 I'm Scott Rasmus, a Body Language Expert and Analyst. I train law enforcement in the military and interrogation in body language. And I created BodyLanguageMembership.com with Greg Hartley. Mark? I'm Mark Bowden. I'm an expert in human behavior and body language, helping people all over the world to stand out, win trust, gain credibility every time they communicate, including some of the leaders of the G7, Chase. Hey, I'm Chase Hughes. I help people and companies radically transform their abilities to read and influence human behavior. And I also wrote the number one bestselling book on the subject, Greg Hartley. I'm a former Army interrogator, interrogation instructor, resistance to interrogation instructor for the 10 books on body language and behavior put together this number one BodyLanguageTactics.com course with Scott Rouse. And I spend most of my time on Wall Street or corporate America. All right, we want to give you a little short. We get we get a lot of input from the panelists and panelists are people who subscribe to our channel. Yeah, so subscribe. If you haven't already subscribed, do that now. Yeah, so go ahead and subscribe. So we got a lot of input for Alec Baldwin and the situation he's in right now. Greg, you want to talk about that? Yeah. So this is around the accidental shooting of someone on the movie set of Rust. And this particular video happens to be he is vacationing. I think it's in Vermont. And he car cars are following him and his wife, Hillary and their children. And so they pull over and they do a impromptu press conference, if you will. That's what we have. Right. So what we're going to do is we're going to play this one time and the rates going to tell you what we see in this is it should be fairly short. Should be. We'll see what happens. We can be long winded. So yeah. What do you want to know? All right, what's the current state of what's going on with these cases? I'm not allowed to make any comments because it's an ongoing investigation. I've been ordered by the sheriff's department in Santa Fe. I can't answer any questions about the investigation. I can't. It's an active investigation in terms of a wound dying. She was my friend. She was my friend. The day I arrived in Santa Fe to start shooting, I took her to dinner with Joel, the director. We were a very, very, excuse me, we were a very, very, you know, well oiled crew shooting a film together and then this horrible event happened. Now, I've been told multiple times don't make any comments about the ongoing investigation and I can't. I can't. I can't. That's it. What are the questions that you have other than that? You met with the family. Her name is Helena. If you're spending this much time waiting for us, you should know her name. Her name is Helena. Helena Hutchins. I met with her husband Matthew and her son. We know how to characterize them. They're mortified. You know what? No details. Do me a favor? I'm going to answer the question. What I appreciate that he was probably very upset. The guy is overwhelmed with grief. This is something that, you know, there are incidental accidents on film sets from time to time, but nothing like this. This is a one in a trillion. And so he is in shock. He's a nine year old son. You know, we are, you know, in constant contact with him because we're very worried about his family and his kid. And as I said, we're eagerly awaiting that the Sheriff's Department tells us what their investigation has yielded. What else do you have? Would you ever work on another film set that involves firearms that mention? I couldn't answer that question. I really don't have any. I have no sense of that at all. I do know that an ongoing effort to limit the use of firearms in on film sets is something I'm extremely interested in. I don't know where you, but remember something that I think is important. And that is, how many bullets have been fired in films and TV shows in the last seven, five years? This is Americans. How many bullets have gone off in movies? Firearms in on film sets is something I'm extremely interested in. I don't know where you, but remember something that I think is important. And that is, how many bullets have been fired in films and TV shows in the last seven, five years? This is Americans. How many bullets have gone off in movies and on TV sets before? How many billions in the last 75 years? And nearly all of them have gone without insinuations. So what has to happen now is we have to realize that when it does go well, and it's this horrible catastrophic thing, some new measures have to take place. Rubber guns, plastic guns, no live, no real operas. That's not the way to decide it's urgent. It's urgent that you understand I'm not an expert in this field. So whatever other people decide is the best way to go in terms of protecting people's safety on film sets. I'm all in favor of, and I will cooperate with that in any way that I can. Do you have any further projects in the works at the moment, or is everything on hold? No, no, that's irrelevant to what we're talking about. Do you think production will start up again? No, I doubt it. Was there anything else? Why Vermont, Alex? That's a person, that's part of it. Anything else? Okay. So just do me a favor, do you know what? My kids are in the car crying. Because you guys are following everything. I want to do it. As a courtesy to you, I came to talk to you. I'm not allowed to comment on the investigation. I talk to the cops every day. They know what you want. Yeah, I'm cooperating with them. So my point is that, I'm just asking, we sat down as a courtesy now to talk to you. Now please, would you just not follow us for the rest? Just go home. We gave you everything we could possibly give you. Condolences, thank you. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yes, I'll try to be brief. Nothing funny about this situation, because somebody's dead. We don't want to joke and laugh about that along the way. But there are pieces of this that are almost comedy. My favorite is the, what are you doing upstaging me? Moving by Alec Baldwin more than one time. Excuse me. We were a very, very, excuse me. Now, I believe, excuse me, don't upstage me. This is an actor and somebody walking in front of him on the camera. Very, excuse me. But there are a couple of things that I think you can see are going on here. My assumption based on what I see is that, yes, they've been followed by these reporters. And yes, they're getting frustrated. And I'll bet there's a bunch of going on in the car. Right now over that very thing. Look what we've gotten into and they're bickering and going back and forth. Because you can sense some stress between the two of them as they get out. You can't miss it. You see the body language of them. He comes out and the first thing he does is he's almost like he's going to go at them. He calls them out. Let's go. And you know, that is a, if you know Alec Baldwin's past, he's punched a couple of folks and done some stuff like that, allegedly. Another day, another Alec Baldwin meltdown. It's one day after using a gay slur when cursing out a photographer. Yeah, the actor sets his sights on a local TV reporter who apparently once had a run in with Baldwin's wife. So my opinion is they got this thing going on. There's some BS going on in their vehicle. Then he stands square on. Men don't typically square off with other men unless there's a threat. And unless we're trying to pose a threat. If you don't believe that, tomorrow go stand square on with another male and watch what happens. One of you will turn to obliques. I've walked people down the hallway doing that before it's funny to watch. It's just a great experiment for you. He's animated his chins up. He sounds like a seasoned actor delivering his lines. I'm not allowed to make any comments because it's an ongoing investigation. I've been ordered by the sheriff's department in Santa Fe. I can't answer any questions about the investigation. I can't. Because what we do is what we do, what made us successful. So he blasts out information very well. But his respiration's up. He leans in on my friend to emphasize that point, which makes me believe him. She was my friend. Then she upstages him and he, you know, he calls her out. Excuse me. Very, excuse me. Pushes her away. And when he gets to what else, he does the same thing. She starts to get step up there. I see her wanting to be included and to tell off the reporters is what I see. And then he makes her leave. He makes her, then leave her alone, makes her move out of the way. You see her set jaw, her clamp lips, her head thrown back, the down drawn sides of her mouth. That's anger. And then I have to finish with this. Is that a Spanish accent at the very end of this? When she says, go home, turn off your camera. Now turn it off. Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So I agree. They literally take their mark at the start of the mark is the little cross on the ground where you stand because you know you're going to be in the right place for the camera. So yes, I think some of it is his push away of, is it Hilaria? Her birth name isn't even Hilaria. It's all American, Hillary. Anyway, I think part of the push away is number one, don't crowd my lines and don't crowd my space. I've got this handled. There's this sense of I'm the act. I'm the star. I've got this one handled. But he edges forward when he scores points. And we get a little bit of mouth grooming as he feels he scored a point and he gets more confident. He'll come further towards the camera. I agree. We see anger in her some real bottom teeth acting action from her. He does a point score on the journalist not knowing the name of the victim of the deceased. And we see him do this, this smile, this side of the head and a full chin jut. Incidental accidents. We get a touch of the nose. Now that could be his nose is dripping a bit. It might be a bit cold out there, but it's it's out of out of baseline for him. So I think he he realizes incidental accidents is an odd term to use. One in a trillion, one in a trillion. Well, that's hyperbole. That's exaggeration. You don't have the stats on this at all. So think about the kind of person who might do a lot of hyperbole, a lot of exaggeration. I can't. I don't know how to answer that question. He says and we see disgust there because it's a really good bind question from from the journalist of do you think you'd ever, you know, work with guns again? You know, I'm about to put myself out of most every piece of filming that's ever done in America and he does like hoist the flag at the end. He goes this, how many bullets? A good point on there. The journalist can't come in and go, yeah, well, forget about it. This is America, you know, who who who cares about that? He can't he can't not raise the flag on that. And what I love about this is that we see the female edge round the camera on on Baldwin when he says, but remember, but remember, I think that's a trigger for her in that he's going to hold forth. He's now took the stage. He's going to say something brilliant. She forgets that what she's meant to be recording is the journalists as evidence of their harassment and round comes the camera on. Oh, look, Baldwin's going to do a great part of the act right now. And then suddenly she realizes, oh, no, I'm not meant to be meant to be doing that right now. Yeah, that's what I got on that one. Chase, what do you got? Is this the one that had the big news scanner with a fake Spanish accent or something like that? That's her. Ylaria Baldwin says she's quitting social media after facing major embarrassment over accusations of having faked her Spanish accent and heritage for years and years. Listen to her charming Spanish accent here. Married life is really nice. You know, it feels different. But the accent is gone in this video. She just posted. There's been some questions about where I'm born. I'm born in Boston. And then I spent some of my childhood in Boston, some of my childhood in Spain. In her biography on her agency's website states Baldwin was born in Mallorca, Spain. In this video during a cooking segment, she can't remember the English word for cucumber. We have a part of saying cucumber. Okay. Don't know what her name is. It's all American, Hillary. You see some lip compression right when he signed up meeting with Helena's husband and son. And that typically means or denotes that someone's withholding opinions or withholding some information, which would be par for the course here. That's probably holding back some information. I think Alec turns to face Hilaria. It's all American, Hillary. Alec turns to face her with shoulders and feet pointed at her, which I think indicates a little aggression, territory and intent. And I think there's a possibility that it might not be, don't steal the spotlight, but don't embarrass me because he has a clear narrative that he's trying to do. And she's clearly doing the opposite of what he's trying to do and be friendly and show some candor. He has a nine year old son. He's no longer mentioning her name as the mother. And he says his family, his kid doesn't mention their names, which could be for privacy or could be to protect some of their privacy. But typically when we see someone fail to mention the name of people in stories, it tends to be a red flag. But this may be a different case. And I think he's got six of them. What's that? Six little kids, five or six little kids in the car. What I'm talking about is the film producer's husband and child. And I think it was interesting that Alex's wife or partner tries to answer for him and he just shuts her down. And I think it was interesting that he does not want anything to really come out of her mouth at all. We were a very, very, excuse me. And she continues to try to interrupt an answer for him. Like, are you going to be involved with this any movie in the future with guns in it? And she says, oh, no, he's not. And he goes, oh, yeah, maybe so. And I think it's just an unusual illustration of maybe how that relationship works. But there's another stop gesture. And if you're not familiar with a stop gesture, that's when we're trying to convince somebody not to do something or we want somebody to stop. Our fingers will extend all the way out. And we'll kind of do this during the conversation. But even if your hand is down at your side or in your pocket, your hand will extend out if you're trying to get someone not to do something. So we see that right at the moment. He says, my kids are in the car crying, which I think is absolutely honest. But I think it's unusual that he's eagerly awaiting this report from the sheriff when he's the one with all the information, he has more information than the sheriff does most likely about what happened. And I'm wondering, he said, we're eagerly awaiting all this stuff, wondering what what he's waiting on. And if he says he's not an expert in this, so he doesn't want to comment on it, that would lead me to believe that he must be an expert in everything else that he tends to comment on in the media, or he must think he's an expert in those