 Okay. Thank you. The recording has begun. All right. Great. So welcome everyone to the February 27th, 2023 design review board meeting. My name is Erica Zekos and I'm the chair of the Amherst Design Review Board, calling this meeting to order at five or three PM. The meeting is being recorded and will be made available via the town of Amherst YouTube channel. The meeting is being recorded and will be made available at five or three PM. The minutes are being taken. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and extended by chapter 22 of the acts of 2022 and extended again by the state legislature on July 16th, 2022. This design review board meeting will be conducted via remote means using the zoom platform. The zoom meeting link is available on the meeting agenda posted on the Zoom page and click on the most recent agenda, which lists the zoom link at the top of the page. No in-person attendance of the public is permitted. However, every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the meeting in real time via the logical means. In the event that we were unable to do so for reasons of economic hardship or despite best efforts, we will post an audio or video recording transcript or other comprehensive record of the proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the town of Amherst website. Board members, I will take a roll call. When I call your name, unmute yourself, answer affirmatively, and please return to mute. And if I could ask that Catherine be let in. Tom Long. Present. Rebecca Luckwood. Present. Lindsay Schnarr. Present. Erica Zika is here and Catherine Porter. I'm here. Can you hear me? We can hear you Catherine. I can't see me. I can't see me. I can't check in. I have no video. Okay. Well, we'll handle that on this slide. We've got you for now. I'm going to put you on mute. Okay. Erica, you're on mute. You're on mute. You're on mute. You're on mute. You're on mute. You're on mute. You're on mute. You put yourself on mute. I did. All right. If technological issues arise, we may need to pause temporarily and fix the problem. And then continue the meeting. If the discussion needs to pause, it will be noted in the minutes. Please use the raise hand feature. To ask a question or make a comment. I will see your request and call on you to speak after speaking. Remember to remute yourself. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to ask. I'm going to start by writing items that are not on tonight's agenda. Please be aware that the board will not respond to comments during the general comment period. Public comment should also be heard at other, could also be heard at other times during the meeting when determined appropriate. Please indicate if you wish to make a comment by clicking the raise hand button when the public comment is solicited. If you've joined the zoom meeting using a telephone, please indicate that you wish to make comments by pressing star nine on the board. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to ask. Please identify yourself by stating your full name and address and put yourself back into mute when you're finished speaking. Residents can express their views for up to three minutes or the discretion of the board chair. If a speaker does not comply with these guidelines or exceeds there a lot of time, their participation will be discontinued from the meeting. On tonight's agenda. We have the following. We have the following. We have the following. We have Adam Nix. We'll be here. FY 23. I'm 15. Ray Berry for white lion brewing company and FY 23. 16. The spoke live. We will then move on to approval of meeting minutes. Then general public comment period and then other business, which will include a conversation about scheduling. The meeting items. So let's begin with item 14. Adam Nix up from Sinerama should be in the audience tonight. I have just allowed Adam to speak. Great. Adam, welcome. If you could. Introduce yourself. And I am happy to screen share. If you would like that. You can share your screen. All right, not a problem. I'm Adam from Sinerama here in Springfield, Massachusetts. On behalf of Amherst market, of which we're looking to just simply. Reface the existing light boxes that there are on the building, two of them. Of which will be identical and of which I don't know if you have or have seen the. Layout of both itself, which is. Like I said, the same there and just looking for your feedback and ultimately approval on that of the existing signage. Or an Andrew review and approval of such signage there. And if any certainly comment feedback in turn, otherwise certainly welcome. Great. Thanks, Adam. I just want to confirm that everyone can see my screen. I'm sharing. Amherst markets proposed signage. Can I. Somebody give me a thumbs up on that. Great. Okay. So we're talking about two signs, one on the front of the building, one on the side on the side and signs themselves are identical and you're just replacing. What's there. Correct. The other signage that's there is currently quite. Delapidated compared to that picture that you have there. Compared to the street view, that's what's there. But otherwise, if you see the actual, it's a. Quite dilapidated compared to that. So this is going to be a clean refresh and comparison to what's there. Okay. So board members, any. Comments, I'm happy to hear them. If you want to unmute or put your hand up. Catherine. Catherine, you want to unmute so we can hear you. All right. Okay. Well, I. Yeah, I think they're fine. And I do. You're saying there is not a sign on the side of the building now is that. But you're putting one on the side. No, it, they both currently exist where they are. All right. Yeah. Okay. I have no problem personally with them. What more I had a problem with with so much stickers on signs on the windows, but that's Chris's. Problem, not mine. Yeah, I'm no problem. All right. Thanks Catherine. And I see Tom, you have your hand up. Thank you. Yeah, I know I, I don't have any particular comments. I would. The graphic designer me wants to see a little bit more white space around the edge here. I feel like your. Your Coca Cola sign and your Amherst text is a little tight on that edge, just from an aesthetic perspective, I would not approve it because of that, but I would encourage you to throw some extra white space around there and make the graphic designers of the world a little bit happier. Thank you. No problem doing so. And Lindsay or Becky, any thoughts to share? Becky's shaking her head. Oh, it looks great. It looks better than it did. It's nice and clean. And Lindsay. Yeah, I would agree. Great. I likewise am an approval, although I appreciate Tom's comment. Tom, do you want to incorporate that request for a little bit additional white space? I would like to incorporate that as a recommendation, but not a requirement. And I would second that motion with the recommendation included. We have any further discussion? We can move this one right along. I move that we accept the signs. As presented tonight. Tom, do you want to incorporate that request for a little bit additional white space? I would second that motion with the recommendation included. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Third. Great. Any discussion now. Okay. All those in favor of approving the sign with our recommendation for some additional white space. Please raise your hands. Oh, Catherine, we can't see you. Say hi. I'm sorry. I raised my hand. I suck a little yellow hand up there. Got it. Okay. Thanks. Okay. So approved unanimously. Thank you, Mr. Nixon for coming. Thank you very much. And may I ask who seconded the. The motion. Tom did. Tom seconded. Thanks. All right. So the next item for discussion is white lion brewing. Perhaps Mr. Barry is here. Or somebody else from white lion in the audience. Ray Barry is here. Great. Okay. I had to allow them to speak and I couldn't do that in the last screen. So I think they both have. Ray and Harry Auerbach. Are both here and they're both from white lion. And they're both now speak. Okay. Fantastic. Hi. Welcome. I'm Erica Zika chair of the board. And I am happy to screen share on your behalf or you can share your materials, which would you prefer? Ray. This is Harry with agnolly sign. And I think screen sharing, if I may suggest might be beneficial to all of us. I would agree. Thank you, Harry. Thank you. Thank you. Of course, Ray. So I just want to thank everyone on the committee for allowing us an opportunity to share. What we're looking to accomplish at 24 North pleasant. White lion is an existing. Brewery in downtown Springfield. And we're looking to reactivate. Space that was formerly known as my horse. And we've been able to partner with Harry and agnolly sign to present to you today. What we believe is a great. Optic for downtown and the general consumer. Foot and vehicle traffic. White lion was built on its branding. And so we're very excited to share what we have today. I will defer a lot of the Q and a and the presentation. Of the existing application to Harry. Thank you, Ray. Appreciate the introduction. And if I may request, there's actually, I'd like to start with the. Sign on the first floor. I don't. There we go. Okay. So this is a sign. That. As you can see is spanning the, the entrance, if you will, there is a metal. Facade that it will be applied to. This is a illuminated sign. That, you know, black cabinet, black background. The white lion. Text, if you will, is in blue and their signature. Lions. Tell in white. So this is an illuminated cabinet. That is. Will greet. The people entering through the entrance way. And you can see behind this cabinet is on the second surface. Thank you. Yes. On the second surface of the windows is a. Graphics vinyl graphics on the one of themselves. So this is the primary entrance into white lion brewery. In the past, it was actually to the right, if you will. And I will certainly entertain questions at this time. And if not, we can. Move on to the next. To the upper level. And we see the comprehensive package. And then we can. Certainly. Certainly. So what we're proposing on the second level is. It's actually a banner that is on springs and the springs are covered with a molding, if you will, an aluminum molding. So that hides the springs and it is more aesthetically. You know, pleasing, if you will. It's just not these springs that are out there. And we use that we've actually used this in two Cooley Dickinson applications. One at 30 local street in Northampton. And one in Waitley or West West Hatfield. I'm sorry. And because they're stretched. These banners last for a much longer period of time. And then again, it. We're looking. We were proposing and Ray has. Yeah, there you go. Thank you. No worries. And if you scroll down to the next page. Yeah. You can see how it. It is, it is held in place and then obviously for aesthetic reasons, we cover them. So these banners are typically lasts for a longer period of time. Cause they're nicely stretched and that, you know, against the wall and so on or hitting the wall. So we're proposing. Yeah. Yeah. We're proposing and Ray has, yeah, there you go. Thank you. No worries. And if you scroll down to the next picture, you can. You can see how it. It is held in place and then obviously for aesthetic reasons, we cover them. We're proposing. That just as another way to. Gain attention to white line. Thank you. There we go. White lion. And, you know, should Ray want to. In the future change the message, if you will. It allows flexibility. Obviously we'd have to go before the, we know we have to go before the DRB, but it allows some, some flexibility and at a very. Inexpensive. Inexpensive way of changing it out. So, you know, that those are the two signs that we're requesting review by the DRB today. Okay. Thank you. Of course. So let's open for discussion. You want to kick us off. Do you have any thoughts? I do. I see other people's hands raised, but I'm happy to jump in. So if we go to the first entrance view. See if I can remember the order of operations here. Nope. Oh, hang on. Somehow I opened that in its own window. Bear with me. There we go. So I think this is very lovely and appealing visually. Okay. Is the, is the glass. Frosted or is there a laminate that covers the entire glass area? Or is it just transparent? Then there's the white of the lion face and lettering. Ray, I don't know if you want to chime in, but it is, it is right now proposed to be frosted. If you will. It's a print that would cover. A little, you know, Soffit sign of the Soffit glass, if you will, above the, the actual lion and the door. And the, the right window. And, you know, being that the door pulls out, you know, it's, it's not like you would be going in and hitting somebody. So you people will enter by pulling the door open. So they, you know, in terms of access or any issues about hitting people that, that won't be an issue. So from the outside. From the inside looking out, is it, is it possible to see through enough to be able to see people coming in? No. I mean, it would depend on, on the, the, the type of vinyl being used, but it's, it's what we call a dusted vinyl. So it. The, it's more opaque than what we would call a see through. See who has a preparation that allows light in and out. But they're in this particular format. It is. It is a frosted opaque. Type of vinyl applied to the interior window. Interior side of the window. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. To add, to add to that. Harry TSM design, which is one of our. Design companies has mentioned a alternate. Optic where it would afford. The customer consumer visitor from the inside. The ability to look out into the streetscape. And be able to see exactly what may be transpiring on the porch or deck area. So that's what we're talking about. So that's what we're talking about. And the Harry's point, the, what was all for today. Is the alternative to that. So there is. Some bandwidth and play in how that presentation. Would. Finally settle. And we would obviously take into account. Any and all recommendations that you have on your end to make it conform with. Your comfort level. I think that would be great. I think that would be great. I think that would be great. I think that would be great. I think that would be great. I think that would share concerns of others that for somebody who's leaving the building. Not being able to see if someone else is trying to come in is, is probably some kind of hazard. So I do think having. Transparency on. Ideally on both sides of that door would be. Beneficial and in terms of safety. But otherwise I think it, you know, I think it looks really nice. I think it's just a question of transparency. And I would, I would encourage you to. Lean towards something that's more transparent and more translucent. So that. So that people can see through that door. So that that's my comment on this one. And then I do have comments on the other. Anybody else have comments on, on this particular installation. While we're here. Tom. Yeah, thanks. I do. My comment, I guess is. Similar. I'm actually not so. I mean, I guess I'm just as concerned safety wise. I don't, I can imagine in my head, a dozen restaurants. And stores that have opaque doors. And people don't often get injured from that. So I think it's just, you know, whether or not this is open to a patio and something where people are constantly going in and out that might lead. You know, even your employees carrying. I don't know if this is food is going