 Thank you very much to take time and really appreciate and Internet Week is an event for providing opportunities mainly for tech people who participate in Internet infrastructure. This event organized by JPNIC, Japan Network Information Center, a membership-based non-profit organization for promoting Internet with 28 volunteers in program committee. JPNIC is an IPRS registry in Japan and also promote Internet governance participation from Japan. In Taiwan, a similar organization is TWNIC, I think, but JPNIC don't have a domain registry function. It's a very similar organization. My name is Masano Ikunoki, nice to meet you. I am a primary city company to drive digital transformation on financial sector and I also organize tech community for security management of digital market custodian and exchange. And I also work as executive advisor to the government CIO and promote some programs such as special fixed benefits and exposure notification application. And in Japan, in face of COVID-19, many, many problems are happening and we have to resolve it to plan to make a new digital agency, not ministry. Now we are planning many, many things and also I like to learning from broader success cases. I'm very surprised that Taiwan success case. I hear that no new cases over COVID-19, over 200 days. 200 days, that's correct. And Taiwan have been able to deal with COVID-19 better than any other country in the world. What is the role of digital on this success case? Can you tell me? We use the digital in three ways. It's called fast, fair and fun. The fast part is a collective intelligence system. Not only did we notice the Wuhan situation thanks to the whistleblowing of Dr. Lee Wenliang last December on a not-for-profit Reddit-like forum in Taiwan called PTT that enabled us to respond on the first day of January. So that's really quick. And people can call 192.2 a hotline to get all their questions answered and new ideas can get amplified in the daily CECC. That's the Central Epidemic Command Center press conference which is live streamed over the digital channels such as YouTube and so on. So that's the fast part. The fair part concerns the distribution of masks because in the very beginning masks are very required but people don't have a lot of access to it because people were afraid that if they don't stockpile enough mask at home they will run out of mask. So because of that we started a mask rationing policy to ensure the fair access to the mask and the pharmacists, six thousands of them work with civic technologists on the availability map so people can see which pharmacy still have the mask. And later on we included more than 12,000 convenience stores and so on into the distribution so that by March we already have three-quarter of people wearing the mask and washing their hands. And so by April the R-value becomes below one and that's how we eliminated the virus. And finally the fun part is a very cute spoke stock with the name Zongchai is a Shiba Inu that explained all the scientific knowledge in very cute terms like when you're indoor keep three Shiba Inu away from one another. If you're outdoor keep two Shiba Inu away otherwise wear a mask so it's very easy to remember and when people laugh about it they don't get so anxious as to spread this information. So we tackle not only the pandemic with no lockdown we also fix the infodemic with no takedown. Thank you very much. I'm very surprised Shiba Inu is popular in Taiwan. Very very popular yes and even myself participated in the public communication. For example just last week I featured in a short film just one minute long and I played the role of Doraemon and it's also very popular in Taiwan. And one more question. In Japan mask distribution case is broadly promoted and some politicians ask me why Japan cannot do that. But I felt it's very difficult because of if update stock of mask continuously all stores have to contribute to push data and not only that if distributed all identity is very important to limit to I'm very surprised that it's very difficult to a short term to prepare that not only a development visualization system but also identify citizens and update stock of masks. Why do you why you cannot do that. So first of all it is because during the SARS 1.0 in 2003 we already started the IC card of the National Health Insurance. It was at the time only tested in Penghu in the Pescador Island. But because of SARS we realized this IC card is really really helpful and so it gets more popular. So after SARS everybody in Taiwan not just Penghu switched to the national insurance card and the insurance card covers not only citizens but also 99.99% of residents including but not limited to migrant workers and so on. And because of this we made sure that anyone who show up at the pharmacies they can use their national health card to get a mask in exactly the same way as they would refill their chronic prescriptions. So we piggyback on a process that especially the elderly people are already familiar with. So there's two factor. One is the wide availability of IC card which as I understand you also have the my number card and similar to our national health card it can only be used for public service not commercial service but the availability in Japan is probably not 99.99%. So that's the first point and the second point is the pharmacies already know how to process this system because almost all of them I think close to 90% have a fiber optic line and VPN connectivity and even in the less connected places they also have ADSL and so on so that they can process the volume of data very easily. Thank you very much and I also surprise at stock sharing stock information sharing you use blockchain or not? So we use distributed ledger but we don't use blockchain. We use a distributed ledger that you're very familiar with probably it's called Git and GitHub and GitLab and so on. These are also ledger technologies but they