 Hey real quick guys, Corecast is going to be a standard podcast that will be uploaded to iTunes. However, before we can do that, we need to have three shows in our feed. Until then, I'll upload them here. I just wanted to warn you guys that this isn't a video. This is Two Dudes talking about Core. Hello everyone and welcome to the first episode of Corecast, the show where we talk nothing but madeabuff and core. I'm your host, the one and only Mangus. Joining me is Nato Christo from Twitch, Nato, how you doing brother? I am doing wonderful, Mangus and Nato Christo in one podcast, is this a crossover stream? Team it up, team it up, I like it. So what we're going to be talking about today are some of the news and updates and then Nato has been collecting up suggestions from you guys on his stream. We're going to go over some of those and talk about what we like and what we dislike about him. How about we just drive straight on into the news? What news do we got for madeabuff and core? I know there's a lot of it, Nato. Yeah, so there were some pretty big developments over the past couple of weeks. The alpha that was supposed to come on the 27th, I believe, is actually has been pushed back with no real release date at the moment. So as unfortunate as that is, there's a very long post that Opolis made and I feel like although it's being pushed back, we are in the right hands. Just like Opolis mentioned in there from that quote, a bad game that's pushed out is always bad, but a good game that's delayed is always good. Something like that, I'm paraphrasing. That's a quote from Nintendo, yeah. Yeah, but it does feel like they have their priorities right. They knew that they weren't going to meet their deadline. They didn't want to give us a bad product. One thing I've been saying to people on my stream is just the game build that you and Briddick ended up playing before we did, the mid lane was a little wonky, the shading was really off, and then very shortly after we got access to it and everything was fixed, and then even then the day of some small things like the dirt was kind of off and looked like minecraft. A lot of people were complaining about next day that was fixed. You know, if those are any kind of small little good omens as to what's to come. It seems like they know what they're doing and Metabuff is in a good position right now. So, you know, it does feel like we're in the right hands and I'm very confident in what they're doing. All the power to them in that delay, you know, take as long as you need. Yeah, I think it's definitely a good thing. You don't want to rush the game out before it's ready. I mean, the map changes, that's one thing. Actually getting the gaming ability system down and having all these characters interact with each other the way they're supposed to is a whole another story, and I would rather they get some more testing internally before they release it to the public. One thing, this might be a little controversial, but I kind of hope that when they do release the alpha the first day or first week, whatever, I hope they release it under an NDA. I know that's going to break a lot of streamer and YouTuber hearts with me saying that, and I would certainly, of course, want to be creating content day one from core, but I think they need to keep it under wraps until they have it a little more fine tune because they're not they're not making core so that streamers and YouTubers can can get a leg up and get their career started. They're making it for the fans. We need to, you know, realize that and allow them to do what they need to do. So I really think that they should release whenever they do release their alpha, it should be an under under an NDA. Yeah, I really do agree with that, especially other alphas that are sometimes released. It's not always the best kind of first presentation of it. And it's unfortunate because that doesn't make the game. We've seen, you know, we're both gamers here, Mongoose. We've seen games start off from, you know, bare minimum, you know, almost nothing and really develop into these amazing, amazing worlds that, you know, we are very in love with. And I would really hate for core to step into that arena and end up getting really pushed to the rocky start in alpha. That would be that would be pretty disappointing. So I do agree. I think at least if they're going to do an under NDA, give us a good month or two as the community figures and, you know, the players, whoever has asked to it to give them proper feedback so they know, OK, this is what we need to fix phase two or phase three of alpha. You know, then we can start releasing NDA further for the streamers and the community figures and start doing that. But I do I do agree. I think right away, you know, as much as we're all excited for it, they do need to I think that an NDA would be good for them. Yeah. Right. Because they have no idea what's going to happen. They think they might know they can do their own internal testing. But once you get people boots on ground in the servers, play in the game, there's going to be some crazy shit happening that they have no idea what it was. They have no ability to forecast that. And that's what the alpha is for. And I would rather that people see the alpha in a more polished state than to see it before they're able to address those bugs. Right, exactly. And that's another thing that I've been going on to is from the sounds of it. You know, nothing's been totally confirmed. I did ask Opolis and Allo this at one point and neither have given me a direct answer as they so lovingly do to us. I was curious as whether the alpha, when it came out, it was going to be similar to like what Epic did when it just kind of never left alpha, which I don't mind, you know, that I think that's a perfectly fine thing to do to have us grow with the game, you know, go from alpha to beta to, you know, whatever the normal process is. But from what it seems like, it seems like once they give us alpha access, it's kind of just sailing from there, whether it's smoother or choppy, we're going to be on the seas of core. That's kind of the general outlook. So I think if that is the case, then, yes, we, NDA is perfectly fine, you know, as long as it's not going to be out for a week or two. And that's another thing to do about alphas. I think it's going to be good if they are going to do a timed alpha, they need to give us at least two months to really kind of test things, mess with some different additions that they put on. I don't think a week or like, you know, like a month, even a month, I don't think is enough time to really, really kind of mess with things. You know, so we definitely need a little bit of time with that. But like I was saying, it does seem like they are kind of holding off on that idea of once it's released, we're going to have access to it. For those of you who aren't tracking, Opholis is the vice president of Metabuff, one of the VP's of Metabuff. So if we say Opholis, that's who we're referring to. And Flores is somebody that helps out with Metabuff. He's on the team. Yeah, getting back to the late alpha, they set that date for the 27th and that was kind