 Dim ond, mae gennymod allan plod i ddechrau sy'n gwneud cynutol. Felly, dim ond mwy oerdd o'i gweithio cyffers ac oedd byddiol. Oedd yna, yn mynd i gweithio illog ac oedd yn mynd i'r gweithio i gweithio eignig. A gallwn joinwyd iddo i gweithio'r Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Cymru. Fyd yn rhan o rai gweithio yoelwyr i gweithio ar ymlawr neu ddechrau. Rhaid i'n ddylch i fod yn dwylo chi'n gweithio'r labdog. Gweithiwch am unrhyw, mae y ddefnyddio'n ddiacrolu fel gwir y cwmwylliant gen i gwirledig ond gweithio'n oedd yn ddim yn arno gweithio ar gyfermysg ymwneud nhw'n gweithio'r cyfrifon. Mynd i wnaeth gweithio'r holl bwysig ymwneud yn unrhyw gwerthodd? tyind niiance. Rwy'n gyfer ei bod gennych hynny mae'r gweithio cydydd y waith i'w meddwl. Felly, sut rydw i'w mor ffnodaeth at y ddych chi, rydw i gyd. Rydw i'n credu i'r lleid. Rydw i'n credu i'n credu'r lleid y mynd i'n cael ei gwaith? Ond rydw i'r lleid y mynd i'n credu'r lleid. Rydw i'n creud. Rydw i'n credu'r lleid y mynd i'n creu ystafell a bwyntio amddiffin. Ie dŵr – we receive no apologies for absence. Does any Member of Cabinet have any declaration of interest pertaining to items on the agenda? No. So no declarations of interest. If anything crops up then you can let us know within the body of the meeting. So starting off with item 4, which is the minutes of the previous meeting, which I have asked. These are the meeting held on Monday, 12 December 2022, and I move the approval of those minutes as a correct record. I think Councillor Brian Mills is seconding. I'll second that. Thank you. Thank you very much. Are there any comments on the minutes please? No. So do Members agree to approve the minutes? Anyone wish to vote against? Anyone wish to abstain? Councillor Hawkins, you weren't present with you because you were on leave, so thank you for noting that. Cabinet therefore agrees the approval of the minutes as a correct record by affirmation. Moving on to public questions, we've received one request from a member of the public to make a statement which was refused as it didn't accord with the public speaking scheme, but I don't see any member of the public in attendance anyway, so we will move on from that item to number six, which is issues arising from scrutiny and overview. Councillor Stobart, we've agreed that we'll take the items within the body of the agenda. Are you happy with that? Yeah, that's understood, Leader, thank you. That's lovely, and thank you very much for attending today to present the significant amount of work that the scrutiny and overview committee have been doing over the last month. They've covered a lot of very important stuff, very thoroughly. So, moving on to the first significant item, and that's the Greater Cambridge Local Plan, the Development Strategy Update, and I'm going to ask Councillor Toomey Hawkins to introduce this, and I believe it's going, I think I'm going to second it, but Councillor Hawkins, if you would like to introduce it please. Thank you, Leader, good morning everyone. Firstly, I just want to say thank you to everyone who has been involved in getting us to this stage. It's a lot of work that has gone into this, and I'm now here just introducing what has been a very intensive work over the last few months. Of course, the work on the Local Plan continues in alignment with the timetable that we have in the Local Development Scheme of 2022, which followed the first proposals consultation that we had back in the end of 2021. And the report before us this morning sets out an update on our development strategy based on three points which are the revised objectively assessed needs, the ongoing changes in water resources planning and provision, and the potential housing delivery implications, and I'll just take those in turn as briefly as I possibly can. For the assessed needs update, of course, the starting point for local plans always is the objectively assessed need, which is informed by the expected economic growth and assessing if there are any constraints that may prevent that need from being met. And the starting point is what government expects of local authorities that hasn't changed. So, in the light of recent national census results and the COVID-19 pandemic, we undertook to review and update the assessed need. Of course, that outcome has been fully discussed at the last committee meeting, and that is that population has increased, and there's growth in life sciences and IT sectors which have increased and continue to. And what that means is for the planned period that we're looking at 2020-2024 to 2041, the updated jobs figure is now 66,000, which is up from 58,500 before, and the housing need to support those jobs is 51,723, which is up from 4,400 from the first proposals. Greater Cambridge continues to be a dynamic growth area, and we can't get away from this. And I'll just say this, some other parts of the country would love to have some of that growth, but they don't. But we just need to try and make sure that we meet that growth in a sustainable way. Now, one of the infrastructure factors which has a direct impact on meeting the assessed growth needs in a sustainable way is water supply. Now, that is the responsibility of the water authorities, and for Greater Cambridge, that's Cambridge Water. Now, we identified this potential limitation in the first proposals, and we made it clear that the preferred options set out for the plan were dependent on there being evidence of adequate water supply, and without unacceptable environmental harm. And we were waiting for update information from the water planning process. Now, you might recall that Water Resources East in November 2022 published its draft regional water resources management plan, and it identified potential shortage of water supply, which will limit the region's growth, both economically and agriculturally, and cause environmental damage if not oppressed. Now, the regional plan does propose a new water reservoir in the fence for the long term, which is expected to be in operation around 2035 onwards. But in the medium term, it proposes that Anglia Water implements a strategy of water transfer to Cambridge Water from around 2030 onwards. Now, Cambridge Water supplies water for us in our area, and it is yet to publish its own water resources management plan, which should give us more specific information on how it proposes to provide water supply for Greater Cambridge. So, we need that information to enable us to prepare the local plan in a sound way. And of course, I must remind us that the local plan first proposals includes water efficiency policies in the climate change section. Now, the third point is on housing delivery, as well as understanding the implications of water availability. We also need to understand whether the annual average housing delivery rate associated with the increased housing need is deliverable. In particular, in the period towards the end of the plan, when there will be a very significant water supply once a reservoir is delivered. But right now, we don't know whether or not we'll be able to meet our increased needs in full. This is why we are confirming our position now regarding the key strategy elements, but we need to do further work to update that delivery strategy in full. The fewer new homes we have available for us in Greater Cambridge over that plan period, the less likely people will be able to live and work here. And they're likely to have to travel longer distances to and from work and elsewhere, which means more negative effects on that climate change and bird-over-steam improvements that we're hoping to have. Now, I need to reiterate that the current 2018 adult and local plans provide for 38,000 homes to be delivered from 2011 to 2031. An additional 16,000 beyond that has set out in the housing trajectory that was included with those plans. And as far as I'm aware, the 2018 plans were fully supported by the Water Authorities and the Environmental Agency. And the strategic sites that are in that include Nostow, Cambrone West, Pornairfield, and Water Beach. So what do we do? I have commitments at the time of the first proposals where for 37,200 in the plan period up to 2041. And beyond this, the first proposal set out a climate-focused strategy, which includes assumptions of increased housing delivery rates at Nostow and Water Beach and additional homes on the existing side of Edmonton. Now, amongst the other sites, the first proposal has proposed three strategic sites, which are North East Cambridge, Cambridge East at the airport, and the biomedical campus, which incorporates existing campus and further areas to be considered. We consider these sites being on the edge of Cambridge at the most sustainable locations. I should form the building blocks for future development. It means then that we can continue to work on those sites to help inform the policy development for the local plan as we go forward. So having reviewed all the responses that we got for the first proposals consultation, we consider that the first proposals development strategy principles remain valid, and we propose to use them to inform the preparation of the full development strategy going forward. So we have identified that we need increased objective reassess need, but we are not yet in a position to confirm the targets for the jobs and the homes. And that is why we are here this morning, and I move the recommendation in paragraphs 5 to 10 to cabinet for approval, as this will enable us to continue working towards creating the draft local plan for later in 2023. Thank you, leader. Thank you very much indeed, Councillor Hawkins. And my thanks to the authors of this report, Caroline Hunt and Jonathan Dixon and to all of their team has been considerable work going into this and will continue to be considerable work. Councillor Snowbar, would you like to tell us about the outcomes of the scrutiny and overview committee meeting? I mean, I just tell you that there were compliments from people viewing that meeting about the robustness of the scrutiny of the local plan. It did take quite a long time, but this is the most important thing we did. The scrutiny and overview committee did themselves great service by being so thorough about it, and it was noted by the visitors who were interested in the land promoters, really, but they thought a very good job had been done, so thank you for that. So over to you now. Thank you, leader. So I would just like to pick up where you left off thanking the officers for the quality of the documents that we worked with. There were a lot of them, but I think the quality of the documents raises the level at which scrutiny can begin. And I think that made us effective if perhaps somewhat challenging along the way. Well, we did talk a lot. We raised a lot of questions. And in fact, the themed approach that we adopted where we led with the interest in water supply and then proceeded through jobs, development strategy and housing, was a result of, I think, quite a thorough preparation. So it allowed the chair and vice chair of the committee to basically partition those questions into those themes. And while we spent a great deal of time, probably an hour and a half on the water question, it did leave the openings available for the other topics. So let me just run through each. But noting that this was a joint meeting between scrutiny and the overview and the climate and environment advisory committee. So more people involved meant deep level inquiry and some ideas that sparked between the members of the two committees. So we led with water because of its fundamental nature. This is the, if you will, the limiter on the development process. And we investigated in some detailed timing and the feasibility of some of the strategic, if you will, kind of suggestions, the fen reservoir and the supply from graph and water. And question those in some detail, we would like to know more in the fullness of time about the feasibility of those two projects and their relationship to the proposed delivery of housing. And that would, for example, lead to a stepped approach, but the steps would have risks associated with them and those risks might magnify as we go through the planning period. So assumptions about timing, we were particularly concerned about and we would like to raise again in due course. I think there was just as a kind of a separate item, a concern that's in perhaps current developments, even though we're not obliged to the building regulations, don't require some developers working towards schemes which mean housing has much less water demand. And one of the members of climate and environment advisory committee raised the question of is there experience there that we can cite and that we could bring to bear on our planning process and in other ways that we could influence developers to reduce water demand in future housing. I think one key concern and climate and environmental advisory colleagues provided this quite heavily was the possible dispersal, so that if we weren't able to develop the strategic sites as we were seeing now, there would be some dispersal of house delivery which would actually have a serious environmental effect. So there was a concern that we expressed and I think as the plan develops that will have to be considered further. Now we quickly lept from considerations of water onto jobs and one of the first questions was around the safety of the predictions around jobs. We compared the standard model with the model that the planning team were using. We debated the integrity of the model and some of the assumptions made and I think those assumptions do need to be kept scrutinised because they do primarily influence the output, so consistent checks. We were satisfied that the team had done their job well but assumptions need to be considered and reconsidered. We did ask the question of what happens if the houses aren't built and I think we were able to hear the effects on local economy, the inability to deliver a good environment for the people of Greater Cambridge. This was perhaps a little detail towards the end, but how will commuting patterns influence the development of Greater Cambridge by providing easier access to stations Cambridge north, Water Beach Cambridge