 I think you two should swap numbers because you two would get on like an house on fire. She's like you, she wants everybody to be a vegan. Do you want to have a discussion with me? Yeah, but we should be vegan. Ah, really? Yeah, then it's... Oh. Why aren't you a vegan? Are you mum? I'm not a vegan. Are you mum? Because I like meat. Are you mum? Is this your daughter? Ah, cool. Are you meat? You eat meat, yeah. I like meat. Yeah, why? Because it's tasty. Yeah. You know what happens to the animals there? Your daughter's probably told you. I've seen what the door means. He's watched Dominion. Yeah, so I've watched Dominion. Do you think taste justifies what happens in Dominion? We could kill him differently, yeah. Okay, what is there of you? This is what the sign is actually about. Yeah. Is there a humane way to kill you and eat you? Right now. Well, a camembert could eat me cool. Yeah, but is there a humane way to kill you? Well, well, yeah, give me an injection. Yeah, but you want to live though. You want to live. All says I do. You don't want to live. Well, if it was a mercy killing, okay, well, presuming you do, assuming you do, because if it was a mercy killing, it would be humane. If you were suffering to the point where you couldn't be helped, then it would be humane. I'm saying that if you're right now experiencing well-being, walking around, how do I kill you humanely? If you want to live. Because it would be murder, wouldn't it? And the try and shove it down your throat. When I feel that people should do what they want to do. You really believe that? Yeah, yeah, and I believe if you want to eat an animal, then eat it. But wait a second. Do you think we should be able to do whatever we want to do? Well, why should I not want to eat? Because they get abused and killed for it. We've always done it. Yeah, but we've always done horrific things to each other throughout history. But we've always done it. So what's holding you back? Is it just the taste? I'm trying to get, like, because obviously you're against animal cruelty, but you pay for it. So it's wrong that it happens. But you pay for it with your other hand. That's what you're saying. Yeah, we do have some vegan meals. Have you had bad vegan food that's turned you off? Silly. You can have what you like, though, when you're a vegan. You can find things that you like. Yeah. Well, tell me about it. I'm a vegan. Shall I eat, shall I eat? Why do you want to go off and buy and eat something what represents me? Why do you want to go and eat sausages? I can explain that to you. Why do you want to go and eat burgers? I can explain that to you, because we're against animal cruelty. So what's the problem? If there's no animal cruelty in it, then we can replicate the same foods that we're used to. And there's nothing morally wrong with that. I like the taste of burgers, too, but I don't like animal cruelty enough to change the burger to a plant-based burger. Oh, everybody in the world is going to be a vegan. By 2050. Okay, no. Well, that's a different... I'm talking about you right now. You're against animal cruelty. Yeah, but I like meat. Would you consider yourself a hypocrite? So it's a serious... You're against animal cruelty, but you pay for it. Yeah, because I enjoy meat. Yeah, but I know. But I wouldn't personally go out and murder... And that's even worse. That is even worse. I wouldn't go out and personally milk a cow because I want some milk. How about this? I'm against dog cruelty, but I'm against cruelty to dogs, but I pay for them to be tortured and killed so I can eat them. Does that sound... I've got a dog. I've got a dog. No, I'm saying... I'm saying... No, I'm just saying, do you understand the analogy? Yeah. Am I a hypocrite if I do that? But if I protest what happens to dogs, but I go and pay for the... I'm asking if you're a hypocrite, and you said no. And I said, would I be a hypocrite? I am if I'm... Beagans, namingly this one, tries to make everybody feel guilty. Shouldn't feel guilty. If they're in... Wait a second. Well, you should. Why shouldn't you? I don't want to cause an argument between you two. I'm really... I want to find out. I want to find out. So do you think someone should feel guilty for torturing a dog? Okay, they shouldn't. No, no, no, no, no. No, that's not the question. The question is, should you feel guilty for torturing a dog? Because they are. I can show you. You've seen Dominion. Okay. Okay. So they're torturing animals. Do you know 90% of the pigs in the UK are factory farmed and over 90% of the chickens are factory farmed? Yeah. Okay, so they're torturing those animals. Yeah, and they torture animals in a slaughterhouse too. But she's not creating a