to be served out here or drinks, but people going in and out might want some transparency for more like a functional. Capacity of carrying a tray of glasses and not getting knocked over or things like that. So that's, that's management on your side. So I'd be considering that. What I do love about this version is that. If you illuminate this from the inside at night, you know, even 5pm in the, in the winter. It's going to look gorgeous. Kind of eliminated from the street. So, so I like this as a concept. And I think, you know, If you had the option to go for the, you know, transparent. Once I had a transparent vinyl. It would be something to consider from a functional perspective. That's my only comment on this one. Thank you. Thank you. Becky. I'm fine with that. My comments were on the upper side. Oh, okay. If we wait till we get going around to you first there. Catherine, any comments on that? On this particular installation. Yes. I, I really like it. And I think it's going to give a new personality to that. Location. Which is. Very dark. And really quite uninviting. I think this is going to give a nice. A nice face to. To the company. I sort of have this question too about having a door that you can't see through. Even when you're coming in, maybe it's just me, but. You know, I sort of like to know what's ahead of me. And. You don't obviously know until you get in there, whether it's crowded, who's there. You know, which may or not, may or may not be a huge issue, but I think it's fair to at least think through whether you want to make this opaque or translucent or clear. I wouldn't vote against it. No matter, you know, what your decision was on that. I definitely think it's going to. I don't think it's going to be a big issue. Any previous business there. So that would be my comment. Thanks, Catherine. I'm going to concur with my colleagues about the. Translucency of the vinyl. I think that that would be a great addition for all the reasons that they said, and I just have a question about the lighting of the white line brewing company sign. It's an illuminated. It's a very good question. I think it's a good question. Only forward say through the letters or down. What's the. Erica, very good question. And it is. It's essentially a box and inside the box or LEDs that face in the direction of the letter. So it's, it's a one way. Backlit. If you like light comes from the back and shines out the front. So it will not cast any, any light backwards. It's solid. And there is, there's a. It's not visible. There is this metal tubing that. Will hold the sign. So it. And because it, there is this tubing, it can only shine forward. It should, and it should only shine forward. Okay. Great. All right, let me see if I can manage to get to the other screen. No, that's the overall square footage one. You got to go here. There you go. Okay. Okay. Super. So, let's see, Becky, you had your, you had a wish to comment on this one. Okay. I think that the overall sign design is extremely attractive. But I, I feel like it should be a similar size as the Drake. It, it takes away from the Drake sign. So I would, I would suggest considering reducing the size of it. Thank you. Tom, is your hand still up to talk about this one? Yeah, I think Lindsay had a comment on this as well. I don't know if I'm going to get in line with her, but my comments are the same in terms of scale. And I think that there are ways to probably tackle that. You know, scaling the whole thing down. I think it would still be legible from this distance. So I would just like to see it more in proportion with the, with the Drake sign, really from a building aesthetic perspective. I actually really love the sign. I love your graphics. But I think that would be something that I'd like to change. I think the other comment I have is really about the green on the light green and at that distance and at that scale. I have a question about legibility. Maybe that's an opportunity to go to white there or some other, some other variation of color, but that contrast seems really challenging even on my, my high res Mac laptop screen at, I don't know, three feet. So I can imagine that at that scale, you know, certain kind of light that would be a real challenge to see, especially for people who have issues with their eyes and contrast in terms of legibility. So making sure that there's some accessibility issues that might be dealt with with that. So I'd explore some color variations if I were you, but I'd really like the graphics overall. And I think it's a great package, but I would like to see that smaller as a whole. And I think you're going to lose some, I think the test kitchen is going to get too small to see at a distance. So that might be something you want to see somewhere else on the facade of the building rather than way of high, but that's just my thoughts on that. Again, I'm open to discussion with others about how to deal with that. Lindsay. Yeah, I think those are my two main comments as well. So the scale, I think that it can be a different proportion from the Drake, but it should be in proportion. So I think maybe choosing the same height, you know, so there's like a common datum of bottom and top of the sign, but it could be wider than the Drake, which it looks like it, it would be if you shrunk it down to the same vertical dimensions. I also think that the sign looks great except for the, and test kitchen part, which feels very disconnected from the graphics of the white line brewing company. Graphics and it, it's both a scale and color and positioning. So I would, I would agree with Tom that. If I were to approach this, I would probably go with just a white font on the black. And I think it's fine to have it be smaller, but it does feel a little odd to have the font be kind of the uppercase lowercase lettering come with con in contrast to the white line brewing company font. I honestly question if you needed it all, I think that it would be stronger without it, but if you really feel like you need to have that there, or branding or information. I do think trying to make it as cohesive as possible with the white line brewing company and signage and centering it, making it as, as easy to read as possible would be a recommendation, a strong recommendation. Otherwise, I think it looks great. Thank you for those. Chris, I saw that your hand was up a moment ago. Did you want to. Yeah, I would just like Harry to explain the dimensions. I took a look at them, but it was late this afternoon and I was kind of tired. So I didn't really understand exactly what the dimensions mean. And I think what he needs to do is show you that. I think that's a good point. I think that all of this signage is going to be. 10% or less of the facade. Overall building facade. That was a question that, that I had. But we do have, we have the, we have the dimensions here that people look at. So. If I could put a pin in that just for a moment and ask Catherine, if she has any comments about this sign, and then we can address the overall square. Yeah. And I think that's a good point, but I, I just want to give a comment with everything that everybody has said in that test kitchen. I mean, if you do. Shrink the size of the sign as we see it here. Maybe it's been mentioned that. Even if you put it in white letters, it may not stand out enough to anybody can pick it up from the street. But I definitely feel we have to go. It has to be in proportion to the sign, test kitchen issue definitely should be I think a white if if you decide to keep it at all. Those are my comments. Great thank you. All right Harry we've you were kind enough to share with us we have dimensions on this sign which I think if we do the math turns out to about 51 and a half square feet but we're