south? How will that influence the development of the local economy? We debated that Water Beach Newtown might actually provide a little testbed, an example of how the interaction between development and commuting could actually be realised, so watching Water Beach might actually be quite illustrative. Moving on to development strategy, we discussed and in relation to the Cambridge by a medical campus the need for a master plan and that has been discussed in JDCC already. The notion of a master plan I think is particularly important. It's said that CBC has developed so far in a somewhat chaotic way and that needs to be regularised. We had some discussions around government policy and mention of the term gentle density and I think it behoves us to keep an eye on government policy and its change in relation to the local planning process. The members of Climate and Environmental Advisory Committee and I think we would, in scooting overview, want to endorse that. We would like to be involved in the definition of the term unacceptable environmental harm because it is used in the planning process and it needs to be defined. So that was going to do out in the strategy then very briefly on housing and infrastructure. Scooting overview has expressed this view before in regard to infrastructure and that it is available from day zero. I think that might have come from both committee members but our concern about infrastructure being available from day zero because it so defines the shape of what's to come and the attitudes of the people who move into the homes and the businesses. And concern also over, and this would depend on economic circumstances, but the proper scope and aesthetics of the proposed developments would actually be realised in spite of economic pressures. So holding to perhaps our major objectives and deliver the right mix of housing for the right people will continue to be very important and that could get lost somewhere along the way as the plan has developed. So in just to summarise the Scooting overview along with all these considerations and concerns that are included in the former report noted and supported the submission of this stage of the Greater Cambridge Local Plan to Cabinet today. Thank you very much indeed for that very helpful summary. Right, so with Councillor Hawkins' permission because I took the questions at scrutiny I'll respond to some of those in a bit more detail but Councillor Hawkins do interject if you feel there's anything else you want to add. So just picking up some of the key points that you've made now verbally but also in the written report that's in our agenda today. So starting off with that water, I mean Councillor Hawkins has already referenced in her introduction that we're keeping a very close eye on what the water resources management plan is and on the timing of this and I think she's made it clear that there absolutely will need to be a requirement for steps in delivery in order to make sure that the water supply is going to meet the need as well. Actually if officers want to interject on anything then please do feel free to if you feel there's anything else that I need to say. So we've got ongoing discussions with the Environment Agency and with the water companies and our own consultants to understand how the water resources management plan is making provision for the planning decisions to go ahead and you know our firm commitment to infrastructure first doesn't it doesn't just mean roads and busways it means water and electricity and all the rest of it so you know we cannot replicate mistakes of the past by having houses and employment sites built before there is the infrastructure to support them so you know that is a firm commitment and you talked about whether there's examples where less water is required at the point of build that certainly is it is our intentions and that Councillor Hawkins that the per head water consumption will be less as a result of this local plan and am I right in thinking that Eddington as an example of where that's already been implemented that's what I think for the first proposals were aiming for 80 litres per person per day which is less than what has been done now I'm not sure about what the level is at Eddington 80 litres 80 okay so we're so yes that's already there and it's already is already in the plan so moving on you talked about concern regarding the impact of the proposed national policy changes on the appropriateness of identifying updated needs at this point and again Councillor Hawkins has talked about this the MPPF is clear that councils still you know will still need to identify objectively objectively assessed need at the starting point for their plan preparation but again we made it clear that you know if we haven't got that infrastructure and very critically in terms of water that actually you know we will be having and I think I said in the scrutiny meeting we'll be having some really difficult discussions with with government about it because we simply cannot provide houses for which there is there is an adequate water inadequate electricity and inadequate transport infrastructure as well so the next phase of the process is to determine if environmental and other constraints mean that we can meet that need the changes the MPPF it's still being consulted upon at the moment and I don't think the consultation finishes until May March March okay and I'm certainly expecting some quite considerable amendments to what's being proposed at the moment certainly my role at the LGA there's considerable pushback from the LGA on behalf of all political parties to some elements of this but you know we will still be expected to produce local plans but some of the detail will be changing is there anything you want to add to that councillor Hawkins or or officers now okay fine so you you said as far as development strategy is concerned you need reassurance is needed in considering sustainability impacts to identify development strategy so again we're quite clear that you know the strategy that we have taken thus far is the strategy that we are sticking to so you know this is I think this what we're proposing is probably the greenest local plan ever ever produced we are not paying lip service to environmental considerations environmental considerations are determine our strategy so you know you referenced that there might be a need for further dispersal but we're absolutely aware that dispersal to locations away from strategic infrastructure would be detrimental to the environment and that is absolutely not not our intention so that's why we know we're looking at consolidation on the three sites that councillor Hawkins referenced we know that it's going to have to be a different sort of development in some of those places you know land is expensive and buildings will have to be have to be higher if that's not the case if you go for low rise constantly the consequence of that is more more land release so if we want to restrict land release and particularly green belt land release you know what you have to do is build higher density and that means you know if you're not going to build everything very close together it has to go up in order to make sure that you're doing you're doing proper placemaking so there are green spaces even in these more highly populated areas and that's certainly what the plans have shown so far councillor Hawkins do you want to add anything? No just to emphasise that as I said first proposal strategy is still valid it's the what we're holding to which is why we raised these three strategic sites on the edge of Cambridge has been the most sustainable that we want to focus on and try and get everything in place so that we can get those out. Thank you and we know you know and we are not a council that's about building car reliant homes and car reliant businesses we are about taking cars off the road because people don't don't need them because they've got viable alternatives alternative so that's the strategy you talked scrutiny talked about the impact of not delivering enough homes well we know that you know we know that not providing homes and not providing growth not providing space for jobs just drives up our already very very high prices and causes people to go and live elsewhere where it's cheaper and then increases increases commute commuting in or it drives businesses away and we know that some you know major employees employers in our area if we don't overcome the problems of congestion we have at the moment and the lack of housing and the lack of decent business space to meet their needs they will relocate and they won't relocate in the UK they'll relocate abroad so you know government is looking to us to make sure that we we keep the Cambridge effect and we make that proper provision but you know it's um it's it's not simple and you know people who are wanting are going to relocate here from places like Bristol and and Reading where there's a very attractive offer for them they need to be able to afford to they need to be able to afford to live here so you said officers should provide a written definition of gentle density well I think you know we've all I think council Hawkins covered that it's about it's about making sure we're doing placemaking we're not we're not building you know con you know we're not doing the sort of development that happened post war which was just you know big lumps of concrete without any green space that actually we're we're we're encouraging developers to build places where you or I would like to work or might like to live my test is always with my mum like we know could I let my mum live there and we need to build places that we're proud of so it's about when we say gentle density it means places where you know you can you can see the sky where there is greenness where there is there is water it's good places are good to bet be because that's good for the environment it's good for health and well-being very critically you talked about the rationale for considering whether exceptional circumstances for the green for green belt release at the land south of Cambridge by medieval campus again that this that decision ultimately the final decision doesn't rest with us it's a high bar for exceptional circumstances and it's down you know it's down to the promoters to to evidence that both to our satisfaction and I got it wrong in the meeting didn't I secretary of state ultimately isn't it decision yes I think so Jonathan examination examination thank you all right so it's a high bar and it's not our duty to make sure that that that high bar is reached it's the it's the responsibility of the people who want to want to deliver the site and right so so see at climate environment advisory committee supported the climate focus development strategy principle set out in the first proposals and sort of confirmation that we're still using those well yes and they would like to be involved in confirming the definition of unacceptable environmental harm absolutely I think I think that's a piece of work that actually as a whole council we need to we need to understand what we mean by it because I think it's probably not clearly defined it's certainly not in national policy national policy but I think we need we need to know so we'll we'll talk further about that um and we were asked if conversations were being held when they bring districts back potentially meeting somewhere greater Cambridge identified development needs there is a duty to cooperate I think the revisions of the MPPF are calling for that to be ditched I think that's a personally I think that's a terrible mistake you know we have close relationships with neighbouring councils and absolutely we should be talk we should be talking to them um about you know borders which aren't you know they're not they're not walls they're just they're just lines on maps um but we'll have to see what comes out of the government's revision there and on housing um concern about the impact of proposed national changes to infrastructure funding mechanisms on infrastructure and affordable housing delivery so government have suggested changes to the S1S6 process through the introduction of the still levy we're still looking into what the implications for that are I mean when we first looked at it up guard years and years ago my concern was it looked like parish councils were going to do really badly out of it so at that time parish councils did did see some money from developers for um place spaces and things like that and what what was in the original proposal actually saw them getting you know doing really badly out of it and I think we need to make sure that money is still going to our parish councils because actually they are very well placed to know how to spend money to benefit all of the residents being impacted by development but again I think we need to that's an ongoing piece of work Jonathan is there anything you want to add to that because I don't really know an awful lot about where we are with this I'm afraid we also don't know that much about the levy who's very much still going through the process but we'll we'll try and keep track of its implications that's lovely well I mean I'm sure to me council of orphans will be up to speed and will be keeping us all briefed and then concerned about the ability of councils to support delivery of a diverse range of housing type in the economic climate so absolutely so we have referenced in the past quite frequently the lectwin report which showed that uh for developers if they if they plan for a mix of housing types it doesn't impact negatively on the uptake the sale of their core the core market housing um but it means that you know far more people benefit from a better range of housing so we are very committed to the findings of the lectwin report and making sure that we have a diverse range of housing and we're not you know we're not just building houses for millionaires quite honestly which is the risk which is the risk at the moment so you know we have a 40 percent affordable housing target uh within the new plan um you know the the definition of affordable housing uh is quite quite broad broad now um and some some types of affordable housing work well in some places and don't in others