things. Greg, what do you got? Scott, what do you got? Okay. All right. Well, he opens up with, what do you want to know? I will. What do you want to know? And the first question they start asking about, he says, I can't, I cannot talk about comment on what happened. I'm not allowed to make any comments. I think we're seeing him separate himself as far away from as possible from responsibility for this. This is something that, you know, there are incidental accidents on film sets from time to time. Because man, this is going to be a huge lawsuit. The Santa Fe district attorney now saying that criminal charges may be filed in the Alec Baldwin prop gun shooting that killed cinematographer Helena Hutchins. We're seeing everything that shows he's in a panic and he's worried. It's almost like somebody jumped out of the car and said, all right, man, listen, like he's going to fight him. He's going to fight somebody because he's in panic mode. His, his respiration is up. He's talking really loud. He's looking back and forth. His eyes are wide and they're all baggy. You can tell he hadn't slept a whole lot. He's tired. I'm sure there's got his wife out there running around with a camera. He's telling her, excuse me. Excuse me. Once she gets close to him. Wow. Excuse me. And when he starts talking about the, an act, he can't talk about an active investigation. I think he's, he's, he's didn't want to talk about how much trouble he's in. I'm not allowed to make any comments or any hint of that. Any of this is his fault at all, which it may not be. This is a one in a trillion. It's a one in a trillion. And I think he's a producer on this as well. So, so maybe there's some responsibility that lies with that. I don't know how all those things work in that, in that business. He says, it's urgent. You know, I'm not an expert in this field when he's talking about guns. It's urgent. It's urgent that you understand. I'm not an expert in this field. So his goal here, I think is to get out that he doesn't, he doesn't know anything about this man. He was just an actor there. And when somebody told him everything was cool, and then he ended up shooting the gun. Would you ever work on another film set that involves firearms of that nature? I couldn't answer that question. I really don't have any. I have no sense of that at all. This is the behavior you see in somebody when you jump, if somebody jumps out of the car and says, man, we're going to do this. You see that the person who's probably going to get their hand in whipped, that's what they look like. If Greg and I were to get in the car and say, okay, Greg, let's do this, man. He wouldn't look like that. He would look like, wait a minute. Greg thinks something funny. There. He would look like that. I said, all right, man, let's do this, dude. It's it. That's what he'd look like. But this guy doesn't look like that because he's afraid, he looks like he's going to be attacked. And he's afraid he's going to be attacked by questions or the questioning, I think, at this point. Today, we're going to talk about Alec Baldwin and the interrogation interview that happened right after the shooting that happened on the Russ set. Greg, you want to tell us about the video we're going to watch? Yeah. So this just came out this week. It was immediately after the shooting, we're going to call it whatever, whatever you want to call it, you call it. This is an interrogation regardless of what you call it because there are two police officers asking questions. They read him his rights. You can call that whatever you want. And what we're going to see is he doesn't yet know that Helena has died. He is simply talking up and answering questions about the incident. Do you think that any part of this incident that occurred was intentional? Cool. I can only say this, which is, in other words, to me, to place a bullet and position a bullet that is a live round, to make sure that that bullet is in the chamber if I were to squeeze the trigger in a rehearsal, that that bullet came out. Someone has to have extraordinary access to that weaponry to do that. I can't imagine if somebody walked around on a round. There was a .45 caliber round. You see, other people on the set were speculating that it was a .45 caliber round. She'd be dead. It would have blown a big hole in her. And so we're wondering, was the projectile that went in her some foreign material stuck and it was an accident with a flash round and something came out of the barrel. They didn't check. They always check. But... So your experience with these... I've never heard anything like this in my life ever. Okay. I've never heard of a projectile with a prop gun that went through a person's body in regards to being a smaller woman. That the bullet went in here, I'm told, went in here, came out here, her shoulder or whatever, and went into his body. I've never heard of that in my life. I don't know of any projectile with a gun and a flash prop gun that could accomplish that. Now, if somebody put a live round in there accidentally, see a very important question for Hannah is, have you ever co-mingled live rounds with theatrical rounds in your kit? Because they're forbidden to do that. According to, I think, the union rules and the safety rules for all the unions, you're not allowed to do that because of the fear of what would happen that you could co-mingle. So, whether someone accidentally, and I can't even imagine this, deliberately placed a live round in that gun... I've never heard of it in my life. I don't know anything about what happened, but all I know is when I... See, the other thing about this is, in a live round, you'd have a recoil, usually. When I shot that gun and it went off, I didn't shoot it when it went off. I didn't intend for it to... for what happened to happen. When that happened, it was... I'm always told, because I'm not a gun person, I don't know how to gun. They always tell me they have to assimilate the recoil. When I shoot the cop, which is a big gun, 45 caliber bullets, they always teach me what we should be doing. I go, get back here, boom! And they take my hand and go, boom! Kick. Because there's no kick in a flash round. And when I... this happened, I don't recall there being any kick either. That's important. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so this is about three minutes of him saying the same thing he says in a later video that we've all put together. What I will say is, pay real close attention to his body language. He's open when he starts. He doesn't yet know that she has died. It's clear. His body language is open. He's punctuating everything he says. His illustrators are very strongly narrating his story. To use your term, Chase, he's using body narration. He holds up his fingers about the size of a 45 long colt round. His body language punctuates what he's thinking. When he is unsure or he is training and teaching, he has long vowels. If you listen to me, but he doesn't do that when he's telling you the story about what actually happened. So his head, his hands, his language, everything is unified and congruent as he delivers a message about what happened. He says, to me. And then the only place you start to see anything, even when he says a live round, he narrates with his hands very closely, the only place he goes into that long vowel is when he starts to teach. And when he teaches, he uses a batoning move because he's telling you something you don't know. The union forbids it. And his vowels are longer there. At the shot, he corrects himself. He says, when I shot the gun, and then he corrects himself. And if he were trying to get away with something, in my opinion, he says, I didn't shoot. The gun went off. But he makes a mistake and he corrects it because he's trying to clear it up. And then he says, I don't recall recoil. That's his speech pattern. New York speech pattern. I don't recall that kind of thing. My wife may say I don't recall New Yorker. I think here I see more of what we did in a longer video that you should go and spend some real time on. But I don't see anything, anything out of the ordinary red flags. Scott, what about you? He's really open. His body language is like, he's just wide open. The classic whatever one thinks his open body language or says is, this is it. Everybody knows what that is. He looks fairly, his voice tone is low. His cadence is just kind of low up and long. He doesn't seem distressed as I would think he would be or as I would be in that situation. But obviously he doesn't know that she's died yet. Or that it was a real bullet or anything. So he doesn't have all the information yet. He juxtaposed this behavior and his tone and his cadence and his diction to that interview he did with Stephanopoulos. The one with Stephanopoulos, it's changed there from this. The story hasn't, but his approach to it has to his description of it. And Stephanopoulos, of course, it's a big deal. He's on camera and all that. He's on camera here, but he's not thinking about it because it's up in the corner there everywhere. So in that Stephanopoulos one, his diction is perfect. His tone is a little bit higher actually than it is here. But again, he doesn't know how bad the problem is yet. Or that there's such a grand problem. Such a big deal going to happen here. But back to this video. Yeah, he's stressed, but you can tell he's had an adrenaline dump. From all this stuff that's happened, he's almost relaxed. He's sort of worn out at this point. We've seen him using, I agree with Greg. These demonstrative gestures, as we call them, they're on point. His illustrators are on point and they're where they should be. Every time he describes something, he's very demonstrative again like Johnny Depp when he got that bottle thrown at him that we've looked at. He plays everything out. He shows you everything as he goes through this. Let's see what else is good here. There's so much to talk about. But what I thought was good too is he lets him know it's got to be, he knows there's a very special situation that has to happen to get a real bullet in a gun and have somebody shoot it in that situation. It has to go through so many steps. I don't think it would be, I don't see any deceptive anything on him at this point. I see nothing. I don't see him guarding. I don't see him, you know, bobbing and weaving. I don't see any chaff and redirect. I don't hear anything odd. Everything seems to me the way it should be. Everything is as it should be. So zero indications of deception. Nothing weird or making me go he's really thinking something different. Nothing like that. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I'm going to agree. I'll just tell you how and why I agree. Look, the question is, is can you think of any reason why somebody might have, you know, kind of done it on purpose? I think they're kind of saying. He says, I can only say, but before that he goes, he collides two words together, which I think is who and why. Who and why. So I think already his mind is curious about a perpetrator. Okay, curious about a perpetrator. Now that's not to say he's going, who will have done this on purpose, but he's trying to work out what are the set of circumstances and people may be involved in a supply chain that may well cause this to happen. I don't think he has a perpetrator in mind. He does mention the person in command of the of the armaments later on, I think throughout that and say, look, there's a specific question you need to ask around that. He's being helpful, being really helpful about this and not chaffing and redirecting the help somewhere. He's genuinely look, he's focused. He's focused on on the interviewer. He's not focused on both of them. So he's not doing, you know, what what chase often calls kind of looking at the threat working out where is the threat. It's not looking to exist. He's not looking through the glass window to go. What are they thinking sitting behind that glass window? You know, he's very, very clearly involved forward focused in taking people through the story, his body narration, what I would just say is his mind, his mind of the stuff is really good. It's the same each time. It's the same as the mind stuff later on. So I can't see that he's making up stories here to fit. Just as everybody said the batons, the illustrators are congruent. They come at the right time and they're the right kind of movements there. His head is nodding in acceptance throughout. I mean go and look at it. See if you can find any head shakes at all. He's forward in acceptance of the situation. I think if he felt under threat at this point, we would see more shaking of head from him as he wants to get out of this situation. I would just say there is potentially one adapter. There's just one adapter where his hand goes up to his nose here. Now look, touching your nose doesn't mean anybody's lying. Just so you know this. This only happens once. I am really giving just a very strong opinion here. I'm playing the casino here. But because I see this once and at the point of she'd be dead, blown a big hole in her, I'm going to say this is a bit of reverse engineering that there is a worry and a tension that she may well be very badly injured. He doesn't quite know at this point how bad the injury would be and maybe somewhere in his mind he does suspect there is the possibility that it is a bad, bad injury and death is an option. I'm only saying that because it only happens once. It's incongruent with everybody else. There is no reason to touch the nose at this point and I'm going to say it again just because somebody touches their nose doesn't mean they're deceptive, doesn't mean they're lying. I'm only saying that because of the huge context that this is in. But this is from my point of view, clean as a whistle. I say the same as everybody else is saying it's very different from when the circumstances then changes to there's now a death, there's now a real, a massive catastrophe. Now the press is on him. Now the eyes of the world are on him and his behavior starts to change around that. Chase, can you change our mind about any of that or are you with us on that? With all of you guys and let me add a couple of things. You guys talk about half my list here so which is fantastic which we should be doing. We should be agreeing on a lot of things that helps people to understand that this stuff is pretty reliable. Let's talk about a couple of things you guys didn't. He's comfortable doing something that interrogators call processing potentials. In a lot of criminal interrogations you'll see why do you think this happened? Who do you think did it? Did you talk about it to your friends? Did you tell your family about this? So he is extremely comfortable and it's evident that he has processed every possible thing that could have happened. When a guilty person would just say I don't know, I don't know what happened, you know, it was a mistake, it was an accident. And he's basically following just that little guidance on the back of your insurance card. Don't admit guilt and don't say you're extremely sorry about something because he's not doing