suggesting that it becomes smaller. Yes first of all I want to thank you all for your comments a lot of sense especially when it comes to test kitchen and make it more visible and I would leave it up to Ray and TSM to decide colors and positioning and you know this overall scale to the sign itself I think these are very valuable comments and certainly I understand it. So in terms of square footage yes this is well there's a frame that is around the entire banner that is five inches on all sides. If you did the square footage we did not include the frame and I'm just double checking as we speak here actually I did include it the frame is included but so that's 46 square feet and where I need the DRB's assistance is in terms of what is allowed was you know it's 10 percent but it is that 10 percent of the entire facade second floor first floor or we need direction on how to approach that for the signs. It's a great question it does say of the building but you're adding to signage that's already there. Right that is correct and I mean I know the square footage is going to go down and I believe it was I think it was Catherine or might have been Lindsay understanding that when we reduce it the if the height is equal to the drake because of the way the layout the width is certainly going to be bigger it's going to be wider. Yeah and then we also need to take into consideration the negative space around the the graphics which is taken up by the the molding that covers the springs and I would ask respectfully if the board would consider you know allowing really what is visible the white lion to be considered in place of the white lion and the molding because that molding adds again 10 inches left right top bottom so that's a lot of square footage and again I will defer to Ray in terms of test kitchen because if that stays it certainly takes up space if it doesn't we we find some more space or but that's Ray and TSM I defer to him. Well I think that Byles suggests that any fixed hardware that's part of the surface of the sign is part of your square footage so I would argue that the kind of full extents of the dimensions should count right now that would mean 94 inches by 79 yep I mean a little smaller yep and then I'm wondering what the board thinks about kind of not counting the upper portion of the drake and just looking at these kind of three volumes one that the the shared upper surface of the building and then the whole the extents of this lower floor which will be kind of white lion's domain is the square footage and then limiting to 10 percent I think would get us to only 81 square feet total which is not enough. Actually Erika first of all great I did the same counting and I got 81 as well and I'll take it we'll take it we know the wall sign is going to shrink what it shrinks to is is I don't know right now but looking at the drake as an example there the the wall sign was roughly 23 square feet so you know let's say we're I'm just throwing it out there 35 square you're right you don't make it it's the the the soffit and the wall would yeah I'm sorry I'm flipping around I keep losing that one this gram floor piece here yep so the white lion brewing company the the illuminated box sign is as we can see is 21 square feet the graphics behind it on the door is roughly 60 square feet if you you know include all the glass all the glass let's just put it that way and then and then the wall sign we know is going to come down I would guess at least by 15 square feet if not more you know if the far wall if the drake is 23 square feet just for the sake of discussion and then and the white lion becomes 35 square feet um we're still over unless we have a way of creatively thinking about that vinyl yes that was going to be my comment I sorry to interrupt Harry and Ray like if if you did go with like a more cut vinyl version right um you could imagine that filling out the left four square or four um I guess blocks right which would save you a lot of square footage on the right because the leftover glass on the right would not count and you could scale that down a bit and might not have to fill that whole thing you might get the nose in there in the door but the negative space would not be you know frosted the negative space would not be signage right so if you were smart in how you calculated a cut vinyl it would not pick up as much square footage that way and you could still get this nice um you know effect you'd also have some of the transparency I think that people were talking about here so anyway it might be something to consider um going with a either the the the white being just printed on a clear vinyl so you can get that fade in there or if you do like a straight up cut vinyl but if you can get that to to transparency I don't think it would necessarily count as signage right it would just be transparent glass so you fuzz with your math that way um and still get the effect if you were creative with how you treat that so Tom if I may and Ray please jump in if uh going in which what your if we do cut vinyl wherever there is white that becomes cut vinyl and there's no no translucent or opaque behind it um do our use is that left window is it still scaled out you know height times times width and even though it's not completely filled or am I basically adding up what is the white on the on the on the glass I mean how did how was that viewed by the board I think um I can't really draw on a pdf but the we would kind of take the extents of that text yep consider that the square footage not the square footage of the white itself but if you boxed it out yes okay it makes the math a little easier but um yep yeah it's definitely would be okay who did that that's great nice job was that right no that was Tom I think that's the graphic artists right there that's awesome nice nice job so I see what you're doing Tom that if we box out the image wherever it might fall we could we you know that's 60 square feet we could cut that down significantly oh Tom's muted all right I'm muted sorry uh yeah that would have to be transparent in order for it to I think not count as signage correct yeah that's my understanding Tom well put absolutely and and Ray you would work with TSM and oh I know and actually actually I think it improves it it definitely improves the optic and it and it speaks to some of the concerns that the that the board has so I love the the ability to have the vector peeking out to the cityscape and then have uh your regular um non frosted glass looking back into the seating space of the tapper memory great um I would love to hear from some other members of the board on this does anybody want to share a thought Lindsey using um now that we're talking about this I hadn't realized that the nose of the lion was cut off and I do feel like if there's a way to scale it just enough that you can see that kind of front profile I think that would be a great um change and yeah I I think you know it sounds like we're kind of narrowing in on on what makes sense but I I feel I feel great about you know the direction this is headed um and I I do feel like the going back to the other side um if if it's possible to hold that kind of top and bottom edge even with the the surround the frame um as close to the drakes as possible or even just aligning the top or the bottom I mean I think having some kind of relationship there vertically would be really strong um and help the cohesiveness of that whole um that whole building uh facade and so yeah if if if eliminating that test kitchen allows you to kind of shrink it kind of like pull the frame in a bit then you could really kind of expand the whole thing um to fit that kind of top and bottom edge with respect to the drake uh sign so I think you have some some