in my own village shared equity is really popular i know it's less popular in in other places so i think we might need to make sure that we nuance this to uh you know talk to where any development is happening um and i think that is everything council Hawkins we'd like to pick up anything that's diagnosed just to add to that of course we have housing mix policy um that we apply to new developments anyway and always provides a mix of housing so that is something that we'll be carrying on doing as far as i as far as i know absolutely and we'll hear later about the success of our own council housing house building is there anything you'd like to come back on councillor snowbarth just one comment thank you for the for all those replies uh i think you know the scooching overview process has in a sense delivered and you've understood those concerns raised um i think it was just one and it's a minor footnote but probably worth mentioning um is the distinctively kind of Cambridge aspect to what we do um so there is you know when we're surrounded by developers at the national and the scope of things is national we we keep a theme which is decidedly Cambridge now that might be reflecting the business in the way you know the strategic sites are developed but that's just some something that lurks in the background that we make this place distinctive um in uh in the three dot local plan but just a footnote to finish thank you thank you and i think that is actually referenced by the by the government in their sort of um build back beautiful um narrative narrative and so on um and up absolutely you know it is a distinctive place and i and i think communities want to see development that um either adds uh because of the its innovation or reflects the uh you know the the local vernacular and and so on um so i think that is and i think you know our planners and we have our the design our design panel as well and i think that they're very mindful of that um but council Hawkins is there more that you think we should be doing building building into the planning process i think we're doing as much as we possibly can at this point in time and of course uh we are looking out at what the government is planning on with the proposed changes which might change things um but so far so good um all i can say is thank you to the officers and the officer team they've been brilliant thank you thank you okay uh yes so we'll we'll go back now to the uh to the agenda item and uh questions from cabinet uh council bachelor just as a general comment on this i think it's going to be a regular theme today from our budgeting point of view that in many areas has become very difficult to budget because of the uncertainty over government policies and the unreliability of the government in you know changing tack um almost as a whim so certainly in in my area in housing it's been very difficult to project forward um where we are dependent on the attitude of the government whether you don't get money or not so uh i think we need to be aware of that thank you and there's certainly a lot of putting a lot of pushback on government i think from one of the mayors and metro mayors in particular about you know that this um the fact that we're constantly bidding into you know thousands of different pots and about you know pulling that together and and on the how and how difficult it makes us just having year on year settlements you know we need to have longer settlements so yeah but it's a but that's a problem that's reflected in by all councils regardless of their political color you know we're we're all at the lga certainly saying saying the same thing that this is at the situation at the moment is unsatisfactory and makes it very difficult for us thank you um other cabinet members any questions from any other councillors uh councillor williams uh thank you leader i've got five questions on gender item seven would you like to take them together or in turn um do uh do them on a time then we can give more consideration um so on page 22 table one we have the collective figures for the joint local plan one thing that was expressed by some members was about a breakdown to give a rough guide as to what would be required in the district and the city um just wondering whether cabinet has thought on that and whether we're likely to ever sort of see those figures separated out okay i'm going to uh so we you know the thing is this is a joint local plan um so you know my understanding is that you know but because it's a joint local plan uh you know that's not that's not really that's not really viable uh but i am going to come to officers on this and also of course it's it hasn't been decided as yet so you know i think that at some way down the line it might be we might be able to give some something indicative but absolutely not at this period of time because it's it's not about allocating a certain number of houses to within the cambridge city border and a certain number into the south cambridge and border border it's about the joint local plan meeting the need jointly um jonathan do you want to come in so i think this was was a question also picked up at scrutiny i recall um yes the response we gave um was very much that the benefit of doing this joint plans we look at great cambridge as a whole i haven't sought to split out need in that way but look out the need of the area and plan for it in a comprehensive manner also a number of the sites that are mentioned in this report are some of the major sites are cross boundary and very much depend on where those numbers were split across the lines of those boundaries and so no we haven't done that split um at this point thank you next question so on that same time uh table in response to the 2463 annual rate i'm wondering what mechanisms cabinet really have to deliver that because we're reliant on accelerated delivery rates as the lead members mentioned in places like northstone water beach um what what securities what what measures do you have if developers get permissions and and don't build on them because obviously our trajectory looks like it's uh reliant on these accelerated build out rates which um you potentially puts them on the driving seat than us uh thank thank you um so i will come to officers but i just want to say again this is very much a theme at the lga for all political parties about the fact that there's got to be some way some punitive way of making developers with permissions build out there's got to be something that stops them sitting on stuff or just building out very very slowly now we know developers build to the rate of the uptake of the market and you know market is uh is volatile at the volatile at the moment um but you know we need we need government legislation uh to actually allow us to um or which incentivizes developers to build out at pre-specified rates but uh john i think you add anything about and then i'll come to council or Hawkins you might have something to say i think as as officers we're acutely aware that you know a sound plan needs to be a deliverable plan and in order to demonstrate that we have commissioned the housing delivery study where you have an update as part of this agenda and that's explored delivery around what are realistic and achievable rates around those sites across the delivery strategy so it is our aim using a very carefully cropped evidence base to demonstrate that the strategy we recommend to you is a deliverable one thank you john and council Hawkins nothing to add no okay all right crack on thank you leader my next question refers to what you said about parish councils and about um still not being so i'm trying to look around um now some parish councils because of their size um don't see thankfully the the levels of development because they're un you know be unsustainable but it doesn't mean currently they get nothing at all from because they're they don't qualify for 106 so is that something that in your considerations and looking at 106 that you are taking to consideration so if a parish council sees development then you know it gets it gets section 106 money the government of course changed the rules for developments of less than 10 houses you know that's how i thought that was a terrible mistake and i think a lot of little parish councils thought that was a mistake but that's what that's what government did um you know if if parishes are not seeing development then they won't get anything because they're not getting development um yep please do thank you i'll clarify the question so what i'm saying is some parishes don't see development the meets that reach that threshold but something like a sill potentially would enable them to get something is that something that you're considering when you're having your discussions about sill and 106 et cetera okay so i think the discussions on sill are our early days i think we're still waiting for direction from government so i so the answer is i don't i don't know and i think it'd be unfair for me to put officers on the spot as well because i don't think we know but i think though as things are clarified by government i think we'll you know we can enter into discussions about how that works because i think the whole point with sill is that you identify projects in advance and you know there could be projects that benefit a number of villages a number of villages so i'm sure there's ways about it but the answer is i don't know at the moment do you want to add anything to council organs uh just to say until the government comes up with the plans for what they want to do with infrastructure levy um we kind of give a specific answer as to whether or not parishes or parish councils will get something depending on their size john i'll just echo echo that issue one of the issues we've got in looking at what mechanism we use is we we really need to understand what's coming out of the sill it's it's house crate done certainty i think in terms of the levy and chains coming out um i think we'll continue to monitor it as officers to make recommendations to you but it would be really to understand where that levy is going into any how much time we invest in you know looking at sill in the current system thank you i hope that helps and so i think if i can just ascertain the response my question was whether the council whether cabinet were considering it in their representations so i'll take it that you are so the cabinet have not as yet uh discussed sill because we don't know what it looks like yet cabinet will discuss sill and how how it is used in south cambridge once we have the detail from government about what it's going to be as it is i would be i don't know i don't know what's like okay thank you lead and my last question before a plea that when you do have those conversations that you do bear in mind those parishes that currently you know aren't qualifying um my last question relates to page 26 paragraph 33 and the fourth bullet point down um oh sorry second to last question this is where it says about the removal from the green belt and i'm wondering how cabinet is sort of justifying that in relation to a motion that we passed in july 2020 the motion that stood in the name of councenick writes that the district council would committed to the promotion of exception sites but it's dedicated to protecting the green belt in the emerging local plan so we passed a motion which was supported by all in the in the chamber of all parties that we were going to protect the green belt and now in the document it says about releasing green belt for development so i'm wondering whether that motion was considered in your decision making and then apologies chair i lost count i do have one more thank you uh so nothing's nothing's changed um you know we are we are still um it it's still our intention to protect the green belt um the legislation says that green belt can only be released if those exceptional circumstances are are met you know that's that's the that's the rules um and you know they're the government's rules and they're the ones that will will stick by leader do you accept there is a choice of the council and the local plan whether we apply to release green belt or not through the local plan process sorry i don't quite understand what you say you're saying that we ourselves put forward green belt which doesn't which doesn't make exceptional circumstances and so i'm not quite sure what you're saying so i'm saying this says and continues to work exploring the case of the allocation additional land to the south and it's removal from the green belt so the local plan requires removal of green belt reducing green belt that's something that this council in this document is pursuing um so that's not a government decision that's a decision of the council and i i'm challenging whether that actually complies with the motion we passed previously where we said we're going to protect the green belt one would assume that you're protecting it in its entirety not protecting it and then changing it and removing some so we have to we have to conform to national planning policy and we are not deviating from national planning policy and you know the government uh are supportive of protection of green belt we are supportive protection of green belt but the legislation says if a case can be made for exceptional circumstances then we are obligated to uh to allow its release so nothing's nothing's changed we are abiding by national planning policy on on this so nothing's nothing's changed um council Hawkins do you want to add anything and then i'll come to jonathan perhaps only to say even though we are still protecting and we you know yes we agree we'll protect the green belt it doesn't mean that nothing can happen in the green belt if it needs to happen but if it does have to happen then there's uh exceptional circumstances to be met i'm sorry but i do not see that there's a contradiction there jonathan just to be clear in the decision uh on the strategy out there we're taking today um at the biomedical campus um the first proposals put forward um consulted on whether there should be a further release from the green belt reflecting the the very specific uh needs of the campus and as part of the wider cambridge area um we've received uh comments on