that and it's probably from a cell phone call to his attorney which does not mean guilty, it just probably means intelligent and his attorney's told him not to do that and which is why that most people have a problem with him starting his phrase with I can just say that's probably from the attorney. So the reason he's sitting in this interrogation room without an attorney is because of something we call the Assumptive Assistance Fallacy and this is how Colombo solved crimes. This is how he tricked the people into thinking that they were helping out with the crime. This is likely how he was brought into the room and he's also coming in to help. He is genuinely there to help. He's saying here's what you should be asking Hannah right at the end. He said the gun didn't have to be important and he wants them to know that this is going to help in the investigation. So there's some assistance going on and right when he said he also says if it was a 45 full round she would be dead which I think suggests he is not completely sure about the gun and he's probably hopeful about his friend actually being alive. There's one moment in here he puts his hand on his chest and it's when he says I'm not a gun person. I think there's a little issue maybe going on or him just displaying some innocence. I don't own guns. He's been shooting him in movies for 30 years so he probably knows more than even a lot of gun people but most importantly here most importantly in my opinion he uses great body narration. You see him narrating the story. He uses a lot of it but he uses the exact same body narration when he is comfortably saying that someone deliberately put a round into the gun. He comfortably illustrates a deliberate putting into the gun, putting a bullet into the gun. That I think in any person's mind who felt that they were at least partially guilty that would be restricted if that behavior existed at all they'd probably mute themselves for that physically but if he tried to do that behavior it would look different and it would look severely restricted compared to all of his other ones so he shows no hesitation during that deliberately putting in the bullet in the chamber movement. That's all I got on this Do you think that any part of this incident that occurred was intentional? I can only say this which is to me to place a bullet and position a bullet that is a live round to make sure that that bullet is in the chamber if I were to squeeze the trigger in a rehearsal that that bullet came out someone has to have extraordinary access to that weaponry to do that. I can't imagine somebody walked around but a round there was a .45 caliber round you see other people on the set were speculated it was a .45 caliber round she'd be dead. It would have blown a big hole in her and so we're wondering was the projectile that went in her some foreign material stuck and it was an ax and something came out of the barrel they didn't check they always check but to your experience with these I've never heard anything like this in my life ever. I've never heard of a projectile coming out of a prop gun that went through a person's body in regards to being a smaller woman that the bullet went in here I'm told went in here came out here her shoulder or whatever and went into his body I've never heard of that in my life I don't know any projectile in a gun in a flash prop gun that could accomplish that. Now if somebody put a live round in there accidentally see a very important question for Hannah is have you ever commingled live rounds with theatrical rounds in your kit because they're forbidden to do that according to the union rules and the safety rules for all the unions you're not allowed to do that because of the fear of what would happen to a single. So whether someone accidentally and I can't even imagine deliberately placed a live round in that gun I've never heard of that in my life and I don't know anything about what happened but what I know is that in a live round you'd have a recoil usually when I shot that gun and it went off I didn't shoot it when it went off I didn't intend for it to happen to happen because I've always told because I'm not a gun person I don't have a gun they always tell me they asked me to simulate the recoil when I shoot the Colt which is a big gun 45 caliber bullet they always teach me we should go action I go get back here boom and then they take my hand and go boom and have to kick because there's no kick in a flash round and this time I don't recall there being any kick either that's important alright now let's throw it around the room and wrap it up in 30 seconds or less and tell what we think is going on here what's happened Mark you want to go first yeah look if you have any suspicion about Baldwin and that he might have some kind of I guess conscious or even unconscious involvement in putting a a live round in a gun and firing it on purpose you know think again think again I would say based on what we've seen here there's nothing going on for him around this take your eyes off him if you're investigating this in your mind you'd want to be investigating completely elsewhere chase I'll just say one thing here it's easy for a lot of us to see experts on YouTube who don't have a whole lot of experience they've read some books they've taken a few courses I just want you to just process the fact that before you say actor he can trick everyone on planet earth everyone that's on your YouTube screen right now has surpassed the 10,000, 20,000 and 30,000 hour marks in interviewing people a very long time ago and many of us have specifically interrogated people that were very well trained to resist interrogation to fake stuff and do a lot of intelligence training so the actor thing is a great if you just want to dismiss it but a lot of us can see through that stuff especially with actors and actors are humans too and we are special we specialize in looking at humans so that's what we're seeing there Greg what do you got? Yeah I would back you up I mean I taught interrogation resistance and I taught people tools to use and those tools come out it's just human nature he's not doing any of that we don't see any resistance yeah can he act and can he do something sure but it's not the same thing I would take you a couple of steps we're going to hear everybody say but he had his finger on the trigger we saw it remember we just covered Johnny Depp who got his finger cut off and couldn't remember details after it is normal after a catastrophe for your brain to focus on the problem not what happened leading into it so a lot of times people will not have the details that's one of the things we look for we also notice that his story doesn't fundamentally change between here and Stephanopoulos Scott you pointed it out does his stress level rise sure he now knows someone's dead he's now been stalked we saw him on the roadside so yes of course his body language changed because his stress levels are different not higher different they're probably very high right here but I think Mark you hit it dead on if you're looking at him and thinking he went and put around you're chasing the wrong dog Scott your turn yeah I agree with you guys and how many times you've been in a training class in your training or teaching somebody says how do you interrogate what do you do if you have to interrogate an interrogator don't they know all the things you're trying to do and all that you can keep it up for a little while you can act for a little while but after a while in between those little sections that's when you get all your info pretty much after a while it just goes away you know you can act like even though we know a lot of stuff if we got interrogated it's different it comes it hits you different it comes they know you know that because I went through Sear and I'm an interrogator and you know there's stuff worked on me so yeah yeah yeah and you trained them how to do that too and would still work so as you go through that people say you're right when it says are these an actor he can act like that no they can't they can do it in front of a camera and nobody's given them any pressure when there's pressure on it's different it's a different situation now back to this video I think it's going to be a lot of fallout from this as far as responsibility goes obviously and I think it's going to go partially to him because he was a producer on this you know and he was the guy that pulled the trigger so we'll see what happens there but when you get a situation that I've been looking into this and seeing what people were saying that were there and all that apparently the crew was sleeping in the cars their food was nasty and they weren't respecting him nobody felt good about what was going on there's like this general feeling of malaise and the whole thing nobody was motivated they're almost disgruntled so when you have that going on no respect for it that's when you start hiring at least expensive people to help you do this stuff not in her case the woman that got shot but a lot of I think the crew and the way you treat them that way I think you're going to have an interest and I think that's what happened so I think most of it's going to go back to it's just my opinion my personal opinion I think that armorer is going to get it I think it's all going to go back to her because that's the person the most responsible everyone is responsible it went down that chain but it's a chain of responsibility that had so many every link was broken in it obviously or that wouldn't have happened that wouldn't have happened I don't think but that's just my opinion so I'm pounding here you know Scott let me just say something about that memory piece because you know people might still go look you know why can't he remember what happened with that that gun and to your point Greg I want everybody to think about adrenaline okay and when a disaster a gun goes off and it's going to make a different sound although he doesn't it says that it didn't feel any different it's going to make a different sound people are going to start screaming there's going to be blood his adrenaline is going to spike adrenaline does a whole bunch of stuff and just Google it and you will find out what it does to the body and to the brain but one of the things it does to the brain is it wipes short-term memory that's why if you do any kind of public speaking okay and you've learned your you've learned your presentation and you know it and you know it and you know it and the moment you walk on and you see more than five people who you don't know which to the brain is lots of strangers adrenaline will spike and everything that you try to remember about that presentation disappears completely because under stress and pressure your brain your fight-and-flight system goes well what would I need to know about the last few minutes to get out of this situation alive and I imagine Greg that's exactly what happened to him adrenaline spikes short-term memory gets blown out and he now doesn't really know what happened in those moments beforehand yeah use this or not guys but I'll tell you the reason we train people the way we did at seer is we take them out of thinking brain and put them in reactive brain and we train that brain because when you get in that situation you can't access all of the intelligence you have but you can respond to things that you've been trained to do so chase your Walmart bag and all those things came from there right yeah yeah and so to that point Greg when I'm training people for public speaking for doing a speech I stress test them I spike their adrenaline you know in the practice situation I have all kinds of nasty ways to do it and unpleasant ways to do it but I spike their adrenaline so they get that sense of wow that's what it's like under real stress and pressure to deliver this without that they're going out untrained perfect all right fellas I think this was a good one and I'll see you next time I'm doing the behavior panel alright chase good luck with your thing today man yeah chase oh no oh you're f***ing with us nah nah nah I'm not behind it damn it you got me man I could see the shadow I could see the shadow oh man you got me good we're going to talk about Alec Baldwin Greg tell us about the videos we're going to see yeah these videos are from an interview with George Stephanopoulos about the rust shooting where a cinematographer was killed and the director injured that's all you need to know the Ukrainian born cinematographer quickly jailed with Baldwin the people who watched the daily said that her work was beautiful she was someone who was loved by everyone who worked with and liked by everyone who worked with and admired but admired by everybody who um who worked with her alright Mark what do you got yeah okay so first off let's just look at how this whole thing is set up it's advertised as Baldwin unscripted so clearly that's a piece of PR I would say in that there are worryers hey this is all going to be scripted isn't it we want to really hear this hear the truth of this and they've kind of seen us off at the past there by going no no no this is totally unscripted in order to counter measure any worries we might have about this so that obviously worries me in the first place about this um now that it's that it may be unscripted doesn't mean that it's not designed and it's not structured and so we're going to see that the interviewer there has um has notes uh my guess is as they've structured out these questions it's not blasé as to how this is going out there is going to be some preparation more than some preparation involved in this uh the lighting there we can see that Baldwin is very you know uh there is a shadow side just so happens that the shadow side the dark side is gun shooting side as we will his dominant hand as we'll see later on you know these things can be accidental but in really good production it's really often not very accidental that that's the way things are set up so already potentially yeah unscripted but by no means unstructured or undesigned in any way let's have a look at the rhetorical process that he uses there or structure that he uses there loved by everyone liked by everyone and admired that that rule of three piece is actually beautifully structured not necessarily written but could be scripted I mean beautifully put together and that um admired area that's the moment that um pushes him into an emotion now I guess the worry from people is is that emotion real is it true here's what worries me about it is the shading of the face could be shame could be shame there's a lot of good reasons why it could be shame but what I've noticed about people who are overcome by emotion is they forget to protect themselves from everybody seeing it feels to me like he wants to protect people from seeing that now is that because of the shame of people seeing the emotion or is it that it's not quite good enough he doesn't think his performance of that is good enough I'm not sure I'd like to hear from everybody else as to what they think about this but I tell you it doesn't ring quite right for me Greg