are not blockchain right? In Git if you make a commit it hash your commit with your previous commit and so it's there's block there is a chain it's a ledger but it's not blockchain. Thank you very much. There is no consensus algorithm. The consensus algorithm is determined just by the national open data portal so the API that we publish every 32nd is the source of truth. There is no multiple writer there's just one single writer the national health insurance agency so it's not strictly speaking a blockchain but it's replicated to more than 140 applications and they serve as the nodes for replication it's been replicated I think more than maybe 10 yeah it's been replicated more than 10 million times from the master branch of the central API server so I would say it's distributed it's a ledger but it is not a blockchain. Oh thank you very much and in Japan we also discussed about how to utilize DLT on government applications but many many problems we found one is it's very fragmented and updated it's very frequently and not enough engineers can program smart contracts on DLT and why well if you are talking about commit hook which is a kind of smart contract on git then there are many engineers that can program it so my suggestion is don't limit yourself to bitcoin, iserium or any of those cryptocurrency oriented DLTs there could be many DLTs whose primary application is not cryptocurrency in which case many programmers know what git means and how to program it yeah thank you very much and we found such kinds of mask case on April or May but I very surprised still very good condition in Taiwan and can I ask what kind of role on digital technology on past half years on managing this situation yeah I think the quarantine is the most important part so once we have more than three-quarter of people wearing masks and washing hands well more than 90 percent now but anyway we control the R value so the important thing is how to prevent the second or the third wave coming from abroad right so we make sure that they either go to a quarantine hotel and stay there for 14 days where they're physically prevented from leaving or if they live in a flat with their own bathroom they can also choose home quarantine in which case their phone or we give them a phone if they don't have a phone for two weeks is put into this automated SMS system if the phone leaves through cell phone tower signal strength triangulation the 50 meter or so radius of their quarantine area then an SMS is sent not only to them but also to the local health officers and so we make sure that if you stay for 14 days we pay you every day about 30 US dollars as a stipend but if you break the quarantine and get detected by the digital fence then we find you up to 1000 times that so you can fund a thousand more people I guess so nobody break the quarantine and that is why it stays safe to this day such kinds of applications we if we try to deploy Japan some people may concern about the privacy what is a good balance of privacy and social benefit do you think yeah we do not collect any data that are not already collected before the pandemic so no new data collection it's very important the telecom already know where your phone is otherwise they cannot provide roaming service the telecom already send automated SMS otherwise we cannot advance the warm people of earthquake or flood warnings so these data collection are already there and the data operators are the same people they're the same five telecoms they're not sending the data to some commercial processor and so all we did is essentially saying what people already receive for earthquake and typhoon flood warnings or forest fire or whatever we use it to make the digital quarantine work of course we sacrifice some precision because it's not very precise we do not know which room they are in I like GPS Bluetooth beacon or some other technology but people are comfortable because they know that this is not an app they don't have to install anything by the time that the two week is over there's no way for SMS sending application on the cell phone tower to read email or something like that so by collecting no new data the privacy constraint is very easily explained thank you very much it's very clear and another question in Japan many many social sector provide voluntary work for anti-covid issues and some problems happen for example multiple groups want to do same function yeah yes and the government cannot choose by logically but they cannot make a new contract earlier and we don't have any process at rapid to rapid engagement with social sector and I'd like to know my understanding that Taiwan has reverse procurement process where they built the application we supplied the data and give them a domain name but Tokyo Metropolitan Government did the same with Tokyo for Japan on the dashboard yeah Mr. Kiki is a very famous open government guy and he also joining the government on this mountain and yeah it is a very impressive case and yeah local government is faster than national government in some cases and another aspect we worry about education and COVID-19 and currently some universities are still suspended and high school and junior high school and elementary school are already started but if COVID will come back it will it may will suspended and can I ask what situation in Taiwan so back to normal already back to normal it's been normal for many months now because we never had a lockdown at any point it's true that we delayed the semester for schools for two weeks but it's not because of a local transmission it's because we need to get the mask and alcohols hand spray available once we make sure that everything is available and the thermometer also importance then we open the schools and we never shut down any schools and so in Taiwan I think the main idea is that we need to stop the virus at the border if we stop it at a border then even if it mutates even if there's