demand for slaughterhouses. She's creating a demand for vegan food. You're creating the demand for slaughterhouses. Yeah, your money goes to slaughtering animals. That's how it's applied, but you know how economics work, yeah? The thing is, she's so one-sided by you, no one's not itself. Can I have a discussion with that? I want to see if we can get some of you. In your face. If I want to buy, if I want, hey, if I sell peaches, right, there's a demand for peaches, I'm going to get more peaches to meet that demand, aren't I? Yeah. Okay. What if no one buys peaches anymore? What am I going to do with my peaches? I'm going to stop growing them, aren't I? Okay. So I've got dogs in the boot here, and I'm going to cut them up, and there's a demand for dog flesh. We don't eat dog. I don't care. I do. They're both animals. I'm trying to get you to understand why it's wrong. Stay, it's wrong. It's for... You think it's wrong? You think it's wrong? Me, no. You just told me it was wrong. No, not for me. Yeah, before when I first started, yeah, I said, do you think animal cruelty is wrong? Yeah, it's cruelty. What they do, they should find a better way to kill animals. And I asked you, is there a better way to kill you? And you said no. It's murder. No. Well, no. So it's murder for you, but it's not murder for the animal. You are an animal, that's not murder. But that's what they're there for. What if I said, oh, that's what... Women are here for men. They are, no. Women are here for men. Thank you. What about that? No. Does that sound good? No. Like people here for white people? No. Children are here for pedophiles? No. No. No, don't get me. Animals are here... Okay. Don't get me. No, no, no, no. It's the same, it's the same. Animals are not here for you. Right. So we didn't kill all these animals. We'd have millions and millions of them all of it. Millions of what? So I don't understand. We'd have millions of animals. If we don't kill them, well, we would. How would we kill them if it's called natural selection? Can I ask you something? How do you think there are... Why do you think there are billions of animals on Earth in this food system right now? How do they get here? You think that it's naturally exist and we kill them? You have to breed them. You just take one if you can. Yeah, yeah. So when we stop breeding them, so when you stop buying them, they'll stop breeding them and then they'll... You're never, ever gonna change people. I'm trying to change you. No, but why? She can't change it. Because you're against animal cruelty. I have it every day. I have it every day with her. Every meal I have. I have it with her. So... She cares about you and she knows that you're against animal cruelty. She cares about the animals. No, because she cares about me. It's because she wants... She's like you. She wants everybody to be a vegan. So the animals don't get tortured and killed. There's a reason behind it. It's not just her ego talking. Well, I know it's not her. But she used to absolutely love me. She used to eat me. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. But you... Who's the first one to give her meat? My mum raised me to eat meat too. My mum's a vegan now though. Took her a couple of years, but she's come around. But she is the first one to give me meat. And she goes, Joey, you know, now that I know what I know, I'm so sorry. Because I didn't know. She wasn't exposed to it. You weren't exposed to it. Your parents probably did it. You know, it's not to make you feel guilty about it. Because that's the way we've ever known. But now you know what... Now you know what goes on to animals. So you're conscious of it now? Yes. Yes, I'm conscious of it. But I put my hands up. I enjoy meat. So do I. So did I. But you know, I want to... I can't. You can't say... Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean you should do it. Have a piece of steak. But it's not me. You pick Heather. Heather. Just because you get pleasure out of an action, if that pleasure causes another being, cruelty, trauma, violence, do you think that pleasure justifies that cruelty, trauma or violence? No. Okay. No. You're using it taste good as an excuse. You enjoy the taste. Maybe so. But it's still... It's still not going to make me be a vegan. So what would? Nothing. No, nothing. I'm not saying... No amount of animal suffering. I'm not saying... I'm not saying down the line to stop eating meat. But I enjoy fish. I don't like awful milk. See, it's awful. It's like water. Which one are you talking about, Sawyer? She herself brought you. Almonds. Almonds? It's awful. Yeah, I prefer oat milk. She has all of them. It's awful. I don't like it. You prefer to drink breast