that through the consultation and we're still exploring the evidence related to that to understand whether that exceptional circumstance exists and we will come back to members at the next stage and provide the evidence and all that as you can make but that green belt release was very much uh based around uh a specific case being explored about the needs and the special circumstances around the campus cuddlawilliams do you want one more have you yes leader um so this really is the last one this time so 40 percent affordable housing um and that is something that i think we all agree on and we all identify isn't as needed um but we also know those with the second planning committee especially that on strategic sites achieving 40 percent is extremely difficult um so for example water beach was at 30 percent uh and that's and with the local plan the way it is and having such larger sites which i understand for environmental purposes and the high density but how how is the cabinet what is your plan to deal with the issues that that arises in trying to ascertain the 40 percent affordable housing because we know that on these bigger sites it's incredibly hard to get um so my concern is by although there are good reasons it's sort of trade-offs isn't it a lot of the time what we're doing although having that high density is good for that purpose how do we make sure we actually get 40 percent affordable housing thank you and you're quite right it is it's really hard and it's really hard when uh you know developers are responsible for providing schools and doctor surgeries and roads and so on what i i hope is that you know the the sites that have been identified because they're already well connected and because the gcp proposals are going to be very significant in putting in the physical infrastructure there that there will be less of a draw on the developer's pocket to provide things like roads and and roundabouts and so on and that that means that we have a greater chance of achieving the r40 target which as you say is really important to all of us particularly with house prices only going one way in this area so you know undoubtedly if the plan was to um i mean such as north north stale where there was no infrastructure at all a major roadways had to be put in you know at massive massive massive cost by keeping new uh the significant new development close in and around in and around cambridge a lot of that infrastructure is all is already there and again that's when we talk about sustainable it's environmentally sustainable but it also hopefully means that it's more financially sustainable as well um so you know there will be there will be difficult negotiations um but we're setting a high we're setting a high target um you know in the expectation that we will achieve that we will achieve that high target wherever possible council Hawkins um thank you that also just to say i think as what i'm not sure of the specific details i know that we have currently a review process um for looking at later develop later phases of development uh on water beach um and that's something that we will be extending obviously to newer sites or newer study sites as they come up so there will be ways of making sure that we try and get as much of the 40% as possible as those sites get delivered over the 10 to 15 years jonathan i've just to finish that point as well uh as officers we also commission viability evidence so at the next stage we'll be updating the viability evidence that accompanies the local plan so hopefully we'll be able to demonstrate uh what the implications of uh the plan as a whole has in terms of viability but yes it is challenging there are a lot of demands on the value coming out of development but uh we hope we can demonstrate again a deliverable plan thank you that's going to be a really interesting piece of work so thank you very much and much indeed i hope that provides a bit of reassurance okay are there any more questions any we have a member of the public a member of the public wants to ask anything then please please do you'd be welcome to okay right i'm not going to read out all the recommendations because they are many um but they are on page 818 um so right do members agree with the proposals as presented in the paper thank you anyone wish to vote against anyone wish to abstain so cabinet therefore agrees the proposals by affirmation thank you so moving on to the draft regional water resources plan for eastern england consultation response and councillor peter mcdonald is going to present this and i think councillor Henry bachelor is going to second it so councillor mcdonald thank you leader um this is a of course a joint submission both from south cambridge and their city and from both authorities it makes it clear about our concerns in water supplies going going forward so we do as both councils support the demand side measures which are covered in in the report of the submission to wre and hope that those can be brought forward as soon as possible we're also calling for an aspiration of good ecological status in all water bodies which is very top of mind i think for a lot of residents in south camps and this especially that is focused on on chalk streams in our area of which there are many and we've seen impacts through climate change especially last summer so a key part of the report we talk about the young glim water provision uh the time limited provision of supply until 2030 that was also mentioned by councillor Hawkins and the ffends reservoir project hopefully coming on stream from 2035 to 37 or earlier if possible water quality features in in the submission as well as quantity and additionally we talk about soil management in the context of agriculture and that's addressed as part of the elms announcement by government in june 2022 so i believe that we have given this a great deal of thought amongst members and appreciate the work that the john and other officers have done on this and we do ask cabinet to support the recommendations thank you thank you very much councillor bachelor do you want to speak on this i mean i won't go into too much detail leader but just to reiterate what councillor mcdonald was saying it's you know the council has given a lot of thought to the responses as you know we've just heard has significant implications particularly on house building in the area and i think the proposed response that we have in front of us today really does hammer home that to water resources east so yeah i would echo councillor mcdonald's support of this proposed response and of the recommendations in the papers so i'm perfectly happy to second thank you thank you very much and obviously this is a joint response between us and cainbridge city yeah which is you know always needs quite a lot more officer officer work to do but i think has been very successfully achieved um so the summary is that we know we have we have serious significant concerns about water issues so hopefully that's been i'll i'm confident that's been very well communicated through this response um any questions on this from cabinet members no uh councillor ellington thank you jamie um leader uh i think my concern is that i was at a meeting with the environment agency and angry of water last friday and where there is water there is fluid sewage and there is outflow from that sewage plant and it is the water management that i want to emphasise and ask members to emphasise i was intrigued and irritated by the fact that angliaw water um are saying that um the the main problem with the outflow of water is that people are building extensions and houses and putting water into the sewage rather than surface water um disposal and they gave the distinct impression that the water that comes from cambourne and north stow would uh yes includes uh surface water but there would be a dis a junction somewhere where the water that came from surface water goes one way and the water that is effluent goes the other way now and therefore it wasn't their fault that there was too much water coming out of out and strove sewage works and going to webshole slows um and they are going to have a plan one day to decide how they're going to deal with all this extra water so can i ask council to consider not only where they're getting the water from for all that development but where it's going afterwards because it is a distinct problem and already up and strove have been sent a letter by the environment agency that they are putting too much water through the system okay so we're all aware that there is a significant national problem of outflow of raw sewage into into our rivers it's been the newspapers are being full of it yours is quite specific um so i think we'll go back and we'll just do a little bit of research and give you a written answer that's more specific to the case that you that you brought up because i don't think maybe jonathan has the information at his fingertips i think i would just refer back to um we the council agreed a response to the drainage and wastewater management plan several months ago and i believe the council's echo concerns around making sure that proper infrastructure is in place and so on so it probably is for for a separate report i'm afraid but yes i think the council has echoed those concerns previously thank you so we'll we'll come back to you on that so thank you very much indeed uh council mcdonald did you want to say anything on that subject no i um i think um sue council entrance raised something quite specific so hopefully quite specific answer rather than something general would be more helpful thank you very much any more questions though in which case we'll go to the recommendations which are detailed on page 32 so right so do members agree with the proposals anyone wish to vote against anyone wish to abstain so cabinet therefore agrees the proposals by affirmation now going on to item nine which is a new build council housing strategy 2020 to 25 update and councillor john bachelor is going to present this and councillor john williams is going to second it so over to councillor bachelor sorry over yes councillor bachelor sorry thank you this one this one yes sorry got a brace of him here thank you leader uh first uh i need to um approve we need to approve an amendment um the amendment is that uh the yes finders that cabinet recommend to council to approve the updates of the new build council housing strategy 2020 to 25 the actual recommendations the two recommendations remain the same can i just move that please so so this is rather than being a decision being taken by cabinet today this is a recommendation that goes to goes to full council so uh do uh does everyone agree with that sorry i need a seconder for that john williams going to second it uh everyone agreed anyone vote against anyone abstain so we agree the amendment the amendment the amendment jolly good okay so back to you councillor thank you very much so this is a good news story we're having to revise our housing strategy because we have actually met the objectives uh well in advance of the original plan so um the update really is only about two issues uh and that is the annual target um for the number of new homes that we bring forward um that is currently a target of 70 uh we we are proposing that that should go to 75 per year we're also asking that the modeling period of payback i the formula for assessing the viability of projects be extended from the current 35 years to 45 years it should be made plain that this is in order to give us some flexibility we will continue to actually use a 35 year formula as the fallback position um but the way that this works is that we have to bid on the open market and we have competitors whose formula is really quite different um certain housing associations use a formula of something of the order of 50 years which makes their capacity uh in terms of the amount that they can pay for housing is significantly higher um we don't anticipate going to 45 years but it's there uh as the fallback position so there are also a number of minor changes which you'll find under paragraph 12 um there's a very long list of those which i won't go through in detail uh but they're largely updating with change situations which many of us are already well aware of so i'm happy to recommend this to cabinet and uh i should say that uh this is a huge achievement by kirstin and her team who've done a brilliant professional job um and are continuing to do an excellent job on behalf of the council in a quite difficult business atmosphere so uh i recommend the recommendations to cabinet thank you very much council bachelor council williams thank you leader i'm very very happy to second this i think it's absolutely impressive performance uh by our housing team to achieve the numbers that we're now seeing after just four years we've doubled and 35 to 70 was our target and we've actually built over 80 council homes and that um you know going forward we're increasing that target to 75 and i'm sure we're going to uh improve on that even um it's amazing because um we suffer from a lack of owning our own land and uh that has been an enormous issue for us but i'm pleased that we did agree to uh and we haven't had purchased land opposite this um these offices uh to build more houses in cambourne but i think it's absolutely amazing given that we have a we don't have an awful lot of land that we can build on and that uh we've achieved such astonishing targets and this is all for the benefit of our residents who though is who cannot afford to um to buy their own property um or cannot afford the private rented market rates so i'm very pleased to second this thank you thank you very much indeed councillor milnes yeah thank you leader and i just wanted to say something of the direct impact on our local residents of this success in our building and in sourston where i'm the member or one of the members we've just taken receipt of a combination of mixed ownership and further council properties in total that site in sourston is providing 60 council housing uh to uh with a preference and a priority to people with a local connection so this is a real boom when property is very difficult to obtain for particularly young families who can't afford the outrageous