options to work with there and I think having it be wider like you clearly have a space I don't have I'd be curious to hear other people's thoughts I don't think that there's any um I think just having that kind of relationship vertically would would give the effect that's needed and I think having it be wider wouldn't wouldn't be a problem to my eyes Catherine yeah I agree with just what Lindsay said I think we should really strongly endorse keeping the proportion for the sign both the top and bottom and it seems like that's something that can be modified quite easily because that to me proportion is really important that's all I want to say but I agree thank you Becky any thoughts you're good no I think that the suggestions are are perfect I I really like the idea of changing the the lion graphics on the on the windows and doors a little bit it's beautiful and I think it might even end up showing up better um if it's framed a little bit with the glass and I completely agree about the upper sign um yeah no other yeah I'm gonna do my best to summarize where we've landed um and Ray and Harry if what I say uh and also members if what I say doesn't jive with what you're thinking let me know um so our first and most striking comment is that the top and bottom of the building sign as we'll call the one that's on the screen now should align with the top and the bottom of the drake sign we're not as concerned about the width but we want that top and bottom to be in alignment um there also was commentary about the readability of and test kitchen um one simple comment would be to test some color ways that allow for more contrast um other members of the board were suggesting that you may not need it at all but we'll leave that up to you um but I do I I do think that for um readability purposes for accessibility purposes that we want that to be visible um and then looking at the door sign we have no comments at all about the the um banner box looks great um but we do have thoughts about the um the glass signs um what is that if you simply focus on the figure of the lion and and do that in a um printed vinyl um and then the text on the glass being mindful of your overall square footage um and maybe shrinking or shifting the lion a little bit so that we see the nose um that that would be uh our set of suggestions did I capture that for everyone perfect perfect perfect yeah very well done thank you yes and um it's a beautiful package and we're really excited that you're coming to town so um this is going to be uh this is going to be great and does somebody want to make a motion to that effect um that we approve with recommendations I so move that we approve with recommendations thank you and a second Tom um resident second direction um is there any discussion at this point um I just I just have a comment I love the way the look that the lion is giving you it just it cracks me up it's great um it's just it's adventurous it's wonderful thank you okay it's really nice all right well and on that uh I think Catherine's hand is from uh kind of yeah let me take it down I lowered my digital hand all right so now we're voting um all those in favor of approving with uh recommendations is noted please say I or Catherine hi hi great we got everyone thank you thank you very much Harry and Ray thank you thank you thank you so much we appreciate you look forward to working with everyone yeah and again to to the DRB thank you very much these comments were extremely helpful and if I in terms of procedural question once these changes are made uh the next step would be to forward to um Chris and to Jennifer to for final distribution or just you know how does that how does that process work today I don't think that the DRB sees things a second time do they excellent unless the changes are substantial I think if you're minding what because the building commissioner has to approve in the next understand okay thank you very much have a nice good luck good luck all right take care okay now I understand that the folks from the spoke weren't able to come until six o'clock they are here they are here though okay great well we'll stick with the original agenda then how's everybody doing great I don't know why you can't see me I don't know what's going on with your hand is up again so yeah why can't you see me what where am I why am I not part of this group I have no I know I feel all right I just love Tom that your books are arranged in rainbow sequence that makes me really happy look at that one it's just beauty it's a work of art and I really love it great that's got more that's very exciting um okay so Chad are you here to represent the spoke tonight I am can you guys hear me we can hear you can't see you but we can hear you would you like me to do the screen share or would you like to share your own screen with materials I would love for you to do the screen share and I apologize to you guys I appreciate you accommodating me I just stepped off the baseball diamond and I'm about to go on to a basketball court the life of a coach here and so I'm a little bit unprepared of my documents but I know you guys do have them there so I hope that helps us all okay we've got we've got you covered um all right so this is your application and if you want to just give us a summary of what you're up to and I will share the the pages here um as makes sense sure so I think all of you were on the last design review board meeting with the building there that you see approving the sign on the side and so if you guys are familiar with that part of the building I'm not sure if all of you were a part of the original design review board when we first moved into the Amherst copy space but what we created there was a the pub version of the spoke is the other half of the building the the original space and the former Amherst sub and pizza space is what we call our pub side and then our other side our new side is what we've we've always called live and that's our nightclub side and so our intention with this new move to the back building was to take what has been greatly successful in that smaller space and move it into a a larger space one that's just more manageable for us um and as you guys all know in this town with the the population the student population here in the the vast majority of them um it it was a move it was a move that allowed us to take that idea and be able to go to a larger space recreate it uh and again make something very much more manageable because we have a clean space over there so we got to begin to start over from the beginning and so um from a from the design review board perspective of things uh we're not going to make a whole heck of a lot of changes to the building um we don't need a lot of signage again this is sort of a a sister space to the to the front building which is our main bar um and this is a space that will only be open three nights a week Thursdays Fridays and Saturdays uh I wish it was attached to our current building but it's not but it's conveniently next door uh so we are gonna we are gonna utilize the space that we have over there and and um and hopefully have approval on on this nightclub over there great um this is everybody familiar with where we're where this is the new building yeah okay um and so your would you mind summarizing for us what your the changes to the exterior yeah so we're going to replicate um everything that's in the the front building there that is relevant to the nightclub aspect live we're going to replicate all that to the back building so again if you take the back building for what it is right now and um that one there we're not it's it's brick it's a brick facade it's a normal uh roof line we're not going to make any changes on any of that we're gonna leave the brick