 Neil Bates is a six-time winner of the Quint Forrest Rally, you're very well credentialed to comment and give us some insights to this event and what it actually takes to win here? Look it takes a lot. I came over here for the very first time as a cocky young bloke in 1990 and I think I went off the road about three times all up in the event and you know it's very different to the rest of Australia, you know the ball bearing gravel is incredibly slippery and they're very technical roads so you know in the early days it wasn't pace noted which made it even harder but it's slippery, it's very technical, it's hard to pull up particularly when you're going downhill and you know we saw by the carnage yesterday there's a lot of people making mistakes and that's just the nature of the roads over here for people learning it. Tell us what that means, our series is a matter of outright with some really fast front wheel drive cars, got four wheel drive cars, your classic CELICA here is rear wheel drive. Tell us the challenges of each of those categories in your opinion on what each person has to try and deal with there? Well if you're in two wheel drive, front wheel drive, obviously uphill traction is a real problem because the weight is leaning back taking it off the front wheels. In a rear wheel drive car, two wheel drive car it's difficult to stay on the line because the front wheel drive cars drive with the front wheel so they got their line on the road and I'm hanging outside that all the time so you struggle for grip and the four wheel drive cars while they have incredibly good traction as you well know, they rock it out of corners but they're also very heavy so to pull them up going downhill is hard work so each of the different types of cars have got their strengths and weaknesses and they all take a different driving style. The road almost evolves as we do a second pass, a lot of the stages we repeat and as you say the line sometimes changes from the first time and if you're at the pointy end of the field it's very loose, it changes the feel to it the next time around doesn't it? Yeah it does. When we repeated Qwala and Ferndale yesterday we were going over a second and kilometer faster and that's a very very big difference and thanks to the Western Australian State guys as well they had made the road wider and more swept and like I was car 10 but there was one very single line when we came back around for the second run there was a nice wide line and you could use all the road. Now you touched on Ferndale there and Carnage as well, that particular stage seems to be infamous in our series for drivers that catches out whether you're very experienced or whether you're a newbie to the sport what is it about that stage yesterday that catches so many people year after year? Look it's got a lot of different speeds like it's got some incredibly fast sections and then it turns off into some incredibly tight sections it's got a lot of steep downhill a lot of steep uphill so you know people when they're going uphill get really confident then it starts heading downhill and all of a sudden they brake too late and you know and it takes some adjustment to go from really fast stuff back into the tight stuff so because it's got such an enormous amount of variation in the road terrain it makes it harder for people to to manage well definitely caught plenty out mate you still got three stages to go you have an absolute ball in your machine thanks for the insight there mate and we'll look forward to catch up at the finish thanks that I thought it was only two but I better go now look read read read I'll get the glasses there mate