starts 2.1 2.2 beta service pack starts 3.0 it's going to be respiratory disease right it's not going to become a different kind of virus it's just going to be more virulent and so we can still stop it with the physical vaccine which is the mask and the same border quarantine controls thank you very much and the situation is very different and education related question in Japan on this year we started programming education and distribute PC for all children and it is a great opportunity we can provide that but still very difficult to teaching learning teaching method of programming and any other can I ask what is important to educating that adapt to digitalization I think it's important to show that the education is for digital competence it's not for digital literacy because if you use the term literacy it sounds like media literacy and media literacy is a very like last century idea when few people make radio and television channels and many people only watch or listen to the channels and they need to be literate however nowadays everybody can use their phone and become a broadcaster and become a essentially a news worker and they're competent in producing data producing the narrative producing the media and so the education should be treating them as producers instead of consumers of data actually the term consumer of data doesn't mean anything right so if you say digital literacy it's the wrong terminology to use in my humble opinion and so the main idea is that people learn by curating data they can measure the air quality water quality they can fact check their presidential candidates any way to participate in something of public benefit is a good way to teach about data stewardship about GDPR requirements about data portability accountability value alignment these things are impossible to teach but they can learn if you are a data producer so start producing data as early as possible I completely agree and but it's very difficult because my understanding is that it's not for children but also adult people also get such kinds of digital competence many many fake news manipulated by not children but adults and sometimes commercial media also they cannot choose yeah I think the elderly people they have a lot of wisdom to share but sometimes because they are very young people in terms of cyberspace so like any young child if someone they know tell them something they just trust that without bothering to check so in that sense the elderly people are like children because they are new to cyberspace and so I think the same idea that we teach children to fact check so that they can produce media that are more balanced and so on also works for the elderly but with the only caveat that that it need to be something that they care about so maybe the elderly people care about sustainability about environment more they care more about the public welfare of the next generation instead of their own generation and so on and so in these cases we make sure there are what we call intergenerational solidarity where people who are maybe 16 or 17 years old is paired with people are 60 or 70 years old and they form a team and they can create the narrative together by interviewing each other and things like that and we found that this works really well maybe because both generation both age groups have the most free time on their hands if you are 17 or 70 you have a lot of free time but not the people in between yeah very interesting in Taiwan such kinds of a program already deployed already exists yes and we make sure that we call it Qingying Gongchang co-creation between the young and the silver haired hmm very interesting uh sometimes uh some school uh don't uh say don't permit uh take a smartphone to school but uh i think it's not a good idea because uh it's uh uh children cannot uh get the experience to use that uh on the other hand uh in school teachers can manage the risks for children because of it is physically separated from external world but uh it's very difficult to estimate risks to using digital technology by children uh do you have any ideas or trade off always in my lectures uh i start by saying get your phone out and scan the QR code on slido and start asking me questions on slido.com and so by doing this i'm essentially made everyone's mobile phone a part of the classroom and on slido you can still write something you can still like each other's questions but whatever you do it will be a social object meaning that it will be projected for everyone to see and so the attention is then still in the room it's not outside of the room and when you say that the students are in distance that's fine too right even if they are in their own home as long as their phone is on asking me questions and liking each other's questions they will not get distracted by other media on their phone so i think the main question is that how digitally competent are the teachers to children's phone part of the classroom if you can do it then it's a net plus for your education because everybody learn in different speed however if you cannot do it then the phone become a distraction as you said thank you very much i often use slide 2 but yeah not only it as a tool but also a teaching equipment very interesting and in japan remote education are not permitted for many many universities by regulation but in covid-19 they permitted it but now situation is better and huge discussion remote or not but i think we can use both no you can do 50 50 percent yeah yeah and scaling remote education is very good for scaling but it's not all i think face-to-face lecture is also very important to continue interest and mobilize and many many case yeah thank you and sorry i'd like to talk about future uh we are uh it is i think uh covid is a very uh historical event after that what we change and how we have to change uh current uh world war do you have any vision to her future uh after covid world yeah i think