what do you got about this one yes I'm gonna start by saying when we talk about scripted I think most of this is unscripted by that I mean I don't think he had lines prepared for everything he had areas that he's willing to talk about those things that he's uncomfortable talking about where he's been coached and I'll point those out because they're pretty easy to see you can tell that somebody said stay away from this and you'll see it late in the videos but here I do see I do see a little grief muscle in him and whether that's acting you know I'm not a great Alec Baldwin fan I know people love him people hate him I kind of you know Luke Worm don't really care a couple of movies he's done a like and that kind of thing I've never thought of him as you know he's not Anthony Hopkins so I don't expect him to be a perfect actor and in fact if he's doing this I'm impressed I'm actually more impressed than I recall him being as an actor because his grief muscle does engage although lightly and him putting his hand up could be face blocking because of shame or that mark we won't really know I mean certainly he feels you can tell he feels something about this woman as he's starting to talk about her it does look it overtakes him rather than something he's prepared I don't see him what I call going down the well of course he is a real actor not the people we usually see trying to act and lie who find a way to draw themselves down into a well to start crying but so it kind of overwhelms him it looks like so I think it looks real enough to me considering I don't typically think of him as that fantastic an actor Mark you may have a different opinion but it's his normal speech pattern that sales pitch that he always has when he's talking where he goes up at the end down when he's telling you but up at the end he has she was what word does he use admire that word is a cell that is a big cell that is that hey here's who she is I also don't see in the reason I don't think this is really prepared and scripted I don't see a whole lot of left eye accessing I see him talking and thinking and we'll see him as he talks storytelling in a way that he does as a person if you've seen him on like late night interviews when he's storytelling and talking about he chase you called body narration he uses his whole body to tell the story and we're going to see a lot of it using illustrators his cadence is pretty consistent and that kind of thing and his case cadence even changes when he goes down into this kind of emotional feel so that's what I got this early in I'd say yeah okay I could he be acting sure but if he is it's probably better than most of his work in the past my opinion chase what do you got so I have an acting friend who is on a bunch of soap operas like young in the restless specifically and he is one of the stars of young in the restless I called him we know him figure this out yeah you guys met him and I talked to a few other people and one of the tricks that I've heard from several people today that is used is peppermint extract to make somebody cry and I think it's interesting in this clip the eyes the upper eyelid goes from normal color to completely red in just about no time and this is an unusual response for anybody crying and I think all of us here have talked to people who are in the worst day of their life and there's only marks I think this is interesting there's only marks on the spots where his hand was touching his face and I think the instantaneous sniffing was not long in my opinion not long enough for tears to form it's more likely to be an irritant or something that like a peppermint extract that might have cleared the sinuses and in this video there's some grief muscle but there's a lacking movement right here which if you ever see somebody in grief or shame it's called the chin boss this movement kind of moving up right there is missing for this video and finally the side of his nose that his hand was touching which is his left side of his nose was red just as well as his eyelids were red I think that's interesting not saying that it absolutely happened but I think that it's definitely something worth looking into but it's something worth considering for the video especially since it's such a pervasive technique that from what I've heard today Scott what do you think? I agree with you so did you watch the, did you do frame by frame for the chin? Chase? He does get some dimples in there but man that comes on pretty quick the whole crying thing hits him pretty fast I agree with you we're dealing with an actor so most everything is dramatic his head tells just a little bit when he's trying to say you know or tell something serious his head gets a tilt on it when he starts talking about something that he's trying to point home to validate that statement there are no tears a lot of sniffling and aren't any tears and I think the forehead movement and the grief muscle the reason we're seeing just a little tiny bit I call it tactical Botox because he really doesn't look like he's been Botox but man he has you can tell they have been when their eyebrows start dumping down there in the middle they start pointing down almost like the evil whatever it is and if you look at his eyebrows I think this is one on his left goes up and is almost pointing up at looking for Sputnik 1 or something so he's got that what I call a crash right there in the middle of those heading down so we do see a little bit but there's not enough there to be able to tell if it's true grief or not because it didn't come up with that upside down horseshoe thing but I agree with you Greg it's there but it's very small and what's in the in the chin boss is minimal minimal even frame by frame you have to go through and watch it's minimal but that thing passes by so fast it you know I'm sure you may have been holding that up and then boom it got away from him but that was my quick to be a full on emotional cry in my opinion anyway other than that everything looks normal and as it should in the situation all right the thing I find interesting about grief muscle is it can be different in different people we've seen folks who it's really pronounced and folks who it's just like a little arch Chris I was his name Christopher McDaniel the guy in Macon Georgia with the weird little forehead thing Scott so it could be different on different people and when people cry it can look very different yeah yeah Ukrainian born cinematographer quickly jailed with Baldwin the people who watched the daily said that her work was beautiful she was someone who was loved by everyone who worked with and admired but admired by everybody who um who worked with her here we go and you were rehearsing that scene was it a natural rehearsal there's some disagreement about that whether it was a formal rehearsal at that time this is a marking rehearsal where I'm going to show her she's standing next to the camera she's like this you're me she's got a monitor here the camera that's here filming that way she takes a monitor that is his monitor the operator and turns it toward her it swivels and she says to me hold the gun lower go to your right okay right there I do that and show it a little bit lower and she's kidding me to position the gun everything is in her direction she's guiding me through how she wants me to hold the gun for this angle and I draw the gun out and I find a mark I draw the gun out and what's really urgent is the gun wasn't meant to be fired in that angle so if you're shooting directly into the camera lens I'm not shooting into the camera lens I'm shooting just off just off in her direction I'm holding the gun where she told me to hold it which ended up being aimed right below her armpit that was what I was told I don't know this was a completely incidental shot an angle that may not have ended up in the film at all alright Chase what do you got I think it's I know you guys are going to cover some of the behaviors in here I want to cover a couple of the words and some of the words that are there and some of the words that are missing from this this monologue here he uses the the word urgent so what's really urgent is blah blah wasn't meant to be fired at that angle and then later he's not using her name in the videos that we've seen so far so we're on video two we're not hearing the victim's name being mentioned at all which is a strong data point for dissociation from guilt or dissociation wanting to separate yourself from that person in the eyes of the person that's watching so keep an eye or maybe an ear on that in the coming videos it does the name come out I want you to be listening to see if you hear the name be used in some of the videos that are coming up. Greg what do you think? Yeah so when you say words urgent I think what he's trying to get out now I have two words written down urgent and incidental urgent and incidental on the side of the road when we did his video he talked about it being an incidental shooting and I was like what the hell does that mean well now I understand what he means it was just a thing it was not going to be part of the show so it was an accidental thing accidental incidental shooting as he referred to it there I mean this guy is we've seen him his whole life in front of a camera so we know his baseline when he's being interviewed is that animated kind of guy and he's doing that but his story tells with his whole body he puts you in the position he makes you part of the story and that's who he is he's just bringing him in when he says that incidental I wonder is that scripted and the reason it's come up twice is it's something that's in his head he's been told hey this is incidental it's not it was not intended to be part of the movie and something went wrong I don't know but it comes up twice so it it means something it's not a word I would typically use all the time or nor would he and other than that the only thing I see in terms of scripted is that he's trying to avoid certain words and get certain words out like that urgent word that meant something to him it's urgent that you know this I think is what he means by it not the thing that is urgent the other thing is I don't see him accessing laugh don't seem doing any of that kind of stuff like he's recalling something he's memorized and then and then he does it look off to the he's to the right and pulling doing that pulling taffy move as he's trying to get approval from the guy and then his head drops down to the right and as he says incidental his head is shaking no as if you know futility you see that in him but all of his arrows are aligned in the story he's telling which is kind of interesting one interesting note is when he talks about these dummy rounds because I'm going to assume most people that watch us may or may not know a thing about guns and it's okay for us to talk about this when he talks about dummy rounds what he means is a round that looks exactly like a regular round around is a combination of a cartridge with powder and a cap and a bullet and the bullet is the thing that goes out the barrel whether you know that or not some are gonna go yeah of course but some of you don't know and in a blank there is no bullet at the end they put these bullets in the chamber in the little wheel part of the gun so that folks like me don't look at it and go we're not shooting anybody with that when they're holding it up to the camera and so they have these dummies and it's only as good as how well they build those dummies I don't know what Hollywood standard is it could have no cap so you can tell from the back it could have something else but if it doesn't you would have to literally take that round out of that gun and shake it around pick it up to know the weight difference is the only way you'd be able to tell so it's really easy for us to assign blame and say he should have checked but in the kind of gun we're talking about you would literally chase you know you'd have to take this little thumb ramrod and push each round out turn the wheel take each round out and check it and so I can understand why if using cosmetic or dummy rounds he personally would not check it every time and that's you'll hear a lot of people saying that I'm not taking his side one way or the other but I will say there's logic to his discussion here and I think that's an important part of this tab Scott what do you have all right again we're seeing he's an excellent storyteller you know he's in dramatic and his thing is stories is telling stories through film as they do so that's why he sets the scene up perfectly I mean it's almost like you're there as he describes it that's really great again his illustrators are large and that's what helps do that they're descriptive illustrators they go along part of the definition of illustrators is not just emphasizing specific words or phrases but building things in boxes chase has a word for it what's the word you use chase I use body narration body narration great work great yeah so is they're really really descriptive and people communicate in three ways they they when you run into a person who's an auditory person they'll talk about hearing things and the way things sound it sounds good to me that sounds those kind of things you hear a person who's into the visual communication like most people are in movies or people are into movies they'll when they talk about things they'll say look like this here's what looks like to me that brooch she's wearing looks a little heavy or whatever and then you have kinesthetic which is the person who talks about things how things feel and everything so he's a visual person that's why he's always making these big illustrators describing and actually building pictures of these things we see he gets more into it here in a few minutes there's an edit when he said in between she's getting me and she's getting me to position the gun then there's the edit then he says everything is in her direction so I don't know what they got out there but there's a complete change of scene there and if you listen to it you'll hear it that's what first got me paying attention to it and then when I watch it he's a little bit forward then he's all back and everything looks different and you can hear Stephanopoulos say something during that edit which they've tried to block out but it came through on the on the other mic or in the room sound the gun thing he says what's really urgent is like you guys were saying he used that the last time we we broke his stuff down he said it's urgent that you know or it's urgent that some of this must be one of these little words he uses all the time and then when he says the gun was meant to be fired wasn't meant to be fired in that angle he's smiling and the smile stays at the end of that I think this is a first little brick in and we're seeing in his wall of I didn't do it it's not my fault in other words and I'll bet you a hundred bucks when it comes to the trial we'll hear that that similar phrase if not the very same thing how he talks about how he sets that up the very same way I know I'm under the impression that's going to happen and after the next question