more specific to only appointments that Wouldn't allow CRC to not put public comment on that And in fact as the meeting is currently drafted it has public comment It likely will not if this amendment goes through This is broader. I mean it was written. We need the urgency is because of interviews, but it's meant to be broader That's correct. Are there other comments on this, Alyssa? It's definitely meant to be broader It's definitely meant to apply to both standing and ad hoc council committee That's why it's in this section. It is supposed to parallel the charter as I said last time There is no definition of what regular means George is assuming it means that you already published a list of your meetings But nobody's required to publish a list of their meetings. So regular can mean anything I would say let's go with it broad for exactly things like a retreat exactly things like interviews If it turns out that people are saying seems to me that such-and-such council committee is only having these special meetings And they're not having any public comp then we can reevaluate, right? Darcy so when I look back at the last year we had 17 special meetings Most of those were I would call them orientation meetings for the council We did a lot in that very first month or the second month of January During January, we probably had four or five Orientation sessions which we called special meetings because basically we were just listening to fire tell us about fire EMS. I Just worry about I'm making the default No, you know no public comment I'd rather be specific about I think my understanding I think what Alyssa has said is If we feel that we're hearing G, you know, all they ever do is call special meetings. That's a problem but if you know if a committee has Ongoing regular meetings every Wednesday at 8 30 and there's always public comment then They decide that committee decides to have a retreat and they decide not to have public comment It doesn't mean it's not a public meeting It's a special meeting. They decide not to have public comment That's what you're trying to allow for I Guess I would just air air on the side of having public comment on Just about any and just about any meaning so Yeah, I was thinking about it ever since it was in that mass live article. I Don't know if you all saw that But I Would air on the other side of just having public comment In all situations Okay Additional listen if I could just pipe in one more time about retreats. I hate retreats in case anybody didn't know that I didn't know Hate hate hate hate them, but I will tell you that if you have public comment at a retreat because been there done that It's it changes the tone of the entire retreat You might as well just go at that point because you can have somebody come in and completely derail and everybody's just like You know, I was giving up a Saturday for this so it's not necessary and Absolutely regular meetings are public comment We all expect that all of our regular standing committee meetings do have public comment It's just that we're trying to give ourselves some room here. We can always pull it back if we need to Are there other comments on this Pat? I just want to say that you can have a special meeting It can be a retreat and you can say I'm going to have public comment, right? So it doesn't rule it out It just rules it out for a group that doesn't want to have it that time it allows you to rule it out It doesn't mean you have to rule it out All it does is allow you to rule it out. Are there any other questions or comments? All right, George the motion here to make a motion. Yeah, I Move to amend that we amend the town council rules of procedure rule 10 H by adding the word regular so that the rule reads Regular committee meetings shall provide for a period of public comment Is there second? So just 10.5 h. I think it was just missing the five Yeah, 10.5 point 5h 10.5 Okay, friendly amendment to second it. Okay, any further good discussion? All those in favor raise your hand and say aye opposed Abstained one opposed so it was 1110 Okay Master plan Mandi Joe just give us a sense of what you're trying to accomplish here and we'll have a further discussion next time so yes on The 18th of November the council voted to direct the CRC working jointly with the planning board to recommend a process for Updating and adopting the master plan in accordance with Charter section 9.8 That process is located in the memorandum dated December 18th to the town council Starting on page 2 and going to page 3 the end of the page We have talked to the planning board. I attended a planning board meeting We have received feedback from the planning board on this process I requested of the president that I be allowed to present it tonight because it requires two discussions and the planning board has Indicated that they really would like some guidance formal guidance from the council before really delving into it And and so if we did not start the reading period here, we would be delaying it even farther And so that's why I requested it the process really tries to just follow the Charter requirements So it does say the one thing I will point out, you know is sort of number one and two The CRC is recommending that we do not just adopt the Amherst master plan as is That we we as CRC voted to recommend that it be updated Prior to the town council adopting it one of the options was to recommend adopt as is and then we'd be done We would have fulfilled our Charter requirement But CRC did not believe that was a viable option at this time a decade after it was approved by the planning board And so number two talks about what CRC is recommending the town council essentially request What updates and we came up with a wording of? Necessary and obvious This is not an intention to recommend to the manager and the planning board that this be a wholesale revision or a Thorough real big rewrite. This is really an intention to say, you know, it's been ten years There's probably things the towns adopted that might need to be included in the master plan now the change of governments happened maybe we can update some references and One of the things staff kept pointing out to CRC was sustainability is probably not as Present in the master plan as it could be Including some of the language that was used ten years ago is not always used nowadays relating to sustainability and climate change and new language has been adopted and so that could be updated and Beyond that the one big request we got from the planning board from our initial Process to this process was that we move the Council comment period and the CRC referral So when the CRC discusses what to recommend on to whether adopt to adopt the master plan to before the Planning board approves the amendments formally It creates a little weird thing of they we would provide that feedback so that it happens if they if we're requesting any changes prior to their initial approval and So that when it comes back to us after approval per the charter There may not need to be any changes. We may have already requested all of the potential changes We want as a council and and so that then we can sort of Streamline the once