the covid has really broken the boundary of the uh like the sovereign nation each taking care of their own problems like the multilateral model uh it is really challenged by covid because the virus doesn't need a passport the virus knows no boundaries and we already now have the capacity to work across jurisdictional boundaries uh like the tokyo dashboard i also contributed our mask map the korean people also use and so on and before you need diplomats signing mo you or treaties for this kind of thing to happen but because covid is everybody's business so everybody across sector and across nations are willing to help and so i think first of all this will enhance the multilateral model with a truly open multistakeholder model which is the foundation of internet governance because the internet doesn't have a navy or a army right all we have is radical transparency and participation and these ideas are amplified during the covid because people see multilateral models doesn't work without the open-stake multi-stakeholderism as advocated by the n i c and by the i k n i e t f and so on and so this will be a permanent i think culture added to multilateral situations and so second it will empower the ordinary people every citizen to start working on truly global problem because we already have the global solidarity on covid we can work on empowering the social sector to work on countering this information to work on climate change to work on i don't know colonizing mars anything that requires a truly global effort we are much more empowered to do it after covid i really feel such kinds of empowerment for people's interest broader and breaking many many barriers but still society has many many aspects for example digital government of course we have built new applications and take good practice from our countries and on the other hand we still have many many legacy applications and very strict rules uh how to uh change uh how to uh coordinate or how to uh changing legacy world by such kinds of uh change uh i uh back to uh uh reverse procurement cases uh we i think uh if uh adopt a reverse procurement method you have to change the rules in government yes uh what is a good process for how to uh changing legacy world by new technology i think uh one of the main ideas in procurement is to make sure that people build in a api first fashion if you do not have a api first fashion when the apis are second uh kind of um classes that get bolted on after you build a system then the api tend to be fragile because the system are tightly coupled and doesn't use the api anyway uh the core insight of internet is that it's just a set of api and whenever a new api gets invented people don't need to ask the intermediaries it's called end-to-end innovation but end-to-end innovation or permissionless innovation in the early internet is only possible because people design the protocols to be liberal in what they accept and so reflect that idea the uh john postel's law in the procurement is important in taiwan we say not only you uh procure a website you must do so just for people with blindness who cannot see as well as for people who can see and if a vendor says no i'm not liberal in what we accept only people with eyesight can use my website people who are blind cannot uh then they are discriminatory they could be disqualified they will be disqualified by our procurement rules for not providing universal access to people with seeing difficulties and now we change the procurement rule four years ago saying if you only produce a digital service for humans but if you do not provide a open api standard a oas machine-to-machine endpoint then you also get disqualified because you discriminate against robot we don't quite say discriminate against robot but it's the idea so everybody now know that for each and every new system for interactive use by human beings they have to design with api first in mind and many of the open data has been converted to the real-time open api according to the linux foundation standard the oas 3 and once you do that reverse procurement becomes very easy because you do not need to change the back end systems they can still run on legacy software but because they are api first if people want to build a chatbot or a vr experience or a mobile phone experience why not just go ahead and do it these are apis already tested for cyber security thank you very much japanese government also provide the api past three or four years and many many applications are already available and uh thank you very much for take time on the my last question is can i would you you still many many dialogue with japanese people and do you have any advice or recommendation for japanese digitalization yeah i think our philosophy is very very similar i often mentioned that in industry 4.0 it is about connecting machine to machine but in society 5.0 which is more advanced than industry 4.0 digitalization is about connecting people to people and there is a rfc that says it's best it says the internet is for its end users and then i will add to that saying even if the end users have not yet been born if the end users have not yet connected the future of the end users are not just end users but co-creators of the internet and so if we design our digital services to connect people to the people and also connect people today with people in the future then we are on the right path if we are about only connecting machine to machine and doing efficiency for current generation but potentially sacrificing future generation then we are on the wrong path but i firmly believe japan and taiwan are the same value when it comes to inclusion and sustainability thank you very much i think so i visited taiwan two times and yeah very very similar situation and very good culture and food and i like to continue and learning from taiwan continuously thank you very much thank you very much thank you very much thank you thank you