um we're gonna the the roof will be replaced with a new roof uh we just an architectural shingle roof we're not doing anything uh any different changes on the roof line on that um on that dormer on the front right there that you can see in this picture that is where the signage will go uh for the front of the building the only sign on the entire part of the front of that building will be on that dormer there and then we will have a uh on the side of the building we will have another sign and I believe it's in this packet that shows the signs on there regular normal size um yeah that sign that's there it's we try to keep it very clean um I mean we've been the the the spoke has been there since 1984 um we took it over 2017 we've rebranded it um it is it is caught fire it is definitely a a very well branded um logo so we don't feel as though we have to do a whole heck of a lot of stuff in the new building I don't want to put neon signs in any of the windows I don't want to illuminate anything we don't need to do that um I think for us it's keeping it very simple by using it as a in conjunction with the space that we already have and keeping it kind of clean and and what you see in that upper picture there is what we want to replicate replicate in the back where it would be the windows would be tinted the sign would be black and white the two signs um and and that's pretty much from the front perspective that's pretty much it the doors would be replaced with what's there of normal gray or white steel doors um you know again nothing in dramatic changes in the front aspect of it the additions would be two sheds in the backside which I have pictured in there now those are what we have currently at the the spoke front building you can see the the dumpsters there the frame of the dumpsters of the the fence that goes around them all that would be replicated in the in the building in the backside as well okay and the location you said that the the spoke live sign is going to go here in the triangle yeah I thought it was maybe we sent it after I apologize if it's not here one of the one of the stamp drawings I sent from the architect did have the sign in john there and maybe you guys just don't have that one page five five thank you Tom there it is yeah so just like that um you know again I don't I don't personally feel we need to do anything overkill on this building I don't want any neons I don't want any signage we're not going to have any beer companies out there nothing like that very simple very clean uh it is a sister building to the existing one that we have right now we don't really feel obligated to have to brand it or have anyone discover it everybody's going to know where it is and so for us it's kind of keeping it very clean and as you can see the doors right there the three doors in the front will be your normal double steel commercial grade doors the windows in the front will have tint on them part of the reason for the tint on there is one of the one of the things we're doing a very good job about is sound mitigation and part of that sound mitigation is going to be we're going to replace all those windows with half-inch thick laminated glass windows and an additional a tint vinyl covering on the front of it those in conjunction will take down the decibel ratings that we are required to have for sound control outside of the building so that's part of why we're we're doing that okay thank you for for that presentation and we'll start with Catherine this time okay let me just see here uh yeah so essentially you've got two little lives you got your you got your original live and you got this live and I know the other one's going to go away Catherine so I didn't interrupt you but just so you know that that's going to we want to take that out of that building and we want to make the oh i thought the scope of itself bigger oh okay i misinterpreted that so okay i didn't that's my fault i didn't i didn't make that clear enough so our intention our intention our future intention is to take the the existing front building that you guys know is the yeah yeah all that via tavern all right bigger tavern sure um it makes the nightclub aspect in the backside right gives us two different feels two different offerings right here to manage okay all right yeah that's my question not that it would take people very long to figure out if there were two or one yeah that's it okay thank you Catherine um can see Tom's hand is up as well Tom um did I have my hand up sure um I guess I left it there I know I don't have any comments I'm just curious I don't I don't see any paints backs on here but I'm guessing you're just going to be going with white frames around everything the doors and all that sort of continuously you know as it is and then getting rid of whatever's there on the facade the side facade has awnings and things I'm guessing those are going away based on what I'm seeing in the drawing so but as I mentioned last time I like the graphics I think they're simple and clean they're modern they're understated intentionally and I'm very happy about that and so I really know other comments other than to just clarify that the paint is going to stay white along these frames and the doors and the awnings and such will be going away you're exactly correct Tom so the um the very minimal trim that holds the windows in place is white wood and it will remain that way there is white as well um as you can see on the bottom left corner of that picture there's an awning that overhangs the um that overhangs the walkway there the entire front of that building uh it is an overhang and that has white wood under it as well um I will be painting it white the same color that's there we're matching it's Jones owns Jones property zones the building so you know in conjunction with Wendy we will do things that are that are cohesive with their other existing building so with the brick facade we're not touching any of that that will not change the roof will not even though we are going to replace it with a new architectural tile uh roof it'll it'll match their building so we're doing everything to work with Jones properties as well to make sure it's remaining Jones already you know as you guys probably know the building has been sitting empty for a few years now and so Jones has already done like all the awning that sticks out underneath it's all can led lighting um the corners have nice led downward lighting bulbs on them the the perimeter of the building already is done for for lighting so I don't have to make any lighting changes it's all downward lighting it's all illuminated nicely and they did that of course for their own protection and their liability of their building while it had sat empty for a couple years so I don't have to make any lighting changes I don't you know that's the nice thing with this billy I don't have to make a whole heck of a lot of exterior changes crazy yeah I agree that the the signage looks great it's really clean I like that it fits you know over that door in a way that that works with the existing openings my only real question is on the doors and I think I don't know if you said it but it reads that you are planning to not have any glass on the doors and I'm curious about that decision sound mitigation you're correct they are going to be steel solid core doors we need to do that because the the point of penetration of sound is doors and windows in that building only so that building is brick sided cinder block and then we're going to have wall framing inside so that creates a 16 inch thick wall and so that right there is considered soundproof so our only points of contact of sound mitigation are windows and doors and the window aspect of it is a little easier to solve just because