they approve it to our adopting it process and and so that's outlined sort of in essentially number four and five and The charter is written such that we as a council have to hold a hearing After the planning board approves the master plan So despite doing much of the review by the council before the planning board approves the master plan There will still be one public hearing after the master plan approves it because of that So that's the reason there's that one thing in there And then the adoption I'm happy to try and answer questions or let the committee field questions if they feel it I tried to put as much into the memo as possible on our thinking and you guys will see it in another three weeks potentially for a vote are there questions Yes, Alyssa as someone who served on the committee for a very long time including nearly three years as chair of What eventually got sent forward to the planning board. I have a vested interest in that document and Thousands of hours hundreds of people were involved well beyond some people cherry pick and talk about surveys And there were other many many other ways of inputting I really like the very basic approach you're taking from the standpoint of let's update like the really egregiously bad things and Let's leave the rest alone. And so I'm please encouraging us. Please. Let's not try and micromanage the master plan. It cost us Over a quarter million dollars to develop that master plan. I'm not saying that means we need to keep it like it's perfect No, not by any stretch, but before we get into a whole nother process Let's do this basic update and then say, okay, this is what we've got now. What's gonna need to be fixed later I think that's a really good approach. It kind of meets in the middle Further comments. Yes, Kathy. I just had a question Mandy I also liked this approach a lot and as the planning board is coming up with the Necessary and obvious or the essential and obvious that They'll have a working list in your timeline Before they come up with a final list if the timing on that Comes to when we have to do an annual hearing an annual discussion It might be useful to think of that preliminarily working list is is part of it even though it's not final so people have an Initial insight of what that list might look like before they see it in final So it's just a two-step knowing that we're not voting on it So I couldn't I wasn't sure from the timeline whether you envision that but it seems like a nice way for people to say oh I see and I'm not sure why that's necessary or there's another obvious one that you could just pick up some things And I see the planning board is also doing hearings So I'm thinking I'm not trying to create extra work But if we have to do one And we have to do a forum might as well work that into it Comment I Don't know that it requires one. Okay. Any other comments on this? Okay, then this will serve as the first reading We will then move to a second discussion of this and the planning board has asked the town council to basically Have a motion and agree that this is how we're going to proceed and I have to say I have just deep respect for the planning board and Understand their desire to be in sync with our it our Desires as well. So with that, let's move on to The proposed reorganization of standing committees George for JOL so You have two documents in your packet one of them is the memo to you from the chair which describes in some detail What we're proposing and some of the rationale behind the change proposed changes You have a much more elaborate a set of documents in an item called JOL standing committee restructuring proposal So those are the two principal documents that You should have in front of you or at least they want to reference in my comments, I try to give the Council a sense of why we felt this was something we should do as a committee and so The essential points are made here We felt that the current Committee division is not working as well as it should here. It simply says it's not working that may be a bit too strong But we felt that there was something that needed to be attended to and so that's what we spent the time that we did it almost three meetings To try and think of a way that might be better And so that's this is a proposal to you to get you to think about it. That's all it's not a done deal It's not something that you know, it's just a way to get us to rethink after one year Could we restructure our standing committees? In a way that might make them More efficient and better certainly there was a sense I think from the committee as a whole that the current CRC charge is simply not sustainable And so that was one driving factor the idea that the workload did not seem to be accurately shared and I think also the sense that for a large number of counselors there was a sense that They didn't have access to some substantive matters that they'd like to delve into So that's kind of the general sense of why we took the time to do this And then in the document that the memo I list out seven Sort of goals that we used to guide our discussion And so in a sense looking at what we propose you would look at those and say well does do these do anything or not? Maybe they don't So very briefly what we are proposing are three things one is to move audit to finance and hence That would be the end of the audit committee break CRC into two separate bodies tentatively called CRC and what's called TSO and Finally to move appointments to GOL and dissolve OCA and so for each one I've given you a certain rationale And you might want to have some questions briefly. I don't know the chair the president will decide how much time I really want to spend on this tonight One other point simply is that what this does accomplish or what one good thing I think Instead of 23 Appointments that currently are made to the the five standing committees You would now have four standing committees and there would be 20 appointments So it reduced the number of appointments by three and The division of CRC into two bodies The hope was that this would actually give more counselors a chance to sink their teeth into substantive matters And it may be also give us a chance to think a little more proactively And not just reactively. So this is just a proposal The hope was that when you if you did open it up in your packet It sounds like some of you had it had the desired response, which is like whoa What's going on here? And that's really what the point of it was it's not that you know It's just to get you to think about what we've had a year of experience under our belts Could we revisit our structure in a way that would make us a more efficient body make us a body that would allow us Individually more opportunity to address substantive matters So that's the basic rationale. It's a proposal and You know it may sink in the next five minutes But the thought was just to get you to think about it and I think this is the first stage in a process What we're proposing could be done the stages. It could be done not at all It could be radically revised. You could just throw it in the trash But we've worked for no, we've worked very hard on it, but it's a proposal And