average price house pricing in the cambridge area and i'd like to just add my thanks and applaud the the efforts of our housing team thank you thank you very much indeed yes um so well you know kirsten had team have done a fabulous job here and you know by particularly on exception sites in villages it helps keep our villages diverse because otherwise they just become full of older people i'm afraid and having council housing there fortunately uh increases increases the the range of people who can live there which keeps places vibrant and alive um are there any other questions council Williams thank you leader and i think housing is one of those council housing of those subjects that we tend to be able to agree on and i do think actually historically one of the strengths is council houses that we kept our council housing which other other councils didn't and i think we're all very grateful that that decision was made um i think it's also very sensible to look at the more long term you know it's we're not a a business that's looking at certain periods of time to to make it 45 years um it's a sensible approach the the only thing i would just ask is whether because we have the right to buy and whether that has um we will be taking consideration any potential sort of sales and how that affects if we're looking at more long term and the discounts that are applicable um to minimise any potential losses um by taking that approach just to um ask that that's being considered when making purchases and looking at the assessments thank you i'm going to come to councillor bachelor but again i think it's again that's government policy which is outside of our hands um but yes yes i see officers are popping up on the screen as well but i'll go to councillor bachelor first and then if he wants to defer to officers yes so um yeah of course uh right to buy does is a legal obligation uh and is still effective i mean i'm glad to say it's not running at the same level as as it has done in the past it's worth remembering when actually the this legislation for right to buy was bought in we had the best part of 9 000 houses we now have 5 500 or 600 um and so there's been a steadily decline uh again mostly about government policy uh in that for long periods we weren't allowed to actually replace the the social housing and in fact they took away our responsibility for building social housing for long periods so there's difficulties there um right to buy is running between 20 and 30 properties per year so we are in the plus side um hopefully we are adding overall something probably over the wardrobe about 40 houses uh each year and um we will intend to continue to do that uh as long as we fund it and it meets the formula so yes we people that in mind uh equally the with the 106 issue uh and the uncertainty that the government's managed to create yet again with looking at that that area almost all of the houses we have we bring on board our 106 projects uh and if that changed then the whole approach to how we actually purchase for more housing would have to be looked at again so you know another complication on the horizon thank you thank thank you uh I see Peter Campbell would like to come in yeah just a quick one um what John's mentioned so councillor back to the mentioned is absolutely right I just draw members' attention to paragraph nine on page six to one of the report about risk management which makes specific reference to the uh the cost law calculations part of the part of the right to buy whereas properties are not excluded from the right to buy but if they're sold in the first 15 years we recover the cost of acquisition so that that gives a degree of protection uh and also to remind members that over recent years um we have been we have been building and acquiring more properties than we have sold so we have been growing the the housing stock thank thank you very much indeed any more questions no okay so I'm coming to the recommendations which are on page 49 um the cabinet approves the update oh sorry the um recommend council thank you it's recommended that cabinet recommends to council the new build council housing strategy 2020 to 25 including setting the target annual completions for 23 to 24 and 24 25 at 75 homes per year and be increasing the modelling period for payback from 35 to 45 years uh so do members agree with the proposal anyone wish to vote against anyone wish to abstain jolly good cabinet therefore agrees the proposals by affirmation thank you very much Peter and Kirstin thank you so moving on to item 11 is the capital strategy so I'm moving on to all things finance now so councillor oh I've missed the business there and I've missed how can I miss the business plan it's item 10 right the most important thing the business plan right thank you apologies uh so I'm going to present this and uh councillor Brian Milne's is going to uh second it and we've had um a we've had quite a lot of feedback from scrutiny of overview on this which I'll come to councillor Stobart about so the revised business plan has gone through um a number of iterations but you know very much builds builds on that on the previous plan um we are sticking to our our priorities our priorities of being green to our core and building houses are affordable for everyone to live in of supporting local local businesses uh with particular focus on SMEs and of ensuring that we are a modern and caring modern and caring council so you know we've been incredibly successful in uh ticking stuff off we've done it done an awful lot of stuff the transformation work that uh Jeff memory has been leading on has uh delivered massive massive benefits um so lots of progress has been made and it's just important that we keep the keep the impetus up so I think this is the document is very very well set out it's very clear see what we're doing we have clear we have clear targets and hopefully it will give us good preparation as we move forward to uh to the next stage so if I could just ask councillor Milnes to contribute thank you thank you chair yes I have to second this we've been through several iterations of our business plan and this continues the good work in that direction I think if your discretion leader I would quite like to hear the comments from scrutiny first before coming back and responding to their fairly sterling work in this respect thank you thank you I think that's a good suggestion uh council stop art over to you yeah thank you leader so we looked at the business plan um the same meeting as we discussed the draft budget um now uh this had a different character I think to our previous the scrutiny of the local plan in that there was a lot of detail discussed so I'll try to um pull out and I think the report covers it well but um to give you that that kind of um higher level view of some of our concerns and I'll I'll deep dive into some of the details um so uh we were concerned about context um so understanding the context um in relation to this the significance of figures stated so sometimes we are lacking context um and I think in in the the discussion we were satisfied that that context was established but in regard to numerical value sometimes targets were presented so um you know good targets but expressed qualitatively and we thought that there should be numbers um and in the case for example of housing upgrades that the quality of the housing upgrade now it's asking a lot to say this would be a passive house upgrade uh or whatever but there should be some numbers around things like upgrades so that we can actually comment sensibly and then make appropriate recommendations so in a little bit more perhaps some of the specific things that came up um were they're going to be homes for refugees included in the um aim to build 75 new council homes a year um in relation to installing double glazing the solar panels at existing council homes so that that was the context of the discussion about standards um the there was uh an urge from uh colleagues on scooting overview to maximize now that has to be set in context of available budgets but a reasonable maximization of that kind of effort but against targets um so that apart from anything else the effort is quantified um we've concerned um about threats to mobile warden scheme so this is a kind of creeping cost effect where suddenly one day we realize that well we can no longer support that because the costs have been coming up and suddenly uh that's unaffordable so mobile warden schemes came up for some discussion um supporting nascent high streets so in the big developments i think we referred to um of course cambourne and north stowe but elsewhere where there are in a sense high streets that have been neglected or there is potential for high streets that we should be supporting that and of course there are things coming up like the um shared prosperity fund for high street support which were um which were aware of um and reaching needy people um so um we wanted through scooting overview so there were various actions without going into into great detail um but there has been a big effort to reach needy people um but we really wanted to put the emphasis and i suppose we're reacting from what we're seeing at uh at parish level where you know some of the parish council members we deal with are saying well actually you can't you know people are put off by and i will quote walls of words um and you know we spend some time communicating uh and um you know helping parish councillors to relate to some of the initiatives um that are being proposed so i think that's a continuing effort and we would note that um there has been progress but it needs to continue so um just to say there's there was a lot of detail um and they were some of the themes and some of the specifics and i think uh the list that's presented in the report is is perhaps a little more complete but i hope um leader that gives an impression of what we discussed thank you so councillors if you want to give me an i'll go through some formal responses to to key points and then come back to you and then i'm going to ask councillor Handley to talk about homes for refugees and i'm going to ask councillor Macdonald to talk about support for the high for the high streets uh and then but obviously all cabinet members are welcome to contribute um so your concern about context i think where we can possibly do better is to i think what scrutiny might have missed is that very often behind these numbers there are actually policy or strategy papers sitting behind so you know we you know that we what we want is a a published plan that's accessible for people um and if it's you know if it's massive then actually nobody's going to be interested in it so i mean i'm very pleased with the way this is presented because i think it you know it uses plain English which was something that you know we were very keen to make sure it was introduced five five years ago and i think we've been really successful you know that it is something that a member of the public might pick might pick up and read and if there's too much too much detail there actually it'll just switch switch people off but i think very often there are you know there are other documents sitting behind and i think we can put in put in the links uh to you know so that you know scrutiny he wants to look in more detail can can go can go behind the figures all right because you know figures are never never arbitrary there's always something behind them so on the issue of the 75 new council homes a year so you know those are not those are not homes which will be funded by the the refugees grants you know those are quite clearly the council council houses and we've just we've just done the paper that sits that sits behind that sits behind that so you know the work that's going on for refugees is something completely different and i'm sorry that got lost somewhere along the way you talk about double glazing well you know actually all of our properties have double glazing as a minimum at the moment and since 2015 we've actually been installing triple glazing units and composite doors as standard as part of our planned maintenance programme so again i think you know sitting behind this is the detail of what our planned maintenance programme is our properties all have efficient heating systems and where there are old electric solid fuel oil systems we're replacing them wherever possible and we're replacing them with air source heat pumps which of course are much more but more beneficial for the environment and uh and hopefully cheaper for people to run um council bachelor might like to add some detail there so they all have to all right what we're now doing is triple glazing so again we need the reference to that the you asked for better information on the website to help parish and town councils understand the support available to them in providing electric vehicle charging points and you talked about barriers of walls of words but i would argue that actually our job as local members is to help our parish councils battle their way through the bureaucracy but actually i don't think we can have done more on this one so there was a section in the november parish ebot bulletin all about how parish councils can apply for this and that went out the end of november and then towards the end of last year we'd actually issued a news release which had really good local coverage on this and that was in the independent uh cambridge live cambridge news and and on bbc radio cambridge and that's tv and the cambridge network and there's been lots reminders about it on the council's own social media channels um and then before the launch of the ev grant scheme we had attached an article about ev charging uh into the autumn 22 edition of the south cam's magazine so we'd already flagged it there um and that was about that was delivered to 70 000 households across the district so they all got flagged that it that this was coming and we gave a presentation on the grant to the parish liaison meeting which is usually really well attended by parish clerks and we ran an article in the december issue of the zero carbon communities newsletter um and more generally there's an email inbox about the grant through which we've spoken to several