of a little ethereal in that, you know, from the beginning, when they first released that day, because, you know, it is a very romantic date. It's the it's one year after Paragon closed. That seems like a weird date to set for an alpha. Because like I said, you never know what's going to happen between the time you announce that till the time it ends. And I'm just glad they I'm glad they announced it well in advance to give people a little bit of a heads up. And, you know, if they would have just if they would have announced this on the on the 26th or the 27th, I would have been a little more devastated. But I've given us a little bit of a heads up, I think, is the best bet. And they did that well. Yeah, yeah, they handle that really well. And then even though even that day, you know, they were very active with us. I'm pretty sure it was that day, Opholis hopped in my stream, me and a pastor Jebediah, another community figure. We were kind of like co-casting one of my streams. And, you know, he came in, he threw me a host and then he DM'd music. Hey, I'm going to hop in. I'm more than happy to. And, you know, we kind of chopped it up. And it was really nice talking to him. And, you know, he had a lot of really good insight. And, you know, he gave a lot of good info. And, you know, you can you can really feel the love and the passion for what they're doing from all of these people. When you talk to them, you know, I'm sure you can, you know, you can definitely confirm this to Mongoose. You know, when you, you know, when you talk to Alo, when you talk to any of them, you know, you know, don't want to start dropping names here. But, you know, Opholis, Alo, those are the people that I have mainly spoken to. They're very much in love with us. They're passionate about their team. They're passionate about what they're doing. And at the end of the day, you know, they always want all of us to remember that they're in the same boat as we are. They loved Paragon, excuse me. They loved Paragon. They love the memories they have, you know, and they really are doing everything they can to bring that back. And it's all a big labor of love. And, you know, yeah, it's they're definitely doing the right thing. They gave us a good amount of time, you know, they did it early enough in the month where, you know, they let us know they were active in the community. They were talking to us, answering questions for us. You know, it's not like they, you know, announced the cancellation of it or, you know, the delay of it and then kind of just went silent. You know, they were there for us and talk to us, you know, doing things that not a lot of developers would take their time to do, you know, they already have a busy schedule. They got a lot of stuff going on. And I think it was handled very well, in my opinion. Yeah, yeah. I think it could have been announced a little earlier. I mean, they, they replaced FaZe and Quong. I think they probably knew at that time that they were going to have to delay the alpha because that is not enough time to prep Decker and Fing Mal. If Decker and Fing Mal weren't already being prepped, because there's a lot that goes in to bringing these heroes to life. Right. So I think they probably knew a little before now, but they were kind of, they were probably just waiting to kind of ease the blow by releasing the UI updates and some more, some more map testing keys and stuff like that. By the way, I kind of, this is another gripe I kind of have. I'm sure that there was community, members of the community that wanted Decker over FaZe. I'm sure there was members of the community that wanted Fing Mal over Quong. I don't think that's the real reason that they replaced those heroes. I think those two heroes, along with Revenant, who got replaced by Sparrow, those three heroes are extremely hard to implement. Even Epic couldn't implement them right in a lot of ways. And I think that's probably why they were, they got, they got pulled in favor of Sparrow, Decker and Fing Mal. I think that's probably the real reason. I wish they would have just said that, like just come out and say, Hey man, these phases, just the tether is just too hard to make work in time for the alpha. So we're just going to, we're just going to sub, sub Decker in. I think I wish they would have done that. But maybe, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm absolutely incorrect. Maybe it was, you know, a massive amount of the community complaining because they couldn't have their, their Decker booty. I don't know. Yeah. No, yeah. And you know what that, you know, I actually didn't realize that Quang and FaZe were replaced. I knew Revenant was, I guess I just wasn't paying attention enough, my obelisk is going to drop me now. But yeah, no, and like, you know, thinking about it, I could really see that being an issue, especially even alpha for any game, having abilities like Quangs where, you know, you have to be in the circle, you know, because like I remember in Paragon, it was a little iffy, sometimes if you were on right on the edge of his ring, you'd still get caught, you know, alphas are very kind of notorious for being kind of buggy and just, you know, straightforward and like no crazy animations in them. So like having a character that is, you know, anatomically movable as like a Quang throwing a sword and, you know, having the timing down and then like, like you mentioned FaZe doing the pull and Revenant with his lock on and all that. Like I do think that could definitely be a lot of work. I could really see how that could mess with an alpha or even just, you know, make an alpha feel weirder than it really should be. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, you know, it's obvious. Again, all speculation, but yeah, if that was something, you know, it'd be nice to kind of get an honest answer from that and be like, Hey, this is really what happened. You know, but you know, I am a firm believer of the transparency that they're offering us. So I'm going to take my face value for it. But yeah, definitely going kind of trailing back to what you said, I think around then they knew, I think they kind of had an inkling that it, you know, it wasn't going to work out and they were probably just like, let's just keep busting our asses. Let's see, let's give ourselves to fill, you know, early April and see where we are. If we're nowhere close, you know, then, then we can, you know, then we're going to have to delay it. But I think maybe yeah, I think they tried giving themselves as much time as possible. And you know what, too, you know, they're doing a huge service for all of us and they put a really, really short deadline on themselves kind of making, you know, a game from the ground up for, you know, for lack of better terms, amateurs, you know, making a game from the ground up that a triple like company was making, you know, I think games is not a small company, you know, taking, you know, filling in those shoes is definitely a big thing to do. So I think they might have bit off a little more than they should, but I'm glad they realized that and they're taking the proper time and, you know, they're doing the right thing now. Taking a little responsibility. Yeah. And they kind of eased the blow with the with the UI updates. Right. Get into talking about those, that UI update video. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. The UI video was, it was really impressive. Oppolist did mention a lot, most of that was pretty much just kind of like, like CGI video, but it was just like an idea of what they're going to have because he said pretty much that's what they're having. So that it looked really, really nice. I love the menu. I loved how the main menu looked, how it had like the store, like I think it was like a clan-like option in there too. Yeah, alliances. Yeah, alliances. Yep, that's what it was. Yep. And then they had the, like the footnotes for the updates and stuff like that. I can't remember the name of that right at the moment. The what's new? Yeah, what's new. Yep. Yep. Stuff like that. You know, they had a lot of really cool stuff on there. And then I loved when they showed the actual game modes, you know, they had two separate sections or three separate sections. Really, they had the competitive, their casual ranked, and I think they had like, like an all like trainings kind of based one. But, you know, and then they even already showed off options for other game modes, which was one of the ones in the ranked tab, I think it was, which was, I'm assuming, you know, they, you know, they've talked about wanting to do like, you know, you know, different types of games like you see in like, Smyter League of Legends and stuff like that and Dota, you know, they want to have different game modes, different, you know, eventually different maps and maybe, you know, to kind of fit those game modes. So I liked that they're already, you know, kind of following through with that. You know, they're not just kind of talking out of their ass and saying, yeah, you know, we're going to do different game modes and like, they're never going to show it. But, you know, it's cool that they're kind of owning up to that and they did kind of confirm themselves. So, you know, they kind of pointed the gun at their foot. So we're going to see if they're going to, you know, if it's going to fire because, you know, now that's kind of confirming, you know, now they got to do other game modes, you know. I think a lot of those modes, like you had the casual, you had the rank. I think the other mode was team mode, like five, like five players queuing up at once because I know they don't want four stacks. From what I've heard, they don't want four stacks because when you have a four stack, it's always that that fifth person's problem, you know what I mean? Yeah. Nobody ever was playing their friends. So it's always, it's always the random guys fault. Like this freaking rando over here doing this and that. They might be playing a perfectly good game, but if they're not on your team, it's their fault. And they want to avoid that, which I think is a great thing. Yeah, yeah. And I even like the extra little incentive. Again, I don't know. None of that is set in stone. But if you if you looked at it, if you remembered, it had the team, the team based mode, and then they had the solo queuing, the solo queuing actually would have, you know, from the video, if that was a real thing, you know, up right now, you'd get an extra little XP bonus, like an extra 10 percent or something, you know, kind of giving you that incentive to play that one, which is really cool. I like that a lot. Yeah, that's very nice. They did have the proving grounds up there, too, which I would assume would be some because they had solo queue versus AI co-op versus AI and then proving grounds. I would assume proving grounds would be some sort of testing map where you could go in by yourself and test things out, which I know happens to be much more difficult than you may imagine, because when you have server set up and everybody's playing on a server, you've got that server that you're paying for. You're paying for that server to host 10 players in a five on five match. If one person goes into that proving grounds, that's a separate server. Now you're paying the same amount that you're paying for that other server that's hosting 10 people. You're paying that same amount for one person to play on that server by themselves in that proving ground. Unless they've come up with a way around that, that may not be the most cost efficient thing. And we may not see those proving grounds until they're a little more financially stable. Hopefully they will be financially stable. That's another thing I want to bring up. I'm going off the rails here. I'm going off topic. Another thing I want to bring up is people say, you know, Paragon didn't make enough money for Epic to stay in business. What makes Medabuff think that CORE can make enough money for them? Well, CORE doesn't need to make nearly as much money as Paragon was for Epic, because Epic has investors that they have to Tennyson, that they have to answer to. In quarterly reports, Medabuff doesn't have that. Medabuff doesn't have the huge team that Epic has. And so they don't have to pay as many people as much money. So they can CORE can survive with a much smaller player base and much smaller income than Paragon did. So I think that's a that's an important thing to put out there because a lot of people worry about that. I don't think it's as big of a concern as you may believe. Now, what the hell is that talking about proving grounds? How did I go from proving grounds? I think I think you connected that because of the cost of server. Right, right. You've got a lot in your mind, Mongoose. But the one other thing, very interesting detail I saw in the character selection screen where you could pick your own skin or whatever on the left or right hand side. I guess it would be my left Gideon's right was core abilities. That was something they brought up in the proof of concept was having core abilities, which would function similar to relics and other like relics and smite. So it would be something that you would pick at the beginning of the match before you go in. It would be like a very high cooldown, high impact ability that was specific to you. So it does look like they still kind of plan to have those because it was in the UI. Didn't look like it was selectable, so it definitely won't be in the alpha. But that is something maybe we can look forward to if relics are something you enjoy. I know not everybody enjoys that style of play, but pretty cool stuff. I'm glad to see that that some of the stuff from the proof of concept is making it into the final product it looks like. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, this is kind of segueing our way into our main topic. But, you know, like you mentioned earlier, all the every, you know, everything I've been doing on my stream kind of getting suggestions from the community. I hear that almost every time I stream, you know, every every, like I'll say, like 10, 15, 20 minutes, I get someone mentioned maroon system from Smite and stuff like that. And so it's cool that that they do have that. And if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure. So me and a pastor brought that up to Apollos. And I think it like the way they want to do that it's kind of like their answer to do you remember in the old original Paragon builds, you could pick your OP buff card? Yeah. So I'm pretty sure that that's going to be that kind of that version. Like it's going to be something similar to that, like like you're saying, like a high cool down high kind of damage or high intensity ability or something, you know, some type of extra thing that you're going to be getting, which is going to be a really cool thing, you know, and like you're saying, you know, that's something that they had in the proof of concept. And, you know, they are obviously realizing that there are other mobas out there that are successful. And they're kind of, I think, looking at what makes them successful. And, you know, so far that's kind of that. If I had to say something that is the most popular that's mentioned on my stream so far, it's definitely that people are always mentioned the room system and how that kind of adds a lot of diversity to it. So if they're adding that and not only just adding that, but also adding the ability to kind of customize it and choose your own, I think that's really, that's a really, really fucking cool idea. Well, if they're going to, if they function similar to the prime cards that they would only be active during the prime buff, right, did they say that the core abilities would function like prime cards or was that just, I think that's something me and pastor were just speculating. I know we asked Oplis, I can't, I'm going to go back and I'll listen to my to my stream when I get a chance. And that's my vaude. And I know Oplis did answer that for us. I don't want to say yes, you know, because I don't want to say the wrong thing. I'm going to I'm going to say right now me and pastor were speculating about that. We did bring that up to them. I can't remember perfectly. We said, you know, I don't want to put anything in Oplis's mouth and, you know, kind of put anything out there without it being true. Strongly resistant urge to make a comment about putting something in Oplis's mouth. Let's move on to the map test. I think unless you had anything else you wanted to talk about for the UI updates. No, I mean, the only other thing that I saw in there that I'm like, oh, two things actually, when you watch the UI update, it showed all their stats. Obviously, none of that is set in stone. But one thing I noticed is there's no mention of character movements. I loved Mongoose. I hated the idea that as Twin Blast or Murdock, especially Murdock who didn't have any, you know, dashes or anything like Twin Blast did, you know, he had that little bit of a boost. I hated the idea that I could bop away a Kalari or a Chimera or someone and they could just walk faster than me. So I I love that everyone's going to be on an equal playing ground. If you know, if there's cards and stuff that are going to mess with movement speed, whatever, you know, I trust Metabuff. You know, I'm sure they'll talk to us about ideas and stuff like that. You know, they're very good about that, about being open and you know, with the community and us as community figures. But you know, if that's something they want to add in as cards, cool. But off the bat, I love that everybody has same movement speed. It's not even mentioned in the game. I love that. And then on top of that, we're also seeing a really cool Gideon skin that has never been shown before. That was the tough one. I think that is such a cool like a battle mage Gideon skin. Like I saw that I didn't notice it at first and Pastor made me rewind and look at it. And he was like, dude, that I've never seen skin. And I was like, oh my God, dude, you're right. Yeah, what a Gideon look like Tyrion Lannister though. I know. Oh my God. They need to look a little off to get you look a little off to you. He looked a little off to me. He did. I think that was because of the textures and the shading and stuff like that wasn't perfect because they just kind of put the character model in there from like, you know, from what they're the assets they got from Epic. Obviously, you know that that was just like a video proof of concept kind of video like that. So I don't think they put too much effort into shading the characters just for that. So but he you know, they did look a little funky and me and Pastor me and Pastor were very much stressed and that those are just not shaded properly. That's not going to be the character in game. Nothing else. Another thing I noticed is when they were they were choosing their heroes, there was no mirror matches. Once once the enemy team picked a hero, it was great out for your team. So yeah, yeah, I did see that. And then also I love that kind of like for honor kind of teams looking at each other kind of charging at each other. I thought that was fun too. You know, this is all stuff that they could literally never make it in the game, but I loved seeing it. The UI video, I think was really great. It was good seeing finally hearing something to you know, on top of us waiting for the alpha before it was delayed. It kind of felt like Metabuff was a little silent. And you know, I did voice my opinion to a couple of my friends that are that I'm friendly with on the Metabuff team that, you know, I was just like, you know, kind of like, you know, am I just not hearing anything or like, have you guys not announced anything? And you know, so it was nice to finally get a good information, really see not just like, Hey, we're doing core is a perfect concept, like a real first step, like, you know, we have the launcher now we saw a really like, you know, a rough draft of what the menu is going to look like, what we can expect. All that look, it looks really, really cool. I'm I'm I'm loving it so far. You're going to hate me for this, but I remember when you were talking about that in the discord, and I was actually sitting on the map like playing. I was like, man, they just gonna be so happy. Oh, man, I'm sorry, dude, I'm sorry. No, that's okay. No, that's okay. I get it now. And I'm up to date with everything. And I've had a few conversations. I'm up to date. I know what's going on. I understand why. And yeah, no, that was funny, though. That's funny. Speaking of the map, let's talk about the new map test, because I know you have been playing around on it and streaming it. I've been messing around with it a bit myself. So let's talk about our impressions of this new map. What do you think? Hate it. It's horrible. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. No, I love the map. I there there are things if I personally was making the map, I am have zero skill in it. And it would just be aesthetic. Obviously, everything that they have, you know, see if that you know that you have self and doing the numbers and their blood Mortias, he's working with them, right? Yeah, he's, you know, they're testing kind of like rotation times. And, you know, those are people that you really want on it, you know, so they have everything down everything in there, everything that's in there is there for a reason. Obviously, everything can be tweaked. The I love how the map looks. I love how it feels and plays. I love how it has a similar it has the only remnants of monolith that we're getting is the general shape of the map, which I'm okay with. I like how it's much bigger than monolith. It feels more it feels more open, but also there when it needs to be tight, it feels tight. You know, it's very clear where they want team fights where they don't want fights. I really like the freedom that they're kind of implementing in it. I like how you're being rewarded for being a vertically mobile character. But you're also not being not necessarily as punished for being a non vertical character. I do think that might be there might be some balancing they got to work out in there. But overall, I'm generally really pleased with the map. I love how it looks. I love how it feels. I love the two different sides at level. They kept that dawn dusk kind of thing that epic initially draw at the end, not initially Jesus that they kind of dropped in there. Yeah, it overall, it's really nice. I like it. You know, there's some things that I would want to change. There are some things that we've noticed in my streams that could be updated, but that's obviously a little aesthetic visuals that aren't as important for a functioning game. So what I want to talk about with the map is some of as far as the things that I like, there were some things that I dislike, but the things that I like were some really highly technical things that they worked in, especially with sound. You could definitely you could tell when you entered the jungle because you start hearing the birds were twerping the bird working, the birds twerking in the bushes. I love when birds twerk. But I mean, that was really cool. And not only that, but there was a Doppler effect to it. Like, it felt like like the sound changed as you moved around. And I don't know, did you find the minion that was making the sounds when you were jumping around on the map? Oh, yeah, I found like all like all fucking 12 of them. There's like two in each jungle. And then just to jump on that too, I'll let you get back to it. But if you I don't know if you were like really noticing, but it really there was a lot of dynamic in the sound like you see when you walk in the jungle, you know, it was kind of quiet at first and it got really loud. And then like you had the whooping of the like like the raven and everything. And then like in the lanes, you could hear like the water and stuff like that like kind of running from like the river in the center and like where they were kind of trailing on the edges. Like there was a there was a real like variety and noise. And like you couldn't hear that the jungle noise from the lane and stuff like that. Yeah, that's just something small I want to throw in there too. But go ahead and continue. Yeah, I mean, and that's something they plan to capitalize on overall. They they want to make the sounds in the jungle sound different like a howitzer explosion in the jungle will sound a little more muffled than a howitzer explosion in lane. I think that's really cool of them. And I like that. And it's going to let you sound whore a little bit. That's that's a big thing like Call of Duty and first person shooters is sound whoring where you know you listen for footsteps. And that's something you're going to be able to do. You're going to be able to hide behind a wall. Here those footsteps coming closer and closer and know when to jump out and engage an enemy and know you know how many enemies are coming, which is something we really didn't happen. Paragon and they're going to implement that in core. I think that is absolutely phenomenal, just an outstanding idea. The overall appearance of the map I thought was absolutely beautiful. It was a gorgeous map. And they had a lot of verticality, like you said. You know that verticality we got to take full advantage on with Kalari, but not everyone is as vertically inclined as Kalari. So a lot of people were saying that, you know, Kalari has an unfair advantage. Kalari is supposed to have a vertical unfair advantage right when it comes to Paragon. She did in in Model S. She did in Legacy and that's there for heroes like that to capitalize on. But yeah, because not to mention she has, you know, like maybe a max of like 60 health. So yeah, you want her to get away better. And really quickly on that too, when ever people were saying that, I would point out, I'm like, you guys all know how high Grey Stone could jump. Like every almost every window there might be excluding like one or two spots where only like Kalari and maybe Wukong can get through. But almost every window and every like every like fog wall up top of Fang Mao, a Grey Stone, a Chimera, if someone was up there, a Gideon, like everybody has like who has a mobility, can take advantage of those. But there were a couple extra ones that, yes, Kalari and like a Wukong can take more advantage of because they're sacrificing a lot more on other things like health. So it is completely understandable for them to have those extra advantages. But once I kind of pointed that out, it made a lot more sense to people that, you know, OK, this isn't just for Kalari. And the other thing too is just because a hero doesn't have verticality doesn't make them useless, crunch didn't have any verticality whatsoever. Yet he was an enjoyable character that was fun to play and was an effective character on the battlefield in monolith. And, you know, he didn't have any verticality and he did just just as well. It's going to be the same for core just because your hero doesn't have the same vertical movement as some of the other characters doesn't mean they're going to be useless. They're just going to be played a little different and have some different strengths. So a lot of people are very worried about that. I don't think you really need to be all that concerned. We really need to see some gameplay, though. We really need to be able to test this map in a PvP environment where we're actually playing against people to make these decisions. And I'm sure once that happens, there will be some more changes to the map. And if it is does end up to where the heroes with, you know, greater vertical movement abilities can absolutely dominate the battlefield, then they will probably change some things about the map or change some things about those heroes' verticality. So not something to worry about too much, I don't think. Yeah. And that's another thing to the people always need to remember is that what we're seeing right now is going to go through a lot of changing, a lot of testing, a lot of critiquing, especially from, you know, me and your me yourself and the other community figures because realistically of our position, we will be probably playing the game sooner than other people to give Metabuff those accurate, that accurate feedback without all the backlash from a majority of the community. You know what I mean? So like a lot of the stuff that you know, it's good that me and you were here. And then the thing I always stress out to my to my viewers is, yes, any ideas you can have, feel free to