his posture is perfect everything straightens up whoops and he's sitting like this and he looks he looks pro he looks like everything looks confident and all that he says I'm holding the gun where she told me to hold it again there's brick two he starts building this little wall of it's not me it's I was a victim here as well and I agree with it bugs me doesn't say her name so far he hasn't said her name up to this point so far all right Mark where do you got yeah I agree that smile comes and I think we've seen it before in other work of his that we've we all interviews or roadside stops that we've looked at that smile comes when he believes somebody else has made a mistake and I do believe we see it there and we will see it later on so I totally agree with that what I would say it like you said Scott he's a very good mime I know people like it when I break down words mine from the Latin mimosis to copy so he's very good at copying stuff and doing what we call illusion remind which is to create the illusion of something that's there that isn't actually physical so he's great at going hey look at me you know she's looking at the monitor like this he's very clear about cocking you know the gun back here and later on as well so so and very definite look as an actor one of the things you need to be able to do especially in film especially in film is hit your mark exactly and time and time again get props get items get your face get your hand exactly where the director of photography wants your face and your hands because they're trying to create the most beautiful picture possible so you have to be able to do that time and time again so we should expect his mime his geography of this story to be spot on and and we should expect that that it doesn't change at any point and I believe it is spot on I believe we see him describe this very very very clearly and he says with downward intonation I'm not shooting at the camera lens okay and he's mapped that out as well he's very clear tonally that that he isn't shooting at the camera lens and he's already mapped that out for us and and when he says that as well his hands are on his knees there's no adapters there's no self soothers so I think you know the biggest thing I take from this particular piece of footage here is this is what he looks like when he's telling you the truth okay this is what he looks like when he's very very clear of exactly what happened and then there's that slight upturn of the mouth there and slight smile of this is what he looks like as well when he thinks somebody else has done something wrong and he also does start to set up in his narrative there that the he was under the control or under the orders of the director of photography as well so he's already started to shift I think as as chase might say that kind of locus of control away from him and towards somebody else so interesting second film there that's what I got for you Scott I think to your point when he when there's the edit there I think he was asked a present tense question to put him in the present moment because he switches to past tense to present so I am or she's doing this to me so those are all present okay so I think the question that Stephanopoulos asked him was something okay so you're here and you're doing this so what's happening now so a question to kind of put him in present and get him to describe the scene better I think that's what was edited out and you were rehearsing that scene was it a natural rehearsal there's some disagreement about that whether it was a formal rehearsal at that time this is a marking rehearsal where I'm going to show her she's standing next to the camera she's like this you're me she's got a monitor here the camera is here filming that way she takes a monitor that is his monitor the operator and turns it toward her it swivels and she says to me hold the gun lower go to your right okay right there I do that now show it a little bit lower and she's getting me to position the gun everything is in her direction she's guiding me through how she wants me to hold the gun for this angle and I draw the gun out and I find a mark I draw the gun out if I don't cut and what's really urgent is the gun wasn't meant to be fired in that angle so if you're shooting directly into the camera lens I'm not shooting into the camera lens I'm shooting just off in her direction I'm holding the gun where she told me to hold it which ended up being aimed right below her armpit that was what I was told I don't know this was a completely incidental shot an angle that may not have ended up in the film at all but we kept doing this and then I said to her now in this scene I'm going to clock the gun and I said do you want to see that? and she said yes so I take the gun and I start to clock the gun I'm not going to pull the trigger I said do you see that she will just cheat it down a little bit like that and I clock the gun can you see that can you see that and she says I let go of the hammer, the gun and out the gun goes off I let go of the hammer the gun goes off at the moment that was the moment the gun went off it wasn't in the script for the trigger to be pulled well the trigger wasn't pulled I didn't pull the trigger so you never pull the trigger no no no no I would never point a gun at anyone to pull a trigger at them never no that was the training that I had you don't point a gun at me and pull the trigger on day one of my instruction in this business people said to me never take a gun and go click click click click click because even though it's incremental you damage the firing pin on the gun if you do that don't do that all right Greg what do you got so here now I start to see him delivering his story if you don't believe he has something he wants to get out whether it's a scripted story or as you put it Scott building a wall when he hits points he wants to get across he double states every one of those key points and if you can look for it when he says things like I did not point at her I would not point at her I did not I would never point and pull the trigger the interesting piece for me so go back and listen and you'll hear three different places go back and listen to the three different places he doubles the statement never never and then he looks away when he's telling his story and when he's showing how he cocked the gun and all those kinds of things no eye contact at all when he starts to make real eye contact is when he's talking about well my training boom boom boom boom boom and he's pulling his finger like he's firing a trigger he makes good eye contact so I think it's important to him to get across the meaning of what matters and then when there's something is throw away for example this you know this gun training from his first time that pull the trigger pull the trigger pull the trigger then he makes good eye contact so interesting interesting that he's trying to get across content that he is double telling certain points and he shows this taste or disdain or something right after that that was the training I had that kind of half faced draw back the side of the face something's going on his head there here's the thing we can see what's going on we can't tell you what is causing it what inside his brain is causing that it could be something internal he's disappointed in itself that he has something to do with that it could be that he is pissed at Stephanopoulos because he asked him a hard question that he was not ready for it could be the situation the entire situation we can't tell that we can see the the symptoms we can't tell the cause and that's we always say we don't read minds as much as scott's friends think we're in the mind reading business we're actually looking for symptoms and we try to figure it out there chase what do you got yeah I agree with you we're still not seeing a mention of the victim's name which is a data point here especially during these heated intense moments we're not seeing that stuff but we're seeing a ton of repetition and as a behavioral expert if I'm ever talking about brainwashing or this mind control stuff and how to control people's thoughts if I could sum it all up in one word it would be repetition and there is a ton of repetition here he's saying can you see that can you see that can you see that we got three times he says I let go of the hammer the gun and the gun goes off that's twice repeated and that was the moment the gun went off repeated twice again trigger wasn't pulled I didn't pull the trigger you don't pull the trigger I would never pull the trigger then he says click click click click over and over again there's tons of repetition here that I have never once in my life of analyzing video and interrogations and all kinds of videos I've never seen statements like this with this much repetition inside the statement typically when I see lots of repetition there was probably a bullet list that an attorney provided to that person or there was a bulletized list with some very very key data points that need to be hammered down so the person by default starts to repeat those things and he said you never point a gun at somebody the entire point of having guns and movie sets 90% of the time is to point them at somebody and then pull the trigger so when we say like this weapon safety laws would have stopped everything maybe not because a lot of times in the movies that's the purpose of having the gun there there's gunfights and guns are being pointed at people there's a lack of emotion throughout this there's a lack of emotion throughout speaking about the event on the face and this is scientifically proven and peer reviewed journals all over the world that we have facial expressions that are pretty much universal and we're not seeing hardly any of that throughout this and there's a lack of hesitancy here which is unusual for a person who's just gone through something traumatic this is their first big tv appearance to talk about everything we we would typically see some hesitation here some stopping to think which we will see in a future video but there's it's very on message here so we're seeing a lot of a lot of maybe not I won't say scripted because the whole thing's titled unscripted but there is there is some rehearsal I'll say prepared content yeah prepared content Mark yeah so so I agree that repetition of those words is it PR message that's a possibility is it self soothing this is a stress point for him and so the repetition is around self soothing could be that um is it even maybe that he isn't getting the response that he wants from the interviewer you know I pulled it back I let it go and that's when the gun went off maybe he was expecting the interviewer to go oh that's when the gun went off right so you didn't pull the trick no I never pulled it so you didn't pull the trigger I think he might be expecting a moment of revelation in the audience and the interviewer and he doesn't get that back and so he repeats again like this is the moment where you suddenly realize I'm not culpable this is an accident I don't know which one of those it is possibly it's all of the above I'm not quite sure or some of some of one and some of the other but but it is interesting I Greg I get it as well the disdain on you don't point a gun at someone and pull the trigger that's for me when I see the disdain now disdain or contempt it tends to be a social thing it tends to be that somebody has done something wrong and just as Greg said it could be internal or external I did something against the group or somebody else did something against the group so is it that look he really should have known not to just half cock and let go of it should have known that and so it's disdain against himself or somebody should have checked the gun more thoroughly it's disdain against the other person but ultimately that we see disdain that means a social rule has been broken and he says look first day first day I was taught this so like this is he goes back to his initiation within the group and says this is the thing that you never ever break and somebody somewhere has broken the rules of our group but again let's just lastly go back to the geography of this we see that the finger is straight he's telling us I don't have my finger on the trigger there you know so so the geography makes a lot of sense and he's a good mime and he should be able to reproduce exactly what's going on so so I buy a lot of what he's saying there I'm interested in the repetition just as everybody else is Scott what do you got all right um after you just he describes up to the point of the of the discharge after he talks about all the moments coming up to that everything changes he starts talking a little bit quieter he gets really still as you would because you're coming up on something pretty heavy and then um and we haven't seen that up to this point obviously um and I think the disdain and stuff you guys are talking about that contempt I don't think that's what it is when you look at trump and and greg pointed this out he does a sniff thing every time he makes a point or he scores something he does this and it's kind of barney barney five ask is the idea I got from that and I did the thing where I slowed down so and sped it up so down there is no sniff there but I think that's what I think that's what that is that that's what looks like to me that's what we're all about was it looked like to each one of us so I think we're seeing as him's going like that I don't think it's it's uh um I don't think it's the state it could be more because I started thinking about that when you said that because when I first saw it I said oh and amber actually pointed out to me said look at that and I was like yeah but it's a tough call on that but I think it's more of counting things he that he scored on because at that point what he's talking about there again is going to is going to come up in in his uh court case against that little brick put up for his wall which is he's got a pretty good foundation for it so far all right that's what I got good hey one quick note I wondered about that scott the only reason I didn't think that is because mark what you said about him repeating I wondered if he was insecure as a reason he's repeating repeating repeating and then I thought well he he didn't win he doesn't like he's winning to me so I had the same thought about the trump thing I thought maybe he's just doing something like that but yeah he's yeah I think he's insecure in this video yeah it's a tough call on that one but we kept doing this new so then I said to her now in this scene I'm going to cock the gun I said do you want to see that and she said yes so I take the gun and I start to cock the gun I'm not going to pull the trigger I said do you see that she was well just cheat it down and tilt it down a little bit like that and I'm cocked the gun I can you see that can you see that can you see that and she says and I let go of the hammer the gun and the gun goes off I let go of the hammer the girl that goes off at the moment that was the moment the gun went off yeah that was the moment they go and it wasn't in the script for