parishes which is and we've set up teams calls from them and offered them advice on the grant and ev charging generally and actually on the website um it's a pretty clear header there which is a link to all this all this stuff so i don't really think we could have done more than we have done um to actually you know flag up uh that you know this this ev grant councillor mills you want to interject on this one well no i was just going to reinforce the fact that the parish has my own uh parish has two applications in from a community organisation for this so the the original grant grant available is only a total of 20 000 this financial year uh so i think we may well find that's at least taken up as a minimum and i think we'll get a lot a lot more next financial financial year yeah yeah and of course we now have our ev charging which i in in the car park here which i think is going to be available any second certainly hope it is because i've come in with very low charge today um so um so another item said um supports an ambition as a headline objective encouraging residents to reduce total waste materials generated um and actually i will bring in councillor henry bachelor on this as well um and officers are asked to develop for this objective to look at looking at best practice now there's a deffra proposed target of reducing residual waste per capita um by 50 50% of 2019 levels by 2042 which is actually quite a long time away once that targets finance finalised the waste policy team will develop intermediate target proposals for the for the nearer term such as 2025 2030 and so on the service key goals for the circular resource strategy um and councillor bachelor might be able to talk more about that however there's no practical improvement methodology yet to directly link or ascribe residual waste reduction to behavioral change interventions as there are always several compounding factors but it's something we do all the time and i remember prior to covid or maybe it's actually almost during covid being at milton country park where our team uh were there you know with a stall handing out stuff to people encouraging people face to face to do things to reduce reduce their own reduce their own waste so it's a you know it's a constant piece of work that we do but i'll ask councillor bachelor to come at the end and talk about that um and then scrutiny requested cabinet take urgent action to uh to protect the viability mobile warden schemes in south cambridge uh in the light of significantly increased costs will obviously um age uk delivering delivering these schemes for us so again it's it's partly out of our control we're the funders um but we are in the process of a planned review of the mobile warden schemes as the additional 200 000 project investment comes to an end uh at 23 24 so you know we need to review it John williams might want to comment you know it's got to demonstrate it's got to and councillor will handle it's got to demonstrate value value for money um and we need to look at ways of you know how how can it how can it get how can we do it better how can the money be better spent how can it have more reach but i'll ask you to comment then urges cabinet to make sure that council continue to offer residents never improving array of ways in which to contact it by by telephone so a lot of work's been gone into this and Jeff um member he's been doing lots of work to make sure that we're using really cutting edge edge technology to make sure that people can always contact us by phone and they're not sitting listening to terribly irritating music for hours on end which send us all into commit conniptions um so we know we've we've got this golden number and we've got call back arrangements now so those are already implemented um and we're looking at other emerging technologies which will really enhance the customer experience and provide an increase in telephone contact hours so that's already in the plan um you referenced about the high high streets of Campbell and Norstow the business plan's been updated to include fledgling high streets so that was in the that was in the business plan um and we'll continue to use um you know what are sometimes limited resources to make sure we support support the high support the high streets um because they're absolutely critical to many of our many of our villagers particularly as we see a reduction in public transport at the moment um having a village having a little village co-op or spa or something uh can make all the difference in the world in the world to people who are otherwise isolated um and then um I did read la I did smile when I read emphasised the importance of monitoring the four-day week trial including where officers continue to work five days a week because I hope we made it really clear that actually you know or the monitoring of this is absolutely critical to whether we know whether it's been a success or not and a lot of initial work was already was done I think there's you know the um health and well-being of staff is um is fairly constantly being being monitored um and you know we said all along that if we saw a downturn in performance then things would be halted um I've talked quite a lot of quite a few officers I'm getting some really nice feedback from officers about how that one day off they come back feeling like they've had a bit of a holiday um and you know they feel feel far far more motivated um so you know the people I've spoken to I'm getting very positive feedback from so you know of course this you know of course this will be carefully monitored and you know the obviously we have people such as our legal team who continue to work five days a week and you know there's a I think a sophisticated piece of work to go on there to make sure that all services are functioning as well as each other um I'm going to go around each cabinet member if I may to ask them if they want to pick up on anything if I start with council Henry bachelor sure thank you leader so just picking up on the point um you mentioned at the start regarding the new uh DEFRA DEFRA targets for reducing household waste generated yeah obviously that is something we as a council and as a collection authority will be striving towards albeit uh I think as has been mentioned 90 of percent of that work will be trying to change human behaviour which you know as I think we know isn't always going to be the easiest or the quickest change to make but obviously needless to say it's something that the council is very much committed to doing um what we are waiting for at the moment is for DEFRA to uh confirm that that proposed target of 2042 and a 50 reduction in household waste uh is achieved by that date once that is weak and then internally um essentially benchmark and have you know sort of shorter term goals on our route to achieving that so um it's absolutely something we're committed to doing as an authority um but yeah as I said it 90% of it is going to try and change people's behaviour so you know that's through marketing the leader mentioned uh outreach events we've had at Milton Country Park for example so it will be um a challenge but I'm sure certain there's one we as an authority are up for um and I see Bode's appeared but if I could just have one more thing then one more comment and I'll pass over to him and that is just to bang the drum if I can about something in the action plan that relates to my portfolio um and that is around the uh the greening of the council's own estate and operations obviously one of our main um our main aims is to be green to the core and I think it would be quite hypocritical of us if we weren't you know we didn't start that in-house so just to promote what we are doing there obviously we are trying to green our own fleet so our own vehicles starting with the refuse vehicles um we currently have another electric refuse been on order and are about to place it in order for another one so that is on the way I think I've been mentioned earlier the greening to the building here is underway now and the new car park with electric charging points is now open uh and underneath the car park obviously is our ground source heat pumps um albeit has arrived a bit later than anticipated but albeit it is now it is now operational um and we do have the EV charging project that is coming forward at our own waste at our own waste depot so all that is online and I'm hoping does feed into uh the council's own aim of being green to the core so I just wanted to bang the drum for that particular point in the business plan thank you thank you brodo do you want to add anything to that uh thank you councillor Smith nothing for for that for me to add I can answer any questions if there's any but no further points to add thank you thank thank you very much uh council mcdonald hi thank you leader uh I think the specific feedback on scrutiny was around uh with regard to business was the flesh the so-called fledgling high streets so we do take that on board uh and the and the officer team is taking that on board um what we've tried to do in the business plan is be as specific as possible uh on with the with the kpi's with the key performance indicators in terms of what we're trying to do and we would also apply that to the so-called fledgling high streets and the the final point is that uh we are hoping to deploy the shared prosperity fund that's over the next two years uh so we are as we said at scrutiny we're open minded on which high streets and how we deploy those funds thank you thank you councillor williams uh thank you leader on the monitoring of the trial um we have the bennett institute from county university who are now helping us uh with that and as you said the whole life principle of the three months that we're now in the trial period is to gain evidence and to see how it is delivered and uh to inform our decision that we'll make in may but I would say that we are you know the the champions of local um government in this um I think we are the only public service organisation that uh that is doing this um the number in the private sector but this is the first public sector and we have a lot of eyes on us and um I'll assure you that in those circumstances we're going to make sure that everything is properly monitored so that when we do make our decision in May it is the right decision and I'm sure if we decide to continue others will follow thank you councillor mills just a couple of things to add the government legislation that's coming forward in terms of waste includes proposals for a weekly food waste collection and my colleague councillor Henry bachelor will have the the difficulty of working out the impacts of that because it there's clearly cost implications of that but in general terms food waste is a huge contributor to global warming the climate change we waste some 35 percent of our food that we take out of the ground actually we leave quite a lot of it in the ground as well because the agricultural sector for example has to have contingency in its contracts for the supermarkets for example so this is a whole area that's going to come in challenges to arena just repeat our policy of generating renewable energy across our estate wherever possible and this is going wider into the whole of Cambridgeshire to do that the lack of charging points is a real problem particularly in rural areas which is what our scheme that we've mentioned before looks to help address and that's what I'd like to comment on for the moment thank you thank you councillor Hawkins was there anything planning related not sure there was actually I think we've said a lot already we've done planning all I can say is that I'll continue to you know work on a local plan to ensure that we would build homes where thank you councillor Henry thank you leader first of all a comment on the mobile warden scheme which was raised by the scrutiny committee you know obviously costs are going up age UK's costs are going up and I am aware councillor Ellington has raised concern with me about the effects it's having on her scheme in the swavesy the swavesy scheme and we are looking at that and we're seeing what we can do what is happening at the moment is that the county council sort of in line with the changes to the integrated care system are looking at different ways of providing this kind of service what we want to do is to make sure that we work with them we don't duplicate I'm speaking with councillor van der Venne who's chair of the health and well-being committee and I've also been speaking with councillor county council officers need to make sure that they understand what we are trying to achieve as well as what they are trying to achieve and work together so I'll no doubt be coming back to you to the cabinet with some recommendations in the coming weeks good and I think you know that I think it might we might arrange for a scrutiny to have a little briefing on on what the recommendations are because this is very important to all of us particularly looking ahead seeing how we work with the ICS on on this sort of thing so that we don't get duplication of services there so I think we'll we'll think about some you know at the right time you know presentation to scrutiny of an overview and maybe even more broadly than that that's very happy to do. Did you want to say anything about the refugee? Well we're talking about we're on the agenda item which is you know the business plan it would be really easy to overlook the huge amount of work that our officers have been putting in on the homes for Ukraine front you know a year ago we didn't know any of this was going to happen and our officers responded their response was just fantastic I mean really was really really good and they've had to cope with changing circumstances changing policies from the government and that's no criticism of the government you know things they're working on the hoof as well and you know what we have done we've had lots of really kind messages back saying how much the work of our officers the council has been appreciated by the Ukrainians themselves and by the you know and by the hosts. One final thought though is that we do have a problem in that not every host can continue past the six months or the past the year mark and we are