milk from a cow? Exactly. Are you a baby cow? Don't even stop. You're still breastfeeding. Oh my God. You two... I think you two should swap numbers because you two would get on like an house on fire. But like... I mean, you seem like a nice person. I mean, I don't think you're evil. I am a nice person. But it seems like you're trying to avoid responsibility for what you're paying for here. But you're saying you're against animal cruelty. You pay for it to happen. Yeah, I'm against animal cruelty. Like I said, I won't personally leave you. You said, go out now and you've got to kill that cow. Then I couldn't... You can't kill the pig yourself. I wouldn't do it, no. Have you ever looked a pig in the eyes? Not really, no. Have you ever hung out with a pig? No, have you. You should take it to a sanctuary. Have you? Have you? Yeah, have you. It takes a time. I think you three times more intelligent than dogs. Well, I'm not saying the not. I'm not saying that they are and I'm not saying the not. But I don't want to be friends with a pig. But why wouldn't you eat a dog? I want to know why you wouldn't eat a dog. That's what I want to know. Why wouldn't I eat a dog? Well, I'm not saying I've never ate a dog because I eat Chinese food. So I could eat Chinese takeaway. But knowingly. So how do you know why I ate a dog or a cat? Let's just say, let me ask you this. Let's just say I have a farm full of dogs that we're farming in exactly the same way that you get your bacon, exactly the same way. Same slaughterhouse, everything. Would you eat that dog bacon? Factory farm dog bacon? I don't know because I've never tried it. But would you have a moral problem with it? Pig suffering, a dog suffering in a factory farm? If it were on the packet and it said mid-buy dog, then no, obviously I wouldn't pick it up. Okay, why? And buy it. Why? Because I've got a dog. I don't care. I don't care about that. Dogs are meant to be eaten. I couldn't eat. No, they're not. Dogs are here for us to eat. No, a dog. Yeah, they are. Yeah, they are. Animals are here for us, you said. No, a dog. Literally. Not a dog. Okay, so where do you draw the line then between? Dogs are pets. So pigs can be pets. You don't have cows as a pet. Pigs can be pets. Yeah, you can. Have you ever been to a sanctuary? I haven't in my purpose. Have you ever been to a sanctuary? Animals living free and happy? No, yeah, but that's... They're being rescued from factory farms from people who pay for it, people like Heather. And good person as well in your life. It's just right here. You're doing something that is against your nature. Good person. This is bad. What you're doing, not you. I'm saying what you're doing is bad. Well, like I said... And they put the nice green pastures, and you've seen them in here. We expose these places all the time. What does that mean? What does that mean? Free range means they aren't being in a cage. Oh, but they're still being in a cage. They're in a shed. They're running around freely. No, they keep them in a shed. Free range. Yeah, but then by time they'll really know. What about a free range dog? That's cool, eh? Free range dog. Cut them up. They keep going on about dogs. Because you've got a moral problem with dogs. Well, why you keep going on about dogs? Because if you won't eat a dog, why would you eat a pig? They're more intelligent than a dog. They suffer the same. Like, this is a big double standard that you have, and that's why I'm trying to get you to make connect the dots. You know, this is a way of you realising that, hey, I'll care about dogs, and your dog's probably going to personality. You don't want to boot your dog, or hurt the dog, or cut the dog's head off and eat the dog. I don't want to do that to me dog. Yeah, but you pay for it to happen to pigs, and cows, and chickens, and fish, every single day. They don't do that. Not everybody. Not every slaughterhouse. But most of them do. Most of those things like that, and not every person what works in a slaughterhouse. Okay, well then get your dog, and take it to your favourite slaughterhouse in the world. Take it to the one your husband works out. Take your dog there, and then chop them up and eat them. Or someone else's dog, even. Not even yours. We're all saying that they're kicking them, and they're doing this and that, and they don't... Not all the time. Not all the time, but they always slaughter them. Look at that, that's the job, isn't it? Yeah, what I'm saying is... That's the job. Saying you don't have to pay for it. This is your job here, trying to get everybody to become vegan, right? To help the animals, yeah. My husband, but my husband has to work there for... One second. You're paying for... For