the trigger to be pulled well the trigger wasn't pull I didn't pull the trigger so you never pulled the trigger no no no I would never point to gun to anyone to pull a trigger at them. Never. No, that was the training that I had. You don't point a gun at me and pull a trigger. On day one of my instruction in this business, people said to me, never take a gun and go click, click, click, click, click, because even though it's incremental, you damage the firing pin on the gun if you do that. Don't do that. Right. So you have this Colt 45, you just pulled. The hammer as far back as I could without cocking the actual one. And you're holding onto the hammer. I'm holding that. I'm just showing you, how about that? Does that work? Do you see that? Do you see that? She goes, yeah, that's good. The hammer, bang, the gun goes. Everyone is horrified. They're shocked. It's loud. They don't have their earplugs in. The gun was supposed to be empty. I was told I was handed an empty gun. If there were cosmetic rounds, nothing with a charge at all, a flash round, nothing. She goes down. I thought to myself, did she faint? All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so I see a lot of whole body illustration again. And then really over the top, bang. I mean, he looks excited in a way. If I shot someone, I probably would go and then bang. But who knows? I mean, he's a storyteller. That's what he does. The only time he makes eye contact and is focused on Stephanopolis is when he's not giving details. Is that something that he's been coached? Don't know. Is it just instinctive for him not to look him in the eyes when he's talking about something that's this big a deal? I can't tell you that. I can tell you he does not look Stephanopolis in the eyes when he's working through details. That might mean he's trying to remember something. He's trying to remember the details as tightly and accurately as he can. But he does a lot of downright eye-accessing. And I know you guys are not on the same plate. I am exactly about eye movement. But downright eye-accessing is about as close to a universal as I go. Most everybody, when they're thinking about something emotional, is going to go drop down into their right. He does a lot of that. And then you can see he's trying to sync with him. He'll turn his head to him a little. And he's trying to sync with him and get some approval. And then when he's talking about the gun was supposed to be empty, he turns his head to a different location than he's had to now and kind of does that drawing with his eyes for acceptance. He's doing an oblique angle as he's talking to him. Then he goes downright, as I was told, his illustrators sync and then his face goes to some kind of confusion or something going on with him when I wondered, did she faint? So there's something going on in his head here. I think those are real feelings. And I don't think this is, if he were trying to project powerful emotion, it wouldn't look like that. Confusion would probably not be the emotion he came up with. He would come up with sorrow or grief or something like that. So I don't think that part's scripted. I think he's telling the truth, how he felt, what he saw. And that's what I got. Scott, what do you have? All right. Now he's all worked up and excited real big. So he's, his cadence speeds up again and his finger, his fake finger gun comes up a little bit higher as well. Now, let me ask you guys this. When you are, when we're explaining something for a shoot and a gun, do you do this or do you do this? Or do you do this? I do the grip. So it would look like that. I do the grip. You know? Your finger would do it. Or that, yeah. So that's really odd. It does look like he's, I don't think he's around as many guns as he's coming on like he is. I don't think he's familiar with actually going out and shooting them. So good or bad, I don't know. Maybe just don't set. And we don't think of a gun as something for a set. We're thinking about bracing because the impact and shooting is part of the reason why. Yeah. So he starts talking even faster. And then, especially when he says, I was told I was handing an empty gun. That's beating up there. That's understandable because he's excited about this at this point. Then he said, she goes down. I thought to myself, did she faint? Let me ask you something. We're in a room and you hear a gunshot and you see somebody on the floor. Two people, one guy screaming. And one girl on the floor, a woman on the floor. Are you gonna say, I wonder if she fainted? No? You're not gonna wonder if she fainted. You're gonna know exactly what happened. You're gonna know exactly what happened at that point. So this is where he starts to get a little bit on my nerves when he starts down this road. And I'll leave it there. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, on that exact moment, Scott, I get an asymmetrical turn up of the mouth. It's not enough for me to go, that's Dupers delight. I don't think it's that. It's not enough for me to go, it's disgust or disdain. But something is odd about that. It doesn't, something's odd about that, that moment. Yeah, I agree. There's a bang, there's a gun and there's a bang and somebody falls over. The first thing I would worry is something's loaded. Somebody's been shot, that's not somebody fainting. So, but anyway, look, look how clear he is about bang. The gun goes off and he does this strike, this out gesture, you're out gesture. So really, really emphatic at that point. Again, this is the body language of a storyteller, a good mime who's telling you exactly what went on. No doubts about it on that. Then very interesting for me, like Ronnie does this lean forward and side into the face. It might be that side on the camera, I can't remember. But essentially he's doing the mime of just talking into the interviewer's ear because he wants to then say something quite intimate to him. It's this idea of let me tell you something just between you and me. The gun was supposed to be empty. The gun was supposed to be empty. And then we see what I talked about before that what I would call that righteous smile from him. And look, this is between you and me, this is somebody else's fault. I'm not culpable on this. Now look, eventually courts will decide that. But ultimately I think he has a very fixed idea at the moment that somebody else is culpable and between you and me he should let people know that. Little bit secretly, little bit covertly, just so we all know. Let's not shout it out loud, let's just say it quietly. That's all I've got on that one. Are we all done? Chase? A regulator's area. All right, let me go again. Chase, what do you got? Of course you are, of course you are, but I want people to see, I want people to see how it could have been. You know, how it could have been. I want to see just how this, this, this, this panelist is what a great handover looks like, okay? And that's all I've got on that one. What do you got? What do you got? Oh, you talked over my handover. You know I'm going to have to do it again. Everybody looks serious. And we're all talking over my handover. Quiet, please. Quiet on the set, quiet on the set, okay? And that's all I've got on that one. Chase, what do you got? Thanks for being so professional, Mark. Thank you. Let me start off by saying there's more repetition here. There's more repetition just like last time and there's more repetition here if you didn't see that yet. But I want you to think just of the person we're looking at, not as a normal person. This is almost an outlier type of person which is when we typically see outlier behaviors. But one of the things we're hearing in the beginning of this is him telling us this almost like he's reading a screenplay. And please keep in mind this guy probably reads screenplays for a living. He probably gets 50 of them shipped to his house every day. But he's saying everyone's horrified. They are shocked. It is loud. They don't have their earplugs. This is straight out of third person POV from fiction. This is straight third person POV out of a screenplay. So again, we're not hearing a name. We're not hearing the name of the actual victim here. And when he talks about her going down, there's just this simple jerk of the hand. It's really abrupt. There's not a whole lot of emotion right here. And I think a person like this might not be communicating the emotion because we're not at the emotional part of the screenplay. We're not at the emotional part of the story yet. And I'm not saying that that's a deceptive behavior. I'm saying this is how this person's psychology most likely works. I'm willing to bet that he is honest. And this is a truthful recollection for the most part that we're seeing here. That's all I got. So you have this Colt 45. You just pulled the hammer as far back as I could without cocking the actual. And you're holding on to the hammer. I'm holding on. I'm just showing. I go, how about that? Does that work? Do you see that? Do you see that? She goes, yeah, that's good. I let go of the hammer. Bang! The gun goes on. Everyone is horrified. They're shocked. It's loud. They don't have their earplugs in. The gun was supposed to be empty. I was told I was handed an empty gun. There were cosmetic rounds. Nothing with a charge at all. A flash round. Nothing. She goes down. I thought to myself, did she faint? All right. Good. Within 15 minutes or 20 minutes after that, the police arrived and took the church set and put the crime tape around it, the yellow tape, and forced us all to the perimeter of the parking area where we sat and waited. She was in the church, and she was not taken out of the church for quite a while. In the aftermath, there was chaos and confusion. But nobody told you what happened? No. No. It wasn't until I was in the police station. Hours later. I mean, it was like seeing aliens. It was utter disbelief over the idea. It was unacceptable, the idea that it was a live round. And finally, one of the police officers at the conclusion of my interview, I was there for like an hour and a half or so, she takes her phone and she slides it across to me. She says, that's what came out of Joel's shoulder. A 45 caliber slug. It was a real bullet. Had you known that Joel had been hit? No one had any idea until that police officer, that sheriff's officer said to me, this is the slug, 45 caliber slug they took out of Joel's arm. And then the kind of insanity inducing agony of thinking that someone put a live bullet in the gun. I'll go first on this one. Again, really large illustrator setting up the scene. And when he scratches his head, that's ventilation a lot of times. You see somebody who is wondering about stuff or they're getting heated up about something, they're getting worried. You'll see him do that. He's got some hair. So he does that. But at the same time, it could be him scratching his head on almost as an adapter or almost like he's not unsure of what's happening there or what he's saying. When he says, but nobody told you when the interviewer says, nobody told you what happened. No, that's really fast and really loud. And it wasn't tells at the police station hours later. They knew some that he knew anything like that happened. If I had heard somebody get shot again, and there's a woman laying on the floor and there's a guy laying back there screaming because he's been shot in the shoulder. You're going to know what happened. This is starting to sound like this. This is starting to sound deceptive because what he does, he moves himself away from so you didn't know the other guy got hit. He doesn't say no. No, I didn't. He keeps talking. I didn't, we didn't know this until the police officer did this. So, you know, hours later or whatever, however long ago it was later. This, this to me is these are bells and whistles right here. He's being really careful about what he's saying. This is not, it may be unscripted, but he had the answers of the questions given to him earlier because he's ready for that as he goes through. And this guy isn't coming out hard. There's nothing, no reason for him to come on, you know, tough with him because we know he didn't do it on purpose or it's, I would assume he didn't do it on purpose. That seems obvious. But, but that's, that's deceptive behavior right there. That's what puts him in that category of look out and then that thing. This, I'll stop there. I know I'm coming around the same thing every time, but man, this, this looks, this looks deceptive to me. All right, Chase, what do you got? There is a huge chunk of missing information here. We already know from his appearance when the media stopped him on the side of the road, he's comfortable saying what he's can't talk about and what he can. He is, we've already established his comfort level with telling the media that he can't talk about something, but there's still something missing. If you shoot a person and 15 minutes goes by before police force you out of a building, no one needs to tell you what happened. If you're in the room long enough for 911 to be called, you know what happened. If you shoot someone and they bleed, you know what happened. The narrative here seems to be that he just vanished from the building immediately after the gun went off and people on the scene who he was sequestered with would have seen the bullet holes, would have seen some kind of wound. So this is, we're at the point of criticizing story and not necessarily behavior here, but this is, this is all what we do. You know, we're interrogators. We talk to people for a living. This would be a gigantic missing black hole in the story where everything's falling apart. But obviously I think this was an accident. And once we get to our final thoughts, I think you're going to be surprised a little bit, but that's all I got. I'll leave it at that. Greg, what do you think? Yeah, pretty simply, there are a couple of things. If you shoot somebody tomorrow, there's going to be all kinds of things go through your head. You're going to hedge. And if you're in this situation where you happen to be a producer and you happen to be the actor who pulled the trigger and you're going to have some stone walls around things that you should and shouldn't talk about. So of course we're going to see deceptive body language. We're going to see him trying, remember deception doesn't mean lying. It can sometimes mean omitting information and you're dancing around the topic when somebody gets close to it. And I think we're seeing some of that. Scott, I think when he does this, it's more than a simple comforter. When people feel high stress, often you'll see them grip and rub the back of their head. And I think when he puts his hand up there, that's pretty damn pronounced. For all the rest of his body language, that's pretty damn pronounced. I think he realizes we're getting awfully close to some of those areas. I need to be careful. And that's what I think we're seeing is when he starts to repeat, it's because he's uncertain. We're not seeing a whole lot of that. He is going down, right? He's navigating whatever's going on. His eyes widen and it was a real bullet. That actually I think is real for him. I don't think his eyes intentionally did it. I think that's an autonomic response to what his brain is doing. If somebody scripted this message for him, he needs to hire somebody else because nobody says no one had any idea until. I think that's his brain trying to craft the sentence to say, we didn't know what really happened. But chase on with you. If you shoot somebody tomorrow with a 45 long cold at five to 10 feet away, you know what happened. You certainly know. Anything that's lethal, the cavitation from that round is going to make a hell of a mess out of a person. And you won't be able to forget it when that happens. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have all that in his head and all those visuals, but he's been told, shut up. Don't say a word. Don't know. I'm just saying if you were in that situation, if my friend were in that situation and said, hey, this happened, I'd say, don't talk at all about details about what you know. Just be quiet. And I'm sure his lawyers have already said it. He also says when he says no one had any idea until that's blame sharing. So he feels some responsibility, certainly, whether, you know, whether he should or not. That's a different equation. I think anybody who shoots somebody is going to feel that. And I think as we get to that blame sharing, we're starting to use team pronounces. You would call them chase. I always just call it blame sharing when it's me that pulled the trigger. I want other people involved. No one had any idea until I think he's working and navigating through here. And that's what you're seeing is deception. I think, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I agree. For somebody who is so good at using the descriptors and using the mime to tell us the story and tells a good verbal story, we've got the gap in the story now. We do get some really good geography of, look, the tape went around the church. So really good geography, really good mime of that. But where is the mime of, you know, and then, you know, Hutchins falls to the floor. I run over, I'm doing this. You know, somebody over there is grabbing there is grabbing there. There's nothing of that description. Yeah, I'm with everybody else. Why? Why are we not talking about that? Why? Why don't we get some good storytelling around that? And I think, yeah, everybody could be right there around. Well, that's the one thing you're not going to hear about because culpability or not acting quick enough or not taking control, not being a good leader in that situation may well come up. I just don't know. I'm speculating, of course, around that. What is most interesting for me is how he does transference of power into objects. And I think it might be a little bit of a redirect there, Greg, a little bit of chaff and redirect. And then he goes, he picks up this book and don't use an audience go, what's he picking up? What's he doing? What's he doing? He goes, well, this is an iPhone. All right, you've just made a book into an iPhone. And what it is is the representation of a bullet because she had the bullet on it and then he puts it down the table and he kind of puts it at cursory, slides it over. Cursory slides it over. I think what he's doing there, number one is a bit of a redirect of look at my storytelling, look at my mind because it is quite extraordinary. And then he's showing how the police blindside him and our cursory about it. So there's a bit of blame shift there or certainly a bit of, you know, look, negative people doing negative things over here. Don't look over here. Look over here. So extraordinary. And again, control elsewhere. All the control is, I knew nothing about this. I was blindsided by this book being an iPad being a bullet. You know, quite again, quite extraordinary and missing data there. That's what I got on that one. Nice. Sorry. Within 15 minutes or 20 minutes after that, the police arrived and took the church set and put the crime tape around at the yellow tape and forced us all to the perimeters of the parking area where we sat and waited. She was in the church and she was not taken out of the church for quite a while. In the aftermath, there was chaos and confusion. But nobody told you what happened? No, no. It wasn't until I was in the police station. Hours later, I mean, it was like seeing aliens. It was utter disbelief over the idea. It was unacceptable, the idea that it was a live round. And finally, one of the police officers at the conclusion of my interview, I was there for like an hour and a half or so, she takes her phone and she slides it across to me. She says, that's what came out of Joel's shoulder. A 45-caliber slug was a real bullet. Had you known that Joel had been hit? No one had any idea until that police officer, that sheriff's officer said to me, this is the slug, 45-caliber slug they took out of Joel's arm. And then the kind of insanity-inducing agony of thinking that someone put a live bullet in the gun. All right. Let's go to the next one. The notion that there was a live round in that gun did not dawn on me until probably 45 minutes to an hour later. 45 minutes to an hour? Well, she's laying there and I go, did she get it by wadding? Sometimes those blank grounds have a wadding inside that packs like a cloth, that packs the gunpowder in. Sometimes wadding comes out and can hit people and it can feel like a little bit of a poke. No one could understand. Did she have a heart attack? Because remember, the idea that someone put a live bullet in the gun was not even in reality. Did you go up to her? I went up to her and then we were immediately told to get out of the building. We were forced to get out of the building. The medics came in. I mean, I stood over her for 60 seconds and she just laid there kind of in shock. Was she conscious? My recollection is yes. All right. Greg, what do you got? So this is the only time we see him change dramatically from his baseline. He's got this passionate, over enunciated kind of New Yorker thing going on and suddenly he goes, ah, um, and stammers. He now is in trouble. This is a place where he's been told something. I guarantee you. I mean, there's rarely a time you hear me say, this is a fact. This I would almost guarantee is a fact. He has eye-accessing to his left pretty hard, which you would say three o'clock. I typically associate with something I'm recalling I've heard. And he goes, my recollection is yes. Well, there's distancing from the answer. His blink rate actually increases here and he does a short nervous nod. It's an odd out of everything that we see. It's out of baseline. And I think it's a danger zone for him. Somebody has told him to be very careful not to be passionate around this, not to talk about it. And then you also see a little disapproval or sadness as the sides of his mouth draw down. It's out of standard. So this is a place I think he's been coached and the coaching is actually showing. Scott, what do you got? Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I totally agree. We get a nose wrinkle from him, very slight on when he talks about 60 seconds. So again, I'm concerned about that 60 seconds. I'm like, how accurate is that? I'm concerned now. The story is getting fuzzy for me a little bit. It seems to be getting fuzzy for him. It's getting fuzzy for me. I'm not seeing the same mime happening. I'm not seeing the same emphatic use of detail. Just as you said there, Greg, conscious. My recollection, that's out of baseline. I totally agree. So however, look, is it that my expectation is when a gun goes off, when there's a loud bang and all hell breaks loose, you can forget things. We all know that when you're fuzzy on the detail, before you might remember, but after that gun goes off, maybe it gets a bit fuzzy. So we don't want to discount that, but for somebody who is so, so accurate and detailed, this is off baseline for me. Scott, what do you think of that one? All right. You're right about that nose part when during the 60 seconds something's up there because we get a full on, and I think you blinked Mark halfway through that because it isn't just a little wrinkle. It's a full on anger micro expression. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Because I was going through frame by frame and I'll show it to you. It is unbelievable when you see it. If you didn't catch before, you're going to go, oh my God, that's unbelievable. When he says no one can understand that you have a heart attack. None of this, none of this sounds like it went down the way it supposedly went down. We were forced, we were forced out of the building. He said he stood over for 60 seconds. Then they were forced out of the building. Well, keep in mind, he's the guy in charge. It's his movie. He's the star. He's a producer. With an ego like that, you think he's going to let somebody force us out of the building? No. He'd want to stay. And how long does he say it takes for the cops to get there and the ambulance to get there? 15, 20 minutes. So he wasn't sitting there for 60 seconds over. I bet he said something. Something went squirmy in there on him. Something happened in there because he's angry about whatever it was. So I think that's why there's something up there. It'll come out and hopefully in court. But that's my opinion. It doesn't mean it actually did. I could completely be wrong. But I think something happened in there and he's trying to push away from that. Because he looks braced and he's defensive during this as well. Another thing when he says, I stood there for 60 seconds. I'll go back to my thing where I won't go on. You guys covered a lot of that. I think there's something up in that 60 seconds there. I don't think that went down the way you said it went down. I think there's something goofy in there. I think we'll see that later on. Chase, what do you got? The bullets that were in this gun, if you're not familiar with a lot of guns, they're called the 45 Long Colt. It's a 45 caliber bullets about that long. It's about a big round as my pinky. And if you're standing over a person with a hole in them, this size, there is going to be blood. There's going to be pain. There's going to be probably a loss of consciousness to some degree, no matter where the bullet hole is. And especially if you do it for 60 seconds, maybe longer. And suddenly the only thing that he needs to qualify or what we call an exclusion statement when we hear politicians all the time say to the best of my knowledge, as I recall, to my recollection, those kind of exclusion statements is her level of consciousness. It's the only time we hear an exclusion used throughout this entire thing is due to her level of consciousness here after the incident happened, which I think is a big red flag. And this is after he's saying they were immediately forced out of the building. And this comment about her being conscious, I think is a huge baseline deviation for Baldwin to begin with. His eyes are recalling standing over her at 9 o'clock to our 9 o'clock a couple of times. And was she conscious? We hear the interview you're asking. And he says only, and we hear this long, the only time that he uses these kind of filler words there and the only qualifier, there's no eye movement during the recall for the question. There is a complete body freeze during the initial processing as he starts to answer. And there is a nod for agreement as he's saying to my recollection. He is getting it, trying to get a nod from the interviewer. And I would say this is probably an accident. This is likely deceptive or it's likely concealing based on something he's heard from legal counsel. It's all I got. Yeah, guys, a couple of things to think about. Remember the first time you ever fired a firearm without your plugs? Do you remember that? Oh, yeah. Holy, Jeff, you're back on here, especially this gun. That's a lot of powder coming out, all the stuff that's going to go, the impact of this person, the sounds, the smells, all that stuff that if you've never been around firearms and if you've never been around someone's shot, all that stuff together, it creates this whirl of things going on around you that I can understand how you can't remember facts and anybody told me 60 seconds I'd go, yeah, probably isn't that, even if they're being truthful with me because your brain goes into a different gear when that kind of stuff happens. Just that sound alone is enough. But then you're right. This person's going to be screaming. That person's going to be screaming. You may not hear it. They may be in and out of, there's all kinds of stuff going on that we're not seeing. Somebody in that group, somebody would have said, somebody out of all the people in that room would have said, oh my God, she's been shot. Or do you think she could have been shot? You shot her. Did you shoot her? Yeah, yeah. Or when you step outside, when somebody gets shot and the idea doesn't pop into his head, you say, come on, man. Well, when they call 911, when they call 911, they said someone has been shot. Yeah. Was it a real bullet? It was a, you know, you can listen to 911 call, you can play it over here, Scott, because they mention it. I think we're all on the same page. Anything he's hiding here, I think he's hiding out of protection. Not in his, you know, he's hedging because of that. First time I ever shot a gun and I didn't have ear plugs in, I didn't hear anything. All I heard was this, it was a whistle. It scared me to death. You know, I was like, You ever shot a gun in a car? You ever shot a gun in a car? No. Holy no. The first time you do that, it doesn't matter if you have hearing protection. Well, after I did it, my brother's like, you know, I was like, what? You know what I mean? The notion that there was a live round in that gun did not dawn on me until probably 45 minutes to an hour later. 45 minutes to an hour? Well, she's laying there and I go, did she hit it by wadding? Was there a blank, sometimes those blank rounds have a wadding inside that packs, it's like a cloth that packs the gunpowder in. Sometimes wadding comes out and can hit people and it can feel like a little bit of a poke. But no one could understand, did she have a heart attack? Because remember, the idea that someone put a live bullet in the gun was not even in reality. Did you go up to her? I went up to her and then we were immediately told to get out of the building. We were forced to get out of the building. The medics came in. I mean, I stood over her for 60 seconds as she just laid there kind of in shock. Was she conscious? My recollection is yes. We've all seen that picture of you off the set in that hour or so after the gun went off. What were you doing? What was going through your mind? At the end of, she was laying there and she was there for a while. I was amazed at how long they didn't get her in a car and get her out, but they waited and a helicopter came. And by the time the helicopter took off with her and literally lifted off, we were all glued to that process outside. When she finally left, I don't know how long it was she was there. 