engaging still in a project to try and recruit more because what we would like to do is to right relocate Ukrainian guests to a place quite close to where they are already for obvious reasons you know they've got children in school they've got jobs some of them so we're working hard on that but we're not I wouldn't say we're really optimistic that we can deliver as as as good a service as we might want to but we are working hard to try to try and do that. Thank you and my sense from talking to other people is that actually what we provide here is very very much superior to what refugees are experiencing in very many other parts of the country it really is the gold standard here. Other councils are looking at what we do and trying to emulate it. Yeah exactly and this is down to down to the leadership of this council and and our our officers who were still dealing with COVID and then had to start dealing with Ukraine as well so I I get lovely comments regularly from hosts saying how impressed they are with the you know the copious amounts of support they get and the fact that we're always on the end of the phone to answer any questions so yeah sometimes we forget to pat ourselves on the back and when we've done something really well. Councillor Batchelor. Thank you very much Could I just echo what Bill had just been saying the community's department and the housing were very closely together and put in a huge amount of work to support refugees. To the specifics I just want to add a little more detail perhaps to the subsidy money coming from government for refugee housing so this is for 30 houses 28 for Ukrainians and two for Afghans. The Afghans require much larger housing and that's why there's a specific arrangement there. What we would now just start to get the detail of what the government is actually proposing as we've only known about this for a couple of weeks so what they're proposing is that of the 28 Ukrainian housing they provide 40% of the cost of the property plus another 20 000 pounds for extraneous costs and so on for the Afghans they're providing 50% so we have to find the other 60 or 50% of the money. This is a good deal as far as we're concerned because obviously in the long run we were hopefully we will have no further need for refugee housing and they will revert to our own housing stock and so what this actually means is with this subsidy it means that we can buy houses that don't actually meet our viability formulas so bigger and better houses hopefully. On the second item which is the maintenance and the double-clasing and so on I refer members to the housing strategy which makes it clear that we have a huge foot-on-going investment plan two streams to that that's our plan maintenance where we regularly replace obsolete kitchens bathrooms and that sort of thing and then there's a second stream which is the retrofitting of housing to work towards our zero carbon aims this is a 30 year programme and we're committing something in the order of 400 million pounds in order to achieve this over that period. So plenty going on thank you. Thank you thank you very much. All right are there any other questions? No. Councillor Tavart do you want to come back at all on behalf of scrutiny? Yeah just on one point which I think was very well made is is there's a whole bunch of stuff that lies behind the action plan or maybe over it whatever but is linked so that the reading of the action plan should be set in the context of those policy statements and that guidance. So I think it behoves us to be as committee more thorough in checking all that stuff out but it would be great if officers could actually give us some signposts to some of those policy documents. No it does suggest that the action plan might actually be a little more dynamic in the census and action as a policy background maybe risks and context information so it says maybe this just needs to be more than word tables it needs to be some somewhat more lively linked document that we could refer to but that that's perhaps for the future but we do take that point that we should be looking at policy in a little more more detail but we would be grateful for the help to access the right stuff. Thanks so I think that's a really helpful suggestion and we will do that. All right so thank you so thank you to scrutiny for that. Well look we've been going for about two hours does anybody want a quick five minute comfort break because we've all had a lot of money stuff to get through which I hope we get through five minutes five minutes well reconvene at 1155. We join us after a brief comfort break and we're just going to resume by voting on the business plan. So the recommendations are set out in paragraph five on page 63 do you members agree with the proposal? Anyone wish to vote against the proposal? Anyone wish to abstain? The cabinet therefore agrees the proposals by affirmation moving on swiftly to item 11 which is the capital strategy and Councillor John Williams is going to present this and I think Councillor Brian Milne's is going to second it so over to you Councillor Williams. Thank you leader this is purely to upgrade the capital strategy to include new guidance from the government so I hope it's not gone through. Thank you very much Councillor Milne's and I'm happy to support that thank you. Any questions from the cabinet? Any questions from anyone else? Okay so we're moving on to the sorry no no no panic not we're going to move to the recommendation and the vote doesn't trust me okay so the recommendation is at three on page page 85 so do members agree with the proposal? Anyone wish to vote against? Anyone wish to abstain? Cabinet therefore agrees the proposals by affirmation and item 12 is the Treasury Management Strategy which is going to be presented by Councillor John Williams and seconded by Councillor Henry Batchelor lovely Councillor Williams. Thank you leader just two points on this first of all you'll see from the amendment to it that we're not proposing to have any further short term borrowing for for this year and the second thing is that you'll see that on the counterparties we have included three or four new banks but three of these banks are foreign banks to a German and one is Canadian and the reason for that is that because of the very poor financial performance of this country actually foreign banks now represent a better place to invest their money than UK banks. Thank you Councillor Batchelor. Nothing further. Any questions from Cabinet? Any questions from anyone else? Okay so the recommendation is set out at number three on page 107. Do members agree with proposal? Anyone wish to vote against? Anyone wish to abstain? Cabinet therefore agrees the proposal by affirmation and item 13 is the review of earmark reviews sorry reserves. Councillor John Williams will present this again and I think Councillor Bill Handley is seconding this. Councillor Williams. Thank you leader this is something we do every year it's to ensure that we don't have reserves earmark for projects that are no longer happening or have taken place and it's purely to identify where we are now in using our reserves and where we aim at those reserves for particular things in the future. Thank you very much Councillor Handley. I have nothing to add thank you leader. Okay any questions? Any questions from anyone else? No just going quickly isn't it? Okay so recommendations at three on a page 145. Do members agree with the proposals? Anyone wish to vote against the proposals? Anyone wish to abstain? Cabinet therefore agrees the proposals by affirmation and item 14 is the summary general fund revenue budget and I think scrutiny and overview had a look at this so to Councillor John Williams will present it it's being seconded by it was to be Councillor Peter Macdonald but I will I will do that if Councillor Peter Macdonald has been called out to a work call so I will second it and then I'll come to Councillor Stobart for the feedback from scrutiny and overview so Councillor Williams. Thank you leader can I refer people to the supplement to the agenda which has the most up-to-date figures and takes into account the decision on business rates which obviously has an impact on our financial situation. You'll see that from appendix A that we need to find 32.7 million from taxation and grants to offset our expenditure and we receive and if you look on the table in paragraph 23 you'll see that our core spending power which is the grants and council tax we receive make up about half of that so we rely on our investment income and business rates principally to make up the rest. You'll see that we've made a decision to recommend to full council that we increase council tax by just over 3 3.1% which is a 10p a week for a bandit property in order to help us make up that difference and this is against a background where we have the consumer price index at around 10 to 11% and we have wage inflation averaging around 6% so a 3% increase is actually a reduction in real terms. I appreciate that people are in economic hardship because of the state and finances of the country but we have to ensure that we provide core services to our residents and we are not immune from inflation unfortunately so that inflation is affecting us just as it's affecting families up and down the country and therefore we have decided to continue with our meeting term financial strategy which was to and still is to increase council tax by £5 a year and so we will be doing that next year. Incidentally even doing that you'll recall that when the mid-term financial strategy came to cabinet before Christmas we were looking at a deficit at the end of that five-year period of just over six million pounds so you know we we are not in the situation where we can not put up council tax because we still have that medium term deficit to to close but I hope people understand that a 10p a week increase for an average property average council taxpayer is very good value for money given the services that we provide and given the fact that we are increasing council tax by 3% while inflation is now running up between 10% and 11%. Thank you. Thank you Councillor, Councillor Williams. I'll come to our Councillor Stovart now to I guess I will second it but I'll come to Councillor Stovart first and then I'll second and speak. Thank you leader. So our scrutiny of the draft budget did actually last quite a long time but you'll see that the number of points we raised is relatively small is six or so but let me give you a flavour for what we talked about. When scrutiny and overview looks at stuff we are sometimes investigating the mine ETI the processes that lie behind and it gives us a chance to kind of investigate without necessarily questioning the result so one of the first things we looked at was section 106 processes. Scrutiny and overview has a bit of a thing about section 106 at the moment and so we dug a little into that but we got a really helpful answer from the director of joint director of planning and we were asking why section 106 budgets were falling but in fact the comment from Stephen Kelly was around the risk share with developers and how funds actually appeared in budgets so I think that was one of those opportunities where we could dig and we could find out it's a little bit more about the processes so I didn't want to sort of query that except use it as an illustration of where scrutiny and overview can dig and discover and it gives us a better basis I think for our continuing scrutiny in different context then just proceeding through some of the items we talked about we were interested in a greater encouraged model or certainly to be satisfied that self-build was being appropriately encouraged in new developments across the greater Cambridge area. We'd value clarity and we may be coming back to the point that Lidia you raised about the background to things so recharging sometimes appears in the budgets in terms of the Scrutiny and Overview Committee in a confusing way so that's a little more context and pointers on the part of officers in the way the documents presented would be a help it doesn't relieve us of the of the work of digging and understanding but some additional context might help. We were concerned about you know new things appearing in the budget well I personally I raised the the matter of voter ID and its implications and chief executive confirmed that this would be cost neutral to the council but we would like to keep an eye on this because it will absorb management time and we can't predict when that management time will be needed in relation to other things that the council is doing and we were back to a question that in fact we're all seeing all the I think almost without exception members of the committee are seeing in their in their own areas in their parishes which is the street lighting confusion where street lights are managed at different levels by different people the cost of providing electricity street lighting are very uncertain and so we raised that as a concern that would need to be addressed. We did during the course of the discussion comment on arts and culture policy and we would very much like to see moves towards an arts and culture policy for the council and we took the opportunity to review the conservative group budget proposal so we had a bit of a Q&A on that in relation to a freeze on council tax including you know the wider implications for service delivery and we we spoke briefly about fraud but the conclusion was in each case that we would note and support both the budget proposal and also the submission of the conservative group budget proposal to cabinet today. Thank you very much indeed councillor Svobart so I'm happy to second this and I'll respond to your your points so helpful comments about section 106 income and so that's that's good to note on freezing count freezing council tax so you know the the outcome of freezing council tax will mean a reduction in services and resources and probably human resources in all honesty so and also it just means that you're then playing playing catch up and you never you never do catch up so you know we have discussed it and you know what we're proposing here is is we believe based on good on good evidence if we want to maintain