we thought it would be worth your time to Think about it Thanks, George. Are there any initial questions of clarification or Are there items or issues that you would like the committee to be prepared to expand on? Further next week are Excuse me on the 27th. We're not meeting next week Sarah I don't expect it. This is just something I'm flying to have GOL think about Remember I talked about all this redistribution of power and Also, I think that GOL has a great goal of trying to make sure that we run more efficiently Another thing they said was that you know, you want to try to make sure that that each every counselor has something meaty to Be addressing but the same time we don't want to over burden counselors And I just had this idea that they can kick around Would be breaking up the appointments So just initially what I was thinking is that GOL its rules and governance Reviews charges of committees I was thinking that maybe it would make the most sense for GOL to have the Recommendations to town council for town manager appointments The first part of CRC, which I think is just still called CRC is going to be doing a lot of looking at planning and zoning and I know that when we were when Oka's doing appointments one of the complaints from planning and zoning was that we didn't really know what they were doing And I think that this committee will be so honed in on what exactly the planning board and zoning board of appeals is doing That perhaps we might want to consider having those recommendations coming to town council from CRC and Then Okay, so then the second and I'm sorry I keep forgetting to the TSO Is dealing more I think with like town council and public interface interface Things that have to do public services services and so I'm I was thinking that perhaps that that committee Might be dealing more with things like department heads and sort of like saying hey like this is coming up so maybe maybe just the Reviewing and recommending to town council the town manager's appointments to department heads You got those okay other comments Alyssa so in the interest of transparency Oka discussed this for the first time Substantially today had a brief discussion about it with some members missing prior I just want to be clear that Oka didn't discuss this at all before this proposal was floated and when Oka gets I'm gonna say bluntly gets kicked around at this council on several occasions over the past several months and then is Proposed for dissolution and yet Oka has not actually discussed it before it gets flowed to the rest of the council It's a bad feeling So this morning I was told it wasn't a proposal of course. It's labeled a proposal I I don't know why we want to ban these semantics on that. It's an idea That's great And there is a lot of merit to it and I really as I said this morning I really appreciate the level of detail that's trying to say well if we split it this way Then this would go here and this would go there I mean there's been a lot of thought put into this and I don't disagree that we might want to do a huge Amount of it and I appreciate the idea that we might also want to do it in stages and For example, we want to get through like you know appointing our next planning board member before we do this But I would say that the next time we talk about restructuring our committees Let's make sure some of our committees get to talk about it amongst themselves before it gets put out to the Whole rest of the world literally to talk about because I feel like I should have agreed or at least Lost a vote on whether or not Oka should be disbanded before it was brought forward to the entire council that Oka should be disbanded Process. I know everybody loves that. There's Are is Oka meeting between now and the next time the council meets? Yes, this is not on the agenda Oka did discuss it this morning and so it Also, I'm sure will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the critique was that Oka didn't have a chance to discuss it before there was a Proposal sent to the council before it was on a council agenda for which I take responsibility as both chair of Oka And also as a member of GOL Okay, so I guess the question is going to be will you be able to add it to your agenda? It will not it will not be added to the next two weeks. You're done. Okay Yeah, George would audit like to speak about their demise and CRC CRC got split into two. I mean, it's just to get us thinking so Pat I'm as the chair of the audit committee Audit committee is really not a necessary committee an audit is and it does fit very Comfortably in finance and that's where it should have been from the beginning. So I have no problem I don't think any of the members that were right here the three of us have any reasons or try to hold on it To it as a separate committee Dorothy We in fact discussed this at a finance meeting. All right, so that didn't surprise me But I was I will tell you shocked and I thought oh my god. What is this? This is a coup What's going on that that we did not know CRC did not know any of these things I mean when I look at it now, I can see a lot of sense in the proposals So I'm not saying I don't like the work that was done I'm saying I really felt that something sneaky was going on and I'm sure you didn't mean to but that's what it Felt like and so the only thing I'd quibble in CRC at this point though I do really like Sarah's suggestions regarding appointments is that I Still feel maybe we can share public ways because we've called ourselves a quality of life committee And I will tell you public ways or at least some aspects of public ways are very important to some of the things that CRC does so I Guess we talk about transparency. This wasn't very transparent Kevin I Have a suggestion for when we come back to this next meeting You very nicely both In a general way talked about a potential new division and then you wrote charges for each of these committees So I I saw that the GL now has specific to its charge Which you didn't before an annual review of committees, you know, you know, so it was You know, it wasn't a specific thing assigned to it before but I think it's a good idea You know that some because we said the council shall review our committees every year that so someone's doing it and I when I went to the Sir the new committee the TSO to TOS Maybe we can maybe we can make it a little bit a little jazzy or but anyway, it's hard to say a toss but I Wanted to know is parking there is If we have issues with the way public services like fire or Public works are working because what I've seen in some other towns with committees like this. They mention those You know, so it's not clear to me what issues so just trying so my suggestion is that we all Take a look at the draft charges as well as where Sarah was Resplitting some things thinking in terms of do we like the way these look as well And then the only other Comment I have on committees more generally is way back a year more than a year ago in December we made some decisions such as JCPC has two from finance and one from other places and Participatory budget has to have someone from finance and just if we I would like us just to revisit