post it in the community discord. It's a great place to put it. But every developer that's on Metabuff is not going to have every second to go in there and every but there are so many people in those in those in that discord talking at different times, your idea might get lost. Feel free to dump your ideas on Mongoose, on myself, on British, on, you know, Ryan Red, on, you know, on another notch. Any of us that are streaming, if you're in our discord, if you're in our streams, let us know things that you like. You don't like things that you're worried about because we can either let you know what the answer is or we can pass it along to the right person without it seeming like backlash and unnecessary hatred from the community. And, you know, because the last thing that's the last thing Metabuff needs. But yeah, but everything that you guys are seeing right now, you know, this map could be a hundred percent different from the actual release of the game, you know what I mean? Obviously, that might not be the case. But, you know, that that is a potential that does happen in games. Like the map could be completely different from the final product. I like let me get into some of the things I didn't like. I don't like solo lane at all. So we're laying the way it's set up now. If harvesters work the same way they did in Paragon and there's no guarantee of that. But if they did, then solo lane is definitely going to be dominated by casters because a melee hero would not have a chance in that lane because there's the lip that the caster, the the raised platform that the caster can stand on and just kind of ping that solo laner out of lane, you know, an aggressive caster will always be able to push a mid laner back. Maybe not. I mean, a melee hero back, maybe not kill them, but push them back under their tower, which would give them ample opportunity to plant that harvester if they wanted to and then give their team an economy bonus. And yeah, I really didn't like that. I hope that gets changed a bit. And the other thing it's that harvesters all the way away from the jungle. So that caster who pushes that melee hero back also really doesn't have to worry about getting ganked by the jungler because the jungler has run all the way across the lane in order to get them unless they use a movement ability. And if they use a movement ability that they don't have that to catch up to the caster, if they just piece out, run away. So I hope that gets changed for one thing. But again, without being able to play actual people on the map, I really don't know. Right. And to throw another another viewpoint on this, this is actually something that we spent probably like a good day talking about on my stream. There was a few things that people brought up. A lot of people were they brought up that same concern like, you know, what if a caster could easily take that? What we mentioned was, first of all, that main ring that's on the the harvester, if they could program it where you have to be in the ring for it to even be active for any ranged person to even get close enough for that to matter. Yes, they can poke them. But if they're close enough to poke, they're most likely close enough for a gray stone or a fangmau or a quang to jump to their teleport to and really deal up deal with some damage as strong as Gideon can be. You know, a beefed up fangmau can really fuck with that. You know what I mean? So that was one thing. The other thing was even make, you know, if they were going to do that kind of ring where you had to be in it to have it work, make that even tighter. The third thing that somebody mentioned to was even just doing like that in legacy, push it off to the side so that it's not a chore for the solo laner. It's an option. If you don't want to worry about it, fine. But if you but you'll have to defend it if the other person wants to go and take it. So, you know, a fangmau versus an Aurora or a Quangest is, you know, a fangmau, whatever, however, it's going to be set up. You know, if that Aurora wants to go there and try to get that for the team, you don't have to really spend time worrying about it, but you want to stop them from getting it. So it does become another task. But, you know, if both people are going to leave it alone, it's not right there because there was a lot of times in legacy where that solo harvester would never get used because it was far off the side. People were worried about fighting, but mainly I saw people go back there to recall, to hide and recall. You know, so I feel like it could fall into that same category where, you know, it could help out the team. But it could also just kind of be there as, you know, another strategic place to hang out. You know, so I think there's some definite things that they could do there. What you're saying does make sense. I didn't think about that. Having the jungler kind of move in from there. It is very far from the jungle. But I think making it more optional by having it pushed to the side is a lot better than kind of having it shoved in the solo laners face, you know, along with worrying about ganks, rotations from mid and, you know, the actual fighting of the two solo laners. Having that right there is a lot of pressure. So I think having it off to the side would be a really good option. Well, if it's the only neutral harvester, that's not optional. That is something that you were going to fight to the nail for because it gives an economy bonus to your entire team. So even if you push it off to the side, there's always going to be a fight for it. And if you're a melee hero, melee heroes don't have as much lane clear as, say, a Gideon or a Fei or a Bellica. If they go to set that harvester up, Bellica is just going to jam a wave underneath your tower and then your tower is going to go down. And when you go back to try and clear those minions, she's just going to take that harvester back. So even if you do that, it's still going to massively favor castors. And the other thing you were talking about, I know window was saying that as well, have it be like a domination thing, like you have to be standing within the ring to activate the harvester. Well, if you do that, if you're standing in the ring to activate the harvester, if you're a melee hero, you're not doing anything to the minions, whereas a caster can, you know, can still throw abilities down on that minion wave. So anyway, you slice it, it benefits castors. It just changes it up just kind of changes the way it benefits castors. Right. Right. Now, let me throw this one thing at you. So, you know, if so under the assumption that, you know, the one team is following, you know, how Metabuff is setting up the game, because realistically they want that to be two fighters, like a fangmao, a quang, a gray stone, those kind of characters that lane specifically for them. Um, if if somebody did decide to switch it up and pick a fey or bellica, um, in your scenario, are they are they dropping mid lane and now is a fighter going to be going to mid lane? Or is that team going to have two casters? Because I think right. So I personally think that could end up hurting the team in the long run because, uh, you