service levels to to our residents of a time of increasing need increasing reliance on local local authorities in relation to self-build so council land sales where self-build restrictions were in place resulted in lower sale prices and this project's therefore ended but the planning department does continue to maintain a database for self-build but you know it was as I say well we don't we don't have any land but where we have had land we've sold it for self-build actually we get we get less money for it and actually not at a time when we can afford to get less money for small amounts of land that we have um we note uh we note what scrutiny have said about um clarity over recharges um really complicated don't pretend I understand it but uh so I would probably benefit from that as well um on um arts and culture so you know as things stand at the moment we have neither the capacity in terms of man and woman hours and power or the money to pursue an arts and culture strategy it's a it's a nice to have and I certainly hope that uh before too long we're in a position to have that nice to have when I joined this council there was an arts officer here and considerable sums of money were doled out by the council to support to support the arts that that was prior to national lottery it might might have been actually obviously there are other other sources um where where there is money in section 106 that's identified up for arts and culture we shall make sure that that is retained for that um and given out to you know parish councils or whichever bodies can can actually deliver deliver at the coalface for it um but as things stand at the moment it's it's it's it's on the wish list for when we haven't got so many other burdens to deal with um on voter ID uh massive pushback from the LGA on this uh particularly for those councils who are meant to be implementing it this May so you know we are very fortunate not to have election this May because they the pressure of implementing all these new regulations by then is going to be considerable and in getting voter ID to all those people who don't have it and that that's down to the council I think Plymouth think they're going to have to provide voter ID for 8000 people and I think they you know they worked out if that takes 20 minutes per you know for an officer to do you know there simply are not enough hours between now and May to get all that voter voter ID out so you know it's another rushed it's another rushed knee jerk reaction but it's what we what we're lumbered with um and in relation to street lighting well actually you know we're supporting gambling game my village on this um so we provide signposting and assistance to parish councils on street lighting issues um you know particularly where you know the costs are are kind of out of control as they are for some we help we um help signpost them to possibly cheaper supplies such as through ESPO we help them challenge bills particularly where there are unmetered supplies or lightings and in their own inventories um and we do that via the meter administrator so as well as gambling game the council is currently supporting Lowellworth, then Drayton and Stokeham quite so if anyone's any of your parish councils are struggling then just come and up come and ask us because we're all we're already doing this okay thank you very much indeed so are there any questions council Williams I'm sorry just to add to to what you've said about um um the policy of arts and culture policy that doesn't mean that we don't give money to um organisations for example um from the community chest uh we have given money to cotton and brass band uh we've given money to Falmyr to put on a panto uh we've given money to um the great chrysal windmill and uh we've also given money to the histon and impetant archaeology group um and also the Melbourne amateur dramatic society so you know we do give money to arts and culture from the community chest um and um that's available up to grants are up to £2,000 um but that's you rightly say we don't actually have a policy at this moment and I'm sure we will we will do that as soon as we're able thank you very much for that that clarification yes yes of course so okay um any other questions council to what you would come back just very briefly um I didn't mention it was an oversight uh thanks to the officers for for the support for both the action plan and the draft budget process much appreciated um and uh for officers who stayed online for for several hours I have to say I think this joint scrutiny lasted three and a half hours it was a bit of a marathon session just on um the role of scrutiny to perhaps finish we touched on it just the moment to go in relation to the action plan but the possibility for scrutiny over you to in a sense suggest stuff not just investigate and and call things out but um to actually perhaps suggest new ideas ways of doing things I think it's something we haven't brought to the in a sense to the top of our agenda but I think as a as a committee we should reflect on that um to help innovate and suggest new ways of doing things um I think that's all I have to say the arts and culture comment um I do note and we'll we'll be thinking about that but we will continue to ask about arts and culture in the Greater Cambridge area thank you very much I'm good um before I respond to you I'll bring in councillor Milne's yeah just to reflect councillor Stovart's comment about taking having scrutiny and overview taking an active role in policy developments which is really the function of a pre-scrutiny model and that was certainly something that we were looking at doing and we've got triangulation meetings set up which will look exactly at that strategic and policy level development thank you thank you so just so to add to that so you know this is you know we are unusual in running pre you know pre-scrutiny and and that's absolutely about feeding into policy development um I wonder whether the scrutiny committee would like some some training specifically in how scrutiny and overview can influence policy development I wonder if that would that would help actually I think it might help cabinet as well for us to better understand how how scrutiny can start to contribute um more overtly into policy development from by by through pre-scrutiny would that be something you'd like us to look into yes indeed um is our hesitate to speak on behalf of the committee because we haven't had that discussion but we'll put on our agenda and I think the reaction will be a positive one that's that's lovely and perhaps we could ask officers to investigate what might what might be available from that as the officer public scrutiny what what sort of training might be available that we could access so that you're talking about something substantive when you do debate it okay that's lovely thank you very much indeed okay right um gosh in the meantime the computer goes blank righty ho so we are recommendations which are copious uh item three on page 157 and 158 so uh do uh do members agree with proposals anyone wish to vote against anyone wish to abstain cabinet therefore agrees with proposals by affirmation and item 15 sorry this is a very long meeting so but uh we're doing quite well now um uh capital programmes so John John Williams to propose and Councillor John Batchelor to second John Williams have I have I jumped again um no capital programme am I right yeah right strong coffee for John please right John Williams leader um given the lateness of this meeting I'll just move this and uh take any questions uh thanks Councillor yeah happy to second this um and we'll reserve comment should there be necessary thank you any questions no no questions we'll go straight to the recommendation uh on page 247 recommend that cabinet consider report and if satisfied to recommend to full council the revised general fund capital programme outlined out of appendix a so do members agree with proposal anyone wish to vote against anyone wish to abstain cabinet therefore agrees with proposals by affirmation item 16 housing revenue account revenue and capital budget 2023 24 uh it's council on John Williams again and council on John Batchelor again to second council Williams uh thank you leader um as you'll see that um one of the recommendations here is that we increase council house rents um by seven percent we're having to do this in order to maintain our house building programme we discussed earlier our council house building programme which I think we all agree is um fantastic at the moment building you know our target new target is 75 homes a year and we feel actually we've achieved you know over 80 homes a year uh recently um as has been mentioned by the um lead member for housing um we have uh right to buy sales still and that is accounting for a loss of around 20 to 30 homes but nevertheless we we're as a result you know we are achieving a net um growth of around 40 homes a year um you know which is really solely needed I mean we have a um I believe that we have a waiting list of over 2000 so you know it's extremely important that we maintain that delivery and we can only do that because of the way the house the the council housing is wing fenced um that we have to increase council rents to the maximum that we're being allowed to which is seven percent again though I must emphasise that taken in context we are looking at inflation at 11 percent so it's still less than inflation so it is a real cut um but nevertheless this is something that you know we don't really want to do but we we wane up you know do we not put rents up by so much or do we not build more council houses I think you know we've taken the right decision that we should be building council houses thank you councillor Williams uh councillor bachelor yes happy to second this and perhaps just add add a word on the rent question members should be aware that um the rent for the income actually pays for virtually everything within the housing sector um so underlying the main cost we we have is maintaining a loan of 205 million pounds which the government in its wisdom required us to pay in order to maintain um our housing stock uh that represents 25 percent of our income is actually used to support that payment new builds is 50 percent 15 percent of their income and 46 percent of repairs and maintenance actually keeping the stock in good order um as we will see overall we are actually planning on a deficit budget this year and next year is only coming back into surplus in year three so we don't have the flexibility to actually go any lower than the seven percent in order to maintain um value about our stock and properties so other than that I'm very happy to second the recommendations thank you thank you that's a really really helpful explanation thank you councillor Milnes yeah I just wanted to reflect and councillor bachelor will confirm that my understanding is right when we first took over administration we were actually forced to reduce council property rents which obviously centres backwards yes absolutely right the government required us to reduce the rents by one percent over a four year period um this undermined the whole principle of payback we you know when we took out the loan the um objective was to pay it down over 30 years the fact that uh so our rental level was set in order to achieve that yeah losing one percent plus inflation for four years has not that out entirely and now what we are doing is maintaining debt uh we will have to pay back in about 15 to 20 years time but the plan then would simply be to refinance so there is no plan at this stage to actually pay down the debt so again you know we've got to be in a position where we can protect ourselves because you never know what's going to happen if there's a sudden huge inflate more inflation and so on there are dangers in this quickly thank you that's really helpful any more questions no okay and of course inflation is particularly hitting construction and and maintenance industries more than more than others so okay so the recommendations are on page 257 and 258 number three there's lots of them so i won't read them out um so do members agree with proposal anyone wish to vote against anyone wish to abstain cabinet therefore agrees the proposals by affirmation and the last item is local council tax support so that's council john williams proposed and perhaps a dry mill and seconding including council williams thank you leader um i hope this is contentious um back last autumn we were offered um number of options to where the localised caps tax scheme was reviewed and we were offered a number of options um and how to just take this forward um to ensure that uh those that um needed to be benefited benefited by this um could and um we decided on one option to go out to consultation as a result of that consultation we are now recommending uh to uh you and to recommend to full council that we go ahead with um the option which um increases the support um provided to residents including those who are on low incomes any work um so that we actually reach more people and um i hope that you agree with me that this is a certainly a good thing that we should be doing at this moment in time with the cost of living crisis thank you councillor mills it's just a real force the uh the timing of this uh is purely um very suitable for the cost of living crisis so i'm very happy to support this thank you thank you very much are there any questions nope okay so this is a recommendation to uh to council uh and option one is the uh the preferred option so we uh write it uh so the recommendation is on page 297 um so do members agree with the proposal anyone wish to vote against anyone wish to abstain cabinet therefore agrees the proposals by affirmation so thank you very much everybody thank you um council stobar council williams councillor ellington and officers for uh sorry there's quite a long unusually long meeting but we have a lot to get through um we bring this meeting to close members of the public are watching the website this means the video stream will now end thank you very much for joining us to uh to view today's cabinet meeting i know the next meeting cabinet scheduled to take place on monday the 20th of march