those and say we like them We're not Because it meant other people couldn't if you weren't on finance you couldn't be Participatory budgets, so were those good decisions or not good decisions. So that's not look at the other charges Yeah, I would agree with that. Okay. Yeah Andy I have a number of comments, but I think I've been a save a lot of them and find it in maybe just sent most of them to the committee because I think that they It's gonna be simpler and if we all do this tonight's gonna be long I Was a little bit concerned on the finance committee, of course, because we haven't had a chance to discuss it There was actually I thought something missing from the committee charge that should have been Included in the committee charge for the finance committee Some of the things regarding the suggested division Sort of that chart that has various Assignments to committees did not necessarily make sense to me in every every Circumstance, and so I think that was also a document that needs comment. I think that it's Good that we have a group that is working on this and thinking about committee structure because it is what is The core of how we work together effectively to bring things to the council We want to have committees make our meetings more effective by preparing us for the issues that are going to be before us and And So I appreciate that they've started this and that they're willing to continue with this and I will leave comments for later and Tomorrow we have our finance committee meeting I will mention it is business not anticipated 48 hours in advance, but I don't think I really want to discuss it at this meeting both because of time Because I think it really ought to be Any real discussion ought to be with the posted meeting. Oh, I also I'd like to Echo something and ask that are basically say George, would you please send a email To all town councillors that says says do not reply all Not for group discussion and ask for comments back to you in time for the committee to then use those comments Okay. Thank you. Dorsey. Yeah like to say that that I also had that sort of shocked reaction when I saw the the packet and The degree of detail that we received from GLL, which I know took them like a massive amount of time and discussion And so I want to come up with But it seems like If if GLL has in its charge Organization I guess I feel like the That it should be on Recommendation of the council Maybe that's not in the charge. No, but it seems like you know Maybe if we had an annual or every six months retreat That would be a topic that we could cover at a retreat and then Pass it on to GLL. Yes. We we think That it makes sense to divide CRC and or whatever But I I think that this type of reorganization a big monumental issue like that that affects the whole council and the town And all our constituents Really needs to emanate from the full group and go to GLL To have them work on it because they do a great job And I also just wanted to say that I'm not completely convinced that we need to dissolve OCA It's it almost feels like we feel like we have to dissolve it because we're creating another full committee and We don't have the capacity to have OCA and another committee but I I see the possibility of keeping it and Just having it be You know meet once a month just to do appointments, which is what eventually after we've gotten all our processes made That's all it will be doing So whether it's a subcommittee of GLL or its own committee I don't think you know, I don't really see necessarily the merit in Dissolving it. Okay. I did again additional comments can go to the committee Pat. I was you know, I'm just gonna say GLL did report if in previous reports in earlier meetings, we did bring this up I also feel like while I can hear what Darcy's saying about it everything should come from the 13 That's not how collaborative Interaction works. I think there are things that will come from the 13th But when a committee has an idea and they and it's part of their charge that working on that is a good thing where we failed is to be Clear and communicate it in its early stages, but I think it has to be able to go committees need to be independent As well as part of the council Okay Additional comments that people feel they need to make tonight on this or otherwise the committee will be seeking your comments and Will be brought back on January 27th. Yes, Alyssa Just a question to think about for next time is whatever your goal was in terms of us Potentially reorganizing ourselves into the existing committee structure except this might very well be a brand new committee structure So we talked about that right as at the year mark We would see you know people want to trade off what they want to do So I'm just wondering it as GOL thinks about their workload It would make sense obviously if we're close to making a change to not change our membership until that happens, right? At our last meeting when I believe I was elected for one month. I said that all committees would continue as present With charges and membership so That took us to tonight Yes, Evan So I'm just I just want to put forth some logistical questions. So it sounds like GOL is going to ask counselors to provide feedback on the proposal to consider GOL next meets this Wednesday January 8th and then the next scheduled meeting GOL after that is January 29th So unless we're asking all counselors to submit all of their feedback by tomorrow night It doesn't seem like we're going to be able to consider it on January 8th And then if we're not doing it till our next meeting, we won't have a proposal by the 27th So I we keep saying when it comes back on the 27th when it comes back on the 27th But I want to put out there that if we're soliciting feedback. It's not coming back on the 27th unless you meet it another time You're right. It's not going to come back on the 27th. Keep me informed as to what you plan. Okay They could have a special meeting with public without public comment, okay Are there any other discussions regarding that we have decided to wait on liaisons to? the 27th and There are no appointments and committee reports Pat then there's possibly to be defunct We're about to meet the last week in January with the Sonya and The procurement officer will be giving providing us an example of the RFP that we're going to be sending out Bylaw review Obviously, we're still in the process, but the committee has done their job CRC Mandy Jo you've given us nothing beyond what's in the report. Okay, town manager and council goals I guess we got our marching orders. Thank you Finance committee Andy Yeah, just real quick. We're meeting tomorrow, and I think that the three principal issues that we're probably going to be talking about is Trying to get to an end on the discussion of the affordable housing policy We may also reach conclusion on the financial implications of the percent for art and Sonya has Requested that we consider bringing to the council a series of financial orders, which for those of you who are familiar with town meeting We're fairly much like end-of-the-year closeout kinds of things that town meeting used to have to do and It's now council