all to live, to pay our bills, to pay our rent. So your money... Other meat eaters' money are causing these slaughterhouses to exist, okay? Now, if everyone put their money into different products, you'd have a job somewhere else. Yeah. So you're funding these places? Not necessarily. Not necessarily. It's a cost of planning them out. No, but not necessarily. If no one bought meat, why would they need a slaughterhouse? It's not gonna happen, is it? That's a different... That's an appeal to futility. That's a different story. I'm asking why you still... It's not gonna happen, though. We won't buy... Right, I'm gonna tell you now, I'll say this to you what I say to her. Buy me becoming a vegan. That won't stop. That meat chain. Just because I have chose not to eat meat anymore. I don't know how to answer that. Because I stop murdering human beings, that won't stop humans being murdered. So maybe I'll just continue murdering human beings. That's exactly the same logic you just used. I don't care what everyone else does in the world. We won't stop killing and raping each other across the world, either. But you don't do it. That's the point. It's about you, your accountability. You're responsible for the animals that are being butchered for you. Not what everyone else who's Joe Blow around the corner down the street. I'm talking about Heather right here right now. You're paying for something you're morally against. And that makes you a hypocrite. You can't avoid being a hypocrite. You're a hypocrite. I called myself... I was one for age. I'm a hypocrite. Then that's what you want. But I am not going to be a vegan. I'm not saying we don't eat meat. The famous last words of someone... You're gonna look back at this and you're gonna go... I remember when I said I would never be a vegan. Oh God, that Joey got me. Well, I might be 97 when that happened. One second. Here, let me give you this and you probably... You probably won't read it. You might. You might. I'll see you will. You just... There's a bunch of cool stuff on there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know all this anyway. You're gonna take away. You know it all. I do know all this. You can take it and give it to someone. But Heather, I really like talking to you. You take care. Take care. I hope that maybe one day you stop being a hypocrite and start being nice to animals. And then maybe I might go and have a dog burger. Yeah, don't go. Please don't. Okay, so that was kind of away from the table here. But... Excuse me. Hello. Hi, nice to meet you. Ellie, nice to meet you, Ellie. I need to go get the bus, but I just don't know who you are. Oh, cool. Nice to see you. Nice to see you. Are you a vegan? Yeah. You're a vegan. Now, that's good. Are you going to school or are you going to work? Yeah, not your damn. Oh, cool. Awesome. Nice to see you. Nice to meet you. At you, too. Thank you. Nice to meet you, Ellie. It was really nice to meet you as well. You've got the amazing work. Okay. Thank you. Take care. See you later. They've already had that same argument so many times, that it would be better for a fresh perspective there, like, because there's something about your family. Like, your mum is less likely to listen to the daughter. You know, she's taught the daughter, you know? But if it's someone else, like, an outside person, like, I've got her to admit she's a hypocrite. And I bet you... Maybe her daughter hasn't even got her to admit that she's a hypocrite. I mean, it didn't seem like. But come and have a discussion, mate. Nah, you busy? Ah, that's simply for a sandwich. I don't know how to shop, please. Ah, yes, the guy shopping for a sandwich. I hope it's a vegan sandwich. Should have gave him a pamphlet. Hey, brother, are you going? Do you want to sit down and chat about it? I'm fine, brother. Okay. I believe the other way. You believe me? You with me? You want to come and have a seat? Discussion? Just want to say that we always... Oh, really? I saw you actually in London a couple of years ago at the London Vegan March. Oh, awesome. What's your name? Will. Will. Good to meet you, Will. How you doing? I'm not too... We had a discussion before with the man, and it was great. And, yeah, we're just looking for more. Trying to get as much activism done as possible. Anyway, nice one. I shall... Nice to see you, Will. Take care. Good luck, and I look forward to seeing this on YouTube. Definitely, mate. Ta, take care. I eat what's being put on my plate. That's respect, you know what I mean? So, if my mum's putting meat on my plate, I'm obviously going to eat it. Out of respect for your mum? Out of respect for anyone. Like, if someone put meat on my plate, I'm going to eat it.