they're fixed points and they don't open and close but they're not but glass is in glass has more sound penetration than a solid core and that's why during our sound analysis we've decided to go with solid doors for that purpose the the window tints I know in the white line discussion you guys had one of the questions was can you see out of them the window tints absolutely you can every window has it's it's darker on one side and later on the inside so when you're on the inside of the building you can completely see outside just as it would be normal in an automobile and it's just darker from the outside looking in but at the points of the doors they are solid for that purpose that that's the only way that we can make sound mitigation without making them thicker or adding you know if we if we added I suppose vinyl to it we we could get to that point but a solid core commercial grade door without windows already meets the decibel requirements that we need to to meet at the the mark we have to be at 70 decibels or less at the at the perimeter of the of the of the line and from the front of that building to our our perimeter is like 12 feet so it's we really got to do our best job to make sure that we're actually trying to do a trying to get a decibel reduction down to 60 decibels right at the face of the exterior of that building and the windows and doors are the parts that make that possible so that's that's understandable and we appreciate you doing that I guess just from an aesthetic standpoint you know are these doors going to be white yeah they so commercial grade doors generally come in white or gray white is my is my my choice currently there are two solid doors there the one in the middle and the one to the right which used to be old town tavern those do have solid core doors in place the one that was the laundromat does have a glass door at it right now so the changes would be made for all three of those to be the exact same doors same look same everything of of the new ones that we replace with white I'm open-minded to other colors but as the the trim of the building and and the awning underneath it that's all white I my personal opinion is that a white commercial grade door would would fit in the the best there okay so all of that makes sense I think it's just a matter of maintenance and just as a recommendation given that I'm sure there's going to be lots of people going in and out which is a great thing for you just to try to try to do your best to keep those updated I don't know if it's just a matter of paint painting it every so often but I can imagine that those will get a lot of wear and tear yeah those three doors are exit only so the design of this the layout of the floor plan is that the side door becomes the main entrance that side door that little one that's in the bottom left corner there under the other side that 44 inch door that is an entrance only point that is where our queuing will start for our line and then those three front doors are exit only again this is a building that will be open only Thursdays Fridays and Saturdays and we open at 8 p.m. and close at one and those three front doors once somebody exits that building if they want to get back in they have to go back to the front door to get in there's no entrance point at any one of those three doors so that'll help a lot in what you're referring to and I do agree with you they will take a lot of wear and tear if we did it the other way around a location where you have to the right the infilling of the of the glass window to the right of the entrance it could be interesting to I don't know why that's there that's not supposed to be like that that's an error in the in the print I actually never picked up on it until you just mentioned mentioned that I was actually looking at when you said that that's a window that is a glass window it's part of the replacement Amherst glass is doing the windows for us so that is actually going to be a normal window tinted just like to match everything else great if it wasn't I was gonna say it could be interesting idea to do some kind of art installation or mural art project there but sounds like that's not the direction it's headed I see that there's some hands up but I do I give it what you just said chat I I do respect that you since you don't want to have a lot of signage additional bits and pieces of signage and neons and things like that but I wonder if there is a way to perhaps put the hours on the door some small signage that indicates that this is the front door oh yeah I agree I suppose the queue will indicate it but for those who aren't in the know yep things like that I agree that that is something we would certainly the door itself will certainly have the hours on it um but yes I I understand where you're coming from with that um okay I'm looking for who has not weighed in yet on this Tom did you have an ad Catherine do you have something to add as well I was just going to add that I think that the way the building is oriented and how it's you know kind of wants to feature that main entrance on the long side I do think that some kind of wayfinding would be helpful and and it could be a little arrow you know entrance that way kind of thing we've talked to a few different people about where they might have confusing architectural entrances um some kind of special light that's there a blue light some other thing that makes it cool and special um but I think that um you do want to try to find a way to direct people to that and I think you're right that they'll eventually find that and that's where the queue will be and it'll make a lot of sense but um you have this whole other side of the building where people might keep trying to get in and it might just be helpful to put it all some kind of signage like main entrance around side or something like that just to I don't think I don't think you need it I think it would be polite to do it to some people who might be confused um just my thoughts on it yeah delivery for whatever you know Catherine yeah I just uh I drive I've driven by the spoke uh numerous times at night and I see the lines which then prompted me to think is there an overhang um around that building so when people are waiting outside in the slush and the rain which they will I sorry earlier in the night yeah is there any way they can sort of have a shelter protection overhead um I don't think that building looks that way but there is uh so the entire front of that building is uh so we have a 72 inch um walkway there with wise of the walkway and oh good yeah the entire width of it is covered by a cover yeah which is great because I would think small that's a great benefit that we have in that building that you know was sort of built into the original design and thank god because I it's a tremendous benefit yes yes great okay I'm glad I asked you know and it's a private walkway too and it's really it's actually it's a little deceiving in this picture because it is raised up by if any of you're familiar with the building it is it is raised up above the there's parking right in front of it and it's raised up above the parking about eight inches and at some points of it it has an additional uh you know um retaining wall aspect if I can call that uh down it as well so it's not the the other benefit of the design of it is it's not really conducive to anybody just walking up to it at any point it actually the way it's designed it really does push everybody to that right side and um as you guys probably know what's going on behind and around it is the new development of that building and so to the right of my building is going to be a vacant lot that they're going to fence in and and our walkway is going to be right there and both my sidewalks come down