responsibility, so they have to arise through the finance committee. She's already sent us What she's proposing and we'll discuss that tomorrow, too And those would then probably come up on January 27th Yes, and I don't think that it's going to be a time-consuming thing because they are Really just essential housekeeping issues that town meeting always used to deal with without any Substantial discussion and expect that too Okay, George anything else from G. Oh, we will continue to work on a process for public ways requests to the council That will take up hopefully a good portion of our next meeting This is public ways requests that are long-term or permanent Right and that require town council action, right and particularly as they relate to public and to parking safety and roads Okay Outreach Oka. Yes, so Oka met this morning at which we voted unanimously to declare that the applicant pool For the planning board was sufficient to proceed to interviews. You may remember that was part of our adopted process So what that means is Oka is now going to be moving towards holding the interviews for the planning board So two things to relay to all of you first of all Can write this down those interviews barring some logistical challenge will be held January Wednesday, January 22nd at 6 p.m. I have confirmed that time with all Applicants who have confirmed to me their continued interest in serving I am currently working on some of the logistics of where that will be held The conservation Commission has this room so it cannot be held in this room that evening Other we rooms are in this building are perhaps too small Given that we will be inviting the full council and a number of people and perhaps the The public might want to show up So it's looking likely that it will be a room in the bang Center when I have a location confirmed I'll let you know but January 22nd at 6 p.m. Is when Oka will be holding these interviews Which means Oka has a lot of work to do between now and then one of the things we have a special meeting on Wednesday morning To do the interview questions and to adopt selection guidance So a reminder to all of you I sent an email last Tuesday and a reminder email I think yesterday that if you want us to if you have ideas of questions You want us to ask or it might not even be I want you to ask this question But just hey, I'd really like this information figure out how to ask a question any comments to help us come up with those interview questions Please send those to me by end of day tomorrow So that Oka can have that for our Wednesday morning meeting So at this point we are moving ahead to fill that planning board vacancy with interviews and we're putting together the documents For those just to refresh my memory. Is it one position on planning board currently? There's one vacancy on the plan. Okay, and two on CBA There is currently one on CBA. There will be another in March. We are not yet acting okay got it Thank you, Alyssa. I was just going to mention for the people who are compulsive like I am sure you're not Is that the interview questions that we used for planning board and CBA and finance committee before are in the town council May 20th Report it's a very long report so you can refresh your memory as to how we did it all the last time and the basic questions We asked then are in there if you want to remind yourself what we May 20th 2018 2019 it was it's in the board report for from Oka at that time. Thank you anything else Percent for by-law Kathy. I think you basically are now going through committee review Right finance has done a review and Andy's having me check the tape to make sure we voted on it Because that was my memory that we voted on it and so we will be reporting back up It was favorably received, but it also went the the revised proposal with a report also went to CRC So the instructions from the councils would go to those two committees then come back to the full council So the the finance end of it I know has happened because I'm on finance so I was there when it happened, but I don't know what happened with CRC Okay, so you're taking that up on Wednesday of this week I believe the original referral of percent for arts at once finance and CRC are done It goes to GL because it is a by-law Okay, so so would you like a copy of our draft report then Did the finance report Mandy or is it fine to have just the two pieces you've got already? It's up to you So, I mean I can consider it in but we'll be probably looking at different right Yeah, different aspects of the by-law, but if you if finance wants CRC to see it I'll I'll put it in the I'll put it in the packet So Mandy Joe with regard to CRC, please let me know if you'll be ready by the January 27th agenda I will do that once we have our meeting. Thank you. All right anything else on committees Approval of minutes There are three sets of minutes They actually cover two different dates, but actually three minutes and the Those meetings were December 12th 2019, which is a special council meeting. It was the state of the town address at the middle school December 16th 2019 was a public forum That was on the Kendrick Park and December 16th was a regular town council meeting so Do I hear a motion? Is there any discussion about any of these sets of minutes? Yes, Dorothy. I didn't get a chance to read them There was just so much stuff that was coming at the last minute And I was trying to keep track of whether I had which version or whatever that they just right couldn't do it And I had meetings today. Okay So your options are either to approve and trust that others have caught it or to abstain Okay, any other questions All right, then I could do I have a motion please to approve the minutes of December 12th 2019 special council meeting the state of the town address December 16th 2019 special council meeting public forum and December 16th 2019 town council meeting as presented Okay, so mood is there a second second. Okay, any further discussion? All those in favor set raise your hand and say aye. Aye opposed Abstain so I think you had nine zero three Eight nine, okay nine zero three, okay Mr. Backelman your report Just a few things so Friday is the next cup of Joe at Cushman Market with the planning director Chris Bress Drop on Wednesday, January 15th You've already agreed that there will be the reading of the Event for the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King jr. On the town hall steps at 4 p.m. That's his actual birthday The Martin Dr. Martin Luther King jr. Committee for Amherst, Inc Will hold its breakfast on Saturday January 18th at 9 p.m. At 9 a.m. At the middle school This Thursday leisure services is having its meeting on the Kendrick Park playground at the Bank Center at 5 p.m We are very pleased that we received a grant from the Volkswagen emission settlement Fund for a hundred and forty thousand four hundred thirty eight dollars Which we will use to purchase a new roll-off truck container for the DPW that runs It's actually for the solid waste fund and it's a regular It's deemed to be one of the most Best ways we could expend this money and they state awarded it with a large sum of money for us the East Street