30 minutes, 40 minutes seemed like a very long time. But they kept saying, well, she's stable. Like nobody, just as you disbelieved that there was a live round in the gun, you disbelieved that this was going to be a fatal accident. So you didn't know exactly how serious it was. At the very end of my interview with the sheriff's department, they said to me, we regret to tell you that she didn't make it. She died. They told me right then and there. And that's when I went in the parking lot and called my wife to talk to my wife. Okay, Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So the question there is what was going through your mind? Pretty quick question. What was going through your mind? And Chatham Redirect, I think, Blameshift as well. It's amazing how long they didn't get her into a car. Seemed like a very long time. So who are they? Like, can we know who they are? Who they are? Where were you when they were doing this thing that you seemed to have no control over? So I'm confused about that and you're not answering the question. And when you do get to an idea of something that goes through somebody's mind, it's you disbelieve. Not, I was in disbelief. You disbelieve. Not, I felt disbelief. So he doesn't, at any point, take ownership of any feeling or emotion or state of mind or mindset and doesn't answer the question. What was going through your mind? And that is interesting. I think that he wants to avoid that. Chase, what do you think on that one? Right as the question is asked at the beginning, there is lip retraction. And when somebody pulls their lips into their mouth, once it passes the barrier of the teeth, just kind of goes into the teeth, most of the time that suggests that there is a need for reassurance. And we see that as the question is being asked. And then he says that we're glued to this process, this thing that's happening, which I think is an unusual way of saying we were terrified, worried, scared, and anguished or agony or panic. And then, Mark, just like you said, completely agree, shifts all the pronouns to you for a short period to, I think, a, subconsciously say this to get other people to agree with us. But I think, B, we're doing this to get this agreement away from myself. Everybody else agrees to this. Everybody can get on board with this idea. I think it's important here that we note there's not a lot of emotion. There's no behavior of emotion on the face. This is proven science. And you can take a look at that. But there's no discussion. Greg. Sorry, dude. I was looking at it while you were doing that. I'm just listening. It depends on what you ask Greg about. That's true. That's true. Sorry. If I'm asking Greg about a time he accidentally hurt somebody really bad, you're going to see emotion. Even if it was 15 years ago. Yep. Unless he did it on purpose, which he was paid to do. But wrapping this up, there's no discussion of feeling or how he reacted or how he felt about any of these events, which I think is stunning to me, especially being such a good storyteller, a wonderful actor, knowing what a good story structure looks like, reading all of these screenplays all the time through his life. This is how you snag somebody's focus and attention. This is how you capture their emotion. This is how you lead it down a certain path. I'm surprised it wasn't here. I think that there may have been an attorney, some kind of attorney or legal counsel saying, we will not speak about any of these things. Don't talk about feeling bad or don't talk about feeling guilty. You look on the back of your insurance card. It says that. Don't admit any fault if you get into any accident at any time. Let us handle that stuff. He heard probably an advanced version of the back of your insurance card. Scott, what do you think? Again, this whole thing looks squirrelly to me. He's watching what he says. He wants to come out and say something. Obviously, from a societal point of view, he sort of has to do something. So, this is perfect for that. We all expect it. I think coming into that, when we're seeing that lip compression, I think that might have been from something else. It's already going when he shows up. So, maybe he was asking something at that point. I looked at that, too. I thought, what's going on there? That bugged me a little bit. I think that might be what was going on. Something beforehand. But still, it coincides with what's being asked. So, shooting everybody with something like that, he was asking. Anyway, in this one, this is one of the only times we see an adapter when he squeezes his knee. He's sitting in his chair like this. All straight, very still. I don't know. All of you guys have covered this. I'm not going to go back over to making it boring. This doesn't sound the way it should to me. That's why I'm not focusing on all the body language right now. I'm going back into interrogator mode because I'd be asking so many questions at this point. Greg, what do you think? Well, first of all, the guy is the producer for the show. He has a legal obligation. All the insurance, all of that stuff and producers. Not the director. The director's about the artistic piece. The producer's the business piece. So, if you bring in a guy and you start asking him questions about what he felt, and let's assume for many he has feelings that 911 was too slow. That she died because the helicopter took forever. And he talks about that. Or that somebody else caused a problem and and and. He can't say that. I mean, the guy is held up to a standard that anybody else on the set can say something. It's kind of like if you're corporate America and you're in the leadership team. Other people can say, yeah, well, we cause that. You can't. And you get in positions where you have to hold back information. I think that's the lip compression. I think when he first starts the lip compression and then when he's feeling a struggle, I think Chase, that's when you see him retract his lips because he's looking for approval that, hey, I'm not going to be able to tell you this. His head drops down into the right and he starts to adapt. What he's looking him to do is to, you know, air dirt and laundry to shine a bright light on his own ugly baby. And he really can't do that today because he's held in a position of of an insurance. He's a guarantor for that insurance. All that kind of stuff that he's tied to that the rest of the cast may or may not be. I also see his right hand illustrating as he's downright. I access and he's talking. I see a slight sneer, a slight sneer contempt at how long it took that helicopter to get out of there. That's why I think he's hiding a whole lot of something. We won't be able to tell that. But he does a deep draw in of a breath and he pulls his lips in a deep swallow and moves his eyes downright. I think what we're seeing here is containment and him not being able to say things that he's been coached to stay away from and feeling contempt for somebody. Now, who it is, don't know. Don't know all the details. I can just see containment. That's it. We've all seen that picture of you off the set in that hour or so after the gun went off. What were you doing? What was going through your mind? At the end of... she was laying there and she was there for a while. I was amazed at how long they didn't get her in a car and get her out, but they waited and the helicopter came. And by the time the helicopter took off with her and literally lifted off, we were all glued to that process when she finally left. I don't know how long it was. She was there 30 minutes, 40 minutes. It seemed like a very long time. But they kept saying, well, she's stable. Like nobody... just as you disbelieved that there was a live round in the gun, you disbelieved that this was going to be a fatal accident. So you didn't know exactly how serious it was? At the very end of my interview with the sheriff's department, they said to me, we regret to tell you that she didn't make it. She died. They told me right then and there. And that's when I went in the parking lot and called my wife and talked to my wife. All right. Let's throw her in the room and everybody give 30 seconds or less, or a minute or less, on what we think was going on and our thoughts on this group of videos. Mark, we'll start with you, go to Chase and then Greg, and I'll wrap it up. Yeah. So I think just as you were saying there, Greg, there's liabilities there. There's culpabilities there as well. So I think some information... Look, I think it comes across to me that it's well acted out that there was a real accident that happened here. I think after that moment, the story becomes very, very fuzzy. I think it could be that fuzzy story is about culpability and liability and certain details being held back about that. One other option is that does he feel he handled himself and his team in a way that would be respected by other people? It's interesting for me that he is, for want of a better word, triggered at the start of this interview by the word admired. She was admired. Did he act in an admirable way during this? I think that might be an issue. Complete conjecture, though, based on all this information that has come together and the ideas that I have in my own little head. Chase, what do you think? I think we're seeing a person who is mostly honest and deliberately concealing and I think the deception that we're seeing here is not admitting to concealing that information deliberately. That might have been kind of a Rumsfeld known unknowns, but I think there's some hidden information that's deliberate expecting for him to say, just like we've seen in past videos, I can't talk about that. I don't want to talk about that right now or I don't want to answer X, Y, Z question. And I think saying things like that will be hard to do on a show that's literally titled unscripted. It probably just be difficult. I think it was an accident. I think he feels bad about it. I think talking about how bad he feels would hurt him in court or potential to hurt him in court. Right? Yeah, the first thing I would say is this is a person who has taken the life of someone accidentally. None of us think he put a round in the chamber and went and shot this lady. So just for a second, if you've ever hit a dog or a deer or any animal on the highway, think about how emotionally messed up you were for a short period of time. Most of us that are balanced. I'm trying to figure out what that meant and I took something's life. Now compound that by a million times when it's a human being and someone you know, not someone who's trying to kill you, someone you know. So there's going to be all kinds of stuff going on this guy's head and it will go on for a long time. If you think that grief is compound, imagine grief at something that you caused. So this creates a whole new, he's going to have tons of guilt messaging and emblems and that kind of thing just because that's the number one. Number two, he is a public person who has to do something. He feels like he has to do something. That'll probably come back to haunt him when he goes to civil or whatever kind of court case this turns into. But he feels like he has to do something. He has to get a message out. Guarantee you that there are things that he's not allowed to talk about by contractual obligation and then there's some that his attorney has said, don't talk about. So we're seeing and some of that may simply be feelings of guilt and inadequacy and and and and. But I see mostly an honest guy who's telling you what he remembers. He brought certain things scripted and he's hiding certain things to prevent telling you something that will cause harm to his contractual obligation in the future or to his family and and and. Scott, what do you got? I think this whole thing was to build as well of it's not my fault. It's not my fault wall. I think everything in this says that for everything we didn't show in here. All he's doing is building these bricks of it's not my fault from the even though the one that he shot, he says she told me to point it at her. She told me to do this. All those things he's building this little wall of it's not my fault. And I think you're right, Greg. I never thought about that helicopter situation before. He's calling on everybody. So I think that's that's what this is and I think it was it was a goal and I wouldn't be surprised if they're the ones that said, hey, here's what we want to do. We want to come out and his public sister or whoever it was and said, let's do this. I don't think Stephanopoulos came to him said, can we do an interview? I think he showed up with it if with the offer. I would think because that's all this is is that his I didn't do it or I. It was an accident wall. It's not my fault wall. In other words, my favorite is the, what are you doing up staging me move by Alec Baldwin more than one time. Excuse me. We were a very, very excuse me. I believe the excuse me is don't upstage me. This is an actor and somebody walking in front of him on the camera. Very excuse me. But there are a couple of things that I think you can see are going on here. My assumption based on what I see is that yes, they've been followed by these reporters and yes, they're getting frustrated and I'll bet there's a bunch of going on in the car right now over that very thing. Look what we've gotten into and they're bickering and going back and forth because you can sense some stress between the two of them as they get out. They literally take their mark at the start of the mark is the little cross on the on the ground where you stand because you know you're going to be in the right place for the camera. And so yes, I think some of it is is his push away of of is it is it hilarious? Her birth name isn't even a laria. It's all American Hillary. Anyway, I think part of the push away is is number one, you know, don't crowd my lines and don't crowd my space. I've got this handle. I think Alec turns to face Hilaria. It's all American Hillary. Alec turns to face her with shoulders and feet pointed at her, which I think indicates a little aggression, territory and intent and I think there's a possibility that it might not be don't steal the spotlight, but don't embarrass me because he has a clear narrative that he's trying to do and she's clearly doing the opposite of what he's trying to do and be friendly and show some candor. We're seeing everything that shows he's he's in a panic and he's worried. It's almost like somebody's jumped out of the car and said, all right, man, listen, like he's going to fight him. He's going to fight somebody because he's in panic mode. His respiration is up. He's talking really loud. He's looking back and forth. His eyes are wide and they're all baggy. You can tell you and slap a whole lot. He's tired, I'm sure. There's got his wife out there running around with a camera. He's telling her, excuse me. Excuse me. Once she gets close to him, wow. Excuse me. And when he starts talking about the an act, he can't talk about an active investigation. I think he's he's he's didn't want to talk about how much trouble he's in. I'm not allowed to make any comments. So what do you got?