on an egress at that point to to zero so that it's fully handicap accessible and so the flow of that area if you saw this actually standing in front of it does push everything to the right to that entrance point naturally great um Chad my question is uh what is the color of the clabbered behind the the live it's white it's white okay it's the same white that the trim that's on the trim uh that Joel and Jesus for all their stuff it's the same all there I wish I had a picture of it for you guys but it is it matches everything around the trim we're not going to change that it would you know when we we are going to freshen up the paint on those on those parts of the trim pieces and that'll be done as well to match everything so all right so um DRB members I think that only there were a lot of questions but the only suggestion is um that Chad might want to consider actually adding some small amount of signage to signal wayfinding and front entrance but beyond that we had no suggestions and we just need a motion to approve I move that we approve the this uh petition with the thought that wayfinding signs might be considered second Tom second is there any discussion um your hand is still up is that a okay Catherine did you have your hand no I'm in that case all those who are in favor of approving the spoke uh application please say I hi hi hi great that's everyone thank you Chad thank you guys good luck good luck thank you have a great evening all right moving right along I think that next on the agenda is to approve meeting minutes we have Maureen has left us with minutes from December 12th and I can share those did anybody have a chance to read them does anybody have comments I wasn't present for that meeting so I'm recusing myself from response um I have I do have a comment um and that is that we we discussed Catherine um we we had a conversation um oh this is the wrong document sorry where are the minutes there they're here you know ha easy minutes we had a conversation with the gentleman from well that's still the agenda sorry that's my homework I can't find the minutes let me stop sharing we had a conversation with the gentleman from the um restaurant behind the alley oriental flavor no no no oh the chicken one yes and uh in Maureen's notes she she rightly notes that he he wasn't present but then he did come and the conversation shifted and that's not reflected in the minutes and so I think that I'm not ready to approve them um as as written you would like to have us make that change and then resubmit them yes I I feel that that's important because we did have an actual conversation with him and right now it says he wasn't there to be a part of that was he not there at the start I mean I because I remember I remember that he wasn't there at a certain moment and then we started talking about it and then he came over is that correct exactly yeah yeah yeah we don't have there's no time noted for when that happened but he definitely was there for the second half to receive our comments yes um and does anybody else have any other suggestions at its to make at this point then we could table it and come back to this one if it's okay after in your hand is up and now it's not okay great so if it's okay we'll just set this one aside and and oh now stop again we'll come back to meeting minutes and approve them at the following meeting yeah that sounds great great um next on the agenda is a general public comment period is anybody present from the from the public in the audience Jennifer do you see any additional folks in the audience no okay no I don't okay well moving right along um I think unless anybody has any other agenda items I'd like to close with the discussion about establishing a monthly date and time we could always dispense with if there's nobody in the queue but then we'd have something on the calendar and I just I know the doodling and the sorting out it takes a lot of staff time and I think that if we could streamline our meeting planning that would be fantastic um so a first question is does this time work for everybody and could we establish a a week of the month where we would all just hold this yeah it's a good suggestion we talked about it before but we could never get ourselves to think about it yeah let's do it okay okay so where are we this is the last week of the month yeah and that would give you know four weeks for things to queue up I suppose if somebody had an emergent situation that we could call the meeting if necessary but it also might be nice to signal to applicants that we need once a month right yes plan on that yeah yeah and I think that's why we didn't settle on something because there was always this emergency thing coming up and yeah we were just more organized about that you know they know to come yeah so last Monday of the month at 5 p.m. does that work for everybody yeah yes yeah I mean I would prefer not the same week as planning board it just so planning and Chris planning board second and fourth first and third first and third oh it's February is that why we're in the no this is the planning board is first and third um they're going to be tomorrow yeah yeah the fourth week would be fine okay all right sorry yeah I do this week so I'm confused with respect for the number of meetings that you have to attend um and um Chris and Jennifer does that work on the staff side of things to to meet on Monday evenings generally speaking yes every once in a while I need to go to the town council and they meet on Monday Mondays but I'm hoping that we'll get another staff person who will be able to um help you and that therefore I will be able to go to the town council meetings which I think I'd rather be here as for me again I don't know how long I'll be you know filling this role but Mondays are fine in general they're actually the best and it's also really great to know that because I'm the person who deals with the applicants you know at their first um interaction so it's going to be great to be able to tell people when the meeting is instead of having and it's also going to be great for me because we end up sort of losing track of applications because they're just sort of floating around in space and um we already have a couple that we would be able to now schedule and tell the people and I think that would put them at ease as well great so they don't have to wonder you know how long do I have to wait you know why am I not important enough to have a meeting for I have to wait till four other people apply or you know yeah so that would also be really great so thank you for agreeing to that I am noticing that there are some months where we there are five Mondays so do we want to do it the last Monday of the month or every fourth Monday wait question yeah may fourth Monday so that we can have the backup okay okay good and I'm realizing why I'm confused because the fourth Monday today on Wednesdays are the first so Wednesday the first of March so my brain was yeah weird month it's also somehow the longest month even though it's the shortest so so sorry did you decide that it was the fourth Monday or the last Monday the fourth okay perfect the fourth okay fourth Monday of the month at five p.m marvelous lovely that's helpful hi um I think that's it I think it would also be helpful to have depending on how that this works with staffing but to be able to have um shorter meetings I mean not to say that this was too long at all just that like not having to wait for four other applicants or whatever number is the magic number I in some ways make the meetings more efficient it does yes okay great you're open yes emotion to adjourn so move so move okay all right in a month thank you Erica I thank you thank you take care everybody bye thank you Chris thank you doctor