School we went out for an RFP to create affordable housing there There was one proposal that was submitted the subcommittee that or the Evaluation team that looked at it deemed unanimously that it was not responsive so we've rejected that proposal we will redo the RFP and go out again and because we still have interest in developing that parcel for affordable housing North Amherst library There was an appropriation previously to develop plans for renovations to the North Amherst library. We have come up with some Preliminary estimates for what it might cost and the reason I was moving forward on this is because we have Anonymous donors and others who are interested in Funding this project. I've been very clear that this is given all the other capital needs this project It was not a high priority unless it was funded entirely by private donations which And so the donors were saying well, how much are you really talking about? So now working with Coon Riddle We've come up with some Estimates for what it would cost to add bathrooms and a lift and then a addition The second piece of it would be to add a community a small community room as part of the development so now it's up to the anonymous donors and To see if that's something that they're willing to step up to the plate and really put the money on the table It's a large sum of money seven hundred fifty thousand dollars for the first part another two hundred thousand dollars for the room so There seems to be a lot of interest in making that happen privately and I think we'd be You know I would propose to the council that we would you would have to accept that donation if that were to be the case Solar on the landfill there was an issue with Another delay in that project, but we've worked with DPU and with ever source and understand where we are in the process It will it will delay the project, but not inhibit the project from moving forward. It may cause month to three months delay in addition to where we have been and That's it answer any questions. Yes questions. Let's see you had a question Yeah, go ahead and tell us that number on the North Amherst Library again Because we got told over and over again that it was only going to be a few tens of thousands and we said now I think you're underestimating So seven hundred fifty thousand dollars Forward to add the lift and the tube to restrooms in the reason it's expensive The reason is it's an iconic building is an older building. It's public procurement, which means prevailing wage has to be used and So it just inflates the cost and there's a lot of engineering work And there'd be some additional work that has to be done for the existing building some foundation work That would have to support it as well Thanks Dorothy Two questions has there been any serious consideration of moving the library to a better location? So it's not in the middle of a traffic island number one and number two with the private donations are they're going to be naming opportunities? No to the first I mean there have been a lot of discussions about the first thing, but that's never been seriously proposed And that'd be a major change from how we're doing business and on the second Naming opportunities have not been Asked for nor we haven't developed that process as far yet Other questions, yes, can I think okay? I have to I'll stay with the library As you know, I've been Trying to follow this so I know So my question is a bit about if the donor doesn't come up or the group doesn't come up with enough money for this My understanding is there's been some looking at could we put a ramp in could we make it accessible for a lot less money? Is there a point at which we would say the big project isn't a green light and Look at a smaller project. So that's a question on this one And then it's a similar it's a different issue completely, but on East Street school If we go out for the RFP and again don't get a bid that we think is what we wanted Is there a point at which we say? This isn't going to be this isn't going to be feasible and we Reconsider what we do with that piece of property. So it doesn't just sit there as unused and I just don't know I'm assuming that decision comes partly from the housing trust, but you know, do you give it another year? Do you give it another two years? So just your thinking without necessarily saying definitively. So on the first we The North Amherst library doesn't cost us anything to maintain and I'm it hasn't risen to a level of Priority and the chase in the capital plan to say we're going to invest money into that building So I think we have that on for in two or three years is a potential But I think we'll be reviewing that all through JCPC again this year so no there isn't a Backup plan for it at this point because it's serviceable as it is now it is not accessible it doesn't have breastrooms and To do a ramp of some sort We just haven't looked at that in detail In terms of East Street East Street schools lot that's been transferred That's really in the trust and it would really be up to the trust to make that judgment There are a lot of really smart people and developers on that who would help guide that discussion Evan So just following up on the East Street school and I don't want you to answer now because it's late, but I my understanding from conversations I've had was that The the one organization that did respond responded with a number of questions about whether a project there was even feasible some questions about wetlands Which when we were had with tonight talking about sort of the other affordable housing project That we dealt with in our first year. I thought well given sort of this new wrinkle in the East Street school Maybe it would be good to get an update Be with some more specifics than just in I mean we we made Valley folks come across the bridge to tell us what's going on with their project because it was taking a little bit longer than we expected I think we all expected the East Street school project to move along a lot faster as well I appreciated this update But it was one of those updates that actually caused me to ask more questions than to have more answers And I don't want you to have to explain it now because we're all tired But maybe in a future agenda, we always love saying that or we can we can write something to you Yeah, give you an update written. Yeah, okay Are there other questions of the town manager? Okay, then we're going to town council comments I Don't really have any special report to make at this point Regarding future agenda items besides all the very various things we've delayed until the 27th or beyond Are there any other future agenda items that people would like to make sure get on the list which we will be providing you? I'm still very curious to know how we're going to deal with the parking issue on Lincoln Avenue The way does not seem to be clear yet The Excuse me, I'll get it down GOL has been charged with coming up with a process That they will then bring back to the council As to how we would deal with Requests and or these kinds of issues that particularly affect our public ways in a long-term manner and are of high high interest to various populations