know, there's plenty of fighters that can out damage a caster late, much later on in the game. So yes, early on that might make problems. And then there are also a lot of ways that angling the harvester, because like if you remember on legacy, you didn't kind of have to be in view of the harvester, like you had to be in that side lane to actually be able to, you know, drop a Gideon rock or how you there was an angle you had to get in there, which would give the melee fighter some chance to kind of lead, you know, kind of teleport to you and give that that caster a fight. Again, I get what you're saying, you know, I'm trying to play devil's advocate here, obviously. And give another viewpoint on here. You know, I'm not super in love with the harvester. I think cool idea, you know, but I, you know, looking at this from every angle, I think there is a way it can be done. What you're saying doesn't make a lot of sense. Having it completely out in the open like that does make it much more caster favored. And I think it's already kind of destroying that that meta that meta buff wants of having fighters, casters in middle, and then the carry support on the side lane on the other on the other end. Yeah. Yeah, it's something that they'll definitely have to change. And I think they probably will. Another thing I didn't like was the mid lane when I first played the map, I liked the mid lane better than when they made the revisions. They had that that cliff wall that faces each other. I think that should be offset. So it would be mirrored right now. It's like, you know, the walls are directly facing each other. I think the wall should be on one side for one lane and the other diagonally. Yeah, diagonally. I was trying to think of the best way to say that. I think, yeah, I think you've got it. I think you get. Yeah, yeah. No, I do. See, I'm on both ends of that. I like it being direct only because one side of the jungle is always going to be favored for a rotation than the other. Obviously, if coming, you're going to want to focus on getting the red buff and then rotating. If it's diagonal, one one lane is always going to be closer to the red buff on that platform, which is going to open up for more opportunity for the jungle to rotate in and kind of sneak up on them, whereas if they're both on the kind of more neutral side, the blue buff side like they are now, I think it gives a mid laner. It gives one of the mid laners more equal chance because again, you know, if I'm on the I think it's right now, it's on the dawn side or let's just say the dawn side, you know, is on the left side of the tower, you know, closer to right. It's a lot more likely someone's going to come from the right side, you know, right from under you and do a chimera jump or a gray stone jump and get right up there with that buffer, come from the stairs right above with it. But if you're on the further, if you're on the far side of both teams are on the far side, it'd be a little unfair if I was on dawn side and I was getting bullied by the red buff side and the, you know, the opposite dusk laner was only to worry about the blue buff and had more vision of where the red buff side can come from. That's my only gripe about having a diagonal. I think if you're going to do it, have a platform on both sides, kind of similar to how monolith did it. But I personally kind of like that. If they are going to do it on diagonal, I think you need to have it on both sides only because it does make it a little unfair for the person closer to the red buff. That's a good point. Another thing people saw a lot of people talk about, they didn't like the design of the or prime dunk pit in the duo lane. I really don't know what to think about that because we kind of look at everything through the lens of this is how it was in Paragon. This is a Paragon. This is core and the prime dunk, you know, just because their prime dunk pit doesn't look like the one that we had in Paragon doesn't mean it's not going to work. It does look weird to me, but I think that's just me projecting Paragon on the core. So I don't know that might be the problem for other people as well. I don't I really don't know. What do you think of the prime dunk pit? I I loved I loved prime dunking. I didn't like how long it would make a game. I didn't like some of the options that they added to it. I'm actually going to I'm actually going to send you on Discord to even look at this. One of my viewers actually drew something out. That would be cool kind of a fixed for it, because they were in my stream, a visioned actually is one of the mods for the community Discord. He kind of revamped it and made it so it's more of a staircase, a little more open, less of a wall. But I personally like dunking. I thought it was it was a fun new mini game that incorporated into the game. You know, the whole team is going on every kind of going back and forth, you know, everybody, both teams kind of equitably reach this point in the game where they're like, OK, I'm ready for our prime. They're ready for our prime. Let's go have a crazy team fight and the winner is going to have to scrounge up for or prime. And in in this version of core is you you cannot fight in the prime. I hated that about monolith. There was too much room to fight. You could have an entire team fright fight right in front of or prime because there was so much space in course, current map right now. It's a very like once you enter the or prime pit, you're in or prime. There is no way to fight around him without hitting him and getting him involved on the team fights, devastating for either team that he's attacking. So I like the idea of, OK, let's wipe the team or white most of them. Let's go in there, get prime and let's bring it over to the dunk spot. And it's going to give us that boost that we need because right now both teams are even, you know, we're good, you know, my team is good, your team Mongoose is good. We're both good team captains. Our characters are fed where they need to be, you know, they're everyone's ready to go. So if we're evenly matched, that's a match that could last forever, giving you that or prime buff. And that dunk adds the risk of your entire team dying right away. And it also adds on now the other team is stronger than us, regardless of both of our set skills. They are, you know, statistically now stronger than us because of that buff. So the game could, you know, progress a lot quicker. There are a lot of people that argue that it did extend the games, which it definitely did, adding on the the Harvester Revivals or all the Harvester Revivals, I think is a mistake. You know, so there's definitely some kind of revisions and stuff that they have to look through to really make it work. But I think prime dunking is something that could be really fun. And it would also be cool to kind of have it optional. You know, in competitive, it's not really needed, because, you know, that could extend the game a lot. I think competitive games should just be, you know, talent against talent, skill against skill, you know, whatever, you know, whatever item set is better than the other one. I think that's something that's interesting. And you know, having dunking for, you know, have a specific mode for that has the kind of mini games, quote unquote, you know, or add that in casual. But I do like it. And I hope that Metabuff can find a way to really make it work. As long as it'll allow you to resurrect your inhibitors. Oh, my God, I hated that so bad. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And even then, there's ways that they can allow you to revive the inhibitor, but make it very limited, you know, give you give your inhibitor like 25% health or make it the inhibitor revival for like a minute, like give you a minute of time to kind of set up your lanes and push, you know, give you that little bit of extra time. And then after a minute, you know, you lose your inhibitor instead of taking the, you know, the powerful buff from or prime for your team, you guys get a minute or two of inhibitor time. You know, there's things that I think they could implement that could help. But I do agree. I think the inhibitor revival is a very risk thing. Yeah. I don't know, I really enjoyed the or prime dunking mechanic back in legacy as well. I actually felt the opposite of how you felt about the actual or prime pit itself. I think it's more open than the one we had in Model F. There's a lot of area in that circle and then there's a lot of area just outside that circle in order to fight in. So that's going to be, I don't know, I think it's going to make for some pretty damn good teamfights. Yeah, no, regardless. Yeah, I think it's going to it's it's set up where a round prime pit is there's a lot of space to fight. What I mean is like once you enter, you know, the prime pit, it's pretty tight around around him. Like you couldn't do a steel ults without hitting him. You couldn't do a Gideon ultimate without hitting him while you're inside of the pit. Whereas on model if you had that entire kind of like slab of stone that was, you know, that was in front of him. And then you kind of entered his initial little pit. I think it's a little it's a little more tight. Like once you go in and you start, you have to start, you know what I mean? Like you have to finish that. Do you mean like before he's pulled or after he's pulled? Because once you pull him, you can pull him to a wall. Right. No, no, that's what I mean. Like once once prime is started, you know, it's tight enough for like you got to you got to commit and finish it. Yeah, and I definitely don't want to see people being able to solo prime like super early in the game like he used to be able to in Paragon. That that doesn't ever feel good for anybody. Right. Right. Yeah. Like I used to I'm guilty. I used to do that all the time as Chimera. I I enjoyed doing it for the fact that it was broken. But I'm glad that they took it out because it was not necessary for me to be able to do that alone and fight off, you know, another person trying to stop me. That was that's not a good thing. My feeling on that is whenever you could do something like that with a hero, it makes you feel like you're playing a powerful hero. It doesn't make you feel like you did something incredible smart. You know what I mean? Right. It doesn't make you feel like a good player. It makes you felt like you played a good hero. Right. Exactly. And that's not something I want. I want to I want to feel like, OK, you know, I'm not good with, you know, Chimera because broken. I'm good with Chimera because I know how to play and I know when to beat up my attacks. I know when to do my my ultimate. I know when to jump and follow through. And, you know, it's that is much more an appealing feeling than like you said, then, then, you know, I'm good with this character because he's he's busted. I think that's probably why I was always drawn to the less played heroes. Like I had Mastery on Richter, Faye, Crunch, Shinbi, like, I know a lot of people ended up playing Shinbi, but when Shinbi first dropped, like people get mad when I picked her. Yeah, she was. Yeah, she was in a bad place when she first came out and and and and then like closer to the end, she was like a huge meta pick. But yeah, I remember that. She first dropped. I mean, but that was that was the fun for me for people to get mad at me for picking Shinbi and then for me to shit on the enemy team all game along with Shinbi. And then they'd be like, OK, maybe Shinbi's not so bad. Yeah, and I was kind of in the same boat with you. I actually made a compilation video a while ago and I put it on the on the Facebook group for Para gone back when it was up. And I just it was just all Richter, I jungle Richter. People would get fucked pissed at me. They would dodge and but I got in and and Mongoose, I was like, I was really good. Like I had perfect ganking like as soon as mid laner tried running like, no, no, no, no, like you come back here and you were to you like Gideon, you used your teleport and I'm going to pull you right back and you're it's over. There's a reason Richter had that assassin tag, man. He was right, right, right. Exactly. Yeah, people didn't know how to use them. And, you know, they just thought because he was big, he couldn't run around the jungle. And boy, were they wrong when they saw me. Yeah, no, I'm I'm I I enjoy that feeling. I'm going back to that. Yeah, I don't want to be able to take down or prime by myself, you know, unless. It goes back to that. You know, I built the perfect set for Chimera and I can just barely take Chimera, you know, take an order prime or take on like two people by myself because not only am I good enough to use his abilities, I've mastered, I think, mastered my build for how I play Chimera, you know, that's kind of different than just having having an all damage build for Chimera and an all speed build, which is pretty much how you'd only build them in and in legacy. You know, so it is a slightly double edged sword. One of those edges is a little more blunt than the other. But, you know, it does come like that. Yeah. All right, folks, that's going to wrap it up for the first episode of the core cast. We actually had some other topics we wanted to get to, but we were having such a great time talking about the news and updates that we just kept on going. We want to keep this limited to maybe about an hour, hour and a half. So we'll save those topics for next next time. Be sure to tune in for next time. Nato, you got anything you want to say to the folks before we go? Nothing really. I mean, you know, pay attention to the community figures that you guys follow. You know, make sure you guys are voicing your opinions. And let's not let's not put pressure on Metabuff any more than they need. I'm sure they're beating themselves up about the delay. There's no need to get bashed from us, you know. And what I can't say is from reading everything and everybody's responses, everyone's been great about it. So I just say let's be patient, you guys. And let's really enjoy the trip because once it's here, it's going to be here and we're not going to be able to stop. So let's enjoy the calm before the storm. Calm before the storm. I love it. All right, folks, we're going to be out of here. We will see you later.