around town And they're just in that process Okay, I Don't I thought I communicated that to the group, but maybe I didn't okay Anything else future agenda items other councilor comments Topics not reasonably yes No, don't worry. We're getting there Believe me Topics not reasonably anticipated There's tons, but it's not going to happen tonight All right, I'm turning this over to Athena who as our clerk of the council Runs the election for president. This is going to be slightly different from last time So I'm going to run through the steps First I will ask for nominations for council president nominations do not require a second Counselors may nominate themselves after each nomination I will ask the councilor nominated if they accept the nomination when there are no further nominations I will ask each nominee if they would like to make a brief statement I will then call the roll and each counselor excluding the nominees may make a brief statement on the election of the president I will then ask each nominee if they would like to make a closing statement before I call the roll for a vote Please state either the name of the nominee you wish to vote for as president or abstain At the conclusion of the roll call vote I'll now set the results the nominee who receives a majority of votes at least seven Yes, we'll be deemed elected as president if no nominee receives a majority of votes I'll repeat the process beginning with accepting nominations and then I will swear in the president after the election I'll now ask for nominations for council president Councilor Pam I once again would like to nominate Lynn Griezmer for president of the Amherst town council To the comments I made was it a month ago because it really seems like yesterday We're not we're not making statement fine Very good. Thank you Lynn do you accept the nomination? I do Are there any other nominations? hearing none Lynn would you like to make a statement? I? Said this last time, but I will repeat it again. It's been actually a Honor a privilege and a challenge to serve this Outstanding group of 13 people and I Think of it as something that where we all signed up not quite knowing what was going to what it would look like But a year later We probably spent more time with each other than we have with significant others children and otherwise We have accomplished a lot. In fact, I took the opportunity to Finally fill in the rest of this complicated chart which Mandy Joe developed for me using the charter and We are going to pass this on to Athena so that she can keep a record of Various things that we have to do every year and when we do them and Other than that If you so choose I would look forward to serving you again All right, I'm going to call the roll and each counselor can maybe may make a brief statement on the election of the president counselor Brewer I appreciate all the work that you've done. I appreciate your receptiveness to the Comments that were made tonight I was very frustrated that we weren't having that conversation And I was very happy that we were able to make the time for it tonight And I think that we all have learned more about what we expect of the role And I appreciate you being in it and I vote for Lynn Griesimer. Thank you counselor D'Angeles Thank you for your work counselor Dumont Lynn Griesimer, we're just making a brief statement. I'm voting for Lynn Griesimer Counselor Haneke just want to say it's been a pleasure working with you for the past year Counselor Pam I appreciate she still has a sense of humor Counselor Ross at times I have offered my critiques and they have always been well taken and I appreciate That and so I will vote for Lynn without hesitation, but do appreciate the conversation we had earlier Counselor Ryan We're in your debt counselor Shane I also want to give my appreciation including to when I asked for a delay on this The conversation with Lynn immediately after was Any ideas of how we can do things differently? How can we? Address some of these which I think reflects the way you've run everything all year long, and I really appreciate it So I vote for Lynn counselor Schreiber What they all said thank you so much thanks counselor Steinberg. I appreciate the incredible amount of thought and time in generosity that you've exhibited to all of us and I also Asked you to thank Ryan for his forbearance Counselor Swartz I'm really glad that we had the opportunity to just talk about things and just maybe set up Process and rubs off on me that we set something up, but I also would like to thank you for putting up with sometimes my Irish temper and And I know it's a shock. He never would have I know But I really appreciate, you know being able to have this conversation and your willingness to do that Would you like to make a closing statement? Thank you for your support. That's it Right now, and I'll call the roll for a vote counselor D'Angelo's Griezmer counselor Dumont Lynn Griezmer Counselor Griezmer Lynn Griezmer counselor Hanneke Lynn Griezmer counselor Pam Lynn Griezmer Counselor Ross Lynn Griezmer Counselor Ryan Lynn Griezmer counselor Shane Lynn Griezmer counselor Schreiber Griezmer counselor Steinberg Lynn Griezmer counselor Swartz Lynn Griezmer and counselor Brewer Lynn Griezmer That's 12. Yes, folks Gosh, I think it's Can I can I say something? Very briefly Yes, I Would say that true leadership comes when you're given a challenge, which is Sometimes a little bit unpleasant and you rise to it and deal with it. So I appreciate that Okay, I will ask for nominations for counsel vice president and We will do the same process. We just went through and I'll ask for Athena's assistant whenever we need to do through it go through the roll call Nominations do not require a second and counselors may nominate themselves and After each nomination, I will ask the counselor nominated if they accept the nomination When there are no further nominations, I will ask each nominee nominee if they would like to make a brief statement So let's start with that the floor is open for nominations Steve Sharp, I'll nominate Kathy Shane Okay Kathy do you accept I? am totally honored to be nominated and I'm going to decline because I Think at this time it would be good to continue this team, but I would like to leave open the idea that we could have a Change or some change in a third year So I would be honored to serve as vice president right now. I don't want to split us up. I think we need unity The floor is continues to be open for nominations Pat. I nominate Mandy Joe Hennikey for a vice president Mandy Joe do you accept the nomination? Yes, I do Okay, are there other nominations at this time? Okay, then we will I'll ask the clerk to call the roll And this is where each comment excluding Mandy Joe Gets each person each counselor Mandy can make a statement first. Oh, I'm sorry. Would you like to make a statement? So Similar to what Lynn said I would be honored and privileged to be able to serve again It was an honor and privilege to serve the last year I listened very carefully to the conversation we had earlier today I hope that over the past year. I've Shown my willingness to listen and earned your confidence and trust and I hope to continue doing so over the next year and Kathy that was very nice of you to what you said just now And I'm asking the clerk to ask each counselor except for Mandy Joe if they have a brief statement Counselor Dumont, I have really appreciated Mandy Joe's willingness to It's not really necessarily related to being vice president, but being able to be open to be working with all the different counselors especially me I Appreciate you helping with the with the motion tonight and and that wasn't unusual Mandy Joe's worked with me On a number of things and I really appreciate it so I Think that I'm that I Appreciate all that you've done President Griezmer. I'm sorry. Did you see me? I Think I'm going deaf. I know I'm going deaf. I Actually appreciate the comment about keeping the team together and There's often been times where I've wanted to be a little more Overly complimentary or outwardly complimentary about the things that Mandy Joe has done But I've always hesitated and I've hesitated because I didn't want people to think That it was a favorite but when somebody Takes the time to go through the charter and list everything so that I don't have to do that and When someone takes the time to talk to one of you about your motions or The many other things that Mandy Joe listed and probably some she didn't That's the kind of thing that I appreciate in a vice president And it's the kind of thing that I'm going to look forward to spreading among others Okay counselor Pam Well, I just want to say that I appreciate the hard work that you're putting into CRC and I look forward to working with you counselor Ross So Whereas I said I supported Lynn Griezmer without hesitation. I will be supporting Mandy Joe with one slight hesitation which is Watching the amount of work she has put into this and Her competency with that work Makes me who perhaps might be interested in the vice presidency in the future wonder if I could ever Live up to that and so I which I say complimentary but also with legitimate concern And which is why I think the conversation we had about spreading the workload around is is something that is useful But what I have seen is Mandy Joe put in a tremendous amount of work into making this council function Often as we learn behind the scenes doing things that I know I would not want to do and so I appreciate that counselor Ryan Man is someone that whenever I have a question. I know I can go to her with Confidence that I will get a thoughtful and helpful answer She's also an excellent role model for me as chair of GL I'm never going to reach those heights, but each day I try to emulate her What she's done Counselor Shane As a reflection of how closely I think Mandy listens when I was I Was actually asked if I was run and so I was Sounding out trying to figure this out And talking with you Yesterday late at night on both what you did and you were just so gracious when I said this wasn't going to be personal It was talking about rotating it made me feel even better about you continuing for another year and I Think what I said about teamness I I don't I would hope that none of us would just run for the sake of Seeing if you can get enough votes because even if you could get enough votes if we split up again Over these issues without a value added. It just doesn't make any sense so I think we should be thinking about the future generations a learning curve and Your openness to listening has been just a joy counselor Schreiber and To the alphabet you guys have said it all but thank you so much for your service. It's we're in great hands Counselor Steinberg Mandy, I just appreciate the amount of work that you do and Way that you approach the work Approach working with people and what you contribute from your background to your legal skills and knowledge as well as your experience as a member of the Charter Commission and How you effectively thought being Tagged with the name in our Parliamentarian to It really has been invaluable to this council Counselor Swartz Again end of the alphabet, but I'm very glad that you know there that you're there you're stepping up and that you Taken out in this role, which is daunting counselor Brewer Mandy Joe does a ton of work in a ton of different areas I am going to say again for the record because it makes me so popular That the charter work that she did in terms of making the chart that was the town manager's job He chose not to do that with the previous executive who asked him to do it He chose not to do it at the beginning of the change in the charter. That was something a volunteer I'm sorry $5,000 doesn't really go that far Had to take on because staff refused to do it And that's as simple as it is and that was a huge amount of effort and it was necessary for us to be able to get that done So I appreciate that it was a crazy thing to do, but it was necessary. So thank you for that. I Am unhappy with the team effect. I do feel it excludes the other counselors I don't feel there was any receptiveness to the comments that I made a year ago or the comments I made today and so I am Uncomfortable, but I know that Mandy Joe will continue to do a good job Counselor DeAngelis, I think you're a hoot That's what her husband thinks of me and I it's supposed to be a good thing you are a good thing You listen And sometimes you let yourself Be as vulnerable as you really are and I thank you for those moments as well as your intellect and your thoughtfulness and can I just say I'm I'm having a hard time With jabs at the town manager or Your opinion is frequently very important to me I have a lot of respect for you, but I think sometimes you're hurtful and it's not appropriate behavior We're going to proceed at this time with the election Roll call Mandy if you want to make a closing statement. Oh I'm sorry I keep forgetting Um, that's a lot to take in but I just want to say it was Humbling, so thank you Now the election president grease more Hanna key Counselor Hanna key Mandy Joe Hanna key counselor Pam Mandy Joe Hanna key counselor Ross Mandy Joe Hanna key counselor Ryan Mandy Joe Hanna key counselor Shane Mandy Joe Hanna key counselor Shriver Hanna key counselor Steinberg Indie Joe Hanna key counselor Swartz Mandy Joe Hanna key Counselor Brewer Mandy Joe Hanna key counselor D'Angelo's Hanna key Counselor Dumont Mandy Joe Hanna key Now you get the sworn in If there's no other business before the council I hear I would like to hear a motion to adjourn Dorsey said adjourn and George said second all those in favor I oh, I'm sorry Darcy. What would you like to say? I Just am interested to know where that process came just used For people's opinions We're the process the process for the election I'm just wondering because I've never seen an election run like that. It came out of last time's discussion Where people said they wanted an opportunity to make comments before we did the election and so the one of the several Adjustments that I made to the agenda was the earlier discussion about the role of president vice president committees And the second was to add that round in during this process. Yeah, okay Yes, let's not do it then. All right all those in favor I I opposed Thank you